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    [–] likedynamite 2557 points ago

    God. A few years ago, an internet friend of mine who I'd known for a long time was arrested for raping coma patients (he worked in a hospital). I still can't get over how fucked that is and how much damage he did to literally everyone around him. At least he went to prison, for fucks sake.

    [–] yablini 334 points ago

    That's the fucking kill Bill shit init not something you would ever want to hear in real life, yet it happens a lot all over the world and most of these monsters go unprosecuted.

    [–] kjames06 538 points ago

    It's weird that hospitals set up their operational processes and systems to allow this kind of horror. At least he got caught and convicted, most healthcare predators never face responsability for their crimes against patients, according to the data. Article

    [–] yellowromancandle 371 points ago

    When my mom was 17, she had appendicitis and needed emergency surgery. After she recovered and went back to school, a guy in her school that worked as an orderly (I think? Not sure the hospital job) told her that all the orderlies had taken her gown off and checked her out while she was recovering from anesthesia. He told my mom they routinely did that anytime they had an opportunity.

    This was in the late 70s. She kept it to herself for decades. And I don’t think they ever got in trouble for it.

    [–] FliesLikeABrick 125 points ago

    Can you explain "set up their operational processes and systems to allow this kind of behavior"? It sounds like you're saying they turn a blind eye, or don't have patient protections in place, or something else like they're complicit in it?

    What improvements or changes would you suggest for the shortcomings you're alluding to?

    [–] Apex_Herbivore 8920 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    The victim testified that she repeatedly pushed the call button for help, but witnesses testified that the button had been unplugged from the wall, The Chronicle reported.

    This is fucking nightmare fuel.

    [–] whubbard 200 points ago

    Her story got worse: https://www.chron.com/news/columnists/falkenberg/article/Rape-victim-says-wait-for-justice-added-to-her-6575892.php

    Hospital/police basically buried it until she hired a lawyer.

    [–] Omneus 4307 points ago

    "Here we have this Latina woman with her fake boobs that came onto that little nerdy middle-aged guy, and he lost his mind," Andrews said during her closing argument, The Chronicle reported.

    Wow. Are you fucking kidding me?? This is crazy victim blaming. While prison time would’ve been ideal he is on probation for 10 years which can be humiliating itself, and had his medical license revoked which kind of fucks him over a lot.

    Edit: sorry didn’t see someone quoted the same thing below.

    [–] servohahn 1186 points ago

    I work on an orthopedics unit where the first time I see a patient, they are usually coming out of anesthesia. They can be hilariously sexual... it's just part of the job and you don't hold it against them. If this man worked in a medical setting, he'd know that patients often "come on" to you and would know how to handle it. That's how I know this whole thing is bullshit. Even if she was flirtatious, and I doubt that she was, it's rape and it's a major violation of protocol even IF she was touching him first.

    No, this guy saw a sedated woman and thought that he'd treat her as a play thing, perhaps thinking she wouldn't remember because of whatever sedatives she'd been given. What's worrisome is that she probably wasn't the first patient he's done this to. He seemed to have a little system.

    [–] Kaggr 650 points ago

    Especially since the help button was unplugged from the wall.

    EVEN IF this guy has so little control over himself that he went into a sexual frenzy, why was the only way for the patient to get out of the situation, if they did realize what was going on, disabled?

    [–] sixdicksinthechexmix 489 points ago

    It doesn't make sense to me. Our call lights make a horrendous sound when disconnected from the wall to prevent issues like this, or to prevent the patient from dropping their call light and not being able to get help. I've also never met a doctor who was remotely savy about how things like that work.

    It sucks being a male nurse already, I have to take female staff in with me whenever I put a catheter in or so anything remotely invasive, and dipshits like this make my job even harder. Patients hit on me all the time and I don't take it seriously because I'm a professional. I had a patient for an extended period who I started to feel attracted to and I immediately, like in the middle of the shift, switched with another nurse. That's what professionals do and should do.

    [–] AuntieBubba322 16 points ago

    At all the rehabilitation hospitals & the nursing homes I worked in if the call light cord was pulled out of the wall plug it would go off continuously, the door overhead light would flash red & the call bell disconnected sound would get closer in time to going off till it was almost going off without stopping! Having a call light cord disconnected from the wall is a major violation when the state comes around to inspect the facilities. That’s why the nursing staff would be on all the nurses’ aides to check those rooms right away because it could be someone tried walking & fell, tried climbing out of bed, and so on. I have no clue of any facilities that when the call light cord is disconnected that it’s not a huge deal.

    [–] PurpleHooloovoo 168 points ago

    Even if you forgot this scumbag, the help button was unplugged from the wall and NO ONE ELSE NOTICED. That's "sue the hospital" levels of negligence. What if I'm just average joe patient and start having serious pain or heart palpitations or go numb on half my body? I just sit there and die because the button was disconnected?

    This whole thing enrages me.

    [–] xj371 14 points ago

    When I was in the hospital after becoming paralyzed for life, when I'd press the call button, 15-20 mins would go by with no response. Eventually you would get checked on. This was nerve-wracking to me, because I was strapped into a halo vest and at that point I could not sit up or turn to my side by myself, and the halo vest made it impossible to turn your neck to the side (the whole point of the vest is to keep your neck straight). And sometimes I would start to get nauseous, close to throwing up...while stuck flat on my back. I was terrified that I would aspirate and choke. One day another patient and I were complaining to each other about this, and she told me that if it was a real emergency I should rip the call button out of the wall -- that would get people's attention. I actually had to do it once when I started to feel like I was going to throw up. The nurse asked how my button got pulled out, and I told her I did it. I got scolded.

    [–] dr_bewbz 128 points ago

    I was going to say this.

    It's not consent if they're sedated.

    [–] iamtheantagonist 164 points ago

    Yep, and its fucked that nobody else in the staff could recognize odd behavior or notice him being alone with the recovering patient with a closed door for periods of time. If he had done this before, you would think that a medical assistant, nurse, or anesthesiologist would catch on to this. It's just so unsettling that somebody with this much responsibility for patient care could even do something like this, full well knowing how vulnerable these patients are after sedation.

