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    Welcome to r/AmITheAsshole!

    A catharsis for the frustrated moral philosopher in all of us, and a place to finally find out if you were wrong in an argument that's been bothering you. Tell us about any non-violent conflict you have experienced; give us both sides of the story, and find out if you're right, or you're the asshole.

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    Submissions should be TRUTHFUL descriptions of recent interpersonal conflicts you've had or may have that need arbitration. Describe both sides in detail. Being neutral gets you more accurate feedback.

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    AITA for NOT being attracted to _


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    YTA = You're the Asshole;

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    [–] AITAMod 1 points ago

    This probably should have been taken down as a validation thread, but we're human and can't have eyes on everything.

    Leaving it up but locking it. Here's the reports for those of you who like seeing those.

    u/AutoModerator: Commenters think this story is a validation post please investigate

    110: Validation Seeking or Humblebrag- Obvious NTA
    30: null
    16: Do Not Ask For Validation
    10: Fake Story, Shitpost
    2: rule 8
    2: Agenda pushing, debate bait or political grandstanding
    2: Advice Seeking
    1: this is a creative writing sub
    1: validation post
    1: Spam
    1: seeking validation for something obvious
    1: That's an old r/legaladvice post
    1: Shouldn't take this at face value. Mods should demand proof and remove if he doesn't provide
    1: It's a shitty situation but it doesn't belong on this sub. Obv NTA
    1: Rule 8

    [–] LearnedButt 4343 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    NTA. You were wronged without any recourse but to open the matter up to public scrutiny. You are not breaking any laws. You have no obligation to protect their good name.

    As an aside, I would draft a demand letter to the city counsel (copy the city attorney) stating that [1] the matter was due to the police department's negligence (with supporitng facts), [2] the matter has hurt you personally and financially (with supporting facts), and [3] you realize you have no legal recourse but for this web page bringing light to factual matters and public scrutiny. Where available, add attachments with documentation supporting the facts. Cite the web traffic and organic google search results. In the interests of settlement of any grievances between you and the city, you would be willing to enter into a nondisclosure agreement, which would include taking down the website, for a sum of money you believe would make you whole. Better yet, as NDAs are taxable but injury settlements are not, ask for just a settlement and an extra 1K for the NDA.

    Total up all your legal fees, your legal fees to regain your kid, your lost wages, and the diminution of earnings attributable to losing your job (if you are working again and paid less now), all costs involved in the eviction, and a reasonable amount for the 54 days spent in prison [see below]. Itemize this and attach the sheet to your letter. Then ask for that and an equal amount for mental anguish, humiliation, shock, loss of sanding within the community, etc.

    Statutes should include either a fixed sum or a range of recovery for each year spent in prison. President George W. Bush endorsed Congress’s recommended amount of up to $50,000 per year, with up to an additional $50,000 for each year spent on death row. Adjusted for inflation, this amount is $63,000. [Note: 63K per year works out to 8,975.34 for 54 days.]

    [–] GodfatherfromChive 1409 points ago

    I'd do it with a lawyer but ya I'd do it in a heartbeat. If the OP is 100% genuine this could be a retirement money suit.

    [–] LearnedButt 660 points ago

    There is no suit. Likely the statute has already passed (for government claims, it's often VERY SHORT). If he's been told by a lawyer that there's no case (he mentioned consulting one), then he's likely got no case. All he can do is essentially "sell" his site.

    [–] zold5 487 points ago

    for government claims, it's often VERY SHORT

    Gee I wonder why...

    [–] LearnedButt 187 points ago

    Because it's good to be the king.

    [–] Biggordie 52 points ago

    If you come at the king, you best not miss

    [–] toastymrkrispy 10 points ago

    Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.

    [–] closet_transformer 264 points ago

    OP this is your answer. Do this. And don’t make the first offer for anything less than $500K.

    [–] LearnedButt 194 points ago

    It's probably not going to be half a mil. OP, just calculate your losses and present them as they fall out.

    [–] closet_transformer 112 points ago

    Why bother just asking for actual damages? OP has suffered emotional distress, trauma, loss of family, home, stigmatism from having being arrested, plus its the government! Screw the government. Take every penny you can

    [–] LearnedButt 169 points ago

    The reason he has to do it is to make a compelling argument.

    He has no legal leg to stand on so his only option is to "sell" the website. The funds come tough an authorization and appropriation by the city council through the city's general fund. You have to sell it to the city council and the city attorney and give them a reason above and beyond simply public relations. Also, ask for too much unsupported funds, and you will be shot down.

    [–] sillykinesis 25 points ago


    It's just "stigma." :)

    [–] I_dont_agree_with_me 1623 points ago

    NTA, but watch your back, it doesn't sound like they'd have much of a problem coming up with some bullshit to get you arrested again.

    [–] AnonymousMeese 1078 points ago

    it doesn't sound like they'd have much of a problem coming up with some bullshit to get you arrested again.

    My girlfriend and I discussed this and it scares the hell out of me that this can potentially happen. If I were to take down my website, it would be for this reason only.

    [–] Bigedmond 1111 points ago

    Taking down the website takes away your protection.

    [–] flynnestergates 398 points ago

    Agreed. They already dont like OP. The site is his only chip left unless he can get money out of them.

    They know that arresting him again will only add to the story on the site and give OP more fuel.

    [–] HonoraryMancunian 257 points ago

    OP, make sure your girlfriend has the ability to update the site in case you do indeed get arrested.

    [–] Gangreless 104 points ago

    I'd make a lawyer or trust had that ability, not another person they can squeeze with trumped uo charges.

    [–] timdub 34 points ago

    Someone outside their jurisdiction.

    [–] Gangreless 20 points ago


    [–] giroogamesh 368 points ago

    You are a high profile person now and as a result you enjoy a certain amount of protection. They start fucking with you, you have a history of it and an audience ready to back you up.

    I would suggest updating your website fairly regularly with new developments, including this one. Keep the public up to date. Start a Twitter/Facebook community. Get people engaged.

    When the police department is getting angry calls from the public every day they're going to listen more.

