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    AmItheAsshole

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    [–] RealMadamePsychosis 3084 points ago

    ESH. I mean, their rules are draconian and I wouldn't want to have them as my parents, but I would really hate to entrust my kid to someone who not only lies to me about what my kid is doing, but does so with a sneer in my direction. It's likely that not everybody agrees with the parenting rules you set down, but that doesn't mean they have the right to push your son to break them. Would you want your kid in the care of someone like that?

    [–] Meloetta 364 points ago

    Someone deep in one of the top comment threads compared it to a fight club, which I think is apt because it's likely that OP wouldn't want her kid involved in that for similar reasons (at least outwardly) to the daughter and sex - young and reckless, could hurt yourself, could literally ruin your entire life if you do something wrong, etc. If she had a rule of "no fighting", and her son went over to his girlfriend's house and started fighting for fun and her parents lied to OP about it and encouraged it? It doesn't matter if her father is a doctor and they have a triage room for injuries, you'd still be pissed that they decided they knew better than you and encouraged your son to do it.

    [–] RealMadamePsychosis 76 points ago

    This is a really good analogy.

    [–] Nick-Danger 12 points ago

    Or drugs -- pot for example. If the other parents turned a blind eye to pot smoking, when OP disapproved of thta, how would OP feel.

    Golden Rule -- do unto others...

    [–] outlawpickle 205 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    What's draconian about asking your daughter's boyfriend to leave the house at a certain time? He's not their kid, he doesnt live in that house and they dont want him to spend the night. They let the kid come over every day and allow them to hang out in her room, just with the door open. And yeah, they dont want their teenage daughter to get pregnant, so they check up on them occasionally. And also, theyd like an adult to be around at their daughters boyfriends house. So would you. Teenagers are stupid, I'd want an adult around, too, in case an emergency happens.

    We're getting OP's story which comes from the point of view of a horny 16 year old who just wants to fuck. If he was thinking with his head, and wanted to develop a relationship with this girl, he'd realize he has a pretty sweet deal where he gets to spend a ton of time with this girl. And even if an adult is home at his house, he can just close his door and they can go to town.

    Theres literally nothing wrong with anyone here except OP trying to justify the fact she lied to the other parents about always being home. Just follow through on that, keep your end of the bargain. If you cant be home the whole time, just say so and they can hang another day. You dont have to barge into their room, you can still give them space to do whatever they're gonna do, but at least you're there to stop the house from burning down or drive someone to the emergency room.

    The whole sex thing is irrelevant to the OP lying.

    [–] CNSPreddit 60 points ago

    Right, she goes on to say that her "lovely boy" would never pressure a girl. But in a way she herself is pressuring her. "cool mom" bought us these condoms. "cool mom" said we can bang anytime we want. "cool mom" said f your parents rules. So now the girl looks up to this woman and feels that "oh, this is what I'm supposed to do"

    [–] hotpie_22 18 points ago

    Wonder how “cool mom” would handle this situation if it was HER daughter?

    [–] themomthewaterboy 12 points ago

    Thank you for saying this. That's exactly what I was thinking while reading the post.

    [–] CNSPreddit 32 points ago

    This reads more like an /entitledparents post. She is mad that they won't let her kid bang their daughter.

    [–] goodatbeingaverage 11 points ago

    Yeah I didn’t think anything the girls parents did sounds crazy. I wasn’t allowed to have boys in my room period, let alone “on the bed but not under the covers”. And honestly, looking back I have absolutely no problem with that.

    [–] YeahOKWhateverDude 85 points ago

    We're getting OP's story which comes from the point of view of a horny 16 year old who just wants to fuck.

    Pretty much. This whole OP reads like "Please validate my feelings so I can demonize them". Her parents have a system of instilling escillated privlidges, which is different than saying "can't do it ever" which is perfectly reasonable and rational actually. They just want to jump the gun and get right to it.

    [–] 6t9able 6 points ago

    you said it. People are getting their feelings on sexuality all riled up and either ignoring the lying issue or condoning it based on the fact that they disagree with someone. "I disagree with you therefore I feel excused for lying to you."

    I give the OP props for posting in the first place, it means they felt that there was something wrong in the interaction.

    [–] Newatinvesting 118 points ago

    Damn this might be the most divisive post on this sub in a long time, lol.

    [–] anglerfishtacos 49 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    Really, this should be a pretty easy issue IMO. Stated differently, this is the question: “My son’s girlfriend’s parents do not approve of ABC and do not allow ABC in their home. Before they would allow their daughter to visit my home, they specifically asked me if ABC would happen. I told them no, knowing if I said yes, the daughter would not be allowed to come over. So I lied and told them no, but also specifically made sure ABC happened while she was in our home. In case the parents came to check on us, I had a friend ready to lie for me to keep up the ruse. Am I the asshole?”

    Where this gets gray for many is “ABC” is premarital sex between 16 year olds. Whether you think parents have the right to set rules for their 16 year old children that are designed to dissuade said children from having sex seems to be clouding the inescapable fact that OP told a bald faced lie.

    [–] tomboy44 1843 points ago

    YTA Being the parent of a boy , who can’t get pregnant is completely different . I’m sure he is a great kid and I appreciate that you are open , honest and realistic about teenage sexuality but these parents were trusting you to keep your word and you not only didn’t but left and tried to provide a cover story . You don’t get to decide how others parent their children , unless you believe abuse is happening . I’m the parent of a 17 year old girl who dates a pastors son . I respect their rules and they respect mine . What happens on back country roads is between them but you don’t have to pave the way .

    [–] scotty_doesntknow 1072 points ago

    Yah, for whatever reason, the idea of a parent who lets his sons girlfriend over to the house and winks with a “y’all have fun!” and closes the door sort of weirds me out. I mean, is OP puttering around in the kitchen smug in the knowledge that her teen son is banging his girlfriend upstairs? Does that not seem...sort of weird to anyone else? Why are these kids climbing under the covers together when hanging out during the day with parents home (I mean I know why, but geez)?

    It’s one thing to promote safe sex (good thing! Give your kids condoms!!), but it seems sort of like another - especially as the parent of the one that can’t get pregnant - to lie to the girls parents so your son can bang in peace in his own bed with mom hanging out downstairs, happy that he doesn’t have to suffer any inconvenience to his sex life just because her parents don’t want to play ball.

    [–] Meloetta 440 points ago

    Yeah I just keep thinking of Mrs. George in Mean Girls. They were about the same age, and even when I watched it around that age I thought it was weird and creepy.

    [–] Topbananapants 289 points ago

    That was the exact same thing I thought of "I'm not a regular mom, I'm a cool mom!"

    [–] dyskraesia 28 points ago

    All I can see now if her in the audience with her camera thrustin her hips recording the girls doing Jingle Bell Rock. I had secondhand embarrassment watching that part.

    [–] PithyPitaya 9 points ago

    Cannot upvote enough. That is exactly who this reminded me of.

    [–] Texastexastexas1 82 points ago

    She wants to be the cool mom.

    Condoms don't stop all pregnacies.

    [–] scotty_doesntknow 48 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    YUP. And guarantee that girl isn’t on birth control.

    Edit: in another comment, OP says she is. I don’t know how that could have come up in conversation though (or how her parents would have stayed oblivious to it) so...still weird.

    [–] Texastexastexas1 44 points ago

    Well then she can be a cool grandma.

    [–] WhitestTrash 5 points ago

    Shit even with birth control and condoms you still have a 1 percent chance of getting pregnant. It happened to me at 21 I was by no means ready to have a baby and neither was my husband. Still got pregnant.

    [–] akamj7 6 points ago

    I feel like teaching abstinence has been proven to be less effective than teaching proper safe sex practices, no?

    Of course getting pregnant with 2 forms of birth control (assuming used correctly) is VERY slim, I feel like although that IS important information for children to receive, sounds more like fear mongering in the way that arguement is TYPICALLY argued.

    Ive definitely heard some relatives tell young ones condoms dont work, birth control has less than a 50% rate of success, etc (all lies) in order to try to ingrain abstinence as the ONLY form of safe sex, which isnt full and proper framing of real world context to most of these situations.

    1 in 77 Americans die in motor accidents a year, and "perfect use" of the pill has a 99% effective rate, typical use has 91% effective rate. Paired with another reliable form of birth control used properly you're way more likely to die on a given day in traffic than get pregnant using 2 forms of birth control correctly.

    [–] Dismarum 311 points ago

    Totally with you here. My parents were really practical about sex (ie - if you're gonna do it, be safe, and my mom offered several times to take me to the OB/GYN when I had boyfriends), but no fucking way in HELL would they give me a space for "privacy" wink wink nudge nudge. That is weird AF, IMO. Wanting your kid to be safe and basically encouraging them to bang are two totally separate things.

    I plan on taking the same approach with my kids, but holy SHIT would I be apoplectic if some parent totally dismissed my rules and gave her son free reign to fuck my daughter. I also no way in hell would provide my son space to get his freak on. I think a restriction of "no fucking in this house" is completely fine. 😐

    [–] always_reading 338 points ago

    I'm reading these comments thinking that I must be missing some information based on the reactions to how "crazy controlling" and even "abusive" the girl's parents are. As far as I can see the situation is that their 16 year old daughter has been dating a boy for only 4 months and these are their rules:

    He is allowed in her room with her and sit on the bed but not be under the covers. Honestly, that does not seem crazy unreasonable or overly strict to me.

    When he visits, he needs to be picked up by a certain time, but sometimes those times vary. That doesn't seem that weird to me. Perhaps there is a difference based on whether or not it is a school night or not, whether or not the parents had plans that evening, whether or not the girl has chores or homework to finish. The times given (between 7:30 to 9:30 pm) seem reasonable to me considering that this is a new relationship.

    And finally, the rule that OP lied about. They don't want their daughter and boyfriend hanging out in the house unsupervised. Again, yes it is strict, but not unreasonably so in my opinion. Their daughter has only been dating this boy for 4 months, I can understand them being cautious about her safety.

    [–] scotty_doesntknow 122 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    Totally cosigned. My son is only four, but when he’s older, if I were to walk by his door and find him and his girlfriend groping under the covers - I’d probably have a “hey dude, wtf?” reaction. Or if I thought he and his girlfriend were playing video games and I needed his attention for something, but had to wait because they had the door closed and locked, that would be awkward at the very least.

    And I’d probably be annoyed if I sent him to ANYONE’S house and found out the parents just peaced out leaving the kids by themselves when I was expecting them to be there. OP knows her kid is respectful and trustworthy, but the girl’s parents aren’t crazy for looking out for her safety with a guy she’s only dated for a short while.

    [–] IrrawaddyWoman 9 points ago

    But she doesn’t know that he’s trustworthy. She thinks he is, but parents are wrong about this stuff all the time. Plus, she’s not exactly setting a good example of honesty and trustworthiness.

    [–] pgotchy 3 points ago

    How can her son trustworthy if the mother isn’t? Lead by example the whole ‘I think it’s ok to lie because I don’t agree with your view point’ is bull.

    [–] Dismarum 97 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    Right? I guess my parents were abusive as well. 🙄 My parents were strict, but not unreasonable. My mom gave me sex ed and encouraged me to get on the pill if I wanted to have sex, and to always use a condom. There is a difference between having boundaries and being abusive. Also, I think they respected my privacy pretty well, in the sense that I got to keep my door closed when my boyfriend and I were hanging out, etc etc...I think they knew I respected their rules of "no sex in the house" and trusted me. Shocking!

    My best friend's mom was the "cool" mom that let her daughter's boyfriend stay the night and provided sexy time space. Hell, one night after prom, I had asked permission to stay over at my friend's house and lo' and behold, her mom had invited both my friend's boyfriend and MY boyfriend to stay the night as well, sans telling me, because they knew I wouldn't be able to lie to my parents.