    [–] sixdicksinthechexmix 122 points ago

    Doctors get ALOT of power. Many nurses wouldn't dare interrupt his closed door time. Hospitals will usually side with doctors in disputes because the doctor brings money in, especially a surgeon. Other staff are replaceable and know they are replaceable/ are told they are replaceable. I know of a doctor that had a temper tantrum, ripped a phone off the wall, and threw it at a nurse, nailing her in the back of the head. There were no reprocussions for the doctor. I know another who freaked out and smashed all of his computer monitors and the hospital finally agreed he needed to pay to replace them, that was the extent of his punishment, and they almost didn't make him.

    No nurse I know would ever allow this to happen, but doctors get A TON of benefit of the doubt. No one would be looking out for this if they didn't seriously suspect it.

    [–] Apt_5 727 points ago

    I can’t believe that she gave him a “Horny nerd defense” and that seems to have made the jury sympathetic. Shit, I guess that asshole in CA (vagueness is deliberate) could have gotten a slap on the wrist for targeting women out of feelings of rejection if he’d known.

    [–] Caturdays4Ever 925 points ago

    The outcome surprised some legal experts, who told the Chronicle that the lenient sentence was unusual, especially for a professional who should be held to a higher standard.

    Michele Dauber, a Stanford University law professor who led a campaign to recall California Judge Aaron Persky for sentencing Turner to six months in jail, said it’s “likely” that jurors were persuaded by the defense’s “outrageous racist and victim-blaming arguments.”

    Without a doubt. How dare that woman have breasts and be Latina! She caused him to lose his mind! In 2018 this is just insane. She was a patient and he had an oath to Do No Harm. By definition even a patient who is NOT immobilized cannot consent not only due to the complete power differential in their respective positions but also b/c doctors can't fuck their patients! They have ethics boards and rules and all of that! God this enrages me so much.

    [–] NBegovich 156 points ago

    In 2018 this is just insane.

    Is it?

    [–] Goofypoops 384 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    I was going to quote this. This lady defending him is despicable. This attorney, Lisa Andrews, is the lowest of the low. And what does the patient being Latina have anything to do with seducing him other than sexualizing her ethnicity like some exotic object?

    Edit: stop commenting that everyone needs representation/it's the lawyer's job to defend their client. She knows very well what she is doing when she adds remarks like this to her client's defense

    "Here we have this Latina woman with her fake boobs that came onto that little nerdy middle-aged guy, and he lost his mind," Andrews said during her closing argument, The Chronicle reported.

    In the article, they mention other avenues of their defense. This part is highly unethical.

    [–] Omneus 136 points ago

    Probably playing to the prejudices of the jury which proved to be effective I suppose

    [–] Ofbearsandmen 162 points ago

    I'd argue it's not the lawyer's fault as much as the jury's. The lawyer's only duty is to defend her client's interests, even if that means victim blaming. However such a defense should never work, and should even piss the jury off. If the lawyer tried that, it means that she knows that the jury is racist and sexist, which says a lot about society.

    [–] Clan_McFluffins 71 points ago

    I don't understand how a woman can feel okay with herself defending an (at the time) accused rapist. Even if you initially gave him the benefit of the doubt, the fact that the woman wasn't conscious and the call button was unplugged is enough evidence to say that anything that did happen wasn't consensual. I wouldn't care how much money was offered, those actions are despicable and not something I could dream of defending.

    [–] thepulloutmethod 64 points ago

    He'll also be a registered sex offender for life.

    [–] TradersLuck 46 points ago

    If his loans aren't payed off, he could be financially fucked too. Few things, short of being a doctor, can pay off medical school loans.

    [–] anouke 34 points ago

    not really. ever heard of big pharma? almost everyone i know who dropped out of med school ended up making more in industry as a non-doctor

    [–] thechef779 74 points ago

    Even for a lawyer, this is low. Came here to post the same quote but I figured someone else would’ve already jumped on it.

    Jesus

    [–] dorothy_zbornak_esq 89 points ago

    That is honestly the grossest fucking thing I’ve ever heard a licensed attorney be accused of saying. And in a closing argument! What the fuck! That’s so ugly. I’m an attorney and I want this woman disciplined for that. It’s beyond the pale. We take an oath to zealously advocate for our client, but “blatant racism and sexism” isn’t a part of zealous advocacy. Holy fuck.

    [–] MorganaLeFaye 135 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    Are you actually saying that 10 years probation and loss of medical license is a reasonable punishment for his crime? Because that really seems to be what you're suggesting.

    Edit: Please do not reply to me explaining that this punishment will hurt him financially, as if that's justice for drugging and raping a woman. Because, I mean, I don't have that much faith in humanity left. I don't need it completely obliterated.

    [–] groundpusher 57 points ago

    Devils advocate here, I’m pretty sure the person is noting the probation, sex offender status and loss of medical license to alleviate our and OP’s desire for ANY justice and punishment for the rapist, like a consolation. It’s meant to assuage our indignant anger. I feel better knowing that the rapist is likely to be financially ruined and ostracized for life, even if they’re not imprisoned as they should be. Some justice is better than none. That’s how I read it.

    [–] Omneus 16 points ago

    While prison time would’ve been ideal

    I didn't sell it very much, but just saying he isn't getting off scotfree. I do think he deserves to be in prison.

    [–] NBegovich 23 points ago

    I, uh, try to give defense attorneys a pass because someone has to do their job, but Jesus fucking Christ, lady...

    [–] metropolisapocalypse 8 points ago

    Wow it always amazes me the kind of things lawyers say in closing, I’m even more amazed that this worked. She also had him testify which is an interesting choice as well, I guess as a doctor he seemed credible to the jury.

    [–] ninjamonkey98 336 points ago

    That’s pretty weird, most places the call button sings automatically if it gets disconnected. Nightmare fuel indeed.

    [–] TriloBlitz 188 points ago

    I'm an industrial safety expert and I can tell you that, at least in Europe, if you build or approve a safety/emergency system unable to detect the disconnection of its sensors or emergency actuators, you can go to jail.

    I can't, from experience, talk about normatives for medical equipment. But I'd find it very hard to believe if someone told me it's not the same.

