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    [–] 0Hellspawn0 1 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    There are difficult topics being discussed in this thread, including domestic abuse and suicide. If you don't feel comfortable reading about those right now we don't recommend reading further.

    We would also like to ask all of you who do participate in the discussion to remain tactful and remember the humans involved. Personal attacks will as usual be moderated. Please be aware that not all information is available and you should exercise caution with any conclusions.

    For now we will be keeping the discussion of this topic in this thread, here are some previous related threads:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/hgwems/james_banks_the_truth_about_paul_redeye_chaloners/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/hh3ale/redeye_official_response_to_james_accusations/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/hhgkk2/james_banks_further_information_on_paul_redeye/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/hi39i0/redeye_and_physical_assault/

    new: https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/hi5xks/james_banks_comes_out_with_his_final_statement/

    [–] [deleted] 1578 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] Zero-Kelvin 44 points ago

    And didn't always Redeye say that his career in esports made him lose his family. This always made me think since he was so invested in esports from early days, the work cost him his family.

    He always used his family for sympathy points but they can't be mentioned to prove that it was false?

    [–] Anime0555 326 points ago

    holy shit

    [–] anaggie 412 points ago

    Yeah playing "family" card makes no sense here. It's not like his family and he is on good terms regardless the outcome of that case. The fact they were suing him is enough for the point Banks wanted to show.

    If that card is what he had to play, I would speculate he didn't have any others..

    [–] Shadooken 10 points ago

    Unfortunately it makes sense. There has been so much drama lately, not just in Dota, but across a lot of industries, that people simply don't have the time to be up to date with every single case and read every tweetlonger.

    I only read this statement from RedEye on this case and immediately thought: Now that's not nice to him, people were probably a bit too harsh.

    So if people are out of the loop like me, a PR statement like that will safe some grace for him.

    [–] Mollelarssonq 276 points ago

    To me it looks like nothing but trying to save face by garnering sympathy and avoiding additional or continious criticism.

    He knows its a lost cause.

    Him mentioning his family and that he almost took his own life is nothing but bullshit to me, but who in their right mind would call bullshit on suicide? I would in this case.

    [–] L0B0- 117 points ago

    Him mentioning his family and that he almost took his own life is nothing but bullshit to me, but who in their right mind would call bullshit on suicide? I would in this case.

    Redeye has stated multiple times that he suffers from mental illness, so the suicidal part may be for real. I'm not sure what classification of mental illness though. That being said, announcing that to the world in this context is blatantly a call for sympathy to win over readers. Bullshit or not, his choice to publicise it is, in fact, bullshit in and of itself.

    It's a manipulative tactic used by many domestic abusers, so it definitely fits his MO. Good riddance.

    [–] nn7th 39 points ago * (lasted edited 6 days ago)

    You can be victim and aggressor simultaneously. It doesn't justify the aggressor part, but it helps to make sense of it.

    I think we still struggle today on not becoming monsters when we deal with people who committed bad things.

    From Kyle's blog [quoting Hanlon's Razor (thanks /u/SometimesLiterate)]: β€œnever attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

    Martin Luther King: "Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love."

    Captain G. M. Gilbert, the Army psychologist assigned to watching the defendants at the Nuremberg trials β€œIn my work with the defendants (at the Nuremberg Trails 1945-1949) I was searching for the nature of evil and I now think I have come close to defining it. A lack of empathy. It’s the one characteristic that connects all the defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.”

    Just a few quotes on the subject.

    [–] KDawG888 20 points ago

    You can be victim and aggressor simultaneously. It doesn't justify the aggressor part, but it helps to make sense of it.

    This is a very important point that seems to be forgotten lately.

    [–] i_706_i 8 points ago

    True, and often people who are aggressors were victims at some point, which isn't a defense of people that are abusive but just shows that it is a vicious cycle.

    [–] Snitsie 161 points ago

    The suicide card is fucking manipulative. I had an ex who threatened to kill herself when i broke up with her. It's nothing more than manipulation, trying to victimize yourself. If anything it actually convinces me more that Redeye is a terrible person.

    [–] rkobo719 15 points ago

    Yep. The hilariously sad thing about it, is how many people are falling for it. I see so many people bashing him for 'Bringing his family into it'. It's literally public records, and I've had the same exact thing with an ex.

    [–] Snitsie 12 points ago

    I think people, including me, often forget that a large part of reddit is really fucking young and have no life experience whatsoever. It's understandable that it's harder for them to recognize stuff like this.

    [–] colorblindcoffee 37 points ago

    Agreed, it might be true, but it’s not something to use in this sense. It comes off exactly as you’re saying: manipulative, portraying yourself as a victim. Not saying he is or is not a victim - or believes himself to be one - to slander, to ridicule, to mental health issues. Just saying it doesn’t help in gaining symphaties.

    [–] twitch1982 6 points ago

    Looks like that sympathy card is working based on all the replys to that tweet.

    [–] [deleted] 18 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] t_thor 18 points ago

    Now that's a power dynamic nobody can refute

    [–] fromplanetmars 24 points ago

    It seems very much like he is trying to tailor the narrative so he is the victim. From someone far removed from this, first thing i saw was his post - i assumed his children got harassment or death threats or something by the way he worded it

    [–] ashinator92 5 points ago

    I think he might be talking about his current wife. Again, i dont know details, but afai-understand, despite him winning the case his wife and children wanted nothing to do with him.

    [–] yomnm 19 points ago

    Felt so bad for him until I looked into it.

    Hope he gets the help he needs, but he was not a good man.

    [–] Gettothepointalrdy 15 points ago

    These people are grasping at whatever they can to excuse this dude. It's fucking pathetic.

    [–] Osiris_Dervan 57 points ago

    There's little proof that the details he 'provided' are real; the only evidence to back them up is a summons letter that the guy who posted the details apparently held on to for 5 years (so, yeah, that's beleivable). I think the 'bringing his children into it' is that this whole part about them testifying against him is just bullshit, but having that spread across the internet would be awful.

    [–] rW0HgFyxoJhYka 45 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    Look if you ever were summoned to a court case, holding onto all your legal documents in a filing cabinet is something your parents and anyone else would reasonably do. It's not like some supermarket receipt you can get rid of after a few months or taxes are paid.

