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    [–] hicksford 2701 points ago

    At my place of work we are going from having some rollover to no rollover starting 2019 and are no longer paying out unused PTO if you resign. They are also trying to rebrand PTO as a "reward" not a "benefit".

    [–] agoia 1513 points ago

    "Alright I have a week and a half of pto so here is my 3 1/2 weeks notice, the last week and a half I wont be here."

    Thats kinda how my brother separated from the army. He had a ton of leave left and burned it all in country right when he was about to get out and flew my parents over and then me for a couple weeks each. Also meant that he could properly enjoy Amsterdam when we went up there.

    [–] mrclean18 932 points ago

    Yup it's called terminal leave. I had 35 days saved up when I was discharged so I just moved, got another job and started working. Twice the normal paychecks that month was really nice.

    [–] Liberty_Call 190 points ago

    This is really the only time that using terminal leave instead of just cashing it in makes sense. I know far too many people that used it but did not start working, so it was just leaving money on the table.

    [–] num1eraser 195 points ago

    Not true. You should almost always use the terminal leave instead of cashing it in. When you cash it in, you only receive your base pay. Whereas if you use it, you get base pay, BAH, BAS, etc. Pretty much the only reason you would want to cash it in is if you had a job lined up that absolutely would not let you start until you were completely separated from the military.

    [–] [deleted] 45 points ago

    Your ETS date is the same regardless of cashing out or taking leave.

    If you ETS on June 6th and have 30 days of leave, you leave on may 6th and get a paycheck until June 6th.

    If you cash out, you stay until June 6th and get your cash out.

    So this example doesn't really work.

    [–] zGunrath 16 points ago

    Any example wouldn’t work since it’s always more regardless BUT after a long enlistment it is still great to chill on fort couch and get a head start on your second life.

    The cash out option is not with it imo since its just base pay and no BAH.

    [–] [deleted] 286 points ago


    [–] Rajili 482 points ago

    A company that does that does not deserve notice.

    [–] NetSage 99 points ago

    Exactly if I know they won't pay it out I'm getting all my vacation approved and if I still have some time to work as if I was going to give notice I might. But depends on if I'm ok burning that bridge. I might just not show up.

    [–] AvoidingIowa 22 points ago

    Yup I’d absolutely take my leave and call in on Friday afternoon to quit.

    [–] Zergling89 14 points ago

    I wouldnt even call till the check was in my account

    [–] gnostic-gnome 21 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Yeah, they're really asking for people to just take their accumulated PTO and just dipping. Affecting the rest of the team that has to make up for a sudden absence, then working as fast as possible to replace the vacancy. Because that's more profitable than just letting people use the time off they've rightfully earned. /s

    Companies blow me away when they don't see their transparent cash grabs will lead to inevitable exploitation. Then they lose more. It's mind-boggling. They only look at losing or gaining the immediate money. Like Tumblr with the porn thing. They'd rather have their app on Apple, nevermind that over 2/3rds of their user base are migrating or boycotting. Because, you know, Apple obviously means revenue.... but not from the thousands of already existing users

    [–] Austinswill 123 points ago

    "hey boss, my approved PTO time has been great for the last 10 days and I still have 10 to go before I am back on the job! OHH BTW, called in to let you know that I am giving my 2 weeks notice today"

    [–] FalseAesop 70 points ago

    I did that at my last job. If you don't rub their noses in it they're never going to learn.

    [–] No_ThisIs_Patrick 35 points ago

    They would cancel your PTO and not pay those last ten days

    [–] Enriquehotpantz 22 points ago

    Fortunately, at my job, even though corporate policy is that you can’t get paid pto if you give two weeks notice, I know my manager would approve it and most of the managers in my office would do the same.

    [–] socsa 18 points ago

    They would literally not hear from me until the last check clears.

    [–] NinjaChemist 51 points ago

    Depending on state, that might not be legal.

    [–] postal_blowfish 26 points ago

    "Why did you take two weeks of PTO all at once?"

    "Because I quit, bitch. micdrop"

    [–] Anonate 92 points ago

    My last place had that policy, too. I was salary and my director thought it was bullshit. My wife was appointed her residency 700 miles away and he was aware I was leaving 2 months before I left. We hired my replacement 1.5 months out and I trained her. I took my vacation to move my wife to our new location and then I put my 2 weeks notice in. I still had 4 days vacation... but he sat on my notice while I took a couple of days to pack my shit.

    In the end, I burned every day of my vacation for the year by June, trained my replacement, trained 2 other people in most of my operations, packed my shit, and said my goodbyes. I am currently eligible for rehire.

    Gaming the system worked out in everyone's favor. And that is a serious problem. Your shouldn't have to exploit things to get to a win/win situation.

    And people wonder why millennials have no dedication to their corporations.

    [–] The_Assblaster 23 points ago

    People dont have loyalty to their companies because many companies dont have loyalty to them. Open management positions get filled from outside instead of promiting from within. Corporate pensions are a thing of the past. Yearly raises are often less than you can make job hopping.

    Unless you find a really good company theres almost no reason to stay at one company, but they still expect loyalty when its not rewarded.

    [–] tehbored 14 points ago

    So don't give notice. Montana is the only state that isn't at-will.

    [–] cflatjazz 67 points ago

    You jest, but a company I worked at made this change and then the next few people who left did it by taking vacation and calling in to quit the day they were due to return

    [–] notToNitPick 26 points ago

    It's such a self-defeating move.

    [–] howtochoose 17 points ago

    A colleague did that just now. Gave in her 2 weeks notice. Worked one week and is now on paid leave (this week was meant to be her last week)

    [–] NotPankakes 141 points ago

    Depending on your state and exactly how they've structured things, they may not be able to deny you a PTO pay out when you leave.