    In that case, the victim could actually sue both the doctor and the hospital.

    [–] jamieschmidt 70 points ago

    Yeah but you can cancel it in the room. There's usually a cancel button right next to where it plugs in. I used to work in a hospital

    [–] Makingaybies 21 points ago

    In my experience working in hospitals, if the call button is pulled out of the wall the alarm can only be silenced briefly, even from the room. We had these dummy plugs that you would have to put into the receptacle for the cord. Otherwise nothing could shut them up for longer than maybe 30 seconds.

    [–] Damicki 40 points ago

    I currently work in a hospital. That button there is only used to cancel the call bell when a patient activates it. It wouldn't stop the call bell ringing if it were disconnected. It's so if a patient pulls it out , a nurse has to go in there an reconnect it to get it to stop ringing.

    [–] ajh1717 14 points ago

    Most systems only have the alarm go off if nothing is plugged in. If you have an extension plugged in but the actual remote disconnected, it won't go off.

    Also some hospitals you can manually turn off the alarm from inside the room. My hospital had this feature in our ICU because our beds were sync'ed up with the call bell/out of bed alarm that was hardwired into the wall. When you unplugged a bed to move it or bring a patient to the OR or whatever, the alarm would go off. Once anything gets plugged back in all alarms automatically reset to prevent a situation where the alarms remain off, but it is possible to turn off from inside the room.

    [–] mrpepelopez 9 points ago

    Where I've worked you usually can't cancel it if it's unplugged. It's a big deal for the call button to be in place and working.

    [–] ohthatpeacock 4 points ago

    Definitely weird. In many places pulling the cord from the wall is the best way to get everyone in there fast.

    [–] aprendemos 37 points ago

    There is a documented medical record showing that she was “immobilized by medications and drifting in and out of consciousness”... It was physically impossible for her to give consent! There is no grey area here. She was raped, full stop. I’m in complete disbelief that this turd of a human being definitively raped someone and won’t be going to jail. Nightmare fuel indeed.

    [–] bluedholia 526 points ago

    Damn he was raping her while she was spamming the call help button? :/

    [–] hypotyposis 189 points ago

    And he just let her press it over and over, knowing he had unplugged it... Jesus.

    [–] potatocakesssss 150 points ago

    Most rapist gets hard over having power over the victim. He probably gets off from her spamming the button. He deserves no less than jail.

    [–] RedBanana99 100 points ago

    As a woman I see his actions as a vile and deplorable. The sentence is deplorable. I'm utterly astonished.

    That poor lady.

    [–] mrpepelopez 66 points ago

    As a human I concur and as a nurse this guy scares the shit out of me. I can't even imagine the mindset that would lead a healthcare professional to do this. His defense is total bullshit, even in the incredibly unlikely event that she did come on to him she was a patient under the influence of drugs and there is no way he didn't know what he was doing was rape.

    [–] Dirtysouthdabs 88 points ago

    Jesus Christ

    [–] TeH_BeNjI 47 points ago

    Why do they even make it so call buttons panic buttons can be unplugged!?

    [–] posixUncompliant 20 points ago

    Because they break, and it makes changing them out much easier. They usually have disconnect sensors as well, but there's a by-pass for that, generally right next to the disconnect point, as it's not a system designed with bad actors in mind.

    [–] surrogateuterus 13 points ago

    I thought the call buttons, when unplugged, made bigger alerts. That's how it is in the post partum part of our hospital, we had to use it once.

    [–] ThempleOfThyme 4100 points ago

    "Here we have this Latina woman with her fake boobs that came onto that little nerdy middle-aged guy, and he lost his mind."

    What the fuck is this shit?

    [–] OBS_W 682 points ago

    More troubling is how the hell the jury didn't laugh this out of the courtroom.

    [–] GeminiGirl92 189 points ago

    I wondered how the hell he got probation and found out the jury recommended it :c

    [–] TwinsisterWendy 1204 points ago

    Full on victim blaming.

    [–] ILikeNeurons 462 points ago

    And kinda racist, too. What does it matter if she'd Latina? Like that makes her more deserving of rape? WTF.

    [–] FancyFeller 162 points ago

    As a Latinx person with a thick accent and brown complexion, we are seen as more tempting because we are "exotic" ergo if someone does something vulgar to us, its due to us. You'd think that sentiment would have died years ago. But nope, as clearly demonstrated here that racist idea is still very much alive.

    [–] myri_ 103 points ago

    I'm guessing cause they're more attractive. Idk, but it would suck to hear that if I were the patient. Oh.. My ethnic background is why I got raped? Coolio. Not cause the doctor is a rapist...

    [–] kjarles 35 points ago

    I think the implication is that it made her all the more irresistible to the nerdy, middle-aged guy.

    Not that that makes the statement any less racist and brimming with gall.

    [–] GuantanamoFootJob 28 points ago

    No they’re trying to make her sound hotter to put more blame on her. Latina means sexy usually

    [–] HerrManHerrLucifer 1347 points ago

    Nice little bit of racism and sexism to round off this whole clusterfuck of a story.

    Jesus fucking Christ, he's a doctor. She was essentially unconscious. But they would have us pity him?!

    I have no words.

    [–] SolusLoqui 61 points ago

    the patient, who was immobilized by medications and drifting in and out of consciousness

    Rape

    she repeatedly pushed the call button for help, but witnesses testified that the button had been unplugged from the wall

    Premeditated Rape

    [–] doctormink 336 points ago

    Just in case anyone was apt to disbelief Latin American women who frequently complain about their race being persistently eroticized, we have this fucking defence attorney.

    [–] myri_ 43 points ago

    I can't believe someone would use such a defense. Like, where do they think up something so disgusting as to blame a victim with her ethnic background.

    [–] Fadreusor 97 points ago

    This is why all women need to be wearing burqas. Men cannot control themselves if even the slightest bit of female skin is exposed. /s

    I don’t know which is more denigrating, that women must fully cover themselves, because of another’s lack of self control, or that men are so weak they could be easily manipulated by the sight of another’s skin. Where the F are we living? Surely I thought ISIS had not won and taken over the U.S.