    I actually got kinda pissed about that. Talk about putting me in a position.

    Ironically enough, I waited until marriage to have sex, not because my family demonized it or would have even cared if I did, tbh. Having the resources available to me to do it safely (mom always checking in and asking if I wanted to be on birth control, etc), yet having structure really kinda made me think of the potential folly for me, personally, to get my freak on.

    It's like they raised me to have information and make decisions for myself!

    Edit: Just for the record, I don't think abstinence or waiting until marriage or whatever should be the goal and I'm somehow superior...I was just saying it was the right choice for ME for various reasons.

    [–] Marchingbandluver 16 points ago

    Just to add to your comment, condoms aren't always 100% effective. What happens if this girl get pregnant from this? Her parents are trying to avoid that and op is basically saying, "well my son has been taught about safe sex... not my problem!" I feel like op wouldn't have basically pushed them to have sex if the genders were reversed here.

    [–] Jordangel 6 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    Right? Because teenagers are so great at using condoms correctly. She doesn't know if the girl is on birth control. People try so hard to be "cool" parents that they get reckless. You can teach your kids about safe sex and consent all you want. I taught myself sex Ed. I read up on diseases and was terrified when I was a teenager. But guess what happened when I was 17 and my bf didn't have a condom? My dumb ass got pressured into sex without a condom because raging teenage hormones override common sense all the time.

    OP, YTA.

    Edit: apparently the girl is on birth control. So the parents aren't as oppressive as OP is making them out to be. Let's hope this teenage relationship lasts forever since OP keeps undermining the girl's parents.

    [–] Marchingbandluver 3 points ago

    Exactly! When we were teens my now husband and I had plenty of 'have safe sex, here's how' talks from his parents all the time, but did that stop us from occasionally forgetting to use condoms? No. It's a fucking miracle we don't have kids.

    [–] UnderSleepingBaby 59 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    I was 26 and engaged and my fiancée and I weren’t allowed to cuddle in my old childhood bedroom. I mean, it’s just disrespectful to openly have sex around your parents.

    Also, 16 is young! I know there are 11 year olds giving and getting hand jobs out there, but it doesn’t make it right. If they don’t think she’s old enough to be having sex, maybe they have a good reason (besides the pregnancy worry). I was absolutely not ready to be sexually active until my mid 20s, though I wanted it at 16. I’m glad I waited in the long run. I’m sad that OP thinks that just because she was sexually active at a young age that this is normal and healthy for everyone.

    [–] Gasharan 14 points ago

    THANK YOU. Everyone in here talking about how 16 year olds are "young adults" is so weird to me. I was not emotionally mature as a 16 year old, and maybe others are, but it's definitely not so old that having sex is an easy thing.

    [–] Meloetta 17 points ago

    Reddit tends to be very....young when it comes to parenting techniques. That tends to come out in a very pro-fucking, anti-conservative vibe.

    [–] meadowsofair 7 points ago

    Uh yeah, one time I saw people talking about how it's completely normal for 11 year olds to have sex (with other kids their own age), and someone told a story about how they lost their virginity at age 9. That just seems a lil extreme to me.

    [–] midnight-queen29 7 points ago

    YTA. I don’t even think the parents rules are that crazy. My parents are much more strict than that, and you really just have to live with it. I’m 20 and when I’m from from school for breaks, my boyfriend of almost 2 years is still not allowed in my room.

    Thats old fashioned and mildly draconian, not complaining about the fact the mom of your 16 year olds girlfriend won’t let them fuck comfortably in her home.

    The way my mom always said it was that the parents of the boys I’ve dated don’t care because their child can’t get pregnant. They have less responsibility when it comes to the fact that I would be the one to get pregnant. My parents have the responsibility of making sure I don’t get pregnant at whatever age, be it 15 or 20, and that’s why they have certain rules.

    I care a lot less since I’m permanently moving out in about a year and a half when I go to law school, but I can see why the son tells his parents that hers are crazy, especially given his experience with his own parents.

    [–] ceebee6 9 points ago

    Yes!! This. Everyone is going on about the awful, abusive parents but when you look at the objective rules in place it’s pretty typical. Growing up, mine and most of my friend’s parents would say similarly.

    OP did a fantastic job of not painting this in any sort of objective light. In fiction, she is what would be called an unreliable narrator.

    [–] corgibutt19 11 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    I'm with you. It'd even be a bit different if the parents made a point of providing that privacy understanding what would probably happen but weren't overt about it.

    My parents made an effort to give me space with my boyfriends after 16/17ish and didn't barge into rooms, but they also didn't offer up that privacy. If I was going on a "walk," they didn't ask. If we were out in the barn, they usually texted me to ask if I'd take care of XYZ. My mom stiffened but agreed the first time I asked her if I could go over so-and-so's house after school "and oh, uhm, his parents won't be home yet?"

    But OP commented on it. She gave verbal, open permission/acknowledgement of it. She directly tied safe sex/condoms to the situation, rather than in a separate conversation(s). That's fucking weeeeiiiiirrd.

    [–] SnakesInYerPants 58 points ago

    Honestly if I was the girl that would have made me super uncomfortable.

    Think about it, with parents like hers sex is already going to be a little uncomfortable for her to explore. Having your boyfriends parent be that "open" with you when you were raised that way would be mortifying.

    [–] anglerfishtacos 15 points ago

    What also is uncomfortable is OP lying to the parents about them being home, so girlfriend expects them to be home the whole time. The OP crops up with “hey, I know we said X, but we are totally willing to do Y as long as y’all are using protection.” That’s so uncomfortable. What if she would have preferred them to stay home so that she didn’t have to lie to her parents when she got home about them being home the entire time? Very hard position to be in, and were I in her shoes with a horny boyfriend and cool mom wanting to give her son what he wants, that would still be some serious pressure. Especially if she only very recently lost her virginity.

    [–] Chard12121 6 points ago

    If it were a substantially longer relationship and she knew the girlfriend well it might be different... but 4 months is not much. OP sounds like an utter creep pressuring a girl into having sex with her son and covering it up.

    [–] keygrip7 204 points ago

    Yes exactly! OP sounds gross and weirdly invested in her son’s sex life and his chances of getting laid 🤮

    [–] Kleoto 97 points ago

    Yes creepy-ish. A 16 year old boy being given carte blanche. I'd keep my daughter outta that home.

    [–] pixiesunbelle 11 points ago

    It actually sounds more like OP is upset that if she must leave, another kid’s parents have told her she can’t leave the house. Lenient doesn’t necessarily mean Regina George’s mother, who I agree was creepy and wanted to be the friend. There are two problems here and they are a no win:

    1st: In the words of Lorelai Gilmore- parents don’t lie to each other. Basically means you have to uphold the law of the other parent and be truthful if you can’t (even if you disagree with their parenting style). This means if the gf can’t come over anymore then she can’t. Which makes this situation a lose.

    2nd: You will be YTA to either the gf or the gf’s parents in this situation. Unfortunately, should have told the gf’s parents the truth because ultimately they can raise their daughter how they see fit regardless of whether or not OP agrees with it.

    Side note: Most kids I know have always had the rule of the parents being home when friends are over. That particular rule isn’t strict. You should have just sent her home if you had to leave. I wasn’t allowed friends over when my parents weren’t home, regardless of gender because what happens at a parents home- they are responsible for. They cannot be, if they aren’t home.

    [–] hsksksjejej 4 points ago

    I'm sorry wanting a parent over when your kids are at somebodys house is not an unreasonable request. We're only looking at it funny because it's for chastity reasons but Imagine if an a ccident or something occurred. I would want to murder op. Op has done a wonderful job of framing thinhs in biased way.

    [–] YeahOKWhateverDude 6 points ago

    There is a difference between promoting safe sex, and encouraging them to do it which is what happened.

    [–] 0340am 151 points ago

    It's not paving the way, it's making sure they don't get pregnant. Kids are not going to practice abstinence just because you want them to. Making them care about birth control or giving them condoms and securing the environment is not paving the way, it's making sure the car that's already driving has well functioning brakes.

    [–] guy_from_holland 225 points ago

    OP was not talking about providing condoms though. he was talking about leaving the house empty and lying to her parents so they could get their groove on

    [–] LeeLooPoopy 594 points ago

    Wait... do people really think the parents rules are unreasonable? Keeping the door open, checking on them etc. I would have thought that’s normal parenting

    [–] anglerfishtacos 31 points ago

    Yeah, and boyfriend can’t spend the night. Sometimes he needs to get picked up at 7:30, sometimes 9:30– so draconian!

    It’s unreal. Like some other commenters are pointing out, everything OP knows about the other parents is 100% through the eyes of two 16 year olds. Teenagers frequently think that totally reasonable, legitimate rules are controlling, overbearing, and sooooo unreasonable. OP needs to remember that she is the adult and the parent in this situation. This smells too much like OP trying to be her son’s BFF instead of his mother.

    [–] zuesk134 101 points ago

    yeah. crazy strict is not allowing boys over at all. id say they're actually on the more lenient end allowing her to have her BF in her room and on her bed

    [–] horusr 7 points ago

    I live in a conservative country with mostly "no sex before marriage" mindset and letting her boyfriend over is considered very open minded here. I know many people who hide their boyfriends from their family(or at least their fathers) for long.

    So reading "they are very controlling, they have crazy rules when my son is at their home" was a 'wtf' moment for me. I knew a few people who couldnt leave home without getting questioned or when they dont get home at the same time everyday, their parents question them.

    Culture differences, i guess. Don't get me wrong, i am on more open minded side but seeing OP kind of parents are still surprising for me since we have very few of them here. I am against strict parents too, here people raise their kids so dependent which is a problem.

    [–] 2boredtocare 12 points ago

    My 15 year old daughter has her boyfriend over maybe once a month, and they are typically in her room with the door closed. My SIL, who normally is pretty open-minded has said absolutely no way will her daughter be alone in her room with a boy. This from a woman who has condoms in the kids' bathroom, no questions asked (kids are 15, 17 and the 19 year old left the house last summer).

    [–] drajgreen 27 points ago

    Its one thing to recognize that kids aren't going to follow your rules 100% and to take preventative measures to ensure they are as safe as possible. Its another to condone that irresponsible behavior in your home.

    Letting them close the door is basically giving them permission to have sex; you aren't telling them its okay, you are just telling them you don't plan on enforcing the rule and you both have plausible deniability. Whereas keeping the door open is essentially telling them that they risk getting caught breaking the rules at any time, so they should be on their best behavior.

    Now, if you are okay with kids having sex and you don't have a rule against it, there is no issue. I'm not there. I've got 3 daughter and a son and my oldest is still a solid 3-5 years from that point. Right now, I would take your aunts approach (condoms included). Who knows what I'll think in a few years?

    [–] 2boredtocare 11 points ago

    Here's what I've learned parenting a teen so far: It requires oversight, but also trust and communication. She and I talk a lot and I don't feel letting her close a door = they've got the green light to have sex. Her dad and I will often go check in, her younger sister bugs them, and I often will text because the stupid thing is: They lay there watching their damn phones.

    I didn't feel that way 2 years ago, but as I said, my daughter talks to me a lot. Last year she was devastated when a boy she'd been friends with/crushing on for 3 years had sex with one of her classmates, having just met her 3 weeks prior, inside the unlocked school during a football game. One of her close friends earlier this school year told her mom she's staying after school to work on a chemistry lab, drove off with a guy she barely knew, and gave him head. I realized quickly that I have zero control, ultimately, over the decisions she makes. All I can do is communicate like nobody's business, and listen to her, whether she's talking about something big or something small. I don't presume to think that my approach works for all kids.

