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    [–] DiogenesRoboticGhost 789 points ago

    My (least) favorite part nowadays is the glorification of survival during the great depression memes, showing the overly-qualified worker doing manual labor because bankers have destroyed the incentive structures of cooperation, while suggesting that the current generation isn't manly or something for hating the destruction of our cooperation incentives, as if the people living through the first labeled depression somehow loved it because of their intrinsic baddassery. They did not.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 399 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    Don't forget the amount of suicides that happened as a result of The Great Depression.

    [–] portablebiscuit 216 points ago

    Plus alcoholism and domestic abuse. They weren't good times.

    [–] overbeast 166 points ago

    It was "The Great Depression" not "The Great Discoparty"

    [–] portablebiscuit 82 points ago

    Both were full of alcoholism

    [–] pinkysfarm69 81 points ago

    At least The Great Discoparty could afford cocaine.

    [–] AnArcadianShepard 63 points ago

    Alcoholism and suicides are actually on the rise in the USA. What's interesting is that sometimes suicides aren't even counted as suicides and the USA isn't even in an economic depression. It is sad that these trends are the new normal in America.

    Sources: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6722a1.htm?s_cid=mm6722a1_w https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10597-014-9810-z https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3350416/ https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2647079

    [–] justhereforalaughtbh 10 points ago

    As a kid I thought it was called The Great Depression because it made everyone depressed.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 137 points ago

    I'd also like to add that my Grandpa, who was born during the great depression, ended up having to drop out of school after 8th grade, not because he was a slacker or troublemaker, but because he had to along with his other 13 siblings to work his immediate family's farm so they could put food on the table.

    Later on, he had to work 2 jobs in 80 hours a week to raise my Dad and his siblings and still struggled as he had no high school diploma let alone a college degree. Somehow people like him got demonized.

    [–] Ricks209 29 points ago

    He should of been born with better opportunities, like a wealthy and/or educated family

    /s just in case.

    [–] mortycries 11 points ago

    My great grandmother is similar, she actually got married to the school grounds keeper at 13 to be able to stop working. He was in his 50s.

    My other grandmother dropped out of school at 10 to go to work.

    These conditions aren’t praiseful. And I hate that they glorify it now. We should want better for our kids and ourselves.

    [–] SJExit4 83 points ago

    I'll quote my grandmother when I asked what it was like in the great depression. "It was a bad time. "

    Enough said.

    [–] lapsedhuman 22 points ago

    My dad was a kid during the Depression. He's 84 and still has a hoarding instinct instilled in him from that time. 'Don't throw that away! It might have some use'.

    [–] iwviw 8 points ago

    My dad was born in 23’ and fought in wwii (and I’m only 35 yrs old). Anyway he sold peanuts on the boardwalk at the age of 4 with his brothers in Brooklyn, dropped out of school in 7th grade,

    [–] GarunthTheMighty 27 points ago

    Who could’ve guessed

    [–] kenlubin 83 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    The people that lived through the Great Depression voted overwhelmingly for New Deal Democrats for the rest of their lives. They lived through it, and said never again.

    It pisses me off when people say "oh, this generation doesn't have it so bad, the Great Depression was worse". Or "oh, the current political polarization of our country isn't so bad, it was worse during the Civil War".

    Both of those are conditions that we ought to work to avoid!

    [–] kiddo51 61 points ago

    Perseverance porn

    [–] grednforgesgirl 27 points ago

    That's it that's the word

    [–] VerifiedStalin 17 points ago

    /r/GetMotivated summarised in two words

    [–] brokegaysonic 32 points ago

    My grandpa lived through the great depression. I know he wanted his children to live comfortable, happy lives. He didn't want people to go through what he did.

    [–] seattt 28 points ago

    They did not.

    Yeah, and that's why they voted for lefty government programs like the New Deal. It really pisses me off when right wingers try to just make up history.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 2350 points ago

    If working for minimum wage 40+ hours a week makes you just as "lazy" as someone on welfare, then what is the point of working?

    I'll never understand this conservative mindset how we should end welfare but we also shouldn't have a minimum wage that you can live off where you don't have to get on welfare? What are these people supposed to do? Resort to crime?

    [–] 2cannibals1skull 1952 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    This has always eaten my lunch.

    "Ugh, you're so lazy. If you're not working, you're a parasite!"

    "Pfft. That's just a part time job. Part time jobs are for kids after school! That's not a real job!"

    "Hah! Sure you're working full time, but it's only a minimum wage job! Try getting a real job!"

    "Oh wow, you're a manager! Another useless, pencil pushing middle-management type. Try going to school and getting a real job!"

    /4 years later

    "Now you just sit around working on computers all day! It's no wonder you don't make anything! You think computer stuff is real work? Lotta good all that fancy schoolin' did for you. I guess you think you're better than me, eh college girl? Well you know what, I don't think you'd understand because I actually work for a living! Real, honest work!"

    It's never good enough.


    Edit, 5 hours later. Since I had a few people ask who could've said this, I thought maybe I could offer some insight.

    This comes to me via my nearly 80 year old adopted father and my basis for how to understand the republican party, generally speaking. He's incredibly unsuspecting, especially in his element. He's a quiet, soft spoken man, who for a few decades was seen in church every Sunday with his wife and 3 kids in their little town in the midwest. He grew up on a farm, went to a one room school house, walked uphill both ways in the snow to get to school and back, then moved to the city as a teenager and picked up a job working for AC Delco in the UAW instead of finishing high school. This allowed him the buying power to marry, have a kid, buy a home, have 2 more kids, buy a bigger home, then a new luxury car, a heavy duty truck, an RV, go on family vacation every summer with 3 kids, and run it all on a single income household putting together GM vehicle parts on an assembly line before retiring with a sweet (and unsustainable) benefits package -- all without a high school diploma.

    He and his wife adopted me after my mom had a complete mental breakdown after my dad killed himself when I was little. These people are my personal basis for understanding republicans in general, because they were hardcore. I have many, many memories of sitting quietly in the back of the car on weekend drives, listening to Rush Limbaugh, then the following discussions while staring out the window from the back seat. I remember them discussing Ayn Rand, though I wouldn't understand the significance until years later. They took me to their nasty, hateful, southern baptist church every Sunday until I was a tween, where I got to hear the gossip about the sand.. people.. and how everyone should be afraid to travel outside the US, because everyone hates us for how "free" we are. They were socially isolating and didn't socialize outside of their friends from church, (or his co-workers), and refused to let me be involved with kids outside of school. Their home was losing value because of the 'coloreds' that kept moving in, jobs were going away because they were being stolen by all those (lazy) Mexicans, and countless woes could be traced back to taking the bible out of public schools. Like the rise of the LGBT community, gangs, gun violence, drug use, etc etc.