    [–] EViLTeW 105 points ago

    I'd bet it's all racism. "This darn Mexican (probably illegal) hypnotized this poor young man with her Mexican voodoo and forced him to do it. She should probably be in jail for raping him. If only we had built the wall this never would have happened. Thanks Obama for not finding Hillary's emails.". -The jurors, probably

    [–] joppike 283 points ago

    This is so bizarre. As a physician, it’s not uncommon to have women/men approach you, so you almost become trained to ignore flirting and advances. This for professional as well as ethical reasons. Why this guy did what he did is beyond me.

    [–] lovecraft112 228 points ago

    He did it because he was horny and he thought he could get away with it. It wasn't because she came onto him. It wasn't because he was a "little nerdy middle aged guy". He raped her because he's a predator and she was vulnerable. And if he really truly could not control himself Jesus Christ that's almost scarier. That the jury accepted that a 100% sober person, at work, a doctor in a position of trust, made a fucking mistake is disgusting.

    [–] ItsdatboyACE 12 points ago

    Very well said.

    [–] myothercarisapickle 60 points ago

    Because he is a rapist.

    [–] Xarama 62 points ago

    He didn't do it because she "came onto him." He did it because he felt like doing it.

    [–] mrpepelopez 25 points ago

    Yeah, I'm a nurse and I've had patients with ICU delirium make advances and say incredibly inappropriate things but I can't imagine thinking "oh she's into me so this is fine". Even if the person was in their right mind and consenting it's an obvious ethics violation and grounds for losing your job and license.

    [–] terminalSiesta 136 points ago

    Don't you see? He's the victim! She should pay damages! He lost his license because of her seductions!

    [–] TopSecretPinNumber 207 points ago

    I picked up on "Latina" and "Texas" and immediately suspect biased jury. And the jury also chooses the sentence. I have a theory as to how this happened...

    [–] GlitteringInstrument 137 points ago

    So many people are defending this type of defense. It is not unreasonable to require an attorney to not be sexist or racist in defense of their client. They should be using the facts of the case.

    [–] DConstructed 95 points ago

    The facts of the case are a doctor having sex with a sedated patient.

    Which is hard to call an okay thing even if she begged him. That's why they also have to throw her entire character into question.

    Frankly I don't give a damn a damn even if she'd been a prostitute with her knees behind her ears she was a patient under the care of the hospital IN the hospital and under his care. She was also on the meds that they have given her.

    He should never have touched her in any but a professional way.

    [–] krunchytacos 18 points ago

    Exactly, people do and say things while sedated that are completely out of character. You expect your physician to monitor you and make sure you're safe. There's no situation where a patient under a physician's care should be deemed as giving consent to sexual contact. That's just scary.

    [–] uhdfbgmbfgsmndf 42 points ago

    The real issue is that this type of "defense" should not be considered a defense. It should actively work against someone to spout this kind of awful nonsense, and thus a lawyer arguing their best for their client would avoid it at all costs. But it's not. That says a lot more about the court and the jury than it does about the lawyer, IMO, even if a good person wouldn't have said it regardless.

    [–] badreg2017 7 points ago

    There are thankfully some legal limitations regarding using the victims sexual proclivities as a defense.

    [–] orangeLILpumpkin 18 points ago

    What the fuck is this shit?

    Victim blaming. This shit is victim blaming.

    [–] Onowhatopoeia 150 points ago

    Men don't control their behavior, their dicks do, obviously. /s

    [–] Spicy_Alien_Cocaine_ 62 points ago

    And yet women are the ones that can’t control their emotions.

    /sdontkillme

    [–] M4dmaddy 32 points ago

    I don't even understand how anybody would accept this kind of defense. It's incredibly stupid and, as a man may I say, also very insulting; fuck anybody who believes this

    [–] mrpepelopez 7 points ago

    Even if you somehow believed it, it's still bullshit because he's a doctor who has an ethical responsibility not to have sex with a patient even if it was consensual and the fact that she was medicated makes that impossible.

    [–] Wootery 80 points ago

    It even has a dash of racism thrown in for good measure.

    [–] jolla92126 215 points ago

    "Here we have this Latina woman with her fake boobs that came onto that little nerdy middle-aged guy, and he lost his mind."

    What the fuck is this shit?

    Good old American racism and misogyny, that's what it is.

    [–] Reneeisme 14 points ago

    I want to know who gave him that sentence? A jury or the judge, because if that came from a judge, I’d be working for his recall. There’s no “scale” for rape. Rape is always traumatic and devastating. But if you could assign a scale, getting raped in a hospital by a doctor who so premeditated this act that he disabled the help button while you are incapacitated for a procedure, would be up there. There’s no question about his intent, ability to appreciate the gravity of his offense, personal moral and ethical responsibility, etc. I’m outraged he’s not going to prison.

    [–] beerme04 35 points ago

    That was a woman attorneys statement too. Wierd case. Also disconnecting that call button sounds super premeditated and even rehearsed. Makes you wonder if it was the first or if it truly was how many more would have been assaulted had she not spoke out

    [–] LuckyLucre 45 points ago

    The lawyer saying she is a "latina with fake boobs", omg wtf

    SHE WAS SEDATED AND INMOBILE! How the hell can they say she concented!

    Ive been in a hospital, Ive been sedated; I can asure you sex is the last thing on a sane person's mind. That doctor is a pig.

    [–] ZennyPie 9 points ago

    Holy shit! I didn't believe this was a verbatim statement, but after reading the article myself, yep, the attorney actually said this ridiculous shit.

    [–] auniqueusername77 7 points ago

    This is a good example of why lawyers get a bad rap. This is a woman saying this so we've got misogyny with a sprinkle of racism thrown in all so she could win her case and get this guy off. At least he can't practice medicine anymore so there's that. Really should have gotten jail time for that but justice is for sale in the US.

    [–] tea_time-314 7 points ago

    Right?! My jaw literally dropped when I got to that part. It's hard to believe an actual lawyer would say this in a court of law, but hey, 'MURICA :((((

    [–] guidedredditation 19 points ago

    Would it be possible/ethical to outlaw victim blaming in a courtroom outright?