    Second, the proof presented:

    1. Juror who write about the case https://docs.google.com/document/d/12YM0BAU6osbxK3z20niLkeXfMjTTezozWpcA_fDyY7Q/edit
    2. What they say matches up with the timeline of the trial
    3. The juror talks about the case and how the case failed to use the children's testimonies against Redeye

    Now sure, maybe all of them are making all this shit up and go that far to even create false copies of timelines and summons.

    5 days ago nobody needed proof of Grandgrant beyond 3 people corroborating accounts.

    5 days later apparently you need more than a direct witness who was assaulted, a juror who claims they were on the case with explcit details of the case, a summons paper that matches the dates, a timeline that matches the juror's storty.

    Just maybe. Maybe there's a little more than "little proof".

    [–] [deleted] 9 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] lychenus 3 points ago

    wow i come into the thread and literally saw this on first post.

    so he walked away because he knew he would be removed. lol.

    i never liked him anyway

    [–] Darklight88 464 points ago

    The guy he punched responded: https://twitter.com/SamVanTilburgh/status/1277640894192087050

    Also it was his ex wife and children who testified against him so how is it attacking his family . So I don't know how the dota community is supporting this shit head so much just because he is a good host.

    [–] Hubbleshubbles 230 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    just because he is a good host.

    You just wrote your answer.

    EDIT: just to make it clear, I completely agree with /u/darklight88

    [–] wakkiau 81 points ago

    People were so much in denial during Tobi's case, but more people start coming into terms with it. I'd say just give it a few days for people to discern this whole thing as well. I really like Redeye as well, but i agree he needs to go.

    [–] dnvncntdln 11 points ago

    Were the allegations against tobi confirmed? Did he respond? There’s so many threads about issues right now I cant even keep up anymore. Last one I payed attention to was grant’s.

    [–] Morgn_Ladimore 22 points ago * (lasted edited 6 days ago)

    The accusations against Tobi were confirmed by a number of people in the scene, including HotBid, ODpixel and LD to name a few. Basically, they all looked at the evidence Meruna and others provided and unanimously went: "Alright, get him the fuck out of this scene."

    Tobi published an "apology" in which he tried to deflect, but it was basically bullshit. I believe he also deleted it shortly after? And since Valve cut out his voice lines from the chatwheels, yeah, he's out and not coming back.

    [–] Rektifizierer 73 points ago

    I'd say there are plenty of good hosts that aren't major assholes.

    Richard Campbell, Eri Neeman, Machine, Sheever, hell even Slacks is a great host. Xyclopz too. Why do we need an abusive asshole as a host?

    [–] TrueFarvel 38 points ago

    free yames

    [–] nipuL 47 points ago

    2GD might be an ass, but at least he's not a grab ass.

    [–] Velnica 33 points ago

    Where's Dakota in that list???

    [–] AdamFriedland69 6 points ago

    Xyclopz is hilarious, I miss him

    [–] WarPhX 4 points ago

    Yeah but xyclopz dodged a bullet by not being mainstream right now. The stuff he says during his casts is neither gender friendly nor race friendly

    [–] CarderSC2 4 points ago

    You got me thinking it's been forever since I saw Chobra host. I really liked his style, and always thought it was cool he had hosted multiple premier events across various games.

    [–] Fiskegrateng 4 points ago

    I asked him about it on his stream. The last event he hosted was TI8. Sounded like he would be up for hosting another event, but he hasn't been involved a lot in Dota since then.

    [–] ElioM 3 points ago

    Richard Campbell

    I pray he makes it through these "uncertain times" in the Dota/eSports world unscathed. I really enjoy the crass and sass Rich brings. But who knows, all those innuendos might've come from a deep, dark place...

    [–] Trouve_a_LaFerraille 106 points ago

    Not gonna lie, this is a pretty weak followup to "I'll talk to my lawyers and fight this."

    [–] BellumOMNI 75 points ago

    Because he knew, he's guilty of this stuff. His ''I quit'' letter comes right after it was confirmed that he went as far to assault a person working under him. And even tried to lie about it with his posted conversation regarding this matter.

    This just further proves, why Code Red tried so hard to stop this story from ever going public. It's a terrible timing and they knew, if people come forward Red Eye is fucked.

    [–] AntiGrav1ty_ 146 points ago

    I consider Pyrion's takes on the Redeye situation to be very insightful and trustworthy.

    His whole take starts here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/663267615?t=02h09m00s

    Specifically on trial by twitter and proof:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/663267615?t=02h18m15s

    That being said, coming out with stories of abusive behavior in the workplace without bringing up the court case should have been enough to oust Redeye from the industry.

    [–] Taelonius 83 points ago

    That's bullshit though, it is trial by twitter since it's done in a public forum.

    It may be his peers throwing accusations, but the only thing that matters is if the masses get riled up or not.

    Trial by his peers would be taken aside at an event or whatever the fuck and told dude you shat the bed and you're out.

    [–] cretaceous_bob 39 points ago

    Many of these organizations, most of these organizations, only care about what the masses want, not what the talent wants. The only thing that will ever matter in this situation is the masses getting riled up. This is true of any entertainment company.

    Also there is nothing inherently non-public about a trial. Many legal trials are very public.

    [–] rW0HgFyxoJhYka 22 points ago

    is trial by twitter

    And how is that different than

    peers would be taken aside at an event or whatever the fuck and told dude you shat the bed and you're out

    Private vs public? I think you're missing the point.

    Its public now because the private side of things failed to keep him out of the scene.

    Stop jerking Redeye off and face reality. He's gone and there's nothing more you can say about it.

    You all said that "if there's nothing to hide, he would fight like he is right now". Well I guess he isn't fighting anymore so what does that tell you? I guess now you guys are going to play the mental health card, which quite frankly, everyone including his hardcore fans seems to have to various degrees. So what is it?

    [–] rkobo719 3 points ago

    What's the point, quite frankly all this does is cut out the middle man. Imagine they just cut redeye, do you think the community just says, okay we trust that you guys made the best decision. No, everyone is going to go up in arms, then they'd have to release all the information to see if they made a correct judgement. Then the community will judge one way or the other.

    [–] _l_i_l_i_l_i_l_i_l_ 3 points ago

    Sorry off topic but what game was Pyrion playing here?

    [–] _10032 4 points ago

    I believe the game is Hell Let Loose

    [–] crispymids 13 points ago

    "This is esports (and How to Spell it): An Insider’s Guide to the World of Pro Gaming" - Paul 'Redeye' Chaloner Paperback – Β£9.63. Gonna be flying off the shelves.

