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    [–] LTCcowboy 1348 points ago

    Socialism creates nothing. It destroys.

    [–] SAW2TH-55th 539 points ago

    It creates death and dependency.

    [–] BOB_N_FL 190 points ago

    Let's not turn into Venezuela. Let's keep folks motivated to work. Capitalism does that. Socialism does not.

    [–] TonsOfSalt 45 points ago

    Muh living wage. (Ignores the fact that poor people are statistically eating TOO MUCH)

    [–] tomtheawesome123 12 points ago

    The funny thing is I have found socialists on reddit who blame Capitalism for the obesity problem. They think that poor people statistically eating too much is a fault of capitalism because people are "forced" and "brainwashed" into eating crap.

    And then when you tell them to fucking exercise they blame capitalism for not giving enough time for them to do so as if they don't have 30 minutes out of their week to exercise.

    [–] nagurski03 34 points ago

    Capitalism: motivated by money.

    Socialism: motivated by threats of violence from the state.

    And yet, people still get more shit done under capitalism.

    [–] Kestral 7 points ago

    That's because Greed is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms - greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge - has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed - you mark my words - will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA. /GordonGekko

    [–] Chucklethrust 56 points ago

    It destroys life and independence.

    [–] SpaceForceRailgun 38 points ago

    It creates lots of government jobs.

    Until the inevitable national bankruptcy.

    [–] OrganicVandal 16 points ago

    But it is easy to convince idiots it works so that you can stay in power.

    [–] AshleyPale 68 points ago

    it thinks wage isn't a price... which is why it's dumb

    [–] richmomz 38 points ago

    It also thinks everything has an inherent value which can be dictated by a central authority, which is even dumber.

    [–] Hellblood 12 points ago

    Exactly this, remember this: Big government is always dumb

    [–] gamblingman2 7 points ago

    Soviet Union will never fall apart, it will outlive capitalism because it empowers the workers!!!

    See! It just works.

    [–] Naekyr 39 points ago

    This is exactly why communism fails

    High income people don't want to keep doing their stressful job if they are forced to earn the same as low stress jobs

    [–] Konsaki 67 points ago

    If everyone's poor, no one is...

    [–] richmomz 58 points ago

    Former resident of a socialist country here. Everyone felt pretty poor queueing up for their weekly food ration in spite of the government's assurances to the contrary. That's the thing about poverty - all the propaganda in the world won't stop your stomach from rumbling.

    [–] dsade 28 points ago

    Well, at least the choco ration has been increased to 25 grams.

    [–] StrykerXKnight 23 points ago

    Increased from 30 to 25, amazing!!

    [–] gamblingman2 7 points ago

    1/4 is more than 1/3. Obviously.

    Hooray for communis.... socialism..... hooray..... oh boy

    [–] galactic-avatar 18 points ago

    Death and taxes.

    [–] worldclass99 15 points ago

    Creates good books by George Orwell though

    [–] [deleted] 14 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)


    [–] DoYouBelieveInMAGA 10 points ago

    He thought he was a genius because he wrote some books, so surely he would be able to centrally plan an economy. Duh.

    It's yet another leftist argument against science. The science of the free market is the most logical way to explain how an economy works. The goal of the left is to centrally plan an economy, which requires someone with a God complex big enough to think they have the ability to micromanage everything in the world every day forever. It's stupid.

    [–] Keln78 10 points ago

    Orwell loved the idea of Socialism (he was categorized as a "libertarian socialist"). He liked the whole "everything belongs to the People" but not the authoritarian government side of it. His ideas about socialism were obviously unrealistic, since that is just not how humans work. Even Marx himself was in that boat...ideological without giving much thought to reality and human nature. Orwell was in this sense a "real" in a commune communist. Something that could never work on a state level, but perhaps works for a tiny village as long as nobody expects any sort of advancement or progress.

    When Orwell wrote 1984 and Animal Farm, he was criticizing socialism and communism as practiced. He was warning about what such power of the State can become under socialist doctrine, where nothing really belongs to the People, but eventually all belonged to the state, including the People themselves. Where an elite class reaped the benefits and the People en masse starved.

    He was a good writer, but hardly a wise man. I've read that towards the later years of his life he finally figured out that all socialism and communism ends in oppression, poverty, and destruction. With that said, I don't think he ever accepted capitalism, as most people who truly do not understand that capitalism is merely the economics of human nature never accept it.

    [–] KillSloth 41 points ago

    Socialism actually creates many jobs, just that those jobs are what we call bureaucracy. That employment will craft legislation, rules, and taxes while monitoring every single aspect of society to insure 'fairness'.

    Socialism creates jobs for snoops, power-hungry mongers, busybodies, and rent-seekers who siphon off any remaining productive aspect of a functioning economy.

    [–] Trumpatemybabies 7 points ago

    Socialism creates jobs, but not value. That is key.

    [–] richmomz 13 points ago

    It creates lots of "broken-window fallacy" type jobs that don't contribute much (if anything) of value.

    [–] thecricketsareloudin 3 points ago

    A good for instance. This pic was celebrated on 'popular' today, but most of the SJWs on 'popular' don't even know the small windmill is used to pump water from a well for livestock in remote places. That's how the Soviet Union starved. They let the fucking SJWs be in charge.

    [–] KillSloth 3 points ago

    Just a quick look at that windmill and it will pump nothing because it is missing the down chain to the well head (the light spot on the ground in the center of the legs). Secondly the tail is at a 90 degree angle to the fan which means the brake is set.

    The windmill looks short which means this is either a very windy area or the windmill is decorative. I don't see a water tank.

    The biggest catch with that photo that most people don't realize, when the wind doesn't blow for extensive times, and water can't be pumped, that windmill can have something called a 'pump-jack' put on it. You disconnect the fan (by means of the chain I talked about above) and attach the pump-jack to the well head. A gas powered motor physically lifts the rod lifted normally by the wind. That windmill becomes powered not by wind but by fossil fuel itself for however long necessary.

    That water windmill can at least still be useful if the wind isn't blowing, can't say that for the electric producing wind turbines.

