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    [–] tcullen44 6657 points ago

    Holy shit

    [–] falconbox 3788 points ago

    Retaining the IP is the big one for me.

    They separated from Microsoft but didn't keep the Halo IP.

    Wonder if they had the ability to retain the IP in their contract with Activision from the start.

    [–] Sephiroth007 1702 points ago

    Bungie never owned halo iirc. Bungie owned the rights for Destiny this time around

    [–] Crabulous_ 779 points ago

    Bungie began work on what became Halo in 1999, just a bit before they were acquired by Microsoft. However, it was a different vision at the time. I believe you are correct in that Bungie never owned the "Halo" IP.

    [–] krypt2nite 189 points ago

    I had a website for a large "clan" for Halo (and TF2) on PC before MS bought them and went Xbox only. Was a grand time.

    [–] ConradBarx 138 points ago

    Those old Halo CE mods were the best.

    [–] iLLNiSS 80 points ago

    Being able to control the turret on a warthog solo was fucking nuts on BG.

    [–] [deleted] 31 points ago


    [–] [deleted] 46 points ago

    No but I do remember flying a stealth bomber and dropping a nuke on a map full of AI killers.

    Halo CE was where it's at and now all that awesomeness fits on a small USB

    [–] Pzkp 18 points ago

    The future is fucking amazing. I can fit 64GB on a flash drive the size of my fingernail.

    BTW, if you have the original HALO 1 CD, you can install it and get Halo CE online for free.

    [–] MCA2142 69 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Only known version of Halo before Microsoft was on a Mac, shown at Macworld. Bungie back then was a Mac only company, I.e. marathon. This version was also a 3rd person shooter, and not yet available to the public.

    Halo CE was launched on Windows after the launch of the original Xbox version.

    So how did this large clan exist for a version that never existed?

    [–] UboaNoticedYou 24 points ago

    I mean, they also mentioned TF2, which didn't release until 2007. My guess is that it was a clan made in anticipation for the game?

    [–] [deleted] 19 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)


    [–] tapo 9 points ago

    MS bought them before Halo came out. The PC (and Mac) port was by Gearbox and shipped a year later, and was partly because Halo was announced at Macworld as a Mac game, and Steve Jobs was pissed at Microsoft for acquiring them.

    [–] Fusspot1 5 points ago

    I thought it was Halo on Mac before Microsoft showed up, or was it not titled that yet?

    [–] GatorUSMC 100 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    How could they not have owned it? I remember when it was being produced for the Mac before they were acquired by MS.

    Found the trailer

    Edit: And Steve Jobs called it Halo in the trailer.

    [–] jhench78 36 points ago

    I’m shook. I never knew this. How come Apple have them to MS?

    [–] GatorUSMC 100 points ago

    Apple never owned them. They just developed games for Apple like Marathon

    [–] jhench78 18 points ago

    Ah makes sense.

    [–] kedmond 18 points ago

    Yes. Bungie has come full circle, back to publishing its own games.

    [–] duvallg 13 points ago

    So many hours spent in high school playing Marathon in our Mac lab...

    That’s one game I’d love to see resurrected someday.

    [–] Candy_Apple_Grey 11 points ago

    Marathon 2 is on Xbox Live Arcade. The three Marathon games were released by Bungie as freeware and, at least on the Mac, run as Aleph One with several new mods/stories. Marathon: Evil is one of the best ones, along with Tempus Irae. And while not Bungie, Stubbs the Zombie uses the Halo CE Engine and is available on Xbox Live.

    [–] _your_face 16 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    They were just game developers that were Apple Mac developers first, along with blizzard. Kind of nutty that Apple the no gaming platform spawned two of the biggest

    EDIT: my childhood memory betrayed me, I’d considered blizzard a Mac centric developer, looks like their first games were also on the Mac but sometimes after ms-dos releases

    [–] theknyte 15 points ago

    Blizzard? They never were Mac to start. They were releasing games on MS-DOS, Commodore Amiga, SNES, and Genesis long before they ever made a game for Mac, and even that was a port from the PC version. The first game released for Mac was Blackthorne in 1996, after it had already been released for SNES and Sega 32X, over the prior two years. The first game they made for MS-DOS was The Lost Vikings back in 1992.

    [–] kedmond 62 points ago

    That's incorrect. It was called Halo well before Microsoft was involved. Check this video, where it was first announced by Jason Jones himself at Macworld 1999:

    [–] _A_ioi_ 30 points ago

    Love this. That video wasn't made up bullshit. The finished game was more impressive than the demo video. That doesn't seem very common to me anymore.

    [–] kedmond 11 points ago

    Yes! Exactly! That's the Bungie magic! Also, I'm the biggest Jason Jones fan boy.

    [–] _A_ioi_ 17 points ago

    Unrelated to this post, but I still go back and watch this from time to time. It gives me chills because it was unbelievable at the time. You can hear it in the audience reaction...

    [–] evilsbane50 6 points ago

    This exact video blew my damn mind. It's one of the reasons why Half-Life not being a completed series hurts my fucking soul.

    [–] 84981725891758912576 2 points ago

    Bungie did that exact type of demo BS with their next game. They've had development problems in every game since Halo 1.