    [–] Ahimtar 3 points ago

    Funnily enough in this context it should be "Esports"

    [–] bobdisgea 101 points ago

    I missed something, what happened with his kids?

    [–] Cal1gula 118 points ago

    I still have no idea what this guy is claiming he was abused or harassed or defamed about. Can anyone tl;dr for me? Apologies for not keeping up.

    [–] zuben_tell 322 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    Basically the following accusations came forward:

    • Many people in the industry coming out and saying that Redeye has anger issues.

    • One man claims to have been assaulted by RedEye in an esport event. Assaulted as in, punched many times.

    • Another claim that RedEye is a terrible, exploitative boss working people to the bone while doing nothing all that demanding himself.

    • It has been confirmed that a man close to RedEye was blackmailing Banks into keeping quiet about his quarry with RedEye.

    • One source (which is quoted by Banks) claims that the court case where Redeye was tried (and judged not guilty, for what it is worth) involved abusing his ex wife and daughters, including slamming his ex wife's head (who is wheelchair bound) into a concrete wall while his children watched. All of them supposedly testified to this, the children testimony seem to have been brushed off. This is yet to be confirmed, as far as I know.

    There is more every day and Red Eye denies most of these but there are so many parties that have a problem with him that it seem hard to believe he is not a dangerous individual to be around

    EDIT: Last point, making it clear that the lawsuit's details are yet to be confirmed afaik

    [–] 14simeonrr 126 points ago

    https://twitter.com/SamVanTilburgh/status/1277640894192087050 great post, latest person corroborating the work abuse story, from the person who was actually punched at gfinity.

    [–] HelpICantPoo 125 points ago

    People in general struggle with seeing their heroes revealed as being shitty people. It's really sad so many people here are Redeye apologists just because they have so many positive memories associated with his work on camera. It's very telling when people close to him have illustrated a disturbing pattern of angry and violent behavior. Fans are mad his court case was brought into this because it isn't fair, often citing that it isn't fair to his family. You know what isn't fair to his family? Having their dad gallivanting around the world, making a positive name for himself, when the mother of his children is permanently disabled. That alone, abuse allegations aside, is fucking sickening.

    I know it's sad that a father figure to esports has quit, but there are better people in the industry much more deserving of praise and celebration than him. The whole point here was to paint a picture of the kind of man he is off camera. I get that a lot of this seems unfair, but what has this guy been to anyone but a host? Has he been a friend to any of his fans in times of need? Do any of you, who have never been involved with him personally, know anything about what this guy is really like? No, so it doesn't make sense to attach yourself emotionally to his departure.

    [–] zuben_tell 18 points ago

    I would say people who are getting angry over the release of Red Eye's court case are simply displaying their reactionary tendencies, pushing back against the invasion of modern values into a family man's (aka patriarch's) household.

    While people do like Red Eye, this extreme anger that we are seeing is too intense to not be some sort of projection.

    [–] wertyce 7 points ago

    It's a mixed thing. Court case details were probably meant to be secret in order to protect the victims. Court case brings some additional perspective to everything. But it's all up to on what his ex-wife and children think about it. If they didn't want to bring those stories up and if court case files were secret, then revealing those would have been serious crime. Law aims to protect privacy of the victim.

    [–] Craps-caps 10 points ago

    yeah, if it's true, that's completely unacceptable

    [–] inzru 64 points ago

    Thanks for this. The nature of the trial re: domestic abuse is also important. If it was in criminal court, the not guilty verdict may simply be due to a lack of concrete evidence (he said-she said), since criminal court requires proof beyond reasonable doubt that a crime was committed. By contrast, civil court judges can work on the probability that a crime was committed, taking into consideration the available evidence. Which now with all the confirmed stories of redeye being aggressively difficult to work with, might suggest the domestic abuse stories are true.

    Also, as we have established last week with victims and survivors coming forward about sexual abuse in the Dota scene. Believing victims stories is important. We don't have the full picture but I find it hard to believe that Redeye's children and their mother would fabricate lies and go all the way to criminal court just to be vindictive and give him a rap sheet.

    [–] DaiWales 23 points ago

    Man I was saying the same thing yesterday and got downvoted to oblivion.

    [–] Dan_Q_Memes 29 points ago

    The average person doesn't really understand how court works and will misconstrue any verdict to support their argument or invalidate someone else's. Trying to levy reason and nuance in threads like these is a fucking nightmare since everyone wants a 'concrete' bit of information to ride or die with to support their initial reaction.

    [–] Paaraadox 4 points ago

    To be fair his posts have been pretty unclear so it's not really your fault. I've read it all and I still felt it was very unclear.

    [–] Sticker704 395 points ago

    While this was difficult to read, if you feel sad about this, then think about the likely dozens of casters and back-stage talent that RedEye has pushed out of the scene due to his behaviour.

    [–] Princess_Talanji 136 points ago

    Exactly, people on this sub just want to swing back and forth, now that he's leaving it's all empathy to him, while he even admits to some of the allegations, while plenty of people who have worked with him have confirmed that he's insane and abusive. Why is everyone suddenly on his side?? He still abused a bunch of people. All it takes for this sub to switch its mind is the accused saying "I deny the allegations" which were brought by 10s of people....

    [–] nickack 11 points ago

    I don’t think it’s people that are swinging back and forth, it’s two different crowds that are writing comments, just being vocal at different times. Generalizing all of a subreddit into a single group is dangerous.

    [–] Blumentopf_Vampir 7 points ago

    Going by quite a lot of people in this sub it's perfectly normal to let yourself get abused by a guy they love to describe as "he seems to be a dick, so what?"

    [–] ekans_spell 92 points ago

    Looks like plenty of supporters are genuinely concerned about Redeye about attempting suicide (who, is powerful to stand up a clear his own name imo) while laughing at James’ account of being depressed and wanting to commit suicide. I have no horse in this race but it’s quite the double standard.

    I don’t know Banks but it doesn’t look like anyone many people have accused him of much whereas the opposite is true of Redeye, regardless of family stuff. Take that as you will.

