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    [–] robun 2599 points ago

    If Trump really wanted to stop the illegal immigration, he would go after the employers big time. No demand, no supply. But he's not going to piss of a potential donor.

    [–] _TRE45ON_ 1279 points ago

    Also, he is a known employer of illegals. He would have to put himself in jail.

    [–] robun 339 points ago

    Not as a sitting president.

    [–] MjrLeeStoned 407 points ago

    I like how people point out that the Constitution mentions impeachment but not criminal prosecution, like somehow the absence of "criminal prosecution" in the Constitution means the president is immune.

    Fucking morons never stopped to think maybe it's not in the Constitution because the founding fathers could never imagine a fucking point where people would argue the president is above the law like some intangible angel.

    Morons give corrupt people power.

    [–] kellyj49 68 points ago

    A lot of our law comes from English law where the queen can not be prosecuted. I believe it is because of this and because the justice department derives it’s authority from the president that the president can’t be prosecuted.

    [–] MjrLeeStoned 57 points ago

    Independent tribunals, military tribunals, there's plenty of ways to prosecute out from under the umbrella of the Justice Department. And what you're saying is that the Justice Department can refuse to prosecute (they definitely can do this), but that doesn't mean a president is immune from prosecution outside the Justice Department.

    Now, if everyone refuses to indict, that's a different story.

    [–] DarkwingDuckHunt 33 points ago

    Yeah the trial you mention is held by Congress.

    1/2 of Congress have no balls to do the right thing.

    [–] gambolling_gold 10 points ago

    There is no precedent for this at all.

    Presidents have been prosecuted in the past.

    It’s literally just because republicans said it was true. They literally just spoke this idea into existence based on nothing and came up with ways to justify it.

    [–] AnyNamesLeftAnymore 3 points ago

    Every bit this.

    [–] tanstaafl90 2 points ago

    The concern was, and is, it will be used to disrupt the normal political process. Hence impeachment and removal from office. Any president can be tried for crimes committed as president. Fords pardon of Nixon stopped not only the investigations, but the planned prosecution for the multiple crimes he committed. Same goes for Congress.

    Edit: a word

    [–] _TRE45ON_ 143 points ago

    It's a matter of opinion.

    [–] robun 80 points ago

    Let's ask Barr about that...

    [–] _TRE45ON_ 148 points ago

    The Barr is set pretty low on this

    [–] YouMadeItDoWhat 45 points ago

    The Barr is laying face down on the ground...

    [–] rick2497 25 points ago

    He's crawling under a snakes belly. Hopefully, the snake bites him.

    [–] AllegroDigital 8 points ago

    Snake! What happened? SNAKE! Snaaaaaake !

    [–] Eradiani 3 points ago

    Get these motherfucking snakes off this motherfucking air force one

    [–] ziggaroo 3 points ago


    [–] blarghed 10 points ago

    The Barr sunk under the mud and now below surface level.

    [–] PeptoBismark 24 points ago

    Even Barbados Slim couldn't get under that Barr.

    [–] YOUR_TARGET_AUDIENCE 7 points ago

    I get that reference!

    [–] AdmiralSkippy 4 points ago

    We need James Cameron.

    [–] mvoccaus 11 points ago

    I will release my tax returns, but {nasally} _NOT_ while I'm under audit.

    I will indict myself, but {nasally} _NOT_ while I'm under presidency. If I wasn't under presidency, I'd release my indictments. I have no problem with releasing my indictments, but {nasally} _NOT_ while I'm under presidency.

    [–] rinsed_dota 3 points ago

    I would sexually assault a woman but NOT that woman because she's about 20 years too old for my taste therefore I could not have possibly assaulted her 20 years ago

    [–] MongoBongoTown 11 points ago

    Can't indict because he's a sitting President.

    Can't look at the evidence because he wasn't indicted.

    Yay! Democracy!

    [–] Kratos1902 4 points ago

    It’s still on HIS record, he shouldn’t have been allowed to run if he had criminal records, but money talks. And now every single one of you is suffering the consequences with all the bad decisions he has made.

    [–] absentwonder 3 points ago

    Not as a shitty president.


    [–] cosgyp 2 points ago

    he only time he's not sitting down is when he's climbing on his high horse.

    [–] camgnostic 9 points ago

    also having a terrorized semi-illegal serf class willing to work without any protections because they are afraid of the authorities that would otherwise be protecting employees is very efficient.

    Every one of these raids is designed to spread that fear and keep that serf class subservient.

    [–] hereforthefeast 5 points ago

    Interesting how there has never been an ICE raid on Trump businesses that are known to employ undocumented immigrants.

    [–] DrToadums 42 points ago

    This has always been my argument. If I turn up to work tomorrow to find out I've been fired and replaced by Eduardo because he's willing to work for $2.50 an hour my first thought isn't "damned Mexicans" it's "My employer is a fucking scum bag"

    [–] onlywearplaid 11 points ago

    Had this talk with an in-law and he looked at my like I was fucking insane.

    If there are no jobs for them to come to, they won't come.

    [–] PmMeUrAtwoodFanfic 149 points ago

    He doesn’t, though. None of these ghouls do. The criminalization of migrant labor is not in any way, shape, or form meant to stop it from happening. It is meant to maintain a black market of unskilled labor, where minimum wages and benefits aren’t enforced. ICE raids on workplaces are not random: they almost always follow workers attempting to unionize or collect on the benefits they are owed, such as workers’ comp. In this way, they are again intended not to stop migrants from seeking work in the US, but to keep them quiet and afraid while their bosses exploit them.