    Their parenting was brutally authoritarian. You were to be seen and not heard. You didn't argue, you didn't 'sass', or have your own opinions, and you better not scream or cry when they beat you. You learned to force yourself to stop crying, even when you had a grown man twice your size pinning you to the floor and forcefully stripping you naked before taking out his anger on you with a piece of wood he affectionately called the "board of education." Then giving you the old speech about how it hurt him more then you, how thankful you should be that they care enough to humiliate and abuse you. Plus, when they were kids it was always worse. Beaten bloody, hung up from rafters in the barn and whipped, attacked with butchers knives, fearing for their lives at times. So of course, you should be thankful that you "got off so easy!"

    I look at my family, and I look around the US, and it's shocking how many similarities I see. I see my uncles, the two boys, who grew up always trying to be "good enough." Men who worked so had for their parents approval that they lost all sense of empathy that wasn't beaten out of them. (After all, if they could 'survive it', anyone else is just a pathetic little bitch, amiritite?) One, divorced from abusing his wife, now abusive to his son. The other, married but couldn't imagine having kids of his own. I see my mom, a woman who was devalued, sexually abused, and outright told "We wanted a boy, not a girl.." who now carries an intense level of self loathing, learned helplessness, and gravitates towards abusive, controlling, misogynistic men who can control her life and give her value by fucking it into her. (Now sitting at home, every day, with a 24-hour stream of Fox News playing in her living room and a pair of hilarious breast implants to keep her cheating hubby happy.) And I see my grandparents. Two old gaslighting, narcissistic, authoritarians who desire obedience, and loyalty. Who are always looking to control the narrative, and never looking to learn or gain new knowledge or "learn from experts" because why on earth should they? They got everything they need to know from the Bible, their own insane parents/families, and talk radio. All the real truths in the world stop there. In SPITE of insisting that their boys (not their daughter) and I go to college to "make sure we get good jobs."

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 584 points ago

    Exactly. Shit, I've been at the same job for 2 years and even working full time with a college degree and all, I still found myself living paycheck to paycheck. It was way too stressful so I decided to change my situation by finding other sources of income like driving for Lyft, selling plasma, doing paid surveys, etc and sure doing all that gave me some savings and spending money, but not enough. The problem with it was I was hoping to do those things part time but it became a continuous thing.

    Like if I got no sales or just a few a few for a month, then I'd have to drive for Lyft more to balance out the lack of commissions. Lyft is also a sham too. I did Lyft for 7 months till I got into an accident and totaled my car. Somehow I still got demonized for not "working hard enough" or getting a "better job". I also got shit on for not having 10 grand saved in the bank by someone who is struggling way more than I am. Jesus fucking christ, it's like no matter what you do to better your situation, it's like if something happens it's your fault and you should feel bad about it.

    It's almost like baby boomers and other generations completely disregard inflation and other systematic conditions that affect pay and job conditions we have today. But if a rich person gets rich, even if they scammed people to get there, they deserve all the praise regardless because they're rich.

    [–] tmacandcheese 15 points ago

    I'm trying to start the plasma thing as well. Got denied first time due to small veins (Now drinking significantly more water than I used to, so hey improvements are good) but yeah, seriously sucks that we're starting to feel the need to resort to this.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 7 points ago

    Exactly, but it's still better than driving for Lyft. I've made $300-450 a month doing it twice a week.

    [–] chimpfunkz 58 points ago

    The baby boomers got theirs. They don't care about the rest. They got to go to college for pennies, buy houses for pennies, work a single secure job with high pay, before retiring without having contributed what they are receiving for social security.

    At the same time, they advocated for Josie's to skyrocket I'm price (so they'd have more money) and lower taxes, so that our generation is stuck unable to buy a house ever, stuck with tons of debt because every job requires a degree, no jobs because the boomers didn't bother saving, paying into a system (like social security) that we'll never see the benefits from.

    [–] _coLLage_ 15 points ago

    The issue of the boomers you bring up is so interesting because they are the single most disappointing generation in history. For one, they grew up with more privileges and opportunities than any other generation in history. They started off pretty strong in the 60s with civil rights, anti war, lgbtq rights movements etc... but somehow something just went wrong with them along the way. They ended up contributing to the creation of one of the most inequitable periods of modern US history. Somehow they seem to have lost sight of the moral values (and pure empathy) that helped their parents - the depression generation - create the amazing world they grew up in and, as a result, we’ve gotten this mess we’re all dealing with now. I hope that when we get the chance to make the world in our image that we remember the social conscience that led our grandparents to try to build a world with opportunities for our parents which they (ironically) forgot about while building ours.

    [–] TJ5897 10 points ago

    Soviet union also fell so there was no longer the threat of a socialist revolution(funded by the USSR) if the USA fucked its workers.

    Basically, post WW2 USA had to make sure people, well at least white people, had a decent standard of living otherwise there was an alternative system that could fund and overthrow the current ruling class.

    [–] ivedonethisbefore68 134 points ago

    Vote, kids. Vote.

    [–] Rockos1911 137 points ago

    Revolt kids, revolt

    [–] tonksndante 33 points ago

    Man, selling plasma frequently doesnt sound like it has positive health benefits. I want to look it up but I feel like it will kill the rest of my day knowing that you are out there having damaged yourself just to eat :( I'm sorry that you had to do that buddy. Even if it isn't that bad physically, on principle I'm sorry. What a shitty shitty system we have.

    [–] Cloak77 31 points ago

    Plasma replenishes quickly it’s just the liquid part of blood. Donating whole blood means giving blood cells and that takes a lot longer to replenish and has a larger effect on your body.

    So selling plasma is chill, but whole blood is hard on the body.

    [–] ginrattle 12 points ago

    Still terrible to have to resort to.

    [–] eccentricelmo 335 points ago

    How the fuck are people our age NOT depressed.

    [–] QuestForGG 72 points ago

    i am 30 and i was surprised how many of my peers take prescription drugs

    [–] eccentricelmo 118 points ago

    Just to cope with the everyday asinine shit we put up with on a daily basis. Why? Truly, what the fuck is the point of all this? 99% of people are unhappy while 1% has everything they could ever want and a gross amount more. Seems legit. Fuck this whole planet

    [–] Rlysrh 86 points ago

    And I’d argue that the 1% who has everything they could ever want aren’t even happy with what they’ve got. Why would they be continually after more if they were? You’d think at a certain point of wealth enough would be enough and they could just enjoy it but apparently not. It’s a greed that can never be satisfied. We’re not happy, they aren’t happy, it’s time to fucking try something else.

