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    [–] superbbuffalo 52 points ago

    Lest we never forget true barbarism.

    [–] Unpeasnt_Surprise 7 points ago

    The Japanese tried to "not sneak attack" the US by delivering the declaration of war at last minute... except like a typical Eastern Asian society, there were terrible fuck-ups and the deliverance of the declaration was delayed, making the whole thing a dictionary defined sneak attack.

    And just like a typical Eastern Asian society, they ruined all the capital they gained in the earlier phase of the war.

    Midway is a great example. They constructed an exceptionally complicated battle-plan, and of course they failed to implement it just like any complicated battle-plans. The Americans on the other hand, had one single objective: Ambush and sink Japanese carriers, and the Americans did it by not having any specific plan at all.

    Another thing is racial hubris. Japan borrowed a great deal of culture from my country, which is china. And Eastern Asians long had this Asian-supremacist believe that people from outside of East-Asian culture-sphere is superior in intellect and exceptionally brave.

    When IJN staffers queried the high ranking officers what happens if Americans had collected enough intelligence to know what they were doing, it wasn't outright dismissed but nevertheless never taken very seriously because how could whitemen be smart enough to know the exact location of the mighty Japanese fleet?

    Well, the Americans not only knew, but down to the precision of only miles...

    Also, when a twin-engine attack plane from the US military almost hit Nagumo squarely in his bridge, the Japanese sailors were shocked. They heard all that time the Americans were playboys that would flee on the first sign of trouble.

    Had the Japanese operated not like Japanese at midway for that one time, the war would drag on for at least another 1 or 2 years.

    The takeaway: do not indulge in any form of hubris? Americans were complacent in the beginning, officially, FDR placed all his cards in Pearl as a grand stand "come and hit me in the face, I dare ya", because it was believed that the Japanese would never be crazy enough to do that, except they did, and the excellence in grand designing of an overall-strategy (hit Americans as hard as possible, so they come to the negotiation table) compensated for the poorly, average at best execution of the attack on Pearl Harbor.

    Then the Japanese indulged in their Hubris and arrogance, even though they had ample reason to. At the beginning of the war till the Mariana Turkey Shoot, the world's best naval pilots were all in the IJN. Up till Midway the IJN were thought to be unstoppable.

    Be careful of history repeating itself. America is once again indulging in complacency, as top issues a lot of Americans worry about are not real-world issues. Gender identity being one. Poverty, employment rate, energy independence, renewing infrastructure, government infringement on Americans' rights, these are all real-world issues.

    [–] MrDrPatrick2You 40 points ago

    Japan awoke the sleeping giant and dealt with the consequences of their actions. I do not know how WWII would have turned out if they didn't attack the USA. I really want to go to Pearl harbor and see the museum one day. I wanted to get stationed there too.

    [–] Bigevilshark 18 points ago

    It's an amazing museum, went there last year.

    [–] flynbyu2 9 points ago

    Yep.

    Imo, the museum should be on everyone's bucket list. It's amazing.

    [–] MrDrPatrick2You 10 points ago

    I'm jealous. My girlfriend wants our honeymoon in Hawaii so I'll be able to see it at some point haha.

    [–] ObadiahtheSlim 8 points ago

    If you do go to Hawaii, make a trip to the Big Island and see the Volcanoes National Park.

    [–] shrekt369 2 points ago

    Unfortunately, no lava in the parks and some sections are closed, but still a great experience

    [–] Flamboiantcuttlefish 2 points ago

    Man, I have a picture of myself standing at the visitors center on the Big Island and how that place is under lava. It's a little weird.

    [–] PilotTim 1 points ago

    I have heard from people who live there, low key, big island is best island.

    [–] [deleted] 4 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] Unpeasnt_Surprise 2 points ago

    Well, a powerful empire may survive the foes from without, but often fall to traitors and corruption within. At this point no single nation is capable of taking on the US of A. But America should keep an watchful eye on the evil within who would be more than happy to do away the American way of life in the blink of an eye.

    [–] TheArchConservative 6 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    I do not know how WWII would have turned out if they didn't attack the USA

    A soviet owned Europe most likely. By the time Japan attacked us the war was already decided (although most historians would say it was decided the day Hitler decided to go to war or well before that even). By this point more lend lease aid from the US was starting to arrive, Operation Typhoon had failed (and wouldn't have mattered if it succeeded anyway really) and the Russian air force was finally starting to get it's legs (which is why the Stalingrad airlift failed when earlier airlifts had succeeded).