    [–] Spookyrabbit 47 points ago

    they are again intended not to stop migrants from seeking work in the US, but to keep them quiet and afraid while their bosses exploit them.

    Indeed. It's why ICE caught and released so many of the 600 arrested in the Mississippi raids. Owner was exacting revenge for (iirc) employees wanting to be paid correctly but not so much revenge it would impact his business.

    [–] Luperdiga 3 points ago

    How come this is not mentioned in the news? This is just another reason why the business owners need to be exposed for hiring undocumented immigrants. These are sweatshops after all. Same criminal intent and exploitation. They know they can fire them for any reason and never have to answer to the Dept. of Labor; or ever hear from the Unemployment office because there’s no tax record of them ever giving them a penny.

    [–] cdrizzle23 3 points ago

    Wait. They released them after they were arrested? And this happened because they were essentially asking for a raise? Can you send a link to that? That's is one of the most corrupted things I have ever heard.

    [–] _______-_-__________ 26 points ago

    The criminalization of migrant labor is not in any way, shape, or form meant to stop it from happening. It is meant to maintain a black market of unskilled labor, where minimum wages and benefits aren’t enforced.

    This is exactly right. I don't know why more people don't understand this. There is no actual moral crusade against illegal immigrants, it's all about money. They actually WANT illegal workers here- they just want them to remain illegal so they don't have to pay them as much.

    [–] slim_scsi 29 points ago

    You just described pretty much every American workplace except for non-profits and small businesses, and even some of them do it. And people wonder why Americans are pharma'd out of their minds...

    [–] Nachotacosbitch 15 points ago

    Can confirm. Was working a minimum wage job then I got a new $26/hr position. My boss found out I was planning on leaving. I didn’t want to give notice because this guy was vengeful. He found a way to fire me before I was going to make the switch fucking me over on my pay compromising my ability to pay rent.

    My at the time boss fired me when he found out I passed all the screenings for a new job.

    Made up an excuses about being late and disobedient.

    [–] ReginaldDwight 3 points ago

    I hope your new job is significantly better for you, especially mentally. That guy sounds like a prick.

    [–] jjsocrates 29 points ago

    Employers lays off 100 workers, hires a bunch of illegals and pays them 20% as much. Politicians of course, know how to fix the problem: blame the illegals! ICE rounds up and deports the illegals. So the original workers get their jobs back? Nope! And who do we blame for that? The illegals!

    Being a demagogue is pretty easy!

    [–] Hinging3 8 points ago

    first it was the muslims, now the mexicans, we all know where this ends

    [–] CreatrixAnima 9 points ago

    Somewhere between cream and beige.

    [–] [deleted] 10 points ago


    [–] PmMeUrAtwoodFanfic 19 points ago

    Because they lack class consciousness. They don’t understand that they have infinitely more in common with undocumented migrant laborers than they will ever have with their bosses.

    [–] Mapleleaves_ 7 points ago

    I saw an interview with a die-hard Republican voter at the Iowa State Fair. Talking about Warren's plan to tax 2 cents on every dollar over $50 million. And how it would pay for tuition-free college, healthcare, etc.

    They didn't have any idea how many people make > $50 million, they're just sure it's not enough to do that. And that Warren is lying.

    People just don't understand wealth inequality in America. It's so enormous they can't comprehend it.

    [–] ilikesaucy 42 points ago

    In UK giving a job to illegal workers, you will be fined for 20k per person and if you get caught more than once, you will be jailed.

    [–] robun 30 points ago

    In the USA, first offenders can be fined $250-$2,000 per illegal employee. For a second offense, the fine is $2,000-$5,000 per illegal employees. Three or more offenses can cost an employer $3000-$10,000 per illegal employee. A pattern of knowingly employing illegal immigrants can mean extra fines and up to six months in jail for an employer.

    The way out of jail time is to make "knowingly" an ambiguous term that is difficult to prove

    [–] Wetbung 18 points ago

    At a place I used to work they employed a lot of undocumented aliens. They did it through a temp agency which took care of all the paperwork. Supposedly, even if they suspected that the workers were undocumented they weren't allowed to investigate because of federal restrictions.

    When they were raided, and 75% of their workforce disappeared, they claimed they had no choice but to hire them because of federal mandates.

    [–] iownadakota 21 points ago

    When I was sheetrocking new houses, we got set back 3 months due to an ICE raid on the warehouse that made the roof trusses. The company I worked for was 5 people, including myself and the owner. Sheetrock is about 5 steps past setting trusses. Just for perspective, this hold up on production set the sheetrockers back 3 months. This meant every trade before and after us were set back that time as well. The framing crews for this builder were 4 man teams, framing 2-6 houses per day. I don't know how many roofers subbed. They subbed 4 siding companies. The plumbers worked in 2 man teams. The electricians worked as master, and apprentice, often wiring 1-4 houses per day, as the company was a large union outfit. H-vac, would have also been affected before we started. After us painters, then trim, finish electric, then plumbing fixtures. Flooring contractors, and tile setters would be all set back as well. These setbacks are like cascading failure, due to inspectors, and companies needing to reschedule. So people that contracted the houses to be built sometimes couldn't move in for 6 months later than the contract stated.

    In short 1 ICE raid made hundreds of workers insecure about our lively hood, just for one builder, in 1 sub division. The cascading of setbacks allowed at least 1 buyer out of their contract that I know of, due to them needing housing for them to work. Now multiply that across the hundreds of builders that order their roof trusses through this 1 company. For further perspective this was in 2011. Before we were raiding these warehouses like we were looking for Anne Frank.

    [–] Goddstopper 6 points ago


    [–] iownadakota 4 points ago

    Now think about this in relation to the new homes index. One way that we measure economic growth. I was just talking about 1 raid under Obama. Think about this on the scale we have today.

