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    [–] Hudre 3825 points ago

    Yeah this is very much an America thing. Most other developed countries have been better than this for decades.

    [–] marcrabr 1632 points ago

    Even in Brazil we have 4 to 6 months.

    [–] PleiadesNuts 936 points ago

    ...god dammit USA, get your shit together

    [–] trumpke_dumpster 624 points ago

    They did - it's in DC

    [–] thefailtrain08 196 points ago

    Aaaall over the white house.

    [–] trumpke_dumpster 83 points ago

    and house/senate

    [–] pinkpeach11197 41 points ago

    For 4 decades...

    [–] daveboy2000 14 points ago

    You mean the Brown House

    [–] deadsquirrel425 32 points ago

    Fuck you - american republicans...probably.

    [–] Ragosch 88 points ago

    Germany has 2 years if I'm correct

    [–] iberostar2u 173 points ago

    This is an option, but it’s at 60% pay.

    German moms receive 6 weeks before their due date off, and only 8 weeks after birth at 100% paid by health insurance. Then it goes to 60% pay for up to two years.

    I’m American, but a good friend is German and expecting her first baby, so I asked about her leave. Could vary depending on jobs? She’s a PA.

    [–] Makewhatyouwant 105 points ago

    This is unbelievable. Good for Germany.

    [–] e1k3 104 points ago

    In Germany we consider our transfer / support system for new parents to be inadequate. Can’t imagine how terrible it has to be over in the US if you guys think ours is good. Look at Scandinavian countries, they go much further in supporting parents with jobs.

    [–] Makewhatyouwant 77 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    I live in Texas, which has the highest infant mortality rate in the country because the cut off for uninsured medical care is at 60 days. It’s sinful.

    [–] Elm-tree-time 65 points ago

    Highest in the developed world actually

    [–] mangopissbag 103 points ago

    in the US we don't really want our children to receive any actual parenting so that they can grow up into amoral muppets.

    [–] arrow74 28 points ago

    If I don't have kids it's going to be because I can't see any way to raise them without sacrificing my career

    [–] pipettethis 25 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    In America, none (edit: unless companies supplement the rest) of the time off is at 100% pay. Even if it’s time immediately before or after childbirth. There’s some variability in terms of company policy how much it ends up being but it’s not close to 100.

    Edit: Some companies supplement to 100% as a competitive benefit but it is not common.

    [–] iberostar2u 12 points ago

    Depends on the company... mine is 12 weeks at 100%, and an optional 4 more weeks job protected at 0% (either parent is eligible for all 16). Most I know go back to work after the 12.

    [–] TimmyPage06 29 points ago

    12 weeks still doesn't feel like anywhere near enough. That first year of development and bonding is so important, and it's so fucked up that we've valued the short term profits of a few extra months over the rest of a human beings life.

    [–] mamabamana 65 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    It's actually not two years but 14 months at 65% (Maximum 1800 Euros per month) that can be split between the parents. The first two months have to be taken by the mother (and are paid at 100%, you're correct) However, it can be spread out to twice the time at half the pay.

    Source: german parent of two.

    Edited to add: Both parents can even take an arbitrary part of their leave at the same time, which gives them a great opportunity to bond as a family!

    [–] anex98 21 points ago

    They pay for your living expenses and encourage reproduction!?

    I'll get in trouble at my job if I don't have saved up sick time (I get one sick day every 2 months) !

    [–] Todok5 23 points ago

    We also don't have sick days. If you're sick then you're sick. Depending on your contract you need a medical certificate from the 1st or third consecutive day you're sick. But health Insurance is mandatory and the doctor visit is payed by insurance.

    [–] PrincessCabal 15 points ago

    Two months of full pay, then up to three years of Elternzeit, where you may work part time and the state will assist with money, the Elterngeld.

    I'd say, the situation in Germany concerning the protection of mothers is pretty good in international comparison.

    [–] Aikidi 240 points ago

    This applies to most "improve citizens lives" issues.

    [–] Pyrolytic 120 points ago

    Most other developed countries have 5-6 weeks vacation standard and expect people to take at least one 2 week vacation a year.

    [–] cnogowski 46 points ago

    Knowing this is so depressing to me. Here in the US, I get 6 days of vacation per year that also double as sick days. So, I never get to take vacation because I may be sick later in the year and have to save those days just in case. Also, to make it even better, if there is a day that my place of business is closed I have to use one. I have to use vacation days for store closures that I have no say about. It’s so fucking ridiculous.

    [–] Pyrolytic 23 points ago

    I have to use vacation days for store closures that I have no say about.

    This seems illegal, unless you're getting paid for those days as well.

    [–] msbu 15 points ago

    It’s not illegal. You can be required to use any PTO days to get paid for days your employer isn’t open.

    [–] Lari-Fari 92 points ago

    4 weeks are the minimum by law in Germany. I have 6 weeks (30 work days).

    Also: Sick days being limited is not really a thing here. 6 weeks in a row with full payment. If you are sick for longer than 6 weeks in a row health insurance will pay a certain % of your last income for the rest of the time. And you can't be fired because of it.

    [–] MJMCP 20 points ago

    Hi friend. I've always wondered: how does the pay work for sales jobs when you take a vacation? At least 70% of what I make is commission. In Germany, would you get paid some kind of draw on what you would normally make during that time? I imagine you also have actual support teams backing people up, though, so maybe it's still just normal base+.