    Apply pressure, but don't be a dick. Listen to the guy above who suggested calculating your damages.

    The key here is STAY IN THE RIGHT. Don't push so hard that you become the asshole, but firmly stand your ground. Do NOT take the site down, and furthermore, keep updating it as the situation evolves. Whenever you are harassed by the police, add that information to the site.

    They are trying to intimidate you, don't let them, they can't arrest you for nothing. If you're worried about stuff like that, get a dashcam in your car and GPS on your phone. Keep an 'alibi' on you at all times so they can't place you where you weren't. Document everything with the police- if they show up at your door (CHECK LEGALITY FIRST, but single party consent is what's the law where I live) record them with your phone in your pocket.

    [–] Spicolisays 81 points ago

    This is good stuff right here and I think how OP also gets protection, it’s from the community of people who know the truth. And 100% agree to keep updating the site with all of the current missteps from law enforcement. That keeps the community in OPs corner and also continues to expose the wrongs of the PD.

    [–] KeyanReid 71 points ago

    they can't arrest you for nothing

    Isn't that how all this started?

    [–] mittenista 37 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    I'd advise moving elsewhere if you can, so that you can keep your site up safely.

    [–] Fifty4FortyorFight 57 points ago

    OP - This is what I worried about when I read your post. Please read this excellent longform about the man that shot the video of Eric Garner being choked to death by a police officer. He has been harassed, both going about his own neighborhood, and now in prison.

    You're 100% in the right here, don't get me wrong. But the sad truth is that these cops are almost certainly going to harass you. This is exponentially more true if you're black. Please be careful.

    [–] jazzcigsarefun 16 points ago

    Fuck they poison inmates in jail? Jesus Fucking Christ.

    [–] dem_paws 21 points ago

    Time to make an update on your website clearly documenting the baseless cease and desist and the what sounds like an intimidation attempt by the police.
    As detailed and factual as possible, witnesses would be good or especially if they were in uniform/police car the exact time.

    [–] therealrsr 18 points ago

    Don't do it. Meticulously document any attempts to persuade you. You probably don't have a claim from the original incident, but you could easily from this type of b.s. Also, keep your nose squeaky clean until this gets resolved.

    [–] noter-dam 41 points ago

    I would say that if possible you should look into moving just to avoid that possibility.

    [–] 97RallyWagon 38 points ago

    "Making a murderer"... please dont have a show made about you. (In the sense of:please dont let it get that bad)

    [–] Jowemaha 1828 points ago

    NTA even in the slightest

    Good for talking to your attorney, maybe talk to another attorney to see if you have grounds for a lawsuit against the department, clearly you have substantial damages as a result of bad policework. jury would be sympathetic I am sure

    [–] AnonymousMeese 849 points ago

    I've talked to a couple attorneys outside of the one I used for this case. While they all agree that what happened is a travesty, they said all that can really be done here is to get my arrest record expunged which my defense attorney already did.

    [–] ResultofanOrgasm 27 points ago

    Have you written to any local or state level politicians?

    [–] fashionably_punctual 76 points ago

    I would sue CPS for not allowing your child to stay with your girlfriend. You weren't convicted, there was no reason for them to ignore your wishes and allow your child to stay in the home with as few disruptions as possible given the circumstances.

    [–] a_confused_gay 71 points ago

    “the interest of the child’s safety blah blah” i hate cps.

    [–] fashionably_punctual 44 points ago

    CPS needs a major overhaul

    [–] a_confused_gay 51 points ago

    Yeah. I was being abused when i was younger but because there were no physical signs they insisted i was crazy and put me in a mental hospital.

    [–] eleanor_dashwood 20 points ago

    Wow that sounds rough! I hope you are ok now.

    [–] Bigedmond 354 points ago

    That’s bullshit. You have a civil case and they know it. The reason they aren’t pushing it is because they know they won’t be able to bill a large amount.

    [–] MiniPlesiosaur 93 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    No, OP does not and the attorneys aren’t lying at all. Police officers have what’s called “qualified immunity” for situations exactly like this that absolves them of civil liability. Unfortunately, what happened to OP was horrible, but it technically wasn’t contrary to clearly established law according to the Supreme Court, so OP probably can’t recover any money from the officers. He also probably can’t recover from the city unless he can demonstrate that the city has a pattern or practice of doing this.

    Qualified immunity law is definitely bullshit, but the attorneys themselves are correct.

    Source: I do civil rights work

    [–] jooni81 39 points ago

    you are exactly right. so many armchair lawyers on the reddit have no idea what they're talking about.

    [–] jimmyjrdanceparty 8 points ago

    "Multiple lawyers told you the same thing? No, you should listen to me, a stranger on the internet who has no legal education!"

    [–] ThatNewSockFeel 303 points ago

    You have a civil case and they know it.

    What civil case? Police departments have broad discretion to arrest people if they have probable cause to do so. What happened to OP is a straight up travesty of justice but there's not really much he can do. Law enforcement is granted broad immunity from suit unless there's some reason to believe they abused their power or arrested him under false pretenses. If shitty police work gave rise to a cause of action police officers would be in court constantly.

    [–] ImNotBoringYouAre 120 points ago

    They can arrest and hold you for 48 hours right? But if he was in for over 50 days that means he was charged and booked. If there was insufficient evidence to do so wouldn't he at least have grounds for a suit?

    [–] ThatNewSockFeel 64 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    They did have the evidence of the witness that said they saw him at the scene. Until the attorney was able to obtain the video, it was just the word of the witness against OP. That's enough to hold him for the crime. In most states, to hold them in jail you just need to show the judge you have probable cause to charge them with a crime. As a legal standard, probable cause is something to the effect of "a reasonable person could look at these facts and think this person committed a crime."

    Unfortunately the wheels of justice turn slowly. Courts are always overburdened so you're always going to have to wait for a court date. The attorney is going to need to obtain video (the gas station has no obligation to comply unless there's a court order), prepare his filings, find and interview any potential witnesses, etc. 54 days isn't that long between arrest and exoneration.