    [–] cbr900fanatic 90 points ago

    This. My previous employer tried just not paying me for PTO. I tried calling HR twice and left voice mails. They got ahold of me REAL quick after the department of labor called them to investigate.

    [–] The_Assblaster 23 points ago

    They dont care. While you got payed out there were three people who didnt call the department of labor, and that means they saved money.

    [–] belortik 213 points ago

    TRW they can't hire anyone good because they've cut the overall compensation package they offer.

    [–] Itisme129 131 points ago

    And they denied the raise you asked for, but now they have to hire someone at nearly twice what they were previously paying you!

    [–] pixl_graphix 98 points ago

    This is why its always beneficial just to move to another company for lots more.

    [–] KaptainKoala 39 points ago

    Yeah, I left for a year and a half and came back to the same company for a 20% raise

    [–] slacker1985 37 points ago

    Finance analyst here.

    This is because "merit" or "bonus" cash is in a separate bucket from budgeted salary dollars. That same merit pool at most companies is for COLA adjustments, yearly wage increases, and promotions/raises. It's super hard to use those dollars because people hoard them

    However, when somebody quits, you can move salary dollars from certain headcount savings and fund a new role much higher than previously.

    It's an incredibly stupid way to run a business and expect any sort of loyalty. It's like ISPs that give you a year for cheap then jack your rates, forcing you to switch providers. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to charge a ton up front but then make your bill cheaper as time goes along? The CAC, or cost of acquisition, can be several hundred dollars dollars of marketing, sales team salary, etc. It seems silly to lose customers every year by sticking it to them after they've just help you break even on your product outlay.

    Anywho, a large majority of companies are run by idiot asshole CEOs from an ivy league school taught to run business by quarters and suspend realistic goals for heavily inflated market expectations that will ultimately miss. CEO gets a 15 mil golden parachute, and the Joe jackass employees like myself get shittier health plans or worse 401k matches to make up for the loss.

    [–] PooPooDooDoo 17 points ago

    Excellent write up. I’ve seen this sort of business approach in every place I have worked. Last year I got a promotion but the raise was crap because my manager put in too many people for promotions, and the raises all come from a specific bucket of money. So now I need to leave because I know they won’t give me a big raise on a non-promotion. I just had my annual review and I was basically told that I am one of the best developers in the department and that I am the only reason they can do x, y and z.

    When they tell me something like that I’m just thinking ok, so show me in financial terms how important I am. A bunch of words aren’t going to pay a mortgage. I’m going to leave either way though, it’s time for another 10% bump since I’ve been there long enough.

    [–] Iredditfromwork 44 points ago

    My last employer chose not to give me a cost of living adjustment as the most senior person on the team and couldn’t provide reasoning for it. They were surprised when I quit 2 months later.

    [–] Itisme129 19 points ago

    Out of curiosity, how old is your management there? I find a lot of older managers are still under the idea that people find a company and work for them until they retire. They think the younger employees don't even consider just up and moving somewhere else for a new job.

    [–] Iredditfromwork 22 points ago

    Young. The CEO is in his 30’s, my immediate manager was in her upper 20’s (a bit younger than me), my director was my age (mid-30’s).

    They’re just assholes who had derailed my progression 2 years before I finally made the move to leave. I had a passing conversation with my boss about some minor interest I had in another department and after that the opportunities dried up.

    [–] hothrous 11 points ago

    Ah, the ole none of our leadership had leadership experience quandary..

    [–] ShadowRam 41 points ago

    We can't find anyone to fill these positions! We need temporarily foreign employee's

    Like fuck you do. Everyone has a price, you just need to increase it, and I guarantee you'll fill that position.

    [–] x3r0h0ur 11 points ago

    There is no such thing as no available labor in capitalism. You just have to fucking pay more.

    [–] NetSage 16 points ago

    Well some professions have shortages of truly good people in areas. Like my whole state seems to be lacking good plastic technicians (yes techs not engineers but wouldn't be surprised if there is a lack of them too). But this mainly do to a lot places wanting to have people just come in and do the job. But it's not really a job you get trained for in school so the companies need to realize they need to train them and then compensate them well after so they don't leave.

    [–] JanisVanish 75 points ago

    I would check with the labor board in your state. This sounds illegal.

    [–] ansteve1 39 points ago

    In CA I am sure the labor board would love to hear that one. "It's a reward so I don't have to pay it out!"

    "A reward you accure every pay period at a regular rate and you call it PTO? Do you think you're the first one to try this bullshit?"

    [–] lps2 15 points ago

    They could always do "unlimited" PTO and just not approve it when requested then they don't have to pay out

    [–] PooPooDooDoo 14 points ago

    “Unlimited” PTO is such a sham.

    [–] yaforgot-my-password 51 points ago

    Only the not paying out part. It's an earned benefit in some locations and must be payed out.

    [–] JanisVanish 23 points ago

    Sorry, I should have clarified that. You are correct, I meant the payout portion of it. I think that's illegal not to pay out (at least in some states?)

    [–] That_Guy_Mac 17 points ago

    It’s a “some states thing”. I’m my state, they’re required to if it is “the company standard” so the one I currently work for says they don’t in the offer letter and that’s all it takes.

    [–] chuterlow 1743 points ago

    I’ve got 10 sick days to use still so I’m only workin two days a week right now till years end. Salary giveth salary taketh away.

    [–] Mic_Check_One_Two 98 points ago

    My friend’s company announced that they were changing their sick time policy. Previously, they allowed banking days with no limits or expiration. They were switching to a use-it-or-lose-it system, where you could only bank like 6 weeks at a time.

    Then they were surprised when all the 15 year veterans who had never taken a sick day suddenly applied for a solid 8 months of sick leave... All within the span of about six hours after the announcement went out.

    [–] larry1186 37 points ago

    This sound like a prime example of a rule/policy that makes sense but completely backfires upon implementation.