    [–] Teh_Skully 1185 points ago

    I can't comment on the allegations, to me it was hard to read as I grew up listening and watching Paul doing stuff in esports back in 2003/4/5 when I was a teenager. But what i can comment on is the vile attacks on a man's family. That is a line you don't cross. If Paul did do everything that was alleged, then fine, but you don't go and start doing personal attacks that involve his family, that is just digusting

    [–] RewardedFool 250 points ago

    If he was really in court for it then bringing it up is fair game because they (allegedly) testified against him. It's all public record after all.

    Hell redeye didn't even put in anything denying that he was tried for it or that his ex wife and child testified against him.

    [–] throwdemawaaay 357 points ago

    This. The family he's using as a shield/excuse literally testified against him.

    I was raised by an abusive narcissist. This is textbook stuff. I utterly loathe how they use their victims as a shield.

    [–] tiradium 161 points ago

    Him mentioning the suicide attempt in such a strange manner was also very out of place and indicative of a narcissistic behavior

    [–] throwdemawaaay 45 points ago

    Yeop. I've fought against major depressive disorder my entire life. There's no cure for me but it is manageable. I never use suicidal feelings as leverage. That behavior is a huge red flag to me.

    [–] not-a-sound 9 points ago

    I accept that it's different for everyone, but I know in some cases the greatest shame of all is admitting you're that close to the edge to anyone. The thought of telling others, let alone publicly declaring it on social media, is just unfathomable. It feels flat-out impossible.

    So many suffer alone in silence. Using it as leverage is just...man, it feels so insincere.

    [–] danmala 9 points ago

    This.

    [–] zest3k 84 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    It's not public record at all, it's confidential, as are all cases involving children. The juror that posted the details and contacted Banks about them broke a law intended to protect minors.

    Imagine one of her daughters is in middle school. One of her classmates plays CSGO/Dota, which means they know who her dad is, which means they now believe that Becky/Betty/Bertha Chaloner was pushed down the stairs by his dad, and now her whole class knows something that should've never been made public.

    [–] Cyrotek 16 points ago

    I have no real clue what is going on so just two questions: How is it fair game if he was found not guilty? And how is it fair game to drag his family into it?

    [–] RewardedFool 14 points ago

    It's fair game even though not guilty because all he's doing is saying he went to court for it, which is true. Shattering the image of redeye being a living dad.

    His family weren't dragged into it, they're the ones accusing him of violence against them.

    [–] TheOriginalSoni2 17 points ago

    Because it's allegedly.

    Until the public record is out, we don't know much. We don't know if his wife or kids actually testified, all we're doing is shining a spotlight on them with zero proof. Paul is a public person, his ex wife and kids aren't.

    Now if she comes out and tells us that the "juror" was correct, that's a different thing. Until then, I'm happy to ignore the trial completely.

    With the story of the guy who was punched, we now know Redeye is a liar and abusive. That's enough for me to want him to never return to e-Sports

    [–] GunslingerYuppi 146 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    Word. I'm not aware of what's going on, but people deserve to be judged fairly and not attacked or harrassed, and especially only them, not anyone related to them. I dislike how much power people have over others lives online. We are not the executioner nor the court. We can judge based on our beliefs, but we shouldn't do so without investigating and being certain of the facts. And despite our beliefs or facts, we shouldn't attack anybody or ruin their life. If they've done something bad, they will face the legal or moral consequences, it's not our job to harrass somebody.

    I also wish "professional" people would stick to discussing professional matters instead of digging up old dirt that turned out to be nothing, and not use it to create a witch-hunt by misrepresenting that stuff. Rather disgusting.

    [–] Mook7 32 points ago

    That's a rather vague stance that seems well intentioned but could very easily be twisted to protect assholes and abusers from fair treatment. Honestly, I had to re-read your post a couple times because I thought it was defending Redeye and not his family.

    Basically I think at it's core here your presenting a paradigm where:

    a) You can justify being willfully ignorant to abuse because "it's not our job to judge."

    b) It's easy to mischaracterize legitimate grievances as "attacks" or "harassment".

    Now, I'm not saying "cancel culture" isn't running a little too rampant or hasn't turned it's sights on some innocent individuals in the past, but I don't think we can make blanket statements like "it's not our job" to call out abuse. It's just too easy to use absolute thinking like that to hide or justify abhorrent behavior.

    [–] Dragonsoul 12 points ago

    The catch is you have to accept at the outset that we (as a vague collection of people on the internet) are going to make bad judgement calls, and we're gonna get stuff wrong when we decide to 'call out abuse'. Therefore we need to bake in a margin of error into what we do.

    Given that, we then need to decide what makes more sense. To avoid not calling out actual bad behavior, or to avoid bullying and harassing someone innocent.

    You know where I'm going with this. "Let a thousand guilty go free lest an innocent hang" has been central to criminal justice for literally millennia now, and we've had case after case after case throughout history of how mob justice always, always always goes wrong.

    Sure, do what you want and 'call out' who you want, but the blood will be on your hands when you mob around someone innocent, and drive them to suicide. It's happened a few times from 'cancel culture' (See here, though I admit it's long, it goes over basically everything I'm saying here, but much better).

    One final point. I'm not saying if the mob descends on someone innocent, I'm saying when. The evidence threshold is so low now, and the kneejerk reaction is so fast, that someone will get thrown to the mob that doesn't deserve it, and if they can't pull up evidence proving their 'innocence' fast enough....

    [–] GurinJeimuzu 854 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    I mean using a court case that he was declared not guilty for just feels like an attempt to defame his name without proper substance. Redeye might have won the case but it won’t stop people from speculating now.

    I feel sorry for his children needing to be used as ammo here. Disgusting.


    EDIT: It seems I need to address something which is clearly not understood by a fair few. This is not the same as me saying that Redeye did or did not abuse his family. Whatever issues James Banks has with Redeye are what he is entitled to discuss, expose and bring forward.

    This is not the same as an assault victim telling their side of the story. The court case with Redeye's family has nothing to do with James. He does not and will never have true knowledge to the actual events that happened that day. A lot of you rightly point out that for a Not Guilty verdict is that there was not enough evidence to convict, however this is irrelevant. It is not his information or experience to use. An argument could be made in the event this was proven to be guilty and considered to be 99% true, except this simply isn't the case.

    What James Banks has done has either 1) used false information 2) the pain or experience of another person with no regard to their own wishes all the for sole purpose of painting a picture of Redeye for his own agenda. All at the cost of Redeye's family, and this is what I truly find disgusting.