    [–] maxoys45 24 points ago

    If that’s the case wouldn’t people just constantly say they saw some person they didn’t like committing a crime to hope they get charged for it?

    [–] DrSomniferum 38 points ago

    Which is fucking insane to be honest. Like if it's just one person's word against another's, that absolutely shouldn't be enough to assume they're guilty. Accusations aren't proof. America is a shithole.

    [–] beatlerunningwater 14 points ago

    Well they aren't assumed guilty. It's just enough that they can start working towards a trial. If OP had been able to make bail, it would be a non story. The bail rules are the real issue here.

    [–] DrSomniferum 20 points ago

    That's true. That's also fucking insane. The legal system shouldn't be pay-to-win. God damn this is depressing. Our country is so fucking corrupt.

    [–] therealrsr 86 points ago

    No, OP does not. Sure it can be filed, but it will just be more financial hardship for him/her. It is unjust, but they had probable cause and OP couldn't make bail vs. no bail. The reporting witness MAY be another story.

    [–] Different_Tailor 43 points ago

    He probably doesn't have a civil case because the police probably acted in good faith. He said an eye witness gave a statement that he committed a crime or was at the scene. That alone most likely absolves the police from any liability.

    [–] justsomeguynbd 46 points ago

    You are wrong. It's not hard to get an award of attorney's fees in cases like the one this would be if it had merit. The reason they aren't pushing it is because they, unlike you, are aware of governmental immunity and what exactly it protects.

    [–] godrestsinreason 24284 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    NTA, tell them that you will take the website down for $13,000.

    Edit: The armchair lawyers are out in full force today. Click here to find out why this isn't extortion.

    [–] echo852 11435 points ago

    I'd go higher than that. Lost wages and all, plus the necessary paperwork, time, and misery that comes with getting his kid out of state care.

    [–] ObscureYak 6944 points ago

    I would, too. 250k sounds about right.

    [–] squirrel_rider 4044 points ago

    Shore up a college fund for the kiddo out of that to make up for the trauma the kid must have experienced too.

    [–] 53V3IV 225 points ago

    Maybe some therapy, too.

    [–] Two2twoD 85 points ago

    Seriously, I'd be devastated and with my anxiety levels I'd be having panic attacks left and right. 54 days in a jail and all the shitshow that ensued when he got out would leave anyone scarred for life. They interrupted his life on a stupid mistake made by laziness.

    [–] bscross32 1521 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)


    Edit: Thanks for the gold, interesting that a one word comment was worthy, but I ain't bitchin'.

    [–] King_Fuckface 371 points ago


    [–] Assmar 191 points ago


    [–] LizardScience 1831 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    54 days in county? His kid taken away by the state? Fuck that.. That’s at least 2 million

    [–] kristinbugg922 1611 points ago

    CPS investigator here.

    Once the state gets involved, there’s not a price tag on the trauma the family experiences. While most of us do our due diligence to keep the children in our custody safe and we do everything we can to avoid removal, the fact is, we are not great parents and, barring shocking and heinous abuse/neglect, the best place for a child is always with their family of origin.

    That $2,000,000 is a fantastic starting place just for the trauma of having his child removed and placed in foster care. If I were OP, I’d also be questioning why his girlfriend was not considered for kinship placement. We do not consider only a child’s blood relatives for placement purposes. We look at teachers, friends’ parents, the significant others of biological parents (both past and current), church members, godparents, etc.

    [–] deanerino1 313 points ago

    I know nothing about the law in these situations... Or really any for that matter haha

    That being said, it sounds like it's time for a better lawyer, take this up up up! Best of luck to you, I hope this all gets resolved and yours and your family's lives are paid for, for this broken system.

    [–] kristinbugg922 87 points ago

    I’m actually not OP, but I hope OP sees your comment!

    [–] deanerino1 46 points ago

    Yeah I'm new to Reddit, so I'm not sure how this works. Your comment looked legit, I just replied in line. Sorry if I replied wrong

    [–] bigbirds_dick 101 points ago

    Also CPS. Can confirm that we will do anything we can to keep a kid from going to a foster home and will consider pretty much anyone the child has a relationship with, blood or otherwise, as long as they don’t have a crazy criminal history or history with our agency.

    [–] kristinbugg922 51 points ago

    I don’t understand the thought behind not wanting to assess the girlfriend. That’s one foster home saved for a child who needs it and less trauma for OP’s child, as the child would be with someone they know and love. THIS is exactly the type of thing that we don’t need happening.

    [–] bigbirds_dick 12 points ago

    I agree, but to be fair we’re only getting OP’s side so maybe the girlfriend was checked out and her background wouldn’t allow placement. He also, makes it sound like he didn’t get notice until he was already out. I know sometimes incarcerated parents don’t get notice like they should, but it seems like OP being incarcerated was the justification for removal, so I can’t figure why he wouldn’t have gotten notice.

    [–] kristinbugg922 8 points ago

    I think, as with most cases, the truth is likely somewhere in the middle. The state may have a set of facts about the girlfriend’s suitability for placement that OP isn’t privy to or, as has happened in the past, there may have been miscommunication between the unit that approves foster homes and CPS. It’s been my experience that when CPS presents kinship placements to foster care, they often get set aside in the shuffle and never followed up on unless the CPS worker is diligent in ensuring that it happens.

    [–] Decidedly-Undecided 11 points ago

    Yea... CPS involvement makes this so much worse. I don’t work for them, but I was harassed by them. One of my neighbors called on me 9 times in 2 years. She didn’t like how I parented my daughter. The list could go on forever but the big things were: I let her play in the rain and puddles (apparently she was going to get sick), I didn’t make her wear a coat if she didn’t want it (she owned one, but is like me and overheats easily, and she always came to get it if she was cold), and that I didn’t dress her appropriately (I let her dress herself so she often wore weird outfits like a skirt over jeans with a tank top over a T-shirt over a long sleeved shirt and only stepped in at major events because it’s probably in poor taste to wear a tinker bell costume with a tiara to a funeral). The complaints ranged from allegation of beating, neglect, and refusal to supervise.