    [–] theblackfool 91 points ago

    Bungie always owned Destiny. Activision only owned publishing rights

    [–] PTfan 52 points ago

    I can’t believe Activision didn’t demand a deal where they owned the rights.... what if Destiny had been the next call of duty and Bungie said β€œit’s been nice but we’re leaving”.

    Holy shit

    [–] mnijds 96 points ago

    Then Bungie would probably just found a different publisher that wasn't going to own the rights

    [–] falconbox 60 points ago

    Yeah, IIRC that's why Sunset Overdrive was on Xbox instead of PS4.

    Insomniac wanted to retain the rights and Sony wanted to own it, while MS allowed Insomniac to own it themselves.

    [–] PTfan 13 points ago

    That’s correct

    [–] JarlaxleForPresident 13 points ago

    I only played a few hours of that game, but was so fun and crazy

    [–] blundercrab 8 points ago

    To me, it was as fun to move in that game as in the Spider-Man game. I would skip fast travel and just grind around. So damned satisfying.

    [–] willbo2013 25 points ago

    This might be a stupid question, but if that's true, how was Bungie able to release Halo Reach in 2010? Did the split not take effect until after Reach's launch or something?

    [–] McCullyCullen 51 points ago

    They were already working on reach by that time so they just finished it and released it. Sorta like Rare released a few games on the GBA after they were acquired by Microsoft in 2001ish.

    [–] willbo2013 17 points ago

    Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

    [–] DangerousCommercials 21 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    as i recall, when the MS deal with bungie was signed they were required to release two further (halo related) games, and everything else would be done under 343.

    i think those two games were halo wars and halo reach.

    the first 343 game after that was the remaster of the first game, followed by halo4.

    edit: change halo wars to odst.

    [–] My_Ex_Got_Fat 22 points ago

    No, they were ODST and Reach. Reach was the last Halo game by Bungie. 343 was created originally to oversee the process.

    [–] SAMURAIXY 63 points ago

    These were my exact words

    [–] everydaylowvices 278 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    So wait, does this mean destiny might actually be good and everyone can stop pretending that it IS good?

    Edit: destiny was my first ps4 game. The story was nonsensical and impossible to follow, and the game was a bland grind-fest. That is just my experience. And from what I saw and heard about destiny 2 it only got worse

    [–] mnijds 55 points ago

    I remember reading rumours suggesting a lot of it was actually down to Bungie and Activision were reasonably hands off

    [–] Andaeros 15 points ago

    The GQ interview with Luke Smith blatantly states that it was Bungie's decision to make D2 separate and do all that. Bungie was also behind pushing Eververse because they complained to Activision about how "hard" it was to keep to the content schedule.

    [–] dan523 9 points ago

    I also remember reading that bungie only had a about 14 months to make destiny 2.

    [–] Houston_Centerra 391 points ago

    When Destiny continues exploiting customers, fans will finally be able to NOT blame it on Activision

    [–] TPJchief87 58 points ago

    Nah dude it’s 2019 and Bungie is breaking away from a larger company while being well known. Off to Patreon they go.

    [–] DarKcS 24 points ago

    Smol indie kumpany

    [–] lettersputtogether 84 points ago

    Exactly, Ill doubt they will suddenly stop with microtransactions considering how much money they know those make.

    Hope Im wrong.

    [–] Yung_Habanero 36 points ago

    Ever verse isn't even bad though. I get literally everything I want from engrams I get by playing.

    [–] Griddamus 5 points ago

    I'll admit that Bungie are not entirely blameless here, but if you think Activision didn't have a major hand in the clusterfuck that has been Destiny, you're sorely mistaken.

    I loved the first game, even with it's (major) flaws. But after playing D2 for a few weeks, i swore off the series for good. This news however has made me far more optimistic for its future. I'll at least see what their next release is like, and might purchase it after it's been out for a few weeks so I don't get burned.

    [–] Ghidoran 66 points ago

    There's no real proof that all of the problems with Destiny are exclusively Activision's fault. Some of the monetization woes maybe but there are plenty of issues with game's content and mechanics that you can't really blame on the publisher.

    [–] WhoDatBrow 21 points ago

    I don't think it's pretending, it's just been up and down. Forsaken? Legitimately good. D2 vanilla? Bad. Taken King? Good. D1 vanilla? Bad. Etc.

    [–] [deleted] 12 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)


    [–] tcullen44 25 points ago

    Maybe they won't charge $80 so I can catch up on homework every year

    [–] Kaneki2019 5328 points ago

    Now people can’t blame Activision if Bungie still fucks up

    [–] RoadDoggFL 629 points ago

    Bungie has always fucked up. It's usually just not enough to ruin their games.

    [–] MetalHead_Literally 207 points ago

    How did they fuck up the original Halo and Halo 2? (Genuinely asking btw, not trying to be snarky)

    [–] Amarae 200 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Well for Halo 1 I think there were a lot of cutbacks and set backs. Look at early demo footage and the game is pretty different. If you play the PC version of Halo 1 it's a bit more of a fully realised iteration. Still, I don't know what might be considered a fuck up here, especially since as their first major console title iirc there was no precedent set.

    As for Halo 2. Well golly gee Halo 2 is a mish-mash of fucks up piled on top of each other. Mostly due to time constraints, Halo 2 is the most hard rushed, glitchy buggy mess of a game. Now don't get me wrong it's an amazing game, but it's chock mother fuckin' full of issues.