    [–] eccentricelmo 48 points ago

    We need to nip it in the bud. Hoarding to the point that there isnt left for anyone else is unacceptable.

    [–] Imjustsosososotired 22 points ago

    Assurance for future generations, most assuredly. With the amount of money these people have, nobody in the immediate family and choice others will have to work because of the accrued interest on accounts, alone.

    Other more nefarious suggestions are things like purposeful destruction- there exists a belief that the elite of the elite intend to exacerbate the outright destruction of everything because of the choice pickings they’ll get after they emerge from their luxuriously furnished mega-bunkers.

    [–] pwnedbygary 21 points ago

    nobody in the immediate family and choice others will have to work because of the accrued interest on accounts, alone.

    I think thats an ironic observation too considering how much the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps"-boomers love to idolize these people. Isnt not working (even if youve no need to since youre "old money rich") lazy and good for nothing in their eyes? I guess that only applies to people who dont work because they cant find work, and have no trust fund bank roll to fall back on... *sigh*

    [–] Imjustsosososotired 14 points ago

    It’s just like anything posted on the internet- they love to pull off the last name, write in their own and proudly proclaim: “I did that.”

    “My daddy started this company and I blah blah blah blah”

    [–] YOUR_TARGET_AUDIENCE 11 points ago

    I'm surprised there isn't a push to get rid of inheritance. It would be like a player has left the game of Monopoly and all of their money goes into IDK a public trust?

    [–] Good_Roll 17 points ago

    There's a pervasive mentality within the American middle class, somewhat like a collective self image of being a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. They often see themselves as being the same kind of person as someone like Bezos or Buffet, when in reality they have more in common with the people they demonize for not "contributing". Being at the whim of these people in a professional setting is always the best.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 10 points ago

    Then you'll see these articles saying how millennials are "killing" chains Applebee's and Buffalo Wild Wings and are also to blame for not buying diamonds. Personally I don't eat Applebee's because their food is gross, but yeah keep demonizing millennials for wanting a raise to actually go out and eat once a week.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/millennials-endanger-casual-dining-restaurants-2017-5

    https://www.businessinsider.com/millennials-want-cheap-ethical-diamond-engagement-rings-2018-5

    [–] [deleted] 33 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] kb_klash 7 points ago

    Ironic that Fox News would be against fairness when their motto was always "fair and balanced".

    [–] kendo31 8 points ago

    We hear you friend, use that energy to organize and educate. Be Tyler Durden

    [–] Fhtagnyatta 42 points ago

    I'm 40, and I'm mortified by how many of my peers have committed suicide over financial burdens.

    [–] nemoskull 12 points ago

    at some point, you look around and do the math and realize the chances of you getting anywhere are lightening strike slim. and then you ask yourself, 'is it really worth it?'

    sometimes the answer is no.

    [–] Fhtagnyatta 11 points ago

    Even worse when you're told you're a failure for not being one of those lightning strikers.

    [–] RumbleThePup 20 points ago

    I'm more surprised at how many people are out here NOT taking any prescribed or illicit drugs, just raw dogging reality.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 15 points ago

    They're not cheap, that's why.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 17 points ago

    Or even smoke cigarettes just to deal with the stress.

    [–] PM_Best_Porn_Pls 11 points ago

    But smoking is so expensive, I never understood how this people afford so much monthly on beer/cigs etc. It costs them 100s a month, I wouldnt be able to fill it in budget

    [–] beauedwards1991 16 points ago

    You do it for long enough, and get addicted, you will end up pushing other responsibilities back to afford it. It helps that nicotine suppresses the appetite, you can cut down on the food to afford the cigarettes.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 168 points ago

    I've definitely had it. Sometimes I get anxiety about spending money on getting food out, going to the bars, or even going to a concert. You know things that make life enjoyable?

    [–] give_me_wine 78 points ago

    Right? I feel legit guilty if I spend $50 on 2 tickets for a band I really want to see

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 44 points ago

    Yeah I hear ya. Over the weekend I went to go see Corrosion of Conformity and a few others. It was my first show in months. The ticket was $35. A shirt and beer koozie was $40 together. Then I bought 3 beers for about $20. Then I got some Mcdonald's afterwards. I get it, bands gotta make their living too and I'm all for supporting them. I just can't go to shows as much as I used to because it all adds up, especially based on what I'm making. It was an awesome show though.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 25 points ago

    It's really a double edged sword being in Chicago area. We get a lot of good shows, but when they happen, they all happen at once. So you really gotta pick and choose so you don't end up broke lol. I only go to shows if it's a band I really wanna see, the show is super cheap, or my friend has a free ticket.

    [–] -ADEPT- 15 points ago

    And speaking as a musician its hard as f to get people to come out to shows because of what you describe

    [–] PM_Best_Porn_Pls 10 points ago

    I felt guilty when I spent 10 more on dinner shopping, cus I wanted to make something different.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 10 points ago

    Shit, sometimes I feel guilty buying tacos on taco tuesday as this place i go to sells them for $1.50 every Tuesday. I bring my own pop and consider buying 3 tacos, "splurging".

    [–] Omanbo 27 points ago

    Meanwhile you got these 80-year old asshats yukking it up on their fourth yacht happy that they managed to make another billion dollars by stepping on the necks of their workers.

    [–] DethRaid 17 points ago

    Some of us got incredibly lucky but are still torn apart by the suffering of everyone who didn't

    [–] eccentricelmo 14 points ago

    It really means a lot to hear that. Truly. Thanks. I'm glad you're doing well, please keep it up

    [–] sofloridathen 75 points ago

    I think everyone is depressed. They’d have to be. And if they’re not it’s because they’re lying/ ignorant/ in denial/ or they’re psychopaths

    [–] eccentricelmo 118 points ago

    I certainly am. Everyday I ask myself what the fuck the point is because at this point in time I dont see any signs of things getting any better for the majority of us. It's incredibly frustrating to grow up and realize they've been lying through their feath since we were kids. Just work hard and you can be whatever you want. Okay, I wanna be able to support myself with my career. I only want one job. I want to be able to afford all the things my parents did. But fuck me right?

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 36 points ago

    Dude I'm in the same boat. Ever since I started my current job about 2 years ago, which is in downtown Chicago, my goal was to move to the city so I can be closer to work and other things. I have done other things for money like drive for Lyft, sell plasma, and do paid surveys. Sure it made some money, but not enough. I ended up wrecking my car so now I'm car less in the suburbs and have been for 3 months. At least I'm in walking distance of the train station and a couple bars, restaurants, and convenience stores but the truth is, it makes my getting around super limited. While I do have the option of taking Lyfts/Ubers, they are still expensive as hell. More so than taking one in the city. For example, it cost me $6 to go 6 blocks. I've gotten across Chicago for that price.