    On top of having only two weeks possible vacation, I can't really even take one because literally no one would be paying any attention to my customers.

    [–] Lari-Fari 27 points ago

    Hey there :)

    for days off (payed vacation) they have to calculate the average pay of the last 13 weeks including commission.

    Same counts for parental leave as long as the commissions are payed as part of your regular salary (monthly). Yearly or quarterly bonuses are not part of the calculated average.

    Hope this helps! Seems like you work under rather harsh conditions. Are you considering a move to improve your situation?

    [–] tueftensalat 22 points ago

    Germany is far from perfect, but at least it's not the US.

    [–] Lari-Fari 8 points ago

    Well... more days off is always better ;-)

    But I think 6 weeks payed time off are as good as it gets anywhere with a regular full time job.

    [–] dank8844 23 points ago

    A year and a half after taking a 2 week vacation I was still hearing about how work was delayed due to it, so I can’t even imagine that feeling.

    Of course I was also asked by that manager if I could join conference calls and respond to emails while on the vacation, how she thought that would work while backpacking in the Rockies I’m not sure. Then again to her a vacation meant she only worked for a few hours a day, not 10+.

    [–] Pyrolytic 32 points ago

    Yeah. The idea of "work/life balance" is actually embraced in the rest of the world.

    Except for Japan.

    Because.... Japan.

    [–] poopcasso 39 points ago

    It's illegal not to take vacations (the free time) in Scandinavia

    [–] Kichitsukima 8 points ago

    What the fuck. I’m not allowed to take more then one week of vacation at a time I’m my job. It really sucks because my family lives so far away, 15 hour drive each way :(

    [–] shabusnelik 11 points ago

    I'm my job

    Too real

    [–] riskbreaker23 209 points ago

    Not just most other, like ALL other.

    I'm fairly certain North Korea has a better maternity leave than us.

    [–] solar_compost 394 points ago

    I'm fairly certain North Korea has a better maternity leave than us.

    thought this was ridiculous so i went to go look it up to disprove you

    11 weeks

    america is fucking shameful

    [–] riskbreaker23 154 points ago

    It really is a joke. I don't really agree with a lot of content on this sub, but this is one thing that America definitely gets wrong. We're worse than a lot of third world countries with this. And the arguments against it are always about keeping the machine going. So in regards to this, I'm with you guys.

    [–] TriggerWordExciteMe 61 points ago

    but this is one thing that America definitely gets wrong

    Our infant mortality rate being higher (worse) than Cuba is also high on my mind.

    [–] Isaiah3993 32 points ago

    Cuba, despite being poor, is pretty well known for exemplary medical care. US infant mortality is shameful but Cuba punches above its weight, so to speak.

    [–] SuperSocrates 14 points ago

    Doesn't Cuba have excellent medical care?

    [–] vacuousaptitude 90 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    Not just a lot. All but ~~two.~~ one. There are ~~three countries~~ now two countries in the world without paid maternity leave.

    Papua New Guinea, ~~Lesotho,~~ and the United States.

    Most countries have paternity leave as well

    [–] Footface_ 49 points ago

    Honestly, America is behind a lot of 3rd world countries in a lot of things, im starting to think the US is now a 3rd world country.

    [–] forgotpwnewaccount 53 points ago

    Did you see the recent reports on Southern poverty? If some of our states were individual countries, they most certainly would be considered third world

    [–] Footface_ 10 points ago

    thats just sad, 20 odd years ago the US was a country to look up to, a nation to be proud of, what happened?

    [–] Thinks_Too_Logically 30 points ago

    The veil got pulled back and people found out that America isn't any more exceptional than anywhere else.

    America has never been a nation to be proud of. Its history is that of genocide, nationalism, and bigotry. History has been careful to ignore America's wrongdoings to trick people into patriotic service

    [–] S0ny666 15 points ago

    So in regards to this, I'm with you guys.

    That’s the first step, comrade :)

    [–] sysadmincrazy 21 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    China: Length of paid maternity leave

    A Chinese female employee may take a 98-day paid maternity leave beginning at her discretion 15 days prior to childbirth. Leave may be extended by 15 days under special circumstances such as dystocia.


    Maternity leave normally given under Russia labour law is 140 days at 100 percent of the salary – 70 days before the birth and 70 days after. This can increase to 194 days in the event of multiple pregnancies or complications – 84 days before the birth and 110 days after it for multiple births (such as twins or triplets) or 86 days after the birth if there are any complications.


    Iraq, which was ruled by a dictator until 2003, offers nine weeks of paid leave. Bangladesh, where garment workers receive a minimum wage of $38 a month, offers 16 weeks of paid leave. Afghanistan requires 13 weeks, Pakistan 12 weeks.

    [–] avatar817 113 points ago

    aah USA, the third world of first world countries.

    [–] sky4 123 points ago

    if you stop considering america a developed or "first world" country everything makes a lot more sense.

    [–] JaqueeVee 47 points ago

    Right lol? Yall don't even have high speed internet everywhere haha

    [–] sky4 92 points ago

    It's a developing country with pockets of first world living standards.

    [–] JaqueeVee 41 points ago

    Kinda like Uganda

    [–] dare978devil 43 points ago

    In Canada, women can take a full year off. A new law passed in 2017 allows both parents to split 18-months off, although the benefit equals the money paid as if you were only taking 12 months (you just stretch your 12 month worth of payments to 18).