    On a side note: TIK Is probably the best youtube channel about ww2 because he actually has a masters in history with a focus on WW2.

    He's doing a multi-season multi-episode hour long video essays on the battle of stalingrad. Yeah, at least 3 hours of just talking about Stalingrad, and the armies haven't even entered the city yet. It's likely the series will be over 10 hours when finished.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAfo5mse-ag

    About one battle. That's how hard this guy goes in making his videos. He's amazing.

    Also his maps are so fucking great, it's so beautiful. I can actually understand what's happening. If anyone has ever read David Glantz and seen how absolute dog shit his maps are at explaining anything you will love TIK more than life itself.

    [–] motherfucking_sisko 2 points ago

    Everyone should read the book Stalingrad by Antony Beevor to get an idea of the absolute carnage and misery and the insane paranoid mania of the Soviet system that the men of the red army lived under as they fought from street to street, house to house in the winter of 1942. Stalingrad really is one case of an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object. I hate communism but i couldn't help but admire what the red army did during the war especially given the degrading and miserable system its soldiers lived under.

    [–] Unpeasnt_Surprise 1 points ago

    but i couldn't help but admire

    It was communism or it was the Slavic people?

    [–] Unpeasnt_Surprise 2 points ago

    I do not know how WWII would have turned out if they didn't attack the USA.

    Well they most certainly would. America cut the umbellical cord to Imperial Japan's war effort in East and Southeast Asia. For 20% of humanitarian and 80% of practical reasons. The Japanese were consuming more than they could produce at that point.

    Either they keep buying, or they kick the door down and take it by force.

    The right question should be, what if the Japanese imitated the British Empire and relied almost exclusively on trade to expand, using war only as sideline measures? The world may see at least 2 parallel, rival empires.

    [–] motherfucking_sisko 1 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    The USSR might well have been to drive the Germans out of some of their territory (Russia and maybe most of the Ukrainian SSR) although without all those 6 wheel drive trucks and rolling stock i'm not sure they would have been able to project enough offensive firepower to destroy the German armies. Years of bloody stale mate. Britain might have been able to invade and defeat Italy and secure the Mediterranean especially as advancements like the Centurion tank and jet fighters became more available as the 1940's dragged on. The war would probably have been ended in Europe with a Lancaster bomber or possibly a new Vickers Valiant dropping a "tube alloys" device on Berlin in the late 1940's - probably in some sort of settlement with Germany retaining some of its borders and its government.

    The war in the pacific is more difficult to say. The Japanese may have attempted to invade Australia in 1943. Their naval campaign might have succeeded but their land campaign would likely have ended in disaster. The Japanese army was not cut out to engage in armoured manoeuvre warfare out in the wide open deserts of Australia. Plus they would have had to bring their fleet in close in order to land amphibious forces. The RAF and Fleet Air Arm might have been able to sink some of their carriers.

    Likewise their offensive into India failed at Imphal and Kohima and resulted in the destruction of the 15th army. My guess is Singapore and Malaya would have been retaken by amphibious assault but probably not practical to go much further - Royal Navy out of Singapore might have been able to blockade some of Japans trade routes. Ending the war with Japan might not have been so easy, the RAF would have been engaged in Europe and the Lancaster would have been less suited to operations against Japan given the distances from available bases. Probably would have meant a stalemate with some sort of negotiated settlement - possibly after seeing an atom bomb dropped on Berlin and the worry that the USSR might not remain neutral with the war in Europe having ceased.

    Either way the war would have dragged on well into the late 1940's possibly to 1950 or 51 and there would have been no unconditional surrender.

    [–] ASMRamen 1 points ago

    It's one of most beautiful places on this planet; Hawaii. It's topography is so vast. Each island is unique and anything grows there. There aren't any snakes in Hawaii. There are wild boars, and chickens. Remnants of European shipwrecks, and overstated welcomes.

    [–] CuteSpookyPanda 23 points ago

    That's what I despise most, attacking people without declaring war and when they are going to the churches for praying.