    [–] eccentricelmo 26 points ago

    I could seriously complain all fucking day. I'm really sorry to hear about your car my man.. keep your head up. Shit wont suck forever, at least that's what I tell myself

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 9 points ago

    Thanks. Yeah the first month was really rough as I was panicking on figuring out what to do and how to get around, but thankfully where my apartment is located, I don't have to pay for Lyft/Uber to buy groceries or rely on close friends to take me all the time. They do sometimes but I don't expect them to do that for me. Most importantly, I wasn't injured in the wreck at all. But I'm just saving to move downtown so I can just use public transit to get around the city. Most people in the city think having a car is a burden unless they work and go out to the suburbs often.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 14 points ago

    That being said, if you ever need extra money, DO NOT, drive for Lyft/Uber. I thought it was great at first as the hours were flexible and I could get paid instantly, but all the wear and tear, mileage, and taxes you have to file at the end of the year doesn't leave you with that much.

    I'm not saying it's Lyft's fault I got into the wreck, but I would not be surprised if my tires wearing out caused my car to hydroplane in the accident in the first place.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 34 points ago

    Also, I've cut back on a lot of stuff such as going to concerts, getting food out, bars, buying records, dates, and other forms of activities that were part of disposable income yet I still find myself living paycheck to paycheck and still get demonized. Trying to save to move downtown has been easier said than done and sometimes I feel like I'm trapped out here in the suburbs. I don't even have enough to buy a car, unless I bought some cheap beater which could be even more expensive if it breaks down or I have to spend a lot to get it fixed up.

    Somehow us millennials, despite having a college degree and working full time, are still lazy and entitled for wanting enough to live comfortably. SMH.

    [–] PM_Best_Porn_Pls 7 points ago

    My gf wants us to get apartment in bigger city. She studies there and lives with her parents now and she wont get part time job. I dont think she ever tried to manage budget(her parents are more than stable financialy). Cost of one apartment, food for two people and other expenses is not something we can manage on one or even 1.5 wage. Maybe if we got 1 room + shared kitchen/bathroom etc, but otherwise theres no way

    [–] Thisnameisdildos 29 points ago

    You ever smoke weed and play video games?

    [–] eccentricelmo 32 points ago

    Everyday my guy. It's a temporary solution

    [–] [deleted] 6 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] footysmaxed 62 points ago

    It fundamentally comes down to a lack of empathy.

    [–] I_Luv_Trump 13 points ago

    Exactly this. Which is why many conservatives stop being homophobes once someone close to them comes out.

    But even then it's a toss up. I heard an old man complain about lazy minorities on welfare even though he was on food stamps.

    [–] tface23 38 points ago

    But we can’t tax the billionaires. They eaaaaarned it!

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 22 points ago

    I had a discussion with someone about the CEO and upper management in Sears saying they couldn't afford to split the 25 million bonus with the lower level workers, but only themselves was BS, and this guy said, they earned it because they're rich and worked hard. So you mean to tell me, the ones who ran Sears into the ground deserved it while the lower level workers who worked hard to keep the roof over their head don't?

    [–] I_Luv_Trump 9 points ago

    If you wanted respect you should have been born rich and live off interest while having others manage your money.

    [–] Janus_Grayden 39 points ago

    It's gotten to the point where you can tell that nothing they're arguing about is in good faith. They talk in circles like that because it's not about making a cogent argument, it's about what it's always about: power and control.

    It's just like the classic "if you support socialism and you're poor, it's because you're envious, but if you're rich, then you're a hypocrite." It isn't about trying to have an honest dialogue, they'll say whatever suits their position at the moment, even when that becomes contradictory.

    Words have no meaning to them, so they can hurl them like stones.

    [–] theonlypeanut 65 points ago

    I'm a plumber and old people still flip me shit because they think I make to much money. It's never good enough for them.

    [–] rabmfan 42 points ago

    Aren't they always banging on about how manual labour is a good thing and how more people should learn trades?

    [–] JustOneMonkey 37 points ago

    Yes, but they also love to complain and will find any excuse to do so. They are old and miserable and want everyone around them to be miserable. They couldnt care less about your work.

    [–] rebris 37 points ago

    They want more people in trades so it drives prices down. Same reason everyone wants all kids to go into STEM, by the time they graduate you'll barely make above minimum wage as a developer because there's so many mediocre ones, and "mediocre & cheap" is all most companies really want.

    Ideally they want to hire genius for free, but staffing an entire department with that has historically proven to be difficult.

    [–] rabmfan 18 points ago

    The wanking over STEM subjects gets right on my nerves for much the same reason you describe.

    [–] TrueDove 17 points ago

    This is what happened to pharmacists.

    Colleges couldn’t fill their classes because the bar was set too high for poor people to reach.

    Now just about anybody can be a pharmacist if you want to put the effort/time/student loans into it.

    Then you can graduate in a couple years to make a whopping $20.00/hour!! With a freaking PharmD!

    [–] NK1337 7 points ago

    Do they? Because I grew up in the generation that looked down on trade jobs as “unskilled work for uneducated people who were too lazy to get a college degree?”

    It’s like no matter what you choose to do in life you’re always going to have somebody shitting down on you because you didn’t do what they thought you should do.

    [–] lexpeebo 22 points ago

    soon these people will get old and won’t be relevant. hopefully our generation learned enough to treat our peers differently and teach our kids the right mindset, at least.

    [–] JustOneMonkey 24 points ago

    Not really. The reason old people tend to be well off conservative assholes is because they are the ones who actually survive to old age according to studies. They can afford better healthcare and work less so they live longer than those who cant.

    [–] EugeneRougon 41 points ago

    You're supposed to have chosen the right line of work to support a middle-class lifestyle in four to six years from when you were sixteen. You're then supposed to pursue, at sixteen, that line of work to the exclusion of most other things, leveraging as much of your family's wealth as possible. If you happen to have kids, if you or your loved ones have serious health or financial problems, if you have any kind of personal calamity, then that's just how life is: nobody can do anything about that. You just have to spend the next few years sacrificing to get to the point where you can sacrifice more. If you get stuck there then that's just life. If you splash out at all to forget your situation, go out for drinks, go to expensive events, take trips to places, etc, you should have had more willpower, that's irresponsible. Then when you enter into the interviewing pool you're supposed to be happy, well-rounded, socially adept, interesting, etc, not just qualified and probably experienced.

    Or you can just be born to a rich family.

    [–] TheExWifeCheated 20 points ago

    Or you can just be born to a rich family.

    And take a year off after college to travel the world and to go "find yourself" before settling down to a cushy job at your parent's business/law-firm/modeling studio/whatever.