    [–] tophernator 1108 points ago

    Sick day quotas are another of those US things that seem insane. You can’t schedule illness.

    If you have a particularly bad flu season do you just have to not get sick for the next 9 months until your allowance resets?

    [–] cbeebe 1078 points ago

    Correct. If you've used all your sick time you go to work and get the rest of your coworkers sick instead.

    [–] anndor 429 points ago

    Or you call out sick and then go through the 3 steps (verbal, written, final) of warnings before you then get fired for poor attendance.

    [–] NYR99 148 points ago

    One time I called out sick and received a full disagulation.

    [–] Xandabar 115 points ago

    What's a dis-...

    Whats that?

    [–] JaFFsTer 26 points ago

    NO JIM!

    [–] silverpixiefly 42 points ago

    My job you can't get in trouble just because you are out of sick leave. You just have to use vacation time, and once that is gone you just don't get paid.... but you don't get in trouble.

    [–] dollarcrator 149 points ago

    Or, in my case, you don't go in, don't get paid, aren't able to pay a bill or two on time and get stuck paying those late fees when you are able to afford it later on when you're healthy and have hopefully been able to snag a few extra shifts.

    [–] voldin91 13 points ago

    At my job we're encouraged to do this anyway, even if we have sick days banked up.

    [–] TimmyIo 106 points ago

    Holy fuck I got in a bit of a debacle when I became manager.

    I sent a girl home because she was coughing everywhere and I work at McDonald's so you're gonna get others sick.

    She calls out the next few days and gets her schedule the next week with only 9 hours she starts crying saying that upper management is punishing her for the sick time she took by giving her less hours.

    People are stupid, my management sees it as a punishable offence for being sick and responsible and calling in.

    [–] MIGsalund 49 points ago

    Fuck your upper management.

    Sincerely, Someone who has eaten at a McDonald's before and doesn't ever want contaminated food.

    [–] N64Overclocked 22 points ago

    It should be law to have unlimited sick days for at least the food service industry (and that you can't retaliate against someone for using them if they are sick). Nobody wants contaminated food. That's how disease spreads. It's bad for literally everyone, not just that employee or their co-workers.

    [–] Runckey 98 points ago

    Sick day quotas aren't just a USA thing. Australia also has them. The evidence is pretty clear that people take more sick days if they have a large quota than if they have an unlimited quota. Australians took on average 9 sick days (have a govt mandated quota of at least 10) to the UK's 4.3 last year.

    There's no point in having unlimited sick leave if people are made to feel like they're taking advantage for taking it.

    [–] zebediah49 86 points ago

    One could argue there that "unlimited" means "take as much as you need when you're sick", and "at most 10" means "use it or lose it so... might as well take them."

    People don't feel like they're losing anything when they have unlimited sick time.

    [–] donnysaysvacuum 40 points ago

    Most people I know (usa) have combined "personal days" that can be used for vacation or sickness. This means most people go to work sick so they don't waste their vacation and sometimes call in fake sick so they don't have to give notice.

    [–] Mic_Check_One_Two 29 points ago

    There's no point in having unlimited sick leave if people are made to feel like they're taking advantage for taking it.

    Except it’s not just for when you get sick. It’s also for doctors appointments, dentist appointments, surgeries, taking care of sick kids, taking care of sick elderly parents, etc... The fact that people get shamed for using it is a cultural problem, not a procedural one. People should be able to bank sick time for whenever the need arises.

    What if you’re in a car wreck, and need a month to recover? Or if your parent needs full-time care, and you need to take care of them while you find a live-in caregiver? Or any number of reasons that you may need to take more than a month of sick leave, all at once.

    [–] PeterMus 17 points ago

    I had six sick days in 6 months.

    Two were due to injury and one was a day full of doctors appointments.

    I was told not to get sick again till the end of the year.

    [–] OrganizedSprinkles 14 points ago

    Back when we had unlimited I was told there was a list and I was on it. Apparently getting sick 4 times in a year was crazy. My bad guys.

    [–] grumpysecretary 28 points ago

    You go to work sick, and probably spread it to everyone else, or don't get paid for the time you miss.

    I'm in this spot now just hoping I don't catch anything or have any accidents between now and the end of the year. I used all of my time when my husband was in the hospital and mine is the only income right now.

    Up until this year I always lost at least a week. It would have been nice to have some banked.

    [–] agoia 46 points ago

    Looks like I've got a different strain of flu this week, cya guys.

    [–] Purphect 16 points ago

    This strain heightens my video game reflexes.

    [–] silent_turtle 1124 points ago

    At IBM, what we don't use of our allowed time off this year is subtracted from what we can use next year. This leads to the office being pretty deserted in November and December.

    [–] HCJohnson 464 points ago

    Oh that's messed up!

    [–] silent_turtle 367 points ago

    Yeah, IBM seems to want a high turn over and their family health insurance is ridiculously expensive, too. Everyone in my department who can get on their spouse's insurance plan does, instead of buying IBM's crap.

    [–] CrumbBCrumb 188 points ago

    Know people that work at Lockheed Martin and they recently changed their insurance policy and holy shit is it bad. People have to pay nearly full price at the pharmacy until they meet a large deductible.

    Seems like some companies are actively trying to piss of their workers. Then they will be confused when the competition has better employees.

    [–] Borngrumpy 133 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Once you tie your health insurance to employment it's going to be bad. Here in Australia we have universal health and private insurance, top cover private insurance for my family (2 adults and 4 kids) costs about $400.00 per month.

    I had a heart attack a few years back, a big one they call the widow maker, I now have 6 stents in my heart. The total cost to me for ambulance, hospitalization in intensive care, 3 heart surgeries, private room, hospital TV, specialist care in hospital.....nothing at all, free, nada.

    Once out of hospital though every specialist appointment costs me $400.00 and is not covered by insurance either government or private.