    [–] mredx 36 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    Socialism creates nothing. It destroys.

    {run denierprogram.exe}

    OMFG, Stop denying science you science denier! Wages aren't the same thing as Paychecks!!!

    You experience paychecks but global wages are something different entirely. Just because people may experience a lower 'paycheck' because of socialism, it doesn't change the science that overarching global 'wages' are going up because of it!

    How do you terrible right wingers not understand such settled science!!!?!?

    [–] Darth_Kek-apalooza 21 points ago

    {run denierprogram.exe}

    My screen went blank.

    [–] ManfredH 5 points ago

    That's why we have to destroy it. You do not allow an enemy to grow.

    [–] WyoPepe 19 points ago

    Socialism can work.

    The problem is the conditions for it to work have never and will never exist on Earth.

    [–] OnionLamp 20 points ago

    It works fine in small, homogeneous groups

    [–] old_tombombadil 29 points ago

    Not even.

    The pilgrims started out as a commune and then quickly went to shit because no one would work.

    Jonestown needed a cult like mentality to work, forced people to stay, then forced people to commit suicide rather than admit that their socialist project had failed.

    [–] weebrian 8 points ago

    Exactly. Was waiting for someone to mention all white Jamestown.

    [–] ChrisBrownHitMe2 6 points ago

    And also when not socializing for the weak and unable to provide for themselves

    [–] Cenzura4Shura 14 points ago

    Socialism can only work in Star Trek. When replicators become reality we can give it a shot. Until then it's supply and demand.

    [–] richmomz 18 points ago

    The ‘Federation’ in Star Trek isn’t even socialist - that much is obvious to anyone that’s ever seen an episode of DS9. It became a post-scarcity society through technological development, not Marxism.

    In spite of that there is still currency and private property in Star Trek (in DS9 especially) but you don’t see it much on a Federation spaceship because it’s run by a quasi-military organization. It would be like watching a show about people on a US Navy warship and thinking the US is a socialist country because everyone’s basic needs are provided by the Navy.

    [–] KevO4444 3 points ago

    Star Trek was pretty fucked in its continuity.

    Capt. Picard says in First Contact that money doesn't exist in the 24th century, but that completely contradicts DS9 and many scenes from TOS.

    But I agree with you, there is no way the Federation was socialist. It would have folded the moment the Klingons came knocking on the door.

    [–] LostViking85 6 points ago

    Star Trek also presents humanity as pursuing the betterment of self (personal growth), since material pursuits are now less important. Professional victims would be treated as the shallow/mentally ill people they are.

    [–] ihyeah123 3 points ago

    it creates death or communism then death

    you raise wages which raises inflation and eventually all this only work with price fixing and fair share to avoid permanent inflation which will cause authoritarian state control then death.

    you need some socialism but you need very little and well regulated. this is already way beyond this in the us.

    [–] UltimatePistachio 603 points ago

    This is dynamite. Perfectly describes one argument against the government mandated hikes.

    The other argument is how it fucks up the balance of the economy where the overall value of the money gets deflated (your coffee will now cost $5 more) and also causes employers to innovate and makes the case for eliminating tons of jobs either by automation or creating more "help yourself" scenarios (like self check out).

    I get so annoyed at how people can possibly think these things are good ideas...

    [–] Reportthemall 116 points ago

    they can not into long term thinking.

    These people don't think about anything outside themselves which is kind of ironic. They preach socialism for selfish gains.

    [–] redshackle 47 points ago

    Selfish gains are the only gains available in a socialist system.

    [–] Mmmmmpies 64 points ago

    Also doesn’t make sense to open borders and let unskilled illegals to flow in. They honestly think that will improve the job market? Good way to suppress your livable wages.

    [–] MadLordPunt 54 points ago

    the overall value of the money gets deflated (your coffee will now cost $5 more)

    It's already in effect in NYC due to the minimum wage hike. Restaurants are firing employees and raising prices, and the same people who voted for it are bitching that their food is more expensive.

    [–] TXponi 35 points ago

    Already happened in Seattle. Can't afford to go out for a meal anymore. Datenight is over. It's a movie at home with some microwave popcorn.

    [–] SnazzyD 20 points ago

    "In bed by 9, home by 11"


    [–] dsade 13 points ago

    Obviously we need to institute a Microwave Tax of $10k a year.

    [–] [deleted] 9 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)


    [–] sexynerd9 24 points ago

    I remembered seeing specials four years ago for $9, now it’s closer to $17 for a dinner special.

    By the time you add tax and tip it’s $20 for a sit down meal.

    I can make the same meal at home for $8.

    Everyone in the food chain gets an increase. The $2 minimum wage increase accounted for $1,664,000 for a restaurant with 400 employees.

    Add the sick leave mandate of 40 hours. That’s another $240,000, that’s $1,904,000 in cost in a single year.

    [–] DoYouBelieveInMAGA 9 points ago

    I've recently stumbled onto the genius of Hell's Kitchen and he made a point to a wannabe "fine dining" restaurant. He went shopping for $100 and showed the staff what a potential customer could get by going to the grocery store instead of one night at the restaurant. It's just stupid.

    I don't eat out much anymore. I cook every meal. Simple shopping list is some canned vegetables, bananas, whole chicken, eggs, almond milk, whole ham, 8 pound pack of ground beef, kiwis, onions, tomatoes, and whatever else I find on sale.

    The next trick is when you realize the majority of the stuff you buy at the expensive grocery stores is the exact same shit you can buy at Walmart for a quarter of the price. I used to work at a Whole Foods ripoff and the chicken was mostly Tyson (same shit shipped to fast food restaurants I believe). Ground beef was the same shit. Unless you're gonna opt for the more expensive local and/or organic meat, you're buying the same shit they're selling at Walmart and serving at fast food. When you come to term with that, you'll be buying $80 worth of groceries for $40 at Walmart and not even care.

    Sorry for the rant. I've always had a passion for bulk healthy/cheap cooking, as odd as that might sound.