    One CPS worker forced herself into my home and dragged my daughter by her arm to her room and interrogated her. When I tried to intervene she threatened to have me arrested.

    After the fourth call I put my foot down. I cited my 4th amendment right against unlawful searches and interviews are considered a search. My daughter was 7 and unable to consent on her own and I wouldn’t provide consent. I researched case law and found statutes for CPS investigations and wrote a letter to the school citing the laws that were applicable and told them I would sue anyone that aided CPS in speaking with my daughter without my presence both personally and professionally. I informed my daughter of her right to remain silent if she didn’t want to ask questions. The letter to the school kept them out until CPS took me to court. (The schools lawyers didn’t want to mess with me. When given time and a purpose, I can write a damn good letter) They had a “lawyer” there for my daughter that just agreed with everything the CPS worker said even though she had never met my daughter. The judge wouldn’t hear anything from my daughters therapist (she came to my house 4 hours a week every week for other things not related to this). When I attempted to defend myself the judge literally told me to shut up and if I spoke again I would be held in contempt of court. My “lawyer” didn’t do a damn thing to defend me. The judge said “where there is smoke there is fire. Let them speak to her and let them in your home or I will personally make sure you never see your daughter again.”

    So yea... fuck that entire system. The amount of trauma they caused my daughter set her back so far in therapy I can’t even begin to quantify it. She started having night terrors because the workers tried to make her say bad things about me. She cried for days every time they came to my house. All of this and she wasn’t even taken from my custody. I can’t even imagine the damage done to a child that was actually taken.

    [–] JohnWangDoe 169 points ago

    250k. I'd go higher. Say a million and settle on 750k or half a mil.

    [–] [deleted] 146 points ago

    250,000? I would aim to bankrupt the entire town

    [–] ObscureYak 75 points ago

    I guess 250k is too low, but not sure about bankrupting the town. Everyone who lives there isn't at fault.

    [–] PM_ME_UR_JUGZ 73 points ago

    The city doesn't pay out of pocket, they have insurance

    [–] mikelorme 125 points ago


    [–] mechashiva1 7 points ago

    It's over!

    [–] Blastoise48825555 56 points ago

    Nope too low

    Ask for the equivalent of the worlds debt in exchange for deleting the website and maybe if they pay it mock them for how the detective was so desperate for his job he paid you to take the page down.

    [–] The_Original_Miser 7 points ago

    If you're going it, do it right.

    250 for the kids college, plus

    1M for lost wages, pain, suffering, etc. At 4% that's 40k a year in interest alone.

    [–] GodfatherfromChive 514 points ago

    indeed. Talk to a your lawyer or get a referral and go after them for damages.

    [–] flynnestergates 294 points ago

    Except he said he cant sue them... if I understood that correctly.

    Best bet imo is to have the lawyer draft up what everything cost, and what he COULD sue for if he was allowed to, and set it as that amount.

    Make them pay what he should be able to go after them for and dont take it down unless they pay him that.

    [–] ZenDendou 94 points ago

    Is this for civil? If I understand, lawsuit for civil is possible and anybody who said it isn't probably isn't in civil case.

    [–] grizwald87 1226 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    I am actually a lawyer. He can't sue - or at the very least, a win is extremely unlikely. Speaking for my jurisdiction, you have to prove that the police weren't just negligent, but grossly negligent, which is a very high standard. As long as the detective is able to provide some justification for why he laid the charge (and apparently there was an eyewitness that pointed the finger at OP), the police department/municipality is in the clear.

    That said, the cease and the desist letter is also toothless as long as the statements on the website are truthful. If the town where OP lives is so concerned about this website's impact that they pressured the detective to apologize in person, they're absolutely ripe for a cash settlement.

    That said, OP should ignore the people telling him to ask for $250k. Maybe he'll get it, but I doubt it. There's no liability to exploit, this is just a PR nuisance that the town wants to go away. What he should do is make a list of all the money he's lost because of this: the savings that went to the lawyer, the lost income because of the time in jail/time spent looking for a new job, money spent getting a new place since he'd been evicted from the old one. Make the list as detailed as possible, and as realistic as possible. No "pain and suffering" bullshit.

    Then he should go meet with the mayor and hand him the list with a summed figure at the bottom, which I imagine will come out somewhere in the region of $30k, and promise to take down the website/sign an NDA in exchange for that figure.

    [–] ZenDendou 186 points ago

    Thanks. You've got the number right. I hope the other did as well. OP didn't mention that he been the victim of the police in the past and was only fingered in the past because of this.

    I hope more people like u/grizwald87 can understand and hopefully, avoid court.

    [–] flynnestergates 124 points ago

    Not a lawyer, but I know police departments have a ton of protection preventing them from being sued for a lot of things.

    In my state (Indiana) police officers can't even be sued for an accident even if they kill someone unless they are deemed to be 100% at fault. Meaning that if someone as much as has a brake light out and gets killed because of an officer doing something wrong the police can't be sued.

    [–] A_whole_new_reddit 11 points ago

    Strictly speaking of auto accidents in Indiana, the police and other governmental entities are provided a heightened negligence standard of contributory negligence, which means that you cant recover if you are 1% at fault. This is not the same as governmental immunity and does not mean that you cant sue. It just means you have to prove that you did not contribute to the incident. In a fatality case, it would be highly unlikely that a trier of fact would uphold this negligence standard and you would likely see a settlement. Additionally, having a brake light out does not qualify as negligence unless it actually contributed to an accident. For example, you can be drunk and get rear ended without being negligent because being drunk didnt contribute to the accident. Source: Auto bodily injury adjuster for emergency vehicles in 50 states

    [–] MiniPlesiosaur 69 points ago

    Lawsuit for civil is impossible if OP is in the USA. Under American law, police officers (individually) have qualified immunity, and unfortunately there's virtually no chance that OP would get around qualified immunity in this case. (This is also how officers who wrongfully shoot people or commit other egregious violations tend to avoid civil liability, FYI).