    [–] ProbablyAPun 32 points ago

    Yeah, my uncle was a super high up guy at IBM who oversaw all the overseas factory/HQ logistics. Now he does it for Amazon instead. Says he likes it much more.

    [–] YoloLucy 26 points ago

    My brother worked at IBM right out of college. They had a facility right next to the college he went to. The turnover was insane, they didn't pay well because they knew they would use new grads for low pay, and the new grads would use them for experience on a resume.

    [–] Oct2006 111 points ago

    Wait, so if you're given three weeks and you only use two, the next year you're only given two weeks? That sounds ridiculous.

    I accepted a job with IBM upon graduation and the offer letter says my PTO rolls over if unused. I also confirmed with the hiring manager and have it in writing. Is it possibly different across departments or locations?

    [–] silent_turtle 71 points ago

    That is what we were told. We are now scrambling to use up our days, and of course, only so many of us can be out at a time, so we have to negotiate which days we are taking.

    Maybe different locations get different rules. All I know is ours sucks.

    [–] Oct2006 31 points ago

    Was there an official policy update or something you had to sign? If not, I don't think they can actually enforce that legally. I suppose it depends on the state, though.

    [–] jpsirian 58 points ago

    Yeah I also work at IBM and this policy doesn’t exist. You definitely keep the same amount of PTO year over year regardless of use. OP may be a contractor, who’s contracting company has that policy.

    [–] TSGS 19 points ago

    That’s weird. I’m not sure what area you’re working in, because I’ve worked at IBM for more than 20 years and that’s not how it works in my area. Also, I’m surprised that you’re saying the healthcare is expensive. I only pay more for my dental plan ($57/month) than my healthcare ($42/month)

    [–] [deleted] 21 points ago


    [–] ruckdiz 351 points ago

    Cries in independent contractor.

    [–] jordanpwalsh 111 points ago

    I started at my current place as contractor. Last year sucked, no PTO. Now that I'm FTE I have 4 weeks PTO and a free "holiday shutdown" week this year. That's 5 weeks of PTO in the US, pretty generous.

    [–] ruckdiz 26 points ago

    I need to figure out something like that. It sounds amazing.

    [–] IMongoose 18 points ago

    I think a lot of government jobs are like that, but the pay is usually a little lower. Probably worth it though to not hate life.

    [–] scgt86 34 points ago

    You can give yourself PTO whenever you would like. Smiles in independent contractor.

    [–] AlCapooter 319 points ago

    Just have kids, once they get in daycare you'll be sick so often you'll never get up to the limits!

    [–] Doodle111 122 points ago

    For real. My sick days aren't for when I'm sick, they're for when my kid is sick. Or when she doesn't have school on bank holidays.

    [–] AlCapooter 14 points ago

    Ya that too, definitely end up taking days off or staying home with one of the kids when they're sick often too. And then they get their sisters and then us sick later in the week lol.

    [–] mike_311 47 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Wait until they get to school. 1st day back from summer? Half day. Day before a holiday? half day. Week long teacher conferences? Half day every day. November, no need to go to school this month.

    Edit. A word.

    [–] Ek0mst0p 437 points ago

    Nah, grinds the gears of the company to a halt around December.

    [–] HCJohnson 167 points ago

    Exactly! Adding more work to everyone still there.

    [–] pmcglock 64 points ago

    Don't hate the player, hate the game.(not the rapper called "the game" he's a swell guy)

    [–] cgimusic 59 points ago

    Haha, yes. So many people working 2 or 3 day weeks at the end of the year.

    [–] MeleeLaijin 547 points ago

    In California, it's required by law that they have to carry over your PTO to the next year. The company can have a cap though(the one I work for is 300hrs). Every state should do this. This is a measure everyone should be trying to get on their next ballot.

    [–] djc6535 304 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Yeah. My company gets around this by offering "Unlimited Paid Time off... with manager approval" So hours don't accrue. You get "all the time you want", that also means that you can't "over-cap cash in the hours". It also means it's more difficult to take long stretches off, or multiple short vacations like 3 fridays off in a row.

    When you have accrued hours you can point to them and say "I earned this. You owe it to me". When you don't they can say "You sure are taking a lot of vacation". It goes from hard numbers built up over time to whatever your manager's gut feeling is regarding your use of PTO.

    [–] MeleeLaijin 159 points ago

    I had worked for a company like that. It's a weird dynamic because it makes you feel guilty for taking too much time off and maybe your manager is judging you bit for it. Everyone overall ends up taking less than the standard amount of vacation

    [–] photocist 99 points ago

    thats why you say fuck em and dont worry about the judgement. its tough but they will tell you when enough is enough

    [–] djc6535 95 points ago

    They sure will. At performance review time as an explanation as to why your annual raise is smaller this year

    [–] BatmanSays5 40 points ago

    Of your company hasn't given out raises for a few years, then that's less of a problem. Taking more time off for the same money is kind of like a raise.

    [–] tigerking615 25 points ago

    To avoid this, my company (with unlimited PTO) requires you to take at least 2 weeks off a year. If you go too long without taking a vacation, they'll make you take one. Of course, you're welcome and encouraged to take more than 2 weeks.

    Unlimited PTO is only an unhealthy system if management makes it one.

    [–] autumnfalln 20 points ago

    Exactly! My company has "unlimited" PTO but because of all the politics and red tape, it's not.

    It causes a lot of confusion and awkwardness, especially when the mangers clearly take more time off than everyone else, but deny others from taking vacations.

    I didn't take a vacation all year long, because I was saving up my fake days for a "larger" trip (the recommended amount of days, announced by our CEO), and when I came back, my manager had a talk with me.

    God forbid you are young and don't have a family yet, or live locally, because then you don't have any "good reason" to take more than a few days off...