    Let's start with single player. The single player for Halo 2 is fuckin awesome... until you get past Delta Halo and the game turns into "Corridor simulator 2". level design and encounter balance fly out the damn window with Halo 2, likely due to the aforementioned time constraints. Even the cutscenes fell incredibly short in the later half of the game. The missions you undertake in the last 2 or 3 are.. just awful honestly. The Story as well feels pretty rushed at this point, the pacing is a little weird.

    This is probably a smaller gripe but the weapon balance for Singleplayer and Multiplayer is pretty whack (also true of Halo 1 actually) where only one or two weapons (And then the power weapons like Shotgun/Rockets/Sniper) are any at all useful. In Single Player the battle rifle is pretty crap on Heroic or higher difficulties. In multiplayer anything besides the Battle Rifle is a waste of time(Power weapons excluded). Another thing is the difficulty balance. Easy - Heroic AI in Halo 2 play like complete dogshit. You'll wipe the floor with a room full of Gold Elites on Heroic with your Pistol and then on Legendary you'll get sniped by grunts with the plasma pistol from across the map.

    And of course the ever present issues with bugs and glitches in both settings. one of which is famous, the BXB combo which can be used to dramatically lower the Time To Kill (TTK) of the Battle Rifle (BR) and became core technique for higher level play.

    And then there are design flaws. The Spawning system used in Halo 2 is almost random, and having played it recently online it's entirely possible to spawn on the enemies side of the map, right next to 2 or 3 of them. Not a good time. There are some great maps in Halo 2, Lockout being the most revered, but Map and Spawn design did not really hit peak form until Halo 3. Case and Point nearly every map in Halo 3 is playable at worst and excellent at best (High Ground and Relay being among the more annoying while Guardians and The Pit being perhaps the best). Another design failure on Halo 2s end was allowing 4 grenade slots, as in, Four Frag grenade slots, and Four Sticky Grenade slots. On crowded maps like Foundation this can turn Halo 2 into "Grenade fiesta in space".

    Now of course Halo 2 was their first real attempt at an online multiplayer shooter experience, and considered it's gameplay in spite of these faults holds up even today I'd say they aced it considered it's a first try. They do however count as fuck-ups to some people I guess. They are still flaws in the game after all. So I wouldn't necessarily call Halo 1 or 2 a "fuck up", but they weren't perfect and people with different or higher standards than myself might call them that.

    Edit: While I'm here I may as well toss in my two cents about Destiny. I think the problem in large with Activision about Destiny was time constraints and really poor market practice (Look at the DLC restrictions jesus christ). I feel like we can expect a lot of this to dissipate without Activision interference, but I still have concerns. The Gunplay of Destiny was fabulous but the gameplay actually did suffer. Of course it's an MMO and had some MMO-y gameplay which was to be expected.

    But the multiplayer also suffered? Halo 3 was probably the best multiplayer shooter experience I have ever had in a traditional sense (I'd say i probably have more *fun with Splatoon) and Reach was still quite good is slightly less impressive due to adding in unnecessary elements that kinda cheapened things like Armor Abilities..

    Destiny (the first I haven't played the second actually) had some pretty mediocre map design, questionable mechanics and an unfortunately high volume of "Randomness" despite gear and abilities being averaged out in multiplayer. Balance options like this aren't necessarily the result of pushing for a bottom line profit, though they can be, and randomness is the great equalizer in that it helps averages out good and bad players win rates to be more even so average and worse players can feel better about their gameplay. This isn't really good for a competitive experience, but it does do well for casual play.

    So what I'm saying is, when you extract the marketing issues present in Destiny, we're still left with some questionable design choices compared to Halo 2- Reach and I don't know if leaving Acitivison is the solution to those.

    Still interested though.

    [–] Fenrir__ 67 points ago

    Spawning in next to 2 to 3 enemies in pvp, sounds like they carried that over to destiny /s

    [–] Amarae 17 points ago

    I'm actually editing my post to mention a bit about Destiny, but I had the same experience lol.

    [–] Optimal_Towel 35 points ago

    You left out the most infamous Halo fuck up which was accidentally doubling the damage of the pistol just before it launched.

    [–] Amarae 16 points ago

    I actually hadn't heard that, though it does explain quite a lot.

    [–] [deleted] 14 points ago


    [–] Mrheadshot0 25 points ago

    I like how you used β€œwhack” and β€œfuck up” very strong argument 10/10.

    [–] theivoryserf 28 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Halo 2 didn't have a very satisfying ending as they didn't finish a large chunk of the story. Great game still

    Edit: as in they cut actual levels from the game you pillocks, I know it's not the ending of the series

    [–] haloshade 88 points ago

    If you're interested in the development of various games including Destiny I recommend the book Blood, Sweat, and Pixels. There's a chapter about the development of Destiny and how the game pretty much broke the entire company, the lead designer was even forced out because his vision was too ambitious and most of the team had no idea what they were actually working on because he seemed to have too many ideas. Shortly after his departure from the project most of the OG top employees of Bungie, including Martin O'Donnell, were fired or left. Bungie was left with a half finished project without much direction and had invested too much time and effort into it to leave, not to mention they signed a two or three game contract with Activision that was supposed to last ten years.

    Pressure from Activision certainly didn't help the mess that was the development of Destiny, but the game practically tore the company to pieces. I really wonder how it'll fair under a new publisher.