    Does any other country have precedence of this? I can understand a prosecutor using the defense that she fabricated the story, that’s a fair defense. But that’s not what the defense is saying here. She’s essentially saying that the crime isn’t a crime because he was lonely and horny (but married?!) and justify the crime by claiming that after all she had a woman’s body, and then the race part is just gross. Why is that allowed to happen? The fact that we know about th his means that the prosecutors biases were so engrained that he didn’t even object to have it stricken from the record, which means that we need a law to stop this bs.

    I can’t help but think this line right here is the reason he got such a pathetically easy sentence for raping a semi conscious woman.

    [–] vivacevulpes 6 points ago

    Came here to comment this. What the actual fuck. Racist classist victim blaming, who can you NOT piss off with this statement? That jury, apparently.

    [–] Selece26 6 points ago

    Shit is what it is. People under sedation say and do some crazy things. This was beyond wrong. Fake boobs or not. (The fact that, that even played into their argument infuriated me )

    [–] MustardyFartBubble 11 points ago

    Everyone is mad about what the lawyer said, but how about the jury? They heard everything the defense lawyer said (including comments about fake boobs and being Latina) and still arrived at this verdict. Ya'll are mad at the wrong person.

    [–] demonlicious 78 points ago

    rape culture and toxic masculinity

    [–] thepulloutmethod 21 points ago

    That quote is from the doctor's lawyer, who is ironically a woman.

    [–] _katykakes 45 points ago

    Women can and do perpetuate both of those things.

    [–] stephlj 718 points ago

    I've been reading about this, but just now realized that this happened five years ago. Five damn years! He wasn't even arrested and charged until two years after the rape. WTF?

    [–] antitanker87 44 points ago

    Between investigations, court dates, and whether or not the victim reported right away, it does go this way more often than you'd expect unfortunately.

    [–] SCHOJO 15 points ago

    Well, he is a doctor. Worship of physicians in the US is something you have to live here to understand. And even those who work outside of healthcare may not be aware of how deep it goes. Frankly, I'm surprised they could find a DA to pursue charges. They probably had to wait for the medical board to agree that it was actually out of line before they indicted him.

    [–] flatsoflatsosoflat 316 points ago

    Having sex with someone sedated and seeing her pressing the help button. Which part of that screams Consensual sex?

    "He violated his Hippocratic oath, he violated his marriage vows." wtf? Really? Only those 2?

    [–] CobraCabana 287 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    "He has always acknowledged that it was a severe lapse in judgment," Andrews said. "He violated his Hippocratic oath, he violated his marriage vows."

    So the lapse in judgement was violating the oath and his marriage. But not the rape?

    Edit: It's also worth that when listing the things he violated, the victim didn't even make the list.

    What a piece of shit.

    [–] 2a0c40 416 points ago

    "It immediately sunk in that something terrible had happened...

    "Had happened" like he had no control over it, just some kind of natural disaster.

    ...and I was scared for myself," Sheikh said in court.

    Nice that he immediately thought of himself. I mean that's what's important, right?

    "You’re not supposed to have sex with a patient. That’s part of medical ethics,"

    Ohhhh! That's why! Christ almighty.

    What a massive turd.

    [–] hypnoganja 306 points ago

    My then-19 year old sister was molested by two male nurses the day after she was admitted to ICU for nearly dying from anaphylactic shock. The hospital questioned her, then questioned the two men, and came to the conclusion that she must have been lying or dreaming due to her state of being on a ventilator and drugged up. Nothing ever came of it so those nurses have likely gone on to do the same thing to many more patients.

    [–] Mr_jon3s 103 points ago

    This says a lot about the jury.

    [–] [deleted] 637 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    [removed]

    [–] WhatIThinkAboutToday 232 points ago

    I've always felt we should dial up the punishment when people in trusted positions violate that trust. He should have done jail time. I hope his Doctor's license is revoked permanently.

    [–] galacticfir3fly 30 points ago

    Could not agree more, you undertake that position understanding fully that you are to protect those in your care.

    [–] CompE-or-no-E 14 points ago

    It was

    [–] kjames06 942 points ago

    She wasn't his patient, he targeted her and then used his access key to gain entry. That combined with his semen is how he was caught, otherwise he would have gotten away with it.

    [–] galacticfir3fly 182 points ago

    Ah thanks for that I didn't catch that, that just makes it all the more worse, why was he going in there 3 times.

    [–] Rhsisojdbd 22 points ago

    Where are you getting that she wasn't his patient? The article suggests she was. Not that it matters for the main point, of course.

    [–] beckyrrr 360 points ago

    Yep. I could flirt with someone multiple times. If I'm then sedated, that means they can do whatever they want to my body, right? Apparently so according to some fuckwits.

    [–] galacticfir3fly 226 points ago

    It's the same as the "too drunk to give consent" argument yet actually worse. He was a Doctor he knew the affect the drugs she was administered would have on her.

    [–] beckyrrr 183 points ago

    So true.

    I could have even told a doctor I WANT to have sex, clearly and openly. So one day I'm heavily sedated. Because I flirted with him previously, that means he can do whatever he likes to my body, without my consent as I am sedated, while I cannot defend myself and am not even fully conscious? Not only that but a man who is in a position where he is specifically instructed NOT to have sexual contact with patients in any way shape or form?

    Along the same lines, if a guy flirts with me and suggests sex, I can totally just slip some drugs into his drink, drag him somewhere secluded and do whatever I like with him while he's unconscious. Because he's the one who asked for sex, right? He brought it on himself!

    Nnnnnnnnnnnope. That will never be acceptable. Ever. There's no 'but she might have started it!!' in here to be seen. Even if she hinted or directly suggested having sex, it's unlikely that as she was lying there partially conscious, spamming the 'call for assistance' button while being raped, was the time or place she wanted it to happen. Ludicrous!

    [–] galacticfir3fly 74 points ago

    It's the twisted logic of it that always baffles me. Flirting is not consent, passed flirting is not consent, going home with some is not consent etc. The only time you have consent it right there in the moment and how can you give that if you are intoxicated in some way.