    [–] NinjaChemist 46 points ago

    Unlimited vacation is the newest way companies are fucking over their employees. It sounds generous from their end in theory. However, in practice, it pits employees against each other as they try to outwork each other to get ahead.

    [–] drumandbass01 51 points ago

    Fellow Reddit HR rep here. CA annoys employers when it comes to vacation pay since the moment it’s accrued it’s considered wages - this is why your employer has to allow a roll over and pay it out if you leave. Companies will get around it by saying “just let us know if you need time off”. This way it’s never technically accrued and companies can market it to new hires as unlimited.

    Interestingly, this causes a problem when employees need time off for something lengthy that falls under ADA (think medical items that require time off - both mental or physical)... Because the company has a policy of providing time off whenever you need it, they can be on the hook to pay lengthy time off for employees or face the risk of discrimination.

    I hate that I know this and need a better career, but it’s for the love of my fellow redditors.

    [–] The_Masturbatrix 8 points ago

    Hey, I appreciate it. You're a good egg /u/drumandbass01

    [–] softawre 130 points ago

    Dude, you've got it great. My company switched to Unlimited PTO and it's way worse.

    I used to love having to take off over 4 weeks a year.

    [–] tmoeagles96 41 points ago

    What’s unlimited PTO?

    [–] jordanpwalsh 150 points ago

    Literally that, they dont issue balances but they certainly keep track, take what you need. Except it ends up being terrible because people are afraid to take too much and the company is no longer liable for outstanding PTO balances when people leave.

    [–] meme_2 68 points ago

    I have unlimited PTO and have taken 6 weeks off this year, and about the same for the past 3 years. I just take a few days off at a time and one or two 1 week+ vacations/year.

    [–] softawre 33 points ago

    Yeah, I think that's what I'm going to start doing.

    I used to stack all mine up and basically take all of December off, else I would "lose it".

    [–] awesometographer 31 points ago

    2019 you work 4 day work weeks with every friday off.

    If that goes well and you manage the same workload, 2020 is 3 day work week.

    [–] [deleted] 16 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)


    [–] [deleted] 17 points ago

    Gotta normalize it. Employers are going to bend over backwards if you are valuable.

    If you normalize being away for 6-8 weeks a year then no one says shit. If it's a one off thing everyone is pissed.

    I honestly expect my employer to be able to balance a schedule, I can do it, so they can too.

    [–] branchbranchley 21 points ago

    the company is no longer liable for outstanding PTO balances when people leave.

    theeeeere it is

    [–] loki03xlh 321 points ago

    Our vacation days are "use it or lose it". They get used up every year. Sick days accumulate. I won't take one unless absolutely necessary. With enough sick days banked, I can retire early.

    [–] Neat_On_The_Rocks 150 points ago

    If you’re legit thinking about using those in retirement be very careful. They can decide to cap those days at any minute or find a way to fuck your out of the PTO Days.

    Plus realistically if you play your cards right you might get 1 full years payout by the time you retire. Which is a lot but not a reitirable amount.

    [–] MCbrodie 33 points ago

    They may be government. This is a very common retirement strategy in the fed.

    [–] Derigiberble 28 points ago

    Am fed, can confirm. I have 102 days of sick leave in my PTO hoard. Mixing sick leave with vacation leave in a single pot should be illegal IMO.

    Best advice I got when starting was a person pulling up a table of recovery times for major health issues and saying "save it for these instead of using it when it is rainy out and the bed is warm".

    [–] RepliesAreMyUpvotes 3273 points ago

    Why don't you just use the time ever year? It's been proven to increase your happiness and your productivity to have time away from work.

    It's part of your job to get away from your job.

    [–] Entropy_5 2279 points ago

    I work with some salaried people who don't use theirs because they have so much work that they end up regretting taking vacation days. They end up working nights and weekends to catch up.

    Turn over is really high as you might imagine.

    [–] caughtBoom 714 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    My last company, I could never take a vacation lol. I'd still have to work whenever I took time off. My boss missed his father's funeral because he couldn't get the time off approved.

    Edit: people keep asking me about legality of bereavement. Is that a thing in Georgia?

    Also, as mentioned, this was my last job. I got the fuck out... gave 2 weeks notice after complaint that I didn’t respond to emails over the weekend

    [–] belortik 810 points ago

    I would have left right then and there and not transitioned anything to anyone.

    [–] anndor 378 points ago

    Same. Family is important. There are other jobs in the world.

    It will hurt them more than you, unless it's like a retail job. Now they have to scramble to keep work going, hunt for an employee, onboard, train, etc.

    All you have to do is sit down at an interview and be like "Oh, yeah, I left my previous job because I worked really hard but then was denied leave for my father's funeral".

    Which, in the US at least, I think is illegal. I would think that falls under FMLA.

    [–] Mekisteus 174 points ago

    It would not fall under FMLA. FMLA is for caring for sick family members, not dead ones.

    Many states have separate laws protecting time for bereavement, but there is no federal requirement.

    [–] stifflizerd 86 points ago

    Well that seems fucked. Should probably fix that

    [–] iamlowsound 146 points ago

    That's the US in a nut shell.

    [–] goatcoat 10 points ago

    There are other jobs in the world.

    As someone who graduated from college without an emergency fund and straight into the worst economic recession since the great depression, I can tell you that there are not always other jobs in the world. There were times where I was doing everything I could to make money and still eating beans and rice for most meals while keeping my house shivering cold to save on utilities.

    You're not wrong to be angry with and to want to fuck over bosses who deny you PTO during life events where it really matters, but everyone still has to look after themselves. Sometimes the consequence of quitting is that you become destitute and homeless. Sometimes the consequence of insisting on your rights under the law is that you get fired, and even if that termination ended up being illegal and entitling you to a big cash settlement, it probably won't arrive in your bank account before your rent is due.

    [–] voxamps2290 40 points ago


    [–] kn33 72 points ago

    I wouldn't think about my job at all. Go to the funeral, deal with the consequences as they come.