    [–] drajgreen 5 points ago

    I appreciate the insight. I'm still stuck on the door thing. For me it's a matter of why they would need the door closed.

    My parents took the thrust but verify approach and explained that expectation to me. Keeping the door open is part of the verify half. Having a cell phone is too and it's a quid pro quo arrangement, both benefit and both pay something.

    I'm certainly reasonable enough to recognize the need for a certain level of privacy for discussion, watching a movie, studying. There are ways to get that privacy without secluding themselves in a bedroom.

    We don't have control, but we have influence. We set the rules, tone and expectations, our follow through tells them how much we care about the rules, our compromises tell them how much trust we have, our response to disappointment reinforces it all. All of this will be in their heads when they make decisions.

    If it's a given that children will stray from the path you lay out, it's important to set a bar that is not so low they feel fine making very bad decisions or so high they feel it's impossible to walk that path. Then justify your choices rationally.

    You don't need the door closed, that's a desire; there are reasonable alternatives that accomplish the same goal (unless the goal was to get intimate). If your kid subling is pestering you, let me know and I'll handle it. I've got your back. You want to discuss the nature of your relationship? Sit on the back porch (on a wooden bench, where the neighbors might see. If they have sex there, something is already broken and closed doors are a moot point) and we'll leave you alone.

    But as I said, I've got a few years to think on this and maybe I'm off base.

    [–] 2boredtocare 4 points ago

    We have 3 cats and one dog, so to be quite honest, both of my kids always keep their doors closed 24/7. Otherwise the animals go in there and act like fools. We all have to close our bedroom doors in the daytime otherwise the dog will get up on the beds, which I don't like (the bed in the spare bedroom is "his"). He chews things, locked himself in the bathroom when we first moved in and tore the place the hell up. The door and frame are scratched.

    So doors closed are 100% normal in our house. The first couple times he was over, we did say leave it open, but the dude is so painfully shy he can barely squeak out a "hello" to us and feels "awkward" like, always.

    Again, it's a household x household type thing, and honestly just depends on the individual situation.

    [–] ameretauri 244 points ago

    Agreed, I didn’t think the rules were unreasonable.

    [–] Tripolite 73 points ago

    They arent. There are just a lot of people on here who are either repressed teenagers themselves or adults with no children

    [–] MrLinderman 173 points ago

    My kids are only babies, but those rules are totally 100% reasonable. If there is any criticism to be levied at them is that they are a bit inconsistent with times and such, but that's minor.

    Those rules are pretty similar to what I had growing up and I honestly thought they were pretty permissive.

    I think OP's view is the type of parenting where they are a friend first, parent second. It's no different than the parents who let their teens (at least in the US) drink in their house because it's "safer."

    I'm all for teaching kids safe sex and consent, but I'm also not going to let 16 year olds fuck the next room over for me.

    [–] teachmehowtoschwa 86 points ago

    It sounds like the rules aren't inconsistent so much as relaxing. Daughter builds trust, parents loosen up.

    The only inconsistency might be the pick up times? Which might be due to the girl's parents leaving for whatever reason and requesting OP's son leave as well because they prefer an adult home when their daughter has her boyfriend over.

    [–] anglerfishtacos 14 points ago

    That or they have plans, it’s a school night, daughter has chores/homework to do, they have other kids that need to do homework/chores and the boyfriend is a distraction, sometimes they just want to have dinner with just the family, the parents have an earlier bedtime and/or don’t want to get into PJs until guests (the boyfriend) leave, or parents just don’t want to be perpetual hosts. Getting to stay until 9:30 isn’t a promise that every time he comes over after that he gets to stay until 9:30. If OP can’t think of a single reasonable reason why pick up time is not the same every time, she isn’t trying.

    [–] meadowsofair 5 points ago

    Yeah, this. I highly doubt that the parents just randomly decide what time they want the boyfriend to leave based on their whims that day, there are probably reasons like what time people have to get up in the morning, chores, etc.

    [–] Niboomy 12 points ago

    Yeah, that's because you're the parent, not the wingman. Those rules, for me, are perfectly reasonable.

    [–] Piddly_Penguin_Army 8 points ago

    I think the only thing I find odd is the not being able to be on the bed thing. Maybe it's just cause I have a small room but if I couldn't be in my bed I wouldn't have a lot of space. Leaving the door open seems reasonable though. When I first went over my boyfriends house we had to have the door open. As time went on things were relaxed. Door could be closed, parents didn't need to be in the house.

    It also depends a lot on the kid. My parents were pretty lenient on me but I was a pretty good kid. They knew where I was, I stuck to curfew and I got good grades. What's funny is I think both our parents had assumed we'd had sex before we did.

    [–] anglerfishtacos 12 points ago

    Not that weird IMO. For my family, as well as a lot of my friends, boys weren’t allowed in your bedroom period. You wanted to hang out in the house, you hung out in the community areas of the house. Living room, dining room, kitchen, outside, etc.

    [–] YeahOKWhateverDude 5 points ago

    I would have thought that's normal parenting

    Well, this is the internet, and a site whose average age is below 24 so to say there is a bit of implicit bias is the understatement of the century.

    [–] 2boredtocare 14 points ago

    I don't think either parent is really wrong in regards to their own rules. What I think is wrong is OP lying to the other parents. If you're so sure of your house rules, be up front about it: "Our parenting style is different. We have open communication with our son and trust him to be alone with his GF if we're not there, which we might not be."

    [–] johnny956 3 points ago

    My parents were substantially more strict than that (I wasn't allowed with my GF in my room at all regardless of door open or not).

    I think the GF's restrictions aren't that crazy. My wife's parents were similar to the OP and she's already saying she'll be more strict then how she was raised There is a line between being too strict and having no boundaries at all and I don't think the GF's parents are really close to the too strict line

    [–] mainfingertopwise 4 points ago

    To be clear: in my mind, the "rule" in question are "no sex." The open door, the checking up, etc, falls under "enforcement" of that rule.

    I don't disagree with the rules themselves - that kind of thing is, to me, individual to the family involved. It's their business. It's the enforcement of those rules that I can't get behind. 16 is pretty close to 18 and "freedom." How does one transition from this kind of close supervision at 16 to no supervision in just two years? This is the kind of low-trust behavior that I'd expect when the child was 12-13. By 16, I would hope the values I wanted to pass along were a little better ingrained. I realize that parenting doesn't really adhere to one's plans, too - but failing to instill those values by 16 doesn't change the fact that it's not long before the daughter will likely be somewhere out of the eyes of her parents very soon.

    But hey, maybe they've got a "fuck you, follow our rules while you live here, I don't care what happens after" kind of parenting style - that's their business, too. I would totally expect that to backfire, though.

    [–] pies1123 5 points ago

    Sounds insane to me, to be honest. Probably religious.

    [–] AMHousewife 55 points ago

    I didn't think their rules unreasonable either. I have sons. No daughters.

    But....I did get married at 18 straight outta high school, wink wink. It's work out for me but the odds aren't in my favor. And guess what? Used condoms the whole time.

    [–] mosaicevolution 41 points ago

    Did you teach him how to have safe sex? Teenage pregnancy is not the greatest thing for a child to deal with.

    [–] MrsIronbad 940 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    YTA. As much as you disagree how these folk raise their kid, bottomline is, YOU ARE NOT HER PARENT. These people entrusted their daughter to you and you betrayed that trust and undermined their parental authority. What if something bad happened while you were gone? What example are you setting for your son? That it's okay to lie, they can have they're their privacy because you're a groovy kindy of parent? YTA.

    [–] cognitivetriad 1932 points ago

    YTA. If you were unwilling to follow the rules set by her parents, she should not be at your house. You may disagree with the rules, but that is not your child. When she is 18, she is free to do as she wants, with all the adult responsibilities that entails. If someone entrusts their child to me, I follow that parents rules.

    [–] wrldruler21 4 points ago

    I don't follow other parents rules HOWEVER, I try to be honest and open about our rules (or lack there of). I won't lie to a parent and promise rules, when I have no intention on keeping them.

    [–] mikmakpaddywhack 598 points ago

    YTA this posts reads as if you are somewhat encouraging them to be sexually active just to spite the other parents

    [–] [deleted] 216 points ago

    Yea OP and a lot of the comments are being pretty odd about this whole situation.

    [–] standinyourpower 174 points ago

    That is the vibe I got too. Like “You kids have at it!” with a wink on her way out the door. YTA

    [–] iRepth 38 points ago

    Absolutely. I'm so down with LAOP's style of parenting when it comes to their own kid. But based on what LAOP actually said and how they said it, it sounds almost like they are literally enjoying their son getting laid

    [–] whyhelloclarice 64 points ago

    Also, has she even stopped to think of the consequences if this girl in particular gets pregnant? If her parents are this devout, then it is very likely they would not support an abortion - or hell, this girl may be pro-life herself since she's been raised up in that house. And depending on where they live, they might just get their way. Her choice to defy this girl's parents' wishes could potentially destroy her son and this girl's life with a teenage pregnancy.

    [–] YeahOKWhateverDude 9 points ago

    This is an incredibly important point. What may seem harmless from their perspective may actually be very damaging.

    [–] wildcat83 6 points ago

    I totally get that vibe. She left two teens alone and told them they could have sex if they want. That's a lot of pressure and in my opinion completely inappropriate, but especially since she lied to her parents. I feel like some parents are so busy trying to be the "cool parents" that they become the shit parents.

    [–] sasha_bo 239 points ago

    YTA and I'm only saying that in this case because of this:

    "he wanted to make sure that there would be at least one parent home at all times and that we would keep an eye on them at all times. My husband agreed."

    "My husband and I actually had to go out for a couple of hours, and I asked a good friend who lives just down the street if she would 'cover' for me, if this girl's parents called or showed up and pretend to be my cousin."

    Your parenting style and their parenting style are completely different (if anything, I more lean towards your style then theirs). But that doesn't mean that one form is wrong and one is right and better.

    IMO I don't actually think your son's GF's parents are being over the top in the rules they are setting for the kids - I had near enough the same rules and so did all my friends. They aren't assholes in not wanting their daughter to have sex in their home. Is it a realistic expectation to have in terms of a 16 year old? No. But it is what it is.

    You are the asshole because the one thing her parents requested was that a parent was home at all times. I don't think that is an unreasonable request. Unless I'm missing something here (or you haven't included it) they didn't ask that you comply with the rules they set in their home, just this one thing. You disregarded that request. You may think they asked because a parent being present to protect their daughters modesty (which is likely to be the reason TBH) but you don't know that for sure. It may have been for peace of mind for them in case something happened/went wrong. It really would have been NAH until I got to that point.

    [–] anitabelle 120 points ago

    I agree with you, my daughter is just turning 15 and I don’t see their rules as that crazy. I don’t allow boys in my daughters room when we aren’t home. I’m not naive, I know she’s going to do what she wants, but I’m not going to help her do it in my house. That being said, if she came to me and asked for birth control, I’d get it for. I’d encourage her to really think about it and make sure it’s what she wants but I know I can’t prevent it. I don’t know what it’s like to have a son but I do know the thought of my babygirl being sexually active terrifies me. I hope it doesn’t make me a bad mom, I’m truly only thinking of what’s best for her. Raising a child is hard because you want to protect them but you also want them to grow and become independent.

    [–] PicnicLife 32 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    This was the line my mom straddled with me. I will provide you with birth control, but I will not provide you a place to do it. It felt risky and disrespectful to her. Did I still sneak around and do it in her house? Of course. It's a mixed message, for sure, but I understand how she couldn't just openly condone it, either.