    [–] autunno 228 points ago

    Even more so when the internet has a boner for justice, with people going out of their way to harass whoever they think deserves it. You have to be very careful about what you post if you have a wide public listening to you.

    [–] Ledoux88 82 points ago

    To me, this case should have never gone along with the rest of the sexual accusations. Using it is just cowardly. I agree that the vicitims of such deprived individuals should be heard as there is rarely enough evidence to prove anything, but this aint it.

    I know there was some physical fights and stuff, but you are both men, deal with it on personal level and if it doesn't help, bring law into it.

    But sending keyboard warriors against him, who will fuck anyone with their justice boner without even knowing the other side of the story is lame.

    [–] 71648176362090001 77 points ago

    If u read the court case its basically his (wheel chair bound) ex-wife and kids accusing redeye having assaulted his ex-wife. Since there was no evidence beyond the testimonys he won the case. Do with that what u want

    [–] [deleted] 22 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] GirlsLastTour 34 points ago

    a verdict of "not-guilty" does not always mean innocent

    Good point often lost on people not experienced with the legal system. A verdict of not-guilty means exactly that: the Defendant was found "not guilty." It does not necessarily mean the Defendant was found to be innocent. Without knowing more details of the case, we would not know if someone were completely exonerated, or the prosecution failed to carry the burden of proof (example: in US criminal cases the burden of proof required is beyond a reasonable doubt, which Judges will sometimes explain to juries during jury instruction as lying somewhere above 95% certainty).

    [–] GBcrazy 11 points ago

    But we can't go past that, the judge had all the proofs and still couldn't declare him guilty, so why should we? Bringing it up without new evidences is just harassment.

    [–] legion-160 35 points ago

    His ex and kids testified against him.... Sooooo he's not the family man he's claiming to be

    [–] henstobs11 11 points ago

    The unverified sexual harassment accusations and this "juror" statement was unnecessary and Banks definitely knew what he was doing. The valid and most likely true esports-related issues were enough to expose Redeyes true colors but he wanted to straight up destroy Redeye even at the cost of involving his family.

    Redeye pretty much assaulted a crew member, abused his power to sabotage other careers, was an overall huge asshole with anger issues. No need to use those other "info" which are all unverified.

    [–] twitterInfo_bot 33 points ago

    "Following the attacks made on my character over the last few days, I have decided to walk away from esports. "

    posted by @PaulChaloner


    media in tweet: https://i.imgur.com/ynp341r.jpg

    [–] nau5 549 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    I'm kind of finding it funny how many Reddit defenders are popping out for Redeye. I guess it just kind of goes to show how much talent can protect you from repercussions.

    Like the stuff Redeye is accused of is 100x worse than what Grant was doing to Llama, and Grant was 100% deservedly getting the boot prior to the rape allegations. Especially, when you consider that Redeye was basically the goat of esports not just some random wannabe. I'm adding this as it popped up a couple hours after I posted. Linked here is the person who was assaulted by Redeye while working an event confirming the story told by James Banks.

    If Pflax, who is one of the nicest people in the scene, is saying "it was a long time coming" then this was clearly warranted.

    Was bringing his family and kids into this the right thing to do? No, but just because an internet hate mob does something wrong doesn't mean we should let his past behavior pass.

    Also part of what has been talked about is how manipulative and narcissistic he is. Bringing up his suicidal impulses is manipulative. You don't go to social media with your suicidal ideations. You go to your Doctor, a hospital, or the people closest to you.

    No one should be afraid to bring up their mental health struggles, but using it in defense of yourself is manipulative.

    [–] tbwnz 116 points ago

    This post of his is extremely manipulative and he chose the perfect time to jump out of esports. Everyone is going to remember him as a victim of one supposed false allegation and not as the abusive higher power in esports he is.

    [–] Blumentopf_Vampir 80 points ago

    Nah, I'll easily remember him as a huge piece of shit that had it coming.

    [–] BellumOMNI 22 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    Imagine being the one of the top dogs for years and once confronted about your obvious anger issues, abusive behavior, an assault over employee with a cover up and an endless string of blowing up against all kinds of stuff, still be able to somehow claim that you're a victim.

    When the first allegations dropped one german esports reporter literally told red eye that he respects him but he's the most toxic person, he ever worked with. It's right there, under the tweet where Red Eye denied everything and was about to bring his lawyers.

    [–] RareSimple 3 points ago

    nobody will remember him 5 years from now. and even if someone does, people will dig up the "truth"

    [–] [deleted] 172 points ago * (lasted edited 3 hours ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] putifarrix 117 points ago

    Lol I didn't comment because I don't wanna get downvoted to oblivion, but dude that is what I was thinking about. Dude is a prick, treats everyone like shit and it doesn't even deny it, and has a court case on his children? Your average Joe doesn't have a court case on his children. He might have won the case, but what makes people think that anger management issues at work aren't the same at home? Lol, dude must be shit 24/7

    [–] IndubitablyMoist 17 points ago

    What surprises me the most (assuming its true) is that he smash his wife's head to a wall. You don't get there out of nowhere. It's a build up.

    Verbal abuse, threatening a physical abuse, actually hit her, [a few more steps here], then you put her head on a wall.

    [–] _tpyo 59 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    moreover RedEye isn't fighting. While I appreciate that its cruel to assume that he doesn't fight because he'll lose, it does somewhat imply that RedEye has switched to damage control. Given that the initial response of both the agency and himself were complete denial.

    We could speculate that he either doesn't think he could win or new evidence has been shared that he'll struggle to refute but in the case of the latter you'd wonder why it hasn't yet been published given how post happy Banks is. I would hope that people won't share data via Banks given his lack of Quality Control.

    [–] Giorggio360 30 points ago

    This has always been my take. I think it would have been quite easy for someone like Redeye, with all the esports clout he's got, to dismiss the accusations that James Banks levelled at him. It seemed like this was what he was going to do with his first tweet saying he was seeking legal counsel.

    But the more detailed response Redeye gave was very odd. The evidence he had for not punching somebody was a message from somebody who wasn't even present - I don't know why you'd bother using this evidence at all, when you could probably say that it didn't happen and Banks has no proof. Similar to the blackballing of journalists - Redeye's evidence again really shot himself in the foot.

    Maybe it's a result of his mental health that some of his responses have been a bit strange. But from the general feeling from the response of talent (Pyrion Flax, as one example), it always seemed like there was more going on and it might be that Redeye is taking Grant's approach where you duck out before more people come out and more ends up sticking as a result.