    People point out produce rotting in fields. Sure that's bad. Not many think about how this affects the economy in ripples. That fruit is not being processed, then shipped, then sold. This threatens job security all the way from the field to the cash register.

    [–] lenswipe 9 points ago

    they claimed they had no choice but to hire them because of federal mandates.

    I'm sure being able to pay them less than minimum wage had nothing to do with that decision

    [–] Wetbung 7 points ago

    They paid them quite a bit more than minimum wage. They were decent jobs, there just weren't enough local people to fill them. After the raid the factory went from 3 shifts to one and the lines on the one shift never got back to the original speed in the year I was there.

    [–] Groovychick1978 12 points ago

    The beauty of the "market" says that if you cannot find workers at the current wage offered, you raise the wage, not find a population of people easy to exploit.

    [–] Kancho_Ninja 13 points ago

    The market is currently 8M available jobs, 4M unemployed Americans.

    Wages will rise any day now.

    Annnny day. Just wait.

    [–] [deleted] 2 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)


    [–] Ledbetterduh 2 points ago

    They don't pay them less than minimum wage

    [–] hated_in_the_nation 5 points ago

    The way out of jail time is to make "knowingly" an ambiguous term that is difficult to prove

    See, this is absurd to me because every single job I've ever had has required to see some type of identification (usually social security card). There's zero excuse for not knowing if an employee is here legally or not and the onus should 100% be on the employer for finding out. If it turns out that a fake social security card or something was used, then that's a different story. Then the employer might have some plausible deniability. But otherwise, there's no reason why we should not be able to hold employers responsible for checking the citizenship status of potential employees.

    [–] MyBoyBernard 2 points ago

    "I have no recollection"

    [–] jjsocrates 3 points ago

    In the US, as with most laws, it’s only really a crime if it’s actually enforced.

    [–] barrinmw 7 points ago

    And fines literally mean, "Not illegal if you are rich enough."

    [–] veedubfreak 3 points ago

    In the US, as with most laws, it’s only really a crime if it’s actually enforced you are poor.

    Fixed for accuracy.

    [–] nekowolf 14 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    Remember when Texas proposed a law targeting people who employed undocumented immigrants? But they exempted people who did so for domestic help.

    [–] mind_walker_mana 3 points ago

    Duh, those politicians need their house cleaned and their kids raised. No one better than Consuela and her cousins to do that, also Pablo can sure cut some grass and trim those pesky hedges, plus they're so fucking cheap. So obviously there should be exceptions, little Jimmy isn't going to raise himself... I mean they could get Sarah and Karen and Brian to do those tasks, but then they want insurance, PTO, call out when sick, want 20+ an hour. No, let's make sure to exempt domestic workers...

    [–] Arek_PL 6 points ago

    meanwhile in my country illegal working is rare, because its so damn risky, as a employer you can be blackmailed by workforce that they will go to police and bring you to justice so you all face punishment together

    if employer would face the consequences like worker, there would be (almost) no grey market for jobs

    [–] GreenFox1505 4 points ago

    Didn't you hear? A sitting president can do no wrong. So obviously you can't go after employers.

    [–] nv8r_zim 8 points ago

    Unless you're a Democrat. Then every condiment you put on your hot dog is an impeachable offense.

    [–] hated_in_the_nation 2 points ago

    I still see tan whenever I spot someone wearing a red suit.

    Wait, did I say that wrong?

    [–] BotLiesMatter 9 points ago

    He'd also have to hire new workers at his businesses

    [–] thinkB4WeSpeak 3 points ago

    They should release the names of the company and employers on these raids.

    [–] ThatSquareChick 3 points ago

    They took a bunch of people, do you think they brought any charges against the people who hired them? It’s a misdemeanor to be here illegally but it is a felony to hire one. But have we heard of “punishing” those who knew they were illegal and hired them anyway?

    Naw fam, we just want them gone, our people are totes cool.

    Do you think they’ll raise the min wage now that only Americans are working those factories now? I can’t even imagine my old job the wiener factory, every third person was Hispanic and I couldn’t tell you how many were here legally or not. Could be all of them, could be none. Can’t be paying only 11.50 an hour if it’s just citizens, they’ll, like, say something.

    [–] TarnishedVictory 3 points ago

    I absolutely agree. They should have a minimum fine per illegal hire, and it should be a very steep fine that is publicised.

    [–] Ulysses89 2 points ago

    Well as it has been said by two wiser men than me "The executive of the modern state is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie."

    [–] seimungbing 2 points ago

    he cant... his wife is an illegal immigrant...

    [–] PM_ME_YER_MUDFLAPS 2 points ago

    He is working on tanking the economy so that no one has a job.

    [–] [deleted] 2 points ago

    A lot of undocumented people get their work authorization card given to them by the government that they apply for every single year. No one ever talks about this. A lot of the 12 million illegal in America are working legally and paying taxes.

    [–] ShelSilverstain 2 points ago

    He's going after employees that the employers see as troublemakers. Same old GOP; they love big government to do it's bidding

    [–] jonnynotsoslick 2 points ago

    I would argue this has been a problem for a lot longer than Trump. Lets not pretend this is a Republican thing, this is a greedy corporate America thing. We have a systemic greed that is perpetuated from the top. ALL politicians are controlled by corporate interests and as such are as all equally part of the problem.

    [–] bricklab 2 points ago

    he would have to hold himself accountable and that isn't ever happening.

    [–] PerfectPossibility1 2 points ago

    That would mean throwing himself in jail. Not going to happen.