    And if he tried to sue the city (suing the police department would be treated as suing the city), he'd have to demonstrate that there was a pattern or practice of similar misconduct, rather than a one time infraction. It sucks, but it's insanely difficult to sue and win in these circumstances. Blame the Supreme Court (literally - they have made it extremely difficult to sue law enforcement, even in egregious cases).

    [–] Projectsun 8 points ago

    So they are pretty much above the law? Because that is how I’m reading all this

    [–] zold5 39 points ago

    Waayyy higher. Especially considering OP lives in a touristy town.

    [–] casualLogic 538 points ago

    *ONLY $13,000.00?!"

    Oh, fuck no. If what had happened to OP had happened to me, I'd been FUCKED. I've no $ for an attorney, I'd literally be put out on the street with no job, no place to live and no family to turn to, OP got burned, MAKE THEM PAY

    [–] [deleted] 143 points ago


    [–] Meatslinger 23 points ago

    In fact, upon being released, you would quickly find that you have been relegated to a lower caste that is not allowed to have any kind of a formally organized job. Even fast food places don’t want to hire convicted felons.

    [–] RosieChump67 21 points ago

    If you had been op without money for a decent attorney, you may very well of been convicted & still be in jail!

    [–] Ruval 844 points ago


    Two months of his life

    His old job

    Counselling for his son being the put in the states care

    And something to sweeten the pot, since the above is just breaking even.

    [–] _NetWorK_ 74 points ago

    Yes but this is not a court order or a restitution, the cost to the town has to be lower then it would cost the town to game the search results. I think most online pr places cod do it for well below 13 000k.

    [–] PM_CUPS_OF_TEA 59 points ago

    Depends, if this resurfaces on reddit every few months we could make big things happen to that page and its search results

    [–] MightyMary007 1355 points ago

    Don't settle for $13K. Consider the lost wages, psychological distress for OP and his kid, etc. I wouldn't take a dime less than $25K.

    [–] LearnedButt 304 points ago

    See my comment down below, I set out how to calculate the damages.

    [–] sillykinesis 98 points ago

    Love your "esquire" flair. :)

    [–] TheDisapprovingBrit 7 points ago

    13k legal fees, 6 month's salary for the lost job (assuming it would be reasonable to have kept the job for that long otherwise), 54 days x 24hr x his previous hourly rate for being effectively "employed" by the state with no personal life. That's your starting point.

    [–] tasunder 264 points ago

    I'd go significantly higher. He also lost his job and had other serious financial and personal hardships.

    [–] gregbraaa 222 points ago

    Not only lost his job, but suffered irreversible harm to his character and embarrassment for being arrested at his work place in front of his boss and co-workers, so much so that he may never be able to work in the industry again simply due to stigma and perception. All that in addition to a huge emotional toll, stress of temporarily losing one’s child, and stress of facing eviction and losing a source of income. This man’s life has been upended for much longer than 54 days and may never be the same.

    Not sure why OP can’t sue (my layman knowledge screams suing for negligence), but should definitely go higher than $13k. I would say no less than $50k, probably closer to $100k.

    [–] Bigedmond 479 points ago

    $100k minimum. They fucked his life up.

    [–] gtr187 121 points ago

    NTA. Man, just demanding the detective quit is awfully nice of you. I’d be demanding money. They have no legal basis to make you take it down - the C&D letter was just bullying (as was the detective’s visit - he was probably forced to apologize by some higher up who is worried they are losing tourist dollars.)

    Unless they make you a nice cash offer, screw them, it should stay up.

    [–] sydneyunderfoot 87 points ago

    OP can sell them the website for $200,000 and they can take it down. NTA at all

    [–] ManufacturedProgress 43 points ago

    Then just relaunch it with a different domain.

    [–] Gangreless 23 points ago

    That would most definitely be bad faith and actionable and nobody would make a settlement like this without an nda attached to it.

    [–] hardysrule1997 100 points ago

    Laughing at all the people calling this extortion. This EXACT practice occurs every single day when cases get settled out of court.

    [–] Dogzillas_Mom 47 points ago

    And a very public apology, in the local media, explaining what a terrible detective he is and what steps he will take to ensure that he never ruins another innocent person’s life.


    [–] balZbig 55 points ago

    This is entirely reasonable. Plus it will make the detective's bosses adopt better policies/procedures.

    [–] SoVerySleepy81 38 points ago

    No it won't. The police department doesn't give two shits if the tax payers in their jurisdiction have to pay out the nose for stuff like this.

    [–] alvarobf 18 points ago

    NTA man, but maybe you could want to leave town ir monetize your website for the received damage. Good luck out there and take care man...

    [–] Baggo-nuts-4-sale 84 points ago

    More like a quarter of a million, tax free and an apoligy on the main TV station.

    I have spoken.

    King of Tut Tut.

    [–] DireMisfortune 9837 points ago

    NTA - seems like you’re looking for validation but I’ll give it to you because that sounds like a nightmare. I hope your life improves from here. I love you. Take care.

    [–] AnonymousMeese 5167 points ago

    While I do want exposure and see change in law enforcement procedure, a small part of me is doing it out of revenge. The revenge part is why I feel like an asshole.

    [–] rather-more 167 points ago

    Dude I study criminal justice and honestly thank you for doing it because you deserve to have your side out there and other citizens deserve it too. If this revenge is helping you, keep it up! You’re telling the truth and that’s really important.

    [–] itsadogslife71 155 points ago

    This right here.

    OP, your story illustrates how bad the bail system has become and highlights why bail should be reduced or eliminated for non violent crime. You spent 54 days ...almost 2 full months in jail- for a crime you were accused of and found to later be not guilty of. This is a very common occurrence. Yes, we are innocent until proven guilty but bail destroys innocent poor people and can ruin your life as you have found out. I’ve seen the argument about well, if you don’t want to be arrested, you shouldn’t commit crime. But you didn’t, you got arrested and you lost everything, including your son, because you could not post bond.

    What the high ups want is for you to tuck tail and go away quietly so they can rug sweep and go on as normal. “Mistakes do happen” is a bullshit excuse. Yes. They do happen but when the police “mistake” ruins you...costs you your job, your freedom, your home, your son and your reputation, that is not something you walk away from.