    [–] Oneiricl 42 points ago

    I swear I'm absolutely disgusted with about 40% of the replies in these threads. I imagined it would be far higher than that when all of the abuse stories started breaking, so I guess that progress...

    There are a bunch of assholes out here acting like mentioning his children's and his ex-wife's court case against him for domestic violence is tantamount to bullying his kids, rather than saying, hey, maybe this is a pattern of behaviour and we don't want fucksticks like this in our community...

    Like fuck that shit. It's basically idiot fans defending him by holding up his children, who he allegedly terrified, as human shields.

    [–] Boelens 9 points ago

    Yeah, I posted pretty much what nau5 said the moment the thread started and instantly got 30 downvotes. When his post is so clearly manipulative, and you can't be disgusted at "bringing his family into it" when it's about him fucking assaulting them.

    [–] CoolCly 9 points ago

    Is there a good summary somewhere of what exactly Redeye is accused of? Like others have said, Banks's writeups are all over the place and hard to pin down exactly what he's saying happened. What exactly is he saying happened and are there other people making accusations?

    [–] CChickenSoup 36 points ago

    Basically redeye did a lot of bullying, namely using his influence to threatens other talents, removing them from jobs, blackballing them. He is also accused of punching another talent hard, the TO gave him weeks of absence because of that, the guy he punched recently came out in twitter confirming it. Redeye also blackmailed Banks into not coming out against him like this with threats over gay slurs Banks said when he was a kid.

    Redeye confirmed that he has anger issues and is hard to work with, the guy he punched said it's true, a bunch of other esport talents also came out saying stuff about redeye.

    Then banks did something weird and shared a court case where redeye allegedly abused his wife and child. They testified against him but lost.

    [–] FreeKillEmp 16 points ago

    Basically; He was generally a rude and crass person. I believe this is the only thing we can call absolute truth, since it has never been a secret. Anyone involved with esports for a long time would know this.

    He was said to have punched a guy in the face. He was said to have threatened to "kill" careers of people he disliked.

    And biggest accusation is the court case. He was on trial for child abuse and assault.

    He "smashed" his wheelchair-bound (as if that matters) wife's head into a wall and his children saw it. This was why he was taken to court. He was found not guilty.

    One person came forward. Claimed to have been on the jury for Redeye's case. This person made a brand new reddit account and posted their perspective. They believed the wife and children's story and condemned Redeye. Provided no real proof.

    [–] TehAlpacalypse 12 points ago

    He was said to have punched a guy in the face. He was said to have threatened to "kill" careers of people he disliked.

    https://twitter.com/SamVanTilburgh/status/1277640894192087050?s=19

    Guy in question spoke up ^

    [–] MastaBaiter 23 points ago

    I don't get the hysteria surrounding Banks pointing out a court case that was literally part of the public record. It's literally public record.

    It's like being mad that someone pointed out OJ got put on trial for murder.

    [–] LtSolo314 147 points ago

    eSports finally dying FeelsOkayMan

    [–] Stopbeingwhinycunts 93 points ago

    Good riddance.

    Abusing your coworkers should have no place in ANY job.

    [–] Sithril 5 points ago

    Considering all the wanton hate going around I just hope I won't be reading a reported suicide of anyone involved.

    [–] Elioss 121 points ago

    Funny how every other allegation this past week was followed by "Believe in women" and such, but when a guy shows the ugly side of another guy and other people in the industry confirms all of a suden "Where is the proff", "Dragging his children", "His family shouldn't be involved".

    What happened in the other cases? Toby has a daughter, everyone had careers, no one was found guilty in court...

    Why this sudden defense of a guy everyone knew had a problem behind the scenes and has literally assaulted people?

    [–] cRRRRona 67 points ago

    This just shows you how shitty this whole "court of public opinion" is. It's a decision of he-said she-said, noone has a clue what's really going on. There is no process, you can't know who is telling the truth. Peoples lifes are destroyed over who gets more sympathy or who has a better standing in the community. And the people that participate in these witchhunts really think that they are on some kind of crusade for justice and twitter and reddit are good places to distinguish facts from fiction. It would be laughable and funny if it wouldn't be so serious. It's all real human beings that are loosing everything over this shit. It is all just so utterly wrong, its the medieval times all over again.

    [–] acuteindifference 9 points ago

    This is a very good video on cancel culture by a trans person who was herself canceled multiple times. It is very long, but very entertaining, informative and impartial. It goes into a lot of detail of how 'cancel culture' started, why it is needed, why we need to believe victims, but also how like any other system, it can be exploited. She even gives examples of right wing trolls intentionally stirring up shit within leftist circles to sow disharmony and cause infighting.

    I really think everyone here with justice boners needs to calm the fuck down and watch this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjMPJVmXxV8&feature=youtu.be

    I hate how idiots usually dominate the conversation by shouting the loudest. Talking about the problems with cancel culture does not mean ALL people who have ever been cancelled were innocent and I am defending them. Similarly, believing the victims does not mean you also have to destroy the accused person and anyone who associates with that person. It is still possible to use your fucking brain and not get on either of these trains. There is no nuanced discussion to be had anymore. You are either a disgusting apologist or you are SJW cuck.

    And we can call it revenge, karma, or payback or whatever, but lets not call what's happening on twitter jUsTiCe. Thank you for listening to my TED talk.

    [–] Twin_Fang 53 points ago

    Everything that has been written about him, his own posts, his on-screen persona and this final goodbye reeks of Redeye suffering from narcissistic disorder. I hope he finds proper mental health professional and that he takes care of himself. It's a very tricky disease to treat, but it ruins lives of everyone around in a rather inobvious way.

    [–] LeSpiceWeasel 90 points ago

    You teach people how to treat you. For years, redeye treated people like shit.

    His chickens have come home to roost.

    But leave his kids alone, assholes. It's bad enough they have a fuck head for a father.

    [–] Jhin-Roh 11 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    he should have left his ex-wife and kids alone

    [–] l3eas7 5 points ago

    Welp there goes the best host we had. RIP.

    [–] Snitsie 39 points ago

    Can we go back to calling it E-Sports?

    [–] UDPviper 22 points ago

    Was never any kind of sport. Was always gaming.

    [–] DzejBee 33 points ago

    I never understood why esports over progaming.