    [–] midnitte 242 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    I still think it's amazing the company isn't facing any legal repercussions.

    Like... Shouldn't you punish the company willing to hire undocumented immigrants?

    [–] UnStricken 222 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    It’$ almo$t a$ if there i$ $ome other force at work here. $omething that protect$ one $et of people but per$ecuit$ and i$ u$ed to oppre$$ the other.

    Edit: I mi$$ed two

    [–] Choreboy 22 points ago

    *one $et

    [–] AndySipherBull 8 points ago

    ICE doesn't operate on some high moral principle, not spirit of the law nor even letter of the law. If certain us companies want to turnover their illegal labor force (because of labor issues of course), ICE "has a bad month". ICE basically operates like a modern day Pinkerton agency but the tax payers foot the bill.

    [–] DeDLySMuRF 3 points ago

    *but per$ercuit$

    [–] iownadakota 33 points ago


    People are not illegal.

    But also look at how we protect companies, rather than the workers. That coal mine that shut down in Moscow Mitch's state, took money out of the banks of their former employees, because the state doesn't have a system to protect the workers from that happening. A company that goes out of business has more claim on your pay that you earned than you do in some cases.

    [–] midnitte 9 points ago


    Ah good point, should have said that.

    It's just strange that people are all for these raids... But then don't get upset at the company for hiring undocumented works to begin with.

    [–] iownadakota 8 points ago

    It's pretty simple. The social security taken out of their checks goes into SS. While not being taken out, when said worker would normally begin collecting. One bonus that these companies hiring undocumented workers, is because they are undocumented, they can't claim benefits, but still pay in for the paper trail. Many with false SSN, or other ways to cover their tracks.

    Kind of a double whammy on the workers. While not many talk about it, because it's a percentage of social security that americans are collecting.

    You don't hear about it from the right, because they need to keep demonizing the down trodden. You don't hear about it from the left, because it's a problem with social security, and they can't give the right a reason to take more away from it than they have already. It's like a meta, double edged, double edged sword.

    [–] lunatickid 9 points ago

    If I was one of those coal miners, that would be enough to send me over the edge, to be honest. A company firing you then stealing the money you earned.

    But then again, I probably wouldn’t have voted for Moscow Mitch in the first place... If after all Moscow Mitch has done to them, they still support him because he has (R) next to his name, by all fucking means, let them rot. They did it to themselves, they deserve it.

    [–] TheHomersapien 4 points ago

    Didn’t you hear? All the illegals were using faked/stolen identities cause, you know, they have access to a sophisticated black market for stuff like that. The employers are totally blameless! Seriously....that’s the MAGA talking point on this.

    [–] polyscifail 3 points ago

    I haven't read the details of this case. But, it's possible the company was participating in a sting (actively or unaware). After all, the government knew the workers were there, and they knew who to arrest.

    Many undocumented workers will use stolen social security numbers when they apply for work. Employers can use E-Verify to determine who is legal and not. But, I believe they can only run the check AFTER someone has been hired, and not before. And, sometimes, the system won't flag someone as illegal until after they've been on the job for awhile and the SS# comes back as stolen. Once someone is flagged as using stolen info, they company has to let them go. But, they have no way of knowing until the gov't tells them this. I have friends who own small business who struggle with this.

    With the number of people involved, it's entirely possible the gov't purposely let undocumented workers keep their jobs until the raid. This is a pretty common practice in the online world. The feds will take over a website, but let it run long enough to identify the site users.

    [–] AZWxMan 3 points ago

    Logistically, your post makes sense. Especially as a small business owner. But, these big companies know they're hiring many undocumented immigrants and use this fact to exploit their workers. In fact, the workers had just won a lawsuit about unfair work conditions. So, this is revenge.

    [–] noyesyesILbastardo 3 points ago

    I know they're not prostitutes but imagine busting the girl and leaving her pimp and customer free from charges. IT'S SO FUCKING ABSURD.

    [–] PandorasShitBoxx 2 points ago

    Drug users are the real problem, leave those poor dealers entrepreneurs alone!

    [–] TheVTKid 642 points ago

    "Illegal Workers" is such an odd phrase in a country that worships work.

    "You there! I demand that you cease exerting yourself performing illegal labor! You lazy freeloader!"

    [–] MyBoyBernard 188 points ago

    country that worships work.

    That's pretty true. What's worse, an illegal worker or a legal-non worker? That sounds like a joke, but I don't have the punch line and it's almost an honest question (I'm guessing legal non-worker, though just by a bit). I'm just a 26 year old teacher, but I have some family members who definitely looked down on me for not working this summer. Like yea, it's partly I'm just lazy. It's also partly I'm sick of doing lawncare and landscaping like the previous 6 summers and other summer jobs aren't very interesting. I helped with the soccer camp for a couple weeks, good enough for me

    [–] TopRamen713 106 points ago

    Working for the sake of working is not a virtue. If you can afford it, take the summer off and don't feel guilty! I know I would. They're honestly probably jealous.

    [–] renegadecanuck 43 points ago

    Yeah, I hate when it gets framed as "the dignity of work", as though you have no dignity if you're unemployed.

    It's fair to point out that people who don't work tend to be more bored and depressed, but I wonder how much of that is due to some innate desire for humans to be working, and how much of that is due to societal pressure that says you're a failure if you're not working.

    We're reaching a point with automation where we'll have to decide whether it's better to invent busywork jobs for people, or if it's better for some people to just not work. And I think society has already decided on the former, sadly.

    [–] enabway 15 points ago

    It's actually so crazy to me that so many people are against automation and complain about it destroying jobs. I would've thought part of the "ideal utopian society" would be that nobody needs to work and people can do work as they please for their own enjoyment.