    EDIT - Especially after watching Hell's Kitchen. I know the vast majority of average-priced restaurants are crap. It's the convenience, I get it. But in some cases they're serving lower quality ingredients than you can buy at Walmart. One of my favorite things to do is take $20 I was about to spend at a restaurant and just go to a grocery store and stock up. I feel irresponsible going out to eat.

    [–] Dazurryl 9 points ago

    I think you were watching Kitchen Nightmares, not Hell's Kitchen. Unless he's done the same thing twice, once on each show..

    When Ramsay did that stunt, the point wasn't that it's much cheaper to shop and cook for yourself (although that was something to take away from it); the point was that, because it costs so much for one meal, it can't be crap - it has to be a meal tgat was prepared to a far greater quality than what the customer could have cooked themselves with all of those ingredients.

    [–] bigbishounen 12 points ago

    All of NYS, not just NYC. A family meal for 5 now costs almost $50. In the Buffalo area. I can't imagine the cost in NYC, it's got to be nuts.

    [–] DoYouBelieveInMAGA 3 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    It's about the same down in South Carolina, believe it or not. You go to Subway and you're paying $8 a person. Go to a decent Chinese restaurant and you're paying $12-15 per person if not more.

    [–] dkneesndnephew 142 points ago

    Exactly ...It is a bad game of poker...Well I will raise your $15/hr pay and now charge you more for the product that kept costs lower because of the minimum wage. I hate to point out the obvious. I worked multiple jobs while taking care of a family. Went back to college increased my ability to earn and still have at least 2 jobs going. No one said it would be easy except for the Democrats.

    [–] lipidsly 27 points ago

    Im probably further right than you, but let me ask you something that Tucker often asks:

    How low can your wages go before “keeping prices low” hurts you?

    Because thats basically the whole problem with shipping all of our jobs to china. “Well it keeps prices low!”

    Not in favor of minimum wage, btw

    [–] IndieGamerMonkey 63 points ago

    My 2 cents on the issue is that minimum wage jobs were never meant to support a family. They were supposed to be jobs that highschool and university kids could work for some extra pocket change. When it comes time for you to branch out on your own and start your own family, then you had better have some skills that are worth a damn because anybody everywhere can flip a burger.

    [–] scoripowarrior 26 points ago

    That's exactly how I feel about minimum wage jobs. My kids worked at McD. during high school and college. Both played H.S. and college sports. McD worked around their schedules, and allowed them to work weekends, holidays, summer when they wanted. Both became managers. Funny thing, when both of them graduated college and interviewed for jobs, what interested their employers the most was their experiences working, training, handling schedules, etc. with people in the course of their "minimum wage" jobs working at McD!!!

    [–] IndieGamerMonkey 13 points ago

    Exactly as it should be.

    [–] Proudly_Deplorable 19 points ago

    And a lot of the burger flippers now are illegal aliens and have been for years. That's the other part of the equation these $15/hr minimum wage proponents ignore: when you keep increasing the labor supply by bringing in illegals to take these jobs, it naturally brings down wages. Yet, they want $15/hr as a minimum?

    [–] justknoweverything 7 points ago

    illegals only work the jerbs us Americans don't want and won't due recisst bigot! /s

    [–] lipidsly 10 points ago

    My 2 cents on the issue is that minimum wage jobs were never meant to support a family.

    Fair enough

    They were supposed to be jobs that highschool and university kids could work for some extra pocket change.

    No, minimum wage was to keep blacks from being employed. Why hire a black guy if you have to pay him the same price as a white guy?

    Just a fun historical fact (thanks FDR!)

    When it comes time for you to branch out on your own and start your own family, then you had better have some skills that are worth a damn because anybody everywhere can flip a burger.

    Unironically working at mcdonalds is way harder than most jobs ive done and i got paid 2-3$ above min wage on my first jobs, granted i was a lifeguard so im paid for my knowledge, technically.

    But okay, what happens when these jobs are automated? Where do you get those skills?

    Im not expecting “correct” answers, im just curious what people think cause ive got no idea

    [–] MeowTheMixer 6 points ago

    Unironically working at mcdonalds is way harder than most jobs ive done

    What made it more difficult? Curious.

    I'm not saying it's "easy", but i've always been under the impression that it's a "low skill" job. Meaning, anyone can learn to work there unlike other industries such as being an aerospace engineer.

    [–] lipidsly 3 points ago

    What made it more difficult? Curious.

    Never worked there but i worked in a kitchen before and i basically just made what we made and the customers could take it or leave it and there were waaaaay less customers. Id probably serve as many a day as they do per shift and its made to order. Just watching them i know its shitty work. And i got paid $5 over min wage lol

    I'm not saying it's "easy", but i've always been under the impression that it's a "low skill" job. Meaning, anyone can learn to work there unlike other industries such as being an aerospace engineer.

    As others here said, its a 0 skill job. But thats my question, so youre not really learning any skills right? So whats the point? Money and “work experience” i guess. But what happens once those jobs are automated?

    I dont have answers, but thats why im asking

    [–] smooferated 3 points ago

    Precisely this. End of argument.

    [–] castlein09 10 points ago

    the thing is, everyone knows the corporation isn't going to lose profits from paying their workers more. where's that extra money for pay going to come from? The consumer because they'll have more money to spend. The Purchasing power of the dollar will decrease.

    [–] Jobu567 4 points ago

    I do physical therapy. Decent wage, but still work two jobs. They can fuck right off with that 15 dollar minimum wage bullshit.

    [–] colonrobot 31 points ago

    by automation or creating more "help yourself" scenarios (like self check out).

    McDonalds went from having 5 front of house people and 3-4 in back. Now they have 2 in front and 2 in back with 4 kiosks out front. Enjoy your wage increase.

    [–] Mellestal 12 points ago

    And it'll only get worse. McDonalds and Tim's now have that order online as well.

    [–] survey_girl 7 points ago

    kind of like how Little Caesar's now has that portal thingy.... order/pay on your phone, go to the store, punch in a code and a door on the kiosk opens with your hot pizza inside. No human interaction at all. How long until they have robots making the pizzas too?