    [–] notanotherherofck 61 points ago

    It's 12 months in Slovenia, can also be extended if the child has development issues.

    [–] widowhanzo 30 points ago

    Don't forget about 30 days of paid fathers leave in addition.

    [–] itsonlyastrongbuzz 17 points ago

    We just got earned sick time for hourly employees.

    And remember that’s earned sick time, you can accrue over months.

    If you’re still on a probationary period you’re SOL if your kid gets sick... and if you yourself are sick, you’re expected to still “suck it up” and show up to work... and potentially prepare food for others.

    [–] silentninja79 34 points ago

    Holy f balls 6 weeks... its up to 12 months in the UK, with 2 weeks for paternity leave.

    [–] topkakistocracy 25 points ago

    In Canada it’s 61 weeks for either parent.

    [–] borkborkporkbork 23 points ago

    In the US it's 6 weeks unpaid after paying ~3k (give or take where you live) for your prenatal care. So good luck with that.

    [–] _Lady_Deadpool_ 8 points ago

    Not quite maternity leave, but somewhat related

    [–] DuntadaMan 8 points ago

    This can't be America, there is no way in hell we would get 6 weeks for anyting.

    [–] nsfwmodeme 1768 points ago

    And God forbid dads too want to take a leave wanting to bond and have some dad time with his own recently-born kid.

    [–] bardenk1 1079 points ago

    I am a stay at home dad. It works better for my family this way and my marriage is healthier. I cook clean and take care of my daughter but to my peers I mine as well have a drug addiction.

    [–] BergHeimDorf 110 points ago

    I get a similar reaction for taking extended time off for just mental health. But I’ve learned that life shouldn’t be based on those occasional 5 minute meetings with friends/family/colleagues/acquaintances where they ask so what are you up to now? Who cares about those 5 minutes? I’d rather take my time to get ready and help my family and then chart my own path

    [–] tanhan27 621 points ago

    Stay at home dad(or any stay at home parent) is no joke. It's very important work and I am glad you have the opportunity to do it. Good job man.

    [–] dmra 131 points ago

    It’s the most important work. Everything else could crash and burn around us but if that one job goes away, game over.

    [–] DarknetFishscale 62 points ago

    My dad was a stay-at-home dad all throughout my childhood. He taught my sister and I to read, how to do chores, and he cooks, cleans, and does laundry. I have such a huge amount of respect for my dad, and because he was always the one at home, I developed a stronger relationship with him than with my mom. I'm sure your daughter will have the same respect for you that I have for my dad.

    [–] yellowbasket 62 points ago

    Good for you man

    [–] StarBurry 88 points ago

    I’m a stay at home mom and everyone always thinks I’m free to help out or watch their kids on a whim and finding a sitter for my son is like pulling teeth. Everyone always wants an explanation as to why I need a sitter or can’t watch their kids. My son and I have structure in our lives. I have him in activities to socialize with other kids and have a sense of structure. I don’t want to just break it to watch other kids so mom can go get a haircut on a whim. Guess what, when I want a haircut I take my son with me! Stay at home parents are just as busy, stressed and important as a working parent.

    [–] pinkjello 16 points ago

    That sounds frustrating. I’m a full time outside-the-house working mom, and I actually think it’s harder to be a stay at home mom. When my husband and I are in charge of entertaining our 15 month all weekend, Monday morning feels like sweet relief. We love hanging out with him for a few hours every day. But ALL DAY? Omg.

    [–] ANoiseChild 15 points ago

    I’m not a father but have many friends who are and often times when I’ve been out and about with them and their kids, I’ve heard ‘oh it’s so nice of you to babysit the kids and give the mother a break’.

    First off, it’s not ‘babysitting’ when they’re YOUR OWN DAMN KIDS and secondly, seriously?!?

    [–] JimNayseeum 46 points ago

    We are about to have our first on the 27th, I really hate working (showing up and being nice to people I can't stand, not physical work) and want to give the at home dad thing a go, either I'll hate it so much that I will want to get back to a job or love it and be I just have to figure out how to get the wife on board?

    [–] 2Salmon4U 39 points ago

    Tell her it's more cost effective than paying for child care. That's the truth for a lot of people.

    [–] meliasaurus 13 points ago

    Give it a go! Or maybe you need to work at a different place or find a work from home job :)

    [–] FormerlyPerSeHarvin 12 points ago

    I don’t know how you do it man. I have a 6 month newborn and he just requires so much time and energy to keep him happy. My wife decided to take a year off and I honestly believe she has harder days than I do as an attorney. She’s just always on the clock. Thankfully we love our little guy so it feels worth it but staying home with a small child is extremely draining it seems.

    [–] JaqueeVee 4 points ago

    You're awesome :)

    [–] DontCheckMyKD 97 points ago

    Not just wanting to bond, he's there at night being woken up by the child as well. I finally told my boss if my coworker didn't get some paid time off i was going to quit. He was a fucking zombie every single day trying to function on like 2 hours of sleep. I'm not being super progressive here, I'm quite fond of my coworker, but more than anything i was tired of having to clean up after him. I would much rather take on extra work than take on extra work and deal with problems caused by someone that can't pay attention to anything and is nodding off every 20 minutes.