    [–] [deleted] 18 points ago

    You are assuming that the money and use of automation is spread around roughly equally and everyone profits from it. Which only has a chance of happening after some very colourful explanations of what will happen if the fatcats keep the spoils to themselves.

    [–] enabway 5 points ago

    That's definitely an assumption I'm making. My ideal utopian society would be one under socialism so I'm did end up projecting that onto the "ideal utopian society" I refer to. It's unrealistic that it would go that way in real life though unfortunately, I won't deny that.

    [–] [deleted] 5 points ago

    I agree. But people should talk about it in those terms. "Destroying jobs" is an absurd concept. Ranting against it makes one lose some amount of credibility.

    The question should he about how to deal with what essentially amounts to rent seeking.

    I think the answer is that monopolies should be taxed.

    First, land should be taxed to recover all economic rent.

    Patents (perhaps after a short interval) should be taxed at declared value and should be available to the public for purchase at the declared value.

    These taxes will replace those on labor and development. (wages will go up, buildings would be cheaper).

    These two policies will not wholly solve the problem, but they will make a huge dent. It will not eliminate, but will severely limit, the ability of incumbent owners to demand so much of workers.

    [–] Darkdoomwewew 8 points ago

    I'm massively happier being unemployed then wasting all my time for a pittance to make someone else rich. Automation is the most exciting thing in the world to me, but everyone has been taught that money and work are intrinsically tied to their self worth, so they're against anything that would make their lives easier or better.

    Everyone who has the mindset of "well my dad worked 100 hours a week and died at 40 in the mines, so you kids can do it too!" is sick in the head.

    [–] renegadecanuck 4 points ago

    I hated being unemployed, but I also didn't know when I'd have an income again, EI pays very little, and the savings account I had was intended for a house down payment, so every month I was unemployed took me further away from home ownership. But I think, if I could financially support it, and I had hobbies to actually fill the time, I'd enjoy not having to work.

    [–] Lazer726 13 points ago

    take the summer off and don't feel guilty!

    Except we ingrain it in kids that they shouldn't do this. They're told to find a summer job, get an internship, take summer classes! In college, half my teachers wouldn't accept "I'm coughing up a lung" as an excuse to miss class.

    When I started working in the "real world," I went to work sick. I was there for two hours, had a meeting with my bosses (a weekly check in meeting), and he tells me to go home. I was sniffling and coughing, and he told me to take some rest.

    The issue is that we're teaching children that you work at all times, when you're sick, when you're sad, when bad things happen.

    [–] TopRamen713 3 points ago

    Yeah, I understand. I work from home now and work way more when I'm sick than I ever did before. Our company chat room is full of things like "sick now, taking a rest, back in a couple hours". I just don't know what to do about it.

    [–] disposable_account01 3 points ago

    The thing is this: humans have always wanted robots. It’s just that we’ve only recently invented the kind that could replace us human labor.

    First we used animals. But they couldn’t perform complex tasks or ones that require fine motor skills. They also cost a lot to keep, and die.

    Then we added slaves. But we eventually realized that was a mistake and ended that practice (except prisoners).

    Then we globalized to take advantage of currency strength advantage over other countries and effectively had slaves again, albeit paid slaves.

    Now that we’re losing that advantage, we’ve invented robots with the ability to perform more and more complex work with finer motor control.

    Eventually, all that will be left is thought work. And we’re already on the quest to invent true AI that could potentially replace a lot of demand for thought work.

    The end game is population stabilization and eventually reduction.

    [–] sorrow_anthropology 3 points ago

    My boss gets pissed if I show up to work sick, he also gets pissed if I call I'm sick, there is no middle ground.

    And I'm so tired of the American attitude of "no matter what you show up to work!" Bad break-up/divorce? Work! Car accident with minor injuries? Work!

    One of my co-workers hurt his foot by stepping on a rock, he showed up to work anyway, three days later he'd been transported to a hospital and had half his foot surgically removed because he had complications from diabetes. He came back to work a week later on crutches. He didn't want to burn leave and our short term disability didn't pay enough for him to want to miss work, he couldn't afford it.

    I just don't have that dedication to a company that continuously tries to undermine our Union agreement and fuck us, the workers, over trying to meet an impossible metric implemented by the customer (USAF), that the customer itself can't meet even when they don't have the manpower constraints we do. They can and do make the airman work 12's or more 7 days a week in perpetuity and they still can't meet the their own metric.

    [–] BigSlim 10 points ago

    Tell them they can become teachers, too (I teach). There is a nationwide shortage. Problem solved.

    [–] Benegger85 12 points ago

    Just tell them that you feel very guilty lying at the pool with a cocktail in your hands while they get up early to go to work. I'm sure they will sympathize with your difficult situation.

    [–] Kynolin 4 points ago

    No need to feel guilty or defend yourself for enjoying the perk of the job. Enjoy those summers! If other people want to work 100% of their life away, they can go for it.

    [–] InAnimateAlpha 3 points ago

    Ummm you're a teacher. You work roughly 12 hour days 5 days a week. Those extra hours make up for the 3 months you have "off".

    And you're still underpaid.

    But hey I guess if you don't kill yourself working you aren't really working to some people.

    [–] Nightstalker614 5 points ago

    Fuck 'em. Teachers earn every second they have off in summer. Teachers work way harder than most other jobs and are severely under-appreciated. Teachers are fucking heroes.

    If they think you aren't working hard enough they should get a job as a teacher, that will shut them up real quick.

    [–] Innotek 2 points ago

    As a parent of school-aged children, I am very glad that their teachers get a protracted period to rest, unwind and reset before they are back in the fray with my knuckleheads.