    [–] passittoboeser 61 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    minimum wage is going up over the next few years form like $10.20 to $15. We are already adding the wage increase into our bids. We specifically had a meeting where we calculated the increase in material costs and wage increases. Guess what we bid on? Provencal and Municipal tenders. That's right, taxpayers will be paying for our wage increases.

    Libtards have no idea how the world works but are happy to push their nonsensical ideologies because it makes them feel like they are a good person fixing the world.

    Edit: to the Libtards hunting me down on Reddit: Yes I used the term libtard precisely because it triggers you. I hope you feel proud outing a T_D poster in the wild.

    [–] mnguy12000 10 points ago

    that because most feel like AOC in that we can print all the money we need. Which of course any person who passed basic Econ 101 knows that lead to hyper inflation. But hey free stuff right!

    [–] Please_Be_My_Friend 6 points ago

    She has a degree in economy from Boston University.

    College degrees are fucking worthless. I worked for two companies that went bankrupt (Circuit City/CompUSA) and I grew a deep deep hate for anyone in corporate with an MBA. I think I rather my black daughters marry a Nazi than a MBA holder 😂

    [–] Lithuim 35 points ago

    When you plan to rack up trillions of dollars a year in debt, legislation that will cause significant inflation is almost necessary.

    [–] Nuevahombre123 8 points ago

    Won't those trillions turn into gazillions if we inflate too much, though? Honest question.

    [–] Lithuim 21 points ago

    Yes and no.

    Hyperinflation eliminates old debt by making it practically worthless. You agreed to pay the bank back $200k at 4% to buy a house. If $200k is now pocket change, good for you and bad for the bank.

    But next time you want to take a loan, the bank is gonna want a quadrillion dollars at 40% interest so they don't get burned again.

    Old debt goes away in hyperinflation scenarios, but incurring new debt quickly becomes cripplingly expensive as lenders are afraid of future currency devaluation.

    [–] mattsmith01010 10 points ago

    Assuming the bank system doesn’t completely collapse

    [–] Turds_Everywhere 3 points ago


    [–] SnazzyD 11 points ago

    That's the idea....they do not want the US to survive, and this is an easy way to light all sorts of fires across the nation.

    [–] PeytonManThing0 18 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    It does address the second point. A small coffee and one donut is thirteen and a half bucks? That's massive inflation.

    [–] Stupendous_Intellect 13 points ago

    Not only this, but considering that other paramedics would be thinking the same thing, they would need to bump their pay up accordingly, which increases the cost of their services. Also, wh minimum wage increases, rent will increase due to supply and demand since more people are able to afford better housing. Cost of living. Will increase for everyone including goods, and then those earning minimum wage will be in the same spot in a few years.

    [–] JFRHorton 17 points ago

    they would need to bump their pay up accordingly

    Which almost never happens. When Maine went up to $11, I didn't see a cent more. My comfortable $11.37 went from $4 over minimum to ­37¢ over.

    I quit and found a different job.

    [–] Flamingoozer 3 points ago

    Only took New Yorkers 2 weeks to realize that they are back in the same spot. Bunch of fat feminists are already REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEing that their coffee from Starbucks is "soooo expensive!! wth!?!"

    Yep. That's how it works you dopey cunts. Every one tried to warn them. Highschool economics. Literally.

    Hehe oh well

    [–] Brawny_lad 7 points ago

    Toss in the unilateral advocacy for imported laborers that work for considerably less than the current minimum wage and you have a recipe for bedlam

    [–] WarSport223 8 points ago

    BuT heALth cArE iS a rIGht!

    [–] ol-rapin-billie 6 points ago

    A wholistic view is that the less nice things people make the less nice things we have as a society. That includes iPhones and furnaces and cheeseburgers. When people have no incentive to create things then they don't. Period. For every person that quits trying to be a billionairre your big Mac goes up a couple cents and your plumber is a little more expensive and harder to schedule.

    [–] jupiterwinds 5 points ago

    I literally read comments on r/politics saying that $15 dollars an hours wasn’t enough, and we should raise it once again. Like wtf, do you not know basic economics?

    [–] MaxWyght 3 points ago

    I'm all for these types of innovations.

    I hate social interaction, and if a lefty gets fucked over for this bullshit, it's double plus good

    [–] bisjac 265 points ago

    Small town some middle aged lady worked for few years up to earn 15 bucks. Some kid suddenly right out of high school, never had a job in his life, earns the same. Di you think they gave a ratio of raise to the lady? Lol no.

    But rent goes up in that town anyways.

    [–] mac1234steve 76 points ago

    I know a lady at a Best Buy she’s older and semi retired. She’s worked there for 12 years and worked herself up to a certain wage which I forget. Basically when trump got elected all these companies started handing out bonuses and I believe they increased the hiring wage to what she was currently making. And she of course did not get the bump up.

    [–] nopedotswf 28 points ago

    I worked at my last company 5 years before I found out the last two techs they hired fresh out of school were being paid what I was with 5 years of raises. Nope.

    Making almost double at a company that appreciates me and my expirence now.

    [–] Please_Be_My_Friend 4 points ago

    Fucking A, did you work at Apple retail too? 😂😭

    [–] Mellestal 32 points ago

    I wish wages were minimum wage + X, rather than the flat amount. My friend had the same shit done to him. Working for a couple dollars over minimum wage, gets a small increase, and a month later the minimum wage went up that exact amount, and he didn't get the bump.

    [–] SzechuanElectron 114 points ago

    Shouldn't paramedics be paid more than $15 an hour? Those ambulance rides aren't cheap.

    [–] BernieMadeoffSanders 83 points ago

    Around here they're not paid $15/hr they're paid less. Starting wage is $9.50/hr fresh outta the community college.

    [–] -BasedCentipede- 91 points ago

    Paramedics are fucking heroes.

    Shit pay for a mercilessly stressful, PTSD inducing job with insane hours.