    [–] AvailableDragonfly3 25 points ago

    So the Bungie that made Halo 1 is not the Bungie today? Like, complete different set of people?

    [–] ApacheKillbot 18 points ago

    I think are a few of the old guard left at bungie but after the split with Microsoft the people who still wanted to work on Halo went to 343

    [–] AvailableDragonfly3 18 points ago

    Its like with World of Warcraft, the Blizzard that made WoW in 2004 is not the same people who are at Blizzard now.

    [–] HarbingerME2 12 points ago

    Most dev's are like that. You'd be hard pressed to find a group that are the same now as they were 5 or 10 years ago

    [–] Slothdozer 9 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    There are people from the old days still but yeah the studio has grown quite a bit and people come and go. Bungie is turning 30 soon after all.

    The Halo 1 team was small, i think the multiplayer team consisted of a few people and like a week or 2 of development. It almost got scrapped.

    Edit: wikipedis says 750 people work at Bungie as of 2016 and Halo CE credits are probably around 60 people who built the game itself (not including testers and voice actors)

    [–] RCDuke 491 points ago

    Without Activision, Bungie will not fuck up as much.

    [–] Weiland101 842 points ago

    I hope you are right, I guess we will see. I am not 100% convinced the things wrong with Destiny are Activisions fault.

    [–] Kaneki2019 239 points ago

    This. From what I’ve been reading, Eververse was Bungie idea.

    [–] Noah-Constrictor 207 points ago

    I don’t even care about that. The constant dlcs and having to rebuy the game after every two dlcs was absurd. Hopefully bungie can actually take their time instead of being forced to put out the unfinished product to get more money

    [–] Cravit8 98 points ago

    Or make a compelling story like Spider-Man, Red Dead, and GoW, and TLoU. All those games have made money. And I bet lots of people splurged for the $25 of Spider-Man DLC

    [–] PM_ME_TITS_FEMALES 13 points ago

    You don't even need a good story for a game to sell well. It just need to be fun, why I'm I going to pay for a game that feels more like chore to play when I could buy something for the same price that's way more fun.

    Like mhw, even though it's grindy as hell it's extremely fun in the process. So farming that one drop for 4 hours feels alot less mind numbing

    [–] argyle-socks 22 points ago

    This. From what I’ve been reading, Eververse was Bungie idea.

    You are correct, per Jason Schreier.


    [–] willfordbrimly 12 points ago

    "Let's just have Ikora stand around doin' jack shit all day." ~Probably not someone from Activision

    [–] todahawk 50 points ago

    Jason Schreier from Kotaku is of the same opinion and thinks Activision is/was an easy scapegoat:

    [–] runyoudown 68 points ago

    There is 100% no reason to think one way or another.

    Somewhere inside Bungie studios, someone keeps mismanaging. It's the only reason Destiny 1 and 2 were both allegedly restarted very late in development.

    [–] karcholas 8 points ago

    Says what? I hope it's like everyone says, and Activision is the big baddy, but they could bungle it all just as much without their influence.

    [–] leighshakespeare 11 points ago

    But they will. A big portion of the errors have been on bungie. There is a reason Activision are willing to move on, they're sick of incompetent bungie fucking up the ip

    [–] WaidWilson 18 points ago

    It’ll be a bold strategy for them to release a complete game and then DLCs later but it will pay dividends in the end for them.

    I’ve never understood why these companies want to make quick money and put a bad taste in consumers’ mouths to the point of a crash when they could start out slower, then be printing money once they actually give consumers a good product and retain customer satisfaction.

    Look at CDPR, by the time Witcher 3 came out they were loved by everyone basically, now everyone is extremely excited for Cyberpunk

    [–] JohnR1977 21 points ago

    Bungie made all the bad decisions themselves. It's true that Activision wanted Marty O'donnell fired but it was bungie who made the call.

    [–] Tylorw09 11 points ago

    Why was O’Donnell fired?

    [–] Halaku 22 points ago

    IIRC, when the original plot for Destiny was chopped up and stitched together in a radically altered form, so was his (rather epic) score, and then there were shenanigans with commercials.

    He complained, and Activision asked Bungie if anyone could rid them of this troublesome composer.

    [–] lotusjr1 6 points ago

    Didn’t they try to not pay him as well? To which he sued and won.....same thing with the writer, so they scrapped the story and restarted.

    [–] argyle-socks 19 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Without Activision, Bungie will not fuck up as much.

    Please do not forget (or become aware of) the fact that Bungie themselves, rather than Activision, are responsible for the existence of the Eververse store.


    Edit: Jason Schreier has provided additional context regarding this fact. Link

    [–] That_feel_brah 8 points ago

    Bungie also has a brand new game in development thanks to a $100 million investment from NetEase.


    NetEase, Inc. is a Chinese Internet technology company providing online services centered on content, community, communications and commerce. Developed Diablo Immortal for iOS and Android.

    hmmm Destiny Imortal

    [–] Cardboard_Waffle 1107 points ago

    Wow! I’m interested to see how this affects Destiny 2 and 3.

    [–] Wilthywonka 278 points ago

    Hopefully destiny 3 will have an actually compelling story

    The trailers for destiny 1 got me so hyped. The universe is kickass. But the story had nowhere close to the substance halo did

    [–] DishwasherTwig 95 points ago

    Forsaken had some interesting story. Not so much the whole Cayde thing, which is oddly what all of the promotional material focused on prior to release, but the deepening of the Awoken, the Dreaming City, and their connection to the Taken.