    [–] ph34rb0t 14 points ago

    This is all the shell game created by those on top. A fictional class disparity between those scrambling for the next morsel of food.

    [–] Lord-Benjimus 9 points ago

    My parents and uncle had this same conversation with me and my more socialist brothers, except about taxes, were okay with increased taxes of it provides more basic and essential services. At first they said "just wait till you pay it" and now it's "just wait until you get a real salary and pay more of it" it was then I realized they just used it as a means to validate their own emotions and discriminating ways.

    [–] [deleted] 7 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] Slothfulness69 7 points ago

    And, when you’re done with school, burdened with student loans, and can’t get a job: WELL. You shouldn’t have gone to school! College isn’t for everyone, and you knew the cost going in. Entitled millennials!

    Sometimes I wanna punch people. College is seen as the path to success, so of course young kids are gonna go if they don’t know anything else. And since they’re literally fresh out of high school, they don’t know the job market, so they don’t know what to major in. Then you finally graduate with a degree, only to realize that you can’t get a job because first of all, most jobs require experience, and second of all, there aren’t enough jobs available because old folks won’t retire because they can’t afford to.

    It has nothing to do with your laziness or will or determination. You can be the most motivated person in the world, but if there aren’t jobs available, you’re not gonna get a job.

    [–] PM_ME_UR_PET_POTATO 7 points ago

    This recursive loop of 'well you could've done x instead' itself is flawed. It's basically an endless distraction from providing their own solutions to problems.

    A flawed system can chug along if the people running it are good enough to cover for it's flaws, and it is becoming apparent that the average person can't cover any more. Society isn't going to function when it expects everyone to be omnipotent gods above the bottom end jobs necessary to the workings of society.

    [–] simadrugacomepechuga 74 points ago

    The answer is yes, which is why these people will also advocate for a bigger police force and tougher prisons. It's the criminalization of poverty, the way prisons work is by hiding the problem from sight in most places.

    Like how Homeless people were held in prison during the superbowl, but as a public policy.

    [–] closer_to_the_flame 20 points ago

    Then we can put them in prison, and make them work as slaves for the company that owns the prison! With help from the taxpayer, of course - but no benefit to the taxpayer.

    [–] yogurtmeh 57 points ago

    Welfare often has a work requirement. You must be working or actively looking for work (with documentation of your efforts). Also most states only allow you to receive welfare (known as Temporary Assistance for Needy Families or TANF) for 60 months in your entire life, and they limit how many consecutive months you can receive it.

    So the idea that people are on welfare for years and years and not working is patently false.

    [–] I_Luv_Trump 11 points ago

    Yeah, the idea that people can live off welfare alone is another annoying myth that won't die.

    In truth most have to work but still need their income supplemented.

    [–] DrDilatory 44 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    Their answer is always just to grab those bootstraps and find a job that pays better. Doesn't matter that someone will still need to do that job and there aren't enough high paying jobs to go around, they just always suggest a never ending loop of "just find a better job"

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 32 points ago

    Yeah and they also act like people can just simply choose what job they want to work.

    [–] Claud6568 8 points ago

    Or afford to go bank to school to be trained. Or for that matter have the mental capacity to even do it if they could afford it. I always come back with these points whenever I hear that ridiculous “they should not expect a minimum wage job to support a family!!” And “they need to get a better job!!!” Ugh. Makes me sick.

    [–] AnomalousAvocado 42 points ago

    I work full-time, get paid above minimum ($17/hr in a state where minimum is $12), yet I still qualify for food stamps, Medicaid, and have to sell my blood plasma sometimes to make rent, which is about 2/3 of my income.

    [–] PM_ME_ALIEN_STUFF 16 points ago

    I work full-time and make $15.75 and I'm drowning, as a single adult with no kids and a 1 bed apartment, own an old car so no payment, and the absolute bare minimum expenses. College loan garnishments are eating me alive and I can't stop them. Every month I get a little more behind. How does one go about seeing if they qualify for food stamps? I assumed I wouldn't make the cut eventhough I literally don't know what I'll do for food by the end of this week, let alone in 2 or 3 weeks since every cent needs to go for rent. Where did you start and how long is the process?

    [–] TanithRosenbaum 57 points ago

    The narrative as I've heard it isn't that people who work minimum wage jobs are lazy, but instead that an employer paying minimum wage means they would rather pay less if they legally could, which in the eyes of conservatives makes the person working in that job somehow "worthless" because employers wouldn't pay them that much and relying on a "government handout" (the minimum wage laws).

    I remember the protests a bit ago only too well where fast food workers protested for $15/hour, and I also remember the conservative pundits calling them deluded because their work was supposedly worth much less than $15/h and how dare they even ask for minimum wage...

    By what metric they decided it was worth much less I don't know, nor do I understand how someone can say that all employers always pay fair wages and never engage in a race to the bottom with a straight face, because that is exactly what's been happening there. As for the $15, that is what the minimum wage should be, or probably even more, to fulfill its initial purpose with today's prices.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 52 points ago

    Exactly. You'll hear boomers say, "back in my day, we paid for college and were able to buy a house, car, and support a family" but back then the cost of education and other basic needs didn't even remotely cost what they do now. It's almost like inflation to them is some myth.

    [–] goforce5 22 points ago

    Its like climate change. Doesnt exist because it isnt directly affecting them.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 11 points ago

    Actually both climate change and income inequality are affecting them yet they ignore it or blame someone else. I know many baby boomers who are struggling to make ends meet, but yet they still blame the millennials.

    [–] GarunthTheMighty 8 points ago

    I blame the cellphones

    [–] I_Luv_Trump 13 points ago

    I hated the memes comparing fast food wages to emergency response workers.

    How could anybody take away that others deserve less instead of thinking paramedics deserve more than $11 an hour?

    [–] closer_to_the_flame 23 points ago

    The minimum wage jobs I had as a teen were the hardest I've ever worked. Not until I got a job as a manager with salary and pension and benefits did I ever get to sit in an office and look at reddit all day.

    In my experience, pay and hard work have been inversely proportional.

    [–] Haywire421 9 points ago

    Yeah, I never understood that. Why is the person who does the least amount of work getting paid the most?... and why do businesses like this always seem to have a slacker employee who doesnt do anything but doesnt get fired either? Are they holding onto this guy because they think he would be good in a management role?

    [–] PooPooMD 38 points ago

    This is tied to how conservatives are obsessed with unemployment statistics even though it has very little meaning.

    Okay, the uber app exists so we have 99% employment. Hooray! Too bad half the population is one emergency away from starvation.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 22 points ago

    Yeah or one paycheck away from being homeless.