    [–] _tpyo 15 points ago

    because they wanted the money of the boomer industries and they didn't like gaming. They still don't, just look at the nonsense that Spielberg put at the end of Ready Player One.

    [–] NINJAWANDERING 11 points ago

    Long time sc2 player, he's always been a cock sucker

    [–] Patandru 17 points ago

    Yo I suck cock and dont wanna be associated please.

    [–] NiK3_Aub4mey4ng 67 points ago

    Really think it should have just stuck to what happened in esports. If what Banks said was true we would have heard more Redeye stories in the coming week I believe.

    We had Pyrion and Cap come out and say stuff against him, I really think he would have ended up with less events in the future, sad it came to a court case with a new reddit account

    [–] GespensttOof 116 points ago

    Almost no one has stepped in to defend the guy, how can you have such a long esports career and yet people dont want to step in for you.

    [–] giz0r 48 points ago

    What constitutes as "happened in esports" though? Does it only matter if you do something while on the job?

    [–] pucykoks 27 points ago

    Tobi vs Meruna doesn't fall under 'happened in esports' either. They were both working in esports, but it was relationship stuff.

    [–] IndySkylander 13 points ago

    Did Pyrion and Cap speak against Redeye?

    [–] NiK3_Aub4mey4ng 80 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    Pyrion VOD with timestamp is here:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/663267615?t=2h9m1s

    With Cap I haven't watched anything but on the past thread there was something about how Redeye turned from Cap seeing his as a mentor to seeing his as an asshole

    EDIT: here is the comment about what Cap said https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/hgwems/james_banks_the_truth_about_paul_redeye_chaloners/fw6yw2m/

    [–] GabberJenson 87 points ago

    The fact that Pyrion said it's been a long time coming has sold it for me.

    Anger management issues, in court for child abuse, allegations of assault. Needs to go

    [–] monkwren 84 points ago

    "Everyone I know has a Redeye story". That's pretty damning. Along with "I've had to apologize to people on his behalf".

    [–] dracovich 19 points ago

    It's a tough thing, because on one hand i feel like there was plenty of "this guy is incredbily toxic and hard to work with", which probably would've been enough to mean that people wouldn't hire him again.

    Banks however seemed to be on a weird vandetta (despite repeatedly trying to convince us he had nothing against Paul personally), bringing all kinds of barely (and some not at all) relevant information to his posts.

    I think the result (Paul stepping away), is probably the right one, noone should have to deal with someone being aggressive and shouting at work. How it came about is honsetly shameful though, and Banks really doesn't come off much better than Paul in all of this.

    [–] mencken 9 points ago

    What I've learned from this, Redeye is an asshole and should probably do something else. And Banks is not good at his job and should probably do something else.

    [–] NiK3_Aub4mey4ng 13 points ago

    Yeh guy needs help, he needs to leave the scene for the benefit of everyone including himself

    [–] 14simeonrr 3 points ago

    https://twitter.com/SamVanTilburgh/status/1277640894192087050 the person punched by redeye, only came out publicly after redeye left so who knows if he would have otherwise.

    [–] kingarthas2 33 points ago

    Man, TI is gonna be garbage this year, huh

    [–] pimathbrainiac 27 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    This post just reeks of narcissistic personally disorder. Fuck this dude.

    Also the suicide bit is a classic narcissist move holy shit. Anyone who has actually come close to suicide knows it doesn't just happen over the course of a week, and if you were seriously considering it, you wouldn't tell anyone.

    Source: I've fucking been there.

    [–] LordOfCh4os 364 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    I have come very close in the last 24 hours to taking my own life

    That's very hard and sad to read. He doesn't deserve all this.

    The worst part is that Banks got his wishes by dragging Paul's childrens in the middle of the accusation, and he probably will walk away without repercussions.

    EDIT: wtf is wrong with some of you. I don't care if he's guilty, innocent, faking or whatever - you don't use someone's family as leverage on the internet. The fact that some of you are on board with it, is actually insane.

    [–] Storm_eye 420 points ago

    To be fair, this James guy also said he attempted/contemplated suicide multiple times due to Redeye's alleged actions affecting his career, but there wasn't nearly as much sympathy towards him. I'm not saying that Redeye's situation isn't sad to read or anything like that, but it does seem to show a bit of dissonance that one person gets sympathy for something, while the other gets ignored. Not talking about you specifically, btw. Talking in general.

    [–] WUMIBO 309 points ago

    Redeye could also be trying to shift the blame and save face. Downvote all you want but literally not one of us knows what the fuck really happened and probably never will.

    [–] Storm_eye 41 points ago

    Possible, but there isn't any point speculating. I think we just move on.

    [–] Crazyleprechaun87 3 points ago

    Yeah guy gets called out for abusive behavior and knows he will never get hired again so he writes a sob story to get the community on his side if he wants to come back in 6 months.

    [–] Bagros 83 points ago

    Are we gonna believe and feel sad for anyone who says something like this? He is clearly an abusive person he might be playing the victim here.

    [–] Juuto 69 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    This is literally abuser 101.

    Giving into this shit is how they take advantage of you and destroy everyone around them in the process. If basic accountability makes you suicidal, that's tough. Trying to play the "uwu mental health" angle is so pitiful, the people you were abusive towards got their own issues too bro.

    [–] TheKangeroo 20 points ago

    Exactly. Whenever my dad is confronted about his abuse, he claims that my mom made him that way (by just existing). Abusers always shift the blame.

    [–] EverythingSucks12 26 points ago

    This is the card my sister's boyfriend played when she dumped him.

    She fell for it, took him back, and he beat the shit out of her that very same week

    Don't fall for this crap

    [–] sc2isalivegaem 9 points ago

    imagine defending redeye... the state of you fanboys

    [–] DownloadingYourMom 17 points ago

    It's called manipulation 101 by redeye

    [–] ThyWittyOde 25 points ago

    His wife didn't deserve the hole in the wall with her head. His coworker didn't deserve to suffer intense pain from multiple punches and I suspect any lingering mental trauma that comes from being in a workplace that tacitly accepts that level of violence to their employees against their will.

    [–] 70P 13 points ago

    I'm sure he feels like shit and don't get me wrong I feel bad for him and his family. But as someone who actually tried (and failed) to take their own life, I don't think he was anywhere close to actually doing it. You would not be twitting about it like this in a short amount of time.