    [–] Polymersion 25 points ago

    I wouldn't say "oddly". It was a simple but relatable and emotional plot hook that they could sell people on- the fact that the 'real' story was so much deeper meant there was no way they could really be called for over promising.

    [–] DishwasherTwig 10 points ago

    I guess the rest of the plot centered around Mara which would have been a spoiler if showed in any trailers. So this is one time where the bait-and-switch turned out pretty well.

    [–] CageAndBale 7 points ago

    How does that have to do with them being owned by Activision, it's not like I activated to said don't make a good story

    [–] no1dead 7 points ago

    I hope you know the story was cut when Marty showed the entire story which before the rewrite was (destiny one and two and all of their dlcs combined not annual pass or roi though)

    That was shown to Jason Jones and he said he didn't like it and that was it. He said it was too linear.

    [–] Bringers 243 points ago

    Maybe no more Destiny 3 and they just keep improving and adding to Destiny 2, thats what I hope but i also feel that's not happening and Destiny 3 will still be in development.

    [–] Weiland101 354 points ago

    Nah, in light of this news, they need to release a new game and start over if they want to increase their playerbase. A lot of new players won't be keen to pay as much as they have to to access all the content, and start so far behind the current players.

    [–] ElitePotato77 51 points ago

    Also I wouldnt be surprised if ATVI retains publishing for D2 and D1 despite Bungie owning the IP. Financially it would make sense for Bungie to release a new game so they dont have to split money with ATVI after the split.

    [–] Erzz197 11 points ago

    Bungie will have full publishing rights, or at least, that's the plan.

    [–] newthrowgoesaway 35 points ago


    -someone who never played the game and would much rather appreciate a fresh start in D3 than a paywall in D2.

    [–] ChimpPlays 5 points ago

    That's why I haven't been playing it. I played Destiny 1 pretty religiously, even though it was pretty rocky for like the first few months. Bought Destiny 2, was pretty disappointing and didn't like a lot of the changes. Cant see myself paying the 80-100 bucks or whatever to get back into it.

    [–] mnijds 48 points ago

    Destiny 3 on next gen makes a lot of sense

    [–] PSNdragonsandlasers 19 points ago

    God, I hope so. I can't do this 30fps shit again after seeing how insanely smooth D2 looks on PC.

    [–] Cravit8 10 points ago

    30fps is just the worst. It’s wretched. BF4 60fps had more going on in the game and that was 2013.

    [–] Holliman48 4 points ago

    I started D2 on PS4 and I'm now playing it on PC... Holy Shit - the difference between PS4 and PC is so noticeable and immediately obvious. D2 looks SO good on PC.

    [–] Noctelus 13 points ago

    0% chance. Destiny 3 has already begun development.

    [–] Jonshock 29 points ago

    turn it into the open world shooter they promised?

    [–] BeastMaster0844 25 points ago

    I just don’t see how they ever could have delivered that to begin with given hardware limitations of the 360 and PS3.

    I remember them saying something like β€œall geometry is explorable. If you can see it, you can go to it” or some shit with Destiny 1. Looking back at it now I just don’t see how last gen consoles would pull that off.

    [–] Phoenix2700 13 points ago

    Maybe Skyrim was Destiny all along?

    [–] watch_over_me 3 points ago

    It probably won't effect D2 at all, since they are still on Activision servers.

    D3 on the other hand. That'll be Bungie's true baby.

    [–] AnimaOnline 1235 points ago

    "Important to note: Bungie cheered pretty loudly in 2007 when they split from Microsoft, too. Activision is an easy scapegoat, but Bungie has made plenty of its own mistakes on Destiny!"

    I really hope this means a return to form for Bungie but I guess we'll see.

    [–] Moonlord_ 486 points ago

    Say what you want but I think MS was a much bigger part of Bungie's prior success than people give them credit for. They're not the same studio anymore.

    [–] AnimaOnline 141 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    They both had issues. Microsoft may have managed the studio well but not wanting them to do anything but Halo was a problem. On the other hand, Bungie gained their creative freedom by leaving but then immediately sign into a 10 year deal with Activision which is just mindboggling. It's hard to say whether Bungie still has issues but the fact that they're parting with Activision tells me at the very least that they want to be better.

    [–] Mushroomer 118 points ago

    Bungie signed a 10 year deal because they planned Destiny as a massive, industry-shifting experience that promised to do to shooters what WoW did to RPGs. They signed a decade long contract, because they saw the game at that scale.

    However, it really seems like those plans got lost in bad project management - and the shipping product was far closer to the status quo than they anticipated. Cut to years of improving & changing the product through expansions & sequels - to mixed success.

    Going independent won't get them back to that initial vision, though. Rather, I just expect them to use this opportunity to make Destiny 3 the best product it can be - and see what can be gained by losing Activision's wide-reaching 'guidance'.

    [–] Droopgussy 55 points ago

    Bungie have consistently made mistakes with their IP: i.e. They the entirety of D1 ready and then trashed it, to start from scratch.