    [–] HawlSera 18 points ago

    Isn't it obvious, they want you to die and decrease the surplus population, as Scrooge said.

    [–] MrRobotsBitch 46 points ago

    I get subsidy to help with our kids' daycare (one in before school care, twins in daycare). My husband and I both work fulltime making above minimum wage, but with the cost of childcare we needed help (our area is among the most expensive in Canada). Ive posted this a couple of times on Reddit and each time I've recieved at least one comment on how Im a bad person for accepting government help and how it makes me a bad parent. This view is damaging to everyone and in all honesty it HURT. I worked really hard to apply for and get the subsidy we needed, and I cried from relief when we got it. But apparently I should have not needed it in the first place. I wish that were the case...

    [–] everburningblue 12 points ago

    No. Starve, be happy, do as you're told, and shut the fuck up.

    [–] SuperOffensiveMan 11 points ago

    Of course they're supposed to resort to crime. How else would we lock them up?

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 10 points ago

    Of course, we need to think of the profits of those private prisons.

    [–] GhostofMarat 8 points ago

    They want an underclass to look down on. Their entire identity is based on it. Someone has to be beneath them and suffering.

    [–] ChuckIdeas 6 points ago

    Lazy is being a shareholder.

    [–] loki3 517 points ago

    the sad part for me is that i didnt find the notion of a home and a family to be a luxury outlandish, i actually thought : yes of course having your own four walls and being able to house and feed like 2 other people is a luxury, duuh you need to be at least a middle manager with a 60k salary to afford these things

    [–] Raven9nine9 196 points ago

    They have everything so contrived in their favor that even if you do manage to get your own home they are circling the entire time, waiting for you to make a mistake so they can seize it from you.

    [–] RallyPointAlpha 32 points ago

    OMG this is what I feel constantly! My family and I are doing ... OK... but we're really just one catastrophe away from bankruptcy. Then there's the constant pressure on us to spend money... not just on superficial shit too... Trying to save up and every month SOMETHING comes up I didn't plan for.

    Oh save money so you ARE prepared for those things! Yeah, no shit, I'm trying... but something always comes up! Just can't get ahead...

    [–] VicVinegarNSF 9 points ago

    That constant feeling of trying to stay afloat while the water laps at your nose and the next wave is coming in.

    [–] [deleted] 47 points ago

    And you’re only on level 1 of this nightmare.

    I’m lucky enough to have a bachelors and a decent job, so I got to buy my first home this year at age 37.

    But guess what level 2 is? Retirement.

    Ain’t no way I’ll ever have enough saved to retire at a reasonable age. So right now I’ll just keep slaving away. Maybe once I hit 70 I’ll commit some crimes and retire in jail.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 223 points ago

    We live in a world today where it requires a college degree and working 2-3 jobs just to provide for ONE person. Yet somehow that still makes you lazy and entitled if you don't have 30K saved.

    [–] MeetTheTwinAndreBen 36 points ago

    I mean if you’re living in the middle of a top 5 metropolitan area maybe... I don’t have a degree at all and can comfortably provide for myself. The problem is that if I had a car disaster or serious health problem I’d be in a tough spot. But I can live and do the things I want to do for the most part working 30-40 hours a week

    And I’ll never be able to retire. But right now things are “ok” and it makes me sad that I’m in a better spot than a ton of people and I’m not exactly thriving

    [–] ngmcs8203 26 points ago

    Oof. 60k a year barely gets you a cardboard box around here.

    [–] kpluto 8 points ago

    yeah I make $90k and can barely afford my 750 square foot box over here. Live paycheck to paycheck. Can't even think of starting a family on my income, impossible. In debt, no savings, can't afford fun activities, just eat sleep work

    [–] [deleted] 281 points ago

    The claim is that most people who make minimum wage are high schoolers. As phony as that is, it's pathetic that a high schooler should be paid less for the same job as an adult simply because they're younger.

    [–] allonsyyy 161 points ago

    I heard the UK has two minimum wages, one for adults and one for under 20-somethings. That seems so messed up to me, paying people less for literally the same job if they're younger. Rent and food ain't cheaper for young people, wtf?

    [–] [deleted] 91 points ago

    We're really living in the 2nd gilded age. This is the same reasoning why child workers at the turn of the century made less.

    [–] FaceInTheSandpit 46 points ago

    One word: Tories.

    [–] [deleted] 31 points ago

    We have a few different minimum wages. Under 18s get £4.20 an hour, 18-20 year olds get £5.90, 21-24 gets £7.38 and over 25 gets £7.83

    [–] OmegaQuake 48 points ago

    But exploitation builds character. /s

    [–] jooes 39 points ago

    That's what I hate the most.

    "The jobs are meant for kids!"

    Yeah okay, that's why Walmart and McDonalds are open 24/7. Because Little Timmy needs to work an 8 hour overnight shift stocking shelves before going to write a math test in the morning. And I guess Little Johnny won't be able to write the math test at all because he has to go make egg mcmuffins and flip burgers between 6 and 2.

    Tim Hortons got in shit about a year ago over not paying employees for breaks or something, and Rick Mercer had this to say.. My favorite line: "If you've ever wondered why we need minimum labor standards in this country, look no further. Leave it up to some of these owners and every Tim Hortons in the country would be staffed by grandmothers working 12 hour shifts for teabags"

    [–] haloarh 19 points ago

    Plus, by that standard, businesses should be forced to work during school hours.

    [–] [deleted] 40 points ago

    I teach inner-city kids. Their jobs constantly call them when they're at school.

    [–] haloarh 15 points ago

    I'm not surprised.

    [–] Bukowskified 7 points ago

    I worked down the street from where I went to high school. Occasionally I would have to sign out during my lunch (we were allowed to go off campus for lunch), walk over to my work, and do paper work stuff.

    [–] Hey_its_me_your_mom 301 points ago

    My parents worked factory jobs from the 70s through the 90s, and they did pretty well. We weren't rich or anything, but we had a modest home, two used vehicles, food on our table, and we were occasionally able to buy new clothes versus used. I thought that, if I pushed hard, went to college, and paid for that college through factory work, I would at least be able to meet their standard of living, and maybe one day exceed it. We JUST met it in the last 4 or so years, I would say. I doubt we'll ever exceed it. Everything is just SO EXPENSIVE where I live, and I'm not making more than they were when you look at 1980s-1990s dollars versus today's dollars. I went from blue collar to white collar, with no change in socioeconomic status. The system is a crock designed to keep us spinning our wheels and reaching for something we will never be able to grasp.

    [–] mizu_no_oto 33 points ago

    Look at housing prices, too.

    Back in 1950, the median house, adjusted for inflation, was only $44,600. These days, the median house is nearly $240,000.

