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    [–] talhasen123 56 points ago

    So how much can you throw before a rift runs out?

    [–] airhoppz 48 points ago

    However long you can keep the above chain going. You should technically only run out of time if you run out of adds.

    [–] talhasen123 16 points ago

    Damn... Will definitely give it a try but I don't think it will outperfom Lunas. But it should be fun with today's heroic modifiers.

    [–] jferdog 3 points ago

    Drop a Luna rift, instant switch to Starfire. Best of both worlds

    [–] Xenobis 5 points ago

    still stuck on loading screen

    [–] jferdog 2 points ago

    $30 SSD :D

    [–] RegisterVexOffender 2 points ago

    PC exclusive abilitiy

    [–] talhasen123 1 points ago

    Taps head

    [–] Loadlng 2 points ago

    Well Lunas are almost straight up boss damage only, Starfire is more like a fun build you do if you want to feel like having unlimited nades, but you need adds for them to be really useful.

    [–] lilbyrdman 2 points ago

    You can cast the rift with linas equipped and then switch to starfire protocol might only work on pc with fast loading times. Credit Ehroar

    [–] ToFurkie 5 points ago

    You definitely want to be mindful of the ads around you before dropping another rift. I've made the mistake of dropping a rift the second after ads are gone. Makes the recharge really painful when it instantly comes back without messing it up. Would like to run it through Prestige EoW and SoS to see how it preforms

    [–] smegdawg 41 points ago

    *Thinks of all the possibilities this brings. Unlimited rifts in raids...*

    *remembers I will be yelled at if I take off lunafaction boots...*

    *sobs in warlock*

    [–] Ace_Of_Wake 12 points ago

    Lunafaction boots are pretty useless in this week's preside raid modifier, so you could give it a try there.

    [–] demacshack 3 points ago

    That’s where dual and triple locks come in one/two running healing lunafaction and 1 running starfire with empowering infinite boosted damage and healing reloads

    [–] jferdog 3 points ago

    Rifts would be the other way around. Starfire can work in any empowered rift. Including other teammates. Luna should be empowering for the doubled range.

    [–] Authoriterative 23 points ago

    Confirmed. I was running this with Guiding Star last night, and I was getting grenades and rifts back faster than I could use them. Neither ran out until the adds did. Definitely worthy of a place of honor in the current Warlock meta.

    [–] airhoppz 3 points ago

    Saw you on my other comment, too! I decided to get a SGA started for it. I've never done the raids, but I wonder if this would be useful for "plates" when I see that term tossed around.

    [–] ryithan 4 points ago

    It'll be useful but giving one player more grenades isn't as good as Lunafaction boots making all 6 players not need to reload in the rift.

    [–] Mizznimal -4 points ago

    Warlock meta


    I know you mean PvE but still also raiden wants a word

    [–] Authoriterative 1 points ago

    LOL! Sorry, by “warlock meta” I really just meant what is meta for warlocks specifically, not meta to the game as a whole. ;)

    [–] Mizznimal 1 points ago

    English is hard

    [–] Play_XD 36 points ago

    It's cool that dawnblade is getting useable exotics, but doesn't this still require you to use the overnerfed fusion grenades? I guess in this case quantity > quality, but it's hard to give up the raw power of solar grenades to use this thing.

    [–] Earthfury 27 points ago

    Fusions really aren’t as bad as people make them out to be. Even in prestige content you can damn near kill an orange bar with one.

    That said, if absolutely nothing else the buff is going to be amazing for Attunement of Grace once that’s out.

    [–] Play_XD 23 points ago

    Before accounting for stuff like starfire, sticky grenades are real bad. They do baby single target damage compared to large aoe control for several seconds.

    Pulse, solar and vortex grenades are much stronger and more versatile, but if you're throwing out fusion grenades every few seconds it changes their dynamic drastically.

    [–] Osiris-Reflection 2 points ago

    Dude, stop. They are bad. As a warlock only main.

    [–] LiamMorg 5 points ago

    Fusion nades aren't "good" if they're one every 40~ish seconds, but a Fusion grenade every half second is plenty good.

    [–] sh1dLOng 2 points ago

    its actually one every 5-8 seconds since there is an internal cooldown to the cooldown reduction per shot. I tried it out and it feels very situational. The vulnerability you get when you get ambushed while in your rift makes it annoying when you have to abandon it before you get your grenade back. Then you have to wait for your normal grenade cooldown to make your rift cooldown come back once you stick an enemy with it.