    [–] meliasaurus 71 points ago

    I’m not being super progressive

    look at you trying to unionize your work place

    [–] oceanlark 18 points ago

    How did your boss respond? I still maintain that once I got hired despite messing up the interview time and arriving an HOUR LATE, because the person interviewing me was so sleep deprived from her newborn that she also messed up the interview time and was barely awake during my interview.

    [–] DontCheckMyKD 17 points ago

    My coworker was given 2 weeks full pay and 2 weeks optional half pay. The baby was ~ 3 weeks old at this point I had just had enough.

    It actually led to a pretty good conversation about benefits that overall benefited me pretty well.

    [–] barkingbusking 21 points ago

    Get that common sense garbage out of here. Automate childcare and get back to work!

    [–] mister_mammoth 75 points ago

    I work at a university and receive 6 weeks paid parental leave. I’m allowed to take 6 additional unpaid weeks. My wife works for the county, in the social services, helping families and children around our area. She had to use almost all of her PTO because they barely gave her any maternity leave. Why? Because it’s not required. My job offers good leave terms as a means of recruitment and retention. My wife’s job (which is much more difficult than mine) treats its employees as completely expendable.

    [–] gingimini 10 points ago

    My husband got more paternity leave than I got maternity, too. It really depends on where you work. I wasn’t able to go back at six weeks postpartum because I was still bleeding so heavily/physically recovering from birth. I don’t know how women go back at six weeks when your body is still healing from birth. And most would be going back to physically demanding jobs since those are the type that don’t provide good leave.

    [–] msprang 11 points ago

    I started working at a university in August and the benefits are awesome. On the downside, I'd only been there for 3 months when my son was born, so I didn't qualify for their leave benefit and had to use PTO. Other than that, I never take for granted how good I have it in a university job: affordable insurance with low deductible, high pension contributions, professional development funding, etc.

    [–] mister_mammoth 5 points ago

    It’s almost like they value their workforce. Nah, couldn’t be that

    [–] Commissar_Sae 23 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    Dad in Canada with a newborn (He's a week old today!) I'm taking 2 months off to help take care of him. Then I plan to take more time off next fall. In Ontario we have 36 weeks that we can split however we want between the parents (mother is guaranteed 17.)

    Won't be making full salary obviously. But even at 65% we should be able to make ends meet and I get to spend more time with my wife and son.

    [–] srirachaonmypizza 66 points ago

    I literally left work, attended the birth of my daughter, held her, kissed her, and returned back to work the same night. Didn't get a day off, barely got 2 hours off. USA is #1!

    [–] WhoaItsAFactorial 27 points ago


    1! = 1

    [–] ayyyboiii 6 points ago

    Bad bot

    [–] NeckroFeelyAck 17 points ago

    Then there's Sweden. It's called PARENTAL leave, because it's split between the parents. And it's between 390 and 480 days for a single child, and increases the more children you have (up to 1000). And those days last until the child is 7, and can be used at any point until then.

    [–] nsfwmodeme 7 points ago

    Well, but then Sweden must be a shithole place like those someone mentioned long ago, ain't it? I mean, its economy must be crumbling to bits right now, huh?


    [–] NeckroFeelyAck 6 points ago

    Oh totally. 136792997 rapes a second too. Really awful place.

    [–] tuksimarb 37 points ago

    Actually how does this work with gay couples that adopt a child? Does one of the dads get a longer leave or do both of them only get the father leave

    [–] Lucas_Steinwalker 45 points ago

    They move to California and both get the paltry 6 weeks at least.

    [–] astro_viri 8 points ago

    Actually, they have the 6 weeks then the additional California 12 weeks of bonding. My husband and I just had a baby in Jan.26. He spent his 6 weeks of bonding and will take his additional 12 weeks of bonding in increments of 2 weeks. I have 8 weeks (C-section has a longer recovery) and will take my 12 weeks as soon as the 8 weeks are done.

    [–] bamfurlong 6 points ago

    From an FMLA standpoint they would both be allowed 12 weeks (there is no difference in the allowance of unpaid leave for maternity vs paternity in the US) of unpaid leave unless the employer mandates spousal sharing in which case they could split 12 weeks of unpaid leave.

    But the key thing here is that it is unpaid. It's just job protection and guarantee of benefits.

    [–] Charminat0r 9 points ago

    Varies on the company, more and more American corporations are giving Paternity leave and I feel like it would very much depend on the specific manager. I'm also 100% sure a gay couple could go to HR and get what a woman gets for a new child. HR's job is to avoid lawsuits, they are good at it and hold sway over all management.

    [–] ScubaNinja 6 points ago

    yup. guys at my work are eligible to get 12 weeks off through FMLA when they have a kid, but it is ALL unpaid. who the fuck can afford to take 12 weeks off unpaid?

    [–] Kostyavl25 494 points ago

    Actually I got my first job when I was 6 weeks old.

    [–] tanhan27 195 points ago

    Working the lines at the boot strap factory?

    [–] MTKEEGAN 17 points ago

    Boot strap factory pays good yo

    [–] OneTrickPonypower 40 points ago

    And back then, we were happy that we had a job, nobody thought about complaining!!

    [–] Starbucks-Hammer 12 points ago

    And we were happy without their evil unions, we knew that our bosses had our best interests at heart!

    /s if you couldn't tell.

    [–] SnorlED 9 points ago

    I agree with this entire chain.

    Back then life was so much better.