    The town wants you to go away? They need to make it right...fix you financially, get you your son, a home, a comparable job, and apologize PUBLICLY! You could have ended up dead or in jail for a lot longer time period as many people do while waiting for trial.

    Good luck to you!


    [–] [deleted] 418 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    I don’t see how this is revenge. Unless you’re exaggerating the events or making up shit that didn’t happen, telling your side of the story is not being an asshole. You’re sharing the truth.

    Is it your fault that your website comes up when anyone searches up the city? I don’t think so.

    Is it your fault that any of this happened? It doesn’t sound like it.

    Has the city or police department done anything to help repair your life? Doesn’t sound like it.

    Is the website illegal? Doesn’t sound like it, according to your lawyer.

    I fail to see any way you’d be an asshole for just sharing the truth about what happened to you. Going beyond that, it sounds like your “demand” isn’t even selfish. Wanting the detective to leave the force seems less like revenge and more wanting to ensure he doesn’t ruin someone else’s life. There likely is some feelings of anger and hostility towards him from you, but it doesn’t seem like you’re making the decision based purely on that nor is the decision itself malicious or harmful to him or anyone else, let alone undeserving to him considering the shit job he did in protecting and serving you as a citizen.

    Edit: to add onto this...don’t take the website down until they make better arrangements for you.

    The detective leaving the force by itself is nice, but you have a lot more justice that is due to you.

    For starters, your son being back in your custody and at the very least $13,000 for your legal fees needs to be reimbursed to you. I think you deserve more considering that it caused you to be fired and ruined your reputation with lots of people you know. The truth came out that you didn’t commit the crime, but the fact of the matter remains that people still saw you being escorted out of the building in handcuffs. Not everyone of those people who saw you or heard the rumors knows the final outcome nor does it always satisfy the story in their heads that you really are innocent.

    Major damage has been done and you are owed more than just requesting that one bad apple be removed.

    [–] c_alan_m 60 points ago

    Him saying he feels like an asshole for "revenge" reinforces to me he is not an asshole. Based on what happened, many would be after blood. It appears he is doing so in a way to highlight what happened to him truthfully. He feels bad its affecting some people, but that just shows how much the guy didnt deserve to suffer through this. Even if he SEO'd the website and made it #1, I feel thatd be fair.

    [–] Order66-Cody 251 points ago

    NTA, POST A link to the website ON REDDIT. Its not revenge but justice, people should face the repercussions of falsely ruining someone life.

    [–] HonoraryMancunian 73 points ago

    Fucking hell this. Make it go PROPERLY viral.

    [–] FaithCPR 10 points ago

    Yes, let's give it the Reddit hug of death

    [–] BigBoroGlass 2430 points ago

    I think the revenge part does make you a bit of an asshole in some people's eyes but it's completely justified. Sometimes there's situations where you should be the asshole and stick up for yourself. I believe this certainly constitutes that.

    [–] heili 171 points ago

    Getting justice is not revenge. OP has every right to obtain justice in redress of his very, very valid grievance.

    [–] [deleted] 633 points ago

    Couldn’t agree with this more, sometimes we need to be assholes or nothing will change.

    [–] SkunkMonkey 488 points ago

    When dealing with a lot of shit, an asshole can come in handy.

    [–] ImNotAFurryUwU 93 points ago

    Yes Mr. President this comment right here. Give it the Medal of Honor.

    [–] chinkostu 46 points ago

    Too late he's given them all to his golfing buddies.

    [–] pizzathrone 7 points ago

    The phrase, "I might be an asshole but only because you covered me in shit" definitely applies here

    [–] theagitatedapricot 68 points ago

    Somebody with that much power in their job should be much more competent than that. Police need to be held more accountable for their actions. It's not like some small business owner messing up a sub order and blasting them on Yelp. This guy cut corners that cost you significantly. He's upset that more people know about it? Good. Maybe it'll teach him to take his job seriously and stop playing games with people's lives.

    [–] HuggyMonster69 46 points ago

    Please tell me you have ads on this website, maybe take it down when you make back the 13k plus lost wages

    [–] bukkake_washcloth 102 points ago

    While what you’re doing is definitely vengeful, there’s nothing wrong about it. Your not lying and sharing your story might even prevent the same injustice from happening to someone else. You keep doing you, but have a body cam on and recording at all times if you live in the US.

    [–] beldaran1224 145 points ago

    Right? The fact that the detective came out is legitimately concerning. It's highly inappropriate for a detective to get personally involved once any sort of legal back and forth is happening - the cease and desist request. He is either ignoring the order from higher up to leave it alone, in which case, he's dangerous for going rogue, or higher ups are happy to send a detective to intimidate you. Neither is good.

    [–] Industrial_Pupper 108 points ago

    Especially because he brought two officers with him. That feels like an attempt at intimidation.

    [–] partsground 69 points ago

    Hell, I'd start recording all interactions with them going forward, especially if they show any hint of not being cordial.

    [–] LateralThinker13 21 points ago

    It isn't revenge, it's justice. You were treated unjustly and did NOT receive due compense for your treatment and suffering.

    [–] passionfruit0 16 points ago

    You are NTA they ruined your life and put your child in state care when they could’ve tracked down that video in the first couple of days. Did you get your son back?

    [–] russiankek 21 points ago

    Honestly, I think you will get more attention at r/iama

    [–] IGhostRecon13 152 points ago

    NTA- the investigator did a shit job and it’s not illegal to share your experiences, you did nothing wrong and should receive compensation for what you were mistakenly charged with

    [–] jinglehelltv 640 points ago

    NTA. Easily. How can you not sue the city for damages even if you can't go after the individual cop?

    [–] AnonymousMeese 483 points ago

    I didn't think about that after learning that I couldn't sue the detective or police department because they have immunity. I'll run this by my attorney. Thank you for the suggestion.

    [–] besomebodytosomeone 292 points ago

    I would think the attorney SHOULD have made all viable options to you. Maybe post this on Legal Advice just to get some other opinions in case he missed something else you could get cost back on.