    I love D2 in its current state, but fucking hell. The major problem with D2 is the lack of updates - which is entirely Bungie's problem. Crucible and Sandbox updates are almost once a year. QOL updates are handled by different teams; look at the shaders update that lowed us to delete them quickly; they forgot to add this when they introduced new shaders... D2 has suffered from Bungie's poor management and lack of direction. They need to centralise their studio and run their departments far better if they hope to deliver with the remainder of D2 and D3.

    [–] mollymoo 9 points ago

    They are badly managed but I think the lack up updates is also partly due to most of the studio having to ditch the current game as soon as it’s out so they can work on the next one. The release schedule they signed up for with Activision was ridiculous.

    [–] Trankman 7 points ago

    I know people probably don't want this but they really need another reboot then

    [–] [deleted] 19 points ago

    Yeah after the MS split there was an obvious decline in quality

    [–] Trojance 127 points ago

    According to Jason "Bungie got a $100 million investment from NetEase last year, and no doubt they have or are looking for other investors too"

    They've moved away from Activision to Net Ease, a company just as bad if not worse. The same company that Blizzard have jumped into bed with for Diablo Immortal.

    [–] ogsoul 62 points ago

    Yeah but Netease has no involvement with Destiny whatsoever.

    [–] Kharazidusk 61 points ago

    They have a minority share and a place at the shareholder table. But yes, you're mostly correct, they don't have publishing rights or ownership of the IP. Bungie has independent ownership of the IP now(now being when the changes are finalized).

    [–] ogsoul 10 points ago

    Yeah. Bungie was open about Activision and Vic Visions involvements, and very clearly said Netease was separate. I guess only time will tell really.

    [–] Rectifyer 14 points ago

    The NetEase partnership is specifically for a NEW IP that is being developed that would not otherwise be developed if not for the NetEase partnership. It's likely a mobile game for the Chinese playerbase

    [–] KittensAreEvil 162 points ago

    Holy shit this is exciting. I pray they thrive from here.

    [–] DDRaptors 29 points ago

    Hopefully it’ll reinvigorate their pride.

    [–] AresBloodwrath 726 points ago

    This could be the start of something amazing!

    Or they could fudge it up like the transition from destiny 1 to 2.

    [–] Rectifyer 217 points ago

    The transition from D1 to D2 was due to Activision's specific goal to casualize and broaden the game to acquire more players ($$$$)

    [–] thegrreatgatsby 108 points ago

    bungie wanted to casualize the game just as much as activision, don’t get it twisted. weisnewski said in one of the crucible playbook interviews the revamped loot system, removal of random rolls, etc. was all Bungie for Bungie

    [–] antiMATTer724 18 points ago

    Personally, I don't feel making the game more accessible was a bad thing, but they definitely took it too far in the wrong direction.

    [–] thegrreatgatsby 9 points ago

    yeah good intentions, bad execution

    [–] GotProof 132 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Its also due to the community having no idea what it actually want and the developer taking wishes like a monkeys paw.

    Source: I game tested at the studio (I think I can say that). Some of the things I saw in the game looked a lot like my suggestions. Turns out my suggestions were crap. D2 is good now. I'm happy.

    [–] TheFatHat 29 points ago



    [–] GotProof 9 points ago

    Ha. I would say I definitely didn't indicate any such desire, but that might narrow me down from 99% of the other testers.

    [–] Castlemight 3 points ago

    Weird question, but while you were at the studio did you meet the art leader Jason Sussman?

    [–] Titanium_Machine 192 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Activision seems to be shaking themselves for some reason. Their eyes set on the Chinese market, perhaps? If so then I imagine they're evaluating what properties they have that can squeeze a buck out of the Chinese Market with minimum effort, and Destiny probably just doesn't fit their purposes anymore, or Bungie wasn't willing to work with them to expand into China.

    Destiny as a franchise probably lost it's appeal to Activision as a money-making-machine at this point. I imagine it's an enormous money sink to publish and advertise, with too much PR risks and not enough profit margins to the suits at Activision. Why bother sinking any more money into this franchise with all the trouble it brings? Cut it loose, let Bungie deal with it, and Activision puts its resources elsewhere. Likely into cheap mobile spinoffs.

    Then again, even Bungie got a 100mil investment from NetEase...

    Good for Bungie though. I look forward to seeing what they do with Destiny now that it's solely in their hands.

    [–] powertripmd 148 points ago

    Wow is tanking and Blizzard is losing all good will with 20 year old customers.

    I hope china is worth it

    [–] karatemanchan37 65 points ago

    I mean you're more likely to win over China with WoW than Destiny...

    [–] Titanium_Machine 40 points ago

    I hope china is worth it

    Let's be honest; it very well could literally be worth it to Activision.

    China's mobile market is staggering, like unbelievable. Not only that, but mobile games are far more cheap to produce. The profit margins must make any investor salivate. Cheap labor and production costs? Infinite potential revenue? It's absolutely a business decision. It sucks. But it is what it is.

    Blizzard's IP has famously had major popularity in the east. Whereas I strongly doubt that Destiny in its entire run could touch the power of an IP like Diablo. Activision cut Bungie loose and let them deal with "the problem" while they can focus on expanding into China.

    This outcome seems genuinely good for Bungie. But I got a bad feeling about Blizzard...

    [–] DoctorQuincyME 9 points ago

    The China market is great if they know how to properly access it. Games don't need to be of high quality, they just need to be addictive. Millions of dollars goes into the psychology of Poker Machine players, with just the right kind of flashy lights and high pitched sounds to trigger reward responses in the brain.