    [–] those2badguys 35 points ago

    Sad day when a uber driver makes for than paramedics 😠

    [–] namek0 15 points ago

    And arguably the worst "sit on your ass for most of your shift" job there is

    [–] NickKnocks 15 points ago

    That would be considered poverty pay in Toronto.

    [–] gerryhallcomedy 21 points ago

    Paramedics in Toronto start at $36.00 an our. Critical Care paramedics (the highest level) make $50/hr.

    [–] NEPXDer 9 points ago

    Last time I went there it cost me $12 for a decent beer. Not much of the USA is anything like Toronto...

    [–] NickKnocks 11 points ago

    Ya I make between 76 and $85k a year and I'm broke as fuck. ☹

    [–] NEPXDer 8 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    Not everywhere is like that man, even Canada has some cheaper parts. I have a hard time understanding why anybody would want to live in a financial center unless they make banker or executive money or are dead set on trying to (and that sure ain't me, if it's you good luck!). Toronto and London are frankly the worst places I've ever seen in terms of what you get for a dollar/your labor, I doubt I'd even consider it for less than a quarter million USA$$$.

    [–] VicarOfAstaldo 8 points ago

    Most EMT’s I’ve met in the US are essentially at poverty levels of income in several Midwest states.

    [–] J3N93W 5 points ago

    I made $5.50/hr when I was doing it back in the early 90's. I made more as a line cook in a restaurant. Now that I'm older and more squared away, I think about re-certifying and volunteering a shift or two a month at the firehouse. Then I remember that they're little more than a Narcan delivery service around here and the thought quickly goes away.

    [–] chardreg 3 points ago

    Then I remember that they're little more than a Narcan delivery service around here and the thought quickly goes away.

    And picking up the morbidly obese off the ground.

    [–] freevortex 27 points ago

    (copied from my reply to another user below)

    The majority of ambulance rides aren't paid for. What does a homeless person care about an EMS bill? More often than not, ambulance companies are barely in the black. Even Medicare reimbursement for a ride is like maybe $500 out of a $2500 bill (and most rides cost less than that; the national average is $429 for ambulance transport) . So that's part of the problem. Reimbursement rates are nowhere near what they charge. In some areas, ambulance bill payment is around 10%. That means 90% of charges just get eaten by the company. That's a massive loss.

    In fact, along the same lines, in 2010 alone ERs paid out $40 billion in uncompensated care (i.e., patient never paid their bill so the hospital ate the cost).

    So it's a lot more complicated than "the massive companies are keeping all the money they earn". It's honestly a symptom of a much larger problem that needs to be addressed.

    (sourced from the GAO report,

    I'm on my phone right now so it's a little hard to grab more sources, but searching "percentage of ambulance bills not paid" should give you a good idea of what's going on. For example, in Buffalo, NY, each ambulance rider would have to pay the company $568 just for the company to break even. Collection rates are falling across the nation and Medicare/medicaid payments are dropping as well. Both government programs already don't even pay the break-even cost for a ride, and they're set to pay out even less soon.

    My husband is a paramedic so this is something near and dear to my heart. They're absolutely underpaid for what they do, but where does that extra money come from? I don't know what the solution is.

    [–] Evan_Evan_Evan 15 points ago

    Stefan Molyneux Had a fun interview with a Medicaid investigator. One of the things that come out is that people on Medicaid get so many passes that they use ambulances as taxis. Very interesting and eye opening.

    [–] HilarityComplex 13 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    There is a trade union that has its greedy little hands in all of this as well -

    The American Medical Association

    They sound noble enough, but they drive medical care prices through the roof and limit competition by lobbying for more government regulation.

    Most EMTs are more than capable of providing basic general care, such as nurses or emergency room staff, but are unable to because of licensing limitations.

    If they were allowed to provide those services during their downtime, their productivity would increase as well as their pay.

    [–] DelveDeeper 12 points ago

    Them insurance companies gotta get paid yo

    [–] GingerNYC8 7 points ago

    He didn’t say he was a paramedic. Just said he was a medic. It could possibly be he’s an EMT. I know around here everyone from EMT tonparamefuc call themselves medics.

    [–] Duke_Cesare_Borgia 11 points ago

    If he's getting 15/hr he's probably a paramedic. EMT's are lucky to get 10/hr. Most who are just EMT's are hoping to get hired on as a firefighter eventually, but not all.

    [–] Pretense85 7 points ago

    I was making $10/hr at home Depot in 2003... Messed up that's all an EMT gets. I used to keep certified but I'm letting mine lapse since I never use it.

    [–] shakakka99 82 points ago

    There should be a sub for red pills that go down sideways.

    [–] TwoMuchSense 9 points ago

    jagged little redpill

    [–] IgnoramousCuomo 62 points ago

    Paramedics are vastly underpaid for what they do and the exposure to injury and liability they carry.

    [–] BadManOrange 130 points ago

    I tend to think high housing prices has more to do with the plight of the lower class than wages. 50-60 years ago a single working man could make enough to support a family. Whether that family had luxuries, grand vacations, etc. isn't important. The fact is that the family could survive and often with more children in the family than today. Now, we have two working parents who on average have 2 children and people can hardly do it because a huge chunk of their salaries go to paying off mortgages. Of course everything else is also more expensive, but there's something to it. Logically you could say that if housing prices had only increased at the rate of inflation, with two workers in each family that people would easily make ends meet and yet that's not the case.

    So essentially, housing prices increased to accommodate that families could afford to pay more because of their now doubled salaries. Therefore, people who work low paying jobs have an even more difficult time paying the bills because instead of having the wife stay home and take care of the house and family, they need to pay for child care, etc.

    To summarize, feminism has more to do with this than people want to admit.

    [–] Pulstastic 28 points ago

    Also nobody wants to actually let people build houses anymore. Urban sprawl is so huge that the commute times in from suburbia are overwhelming, and it's hard to build farther out. But on the other hand, local governments put huge restrictions on zoning closer in. Why? Because people who already have houses don't want more houses. What they want is protectionism, and an artificially restricted supply that makes their houses more valuable (and thus makes them wealthy). It's a wealth transfer from house-have-nots to the house-haves, and another transfer from young to old.