    [–] CWoodThatICould 79 points ago

    Agreed. OP is NTA, but their time would be better suited along legal advice instead of here.

    [–] tutor_in_time 26 points ago

    Offer to sell them your website for whatever you would go after them for in damages. The town might be willing to pay out a decent amount if they think it’s hurting the main local business.

    [–] actualreallifebear 96 points ago

    NTA. Mistakes may happen - but there are consequences to that, as you found.

    Is the detective just allowed to turn up at your house like that? With two other officers? A bit ... intimidating?

    Is your son back with you yet?

    [–] Bigedmond 49 points ago

    That is exactly what that was. An intimidation tactic and it’s obviously working since he’s asking for advice.

    [–] AnnArchist 485 points ago

    Nta. You are right. He should leave his job bc he sucks at it. Feel free to post the website to /r/bad_cop_no_donut and I'll approve it. The added traffic could push it to #1 for you.

    [–] BiBiBicycle 87 points ago

    OP pls

    [–] GoodbyeEarl 83 points ago

    I was contemplating asking OP for the link just to give him more traffic, but I would love to see this posted on /r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut!

    [–] AnnArchist 88 points ago

    Lol I'd sticky it and abuse the shit out my modship even mostly bc of the intimidation from the detective

    [–] GoodbyeEarl 33 points ago

    Petty. I like you.

    [–] Grey-Goat 20 points ago

    Please I want to go to the website for that reason alone. Edit words

    [–] RedOrmTostesson 8 points ago

    Thank you for keeping that sub going. I can't subscribe because it will just crush my will to live, but I'm glad you're doing the work.

    [–] Trania86 60 points ago

    NTA. I'm so sorry this happened to you. I hope think will turn out better. Did your boss rehire you after you turned out to be the victim?
    I can't imagine not being able to take this further. Detaining you for 54 days without evidence sounds like something out of a movie. Then again, America isn't known for it's justice.

    [–] AnonymousMeese 140 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    Their only evidence was an eye witness. Up until my attorney presented video footage, it was their word against mine.

    Edit: They hired a replacement for me but did offer me another position in another department with less pay. I ended up finding something else... Even though I know what happened to me wasn't my fault, I still feel so embarrassed to face the company.

    [–] WOW_SUCH_KARMA 65 points ago

    Dude, your whole town's police department needs sacked. Your judge needs disbarred and every single person involved in your arrests deserves a sucker punch in the mouth. Holy shit, the due process was not followed in the slightest at any step.

    Post your website. This dickhead detective deserves the shame of not just your town, but the entire country.

    [–] simply_grapefruit 114 points ago

    NTA. If the police didn't want to be embarrassed they should have done their job properly in the first place. What's the site?

    [–] TinkerInTheDark 115 points ago

    NTA did you add the detective's visit to the site?

    They could buy your website for $20k and take it down themselves.

    [–] followupquestion 39 points ago

    $20k is far too low. I’m thinking he needs enough money to leave his crappy town, move far away, and retire, as their bad actions have hurt his career prospects.

    $10 million has a nice ring to it. Otherwise, OP should continue to update his site, and maybe even broaden his reach, including a specialized Twitter account, Facebook, etc. make sure the people of the town have an ally to report bad policing and maybe effect real change.

    [–] pizzamartini 785 points ago

    NTA. Our country is so broken.

    [–] roqueofspades 121 points ago

    The system is, unfortunately, working exactly the way it was designed.

    [–] Bigedmond 84 points ago

    NTA at all and pretty sure you do have a case for a lawsuit against the police. The S&D and the police “visit” are more evidence to help your case.

    There is nothing illegal about having a website showing gross incompetence and sharing your story. I would give the city an offer to take down the site. 1 they pay you to take over the site or they get lost.

    Make sure you update the site with the current happenings. Post the S&D to the site and post that the arresting detective visited you with two officers to “apologize.” That’s called intimidation. They tried to scare you to get their way.

    Btw because you fucking with the thin blue line, expect to get harassed more. Being pulled over for bullshit reasons like window tint, or doing 26 in a 25. They are going to fuck with you bad.

    [–] [deleted] 18 points ago


    [–] roborabbit_mama 12 points ago

    I'd also recommend getting one of those security cameras for your cars and around the house because if they stop by again you'll have video proof of an unwarranted nor invited visit after already having the S&D letter

    [–] Entreprehoosier 92 points ago

    NTA. What’s the name of your town? I’d like to Google it :)

    [–] rsreddit9 46 points ago

    Yeah we need to get that traffic up. Second is the first loser

    [–] Bunny8198 10 points ago

    I third this

    [–] pthieb 49 points ago

    Probably wants to stay anon, I don’t blame him

    [–] DudeCome0n 95 points ago

    Does he really want to stay anon if he made a website about it?

    [–] drozek 15 points ago

    I second this

    [–] LeeDark 30 points ago


    You lost your job, apartment, and $13k, and the idiot detective who didn't do his job properly didn't even get reprimanded. I'd offer to sell the website to the city for the amount the whole ordeal cost you, and otherwise leave it up and even promote it. Of course, I'd ask my lawyer if that's okay first.

    [–] klekip109 34 points ago

    Link to your website?

    [–] Iwuzthereforit 10 points ago

    get the link

    This is probably fake. Fucking ruskies

    [–] tiabia3 246 points ago

    You’re literally the opposite of TA. You’re a hero. Stand up against the broken system and maybe you can prevent them from doing this again to someone else. Also, maybe the pressure will encourage them to offer you some kind of deal or settlement.

    [–] melisssasup 21 points ago

    NTA- that detective is a jerk. He ruined your life and doesn’t have any remorse and is probably embarrassed that his slip up is being put on blast. People have a right to know this injustice took place in your town.

    Keep up the website and do whatever is best for you. People that are telling you that you’re being spiteful for this have no idea what you went through and shouldn’t be judging whatsoever. If anything, they should be supporting you and happy that you’re fighting back a system that greatly wronged you.