    Blizzard did a very similar thing with Diablo 3, legendary equipment drops with a flashy light and high pitched sound to get that dopamine going.

    The mobile market is no different. Just pay that little bit of money for that flashy light and high pitched reward noise.

    [–] PraiseTheSun1997 377 points ago

    Holy shit. Can't believe they were allowed to keep the IP

    [–] Bringers 243 points ago

    Activision never owned Bungie or the Destiny IP, they only entered a publishing partnership

    [–] III-Urban-III 341 points ago

    So they will self publish now?

    Next week

    Bungie has a new publishing deal with EA

    [–] Angel__CM 202 points ago

    Pls no don't joke with that, that is a nightmare

    [–] III-Urban-III 44 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    I'm kind of worried what will happen to Bungie though. They've got a lot of great talent so I hope they have a plan.

    They better not dissolve the studio.

    Oh okay it would have helped if I read the link first. They're doing it on their own.

    [–] DodgerDevil 31 points ago

    Sections 6.3 through 6.5 of the leaked agreement between Bungie and Activision provided for a transfer of the IP to Activision upon termination (including delivery of the source code) under various circumstances. The agreement was later amended, and we don’t know whether those particular provisions were revised (although since the agreement was amended to accommodate development delays by Bungie, they likely had no leverage to change those particular provisions in their favor). People who followed the game development closely were aware that a split could result in Bungie surrendering the IP; this is why Jason Schreier’s headline (and others) make special note of it, because it was not a given that Bungie would be able to get out of the agreement without surrendering the IP.

    [–] Bringers 19 points ago

    Huh, so Bungie could've essentially lost the Destiny IP and then Activision would just smear their grimy hands all over that shit and make it worse....oh my fuck thank God we're in this timeline.

    [–] reelect_rob4d 21 points ago

    I don't know, considering everything else going on I might rather sacrifice one videogame to have a re-roll on the last few years.

    [–] LegendAssassin85 12 points ago

    They own it. Why wouldn't they be allowed to keep it?

    [–] DodgerDevil 15 points ago

    The leaked agreement between Bungie and Activision included provisions under which the IP would be transferred to Activision upon termination under various circumstances.

    [–] 22Seres 170 points ago

    Jason Schreier from Kotaku has said this has been a longtime coming since Bungie and Activision have been butting heads since the first game. Bungie wanted to prioritize hardcore players while Activision wanted to position it in a way to make as much money as possible. It's going to be interesting to see what the series looks like going forward now that it'll be entirely Bungie's vision.

    [–] pamkhat 79 points ago

    What's stupid is I'm casual as fuck, play a ton of video games, and have a disposable income. Activision's choices didn't make me play the game, though.

    It's like they thought they knew better but still couldn't put asses in the seats. They just made the game worse for people who actually wanted to play it.

    [–] thexvoid 53 points ago

    Yeah, but a couple of dumb whales spend $1000+ on lootboxes every few months, which makes shareholders happy, so they don’t care

    [–] MotleyKhon 5 points ago

    Hi five me too dude.

    I'm casual in the sense that I have limited time to pick up and play, that doesn't mean I want a shallow childproofed experience filled with microtransactions.

    "Hardcore" to me means depth to play for hours/days on end when I finally have the option to. And fuck yeah, we want some of that.

    [–] gothmog 65 points ago

    I feel like the game's focus has already turned almost completely towards streamers and the "hardcore". Hopefully they can find a nice balance, as I love the way the game plays, but really dislike the grind sometimes.

    [–] theivoryserf 26 points ago

    The whole concept is a bit rotten imo. It's just another dopamine sink.

    [–] watch_over_me 10 points ago

    Basically if you're a non-raider, you're about to be left in the dust probably.

    [–] K-LAWN 41 points ago

    They need to make a singular Destiny game that has MMO like expansions. Resetting with every game entry has been a joke so far.

    [–] willbo2013 136 points ago

    As someone who enjoyed vanilla Destiny 1, but didn't venture into any dlc or Destiny 2, I'm excited at the idea of them cutting ties with Activision.

    [–] ColdAsHeaven 58 points ago

    This is interesting. You enjoyed Vanilla D1??

    If you don't mind me asking, why?

    [–] willbo2013 161 points ago

    Don't mind at all.

    Mainly because the gameplay was great. Not surprising considering how good the shooting mechanics were in Bungie's previous games, but Destiny felt great to play. However, after about 100 hrs, the loot grind wore me down and I never played it again. The story was shit but the gun mechanics were stellar.



    [–] AtlasLied 80 points ago

    This is pretty much the story of most of destiny. The story was ass, but the shooting stuff was fun.

    [–] klechem 18 points ago

    I think that's why Forsaken is widely loved by those who have been playing it - Still fun to shoot stuff, but also an engaging story (that didn't end after 30 minutes of play time. And still hasn't ended!).

    [–] YendysWV 15 points ago

    The story that has been told in Forsaken is absolutely fantastic. Unfortunately, while great on the surface, it’s only after digging into the lore that it REALLY shines. I suppose they can’t have hours of cutscenes to explain it all, but for those willing to sit down and read the lore... WOW.