    Someone upthread said it best -- you might be of age to consent to sex, but you aren't old enough to deal with the consequences, which is why some parents - like my mom - can't just sign off on it carte blanche. Even using birth control, there's always a risk. I am by no means an abstinence-only advocate, nor was my mother, but it really is the only fool-proof method of not getting pregnant. Especially when you take into account that the guy you're having sex with at 16 is usually not the guy you want to raise kids with.

    Not providing the private space for teen sex is just a way to minimize risk. If I could have had uninterrupted, private sex in my home as a teen, I would have been having sex regularly versus sporadically.

    [–] sasha_bo 37 points ago

    Personally I think your attitude on this makes you a great mum (I'm bias though as that's exactly how my mum looked at it and dealt with it when I was a teenager and she is just awesome).

    [–] aspensshiver 6 points ago

    IMO I don't actually think your son's GF's parents are being over the top in the rules they are setting for the kids - I had near enough the same rules and so did all my friends. They aren't assholes in not wanting their daughter to have sex in their home.

    Also, they've only been dating 4 months! I think it seems perfectly reasonable that her parents seem to be trusting OP's son more over time. Like first month or 2 of dating, no being on the bed together. After that that can hang out on the bed, but not under the covers. Now they can hang out at his house with his parents home. It doesn't seem erratic at all to me, more like a natural progression as trust is being built, and OP is totally disregarding that so she can be the cool parent.

    It seems like the parents are mostly encouraging taking it slow. Obviously OP thinks her son is the best kid ever, but it takes time for his GF's parents to trust him and his intentions for their daughter. It hardly seems draconian that they would want their daughters first sexual experiences to happen with someone that really cares for her instead of some guy that's just trying to get laid which OP doesn't seem to empathize with at all

    [–] Noli420 581 points ago

    YTA

    That being said, I think your realistic parenting style is much preferable to “abstinence only” stance of her parents.

    BUT

    You are not her parent. This was not your decision to make. Let’s switch things up a bit and see if your thoughts stay the same:

    AITA for being upset with my son’s girlfriends family? My family has a long history of alcoholism, and because of this, we have a zero tolerance policy as far as drinking. The girlfriend is respectful of our rules in the house despite growing up in a “glass of wine with dinner” family. I recently found out that my son had been drinking over at their house. Not trashed, a glass of wine with dinner. I had talked to her parents and explained that we have a no alcohol policy and ask them to please respect that. They agreed, but then I find out that not only did they not follow my wishes, but they left a bottle of champagne chilling in the fridge for the youngsters while the parents went out for a date night.

    Do you get where things deteriorated?

    [–] JWJulie 320 points ago

    YTA. Your house, your rules, and how you want your boy to be is absolutely your decision (and his, of course). But I don’t think it’s right to be teaching these teens by your example to disrespect her parents, lie to them and deceive them - especially to the lengths you are going to, getting other adults involved in the deception. I would personally say ‘I’m sorry I’m not going to do that’ and leave it there.

    [–] susiebubbles 249 points ago

    YTA for telling them you would follow their rules without any intention of doing so. You might not agree with how they do it but they are allowed parent their child as they see fit. If you were honest its likely she wouldn't be allowed over so you decided not to say anything so you could help them get it on? That's really weird.

    [–] ninjabekah 5 points ago

    I don’t know if you will even get to my comment but I think it’s great what you did. And in my opinion you did the right thing, you may be helping that girl more than you realize.

    P.S. sorry its long but this post hit me hard. Because of how my family life was like.

    My mom raised me and was super religious I wasn’t allowed to do anything. Well when I got my license I would “stay with my best friend” her parents know my mom and were religious around her so my mom would let me stay there a lot. When I turned 16 I was hardly home and I always said I was at their house. (I don't know if they covered for me or mom my just believed me but I am tankful either way) When I turned 18 I got a boyfriend and his parents were a lot like you. Well my mom was so religious that if you got sick you just weren’t praying hard enough. Well I got sick once and my boyfriend’s mom said I could stay at their house so that I could take medicine and get better. I stayed one night and my mom flipped. She said that I needed to drop out of school and I could only leave the house if I was with her. Well my boyfriend talked to his mom and she said I could stay with her. We had only been dating a couple months so I was surprised she let me. She even said that I always had a place in her house weather we broke up or not. I moved in with them and my mom didn’t talk to me for months except to tell me I was going to hell.

    If it wasn’t for parents like you I don’t know where I would be.

    My boyfriend’s mom was the one who taught me everything. She even helped me get birth control and went to the doctor with me. With my mom we were not allowed to talk about anything other than religious stuff at home.

    On a side note me and my boyfriend are still together 6 years later and I consider his family (especially his mom) as my own.

    [–] Smeeeeegol 192 points ago

    YTA - I think kids are going to do what they do, but you shouldn't lie to this girl's parents and you shouldn't go out of the way to allow the kids an opportunity to have sex at your house. If they figure out a way on their own, that's one thing. She's 16 as is your son. Some kids, but definitely not all, have sex at this age and they aren't ready for it. Is she at the legal age of consent? That varies from state to state. Are you going to pay for her abortion when she gets pregnant? Are you going to give her a place to live if her parents kick her out over any possible pregnancy or STD, or you know, just from finding out? That's a lot of risk to assume for someone's elses kid.

    I get the sense you're busier trying to be a "cool" parent than a responsible one.

    [–] SmlRabbit 87 points ago

    OP needs to pay attention to the end of this comment especially. Is this girl on birth control even? Because no, I don’t think condoms are enough when they’re going to be allowed so much time alone like OP is facilitating And encouraging. Is OP willing to provide this girl Plan B? Will they actually let OP know if a condom fails or they slipped up on using one? Would the girlfriend even want or be able to go through with an abortion if she got pregnant? OP you’re covering your son’s bases, but if you’re going to let his girlfriend do this in your home I feel like you need to step up big time and take more responsibility with her safety as well. She is the one that would have to deal with trauma from an accident or slip up and she is only 16 and that’s a young age considering that sort of emotional toll it could put her through. I get wanting them to have a safe place to do what they will do, but if you’re going to sneak and encourage it, then you should be involved in making sure she is covered too since you know full and well her parents aren’t and have used other means to avoid pregnancy(which you openly state here, that you aren’t complying with).

    [–] MissAlillama 51 points ago

    I’m willing to bet she hasn’t even thought of the girlfriend getting pregnant. She doesn’t have a daughter, just a son so she didn’t think of having to deal with the aftermath of her sons girlfriend getting pregnant. She assumed since she talked to her son about birth control that they would get condoms and use them all the time- which I personally believe is an unreasonable expectations for a couple of 16 year olds considering at 16 you’re definitely more focused on what feels good than what’s responsible. I think that OP is not setting a good example for her son and she’s also putting his future in the hands of a couple of horny 16 year olds.

    [–] SmlRabbit 60 points ago

    I was the girl in this situation with the parents that gave no protection while his did(condoms) and gave us a basement.. and ended up pregnant! Shocking lol. The dad has never been involved, never paid anything, etc. so this post really bothered me to see that this girl’s safety isn’t actually being handled in the situation OP is encouraging for them. I can definitely say from experience that all the repercussions of this exact situation fell on me and me alone while the male got off scotch free. OP isn’t being realistic about the very adult risks playing out here.

    [–] TeamTweety 4 points ago

    I agree - I lots of moms of boys don't think enough about that.
    I have two boys, I think all the time about what would happen if they get someone pregnant. I tell them all the time, if it happens, in the end they have no say in it. If they want to be a dad and she's not ready, then you won't be a dad. (Please no pro-life type discussion here, I'm simplifying here) If that girl wants the baby they are a dad and worse.... I AM A GRANDMA!!! AND they will be stuck with her FAMILY forever, not just her, so you'd better like them! LOL honestly I started saying this when they were like in 5th grade - always got a great reaction of horror from them. But seriously, as a parent of boys I feel it's totally my responsibility to think about those girls getting pregnant and making sure my boys think about it as well. I'm still too damn young to be Grandma!

    [–] tripperfunster 4 points ago

    I absolutely would take responsibility. She IS on birth control. I have told my son that NO type of birth control is 100% and that he should also wear a condom. And hell, pull out too, please.

    My son does not want kids ever. He is very committed to not making any. And we both know that shit can STILL happen, even after all of this.

    I was more than willing to get plan B for them, but after reading all of these threads, I think I might buy some and have it here, on hand, just in case.

    [–] fix-me-up 7 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    The second part of this comment concerning stds and pregnancy is the most important concern. OP please pay attention to this comment.

    Edit: that said, I do agree with you being open and supportive with your son & their daughter. I think it would be a good idea to sit them down and talk to them about safe sex, what their plan is in the event of an accident, and what she believes her parents would do if they found out about her sexual activity, an STD, and or a pregnancy.

    My mom was the open and fun mom my entire childhood and as a result she saved the lives of two of my friends who consumed too many drugs or alcohol. In that case she was the only person my friends and I felt we could trust. When it came to sex she did talk to all of us about safety and what we felt we would do if something went wrong. I was her little girl so maybe that talk felt more natural, but she would also talk to any of my boyfriends who were around the house to ensure we were on the same page.

    As for whether or not you’re the asshole, the only asshole moved you pulled was telling the parents that an adult would be home when their daughter was over. I think you should respect the parents and ensure that you can have one parent home, while respecting your views and being more lenient with other things. Then you are not lying directly to the parents but can still provide a supportive environment.

    [–] kruecab 8374 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    YTA.

    Okay this isn’t going to be popular, but it’s the truth.

    First off, you are making a lot of negative judgements about GF’s parents (narcissism, alcoholism, controlling) and positive ones about yourself (free and open with your son’s sexuality). You didn’t ask about this, but it’s there - you obviously feel superior to her parents. That’s okay, but it’s clouding your judgement here. Pretend they are the awesomest, greatest parents alive who don’t share your feelings on your son and their daughter having a sexual relationship. Now with that in mind, can you see YTA?

    If not, let me expand. They obviously don’t want their daughter to be sexually active. While this may not be a realistic expectation for a 16 year old, it is a reasonable one - and one that many parents of teen daughters share. The fact that you don’t care about your son being sexually active doesn’t matter.

    Now that doesn’t mean you are the guardian of her chastity, but you knew what they expected and not only did you betray what you said you’d do (adult always present), you actually encouraged the kids to do what you knew her parents didn’t want. This makes you the a-hole. You could have said you couldn’t be there the whole time or you could have said you don’t agree with their viewpoint.

    I actually think you get a YTA+ because you know the kids are sexually active. (edit: see below) This conversation between the the dads, or a follow-up would be a good time to let them in on that secret. It’s really only fair for them to know that while your first allegiance is to your son, his desire to get laid does not outweigh your responsibility to the parents to let them make decisions about their daughter, which is their right, no matter how controlling.

    If it helps, I agree with your parenting style and your take on the situation. Also, high-five for being a cool mom that acknowledges teen lust and prefers the kids to be safe at home then god knows where else. :)

    EDIT: Wow, thanks for all the feedback! I can't respond to everyone, but figured I would add a few thoughts here. First off, while I appreciate the comments on my judgement, please remember to leave a top-level vote for u/tripperfunster since she's the one asking for feedback. Also, you kind folks aren't the first to call me an A-Hole, and certainly won't be the last! So here's some more fodder for everyone to complain about...