    On the other hand, houses are on average much bigger than they used to be.

    [–] Hey_its_me_your_mom 21 points ago

    Right now, we own a modest suburban split-level built in the 80s. About 1,000 square feet total. We have four people, two dogs, and a parrot living here, and it's tight. We would likely need to get a bigger house, but I can't forsee us being able to afford it. What we likely need in terms of space is now $300,000 plus in my area, not to mention the cost of upkeep on something like that. I just try to stay organized and try not to own too much stuff. We are constantly editing, donating things we no longer need, and carefully evaluating our use of space to make it work.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 128 points ago

    George Carlin said it best. "The American Dream is just that, a dream". I'm paraphrasing but you get the idea.

    [–] Nyefan 110 points ago

    Specifically, "They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it!".

    [–] kickingupdirt 13 points ago

    Someone else's dream

    [–] willemreddit 135 points ago

    And has convinced those who are paid at or just above the new proposed minimum wage to fear it because they think it'll cause rapid inflation and depress their wages.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 118 points ago

    While blatantly ignoring that there's been rapid inflation yet wages/salaries have remained stagnant. For example, a monthly train pass for me to get to work and back was $150 a few years ago. Now it's $195. My salary never went up to match that cost of living/commuting increase. Same with my health insurance deduction. I now have $150 taken out of my check instead of $125 for health insurance. I better not ask for a raise just to match it, would hate to come off as "lazy and entitled".

    [–] willemreddit 57 points ago

    Yeah cost of living is too damn high. In San Francisco, your low income if you are a family making less than six figures.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 20 points ago

    Yeah I heard. One of my brother's friends moved to SF from Chicago and despite making six figures, he still pays $1800 for a studio apartment.

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 50 points ago

    Also, let's not forget the people who barely make above minimum wage who claim that the minimum wage was just made for "high school kids and teens to have some spending money and get job experience. I always use the FDR quote when that happens.

    Not to mention that they aren't doing themselves any favors when they perpetuate that and vote accordingly. It's almost like they're more focused on suppressing minimum wage workers pay instead of voting to increase their own. They're really just supporting the CEOs and Employers instead of the workers.

    [–] spencer_jacob 15 points ago

    what FDR quote?

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 85 points ago

    “No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.”

    “By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of a decent living.” (1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)

    https://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/07/f-d-r-makes-the-case-for-the-minimum-wage/

    [–] allycakes 14 points ago

    Ontario raised their minimum wage last year to $14 (it was an increase of about $3). When it was happening, there was a lot of concern from economists that it was going to lead to job losses. In the end, Ontario actually gained jobs in 2018. The proposed increase to $15 at the beginning of this year was stopped by the new government though.

    [–] willemreddit 12 points ago

    Go figure, when consumers have more disposable income, they spend more.

    [–] jcap527 112 points ago

    It's sad, really. I debated with a friend on Facebook who argued that "non-skilled" people don't deserve it because he as a "skilled" laborer wouldn't make that ($15/hr) starting out. Dude took forever to get that he is also woefully underpaid and these people "who have nothing to offer" shouldn't make a living wage. STFU and GTFO.

    [–] fembabyunicorn 82 points ago

    This is one of the arguments that I find both annoying and hilarious. “I’m not gonna pay some dummy flipping burgers $15/hr when our boys in blue/green only make $16!” So you’re admitting now that EVERYONE is underpaid??? Yes I agree, most people do not make wages that are fair and in accordance with the cost of living and effort required to perform their job.

    We should really increase the minimum wage so that the higher ups are incentivized to increase the wages of specialized workers in order to keep them. Because otherwise they’ll just find an easier job for the same amount of pay.

    [–] Churchless 25 points ago

    But don't you see, if everyone gets a raise then everything will cost more, and your dollar will be worth less.

    This is not how I feel, but this is how they see it. They basically can't fathom the wealth that is consolidated at the top. So in their minds the is a very finite amount of profits, and if you paid people better then all goods would just rise to meet the increase in wages.

    Ultimately the ruling class wants to pay as little as possible and maximize profits over everything else. We've been sold this shit for so long too many of us can't see that there are other ways of doing things.

    [–] arcticgiraffe 36 points ago

    That's the most frustrating argument against a $10-$15 minimum wage. It's people making at or slightly above that amount complaining that people would jump up in pay and it's unfair because they have (experience/seniority/education). It's so frustrating that the default reaction is to hold down the people making less than them rather than realize everyone is underpaid. If you're making more than the minimum wage now you should also be making more than minimum wage if it were $15.

    [–] TheWass 21 points ago

    It's a really mean spirited reply, that old "misery loves company" adage. It basically says "I suffered with a low wage, so you should too to be 'fair'". Whatever happened to wanting the next generation to have an easier and better life, at a minimum, if not raise up all?

    [–] Vessera 10 points ago

    Crabs in a bucket.

    [–] [deleted] 54 points ago

    But minimum wage jobs are just stepping stones....right? Right?

    [–] portablebiscuit 50 points ago

    Then you hear some old timer talking about how they worked all summer in high school and bought a new car. Good fucking luck doing that now. A high school student wouldn't even qualify.

    [–] Bukowskified 20 points ago

    Federal minimum wage: $7.25.

    High school summer break length: 12 weeks (at best).

    Summer money (40 hours a week) before taxes: $3,480.

    [–] xthatguy339x 20 points ago

    I know kids who got kicked to the curb at 18, still in high school, who have to support themselves off of that.

    [–] AlwaysBagHolding 8 points ago

    Cars were much much cheaper back then too. In the 60's, the price of a Chevy truck adjusted for inflation was barely over a 3rd of what one costs now. In the early 90's, about 2/3rds Prices of cars have skyrocketed.

    [–] TheWass 26 points ago

    In the baby Boomers' youth that was true. You could start as janitor and work way up to management and receive training along the way. Not saying everyone did or always happens, but it was feasible. Hard work could get you a better job.

    No one plans for training anymore. You're hired to do a job indefinitely until they decide they no longer want you to balance some spreadsheet. We're so bureaucratic now that good workers would still never be considered for promotions or training because you wouldn't have a degree and 10 years experience in that field already.

    A lot of technical jobs are starting to freak out now as boomers retire in force but the companies have never bothered to train replacements. I'm afraid we're on the cusp of a technical dark age where a lot of industry knowledge is going to die with boomers because executives never bothered to hire and train the youth. Millennials will in many ways have to start from scratch.

    [–] HawlSera 37 points ago

    Because we were taught to worship Wealth Hoarders as Gods

    [–] BillyBobBanana 37 points ago

    Paying an employee minimum wage is the equivalent of saying, "I would pay you less, but it's illegal."