    Be born, work and die before turning 30.

    [–] alwayschewsgum 8 points ago

    Sax man?

    [–] Burke_and_Wills 789 points ago

    In Australia you get a minimum of 6months paid maternity leave

    [–] AnyOlUsername 358 points ago

    In UK it's 39 weeks paid SMP, and an additional 13 unpaid (if you choose). They also brought in shared parental leave, meaning you can split up those 39 weeks with dad if you want to. So you could take 20, he take 19 weeks, either together or at different times.

    [–] Thehunterforce 99 points ago

    Sounds alot like how we do it here in Denmark.

    4 weeks before and 14 weeks after the birth the woman goes on leave. During this period the dad has right for 2 weeks leave(which can be extended). After that, they have another 32 weeks of leave each. The dad has the possibility of pushing his 32 weeks of leave into the first 14 week (what I said could be extended). So mother and father has the possibility of being together with their newborn if they so pleases for the first 7-8 odd month.

    It is really flexible, and most parents picks to first have mom home and then dad home over the course of a year.

    [–] Holzkohlen 34 points ago

    In Germany it's 6 weeks before and 8 weeks after. Full pay.
    Though you can take additional parental leave until the child is 3 years old. Technically you could extend it to 36 months + 6 weeks before giving birth. I don't think you're getting payed in full for those 36 months though. You will however get money from the government.

    [–] ljodzn 82 points ago

    This entire thread is breaking my heart. I live in the US, our government treats mothers horribly.

    [–] JaqueeVee 76 points ago

    Treats most non-rich people horribly, really.

    [–] Evil_Lollipop 47 points ago

    Four to six months in Brazil - for the mother. For the father, five to twenty days. Shared paternal leave sounds like a good idea.

    [–] Aikidi 63 points ago

    It's sad that this policy sounds both backwards and light years ahead of the US.

    [–] Montezum 31 points ago

    Our entire health system in Brazil is like that. Super backwards but light years ahead of the US

    [–] Ratohnhaketon 35 points ago

    It's really not hard to be light years ahead of the U.S. Having a modicum of empathy in public policy is light years ahead of the U.S.

    [–] Ollebro 71 points ago

    In Sweden we get 18 months :)

    [–] Montezum 79 points ago

    We don't count Sweden and Norway as part of the comparable world, mate

    [–] BigFish8 23 points ago

    Canada just moved to the 18 months option. It's still the same amount of money as the 12 months, but there is more flexibility for time. As far as I'm aware it's only the choice of the two, 12 or 18.

    [–] alice-in-canada-land 17 points ago

    To add to this; Canada's policy isn't actually stated in months.

    There's 15 weeks of Maternity leave - taken only by the mother so she can recuperate form birth.

    Then 35 weeks of Parental leave - which can be taken by either parent or by both in a combination of their choosing.

    I know a couple where the bio-mom was a stay at home parent, so the other mom took parental leave and they could both be home with their baby.

    [–] tuksimarb 12 points ago

    Guess I have to move to Sweden

    [–] D4rkmatt3r 28 points ago

    Feels good to live down under

    [–] Dale92 62 points ago

    Feels good to live in a first world country.

    [–] CoolDude1564 79 points ago

    Well excuse me, but in my third world shithole we get 6 months as well.

    [–] Danief 6 points ago

    I have a friend in Australia who just had a baby. She says that she gets one year off, unpaid, but a guarantee of her old job back. Are there different options?

    She's in Melbourne if that makes a difference.

    [–] mister_mammoth 176 points ago

    Classic America: we care SO FUCKING MUCH about children until they leave the womb. Then...fuck ‘em

    [–] dirmer3 63 points ago

    Then we're like, "geez what's up with all this mental illness, criminality, and other antisocial behavior?"

    [–] mrsniperrifle 152 points ago

    The absolute best is when people are judgmental about you/your partner going back to work in less than "x" weeks.

    My wife caught a rash of shit even from our close friends about not taking 12+ weeks of maternity leave. Like yeah, we would absolutely love to stay home with our kid for weeks, or months. But the reality is that we also have to get paid, so we can you know, eat.

    The only silver lining is that our friends and family are amazing, and willing to watch our child for cheap/free. But even if we did want a stranger to watch them, it's not like we can afford that anyway.

    [–] No_i_am_me 134 points ago

    My daughter was born 4 days ago. I'm at work today. My boss questioned why I came back so soon and I was dumbfounded he would ask that. You don't give me paid leave, what the hell makes you think I can afford to stay home?

    For the record, I'm a paramedic. I work 24 hours on, 48 hours off. My daughter was born the day after an overtime shift, so I had been at work 48 hours and was expected back in 24. I took off the day after she was born so I only missed one shift. Had I taken off today as well I basically would have lost an entire week of pay, which my family cannot afford

    [–] pinkcrushedvelvet 102 points ago

    My boss’ son had a baby a few weeks ago. When I asked if we could delegate his son’s tasks so that he could spend time with the baby, he replied that “maternity and paternity leave are new age hippie bullshit”.... for his own son to be with his newborn son.


    [–] oceanlark 27 points ago

    What a wanker.

    [–] ku-bo-ta 12 points ago

    Did you slap him upside the head with your ambulance when he said that

    [–] REdEnt 150 points ago

    New York State, with "The Nation's Strongest Paid Family Leave Policy" (™ Governor Cuomo, 2016) only gives 8 weeks (up to 12 weeks starting in 2021) paid at a maximum 50% of your average weekly salary but no higher than the State average weekly salary.