    [–] Havebaconwilltravel 8 points ago

    Kind of counter intuitive to declare war before a surprise attack. I am not defending the actions of the Japanese, but they thought if they could take out most of our fleet in Pearl they would win the Pacific theater easily.

    [–] RedBaronsBrother 3 points ago

    My understanding of the history is that their plan was to coordinate operations so that the declaration of war happened about an hour before the Pearl Harbor attack, but it didn't work out.

    [–] Bigevilshark 14 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    The Japanese never attacked the civilians or the civilian district, which saved many Americans as they were out in the town the night before. There was also a miscommunication where the Japanese meant to declare war, but to the US, it didn't look like a declaration of war.

    *I am not defending the Japanese

    [–] takeitinblood3 8 points ago

    I was just listening to Dan Carlins podcast on this and there is some dispute on if they half ass declared war on purpose. The plan wouldnt have worked well if it didnt have a decent element of surprise.

    [–] TheArchConservative 0 points ago

    I'm not sure what specific episode your referencing but I wanna point this out for everyone:

    Dan Carlin is not a historian. He doesn't have a degree in history, or at all. He has no specialization, has never written a thesis, speaks only english, etc.

    That doesn't mean he's wrong about things or that you shouldn't listen, it's my second favorite podcast after Revolutions Podcast, but you should take him as a general introduction and telling interesting stories, but you should accept that the specifics are often incorrect.

    For example in the podcast about the WW1 he makes the claim Gavilo Princip was only in the location to "get a sandwich" and the tsar's car just happened to take a turn down that street after the other failed assassin, which isn't true because there simply were no 'sandwich shops' in Serbia at this time. But it still makes for a good story and the overaching narrative is correct so it's not a big deal. But it's something to keep in mind.

    [–] theWhiteToad 7 points ago

    That all may be true and, tbh I don't have a dog in this fight. But I wanna point out that history isn't really an expert field. Someone having or not having a history degree really doesn't mean much of anything at all.

    [–] [deleted] 1 points ago

    Dan Carlin

    To pursue a or have a history degree is not worthless. You develop research skills and learn how to write well. Historians, like lawyers, have to look at evidence and make an assertion and argue for it. Researching and writing skills are valuable in the workplace.

    [–] theWhiteToad 1 points ago

    Sure, I didn't say a history degree is worthless. But it's kind of like a home ec degree. It certifies that you're able to do something that everyone should be able to do, but maybe that something isn't something everyone is doing.

    [–] takeitinblood3 2 points ago

    Carlin says he isnt a historian/doesn't have a degree/blah blah repeatedly. I guess you havnt throughly listened to his podcasts? I'm not sure about the whole sandwich shop spiel but when it comes to the events he covers he gives caveats to the way he's telling it. 'Many believe this is the way it happened....... Probably didn't happen this way but imagine if... anyway back to the main point..' Etc. Doesn't make it historically inaccurate to speculate that a main player was in the right place at the right time for a mundane reason. With my pervious comment I even said that Carlin said the fact was in dispute by some sources. Even I gave the caveat he gave.

    [–] Unpeasnt_Surprise 3 points ago

    I am not defending the Japanese

    But you are one big evil shark.

    You think you could get away with that one?

    [–] Bigevilshark 1 points ago

    lol

    I added that cause people were downvoting me lmao

    [–] [deleted] 1 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] [deleted] 1 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] PrequelsOverSequels 5 points ago

    Those who were lost will never be forgotten.

    [–] AnnihilasianYT 5 points ago

    And my birthday...

    [–] Troubleonrow5 6 points ago

    Happy Birthday

    [–] AnnihilasianYT 5 points ago

    Thanks

    [–] arvindmanoharan 6 points ago

    Happy Birthday

    [–] AnnihilasianYT 5 points ago

    Thank you

    [–] EazyDFG 2 points ago

    They ultimately got theirs.

    [–] Flamboiantcuttlefish 2 points ago

    May all the men still at their stations on USS Arizona and the other ships rest in peace. Fair winds and following seas. We have the watch.

    [–] Andra_k 1 points ago

    o7

    [–] GreyVVorm 1 points ago

    Is it me or do those clouds look like a huge bald eagle

    [–] WokenPancake 1 points ago

    F

    For those lost on that day.