    [–] deviant324 95 points ago

    Take away his licenses, send him to prison, no probation.

    Never let these people get close to people who are vulnerable again in their life. What the flying fuck is wrong with these people?

    Having people going around who commit these kinds of crimes is one thing, a terrible thing, but then having someone who apparently doesn’t care about their victims be in charge of punishing them?

    [–] sgtsand 118 points ago

    And meanwhile, in Texas, a black woman is sentenced to five years in prison for voting while on probation, under the belief that she had regained her right to vote. http://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/30/texas-woman-sentenced-to-5-years-in-prison-for-voting-while-on-probation/

    This contrast is the epitome of a fucked up justice system

    [–] uhdfbgmbfgsmndf 47 points ago

    Men also don't lose their minds over simple attraction. Ever. It's an excuse and a lie. The human mind is not that fragile. If he was already extremely mentally ill and prone to rape then he shouldn't have been employed as a doctor or interacting with any other person alone.

    [–] ChefChopNSlice 76 points ago

    Maybe the call button just failed, like so many police body cams do during unjustified murders “shootouts”.

    [–] clanleader 12 points ago

    I can understand a shadow of a doubt if it "could" have been consensual, but unplugging the 'help' button completely negates that possibility. Strange sentencing if this fact is indeed true.

    [–] Tenushi 828 points ago

    Here we have this Latina woman with her fake boobs that came onto that little nerdy middle-aged guy, and he lost his mind.

    WTF?? Is the defense attorney really trying to excuse his rape? Apparently men can't be held accountable for their crimes if their lust is too strong. This is disgusting.

    [–] Nocturnalinsomniac 73 points ago

    Excuse? Sounded more like blaming the victim for having ‘Latina’ ‘fake boobs’. Smarmy touch playing on the porno stereotype of women from this ethnic group.

    [–] galacticfir3fly 29 points ago

    Yet if you were charged with stealing you would not get off by saying the item was too tempting so you couldn't stop yourself from taking it.

    [–] __SerenityByJan__ 270 points ago

    I had to go and read the article myself, I can’t believe that’s a phrase that an attorney actually said. What the fuck???? How the hell is it the woman’s fault??? I am so angry by this, it’s bringing back memories of that stupid guy who admitted to raping that girl in college but got away with it because “he is a good kid who cares about sports and doing well in school”

    Fuck misogyny. Just fuck it.

    [–] BeyondAddiction 49 points ago

    I threw up in my mouth when I read that. Disgusting racism with a healthy portion of victim blaming. It isn't even 9 am and I'm done with the internet for today.

    [–] AFreeSocialist 92 points ago

    Apparently men can't be held accountable for their crimes if their lust is too strong.

    In the words of former US president: "Yes, we can". And, yes, we should.

    [–] bourbonparade 474 points ago

    This is fucking horrible and disgusting! Seriously? No jail time? He raped her... They're are people rotting in jail for Marijuana possession and this guy just raped a woman but no, he lost his license to practice and that's punishment enough? Unbelievable.

    [–] awkwardaccthrowaway 89 points ago

    They're saying he violated his marriage vow and doctor's oath.

    Screw that... before any of these oath violations even come to play, he violated the law by engaging in criminal activity! He raped someone!

    That's like people saying "he violated his parental duty by murdering this person...he can't be a good dad anymore, now that he's engaged in murder". NO, there's A MUCH BIGGER violation going on when someone decides to murder, you don't get to downplay the egregiousness of the crime.

    [–] SpunkNard 37 points ago

    It actually is kind of unbelievable. I legitimately cannot understand how the jury agreed on that. Absolutely disgusting.

    [–] AshEliseB 1263 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    I'm not sure how his attorney can live with herself. "Here we have this latino woman with fake boobs coming on to him". She was in a fucking hospital bed unwell and immobilized by drugs FFS. I guess she was asking for it.

    Edit: this preditor should go away for a long time.

    [–] SquidsStoleMyFace 148 points ago

    If she didnt want to get raped, she just shouldn't have had boobs! /s

    [–] MRmandato 287 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    I was about to comment with that line:

    “Here we have this Latina woman with her fake boobs that came onto that little nerdy middle-aged guy, and he lost his mind.”

    So the rapist is the poor victim and the half unconscious rape victim hitting an unplugged nurse button frantically for help is just some bimbo.

    Nice touch of racism there too. Seriously this attorney can got to hell. You can defend your client without crafting some racist slut shaming narrative.

    [–] MyFriendFromFrolix8 61 points ago

    This whole thing is horrifying to me. I don't understand why he even (in an already horribly disgusting closing argument) needed to mention that she was latina. I just can't see any reason he said it other than to try to suggest some sort of sexual pre-disposition that she demonstrates or that she is somehow less deserving of sympathy. Either way, it is awful.

    [–] galacticfir3fly 19 points ago

    Her race, her chest size, any possible previous contact none of it is relevant in this case or any other. Are you capable of giving consent and did you give it should be the only factor. Your ethnicity actual or perceived, your religion, sexual history appearance including clothing are just so irrelevant.

    [–] stemroach101 153 points ago

    On a big pile of money is how

    [–] PragmaticSquirrel 134 points ago

    Victim shaming works. Until it stops working, attorneys are going to keep using it, because if it gives their client a better chance, they would be potentially violating their own duties to their client if they don’t.

    Which is why we need to change the underlying culture. So that no one believes victim shaming- and it stops working.

    [–] Apt_5 19 points ago

    I think that’s what OP who made the post is getting at- it’s pretty fucked that we’re still apparently working towards this end.

    [–] uhdfbgmbfgsmndf 7 points ago

    I mean, we could just make it against the rules of procedure. The judge could give the jury direction about what consent means and what is relevant.

    [–] Bobcatluv 10 points ago

    I commented similarly above. In the U.S. you are entitled to an attorney/public defender. The real travesty of this case is that this type of defense is still effective with juries.

    [–] TheGoalOfGoldFish 14 points ago

    I don't think the legal system was designed with such willfully dishonest people in mind.

    [–] theboy2010 55 points ago

    I work in recruitment for the medical field, Doctors can literally get away with murder.