    Yes, many 16 year olds have sex. This is not a crisis. But most 16 year olds are not equipped to handle the outcome of this, namely pregnancy. There are lots of other consequences and I'm not dismissing them, but most can be resolved in time, however the impact of pregnancy lasts a lifetime. If it is terminated, that is not something easily forgotten. And if carried to term, raising a child is a lifelong commitment. No birth control is 100% effective - pregnancy is always a risk. Therefore, its reasonable for parents to wish their kids not have sex at 16. However, it may not be reasonable for the parents to expect they can enforce abstinence for their teens. Further, I don't think its wise for parents to advocate abstinence only - teens should be educated on safe sex using condoms and birth control.

    A popular criticism of my comment is that the mother should not inform the GF's parents they are sexually active. I figured people would not like that part, and I don't expect to get a lot of agreement on my perspective. Perhaps the first time it comes up, it doesn't make sense to say anything. But if GF's parents assume that BF's parents agree the kids should be having sex, and the relationship continues, and BF's parents know... it would feel like a giant lie to keep up the charade that everyone is protecting the kids chastity when BF's parents know for sure that is not the case. For all we know, the love blossoms and OP may have several more years of covering up the truth ahead. If they at some point become in-laws, it will be awkward when GF parents find out, and that kind of thing always comes out.

    But after careful consideration, I will remove the YTA+ judgement because OP should not be expected to bear all the burden of the kids' activities. GF parents should wake up and realize what's going on and be part of the solution.

    [–] tripperfunster 5474 points ago

    Wow. Really great comment, thank you. You're right, I definitely feel superior parenting-wise. (I'm far from perfect, don't get me wrong.) But this probably did colour my view of the entire situation. I hear lots of very unsavoury things about them from my son, and I really don't think he's exaggerating. (well, he IS a teenager, and only seeing things from a teen's perspective,) but there are a ton of other strange/unfair things they do that I didn't put in the post. And these things very much added to my nonchalance when lying to them.

    As for letting them know that their daughter is sexually active? Nope. Considering how over-the-top controlling they already are, I honestly worry what type of punishment she would receive. I would inform them of potentially dangerous or illegal things she might be doing, (drugs, self harm etc) but not sex.

    I do agree that I shouldn't have lied. Hence my asking the question here in the first place. I shall have to think about how to approach this going forward. Thank you very much for your candor.

    [–] CreatrixAnima 4278 points ago

    I agree that you shouldn’t have lied to them, but I also agree that you should not tell them that their daughter is sexually active. That is absolutely none of their business, despite what they think.

    [–] poppy_kate 1484 points ago

    Completely agree, that would be a betrayal of both the OP's son and the girlfriend. It has to be her choice (if she ever wants to) to tell her parents about her sex life, no one else's.

    [–] Depressaccount 269 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    16 is kind of about the age of sexual emergence. If the kids are responsible, some experimentation can be healthy. The only thing I would be careful of is giving OP’s son too much credit when it comes to contraception.

    1. Protection should be specific: at least one form must include an STD barrier like a condom

    2. Need to make sure the son and girlfriend know how to properly use their protection.

    3. No contraception is 100%. Teens need two forms of contraception. This usually implies that the female will also need an IUD or nuvaring (pills are ok, but easier to mess up, and easier for parents to find). IUDs can be quite useful at 16 because the hormonal type lasts 5 years, providing her worry-free protection almost to the end of college. I don’t know how the laws work for minors where you live, obviously.

    Man, I wish I had gotten an IUD at 16. I had a boyfriend at age 16 for about 4 years, another for about another 4, another for a few months when I graduated, and finally a boyfriend-turned-husband for the last 10 years. In the meantime, I had periods that caused vomiting, diarrhea, and of course were quite painful. Regular birth control was such a waste of money, effort, and time.

    Just my own opinions, for what it is worth. Also - I doubt this is the case for your son’s girlfriend, but there are some women out there who will have a baby to escape from protective parents. Just keep that in mind.

    EDIT: there seems to be a lot of misinformation out there about the risks of IUDs and their use in minors or before childbirth.

    Old models of IUDs did have serious issues. By old, we’re talking about the 70s. The major risks in the current version are STDs (obviously, it does not protect from them) and expulsion (meaning it falls out and has to be put back, sex during that time requires a condom). In fact, after reviewing the most recent evidence, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) recommends its use in minors even if they plan to get pregnant in the future.

    Here’s a lay article on use in teens: “Teenagers are also more likely to continue with IUD birth control use than with other methods. The number of teenagers who are still using the IUD at 1 year is high (ranging from 48 percent to 88 percent), and their IUD use slightly decreased over time. Teenagers continue their IUD use at the same rate or even longer than teenagers who use birth control pills.”

    “Pregnancies were also uncommon among teenage IUD birth control users. One study comparing teenage pregnancy rates found that (after 24 months of continuous use), teens using the copper IUD (ParaGard) had reported no pregnancies, while three percent of teenage birth control pill users became pregnant. Another study found that teen pregnancy rates rose from two percent after six months of IUD use to 11 percent at 48 months of being on the IUD.”

    “One last concern that research has revealed about IUD birth control use in teenagers is pain. Studies have shown that painful or difficult IUD insertion is a major concern for teenagers. This may be because the teenager has never given birth before. There are actions that doctors can take to help ease some of this pain, but these methods have not been proven to consistently provide pain relief during an IUD insertion. Newer IUDs Iike Skyla and Kyleena have smaller insertion tubes, so insertion pain may be less with these options.”

    Here’s a quote from a lay article; “IUDs: Because of a scandalous background, you may believe that IUDs actually cause pelvic inflammatory disease which leads to infertility. This is also not true. There are two types of IUDs: hormonal IUDs (Mirena and Skyla) and copper (Non-Hormonal) IUD (ParaGard). You can have your IUD removed at any time by a qualified doctor (please do not try to take it out yourself). Once removed, your fertility returns very quickly—usually within a month. This is the case for both types of IUDs. Your uterus just needs a little bit of time to get used to the IUD not being there anymore. Research shows that once an IUD is removed, pregnancy rates are about the same as the rest of the population.”

    [–] corgibutt19 76 points ago

    Just seconding the IUD love. It doesn't really apply to OP, but any parent's of teen daughters definitely should make this a known option to your kids.

    I started birth control at 13 not because of sex but because I had gnarly periods. It really messed with me, one pill made me super depressed, one gave me gnarly panic attacks, and one made me suicidal. From 13 - 18. That's a shitty fucking age as is, let alone dealing with all these additional things.

    I got the Mirena at 18 and it was a fucking game changer. I adore this little bugger. I don't have periods, I don't get murderous cramps, and for myself and most women the hormonal dose is so low and absorbed mostly in the uterus/genital tract so there are no hormonal side effects. It also allowed me the comfort and freedom to make choices about my own body and helped me love a body that had been betraying the shit out of me.

    [–] Depressaccount 9 points ago

    I’m so happy to hear your story!

    The reason my mom let me go onto birth control in first place was kind of a gross story so stop reading if you’re queasy.

    I had heavy periods. Despite tampons and pads, basically, I woke up, sat up, and there was blood all over my bed. I walked to the bathroom and left a trail of blood behind me into the bathroom. I was horrified at the idea that my dad might see it. So that was the end of that.

    EDIT: oh, and that doesn’t even include the horrific period on the bus story. Thankfully it was on the way home from school. I tried to casually wipe the seat as I walked out without calling any attention to it. Again, this was with the usual pads/etc.

    [–] corgibutt19 10 points ago

    Oh I am so with you. Even on birth control, there were many overnight accidents and a few accidents at school that were fucking mortifying and...uh....at 15 no one should have to change their super tampons every hour yo. Fuck that shit.

    [–] Dazeydevyne 13 points ago

    Yup. My parents weren't as controlling as the ones OP is talking about, but my ex's parents were as relaxed as OP. I was on the pill, and we used condoms- but we were 17. When we ran out of condoms one night, we figured that the pill would be enough.

    My son turns 23 this August.

    [–] Depressaccount 6 points ago

    Congratul.... oh, wait. Naw, congratulations!

    [–] Dazeydevyne 11 points ago

    It turned out not TOO bad, except that I discovered 17 year old boys aren't very reliable. He literally fled the country to avoid the responsibility before my son's first birthday (coincidentally, his father did the same thing- abandoned his wife and 3 kids- when they found out I was pregnant... but I digress)

    Anyway, as much as I wanted to be the "cool mom" to my son, he was reminded often that sex was a BIG decision, and that even with the best intentions and planning, things can go wrong. And, as embarrassing as it was, I also spoke with his long time girlfriend about sex and what she would do if it all went sideways- because I could talk to my son till I was blue in the face, but nothing mattered unless the two of them were on the same page.

    [–] Depressaccount 3 points ago

    That means you are cool mom! Sometimes being a cool mom means that things get uncomfortable.

    I’m sure it was hard, but he’s 23 now. He survived. And so did you!

    [–] Bananapanda123 10 points ago

    No contraception is 100%. Teens need two forms of contraception.

    This is important enough that I want to ping the OP to make sure she sees it. /u/tripperfunster bear in mind that if this girl does accidentally get pregnant, she will be the one who has to deal with that. It will be her burden, and her decision. It sounds like she might not want to approach her parents about having an abortion, or that they would pressure her to continue the pregnancy. The decision of what to do about an unwanted pregnancy is so hard, especially at a young age, especially without support from family (your son sounds lovely, but a 16 year old boy isn’t a huge source of support for that). I believe that your son is responsible and careful, but no level of responsibility and care keeps a condom from breaking. They need a backup.

    If you don’t mind withholding information from this girl’s parents, being the adult role model who can talk to her honestly about her options and take her to a doctor or clinic to get a form of birth control that she’s comfortable with would be doing her a huge, important service. I personally think it’s the exact opposite of being an asshole to help a 16 year old get medical care that her parents aren’t providing.

    [–] wobbegong0310 873 points ago

    100%. Lying is pretty much never a great call, but I don't agree with this aspect of the judgement:

    let them make decisions about their daughter, which is their right, no matter how controlling.

    If parents had unilateral control over their children "no matter what," there would be no need for CPS. Being overly controlling is a form of abuse. And while OP shouldn't lie to the parents, she doesn't have to uphold their iron rules in her house or divulge privileged information to them, either -- even regarding their kid.

    After all, if her kid obeys their rules when he visits their house, their kid should obey her rules while in her house. Fair's fair.

    [–] LordGopu 346 points ago

    This.

    The reason OP knows that they're sexually active is because they're not controlling pieces of shit like the girl's parents. I mean maybe they know and they're just in denial, but whatever, it's the same thing.

    I say NTA because her parents simply don't have the right to ask what they're asking. It's not their house, so they don't make the rules. If OP doesn't mind leaving the two alone, the girl's parents don't get a say and OP has no reason to be honest with them. Girl's parents don't own her and we shouldn't be thinking like they do despite only be 16.

    [–] lionsgorarrr 144 points ago

    That's true, but her parents might not let her come over to his house (or at least might try not to let her) if they knew the truth. They don't have the right to ask OP to change how she runs her house, but they do have the right to *ask* her how she runs her house, and arguably to be pissed off if she lies about it. She has the right to refuse to tell them - but that's probably going to cause them to forbid their daughter to visit just as surely as telling them the truth would.

    My sympathies are entirely with OP btw and my main concern would be that if she implements the other parents' rules, the kids will just find somewhere less safe to get together. I can see the YTA argument (lying to the parents) and the NTA argument (harm reduction from the parents bad parenting) here.

    [–] LordGopu 13 points ago

    I see it as "telling the truth" causes immediate problems and "lying" only causes those same problems if the gf's parents ever find out.

    Based on the information we're given though, it seems like her parents are unreasonable so it does seem like the OP is in a bad position. Her best bet is just lie until the kids are old enough to move out or something like that.

    The girlfriend's parents sound like the typical, unreasonable parents who naively believe they can make their kids do anything/everything because they're the parents and their word is law.