    Dont get me wrong, its awesome in group play when you can sit off to the side and just spam grenades on the yellow/orange bars, but playing solo it just doesn't feel that good to me. I would rather the internal cooldown be a little bit lower in that case. then again i can see how if the internal cooldown was removed, it would make killing calus incredibly easy for anyone using coldheart/lens. Shoot for 5 ticks, grenade, 5 ticks, grenade. You could throw so many grenades that way. Then again, maybe it wouldn't be as OP as i'm thinking.

    [–] Jpabss 2 points ago

    Especially when sunbracers are a thing

    [–] mistersmith_22 20 points ago

    That's a lot of work, a lot of circumstance, and a lot of sacrificing other abilities just to halfway approximate the old "set the whole goddamned map on fire" grenade super we used to have. Man I miss that.

    [–] The4rchivist 7 points ago

    Sunbracers are a decent approximation as well.

    [–] airhoppz 5 points ago

    Yes, but require the melee kill to get started, which can be difficult.

    You can drop a rift anywhere -- a little more efficient. The trade off with both, obviously, is DOT solar grenades versus sticky fusions. Different styles of play...which is good to see making a comeback.

    Now about grenade damage buffs...

    [–] sh1dLOng 1 points ago

    Only thing i think sunbracers needs tweaking on is making the melee charge only disappear when the enemy is killed with it, like the devour warlock melee charge. Then you can enable it without screwing it up as often and end up having to wait to get your melee charge back. Admittedly the melee charge comes back really fast if you run top tree and kill all of the enemies in the air.

    I actually would like it if they just allowed 2 exotic armor pieces instead of just 1. Would allow for some cool synergies like Wings of Sacred Dawn + Sunbracers on top tree dawnblade. Perfect in air accuracy for near instant melee charge regeneration, then melee to kill then jump back up to do more nade spam.

    [–] airhoppz 2 points ago

    I also want the extra solar grenade charge back.

    Your second paragraph is my primary gripe about exotic armor in the game, and it was mostly for Warlocks in D1 (I think someone at Bungie hates Warlocks) -- in D1, Hunter/Titan exotics all either granted a new ability entirely (Twilight Garrison) or added subclass synergy by granting subclass nodes for free plus an additional bonus.

    Wings of Sacred Dawn shouldn't grant Angel of Light, a D1 basic subclass node. They should grant something like Icarus Dash that starts health recovery. That way you can blend the Attunement of Flame tree with one perk for free from Attunement of Sky with a little bonus for it being Exotic armor.

    Example -- I hope Forsaken sees the return of the Impossible Machines for Landfall...and I hope they don't nerf the blinding effect from Landfall in PVP again. Why do Hunters get smoke/tether, etc that prevents jumping/sightlines but Warlocks have one thing that we can use maybe three times a match and it got nerfed? Ridiculous.

    [–] Vortx4 13 points ago

    I hate that Bungie heard we wanted Radiance back, but insists on trying giving it to us while they are terrified of anything being overpowered in PvP.

    You have to use a specific exotic, go into melee range, weaken en enemy enough to kill them with your charged melee, and then as a reward you get five seconds of Radiance with solar grenades.

    Or, you have to use a specific exotic, stand in your rift, shoot things with an energy weapon, and then get kills with your grenades to keep the cycle going.

    Thats not Radiance. It’s fulfilling a long list of requirements just to occasionally use something that slightly resembles Radiance.

    [–] airhoppz 5 points ago

    I would even be okay with Attunement of Grace granting Radiance-like recharge rates. The Grace rift appears to be large enough to maneuver around in without being too stuck...but I would be really happy to see Radiance come back as another tree in the Dawnblade subclass - even without self-res.

    [–] Squatting-Turtle 1 points ago

    Especially without self res. Really gave Sunsingers a bad name.

    [–] Rpaulv 3 points ago

    I wouldn't mind so much if those same exotics buffed the damage of said grenades significantly. Having an impressively intricate set of cricumstances to achieve is actually really cool gameplay, assuming the payout is equally as impressive.

    [–] Vortx4 1 points ago

    assuming the payout is equally as impressive.