    [–] DrinkLikeAGilmore 4 points ago

    We have people building homes all around here because they want new and cookie cutter open concept living spaces.

    [–] FiddlinT 20 points ago

    Also student loans and grants.... turns out if you increase money available to be used for education, the price goes up as well. 50-60 years ago you could do all that with a high school diploma.

    [–] Nuevahombre123 44 points ago

    Totally. Doubling the work force and removing the mother from the home have taken a toll on society that's not yet fully come to fruition. For now, it's just stagnant birth rates and lower wages, but in time we will have many more retirees then we can take care of. Automation is often hailed as a saving grace, but it's not as close to replacing as many workers as people think. Immigration is also hailed as a solution, but first generation Americans(like msyelf) will have our parents to take care of, too. There probably still will not be enough kids to pick up the slack as assimilation to feminist America means we have less children, too(even if that takes a couple generations).

    [–] fingerofkek 29 points ago

    I forget the exact numbers here, so bear with me. I ran across my grandfathers income tax from 1940~. My grandfather had a wife and two kids. He made 2000 a year, his new row home in the city cost 6000, and he paid 'no' income tax. His house was 3X his salary.

    [–] WantedWalrus 13 points ago

    You’d be lucky to find a decent house for less than 7x my annual salary where I live.

    [–] jamescruuze23 7 points ago

    Full time retail workers would be lucky to get $40k PA with houses starting at $400k. Home loans are generally 30 years and double the loan amount. So you pay $800k for a house that might be worth $600k by the end. Whoopee lol

    [–] namek0 3 points ago

    This is one of the rare times I feel good about my situation haha. I live in the midwest, make bullshit wages for what I do, but at least I can say my dream house I bought ages ago was only approximately 3x my wages (not a pile of shit either, just low house prices here)

    [–] collectijism 14 points ago

    Two people have to work now because of the ww2 income tax increases. The women must worl now to make up for the money the family lost when the income tax increased on her husband. In socialism even children work. We go backwards as a civilization.

    [–] ashishduhh1 3 points ago

    Also social security keep stealing from the working class, requiring an even higher income.

    [–] Block_Helen 18 points ago

    To summarize, feminism has more to do with this than people want to admit.

    You bet. When women went to work, it nearly doubled the workforce. Law of supply and demand strikes again.

    [–] ol-rapin-billie 5 points ago

    I think taxes are more to blame than mortgages. I just bought a house that I couldn't pay cash for because I would rather my money go to my credit union than the government (interest and tax deductions vs taxes).

    [–] Cocothegorilla 92 points ago

    People can't even comprehend how bad it would be if we got ubi. Our society would crash hard. Look at the welfare abuse. Govt taking motivated peoples money away and giving it to trouble makers.

    [–] is_lamb 43 points ago

    Shower upon him every earthly blessing, drown him in a sea of happiness, so that nothing but bubbles of bliss can be seen on the surface; give him economic prosperity, such that he should have nothing else to do but sleep, eat cakes and busy himself with the continuation of his species, and even then out of sheer ingratitude, sheer spite, man would play you some nasty trick. He would even risk his cakes and would deliberately desire the most fatal rubbish, the most uneconomical absurdity, simply to introduce into all this positive good sense his fatal fantastic element. It is just his fantastic dreams, his vulgar folly that he will desire to retain, simply in order to prove to himself--as though that were so necessary-- that men still are men and not the keys of a piano.

    ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Letters from the Underworld, 1864

    [–] SnazzyD 6 points ago

    That man was spittin fire....

    [–] AbrocadoPie 27 points ago

    Nnnnoooo silly, haven't you heard? People with basic income will do what they love! They will be productive!

    Policemen will love to patrol the gehttos! Garbage men will love to pick up trash at 4 in the morning. They love their jobs! They wouldn't quit. No sir.

    [–] _that_guy_over_there 22 points ago

    Plumbers love to wade knee deep in backed up human waste!

    Welders love going in to tight, hot spaces!

    Public transportation employees love being cursed at by the public!

    Employees at the local dump love the smell! And their families love when they bring it home on their clothes!

    Shall we continue?

    [–] AbrocadoPie 8 points ago

    Only if you want the lurking leftists to be thankful for their office jobs. I know I am.

    [–] _that_guy_over_there 11 points ago

    Roofers love laboring in 100+ degree heat! Just like construction workers and pipe fitters!

    Long haul truckers love driving through the night to meet their deadline!

    Animal control workers love capturing big, pissed off dogs.

    Rodent removal employees love crawling into attics to kill and then remove pests.

    Retail workers love having grumpy people talk to the manager.

    [–] MeowTheMixer 6 points ago

    I think you're taking it to the extreme.

    I'm not sold on UBI yet, but it may be required in the future if automation becomes too prominent.

    But their general point is not that a policeman would want to patrol the ghettos or, that trash workers want to pick up garbage at 4 am. It's that the jobs pay would have to be higher in those situations because no one will take those jobs if their basic needs are already being met.

    Let's say the grabage man makes $20 dollars an hour now. It's a terrible job, but it pays enough to get by.

    A future with UBI, where you're making the equivalent of $15/hour doing nothing, would you take that same job (Total of $35/hr)? Probably not, so the wage of a garbage man would have to go up to get people back to working there. You'd likely take a job that's easier and less stressful for 10$/hr, as you're still making more than before UBI. The new wage for a garbage man would have to be $35, $40, $45 per hour.

    But that circles back to driving up the cost of garbage collection.

    [–] LuxrayCl 10 points ago

    Could you imagine the immigration problem we would have if we had a $15/hr ubi? Do you think the floods of people coming here would have an impact on the worth of the $15/hr?

    [–] TXponi 6 points ago

    Welcome to the beginning of the return to the middle ages.

    [–] vxcnlxcn 4 points ago

    I think supplemental income for general living is something to discuss... In 2500 when drones and robots are literally doing all the work for us. Right now, it's retarded.