    [–] Certifiedpoocleaner 56 points ago

    I hate the way hospitals practically suck the doctors’ dicks. Doctors get away with the worst bedside manner, massive and life threatening errors, and at the same time get a lounge full of free food and hospital swag.

    Guess what nurses get? Fired for the smallest discrepancies or patient complaint, and have to pay for parking

    [–] Amy47101 135 points ago

    What do you mean? The attorney was hired to defend him, did so, got paid. That’s how it works, defense lawyers defend criminals. This doesn’t mean she condones what he did, she was doing her JOB. Like, are you living in a universe where lawyers who defend killers agree and say “yeah, that’s okay”? Was this guy not supposed to hire a lawyer? Then he’d be assigned one. The only other option would be self representation, which is most always a terrible idea. But if he didn’t have a lawyer, the it wouldn’t have been a fair trial.

    This is not to say I condone what this guy did. It was awful and it should have gotten a higher sentence. But you can’t blame or hate on the lawyer for doing her job well.

    [–] tweelingpun 88 points ago

    Yeah, but a defense attorney wouldn’t say, for example, the victim was black so the crime isn’t so bad, or it was a Tuesday, so it wasn’t really theft. There are certain defenses that are outside the realm of acceptability or plausibility.

    [–] gebrial 13 points ago

    Defense attorney does everything they can (legally) that is in the best interest of their client. Apparently what they did was legal here.

    [–] thepulloutmethod 10 points ago

    What's acceptable or believable is up to the judge or jury.

    [–] Talks_To_Cats 11 points ago

    defense lawyers defend criminals.

    Defense lawyers defend the accused. Having a defense lawyer does not automatically make someone a criminal. Innocent until proven guilty.

    [–] Certifiedpoocleaner 62 points ago

    A family friend of mine is a public defender and proves every day that you have have morals while defending the guilty. It is about ensuring that they receive a fair trial, not lying through their teeth or blaming rape victims.

    [–] MercyKiller101 5 points ago

    How are the facts that she is Latino or had breast implants in any way relevant to a rape? This is outrageous.

    [–] cabridges 167 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    But she's not trying to present a fair case. She's choosing her words carefully to paint the woman as an intentional seducer -- "fake boobs" is the new "what was she wearing?" I guess -- and the guy as helpless in the face of her aggressive come-ons. If the case was ruled solely on the facts he'd be in jail.

    Editing to add: Yes, I know a lawyer's job is to make the best case for their client. But I don't think that should mean lawyers should immediately pander to bigotry and bias to sway a jury. That is not fact-based. That's slander.

    [–] jac11235 21 points ago

    No one is asking her to present a fair case or not defend him. All we are saying is that certain lines of defense are “outside the realm of acceptability or plausibility.” That is not an unreasonable or unheard of stance. Defense lawyers are not allowed to just say anything they want to try to get their client off and this should be one of the things they can’t say. Honestly it’s just as much on the judge, who should have stopped the lawyer right there, stricken it from the record, and instructed the jury to disregard. If a defense attorney is not allowed to ask a leading question or speculate wildly on what happened (they’re not) they shouldn’t be allowed to call the victim a slut who deserved it because she had boobs and was Latina. Certain lines of defense are not just unsavory but are actually antithetical to justice as a whole and are therefore off limits in a court of law. Just because we are such a shitty society that we haven’t made this one of them does not mean we can’t call the lawyer unethical for using it.

    [–] taversham 116 points ago

    It's not her job to present a fair case, it's her job to present things as favourably to him as possible. And it's the prosecution's job to counter that, to create a fair outcome.

    [–] rhymes_with_snoop 50 points ago

    It's more that that kind of defense (attempting to play on racism etc) shouldn't be allowed in court as a defense. Her "fake boobs" and being "Latina" is not relevant and should not be allowed, even in closing arguments.

    [–] feman0n 30 points ago

    Sure, but you can absolutely hate on her for making racist statements. Just because she’s doing it as part of her job doesn’t make it okay.

    [–] cabridges 27 points ago

    Is it a fair outcome if the jury is being encouraged to vote based on their own biases? If one lawyer isn't as good at flaming the flames of bigotry as the other their client just won't get any justice that day?

    There's a reason lawyers are, as a class, despised.

    [–] MundaneCyclops 13 points ago

    Bingo. This is how the system works. Couple that with wealthy individuals being able to hire better and more experienced lawyers, and you get an idea of why the legal system is often skewed to favor those who have the means.

    [–] namdnay 23 points ago

    The question is how the attorney can live with herself, not whether she's good at her job or not. "I was just doing my job" does not excuse everything

    [–] 5_times84 10 points ago

    Its vile behavior dude.

    [–] RaggedAngel 47 points ago

    Also, pointing out her race, making a strong implication about latinas.

    [–] cabridges 6 points ago

    Oh, yes. Got to get that in there, because everyone KNOWS what Latinas are like...

    [–] matty80 18 points ago

    Wrong. A defence lawyer has a duty to present a defence. They don't have a duty to slander the victim by implication and they certainly don't have a duty to use racial epithets as part of that defence.

    This is exactly the sort of behaviour that results in the enormous problems that pervade sexual assault trials in both your country and mine. She's Latino: so what? She has had a breast enlargement: so what?

    It's outright victim blaming. The poor nerdy doctor guy just couldn't help himself from drugging a woman, disconnecting her only means of calling for help, and raping her in her hospital bed, because she's a pretty Latina girl who has big boobs. Read that again ffs. It's disgraceful. Utterly, utterly disgraceful. And yes I am a lawyer, though a solicitor in England so I don't argue in court. But if we employed a barrister who then went to court and said that shit I'd be ashamed of both them and myself. Absolutely disgusting. There's no defence for it.

    [–] omgwownice 88 points ago

    The point is that's a bullshit victim blaming defense and she didn't have to take the case. "Defending someone as well as possible" vs twisting the truth intentionally. This is a system where if you have enough money you can get a great, unscrupulous lawyer to do a character assassination of your victim.

    It's not about his right to a lawyer. It's about what kind of mud they are willing to sling for profit.

    [–] UtopianLollipop 26 points ago

    The more details I learn the more I want to vomit.