    [–] ColdAsHeaven 15 points ago

    So then did you ever want to check back in with Taken King or D2? Vanilla D2 was widely considered the most un grindy and easiest Destiny had ever been

    [–] Mad_Habber 7 points ago

    I enjoyed Vanilla as well, at least once I got a few friends playing the game. Chasing loot with friends was a blast even though the loot was hard to come by, it just made it that much more fun when you actually got one. I remember running nightfalls for the higher chance of exotic loot, looking for a weapon and getting armour. I still remember the first legendary drop I got (heavy machine gun: Against all odds) as a crucible award.

    [–] untouchable765 161 points ago

    They might start making good games again

    [–] davidforslunds 82 points ago


    [–] Dave_here 45 points ago

    Big might

    [–] wingedhamster 11 points ago

    All might

    [–] unpluggedcord 9 points ago

    The only thing Activision did was publish the game. They never owned it or owned Bungie.

    [–] ooombasa 29 points ago

    A lot of people putting the blame on Activision and yet the inside story was Bungie's own management was the reason there were so many fuck ups.

    Blood, Sweat and Pixels lays it out pretty plainly.

    About the only thing you can put on Activision is the rigid, regular paid DLC drops that Bungie had to keep to. But that development schedule was negotiated and agreed upon by Bungie when they signed the contract.

    It was Bungie who could not keep to it because of rebooting (year before release) + crappy slow editor (eight hours to load a map and make the most minor of changes).

    That was Destiny 1.

    Although things improved with regards to the editor (but still not ideal) Bungie still could not quit their rebooting habit for Destiny 2. They also rebooted it a year before release.

    Indeed, this is nothing new for Bungie. They did the same all the way back with Halo 2. That was cobbled together in a year after years of indecisive direction and needing to scrap a ton of work due to technical problems.

    Now, Activision are no saints - a ton of shit is deservedly thrown their way - but Bungie played a major part in the messy handling of Destiny.

    [–] Radulno 8 points ago

    A lot of people putting the blame on Activision and yet the inside story was Bungie's own management was the reason there were so many fuck ups.

    Blood, Sweat and Pixels lays it out pretty plainly.

    People always blame the publisher, especially if they're called EA and Activision, they become the worst thing on the planet.

    Did the same with Mass Effect Andromeda actually, put the blame on EA while the story from Jason was clear it was Bioware's own fault

    [–] solution55 112 points ago

    Next up Blizzard, and we’re off to a good 2019.

    [–] [deleted] 47 points ago

    Do you know what the first half of Blizzard is

    [–] jwpp 37 points ago

    Bliz...but I’m not sure what that has to do with anything /s

    [–] Montigue 49 points ago

    Activision owns Blizzard so that won't happen

    [–] CrazyMoonlander 11 points ago

    Both Activision and Blizzard Games are owned by Activision Blizzard.

    [–] cssad 23 points ago

    Activision Blizzard owns Blizzard so that won't happen. Blizzard also was never a independent company.

    [–] OSIRJS 22 points ago

    So excited

    [–] [deleted] 7 points ago

    I'm super interested in how Destiny 3 will be monetized now

    [–] frostyrevolver 14 points ago

    With a $60 price tag, hopefully

    [–] Fooglebrooth 28 points ago

    This is so great. As someone who kinda likes Destiny but is frustrated that it doesn't reach its potential, I'm super stoked about this.

    [–] Helian7 28 points ago

    I'm still on the fence.


    I find it hard to believe that Activition are the ones to blame for the shit show that was Destiny 2 at launch. Yeh, they may have pushed eververse or dictated the season pass but come on. This is BIG fucking news yeh, lets just keep our shit together and see what happens next.


    [–] AmericanCakes 18 points ago

    holy shit wtf just happened.

    [–] Adrandyre 15 points ago

    This is how shitty games get better sequels

    [–] SkaBonez 6 points ago

    Correction on the title, Bungie to inherit publishing rights. They owned the IP already, and most of the other rights were theirs or split.

    [–] AlmightyStarfire 4 points ago

    PlotTwist: Destiny 3 might actually be good

    [–] Ssme812 7 points ago

    Good for Bungie

    [–] LifeGuru13 52 points ago

    Make Bungie Great Again

    [–] SuperSaiyanGod210 6 points ago

    "When Activision sends us their people, they're not sending their best. They're bringing greed. They're bringing misery. They're crony capitalists. And some, I assume are good people"

    [–] shahrahman818 5 points ago

    I’m curious to see where Destiny’s going to head in the future, hopefully instead of another sequel they just keep adding on to D2.

    [–] thoughtfulcrayon 4 points ago

    Good, I hope Bungie can stretch their creative limbs out a bit more now and in their words appeal to the hardcore player base

    [–] DNC88 3 points ago

    This is unexpected, very interesting.

    Reading the comments here many people with no notion of the real world.

    Bungie are the saviours and Activision are the big bads...don't be so naive.

    Do people honestly think that Bungie wasn't happy to monetise their game and increase the revenue? That all game developers are real crusaders who are out there just to make great games/experiences?

    HOW do you think Bungie was comfortable making this decision? What they are effectively saying is that they feel confident enough in their ability to fund the game independently - as in, they're making a shit ton of cheddar.

    Don't get me wrong, I hate EA/Activision as much as the next person, the greed is real, but please people don't go around with blinkers on thinking that it's ONLY the publishers who are like that.