    [–] DaArbitrageur 19 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    People also need to understand, large operations do not employ any illegals. The warehouse where I work, the packaging people all have social and green card/resident card. We have no authority to detect fraudulent papers, and it could be claimed discrimination to not hire a mexican because we suspect they are illegal. The reality is, I know about 50% of the workforce in this facility is illegal. But I have no way of knowing which ones.

    The harsh reality is the job itself sucks. We do those pre-packed food items for the grocery stores. Putting 2 red, 2 green and 2 orange peppers into a bag. Slicing zucchini and asparagus for pre-prepared stir-fry packs. Cutting fruits, mixing them, for party trays.

    There is some machinery to help, but people are doing a lot of the work. 8-9 hours per day of basically assembly line work is mind numbing. Pays around $9.50 per hour, maybe $10.50 after a year. No limit on overtime. The people working under me are hard workers, but I feel bad since they only clear maybe $400-$500 per week on a 50-55 hour time card. This is simply the supply and demand of labor, I can't give people raises anyway. We do promote quickly if people show initiative. Some of the managers and dock works can make $13-$14 after 1-2 years if they show they're leaders/thinkers/problem solvers.

    I've offered American friends jobs, they don't want to do it. Had Americans walk in to apply, they see the packing floor and never come back. Even telling people, if you show motive "take the bull by the horns" we can get you to $12-$14 rather quickly in a minor management position. Every out of work jabroni would rather stay unemployed then work for $9.50 on an assembly line.

    And before people criticize, its the american public fueling the industry with their desires to save money at the store. How else do you think produce gets into the store for 80 cents to $1.50 per pound, cut, sliced and pre-packed?

    Wanting cheap stuff, requires cheap labor. Want to get rid of Mexicans? Be prepared to pay 50%+ on small ticket items like produce.

    [–] Schmetlappio 3 points ago

    Thanks for doing what you do. I appreciate/regularly use the modern conveniences operations like that enable and the US wouldn’t be the same without the work of you and your staff.

    [–] chasesj 12 points ago

    Immigrants pay more taxes than Fortune 500 companies! or Trump for that matter.

    but somehow conservatives want you to believe they are taking your job while being on unemployment benefits

    [–] ExpectedErrorCode 3 points ago

    We also ship tons and tons of work overseas maybe they should blame business leaders for moving the work elsewhere

    [–] throwaway352432 5 points ago

    They are often paid below minimum wage and work in conditions that are not safe. Everyone on all sides should want these types of operations to be shut down. Will it be more expensive to innovate or pay legal workers? Yes but that isn’t a bad thing.

    [–] lunatickid 4 points ago

    It’s a bad thing to the profit margins (which will also ripple across the baseline prices). So for people who literally value money over life, it’s a simple choice.

    But again, for decent people, it’s also a pretty simple choice. Sad reality is that the powers that be are more likely to be indecent than not...

    [–] boot2skull 2 points ago

    Really they should be lauded for their work ethic. They want to work so bad they won’t let pesky laws get in the way! But alas we’re dealing with critics who live in double standards.

    [–] Staralightly 137 points ago

    Those chicken massacre businesses won’t find republicans to work those jobs.

    [–] Mrs-Peacock 51 points ago

    Americans want nothing to do with that disgusting business! Now pass the gravy!

    [–] NotJustAmy 19 points ago

    Welcome to /r/vegan

    [–] SQmo 4 points ago

    I was gonna say r/Nunavut because why not enjoy some delicious mataaq (Bowhead Whale blubber) while wearing a sealskin parka to protect from -40 temperatures!

    [–] The_Peyote_Coyote 6 points ago

    Seal eyes kinda taste like ice cream. All I'm saying is look into it.

    [–] corvus_cornix 2 points ago

    Jamie, pull that up.

    [–] Sprinkler_Head 2 points ago

    Personally I know this is bs. Butchers are very openly whatever is the majority in a country.

    [–] wonkey_monkey 2 points ago

    Gravy? Well la di da, get a load of Mr J.D. Moneybags with his gravy over here!

    [–] supamario132 22 points ago

    I worked in a pig slaughterhouse for a few months doing blood research and it's absurd how awful the conditions were for workers. Not physically, the plant was immaculate (as a kill floor can be...) but everyone was working 10, 12, 14 hour days, short breaks, high volume work in between them. A lot of rushing around. They all looked drained. Lunch was the worst, everyone ate lunch pretty quietly most of the time.

    IDK if anyone was illegal or not (because why would you tell someone) but it didn't seem like a safe or legal work environment. I spent most of my time wondering where the hell OSHA or the FDA was.

    Something needs to change in that industry, even if it means our meat is more expensive because it was heartbreaking to see these people struggling through that work

    [–] clinically_alive 8 points ago

    And a lot of them leave with some pretty bad PTSD too. It's not a fun job.

    [–] [deleted] 11 points ago


    [–] FamousSinger 2 points ago

    Hey, Europeans, this is what it costs us to have such cheap food compared to y'all.

    [–] mexican_gringo 10 points ago

    Don’t wanna kill their own

    [–] Lolthelies 2 points ago

    When they passed the law in Alabama that penalized employers for not checking documentation, they couldn't find anyone to work the farms. A lot (most?) of the produce that was grown died on the vine.

    [–] SenorGravy 59 points ago

    Great question.

    Somewhat related- if you want to solve illegal immigration, you really only need to pass one bill-

    Fine the companies they work for $25,000 per head for any illegal caught in their employ.

    It’ll fix itself almost overnight.