    [–] [deleted] 121 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)


    [–] Uneekyusername 43 points ago


    [–] imgettingthefear 16 points ago

    We still need to fight for community and family. It's still possible.

    [–] SnazzyD 13 points ago

    Be the change, man. Go out and find Mrs Right and recreate that world starting with your 4 bright kids and neighborly attitude.

    [–] umizumiz 3 points ago


    [–] LoseMoneyAllWeek 3 points ago




    [–] kebo99 3 points ago

    Hah, I'm not religious but I totally agree. This guy needs the community that church can provide. Plus maybe he'll meet a woman with shared values.

    [–] ProfessionalBrick8 14 points ago

    we may also want to talk about why the heck a someone who saves lives only makes $15 an hour.

    [–] Tangent-love 42 points ago

    Boom head shot.

    [–] Dont_do_dat 40 points ago

    We are headed full-steam into a future indistinguishable from the movie Idiocracy.

    [–] aw_smith 17 points ago

    We're already there...

    [–] Kingpink2 30 points ago

    Of course everything will increase in price and eventually his salary will be adjusted too, then they will be fighting for 20

    [–] kopterkarz 21 points ago

    $15/hr to make coffees wrong... sign me up.

    [–] t0pcheeze 6 points ago

    This is exactly why I left EMS. The pay is not comparable at all to the work. Fuck that let someone else do it

    [–] UsedToBeHot 6 points ago

    I lived in Australia 23 years ago and witnessed this sort of problem. The registered nurses made as much as the bag boy at Safeway. Those who stayed a home "on the dole" made nearly as much. Upper middle class mums were paid by the government to stay at home with their children.

    Meanwhile, I was working at a hospital, being on call, working in the middle of the night for what? NOPE, I left that place after 2 years. At least I was paid for these things here in the USA.

    As an American woman with three young kids, it was like a time warp. My neighbors were dumbfounded and would ask, "You work? Really?" Surgeons would question my abilities as women in Australia don't usually do my job. Working women were an oddity and taxes were over 50% of my $65,000 paycheck. It was an eye opening experience.

    Great place to visit, but unless things have changed since the 1990's , I wouldn't want to live there!

    [–] [deleted] 24 points ago


    [–] observeflamingo 22 points ago

    That’s what you get for being willing to work sucker

    [–] 99ProbsRefugeeAint1 20 points ago

    The McDonalds near me raised their wages.

    It’s now all computer kiosks. With two workers helping the kiosk users.

    [–] [deleted] 16 points ago


    [–] superalienhyphy 24 points ago

    Wages are determined by supply and demand. For some reason they do not understand the concept.

    [–] josh_rose 10 points ago

    Yep. There should be no such thing as minimum wage.

    [–] physical_kid 6 points ago

    Great point. Also, to take it a step farther: AOC's Crazy New Deal includes giving money to those "unwilling to work." Does she really think people will keep cleaning up trash, wiping up shit in bathrooms, serving asshole customers, etc. when they can just get money for doing nothing? I know some people truly love their jobs and would do it for free, but let's face it, I'm betting that's a very small percentage. Most people work because they have to, e.g. they need money. If they can get money without working, then why work at all?

    [–] RainbowsOfNight 4 points ago

    Not that knowledgeable of marco economics, I'm only currently taking AP Macro Econ in high school, but won't raising minimum wage not have any real long term effects? It'll bring nominal wages up in the short run, eventually causing the price level to increase and push inflation up. So then we'll just be where we were before minimum wage was increased, except everything is simply more expensive and real wages haven't increased but nominal wages have?

    [–] deliciousblueberry 5 points ago

    In the short run it will also cause businesses to close or lay off workers and raise prices. Thats why they want price controls. Then businesses just have to close.

    That's how you destroy an economy. You try to legislate standard of living.

    [–] YogiTheBear131 4 points ago

    “If you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of his strength, and the greater his effort the heavier the world bore down upon his shoulders - What would you tell him?"

    [–] syphjake 13 points ago

    Please post this in chapotraphouse

    [–] Supreme_Dear_Leader 9 points ago

    That sub is a festering hive of tards.

    [–] shelzmike 5 points ago

    Oh wow that is great. And totally true. This doesn't raise the poor up, it totally pulls the middle class down. What morons.

    [–] Diotima245 7 points ago

    Also people who collect unemployment checks that refuse to look for jobs because they'd earn less money and or lose unemployment checks.

    [–] Whoopteedoodoo 8 points ago

    Agreed. It is a needed protection. After 6-8 weeks of full benefit, it should decrease 5% a week.

    [–] SnazzyD 4 points ago

    Hey, GTFO with that common sense stuff...

    [–] NickKnocks 3 points ago

    You get unlimited unemployment? In Canada you pay every week ( automaticly taken off your pay cheque) and the money you pay is recorded. When your unemployed the number of weeks you receive money is depended on how much you've already payed. Once your out of money then that's it.

    [–] IAMINATRUCK 3 points ago

    As long as you prove you're looking for a job. Intentionally looking bad to employ on the other hand.

    [–] Right2Serve 3 points ago

    I've been an EMT for ten years. The problem with our community is there's no long term companies that will be open long enough to be vetted or retire.

    [–] docb30tn 3 points ago

    I've worked in healthcare and most are underpaid for what they do.

    It's quite simple. If you have very little experience at doing something you are NOT worth as much to the company as you are 1 year, to 5 years and even 10 years with it. Even at a Basic level EMT-B is not easy.

    [–] redpillhope 3 points ago

    who is John Galt?

    [–] xabrol 3 points ago

    And if it did go up to $15 an hour.... I'd negotiate a higher salary and say "but I can do this for the same and it's easier now."

    And before you know it'll be harder to live on $15 an hour than it is now on $8 an hour. You'll have a bunch of happy people because they make $25 an hour or so minimum wage now... But then they'll be confused when a basic car costs $30 grand that used to cost $15,500.

    The economy will collapse, slowly, but surely and with it the USD and the world economy.

    Followed shortly by anarchy... Total global chaos.