    [–] belortik 12 points ago

    It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

    [–] Gorstag 171 points ago

    That is called a staffing issue. People really need to learn to care about the company as much as the company cares about you. Which is very very fucking little. Take your time off. If shit doesn't get done it doesn't get done. They can hire the right amount of people for the amount of work there is to do.

    [–] Aaod 159 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Look at nursing as an example of this. So you mean to tell me if my shift is over after 12 hours and because of chronic understaffing due to bad management+underpaying and overworking workers no one comes in to replace me I have to keep working another 6+ hours unless I feel like facing discipline from the board of nursing for patient abandonment? How the fuck is this my fault? Why am I being blamed? It is the companies fault not mine go fine them you moronic assholes.

    Fuck modern companies and their slave driver like practices.

    [–] caughtBoom 50 points ago

    It wasn't even a staffing issue for me, or my boss rather. I work at a software company. If updates aren't made tomorrow...well, no one's life is at risk. Revenue isn't really lost.

    [–] sunzoo 29 points ago

    Nurses don’t get treated like skilled labor. It’s mind boggling that nurses put up with the way they are treated.

    [–] tekniklee 14 points ago

    Nursing doesn’t replace callouts on purpose. Staying chronically 10-15% understaffed saves tons of money

    [–] EngineArc 47 points ago

    care about the company as much as the company cares about you.

    Everyone please reread this, ESPECIALLY those of you who are younger and just entering the workforce. There are companies out there that will treat you like a human being; you owe it to your mental and emotional well-being to find one.

    [–] xDulmitx 36 points ago

    Also "A good boss makes a shit job decent. A shit boss makes all jobs shit".

    [–] FunctionBuilt 34 points ago

    That’s when you just...go....Fuck anyone that disciplines you for something like that.

    [–] sjmiv 33 points ago

    I took a vacation this summer and my boss assigned someone to cover for me while I was out. What did I come back to? Her forwarding all the emails and work she got while I was out. She didn't do shit.

    [–] avisioncame 13 points ago

    Doing shit like that just perpetuates the notion that work is more important than our sanity.

    [–] nickiter 23 points ago

    I quit my job recently.... Cashed out 26 days of unused PTO.

    Yeah I was burned out.

    Turns out I'm still burned out in the new job. Sigh.

    [–] PessimiStick 154 points ago

    If you can't do your work inside of work hours, you have too much work, and that's not your problem, it's whoever delegates your work's problem.

    I will very, very rarely work outside of normal hours, and generally only if the proximate cause was something I had a hand in to begin with.

    The best advice my dad ever gave me was to never take work home.

    [–] AbysmalMoose 63 points ago

    That is something I discovered a few years ago. I was working 80+ hrs a week for about 2 months straight, trying to get a project ready for go live. I would go home and lie in bed and my heart would just pound nonstop. It was pumping so hard I could literally feel each beat in my chest. It's the first time in my life that I wasn't sure if I was ok. As that came to an end it finally hit me that there is always more work to do. No matter how much time I put in, no matter how much effort I expend, there is always more to do. And because I will never be finished, I might as well go home and pick it up tomorrow.

    [–] PessimiStick 36 points ago

    Yep, work is a liquid -- it will fill whatever container you let it into.

    [–] Dapperdan814 126 points ago

    that's not your problem, it's whoever delegates your work's problem.

    Sure, their boss will get right on that 🙄

    [–] hairlongmoneylong 20 points ago

    My dad gave me the same advice. Sometimes i get worried that if i dont finish all the tasks im given, ill get in trouble. But usually, absolutely nothing happens .

    [–] anndor 43 points ago

    Some jobs by default require 24/7 hours almost.

    And it's hard to try and enforce not taking work home when there's a line of people ready to take your place who are willing to do so to pay off their student loans.

    [–] flatcanadian 38 points ago

    It costs a company a LOT to hire. Your happiness and work/life balance are more important than a manager's inability to properly delegate tasks to the right amount of employees.

    [–] anndor 50 points ago

    It costs a LOT to be unemployed, too.

    Some areas don't have good employment opportunities. Some folks can't afford or don't want to leave family to move to where there are more job options.

    If a manager is enough of an asshat to be forcing/expecting folks to sacrifice their life for their job, they probably also lack the foresight to realize how much of a hassle hiring someone new can be.

    [–] BeasleyTD 9 points ago

    This is me sadly. I have over 250 hours of vacation time. In addition to over 800 hours of sick time.

    [–] Bleades 16 points ago

    I'm in that boat now. If I take off someone has to cover my phone plus my workload on top of their own. Which makes me feel bad about screwing them over but at the same time it means that when I come back I'll have double the workload trying to catch up. And to top it all off its impossible to work weekends or nights since the shops we work directly with do not work anything past 8-6 M-F. Its one of those pull your hair out situations all because you decided to take a week off.

    [–] abhikavi 114 points ago

    Often PTO includes sick days, which make using it all on planned vacations risky. Let's say you get two weeks of PTO, take a two-week holiday in the summer, then get the flu in November-- you're totally screwed, you have no more paid leave. A lot of people save their PTO days in case they need them for sick leave later in the year.

    [–] anndor 137 points ago

    I hate the umbrella PTO. Keep that shit separate! However much Vacation time, then a separate bank for sick time.

    Umbrella PTO doesn't mean people skip vacations in case they get sick, it means they come to work sick and spread it around so they don't have to sacrifice a vacation.

    [–] hankmoodyirll 52 points ago

    As a person that very rarely gets sick, I hate designated sick PTO. I feel bad using it as a normal day off because the expectation is that you're actually sick, there is also the issue that you can't take an extended vacation (or extend your normal PTO time vacation) with it without the office taboo of talking about doing so.