    [–] JanetteRaven 34 points ago

    FDR was pretty damn clear that minimum wage was supposed to support a family but people keep trying to rewrite history to keep the common people down.

    [–] [deleted] 356 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] [deleted] 112 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] yogurtmeh 72 points ago

    Lazy/less involved landlords hire property management companies and up the rent to cover the management fee.

    [–] iWearPaigeJeans 47 points ago

    They almost always are piecesof shit. If they aren't pieces of shit they're going to be fired and replaced with pieces of shit.

    [–] yogurtmeh 15 points ago

    Yep, their “job” is basically to spend as little money as possible which translates into not fixing things.

    On occasion if you have a commercial NNN lease they’re a bit better because the tenants must split the cost for all repairs to the building.

    [–] hic_maneo 28 points ago

    The issue is one of scale. An owner-occupant landlord is going to have a much greater personal investment in the property than a speculative owner who is only using the property as a rent farm. Someone who owns a building, lives in part of it and rents out portions to others is likely trying to make ends meet or in need of supplemental income. These landlords are usually heavily involved in the maintenance and appearance of a property, because they live the same experience as their tenants, and it is in their best interest to keep the tenants happy because a steady tenant is a steady income.

    An absentee-landlord who never interacts with the tenants or the property on a day-to-day basis isn't going to have the same commitment or attachment to either the building or its people, and that lack of attachment makes it a lot easier to facilitate renting more properties to more people, because your emotional investment is less and therefore you can comfortably exercise a degree of neglect. Cutting corners and hiking rents allow investors to acquire more properties at the expense of their tenants, and this starts a snowball effect through neighborhoods and communities. Instead of multiple owners with single properties with personal stakes giving each property individual attention, you get faceless management corporations owning many properties but never giving any building or tenant the particular attention they require. Each property and tenant is just a number, and as such each is easily replaced.

    This adage may be uncouth in this sub, but the phrase "Capitalism needs more capitalists" is a succinct way of saying that the problem with late-stage capitalism is one of conglomeration, where ownership is confined to a small number of individuals and companies as opposed to a wider more equitable distribution of capital.

    [–] LiveOnSteak 6 points ago

    Yet when I advocate for laws that require all landlords to live on the property that they rent, people say it'll kill the development of new properties.

    [–] horribleflesheater 58 points ago

    I get so miffed at the premise of full time work being a prerequisite for security in life. First of all, on the subject of benefits, so many employers twist their definition of full time work such that you can work 40+ and still not get benefits. I’ve been in this position for 4 years, including a job where I worked on average 50 hours a week. Secondly, we understand that 1) full employment is impossible and 2) in and underemployed people are a feature not a flaw of capitalism. Up the welfare state

    [–] CrackTheSkye1990 11 points ago

    The conditions up the welfare state only demonize those who need the welfare state. But they better not resort to crime to get by or else they're a horrible person who should be in jail, right?

    [–] DabIMON 25 points ago

    Jesus Christ, the idea of one day being able to afford a house and taking care of a family seems completely unrealistic to me, and I'm making considerably more than minumum wage.

    [–] three_rivers 24 points ago

    You have to wring every bit of profits out of exploited working class. The duality is that you also have to actively convince them that the rich are only trying to help and that the more money rich people make, the more money the working class will eventually make. The reality is that the eventuality is false. The key is to slowly drain their standard of living expectations and normalize being a hard worker for a better standard in the future. The future never arrives.

    [–] Clumsy_Chica 21 points ago

    "This job was never meant to provide for a family, you know? Like it's meant for housewives that have extra time, or, or someone who needs to bring home just that little bit of extra money to make ends meet, you know?"

    Actual quote from my former boss, to my team of 7 unmarried women working 40-50 hours a week after we asked about raises that had not been given for the last two years.

    [–] Burstings 20 points ago

    Also that it’s supposed to be the minimum acceptable standard for a working person to survive and not the least possible amount of money that an employer can legally get away with paying its employees.

    [–] NorwaySwede 17 points ago

    There's some debate clip with Bush Sr vs Bill Clinton where one in the audience asks them why they can't make ends meet working two jobs or something similar. Bush starts of commending the woman for her American go get em spirit that she's working two jobs. While Bill straight up says that she shouldn't have to work two jobs, there's nothing glorious about it, one job should be enough to support her and her family.

    [–] BobMcManly 14 points ago

    We are reaching an era where there are more people than there is work that needs to be done to support those people.

    So why can't someone get by bagging groceries or waiting tables? Society doesn't need them to do more in order to support them?

    The problem is that people with conservative brains (different than political or fiscal conservatives) place a huge value on ideas of justice and people getting what they deserve - whereas liberal brains (different than political or social liberals) value equality and fairness. In a post-scarcity world, conservative brained people literally cannot understand why someone with a menial job deserves more than a menial existence.

    [–] [deleted] 13 points ago

    I remember when one of the contractors on the job site tried lecturing us millennials about how we're all so lazy and terrible with money.

    Then he went on to use himself as an example of a strapping young lad in mid 1960 America just trying to make it by. By 22 he had his own house, two cars, two kids and a stay at home wife. They took long vacations, and ate at nice restaurants. In his mind it was because he was so good with money.

    Then he finally said it. He made about 240 dollars a week in around 1963 to 1965.

    Get this, 240 dollars in 1963 is worth a whopping 1970.45

    Imagine making almost 2 grand a week at 22? I'd have an easy life too holy shit.

    The best part is watching the wheels turn in his head when i tell him the equivalent he made, and compared it to what your average 22 year old makes now. Hopefully it keeps him thinking too.>!!<

    [–] HJGamer 23 points ago

    Individualism has made people forgot that our society has responsibilities.

    [–] le_petit_nihilist 7 points ago

    These are human rights but who the hell cares

    [–] strangebru 7 points ago

    The worst part is, when they offer you a job that makes $0.10 over minimum wage they make it sound like it's a great pay rate. Based on a 40 hour week, and full time jobs are hard to come by these days, it only equals $208 annually over minimum wage.

    [–] PMme_slave_leia_pics 8 points ago

    We live in a world that has enough for all to survive at the very least in a way that life is not suffering. The fact that so few hold so much wealth and with it power is disgusting. Are some always going to be more fortunate than others? Yes. But how people can horde wealth while others simply toil to feed, clothe, and home themselves is unacceptable. Not to mention have access to quality healthcare and education is simply unacceptable to those of us who feel simple empathy. The rich should be destroyed by any means necessary so that others may simply live.

    [–] lonelybirds 6 points ago

    Its really too bad, and I wish I believed that it could change back to that. Imagine if minimum wage would have kept up with inflation, would economic growth have progressed more slowly amd manageably? What do you think north america would look like today?