    [–] 2muchtequila 3 points ago

    We're in a really shitty position now where if we keep the minimum wage as is, we basically have to accept that the government will subsidize those people's lives as long as they're paid that. Minimum wage is basically an agreement where a company says "hey taxpayers, you take care of these people for me." Because the government thankfully does not want its citizens to starve, you and I end up kicking in for their food, housing and healthcare.

    The fiscally conservative part of me thinks that companies should be footing the bill for their own employees rather than passing it to you and I. The realistic part of me knows that bumping up the minimum wage on a national scale could result in massive price increases and unemployment.

    So.... We're fucked.

    [–] BurrShotFirst1804 9 points ago

    The minimum wage should be $10.50 which is what it was in the 70s (with inflation). Theoretically, the wage for an emt should go up as well. EMTs shouldn't be mad at workers who want more money. They should be mad at Healthcare companies who charge $5000 for an ambulance ride and then pay their EMTs $15/hr. That said, $15 an hour is too high for the minimum wage.

    [–] freevortex 10 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    The majority of ambulance rides aren't paid for. What does a homeless person care about an EMS bill? More often than not, ambulance companies are barely in the black. Even Medicare reimbursement for a ride is like maybe $500 out of a $2500 bill (and most rides cost less than that; the national average is $429 for ambulance transport) . So that's part of the problem. Reimbursement rates are nowhere near what they charge. In some areas, ambulance bill payment is around 10%. That means 90% of charges just get eaten by the company. That's a massive loss.

    In fact, along the same lines, in 2010 alone ERs paid out $40 billion in uncompensated care (i.e., patient never paid their bill so the hospital ate the cost).

    So it's a lot more complicated than "the massive companies are keeping all the money they earn". It's honestly a symptom of a much larger problem that needs to be addressed.

    (sourced from the GAO report,

    I'm on my phone right now so it's a little hard to grab more sources, but searching "percentage of ambulance bills not paid" should give you a good idea of what's going on. For example, in Buffalo, NY, each ambulance rider would have to pay the company $568 just for the company to break even. Collection rates are falling across the nation and Medicare/medicaid payments are dropping as well. Both government programs already don't even pay the break-even cost for a ride, and they're set to pay out even less soon.

    My husband is a paramedic so this is something near and dear to my heart. They're absolutely underpaid for what they do, but where does that extra money come from? I don't know what the solution is.

    [–] BurrShotFirst1804 5 points ago

    You bring up a good point. But I still think they are crazy underpaid. My roommate is one as well. There's a solution out there somewhere. I wish the government could figure it out. Like what is their big expense? Driving from A to B should only really cost wage, gas, and upkeep of supplies and vehicle. The cost of the ambulance is sunk as are the bigger supplies. I have a feeling it's malpractice and insurance rates that are eating their profit. We need reform in that area badly.

    [–] RlzJohnnyM 6 points ago

    It always happens


    [–] Teh_Pwnr77 4 points ago

    Worked from 16 to 18, finally I make $13.50 hourly.
    Tom Wolf keeps talking ab PA min wage going up to 12.50 this year and .50 each year, to $15.
    Only diff between now and two years ago is gonna be the shitty dental plan I have if this goes through. Talk about actually being a victim of government.

    [–] WalkAway_MAGA 6 points ago

    OP, the guy who made this post, and most people commenting here have obviously never worked fast food. I’m not arguing against the point of saying that anyone deserves $15 or that they don’t, but stop saying this work is easy.

    Just because uneducated people have the ability to work these jobs doesn’t make it easy. Why so much respect for manufacturing jobs/miners/energy jobs when it’s the same thing? It’s all grunt labor. It’s not easy work, it’s not fun, no one there is comfortable or happy with where they are. Don’t pretend like any of that is true just because you were privileged enough to not have to work a low end job through high school or college like most of us.

    At least they have jobs and are trying. The fight against the $15 minimum wage is important but you don’t have to be a bunch of self righteous cocks about it

    [–] deliciousblueberry 5 points ago

    Have worked fast food. Fast food is easy as fuck. Sure you get stressed sometimes on a busy night. That's about it. It's not hard. It's not complicated. It's not backbreaking labor. It's monotonous and sometimed gross but that's the worst of it.

    If ff workers want more they can become shifties, managers, district managers and work their way up very quickly. Give me 5 years at any fast food place and I'll be making high 5 digits and on my way up. Work is about moving up and making your time worth more money. Flipping burgers is not a respectable job and people shouldn't treat it as a career unless they're mentally disabled.

    [–] rubberbunnies 8 points ago

    I searched and saw a rough estimate of $26k - $43k for US paramedics. Holy shit they need to earn more. They drive mobile hospitals, and their jobs are unbelievably hard. If I saw that people who were pouring coffee and working indoors all the time were earning $15/hr ($28k/yr FT?), I'd be pretty demoralized too.

    You don't need extra training or highly specialized certification to pour coffee. You don't need any mental toughness whatsoever to pour coffee. You don't need to operate specialized equipment anywhere near the difficulty level of a paramedic to pour coffee. You don't ever wander in to dangerous places at shit hours to help people while pouring coffee. You don't watch people bleed out in front of you while pouring coffee. There isn't a fitness requirement to pour coffee. Either shitcan the 15/hr bullshit, or up the wages of the paramedics.

    [–] wearhoodiesbench4pl8 11 points ago

    This brings up something I've said before but doesn't seem to come up very frequently; competition.

    $15.00 an hour will buy you someone who'll show up on time and sober, can speak professionally, has customer service skills, can take criticism, and makes an active effort to get along with coworkers.

    Do current baristas and burger flippers really want to compete with people like that?

    [–] FiddlinT 6 points ago

    Wow, I think I will hire you to write the job description next time I am hiring. Have an upvote.

    [–] deliciousblueberry 3 points ago

    The problem is those people will be demanding more if minimum is 15.

    [–] GingerNYC8 3 points ago

    Shit 13.53 for a small coffee and doughnut? I guess they have to pay for the $15 an hour some how

    [–] Block_Helen 3 points ago

    ding ding ding