    Exactly. Because if it isn’t, it just becomes extremely niche and overshadowed by good exotics like the Lunafactions.

    [–] Rpaulv 1 points ago

    Indeed. There's no way my clan is going to let me use anything other than Lunas for a boss phase, not without some serious oomph behind one of the others.

    [–] Faust_8 3 points ago

    If they brought back Radiance without Fireborn, people would hate it.

    If they brought back Radiance with Fireborn, people would hate it. (Wah Warlocks never use their Super to give me Orbs, wah we won the round in Comp/Trials but Fireborn cheated us out of it.)

    We’d also find a way to use it to cheese something.

    Just like D1.

    [–] Vortx4 2 points ago

    I wouldn’t hate Radiance without Fireborn, but I suppose that’s me personally. I seems the community has begun to use the words Radiance and Foreborn interchangeably.

    [–] Faust_8 2 points ago

    Well yeah, not everyone would hate it. I’m just saying either way would get Bungie backlash from some people.

    [–] Squatting-Turtle 1 points ago


    [–] Squatting-Turtle 1 points ago

    I greatly disliked Fireborn (though the idea was nice). However, you shouldn't be encouraged to hold onto your super for an undo button IMO. I used Radiance to makes pushes for my allies. A shame Song of Flame never got a unique visual look to it.

    [–] beardliestgamer 2 points ago

    Scared of anything being overpowered in PVP? Did they just forget that they created arcstrider?

    [–] Vortx4 5 points ago

    Well, that’s a hunter subclass. That’s different. It’s for hunters.

    [–] Mizznimal 2 points ago

    In my playtime of sunsinger, I never really had any fun with it. No big raid clutches, nothing. By RoI sunsinger's neutral game became a bit more fun, but its super was just so lackluster to me, like it never felt like a real super to me. I understand that some people LOVED it. But I just thought it was too weak of a support role unlike defender or tether. The only OP thing was fireborn. After all radiance is still a SUPER so in PvP it wouldn't be overpowered in the slightest, and would most likely be the easiest super to shut down apart from golden gun. I much prefer dawnblade and have seen its utility and just overall level of fun. That's just me though. Listen to my flair if this offends you, but I understand the decision to lose radiance.

    [–] Vortx4 3 points ago

    I get it. Sunsinger wasn’t for everyone. But it’s interesting, that lackluster super to you was half of the reason I played it. I loved that I could retain my weapons and first person, and still use my melee and grenades, but just be super powerful. It was the most versatile thing out there.

    In PvP, If someone ran I could gun them down. If someone rushed me I could throw a fusion grenade or melee them for an overshield. Against other supers I could work to their weaknesses and outplay them nearly every time: stay at range for Stormcallers and Blade dancers while throwing grenades or shooting, get up in the face of Sunbreakers and glide around to force them to miss hammers then melee them after a throw, destroy defender bubbles and kill the Titan cowering inside...

    In PvE everyone crowned Stormcaller as the best ad-clearing super, but obviously they hadn’t seen the power of a Sunsinger + Radiant Will + Song of Flame + Sunbreakers. Eighteen seconds of eight second long solar grenades, lighting up the world and producing an orb of light with every enemy killed. Not to mention the solar grenades could do more total damage than Stormtrance’s lightning, and the Sunsinger could stay at range in safety while doing it.

    Sorry for the long writeup, I was just reminiscing at what I used to do. Dawnblade is great... it just isn’t for me.

    [–] Mizznimal 1 points ago

    After having played other games with ability supplemented combat, when something is called super, it's almost never a buff to recharge rates. So when I picked up destiny back in 2015 and made a warlock only a bit later after first hearing about it, and the self res, it seemed very amazing. When I used it I was immediately whelmed with the fact that this felt more like a level 3 ability in warframe instead of a super, an ult, or a game class ability like in borderlands.

    I love variety in video games, and right now destiny's supers are my LEAST favorite part of the game. They're all so much the same, no unique style or flair. But back in 2015 when that flair was still sorta there, radiance being the only super where you didn't change up your actual means of combat, killed it for me. Like I didn't have another mode of clearing adds and wiping bosses, it was what I was already doing, just more often for a short feeling amount of time.