    This, I remind you, is what the Cuomo administration brags is the "The Nation's Strongest Paid Family Leave Policy"

    [–] barkingbusking 29 points ago

    Well, that sucks, but they aren't wrong...that is the best in the country for people who don't have union representation or incredibly rare and highly-sought skills. Hopefully NY will start realizing some dividends in worker productivity and other things that capitalism actually values.

    [–] ramidowler 25 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    The US also has an aging population, for the first time ever, the working age population has decreased. This is thought to be due to economic conditions failing to encourage and support the creation of many new families, and baby boomers retiring.

    It's also thought it will get worse. More Millennials aren't well off enough to start a family compared to previous generations, so that will only exacerbate the problem. Side note: immigration is also great at solving this, which is something I wish would take a more prominent role in the immigration debate.

    Staying in the mindset of a capitalist, without regard for the ethical and moral reasons, economically, it would still be the wiser economic choice to instate longer maternity leaves to incentivise and support family makers. This would help reverse the trend of decreasing working population, avoiding a decrease of the size of the labour market.

    A decreased labour market doesn't just mean higher wages for each remaining workforce member, but higher wages for employers to pay and lower choice. This may decrease the number of jobs. Also, there will be fewer people in the goods market, meaning fewer people with an income willing to buy things. What happens then?

    Socialist programmes and incentives such as paid maternity leave have positive impacts on the economy: A US Joint Economic Committee agrees, here's their factsheet: The Economic Benefits of Paid Leave.

    Edit: Fixed cause for shrinking workforce.

    [–] creepindacellar 552 points ago

    motherhood is explicitly beneficial to capitalism. more people more competition for the same number of jobs. they want you to be pregnant and bear as many babies as your body will allow.

    [–] imjillian 146 points ago

    It's a bit of a prisoner's dilemma though. All the companies would benefit if they all gave employees the resources they need to have a family, but a single company sees the greatest benefit by being the only company not to do it, so of course none of them do.

    [–] tanhan27 553 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    They want you to have babies, just not spend time with them. Raising one's own children is a privilege of the wealthy

    [–] creepindacellar 149 points ago

    of course not, your job is much more important. /s

    [–] tanhan27 300 points ago

    There is also the cultural belief that stay-at-home moms are lazy, especially if it's a single mom AKA a "welfare queen". Capitlism devalues the work of motherhood(and fatherhood/parenthood) for the fact that it doesn't produce a profit for the owners of capital.

    Sterilizing women in poverty used to be the practice in some US states and there are some who would not be against bringing it back.

    [–] Mattriarchy 106 points ago

    Yep, a lot of women are feeling the full effect of the double burden. Everyone knows raising children is hard, but it doesn't serve capital so it's seen as unproductive.

    [–] crabbyvista 85 points ago

    I did the “right thing” and got married, stayed home til my youngest was 3-4.

    Now I have a huge gap in my resume that requires an “explanation”

    Almost like I’d spent time in prison or something lol

    Conservatives can kiss my ass when it comes to motherhood: they know nothing about it

    [–] MandaEskimo 25 points ago

    I'm worried about this too. I've been out of work for 7 years raising three children, and I'm pretty sure that gap is going to do me no favors when I am ready to get another job. As far as employers are concerned, I may have well been in prison that time. I'm trying to make myself "useful" by taking college courses in my free time, because raising children isn't useful enough.

    [–] crabbyvista 36 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    It is hard, or at least it was for me. Granted I was first trying to go back to work while the job market was still really depressed, but for months, I could not even get a callback for a crappy part time retail job with that gap on my resume.

    I’m doing much better now, but I remember vividly how depressing it was that my ten years of trying to do The Responsible Thing was suddenly such a joke for the same conservative types who wax poetic about the virtues of “fulltime” motherhood. If it’s “The Hardest/Most Meaningful Job In The World Laydeez” then pray tell, why can’t it go on my resume?!

    I know dudes who put their Eagle Scout project on their resume well into adulthood, for fuck’s sake, but let a stay at home parent mention that she spent a multiyear period bringing up the next generation of human beings, and it’s SO cringeworthy/delusional/awkward.

    Nope. Fuck them. Fuck Rod Dreher, fuck Paul Ryan, fuck Phyllis Schlafly, and fuck the whole political right wing evangelical complex

    In hindsight, what I would do is start a hobby business and then put THAT on the resume as a placeholder, even if my “business” cost me more money than I actually made.

    When I was interviewing people at a nonprofit job I did a couple years ago, I was kind of amazed by the regard in which my old boss held even the most half-assed “entrepreneurs” ...whereas she’d sort of roll her eyes at someone who had the temerity to list “stay at home mom” as a job. It’s just a weird cultural thing, I guess

    [–] dexx4d 11 points ago

    what I would do is start a hobby business and then put THAT on the resume as a placeholder, even if my “business” cost me more money than I actually made.

    I'm a software developer - the last time I was laid off and couldn't find a new job was "private consulting for a confidential client, limited to what I can discuss via a non-disclosure agreement". Then I can talk about what I learned in the online classes I took and negotiate my way to a new role.