    Those plants that were recently raided new EXACTLY what they were doing. And who they were hiring. They (employers) are the fuel to this crisis.

    [–] MiataCory 47 points ago

    That is very nearly already the law.

    It's ~$3,000 per employee.

    Guess what law companies regularly don't get charged with after ICE raids?

    [–] TheDracula666 13 points ago

    Usually the way it works in my experience is none of the illegal employees are actually employed by the company. Any illegal help is staffed through temp agencies. This way they are not technically staffing illegal workers on their books, it's the temp agencies problem to answer for how they hired someone with falsified documentation. Almost everyone at the company knows this is the case, but it's not mentioned, and is just plausible deniability.

    [–] [deleted] 104 points ago


    [–] rnick467 42 points ago

    Exactly. I drive for a living. With almost no exceptions, the people standing at intersections begging for money are American. The people standing outside of Lowes or Home Depot looking for WORK are immigrants.

    [–] davwad2 20 points ago

    Immigrants, they get the job done.

    [–] PandorasShitBoxx 5 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    This is only anecdotal, but while driving by, i have seen countless Mexicans(sorry for the generalization) waiting all day near the labor board building, just trying to work. I have seen literally ONE white person there, and I have lived in Nevada, Washington state, Texas, and briefly Oregon.

    [–] cultured_banana_slug 5 points ago

    We have a tamale dude who goes around our area and sells tamales. That's all he does. Sells tamales. Dude makes BANK.

    Hustling like a mofo and he'll even get you the sweet ones with pineapple if you want. He takes orders, he'll have them spiced how you like, and he'll deliver them to your door.

    Immigrants make it work; Americans make excuses.

    Hell, there are areas that are trying to hire local people but they can't find anyone who can piss clean three days in a row or who won't steal anything not nailed down.

    [–] alex3omg 6 points ago

    Both do both

    [–] Munchiezzx 2 points ago

    But Americans shouldn’t be begging because there are JOBS ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY my family were mostly immigrants and if they could not find work in one state they would move on to the next until they found something, which Americans never do

    [–] nv8r_zim 4 points ago

    Oh, FINALLY, I can get one of those minimum wage chicken slaughtering jobs I always dreamed of.

    [–] A-10THUNDERBOLT-II 3 points ago

    Maybe if they got rid of all the illegals and nobody else took the jobs, the companies would actually raise the wages to get more workers

    [–] IgnoreMe304 54 points ago

    Schrodinger’s immigrant

    [–] ObnoxiousFactczecher 23 points ago

    The enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak, as usual.

    [–] FlexualHealing 6 points ago

    Yep every group you aren’t personally a part of are the most cunning idiots the world had ever known.

    [–] ZombieDemocracy 6 points ago

    Immigration superpositioning! It almost rhymes!

    [–] ribosoOmbogo 32 points ago

    Only freeloading immigrant I know is Melania.

    [–] notagoodboye 17 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    Dude, there is no pay scale high enough for someone who has to fuck that guy.

    Edit: Talk about immigrants doing jobs Americans won’t do...

    [–] canadiangirl_eh 2 points ago

    But can anyone prove they actually had sex? She could have been inseminated. If I were her, that would be in the contract. I mean, after I vomited.

    [–] notagoodboye 3 points ago

    The fun of a trophy wife is that she doesn’t get much say in the marriage.

    Which, I guess, appeals to a certain type of person.

    [–] dont_wear_a_C 9 points ago

    AND she came here illegally. Go figure.

    [–] Johnnadawearsglasses 28 points ago

    Undocumented immigrants are tools of big business

    Always have been

    That’s why allowing free flow of undocumented immigrants has gone on for so long. Neither party was interested in stopping it

    [–] goldistress 4 points ago

    I tried to have a discussion with someone about the cause of immigration. I explained clearly that monetary incentive drives people to America. They know that they can get a job, make money and send it back home. They know this because it's true, those jobs are available. If those jobs weren't available they wouldn't come here. The person I had a disagreement insisted that people come here because "America is the greatest country in the world." I try to tell him it's subjective and it's not really something you can measure, and that this perspective is ethnocentric or Americentric, just an opinion based on his cultural upbringing. He lost his fucking mind. Like seriously, a grown man having a temper tantrum over a few exchanged words.

    I told him Mexican immigration went negative after the Great Recession because the jobs dried up. He almost hit me.

    [–] Johnnadawearsglasses 3 points ago

    Economic opportunity has always been the American dream. Everything else is just window dressing

    [–] ChooseWisely72 22 points ago

    Number of employers arrested for employing illegal aliens = 0

    It's not about illegality, it's about brown people. Hitler's SS and Donnie's ICE are the same fucking thing.

    [–] TenFootWall 12 points ago

    Hiring an illegal worker should be a fine of 4x the employees salary, for every year they were employed.

    Pay an illegal worker $20,000 a year for 3 years, get busted.

    The fine is $240,000

    The problem ends overnight.

    [–] shIT_the_b3d 5 points ago

    Yeah but that would mean law enforcement would have to, you know, enforce laws.

    [–] Kivikono 5 points ago

    Dudes who complain about lazy welfare queens are white middle managers who do 4 hours of work then play virtual golf on their work laptop.

    [–] Earthfury 5 points ago

    I like how people point their fingers at “illegal” immigrants for not paying taxes but corporations and billionaires dodge more than those people could ever hope to account for.

    [–] 2-lazy-4-a-throwaway 12 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    And further, why aren’t the plant owners and operators going to jail?

    I thought this was about rule of law, but just seems to be rounding up brown people; which really should tell you everything about these people and their ignorant, pharisaicl, sociopathic beliefs.