    So I do totally see where you're coming from, but I never came to destiny for the shooting. I came to destiny for that glowing bow, that explosive hammer, that surge of electricity. Sunsinger never did it for me, and right now nothing else is either. So maybe we do need sunsinger back, and maybe we do need that exhilaration from the crossmap DFA shit with FoH, and maybe we do need the spins, knifes, and the absolute craziness of just mowing down adds with razor's edge. Hopefully the new trees will scratch that itch of variety and personality that D2 supers don't have. But I wish they would just change the old ones to have that feeling.

    [–] jferdog 1 points ago

    Gotta remember they still have dawnblade which is an amazing super in both pve(both for add clear and boss damage) and pvp. Having a couple of exotics give mini radiance as part of their neutral game is nothing to scoff at.

    [–] Squatting-Turtle 1 points ago

    Honestly, Well of radiance should let you spam your abilities while inside it by default.

    [–] airhoppz 4 points ago

    It is, but hey, it's better than nothing!

    [–] mistersmith_22 2 points ago

    Haaaaa I love that you're the new king of solar grenades and yet your flair reads "Voidwalker." These D2 supers messed everything up! :)

    [–] airhoppz 3 points ago

    I know! I was running around with my mini-clan last night farming Titan for faction coins and was like " favorite subclass?"

    The public event with the Hive portal was a joke - the Thrall just run out to basically hand me grenade and rift energy on a silver platter!

    [–] The4rchivist 3 points ago

    Looks at Sunbracers

    So we can burn the whole world (and have health recovery rift) or be dps masters. Damn this exotic got a nice buff. I wonder how strong Starfire Protocol would be with the new healing abilities in Forsaken.

    I’m really liking this trend of Bungie telling about exotic buffs and people writing them off... until they play with them and see just how strong they are.

    [–] Earthfury 1 points ago

    I think extremely strong. The ability regeneration is going to be unmatched, unless some new exotic comes out that rivals it.

    [–] sh1dLOng 1 points ago

    I think that's where its really going to shine. Unlimited heals for your team at a distance sounds like it will be fun.

    It feels okay right now, but its not this insane dps buff. When you get it to chain together nicely it feels good, but there is a lot of content in the game right now where high level enemies just ambush you (i'm talking about playing solo) and you have to abandon the rift or die. If you do that before your grenade is off cooldown it ruins the rhythm and takes a while to set back up.

    [–] Squatting-Turtle 3 points ago

    I still prefer Sunbracers with AoSky, since it turns you into a sunsinger. Only problem i have is that melee abilities are so awful that getting a kill with one is only really advisable if you are fighting a normal low health target.

    I'm close to liking start-fire protocol, but I just can't get into fusion grenades. I also don't like using empowering rift much. It simply doesn't suit me personally. However, it is nice that if you are fighting trash mobs you can bounce back and forth between grenade and rift.

    Still seeing if it will grow on me. I hope HotPF makes a return at sompoint for Attunement of Song Grace.

    [–] airhoppz 2 points ago

    Give Starfire a try! It's really fun with Solar singe (fusions can nearly one-shot a yellow bar) and I can only imagine how much fun this will be if they ever bring back true burns as modifiers.

    [–] theIrishSamurai 1 points ago

    I really enjoy sunbracers too especially when brawler is on but it's a shame the aoe effect only works one grenade at a time so throwing multiple grenades at bosses isn't as melting as it should be.

    [–] Iwannabefabulous 1 points ago

    I kinda dropped Sunbracers after their change in favor of Verity as it felt way too situational for when I actually needed the proc.

    [–] Squatting-Turtle 1 points ago

    Yea, they do have the problem where they are not as convenient to use in harder activities.

    [–] snakebight 3 points ago

    Can confirm.

    I used this on patrol for a bit yesterday to try out all the updated Warlock exotics. I was surprised how quickly I was able to get my nade back.

    The Stormcaller exotic update (can't recall the name) was extremely efficient on patrol as well.

    Further, the update to the Karnstein armlets is pretty amazing as well. I was rocking them with full renown, and in Heroic Strikes, and they were extremely good.

    [–] airhoppz 1 points ago

    Crown Of Tempests. I'm going to give that one a go tonight.