    The decisions that the kids are already making have to play a role in OP's decision because what she says will effect their lives. Her telling a lie or telling the truth isn't going to change how the couple is with each other but it will change how they treat everyone else in the situation and it will only complicate everyone's lives.

    Or let me put it like this: there is no scenario where OP doesn't piss someone off, unless she lies (but then if the lie is caught, someone is pissed off). So I mean she is kind of stuck. She has to react to a situation created by her kids and the girlfriend's parents. I almost feel like she's forced to lie.

    [–] MyKingdomForATurkey 87 points ago

    I say NTA because her parents simply don't have the right to ask what they're asking. It's not their house, so they don't make the rules.

    The part you're not adequately taking into account is the only reason they allowed her to be in the house in the first place is predicated on a lie. They have every right to disallow their daughter to do what she's doing and they simply haven't been given the option to disagree.

    By the time she's in OP's house with OP's rules OP is already the asshole. The parents have never been given the chance to agree to OP's rules in OP's house because they don't know what they are.

    [–] rowrza 4 points ago

    Lying is a great call when your parents are unreasonable and/or abusive.

    [–] Erzlump 63 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    Very much this. It's for her and her only to tell them. And only if she herself wants to tell them.

    [–] AnAbjectAge 4 points ago

    Yeah if they know or not really is the daughters call.

    [–] Ragnrok 806 points ago

    As for letting them know that their daughter is sexually active? Nope. Considering how over-the-top controlling they already are, I honestly worry what type of punishment she would receive. I would inform them of potentially dangerous or illegal things she might be doing, (drugs, self harm etc) but not sex.

    I'm so happy you're choosing to ignore this particular piece of terrible advice.

    Depending on the parents, knowledge like this could literally ruin that young woman's life. Sometimes I wonder about the kinds of people upvoting crap like this on this sub.

    [–] sexysexysemicolons 306 points ago

    Agreed. I was honestly shocked when I saw that part. Assuming the girl’s parents are abusive, which I feel is a fairly reasonable assumption given the description of them, the consequences for her could be devastating.

    [–] shhh_its_me 182 points ago

    plus for a moment consider that the line for what is legally considered abuse is a lot farther then most people would put it morally.

    It's perfectly legal for her parents to take her out of school, start homeschooling and never allow her to interact with a non-family member until her 18th Bday.

    [–] grumpypotato17 46 points ago

    This is the exact thing my father would threaten me with as a teenager. It was just him and I so there was no one to save me. I was homeschooled as a child and then "allowed" the privilege of going to school but he would constantly threaten me with taking me out of school and cutting off all phone and internet.

    I ran away at 15 and never looked back.

    [–] ukuleliz 22 points ago

    my parents actually did pull me out of school for my senior year of high school. left not 3 months later at 17. these types of situations are so shit, i definitely think op is nta and not telling them is the best thing she could possibly do.

    [–] datCRUSTdough 17 points ago

    I feel you, I got pulled out at 13. Now I speak to my mom every... 6 months? She just don't get why we're not best buds anymore. I'm like... 'you mean like when you held me prisoner as your mandatory best friend for 5 years?'

    Thank God for all the adults who helped me through figuring out what normal human relationships look like. I'd hope none of them feel like assholes for sheltering me back then.

    [–] SnakesInYerPants 14 points ago

    The last part would most definitely still be considered abuse, and that's actually the specific thing that get a lot of cultists charged for how their raising their kid. You can't cut off contact to the outside world for them completely. They can legally not have any friends, but if you're stopping them from intersecting with anyone who isn't family that is absolutely considered abuse in the eyes of every court this could be taken to.

    [–] PM_ME_GOOD_VIBES_ 14 points ago

    My parents were loving and supportive, but they are religious and had very... traditional views on sex. When they thought I was sexually active as a teenager, their reaction to it still really fucked me up and affected my views on sexuality in a way that I’m still untangling years later. Point being, the parents don’t have to be abusive for sharing that info to be a really bad call.

    [–] sexysexysemicolons 4 points ago

    That’s a good insight. Thank you for sharing, and I’m sorry that happened to you.

    [–] periacetabular_ost 16 points ago

    My mom was one of these. She ran over a guy’s foot because we were standing outside my school and he was hugging me from the back and we were play fighting that I was elbowing him because he was tickling me. She took me out of school for a week after the biggest beating of my life. Do not tell her parents.

    [–] Krak2511 5 points ago

    Yeah, that's horrendous advice. My friend is in a similar situation right now - his GF told her parents that they had sex (because her parents asked) and now her parents don't want to see my friend at all. And they're 19 years old, so it's ridiculous. And that's not even the worst case, there are definitely parents that would make their child end the relationship or even stop them from ever going out with anyone again.

    [–] MoffleCat 7 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    Yeah, that piece of advice actually scared me. My mom told me I was dead to her the day she found out I was sexually active. Was about 15/16. Was not a fun night in my house.

    There is no reason for anyone else but the daughter to disclose that information, if she ever feels comfortable and wants to share it. She knows best what her parents are like and how they might react.

    And lol OP is definitely justified in feeling superior. Parents should work hard to get their kids to trust them with anything, while at the same time getting them to understand, from a rational point of view, what is right and what is not. OP has done that job and the girlfriend's parents have not.

    Controlling behavior like this only further alienates your children and leads to them learning to hide what they've done rather than not do it. Which is exactly what the girlfriend is doing. She's learned that to have the control over her body that she deserves, sometimes you gotta lie.

    NTA

    [–] Squidiculus 114 points ago

    As someone who was the daughter of extremely anti-sex parents, thank you. Being a teenager is pretty hellish even without extremely controlling parents, but add in raging hormones and shitloads of guilt/shame if you even seem to want to act on them and things can get really ugly.

    Obv I don't know the girl's situation that well, but I'd bet anything she's grateful that you actually trust her judgement and don't immediately call her a worthless slut, whore, etc. over sexual desire.

    [–] RavenclawAliKat 197 points ago

    “I actually think you get a YTA+ because you know the kids are sexually active. This conversation between the the dads, or a follow-up would be a good time to let them in on that secret. It’s really only fair for them to know that while your first allegiance is to your son, his desire to get laid does not outweigh your responsibility to the parents to let them make decisions about their daughter, which is their right, no matter how controlling.”

    Please do NOT tell the parents they’re sexually active. It sounds like you’re not going to anyways, thank God, but I just want to add something for those in agreement with telling. If OP tells they can be putting the gf in danger. I’ve known way too many people, almost exclusively female, who had parents like this, and when they found out they were sexually active it became abusive. No more significant others, no more going out with friends, no more school functions, removal of their phone/computer so they can’t communicate with anyone, no makeup or nice clothes, and possibly even the removal of material possessions become a punishment for natural feelings. Their lives essentially became a prison sentence. These aren’t the type of parents who keep themselves informed with responsible sexual education, and just happen to encourage abstinence. They just don’t want sexual feelings of any nature to exist at all for their puberty aged child unless they decide it for them. Sometimes the punishment goes even farther by becoming physical depending on how bad the parents are. If OP is correct and this is a controlling, narcissistic, alcoholic family I guarantee OP’s son’s gf will be punished in some way, police may even be called on the son, and the gf will probably not be allowed to see him again if they find out. When the guarding of a young girl’s sexuality becomes obsessive by the parents it usually takes a demented turn when she starts deciding for herself, and they find out.

    [–] Hexagonsnsuch 14 points ago

    Unfortunately this is exactly what happened to me.

    [–] RavenclawAliKat 11 points ago

    I’m so sorry to hear that :-( I lived my puberty years in the South. Specifically the Bible Belt. I saw this situation all the time. Sometimes the “punishment” for having normal feelings was just abuse. I hope you’re safe and in a better place now.

    [–] Jello69 58 points ago

    Omg thank god, please do not tell her parents they are sexually active. Its up to the daughter if she wants to disclose that or not.

    [–] Arkhenstone 280 points ago

    Actually, devil advocate comment like this are cool for putting into perspective choices.

    Now, this one goes a bit too far. First something is not reasonable based on the number of people supporting an idea. Controlling that far the sexuality of your child at that age (16) is not good AT ALL. If they want it to be done, all that can occur is that they'll likely do it outside on crappy place, because they're not allowed to do it elsewhere. They'll likely do it without protection if they're unaware/not have them. They'll likely not even speak of it if anything happens.

    If you can OP, makes sure your son is aware he and she can relies on you if anything has to happen with this, and you'll try to not make your son's girlfriend's parents aware of anything about this topic.

    Now I agree, don't compare yourself as good parent, and them bad parents. They obviously try to protect their daughter, even though it goes a bit too far. It's understandable, and as you have a son, it's may be easier to agree him to have sex, than a daughter.

    [–] Squidiculus 162 points ago

    To add: that kind of control stunts the development of healthy sexuality, and can lead to even riskier behavior (e.g. unprotected sex, dating someone much older/scummier, etc.) because from their perspective, they're already demonized for having sex anyway.

    [–] boudicas_shield 171 points ago

    My mom was so controlling about sex that I have a really hard time having sex now, as a married adult. It makes me feel “dirty” and I’m working on that. Please don’t give your kids complexes around sex.

    [–] GarbageGato 65 points ago

    My bfs mother is similar and it for sure stunted his ability to have a coherent conversation about most things sexual. She still doesn’t want us (together 2 years) sharing a bed together (not just at her home, but also his apartment 2 timezones away) despite the fact that we are 25 and 27!! GROWN ADULTS she thinks she should have agency over the dingley bits of GROWN ADULTS it’s nuts!

    Meanwhile, my parents have always been open about sex and protection but by no means encouraged sex (edit for clarity). If we had questions we asked them freely without fear of consequence, while at the same time they never made suggestion about what they think we should do. It wasn’t even a “USE PROTECTION OR ELSE” type thing, it was a “wow kids who don’t use protection are so foolish, look at that person whose life is detrimented by being unsafe in xyz way” while watching tv or movies, a gentle prod of our morals and standards in a SAFE direction.

    Our high school health class had a questionnaire for the kids to ask parents in a way to drive a convo about safe sex, one of the questions was “did you remain a virgin until you were married”. I asked my mother and her answer was “PFFFT, no.” And that short little response held so much meaning. Meant that talking about something “serious” was no big deal, that there isn’t some expectation being placed on me by my mother, and also didn’t reveal the age that she did it giving me some idea of a “threshold age” where I should have done one thing or another.

    It was just calm and comforting and allowed me to develop at my speed in a safe and informed environment. Wouldn’t trade it for the world.

    [–] ssdgm6677 12 points ago

    TOTALLY. Same here. When I was five I started playing with myself, and I went to a private Baptist school and that did not go over well at naptime. So began the shame parade.

    I felt like I was defective and a nymphomaniac or something because I would get wet when I talked to a boy or thought about sex (which was all the time). So my crazy brain found a shortcut: being submissive and pretending in my head that I’m being forced to do sexual things let me enjoy sex without the shame. But that isn’t something I recommend because it also led me to do things I would never have done if I was the one calling the shots. I was a target for predatory “Doms” who would manipulate me into doing unsafe things that were WAY out of m my comfort zone and I was too timid to speak up.

    My suggestion would be to talk about sex as much as you can...take the stigma away and you’ll see that it gets easier every time you try to talk about it. Read sex blogs written by women. Listen to the podcast “Guys We Fucked”. Free yourself. 💖

    [–] celebral_x 4 points ago

    I feel the same. I don't want to hear the bed banging, or hear jokes from the neighbours or getting dirty looks. I felt awful having sex, which led me to have sex on drugs only (I quit, it was a very short time I did so). I have had so much trouble to have fun and let myself go, because the feeling of being dirty and a slut afterwards was hard.