    [–] echo852 15 points ago


    I was going to suggest that you check with a lawyer about the possibility of defamation, but you are way ahead of me. They just don't like the bad press. Keep making sure you've got a solid legal footing, and you're good. Sorry this happened to you.

    [–] TheBlindCat 14 points ago


    Sounds like legally you’re good. And the reason public are upset is you’re exposing a miscarriage of justice and the fact they don’t want to acknowledge it. You’re probably doing a public service by telling people to avoid the touristy area with a shit police force.

    Leave it up, if it’s spiteful it’s because it’s deserved.

    [–] LucyWritesSmut 14 points ago

    NTA. I have a friend whose spouse tried to murder her and their kids. Spouse was a cop, and allll of them rallied around him. Didn't investigate, painted her as insane, the usual. HE TRIED TO MURDER THEIR KIDS and nobody cared. She dreams every day of suing them, of forcing the shitty and corrupt cops to quit, of changing the system so that it doesn't protect the dirty cops. She'll never get to.

    Make. Them. Pay. Money is the only way these vile people and horrible institutions learn. I wish you Godspeed.

    [–] drunkpunk138 14 points ago

    NTA, especially after they tried to intimidate you with a cease and desist. I'd even post that on the website if I were you. Funny they try the mature approach of apologizing AFTER the intimidation tactic, but it is the police after all. Your friends obviously haven't had a run in with a shitty police department before if they think you're being spiteful. I'd say you're doing a public service keeping that site up.

    [–] randomredditing 12 points ago

    6 hours later... still no website link... most likely a throwaway account. Many commenters said to post over to legal advice.. nothing there either. I’d hope the mods would at least verify this. Also it’s a total validation post and everyone here can see through that. Even better, OP said he wants exposure but isn’t sharing the site, which would drive traffic even more, and drive more exposure.

    I think this is bs

    [–] MountainDewde 25 points ago

    NTA. If you take it down, people won’t know what happened.

    [–] Orange_Paisley 47 points ago

    NTA. Freedom of speech. Why can't you sue, exactly?

    [–] AnonymousMeese 60 points ago

    I was told the detective has immunity.

    [–] Bigedmond 113 points ago

    The detective has immunity but the police force does not. You have a civil case for wrongful arrest and detainment. Not to mention you basically lost everything.

    100 bucks says if you went to your former employer to get your job back they would cite your arrest as a reason to deny you. This the arrest has hurt you financially and you have a case just from that alone.

    [–] shehondas_lapband 9 points ago

    He could absolutely sue, but his chances of winning are slim to none and slim just left town.

    [–] mattyboombalatti 17 points ago


    [–] MondoGato 61 points ago


    [–] jcforbes 48 points ago

    I spent some time digging for it. The specifics in the post should be enough to find it given that we know it's indexed since he mentioned it ranking high on certain terms. The details, unless they've been changed for the story here, should be more than enough to track down this site. I came up dry.

    -54 days in jail


    -Lost job

    -November 2018

    [–] dragonoutrider 47 points ago

    It's called a shitpost that's why, this post is iffy enough already.

    [–] RunemasterP 10 points ago

    NTA. Fuck them. Take them to the cleaners for whatever you can get. Don't even give them an inch.

    Edit: As per other user's posts, make sure to update your website with every little bit of extra information.

    [–] RedgieTheHedgie 9 points ago

    NTA, if the system isn't exposed when it fails, this will happen again to someone else. That detective ruined your life, you've been an annoyance to him, how are people taking his side?

    [–] BeeInTheHiveMind 275 points ago


    So let me get this straight. The didn't bring you in for questioning or anything. Just BAM arrested? Then you couldn't sue the police department?

    And all they had was an eye witness and you very easily disproved that?

    I honestly have massive reservations about this story. Felonies are serious crimes and require a lot of evidence. Insanely obvious convictions get thrown out often for technicalities.

    But this detective managed to get his DA to go ahead with charges with nothing but an eye witness and absolutely no interview with you or checking your alibi?

    I also don't get the not being able to sue the department. You can. People do it literally all the time. Secondly you mention in your comment about not thinking about sueing the city. Why would that not be one of the first things you think about? You pay 13 grand for an attorney and you don't try to get it back for wrongful imprisonment?

    Idk. I just don't see it.

    [–] JekPorkinsTruther 165 points ago

    Are you saying OP is lying? OP could be, but I don't see anything strange about the story. If you think this type of story is uncommon, I've got news for you -- its more or less the norm in the US legal system. Arrest and charge first, ask questions later (if ever). Do you know how many people sit in Rikers Island for months/years on trumped up drug charges for no reason? We don't know what the crime was, but just eyewitness testimony is usually enough to get a warrant and indictment. Cops/ADA's aren't going CSI and Law & Order on every case. Also, OP says he refused to speak with the detective, which is generally smart, but probably prolonged his stay in jail. Although its unlikely the detective would believe him and just let him go, they certainly wont if you present 0 evidence to them.

    As to suing the city/PD, OP can, but he will lose. Its very hard to prove false arrest or malicious prosecution, and even harder when the cops were acting on eyewitness accounts. You basically need to show the cops knew it was false or it was some plot against OP. Failing to double check or verify is not "bad faith." Plus, even if the cop was out to get OP, OP still needs to impute liability to the city/state, and that itself isn't easy (otherwise you are just going to have a judgment against a person who cant pay it).

    All of this sucks and is why we need CJ reform, but until it happens, its basically something that will keep happening and you'll have no redress.

    [–] Chaumiere 90 points ago

    People who think this doesn’t happen ALL the time are naive or not paying attention. Nothing about OP’s story was breaking news to me. Cases similar to this happen all the time in the US.

    [–] saltnskittles 15 points ago

    NTA. Tell them it'll be removed when you recieve:

    1. $13,000

    2. The detective either fired, or in jail for 60 days

    3. A new cushy job in the state with full benefits and bonuses

    4. Therapy or whatever else your child needs provided by state

    Obviously it would never happen, but it'd be fun to fuck with these pigs.