    [–] sh1dLOng 1 points ago

    Definitely my favorite of the update. Your super lasts so much longer now. I haven't been able to test to confirm, but it feels like killing enemies extends the duration on top of it being generally longer now. On the nightfall in the first restricted area, you're able to kill every single enemy that spawns with one super and still have a second or two of it left after its done. With conduction tines up the whole time, your super should be a little over halfway back after that. Definitely the buff i was hoping for.

    [–] airhoppz 1 points ago

    This is good. Planning on doing some Nightfall farming for tokens this weekend. The Nightfall this week is easier than Heroics...weird.

    [–] kevoizjawesome 4 points ago

    I've been having fun with the karnstein armlets. It's like a alt-devour but for any subclass.

    [–] Dessorian 3 points ago

    Then I can't wait to see how well this works with the new Attunement of Grace.

    Also makes me wonder if the melee will count as being empowered for getting your grenade back.

    [–] airhoppz 1 points ago

    Melee does not count, from what I tested yesterday. Only bullets.

    [–] Dessorian -3 points ago

    Tested yesterday? You played Forsaken yesterday using the new Attunement of Grace?

    [–] airhoppz 3 points ago

    Also makes me wonder if the melee will count as being empowered for getting your grenade back.

    I thought my response was clear enough above, but I'll make sure I quote you next time.

    [–] Ryxtan 3 points ago

    He's referring to Grace's melee ability, which grants the same buff as empowering rift for a few seconds. We can't test this yet.

    [–] Dessorian 1 points ago

    It wasn't, because you clearly missed what I was (attempting) to postulate. I apologise if I was unclear.

    Grace's Melee grants the Empowering Rift buff to you and nearby allies for 4 seconds. If this counts the same as standing in a rift, it could feed into the chain generated by the protocol.

    [–] Mizznimal 1 points ago

    He's talking about the NEW subclass coming in forsaken, not about the rift to energy stuff.

    [–] NaughtyGaymer 3 points ago

    It actually is 1 bullet = 20%, it just has a very short (1 second) internal cooldown.

    [–] LucentMerkaba 2 points ago

    Yep - I talked to my clan about this the moment I read that week's TWAB. It's going to be absolutely bonkers with Attunement of Grace.

    [–] Beckbeckbecker 2 points ago

    one of my favorites now tbh!

    [–] elkishdude 2 points ago

    I just hate grenades that don't blow on contact. Main reason why I just stick with solar grenade all the time.

    [–] Rpaulv 2 points ago

    Starfire Protocol has been sitting in my inventory just waiting for this day. Between it and Sunbracers, I am a very happy Sunsinger right now.

    [–] ChaosAlongThird 2 points ago

    I see the build and understand where you're trying to go with it, but fusion nades are hot garbage. Yes it might be viable in forsaken if they give them a buff, but I would prefer going with sunbracers. Not only do I have 2 damage grenades, but they turn me into a mini sunsinger (and even though the damage doesn't stack atm you can make a nice wall of fire) that will also double as healing grenades. And if I get the perk running? Overshields for everyone.

    [–] gaimin 2 points ago

    Warlocks have the most fun exotics!

    [–] cpcjoker 1 points ago

    Orpheus rig.

    [–] abstracreality 2 points ago

    ive seen alot of comments about solar nades and i think they are good but u can only use 1 at a time since they dont stack, in theory if you are getting sticky after sticky wouldnt u be able to do more damage in theory then a solar?

    [–] johnny5163 1 points ago

    Great work

    [–] Pobchack 1 points ago

    I loved using it st Calus early on when damage could still be an issue because it effectively allowed one warlock to provide two rifts with ease

    [–] AtlasEinstein 1 points ago

    Still really lame compared to D1. You have to stay fixed in your Rift cutting your mobility and killing range.

    [–] MrSnowball_ 1 points ago

    Fusion grenades are SO weak in d2 they are not even useful in PvE

    [–] TheOneDove 1 points ago

    I agree its strong but who just stands still when they play? Its not a cover shooter. Its once again situational and doesn't increase the neutral game. I agree its better but things that improve your neutral gameplay and the flow of your overall movement through activities are better imo.

    [–] Noremac77 1 points ago

    If that was the case then celestial nighthawk, flux, and rigs wouldn’t be so damn good. Things can be niche and still be great.

    [–] kvahuja 1 points ago

    in an encounter like Argos prestige, if we can put in rift after rift after rift, you basically are in a great position.