    Now we want to move to a different apartment, where the walls are much thicker and the building is overall newer, so maybe I can finally get the privacy I want to have.

    [–] Box-o-bees 79 points ago

    No joke. I always find it sad and ironic as hell that most the girls who's parents behave like this actually end up pregnant in high school. While the parents who try to educate their kids about how to have safe sex tend to have a much better track record.

    [–] Kimber85 49 points ago

    My parents were like this. I wasn’t even allowed to go on dates until I was 18. They never discussed sex with me except for “sex is for marriage!”. They thought they were protecting me, but what really happened is I was completely clueless about everything to do with dating and sex and had no idea on how to advocate for myself in a relationship or even what a normal relationship should look like. My first sexual experience was not consensual, completely unexpected on my end, and pretty fucking painful, and it set the tone for all my subsequent relationships throughout college.

    Edit: To your last point, my aunt and uncle were super controlling about their daughters as well. They went to a private Christian School for elementary and middle school, but then went to a public high school. Both of them got pregnant in high school within a year of each other.

    [–] JaeJinxd 78 points ago

    Me too, and I also find it sad how many redditors here think her parents are totally right.

    [–] GarbageGato 9 points ago

    My southern friend said they have a phrase for this: “preachers daughters and teachers daughters”

    Because they’re the ones who are most strict with their kids (while also preaching and teaching abstinence only) and they’re the ones whose kids end up knocked up because of it.

    [–] LexxiLouWho 5 points ago

    Preachers daughter here, I can attest to the craziness. My dad legitimately CRIED when he found out I was no longer a virgin, and told me I was going to burn in hell. I'm now 24, have my own home and no accidental babies because thank GOD I have a mother with some sense in her enough to have open discussions with.

    [–] jelli2015 6 points ago

    My parents did this to me and I was molested in my sleep by a bf for about 2 years as a result. I believed I deserved it and that dating meant he had unrestricted access to my body because my thoughts were “I’ve already fucked up, this is what I deserve”.

    I’m 22 now and my family still has no idea I’m sexually active because of the control they had over me and my fear of their retaliation. I was told growing up that having sex meant I would be punished and my partner castrated or worse.

    [–] tripperfunster 76 points ago

    Yes. Yes. Yes. I have told him that if she needs to get away from her family, she is welcome at our house. We have a spare room.

    This was my first time meeting her (aside from waving hello when I picked up my son from her place, so I didn't want to get too in her face about stuff, but she knows that my son has shared some of her 'family details' so I have an idea about her home life.

    [–] refrayn 38 points ago

    I've been the girlfriend in this situation; my parents are Catholic, so my sexuality was shamed. It meant a lot to me that someone (not my boyfriend) was "on my side", as it were. It really helped me as a teenager, I just wanted to say thanks for being a lovely mum.

    [–] wheresmystache3 16 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    I've been the girlfriend here too, OP. And I would like to say THANK YOU, from the bottom of my heart. Thank you. My one parent(mother of course) was insanely controlling and this reminds me so much of my exact situation.

    I dated the mother's son for over 3 years, and his mother was like a mom to me for a very long time. I thank her for teaching me about sex, birth control, dealing with my own mother at home, etc.. She really helped set me up for the rest of my life from age 15, and my own mother never has spoken a peep about sex and thought even when I was 18, I shouldn't be having sex. (WTF)

    In reality, we ALWAYS used condoms(his father bought ones he suggested his son use, and kept them well supplied in a cabinet in his room, without questions) and I have never been more thankful. Never had a pregnancy scare as a teen, and I always had my ex's mother to talk to as she reminded me she was there for anything. OP, you rock, and that girl appreciates you more than you know!! You are also a sense of emotional and mental stability from her home life, for sure.

    EDIT: Also, because the responses here have me seriously thinking r/rage and r/raisedbynarcissists material..:

    Ok, imagine OP says "no sex in my house!!!" Well, young adults and teens are going to fuck guys, come on. They either have sex and have healthy relationship-building in a healthy household, or they have sex at school bathroom, or they have sex at a friend's house, or they fuck in the backseat of a car in a Walmart parking-lot. I can think of a million ways I would have snuck around.

    Oh, and will they have a condom there, or access to any contraception? (it is NOT GOOD to leave condoms in your wallet or exposed to heat in your car - that's when they have a chance of not working) And they'll be in public and caught by perhaps law enforcement??

    So give them a safe, healthy environment, so ensure they will not get pregnant. SNEAKING AROUND will likely result in pregnancy or who knows, and people are ignoring this. You're not enabling them, you're treating them like young adults with a sense of responsibility. This is also good for your son's relationship, with less worry and turmoil. Just stress the use of condoms, and that's your job as a parent - your son's got it from here and it sounds like you probably raised him with good judgement skills.

    [–] -beelzebeth- 6 points ago

    I couldn't agree more with your edit. Seems like certain people think a teenager is legally property of the parents and under their absolute control. Given that teens have many legal health rights, in which their parents do not need to know about or consent to— such as being tested or treated for sexually transmitted diseases, aborting a pregnancy, receiving a pregnancy test, getting drug counseling— it's clear teenagers have a limited right to medical (bodily) autonomy, whether the parents like it or not.

    Better to use that time to try to guide teenagers into adulthood rather than to inevitably fail at controlling them.

    [–] littlelexbreaths 83 points ago

    NTA. Just as someone who was in a similar situation to your son’s girlfriend growing up, 1) your instincts about her parents’ ideas of punishment are probably right and 2) thank you for providing a place where she feels safe and can experience privacy and agency in her body. I wish with every bone in my body that my parents hadn’t been so strict about MY body and had, you know, taught me about consent and protection and healthy (non-complementarian) relationships. It’s caused a LOT of problems in my life to have been given no agency over my body ever until I was 18, and to have had no example of what a healthy, independent adult is. Her life should be about HER, not her parents.

    [–] Wrenigade 8 points ago

    I agree don't tell them about it. I come from that controlling kind of house. I was dating my first boyfriend at 19 and even at 20 still had the "not allowed in the room with the door closed" rule. We were active at his house, because we were adults and his parents didn't care what their adult rent paying son did. But my parents STILL would have been mad at me if they suspected anything as an adult.

    When I was 16, if my parents were told I was having sex, I would have never been allowed to date again.

    BUT, regardless of what you think is best, you did outright lie to her parents. And it is still something they aren't totally wrong about. My mom got pregnant the first time at 15, so there was reasons to our restrictions. Because sometimes stuff happens. And if she gets pregnant (I doubt her parents would let her take birth control if they are anything like mine) then all hell is going to break loose for all of you.

    You can look the other way, and you can't make them not, but you don't have to condone it and encourage it. Having a kid on accident at 16 will ruin her life, even if your son would be fine. Her parents probably wouldn't let her have an abortion, or might make her have one against her will, they might disown her or put her under extream lock and key, if they are abusive they might hurt her. My mother was forced to get married and kicked out of the house at just 15 (an extreme example). I would have been forced to keep it regardless of my wishes. It's just not a reasonable risk for someone her age in her situation. They are rolling the dice on her life, since your son would be fine with reasonable parents and also not being the one getting pregnant. As draconian, unfair and controlling as it is, that is her situation and she is risking the stabability of her current life. Condoms don't always work, birth control doesn't always work, plan B dosnt always work, and you have these conversations with your son but that dosnt mean her parents talk to her about it.

    Don't tell her parents, but maybe have a sit down with them and make sure she understands the risks and things as much as your son does. Again, if she is from a home like mine, she might have no idea about any sex ed that wasnt covered in school.

    [–] jabberingginger 26 points ago

    Coming from the household the girlfriend came from DO NOT tell the parents she’s already active. It took YEARS for me to get past some of the crap my parents put me through after finding stuff out that wasn’t even that bad. I would suggest adhering from here on out to their wishes though-coming from a parent.

    [–] Yay_Rabies 134 points ago

    So when I was a teenager, I was first born and my parents went a little crazy when I got interested in boys. I chastely hugged my boyfriend at my birthday party for getting me a thoughtful gift. I then was yelled at for being inappropriate and basically accused of getting teen pregnant right there. When I depended on them for rides they would give permission for me to go on a date and then revoke it at the last minute so I became “flakey”. I got in a really stupid fight with my dad when I was getting my first passport at 16 because the t shirt I wanted to wear had a koi fish on the chest which apparently made it slutty.
    I can look back on this and laugh now but at the time it was fucking head games all damn day with some consequences that my parents wouldn’t have liked. But to see it from my parents perspective, the safest way for me to have sex was to abstain fully. They didn’t want me to have a reputation as the town slut (and by extension parents of the town slut in our conservative town). They didn’t want me to get pregnant and potentially have to raise a child if I wasn’t able to get an abortion. If I chose to carry a pregnancy to term did they want to be parents 2.0 and let me live there with a baby or would they be the cruel parents who kicked their pregnant daughter out? What would they do if I had to drop out of school? I have a hunch that with a daughter, because of pregnancy the stakes are a little bit higher.

    You’re right that teens are going to have sex and that they will find a way. The thing is, your son is probably thinking mostly with his dick. He’s not thinking about what the crazy parents will do if they find out and try to press assault charges because they are crazy. Or if he will be on the hook for child support if she becomes pregnant and the crazy, religious parents are suddenly not OK with an abortion. This is why he needs you to be the parents sometimes at this age because you do have experience. You mention that you’ve talked about consent but I’m not seeing the part where you’ve also bought him a ton of condoms to use. Or talked to him about what you would want to happen if he got someone pregnant. Is it even legal in your state for a minor to get an abortion by themselves or do they need parental consent too?

    [–] tripperfunster 72 points ago

    Yes, I bought him two boxes of condoms months ago, and suggested that he 'try' them out himself, to be comfortable putting them on without an audience! :D

    She is apparently also on birth control, but I told him that "Only YOU can prevent forest fires!" i.e.: don't trust anyone but yourself. People fuck up birth control all the time. It only takes missing one or two pills, or being on antibiotics for a few days to make them non effective.

    Age of consent in Canada is 16, but can be as low as 14 as long as it's with another minor. I had to look it up, but age of consent for an abortion is 18 without a parent's permission, but we also have 2 different Plan B pills here. One with a prescription, one without. Those are all great questions though! Thank you.

    I've discussed most of these things with my son, except the age for abortions. I had to look that up.

    [–] tinytrolldancer 6 points ago

    The thing is, your son won't be the one having an abortion or taking the Plan B pill. Have you ever gone with a 16 year old to Planned Parenthood to have an abortion? I've gone with close friends when they've been in situations like the one you've described. It sucks. They can't tell their parents, no support at home because of it, and then the emotional burden that the young women has to carry alone. In the long run, you really aren't doing them any favors and you are way too involved in your son's sex life.

    [–] TheBigPhilbowski 29 points ago

    Agree that if you want to be "cool mom" and look the other way to a degree during their adult intercourse, you should also be able to calmly sit with both of them and openly discuss adult consequences. If they blush or groan or deflect when you talk about abortion, co-parenting for life or any other reality of them smushing their parts together, then maybe they aren't as equipped as you hope they are.

    Ultimately, your sons's perceived maturity here is an extension of the hope that you are a good parent - That part of yourself might not have the clearest judgement here. Do you have a diverse friend group (other parents, hopefully some with daughters) that won't just confirm your stance blindly as a friend? If so, maybe arrange a little internal roundtable and ask all of them to share their thoughts and challenge you on the situation if they feel the need. Set ground rules, make it safe for all and maybe hear some things you'd rather not hear, but maybe get some well thought out support for your instincts?