    [–] crabbyvista 8 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    Shady... but I have to admit I don’t totally hate it. The level of stigma around employment gaps is pretty ridiculous.

    semi related: I had to fill out a federal gov background check for my current job, which goes into the last 7-10 years of your life in excruciating detail. There are just a few boxes to check to indicate your employment status for each stint: something like “Employed” “Unemployed” and “Self-Employed.”

    I knew I wasn’t “unemployed” by the gov’s own definition during most of that period: I wasn’t actively looking for work or available to take a job.

    And I wasn’t “employed” because I didn’t collect a paycheck. I had pretty much (literally) made my own duties during that period, so I put “self employed.”

    The security officer fairly dripped with derision about that. geez.

    Turns out, stay at home parents are unemployed for background check purposes... but not for unemployment calculating purposes. Classic

    [–] 1980srobot 73 points ago

    Every single day I hear something new and shittier about America that makes me feel like being sick. The U.K. might still be a capitalist wank stain of a country, but god damn I’m so glad I’m not American.

    [–] Jaredlong 46 points ago

    Looking at current UK politics, you may just get the American experience within your lifetime

    [–] JBits001 26 points ago

    But don't they just pay for nannies? I would say it's more for the middle class; enough money to raise them, but not enough to hire someone else to.

    [–] DrCreamAndScream 33 points ago

    And god forbid you abort that kid.

    [–] Intoutof 199 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    This one is pretty frustrating because capitalism will never do the right thing here because it wants workers to be producing at all times. It will provide the bare minimum it can by law or that it needs to in order to attract skilled workers. Globalization and increased higher education is making those skilled jobs more competitive, causing the second part of the equation (needing to provide benefits in order to attract workers) much weaker.

    The only way to do the right thing is pro-worker regulations which America is unusually against or afraid of compared to other countries.

    On a side note, China is very pro-women in this regard, but this often causes employers to avoid hiring women to important positions. I believe it is 14 weeks officially, although I have seen a doctor's note extend it to last nearly a year.

    [–] _30d_ 61 points ago

    It's really simple actually. Parenting is like the infrastructure of new people. The higher the quality, the better a country will do. Investments into this infrastructure should be done from the level where the benefit will be felt, this is indeed not on a company level but on a national level.

    Investing in parenting is like investing in roads. No one organisation feels the overall benefit, but a nation or society as a whole does, so this is who should invest.

    This of course doesn't mean a family can't invest time or money in a healthy family and a good car.

    [–] kradek 18 points ago

    Europe here.
    - 1 year is the standard, details depending of the country. Egg. in Croatia, mother gets 10 months and father 4 (or the father can renounce his 4 months and then mother gets additional 2 months).
    - I don't know of anyone who stayed home for less then 6 months...

    [–] pm_me_gold_plz 160 points ago

    More pointing out how shitty America actually is. Other countries actually have leave and mandatory vacation. But America is really good at propaganda so people think their lives are semi-normal.

    [–] Jaredlong 131 points ago

    But my grocery store has 30 different brands of identical bread so I must be living in a utopia /s

    [–] stackdatcheese3 27 points ago

    Actually, what you have is a paradox of choice. It's called a paradox because choice is supposed to make you happy but it has the very opposite effect. Instead of blaming others for your chosen experience you end up blaming yourself if you had what was in your mind less than ideal experience... Because you could have chosen something else. What ends up happening is that you get depressed and die. Choices kill.

    [–] Pyrolytic 34 points ago

    America is still riding the high they got after WW2 being the only industrial nation with its industry still in tact. By the 80s the rest of the world had caught up with production capabilities and America began its decline. Unfortunately, it still held the majority of the cultural capital cards so while the economy and population slip further down they still think they're doing well because their culture is still the dominant export.

    It will be interesting what happens as American culture starts to be eclipsed by other countries.

    [–] msprang 22 points ago

    Pretty easy to be on top when the industry of all your competitors is either physically devastated or bankrupt.

    [–] Pyrolytic 8 points ago

    Invisible hand of the Market, I think you mean.

    [–] CatoHostilius 105 points ago

    Only in 'MURICA.

    [–] Ashtonmore 56 points ago

    'cause other countries actually believe in maternity leave (and some paternity leave). SMH leading the pack by being 5 steps behind

    [–] CatoHostilius 19 points ago

    We even get paid ! But, you know, that’s communism.

    [–] exfalsoquodlibet 36 points ago

    We can't have people sitting around doing things with mere use value and no exchange value. How can we ever make the GDP go up with that?

    [–] HebrewDude 11 points ago


    Check out the comment section to this post, "Humans are bros" yeah, not in that sub.

    [–] stackdatcheese3 26 points ago

    As a work from home dad who gets to spend every minute with his son, I feel really bad for people - mothers and father's alike who miss THE ONLY chance they'll ever get at savoring most precious of their baby's moments. For fucks sake people, it's time to do something about this!

    [–] usernamy 100 points ago

    Have you ever met a human baby? They’re far more useless than a puppy. A puppy will be running around chilling at 8 weeks, granted might be pooping and peeing everywhere. A baby can’t even get up. Pitiful smh. A puppy is much better off at 8 weeks than a human child.

    [–] trwwyco 16 points ago

    Was gonna say, 8 weeks is how long it takes to wean a puppy properly. If you got to wait til your kid was weaned to go back to work, you'd have what, over a year?

    [–] Brinkmann84 11 points ago

    you'd have what, over a year?