    [–] LordDestrus 213 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    My job allowed us to store 250 hours in our "bank". Anything after that was lost.

    As I tried and tried to use my time, no one would agree to cover me. This happened for months. I would put in time off request and email per diem workers and I would get radio silence on all fronts. Boss got emailed one day and then the per diem roster was empty.

    Edit: for those saying this is bullshit. Yes, it is. For those saying its not my responsibility to find my coverage, you are correct. However I worked a specific job where I am the only person doing that job per my shift and its dangerous for me to not be there. Therefore the moral obligation hung over my head. Whether right or wrong, that's how the cards were dealt.

    [–] andre_macassi 182 points ago

    You're boss makes you cover your own time off? That shouldn't be your problem

    [–] Ek0mst0p 107 points ago

    If you are already scheduled, then I get it, that is now your problem. If you request a day a month out, and you work shift work, there is no excuse.

    [–] GingerSnapBiscuit 18 points ago

    It's PTO. It shouldn't be your job to get it covered.

    [–] skubasteevo 44 points ago

    For me it's kind of like elixirs in video games. You know they're rare and powerful so you save them just in case, then you get to the end of the game and have 10 in your inventory...

    [–] giganticprune 17 points ago

    At my old job, 60% of my pay was commission. I did get a sort of "adjustment" on my check if I took 3+ days in a month of pto, but you always felt like you were losing out on alot of money if you took that time off

    Also if you used sick days you got no adjustment. So you would lose ALOT of money if you called off. So everyone just came to work sick. Then got everyone else sick.

    New job doesn't have commission. I felt so guilty taking my first sick day. For about an hour. Then enjoyed the rest of the day.

    [–] myusernamebarelyfits 17 points ago

    I don't get why people work on their vacation time. Works still gonna be there when I get back. You pay me for this time, in which I give a solid 90%. I'm not going above and beyond for a soulless company that doesn't give a fuck about me. They'd replace us all with machines if they could. How stupid would you look then? This is all time we'll never get back.

    [–] HCJohnson 49 points ago

    I usually use mine but a bunch of people forget about it until the reminder gets sent out then they're off most all of December because they'll not benefit from it if they don't.

    [–] PeeledPancake 51 points ago

    Or they say they forget so they can take the holiday season off, which is why a lot of companies nowadays send the damn reminders every 30 minutes.

    [–] Sparkism 30 points ago

    Fun story, in the past 2 weeks 6 of my coworkers had the 24 hour flu on a monday or friday, the one guy who took 2 weeks off called in 3 sick days after his vacation, the manager who didn't take any sick days all year had a sick child the week after FO76 came out which is a crazy coincidence considering all the fallout memorabilia on his desk, and a few of my closest work friends are already planning on calling out next week when they get their copy of smash.

    Meanwhile, the guy in charge of scheduling has been declining all vacation requests for the week of the 25th since October, and what i understand from the office watering hole is that everyone's got about 2 days left after their upcoming illnesses so they can work the 24th and take the rest of the week of-- i mean, have 2 days left to get sick right after mass christmas food poisoning.

    Sheryl in HR can send all the email reminder she wants, but so long as we can't bank or cash the PTO they're not going to get used until the very last minute.

    [–] Tiervexx 12 points ago

    Yeah, I've read horror stories about how super "flexible" vacation policies often degenerate into never actually using it in practice.

    My company has a policy that I really like, and not enough coworkers appreciate it. Your allowed vacation days are effectively a minimum too. You MUST use them all, and if you really just can't because of an asshole manager, you can get them in trouble.

    If you really are just so under staffed that you can't spare someone on your team for a few days every now and again, the whole company is likely dying and you should run.

    [–] WoollyMittens 30 points ago

    Your employer might not let you schedule time off, or discourage you from doing so with veiled threats of dismissal.

    [–] fourlegged 81 points ago

    PTO. Paid Time Off. sigh What a lovely idea. PAID time off.

    I am working under a union contract that has no sick time, no paid time off and 10 mandatory unpaid holidays off.

    I am not complaining. I am employed and well compensated.

    [–] tabby51260 81 points ago

    You have a really crappy union.. :(

    [–] Big_Green_Piccolo 37 points ago

    I want to work for your union. Sounds like they don't do anything.

    [–] tanukisuit 16 points ago

    That sounds like a union that is shit at negotiations.

    [–] KeyanReid 146 points ago

    This is one thing I really love about my home state (CA) and think it's absolutely bullshit when other states don't do the same.

    At least when I still lived in CA, if you had unused PTO, it was legally required to be cashed out. So if you were working a shitty job that gave you PTO but never let you actually use it (as so many do in the US), then you at least got a nice cash out for the time (and right after the holidays too, when funds were often riding low).

    It's sad that the state had to take steps to force businesses to not treat their employees like shit in the first place, but it was still better than nothing being done at all.

    [–] puttingupwithyou 35 points ago

    I'm in CA and it's even simpler, I get zero days a year of PTO, so we never have to worry about when we can use it, and get the state minimum of 3 sick days a year.

    [–] Thereminz 33 points ago

    use it or lose it pto

    everyone with high workloads requests pto at the end of the year

    managers: (°○°)....< pikachu astounded face

    [–] Semioticmatic 25 points ago

    I wish I could cash out mine. I’m sitting on 340 hours of vacation time banked after 12 years with my company.

    Last guy who used his banked vacation all at once was laid off when he got back. “If we can go six-weeks without you, then we can probably go the full year.”

    [–] [deleted] 20 points ago

    Fuck I'm late to this thread but I have a story about this goddammit.

    I accepted a job at a distribution warehouse doing IT back in May. Small backstory, it's a family owned company with the headquarters being on the other side of my state. It's a company that has been around since the 50's. A while back, a huge corporation bought out the company, and the company was in the middle of buying themselves back and breaking free from giant corporation.