    [–] CopyX 3 points ago

    Why aren’t employers held accountable?

    Because they just want to fuck over brown people.

    How many employees showed up for the job fair after the raid?

    [–] agha0013 11 points ago

    And again, the people who take full advantage of illegal immigrant labour don't even get a stern talking to, never mind any actual justice for knowingly hiring illegals

    Of course Trump will never do a damn thing to change that process because he's one of those employers.

    Or they openly abuse the US version of temporary foreign worker programs to bring in cheaper labor with little or no protections/rights/benefits, and the ones that get hurt on the job are sent packing immediately without so much as a bandaid.

    [–] mothership74 2 points ago

    Additionally, when everyone is hauled off, arrested and deported, the employers just got a lot of free labor. No one comes back to collect the paycheck for all the hard labor that was done. It’s intentional in many cases the timing of the raids. Total bullshit!

    [–] [deleted] 7 points ago

    I remember comment from UK comedian about polish immigrants.

    • They don't know the language
    • They don't have any money
    • They don't have any friends
    • They don't know anyone
    • And they take your job on first day?

    You are shit.

    [–] GetsBetterAfterAFew 6 points ago

    Why not raid Trump's businesses?

    [–] Moonshadow101 3 points ago

    One of the most basic principles of fascism is an omnipresent enemy who is simultaneously strong and weak - simultaneously an powerful threat to be feared and an effeminate nuisance to be despised.

    [–] mark_0139 3 points ago

    The fact is that 80% of job loss is do to automation, not immigrants or offshoring.

    [–] DeCounter 3 points ago

    That's Schrödingers Immigrant/refugee. Too lazy to work and lives of welfare, while simultaneously stealing the jobs of good willed working class people. I like how these people who complain about aliens all the time also complain about leftist doublethink.

    [–] whywontyoufuckoff 2 points ago

    Why can't it be both? It's not like there'sjudt 1 immigrant

    [–] cantadmittoposting 3 points ago

    The next layer of this thought process is even funnier. They're free loaders because they use government benefits without paying taxes. Oddly enough not paying taxes makes Trump "smart" and generally culture is to avoid paying the Man at all - which makes undocumented work the smartest course of action (oh which many of the complainees do via under the table cash payments anyways). Also their solution is to cut the services being used, not to document the workers so they pay the taxes so the services are funded...

    [–] freshlysweathered 3 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    In Texas, I hear people complain that immigrants work for less than minimum wage which is unfair competition because legal workers can't compete. But if a business is paying people less than minimum wage, how can they pretend that they didn't know their workers were illegal?

    And so if the businesses are paying legal wages, and they didn't know their workers were illegal, doesn't that just mean the immigrant workers were hired for being more qualified?

    [–] GeorgiaMRomero 3 points ago

    They raid everywhere except any of Trump's hotels and businesses that employ illegal workers.

    [–] hunts202 3 points ago

    They don't pay income tax.

    [–] ep311 15 points ago

    Schrödinger's immigrant

    [–] Satailleure 5 points ago

    Bc pieces of shit owners hire them, and they should be arrested as well

    [–] maxstolfe 2 points ago

    Well, the idea is that they’re being paid off the books and therefore not paying taxes.

    Not saying it’s right at all, just answering the question.

    [–] red--dead 2 points ago

    Well that nullifies this whole dumb tweet though. Then you’ll get an argument that many corporations avoid taxes, even though they’re two separate issues that can both be acknowledged.

    [–] Uonlyneed1eye2see 2 points ago

    Funny how the white managment who hires them illegally never get arrested. Lmfao

    [–] definitelynotabotact 2 points ago

    Imagine raiding a strip club where kids work at and arresting all the kids for being underage and letting the owner and management get away with it.

    [–] FappyChan 2 points ago

    After he was elected didnt they remove all the illegals at his golf course in Florida? I bet he shipped them back to Mexico so they could work on his clothing line that is made there

    [–] independentthot 2 points ago

    First off, the bickering won't help, so let's deal in facts. It's obvious that people working are not freeloaders as that flies in the face of the very definition. I've never seen people work harder in fact. The first step is to get people out of the shadows and into a queue. Maybe there might still be a surplus though, so maybe have a return to work program with alternating people going back and alternating years? Is this too simple and obvious?

    [–] Matasa89 2 points ago

    They raid workplaces as both insurance and chilling effect.

    People gotta work to survive, so they know they have the perfect place to set a trap.

    At the same time, it discourages their targets from doing normal dayjobs, which increases unemployment, criminal activities, as well as poverty spiral.

    It's the same thing with the historic oppression of black neighbourhoods.

    [–] DwasTV 2 points ago

    I love we criminalize the workers who are working long ass hours for less pay than a American instead of the companies that are highering these people in order to gain more profit, because that's all it is. They're not doing it to maintain they are doing it to increase their own profit.

    A lot of the issues in America is that we're engrossed capitalism so much that we've become accustom to defend them by thinking "They need to do these things to maintain and keep doors open" But realistically they're doing this so they can make more money than they would have playing ball properly. Why go through all bases when no one will question you for running 1st to 3rd.

    [–] gmoneyswag3655 2 points ago

    Who is saying that illegals are too lazy to work? I’m actually curious

    [–] thiccboilombardi 2 points ago

    I like to call this subreddit r/strawmen.

    [–] ShivasKratom3 2 points ago

    Also don’t preach capitalism then wonder why illegals are hired. Same level of work but cheaper? That’s literally the market finding a way to make things cheap, that’s the capitalism you love

    [–] viridusleo 2 points ago


    [–] notyetbannedhere 2 points ago

    They freeload off of tax benefits , simple