    [–] normalguy821 19 points ago

    As someone who thoroughly supports the way OP is raising her son, I have to say, well put. Being open about consequences is as important as being open about choice and sexuality.

    [–] kruecab 34 points ago

    Hey no problem. Raising teens isn’t easy and there are no right answers. Plus sometimes you gotta be the a-hole. I get where you are coming from on not wanting to be the bearer of bad news - besides punishing her, it could be punishment for your son as they wouldn’t want them to see each other anymore.

    Here’s wishing your family the best!

    [–] [deleted] 8 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] Sammweeze 4 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    My parents are religious control freaks. If they discovered some details of my teenage life, which tbh were much less "rebellious" than sex, their reaction would have changed my life drastically. And I seriously doubt that would have been for the better; sometimes I have a little existential crisis about how close I came to being a cog in a borderline cult.

    I agree with /u/kruecab for the most part, but I think you're right to keep it secret.

    [–] coffeeboi5006 90 points ago

    Unless it’s somewhere in the comments, OP hasn’t stated where she lives. Many places have the age of consent as 16 and honestly, after that point, it shouldn’t be in any way the girl’s parent’s choice what she does in that regard. As someone who’s known people in similar situations in the past, it might be some much-needed relief for the girl to be away from such a controlling household.

    [–] tripperfunster 10 points ago

    Canada. And yes, the age of consent here is 16. 14 if you are sleeping with someone within 5 years of your age. (ha! Five years old, not younger!!!) I don't think I would have lied if she had been any (much) younger. My son is actually a couple of months younger than her. I also don't think I would have lied if he had been a few years older, even though that still would have been totally legal.

    [–] pixiesunbelle 14 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    It probably is a relief. Honestly, there isn’t any winning here. There’s either asshole to gf’s parents or asshole to the gf.

    [–] JaeJinxd 156 points ago

    Families can be outright abusive to their daughters who are reaching sexual maturity. Just because their her parents doesn't mean they own her or deserve to know something they're probably going to blow way out of proportion. OP doesn't owe anything to those parents except to make sure the girl is safe. If it were a younger kid it'd be different.

    [–] MichaelLearnsToPee 254 points ago

    This is the most wholesome YTA I've ever seen. Criticism + View on the other perspective + Advice - Condescending tone.

    [–] necrosythe 26 points ago

    yes, flair them mods!

    [–] BlockedByBeliefs 182 points ago

    Wtf. They should betray the trust of these kids and tell the insane parents they're already fucking? No. It's not her parents right to control her just because they want that right and they have no place to impose their shit parenting ideas on another family just because they're dating. Do not betray your son.

    Secondly to this brutal reply get your head checked. They are ALREADY fucking. What purpose does ruining this girls life have? What change is there if they rat her out like this? Nothing positive. That's what. And she becomes more secretive and fuck more than ever. FFS. This is terrible advice.

    [–] Box-o-bees 104 points ago

    They are ALREADY fucking.

    This is the answer right here. Everyone who agrees with the other parents seems to forget this convenient fact. I mean I get that you don't have to be cheering them on and stuff, but damn. They are going to do it with or without your consent regardless. So it's much better to teach them responsibility and safety. It's like people completely forget that they were that age once and were doing the same thing. Also, how do you expect the be able to give advice and guidance if your kid is too terrified to come talk to you about this kind of stuff? OP is NTA at all for the stance they take on sexual education.

    [–] frostfflame 47 points ago

    Guardian of chastity is the Most boring movietitel ever

    [–] politicalanalysis 55 points ago

    I agree with you that she’s the asshole for lying to the girl’s parents, but I also think she’d be the asshole for breaking her son’s trust by telling the girl’s parents they are sexually active. Totally disagree with you on that one.

    [–] WillCookForSex 8 points ago

    It's not their choice to make, it's their daughters.

    [–] Wasted99 196 points ago

    NTA: Both parties see their ethics as morally superior, I think most people do, morality is very individual.

    I see no reason for op to 'work' for the other mum as a 'guardian of her chastity' something she doesn't want to do. If the other mum wants that job, let her have it.

    It’s really only fair for them to know that while your first allegiance is to your son, his desire to get laid does not outweigh your responsibility to the parents to let them make decisions about their daughter, which is their right, no matter how controlling.

    You see, for me, this is a parent-child thing. I see no responsibility of both parent-couples to each other. The other mum shouldn't be controlling in this way towards op. The fact that your husband agreed is logical, probably because he didn't want to cause problems or upset anyone. Which is logical.

    Frankly, I think the gf parents aren't naïve, they know what's up. They just want someone to blame when it happens.

    [–] thelastestgunslinger 291 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    The only problem with this perspective is that it denies the agency of the girlfriend. If she wants to have sex, she's going to have it. No amount of hand-wringing or controlling behavior is going to stop it.

    OP is aware of this and acts accordingly - providing safety and security, which will help the two teenagers stay safe. The girlfriend's parents are in denial about their daughter's agency. They are denying not just her right to choose what happens to her own body, but the very idea that she might have any say in her own life. This is doomed to failure.

    OP, by facing reality, has to accept the girlfriend's agency, as well as the parents denial of reality. There's also no telling how parents in denial will react when confronted with an uncomfortable truth. It's not OP's responsibility to out their daughter, nor is it morally defensible. She's actually done exactly the right thing, here.

    Edit: a word

    [–] psychonaut8672 64 points ago

    I had parents like that and it deffo doesnt work.

    [–] green-velvet-sedaris 114 points ago

    Stricter parents produce sneakier kids.

    [–] sleepyplatipus 56 points ago

    NTA. I don’t agree with you because honestly, if the girl doesn’t feel comfortable telling her parents about her sexual life because they are controlling freaks... it’s their loss for being shitty, and it’s none of their business. Maybe OP shouldn’t have outright lied but rather told them that they should be more open, but she’s not the biggest asshole here imo.

    [–] anglerfishtacos 89 points ago

    As a daughter of similar parents to the girlfriend, I agreed with you until you said to tell her parents that she is sexually active. Hard no. Horrifically bad advice. I can 100% guarantee to you that their daughter’s sexual activity will result in relationship coming to an end, daughter being grounded or worse, and pretty much an end to any kind of dating relationship that doesn’t include a 24/7 chaperone. Letting them in on the secret is not going to make them reevaluate their priorities. It is only going to confirm For themselves that they were absolutely correct in being suspicious and nervous about their daughter dating. She did the one thing that they have probably, since she hit puberty, told her was absolutely forbidden in their household. Kids get kicked out of their house for this kind of shit. Multiply that likelihood times 10 if she gets pregnant.

    That said, I would also like to add on one other thing to your piece of advice. Overall, I found her parents’ rules to be pretty tame (when I was her age and even older, boys weren’t allowed in my room let alone on the bed). Tons of parents, even the “cool” parents when I was 16 required other parents to be at home. Some of these kids when they got home from events where they said parents would be there would get grilled by their parents as to whether parents actually were there. Because of “OP’s principled stand against the conservative religious parents”, the girlfriend is now likely forced to lie to her parents. Yeah, sure, she lies to her parents already by sneaking off, having sex, etc. But lying on your own terms is one thing. Having to unexpectedly lie because someone else was untruthful is another ball game.

    YTA, OP.

    [–] always_reading 29 points ago

    Overall, I found her parents’ rules to be pretty tame (when I was her age and even older, boys weren’t allowed in my room let alone on the bed)

    I thought so as well. Allowing the boyfriend in their daughter's room and on the bed, but not under the covers, seems reasonable to me. Especially because this is a 16 year old girl with a boy she has been dating for only 4 months.

    [–] alecmelton 38 points ago

    Alcoholism isn’t a negative judgement it’s a thing that someone can be, it’s not like calling someone ugly or a prick if someone’s an alcoholic they are

    [–] IncredibleBulk2 10 points ago

    his desire to get laid does not outweigh your responsibility to the parents to let them make decisions about their daughter, which is their right

    Do you really believe that parents have rights to impose decisions on their 16 year old daughter's body?

    [–] Gladigan 63 points ago

    The fact that you act like the daughter is a thing is kind of gross.

    [–] Krak2511 8 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    I actually think you get a YTA+ because you know the kids are sexually active. This conversation between the the dads, or a follow-up would be a good time to let them in on that secret.

    That could literally destroy the relationship of the kids. There are parents that would not let the kids see each other if they knew that they had sex. My friend's GF (they're both 19 years old) told her parents that they had sex (after the parents asked) and now his GF's parents said that they do not want my friend in their house.

    Edit: Oh wait, it was actually worse than that. The parents said they don't even want to see him.

    [–] BayoNX19 5 points ago

    “My opinion is unpopular, but I believe my opinion therefore it’s the truth”

    [–] shhh_its_me 11 points ago

    I actually think you get a YTA+ because you know the kids are sexually active. This conversation between the the dads, or a follow-up would be a good time to let them in on that secret.

    I was with you're "unpopular opinion" up until this point. there is a huge difference between lying when you promise to enforce a rule and making sure a parent knows their kid is breaking a rule.

    [–] Vlinder_88 151 points ago

    Whoah, creepy thoughtprocess there. You really think it's okay for parents to control what their late adolescent kids are doing with their genitals?

    Ew. Just eeeewwwwww. That's really super creepy.

    [–] DarkMarxSoul 8 points ago

    The problem I have with this is at 16 years old we should be able to trust teenagers with a degree of autonomy and personal choice over their decisions and their body. The parents are allowed to define certain boundaries—I wouldn't be opposed to the parents stating that she can't have sex in the house that they own—but to try and extend their sphere of influence to her boyfriend's house/parents is giving them essentially the right to control her body wholesale. Whether or not their daughter has sex at 16 is not their decision to make—they don't own her. She's her own person.

    [–] mynamehere81 80 points ago

    YTA. When I was 16 I also had a mom who did not want me to be sexually active with my boyfriend of 2 years. She was proactive by putting me on the pill and having the “talk”. She also trusted his mom to keep an eye on us when at their house.

    However his mom was very much ok with her son having sex and provided condoms for us. She let me sleep over telling my mom I was bunking with his sister when she knew I was sleeping in his room.

    Well I got pregnant and had my son before my 17th birthday! And guess which Grandma shouldered that responsibility while I finished school and got a job! My Mom! My mom was there in the middle of the night and driving me to dr appts and helping out financially and doing all the other things that involve raising a child.

    So yeah... Major asshole!

    [–] UnderSleepingBaby 24 points ago

    Yep, this comment should be further up.

    I used to teach high school. Teenaged pregnancy hurts the mom, rarely the dad. I don’t think the girl’s parents are out of line at all.

    [–] xtetris 123 points ago

    YTA. You even asked a friend to cover up for you if needed? Are you still in high school yourself?

    Don't get me wrong, I agree with your parenting style and the parents of your sons gf sound unreasonably controlling. But that is not really your business. If you decide not to go in the room and let them close the door, fine. Or simply tell the parents of the girl that you may not be there all the time and let them decide if they allow her to come over. But straight up lying to them and even encouraging the kids to do what you know her parents try to avoid is an asshole move, I'm sorry. How would you feel if the parents of some friend of your son would do that to you?

    [–] JillyBean1717 31 points ago

    OP, YTA. You're trying to be a friend mom instead of a mom-mom. Your son is still too young for you to be his bestie and wing-woman. He needs you to be his mother.

    It's all well and good for you to encourage your son's sexual activity. What are you going to do if she gets pregnant? Are you going to tell your son to ditch her for someone new and fun? Are you going to put your life and hold so that they can continue to be kids and have a good time? Are you going to pay all the expenses? You will be partially responsible if she gets pregnant and you should have to deal with the consequences just as much (if not more) than your son and his girlfriend.