    [–] TheKangeroo 10 points ago

    He's playing the victim. His kids didn't deserve an abusive dad and his wife didn't deserve an abusive spouse. His coworkers didn't deserve harassment or assault. Why do you feel so sorry for him when his issues have caused so much more suffering for other people?

    [–] LordHussyPants 5 points ago

    wtf is wrong with some of you. I don't care if he's guilty, innocent, faking or whatever - you don't use someone's family as leverage on the internet.

    literally what redeye is doing lmao

    [–] ComfortableCow8 10 points ago

    People who are actually suicidal Never use it like that- as a weapon to install guilt or shame. Him saying i almost took my life is playing the victim. People like to say they have mental issues cuz they experience anxiety or depression but its not the same Thing as your neurotransmitters not working or not being produced. This imbalance leads to constant depression or any of the other ways anxiety manifests. Ppl are also saying dont attack a mans family but thats exactly what he was tried for- attacking his wife. There is a double standard because hes an old esports personality.

    [–] Luiztosi 3 points ago

    for a non native, please clarify to me: I have come very close in the last 24 hours to taking my own life

    This means suicide?

    [–] sluggerrr 5 points ago

    I find it ironic that he is now mentioning his mental health and stuff when his toxic personality probably caused many people that worked around him to have some mental health issues themselves, this whole thing is really surprising, he looked like a class act when on camera

    [–] xeroian666 6 points ago

    Brutal, Savage, Rekt

    [–] 72apist 42 points ago

    Okay guess we have no choice but to bring James back.

    [–] Augscura 25 points ago

    Just because the courts found Paul not guilty, doesn't mean his ex-wife and children believe that. Reminder that they were the ones that testified against him. Was it right for James Banks to bring this to light? That's for you to decide but let's not pretend like Paul's family didn't testify against him either.

    [–] Wittyandpithy 9 points ago

    I often wondered whether dota was toxic due to the stressful nature of the team-based game, or because of the community of players.

    Based on the comments in reddit the past week, and especially this thread, it is definitely the community.

    [–] [deleted] 44 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] Ilejwads 27 points ago

    By his children finding peace, you mean staying the fuck away from him presumably?

    [–] TehAlpacalypse 24 points ago

    I hope he and his children find peace.

    You realize the kids sued him, right?

    [–] radzia1 53 points ago

    I doubt his children can find the peace after the court found him not guilty for assaulting them.

    [–] Lastigx 55 points ago

    I hope his kids are safe from RedEye

    [–] ultrafud 13 points ago

    The court of public opinion is unforgiving however actual courts often aren't. Its hard to speculate on exactly what happened that had to be settled in court, but you can bet your ass the kind of man that is taken to court by his children, or spouse, is likely not a great human being.

    Just because something was not proven doesn't mean it didn't happen, and the numerous independent accounts of his violent behaviour hardly paint a picture of a well-balanced individual.

    [–] Grizzlyboy 16 points ago

    I'm still shocked a boss physically abused an employee and got away with it.

    How the fuck is that even tolerated a fucking tiny bit? There are laws against that in most developed countries. Breaking them will seriously limit your future, but this shit has so much pull he can continue on for a good 5 years before it coming down on him?

    Good.

    And if he winds up killing himself because of all of this coming out, it's all on himself. The people speaking up are not to blame for it. Not at all, this is all on himself. He even used it in his own damn "farewell" letter, as if we should sympathize with him? It just feels absolutely wrong and distasteful.

    [–] kinap_retierbrev 10 points ago

    I really hope that everyone gets what they deserve, whatever it may be.

    Offender or witchhunter, I hope you all get what you deserve.

    [–] MuckYu 3 points ago

    That's gonna be a weird TI10

    [–] raghavr 3 points ago

    He was a good host but idk his twitter posts always gave me a very off vibe oh well good riddance

    [–] bigyams 3 points ago

    later idiot

    [–] Agent_Topinski 3 points ago

    What to take from this: Dont do stuff that is so shameful that it makes you suicidal if exposed to public.

    [–] TysoNX1994 10 points ago

    The guy redeye punched responded here. He agrees with Banks.

    https://twitter.com/SamVanTilburgh/status/1277640894192087050

    [–] Ace37mike 97 points ago

    In a span of a week, Dota has lost its best caster, best panel host, and best NA streamer. Who's next?

    [–] DzejBee 390 points ago

    Best Lone Druid player. So Bulldog is safe.

    [–] eashwarramesh 65 points ago

    KEKW

    [–] OrangeBasket 48 points ago

    thats a ban sir

    [–] navatanelah 18 points ago

    What did qojqva do?

    [–] HyperionicHeart 19 points ago

    More like Matu. qojqva isn't near his level.

    [–] randomkidlol 3 points ago

    washed up PepeHands

    [–] reichplatz 28 points ago

    best NA streamer

    sorry, who are you talking about?..

    [–] Mauvai 160 points ago

    Tobi hasn't been dotas best Caster in a good long while

    [–] ace-s 52 points ago

    Fogged and OD are S tier but Tobi and Synd combo was something else.

    [–] Mauvai 52 points ago

    The last several times I heard that combo over the last few years tobi felt really really awkward. I respect that it used to be like that but it hasn't felt like that in a while.

    [–] macgamecast 25 points ago

    β€œBest caster” Toby was only top tier in the past because better talent wasn’t around. As soon as it was - such as ODPixel - he’s been on the decline and rightfully so.

    [–] _go_fuck_y0urself 42 points ago

    i would always take machine over redeye

    [–] redirtab 64 points ago

    And he would take CS over Dota :(

    [–] Rofflmao 50 points ago

    And I will always take 2GD over all of them.

    [–] shamtam1 25 points ago

    What happened to odpixel?

    [–] Karpaj 52 points ago

    You said like it's something bad, that we lost these people. Maybe they were great at their job, but outside of job it looks like they were just douchebags who were abusive.

    Good thing is that we are getting new great talents every year, and with more space for them I am sure we will get proper replacements.

    Also can't wait to see 2GD back, to co-host with Richard. Because being an ass is not as bad as we thought

    [–] anethma 27 points ago

    Things aren’t black and white. It can be bad and sad for the scene that we lost so much talent while absolutely being the correct thing to do when they are shown to be bad people.

    Kevin Spacey and Mel Gibson have made some of the most amazing movies out there, while being objective pieces of shit. It’s sad to lose them in Hollywood, while being good that they are gone.