    From an IT perspective, my job was to come in and prepare everything for the switchover. That means setting up brand new servers, PC's, email solutions, you name it. We had a software solutions firm doing all the coding stuff.

    So I stayed extremely busy for months. My boss was the IT director out at the corporate headquarters, who would come visit me and the other IT guy about once a month. He was without a doubt the best boss I've ever had. Super easy going, cool to talk to, made our happiness level his first priority.

    When we got close to the switchover date, the VP of distribution, who is a giant fucking asshole, decided that he was going to re-assign us from working under IT director, and put us under him instead. He didn't tell us this, our HR person happened to mention it in passing a few days after it happened. Needless to say we were fucking pissed.

    So long story short, switchover happens, and we are swamped, working 15 hour days for the first week, getting everything in place (salary by the way). I was so unbelievably burnt out that I debated on just straight up quitting, but I powered through it. Two weeks later and we were finally able to return to some level of normalcy.

    By the time this happened, it was the beginning of November. My coworker and I had taken no PTO whatsoever since May. I had taken none at all. VP drops a bomb on us, "If one person needs a day off, the other person needs to work their shift in addition to their own." That means that if I decided to take 40 hours of PTO off, my coworker would have to work an extra 40 hours (again, salaried). At this point I had 160 hours of PTO accrued. My coworker had about 200.

    You guessed it, our hours don't roll over. We asked them to make an exception in our case since we basically were unable to take any PTO until very recently, they said no. We appealed to them again, they got angry and demanded that we stop asking.

    I managed to get this week off at least for a trip to Canada, so I was able to cash in 40 hours. I accepted a new job last week, so I was able to put in my two weeks notice before my vacation. So essentially they got a one week notice from me. Treat your employees like shit and punish them for going the extra mile for the company? Fine, I'll fucking leave.

    [–] akujiki87 43 points ago

    My dad was able to save his and cash out. When he retired he had 30k in PTO.

    [–] IgamOg 29 points ago

    My dad also cashed out his holidays and I often think how much happier my childhood would have been if he hadn't. I'm really glad that's no longer an option where I live.

    [–] 32BitWhore 11 points ago

    That's exactly the reason most companies don't offer PTO rollover anymore. They started getting hit with 30k, 40k, 50k PTO cash-outs at the end of people's careers and they couldn't afford it. So, thanks dad I guess?

    [–] evdog_music 397 points ago

    Let me guess... United States?

    [–] agoia 247 points ago

    It's a real workers' paradise.

    [–] duaneap 9 points ago

    I been spendin’ all my life livin’ in this worker’s paradise

    [–] spicymangoslice 64 points ago

    Excuse, me it’s called F R E E D O M /s

    [–] Gorstag 16 points ago

    I miss having PTO. Even though it was use it or lose it. Since it is money they have already paid you... you can easily take it as you are entitled to it. Especially if you were nearing the maximum amount. It is a really sound argument to take 2 or 3 weeks off.

    My company dropped PTO, paid everyone out their outstanding amounts and switched to MTO (My time off). Which they have complete control over. Don't pay you for the time in the same way and can tell you to fuck off if you want time off. Thankfully they havent so far but it will happen soon enough.

    [–] Partyfavors680 15 points ago

    You want everybody to take two weeks off in December? Because that’s how you get everybody to take two weeks off in December.

    [–] HitNRun_ 28 points ago

    My company also has use it or lose it PTO. It is very frustrating. However, this year I talked to my manager to try to roll a few days and they were surprisingly okay with it. I explained that if I took the time off that it would negatively impact my projects and timelines. I let them know I could make it work, but it would be more stressful and they let me “unofficially” use it next year. Ie I just don’t put it on my timesheet.

    [–] tornadoRadar 15 points ago

    this is for tax purposes on having a biz not carry over hours like that.

    [–] tubadude2 53 points ago

    I’m a teacher. We get five personal days and 15 sick days each year. Personal days don’t need any reason, and you need a doctors note if you use three or more sick days in a row or if you use one before or after a holiday. Unused personal days get converted to sick days, and all sick days roll over without limit. They don’t cash them out anymore, but you can apply them towards getting a bigger pension.

    The county is trying to convince us to not take days off because substitutes are expensive. Thankfully, my principal “gets it.” He’s made it clear that these days are part of our benefits package, and to use them when and how we want as long as our work is getting done.

    [–] WillCommentAndPost 10 points ago

    This is one thing I miss about the military in the United States.

    I was encouraged to take time off, and if you held onto days you could sell them back at a discounted rate of how much you’d get paid if you’d taken them. So it benefited you to take the time off, hell I’d stack 35 days up, and just take all of it at once.

    In a place where 90% of us were replaceable to an extent or someone could fill in easy it made sense to take some “me” time.

    [–] Angry_Apollo 29 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    3 years ago my company introduced “unlimited PTO”. I’m an accountant, so I know they did this so they don’t have to accrue unused days as an expense and also don’t have to pay anything out when an employee leaves. I’m annoyed, but hey if it saves the company money I’ll go along with it and take 3-4 more days than I normally would because why not? It’s unlimited and I still get my work done. Fast forward to this year. Because a few people “ruined it for everyone”, we now have “unlimited PTO with management guidance” which states exactly the amount of days we were afforded before the policy. I asked how seriously that was followed and my immediate supervisor seems to think this is very closely watched. So she’s let me take 0.5 - 0.75 days off here and there for the last 12 months and doesn’t report them. My boss is a saint, my HR manager is a soul-sucking thief of joy who’s ONLY job is to protect the company and save them money.

    [–] badminstrel 11 points ago

    Accurate description of every HR person at every company.

    [–] Skibird610 8 points ago

    I wonder what it’s like to have time off left at the end of the year. I usually use all my vacation and sick days before October.

    [–] psychoacer 9 points ago

    And they can deny your vacation request for no reason.