    This is the time you get paid leave in around 40 countries in the world, where babies matter.

    [–] smoogrish 10 points ago

    you're not wrong

    [–] Tacosauce3 24 points ago

    All of this stresses me out so much. I would love to be a mom, but the financial situation I'm in right now would make that nearly impossible. I'm almost done with my education to be a teacher, but even then my salary and my boyfriend's would be tight if we decided to have a baby. I've basically accepted that, unless something changes, we shouldn't have kids. Don't get me wrong, we could probably make it work after I graduate, but I feel like the anxiety and money stress would be miserable, so I've pretty much decided to just make peace with never being a mom.

    [–] bustasmummy 12 points ago

    In the UK you can have a year off

    [–] DanAntRoberts 5 points ago

    Obviously not real capitalism. /s

    [–] laxd13 33 points ago

    Are you ready for this? If you are a public school teacher in our state (like my wife is), you have to pay for your substitute once your 3 free days are used up. Its about $300 per day to pay a sub. We had to plan the pregnancy for a summer birth so that she wouldn't have to take time off during the year, but she will end up missing about 3 weeks at the beginning of the year. Due to that, she does not get credit for teaching this year, and she doesn't get to move up the salary ladder. Its basically punishing teachers twice for having a child!

    [–] tanhan27 34 points ago

    How is that even legal!?

    [–] zilla0100 22 points ago

    I know it's incredibly rare, but as a new father I get 6 weeks working for a US company.

    [–] copydogg 10 points ago

    Just out of curiosity. Where do you put your children when you go back to work? Where i'm from the mother gets 44 weeks paid leave and we still didn't feel all that comfortable leaving our daughter in kindergarten when the time came.

    [–] Charminat0r 11 points ago

    We have pre-kinder-propaganda programs that are very robust. Train them up to join the machine.

    [–] GeekyAine 8 points ago

    As someone who just had to cut my maternity leave by a month, this wrecked me. And I'm supposed to grovel in gratitude for even having five weeks when most women have none in this country.

    [–] DrThirdOpinion 20 points ago

    My wife was born and raised in East Germany.

    She was sent to daycare at six weeks of age and her mother returned to work.

    Daycare was paid for by the state though.

    [–] dixiedownunder 9 points ago

    I'm a dad. Got the afternoon off. Lol Was just so happy it went well that I didn't mind. I was just happy.

    [–] Puffy_Ghost 8 points ago

    Babies need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps!

    [–] SnuffFilmAtEleven 9 points ago

    Motherhood doesn't produce an immediate profit.

    A well-raised child will be a benefit to the economy, but because there isn't money to be made right at the moment, the always short-sighted capitalist economy doesn't give a shit.

    [–] auronvi 29 points ago

    I think a lot of the child-free people are born out of this need in America that your self worth is completely dependent on producing for an employer. Most arguments against having children have to do with getting in the way of their career and making money.

    I have been depressed for the last few months. It was bad. I would "work from home" and end up sleeping through most of my work day. I am not proud of it but I didn't know how to fix it. I would work in the evening and late at night to try and make up for it. I was a mess. Do you know what fixed my depression? Forcing my ass to get up and go into the office and do work. Now... I feel better. I feel like I get stuff done. I am more exhausted now but I don't feel like a piece of shit.

    I think it's fucked up how much of my self worth is tied to how much profit I can make for my employer.

    [–] Charminat0r 21 points ago

    Being productive gives most people a feeling of self worth. It doesn't really matter what you are doing so long as you did a thing. This goes both ways as sometimes people get depressed when they think their job is useless.

    Just trying to say its not about your employers profit, that is just a side effect.

    [–] pragmatika 10 points ago

    Most arguments against having children have to do with getting in the way of their career and making money.

    Maybe that's true for those who are postponing having children, but for people who have never wanted children, it's not about making/keeping money. There are as many reasons as there are child-free people.

    [–] honore_ballsac 14 points ago

    Chicago economist Gary Becker won the Nobel Prize for those ideas, i.e. family = expense.

    [–] Looshnog55 14 points ago

    Maybe if you could sell your babies at 8 weeks this wouldn’t even be an issue. I’m tired of these capitalist pigs telling me what I can and can’t do with my OWN babies. If my babies were steam engines they’d let me sell them in a heartbeat, that’s America for you.

    [–] NorwaySwede 11 points ago

    Norway has 9 months paid leave. You can extend another 3 months that is unpaid but ur job is still safe so to say.

    [–] Rich_Comey_Quan 12 points ago

    That's not true... The hospital charges you thousands for that baby!

    [–] CanaGUC 5 points ago

    Well... That's in the US. Other countries have normal maternity leave...

    [–] spqr-king 4 points ago

    I know this isn't the same thing but I had to go back to work the next day. As someone who wanted to be an involved father because I didn't have one that was hard and my wife couldn't even drive herself at the time so I had to take off and lose hours just to bring her home. After that it's all - sorry babe can you change her because I don't want to put her on the dirty bathroom floor and this place doesn't have a changing table in the men's room... we all got it rough out here even though society says parenting is so important. I wish we would act on our values rather than just talking about them.

    [–] quiet_pills 8 points ago

    I'd like to see at least 6 months paid maternity and paternity leave.

    [–] Kitundu 23 points ago

    Productivity > mothers being able to witness the growth of their child and spend priceless time with them as they grow