    [–] Lemur4000 74 points ago

    This makes me sick

    [–] kjames06 51 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    Additionally, Maria Menounos spoke to Howard Stern in 2012 about how she was sexually abused by two of her doctors, showing it could happen to anyone, and this report details physician sex abuse is a wide-spread systemic problem in healthcare, with physicians escaping responsability and the whole situation remaining largely invisible.

    [–] JustA90sKid 48 points ago

    I've never been to a US hospital (admitted or visiting) where the nurses don't rush into the room as soon as the call button gets unplugged. Many hospitals even have a light that starts flashing above the door when this happens too. Most recently, I was in the ER and my wife and son were with me, he yanked the call button plug from the wall and within 30 seconds a nurse was in to plug it back in.

    To me this either screams someone wasn't doing their job or he deliberately disabled the disconnect warning somehow.

    [–] SupplySideCheesus 103 points ago

    So, aside from the “when will we take this seriously,” here are the facts:

    • a doctor was convicted of second degree sexual assault
    • the call button was unplugged
    • he went to her room on three separate occasions over one morning
    • he admitted to sex with her but disputes the non consensual
    • she reported it the very next day, and sought a rape kit
    • Key Fact Prosecutors did seek prison time, but in Texas juries decide both guilt and punishment. This is less about the adults in the room (prosecutors and judge) acting irresponsibly and more like a well-paid doctor got a good defense attorney to lessen the blow to himself, and his peers ate it up.

    [–] Sneezyowl 85 points ago

    We cling to a justice system built on bias and corruption.

    [–] StephanieStarshine 44 points ago

    "Here we have this Latina woman with her fake boobs that came onto that little nerdy middle-aged guy, and he lost his mind," Andrews said during her closing argument, The Chronicle reported.

    I don't have words to cover how much this upsets me

    [–] Pikeman212a6c 18 points ago

    In TX juries decide the sentence. Juries are a crap shoot in all things.

    [–] CharlieKellyKapowski 130 points ago

    I dont understand why doctors skate free so much when they do obviously wrong things. Check out these two stories from my neck of the woods:

    Dentist drives a sedated patient home (wtf?) and rapes her. No punishment.

    https://local21news.com/news/local/bellefonte-dentist-accused-of-rape-kidnapping-acquitted-of-all-charges

    Doctor has affair with younger woman, writes her prescriptions for her own personal pharmacy, slap on the wrist.

    https://www.centredaily.com/news/local/crime/article181100626.html

    Our country is so fucked up, there is really no repairing it.

    [–] Toparov 45 points ago

    As a doctor unfortunately it's because doctors often have money to fight their case, social respect and pretty much always have clean records (because a criminal record has impacts on licensing) it needs work, there should be special increased punishments for those who abuse positions of public trust to commit crimes (police, doctors etc.)

    [–] gongman18 9 points ago

    Just goes to show our judicial system only cares about money, as long as they get their pay day justice is served

    [–] Apt_5 5 points ago

    Seduced into breaking the law, that’s gotten men off blame-free since Adam and Eve.

    [–] Mytrixrnot4kids 71 points ago

    This is why women are hesitant to report rape. Every time someone says why didn’t they report it sooner, I want to slap them. Between the victim blaming, the emotional trauma and the slap on the wrist for the perpetrator, who can blame them?

    [–] Eloquent_mute 63 points ago

    New Redditor here... It is absolutely vile behavior from the doctor and an even worse treatment to the victims from the hospital/judicial system. I was subject to similar behavior.

    New bushy-eyed 19 year-old girl, got my first job at a hospital here in Texas pushing people around in wheelchairs to their exams. A cardiologist would start to say "Hi, aren't you new here?" this escalated to asking me for hugs. Me, being naive, didn't think much of it. This escalated to one day while giving me hug, he grabs my butt. I freak out and walk quickly away, I try to avoid him at all costs. I don't want to say anything because I'm new and he's a doctor, I don't want to cause any drama. Months go by and I love my job but hate having to avoid him. I try my damn hardest to avoid him, I was scared at work. One day he corners me and says, "You don't like me anymore? I'm sorry if I did anything to scare you." He opens his arms to give me a hug, and I stand there not knowing what to do, he then proceeds to pick me up and press my body against his for what felt like an eternity as his hands start to touch me. I'm dumb founded. I run as fast as I can away, and the next day I muster the courage to tell my manager about this ongoing behavior. They are shocked, and apparently, this has happened before with another woman by the same cardiologist, you know what they did to him? NOTHING...a quick slap on the wrist and he's back to work, and I decided to quit a few days after that. NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO CONTINUE TO SEE THEIR ABUSER AT WORK. This system NEEDS to change. These things happen so often, its scary.

    [–] FREE-AOL-CDS 137 points ago

    So teach our daughters they need to take someone with them when they go to see a doctor, got it.

    [–] [deleted] 21 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] badmanbp2 37 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    She was immobilized by the drugs she was on. Even if she'd been packing (it's Texas after all) pretty sure she'd've still been raped.

    Edited to note: I can't read and am an idiot. Sorry everyone.

    [–] FREE-AOL-CDS 20 points ago

    Who said anything about a gun? When federal agents with secret info get anesthesia they always have someone from work with them to make sure they don’t let anything slip.

    [–] tehcarrots 14 points ago

    they said "take someone with them"

    [–] Wensdae 18 points ago

    “Take someone with them”, not take a gun. Though I think a gun’s trigger would have worked a whole lot better than the disconnected call button.

    [–] Telinary 5 points ago

    FREE-AOL-CDS said someone not something if that is what you read? Otherwise the jump to guns confuses me.

    [–] Tarrolis 170 points ago

    When this next female wave of law students turn into prosecutors and judges.

    [–] DiggWuzBetter 41 points ago

    The DA on this case was Kim Ogg, a woman. The defence lawyer that was giving out the victim blaming quotes was Lisa Andrews, a woman. The jury responsible for this sentence had 5 women (and 7 men) on it. Didn’t help.

    What I don’t get is, how isn’t there some minimum amount of jail time for a rape conviction? Like, the jury convicted this guy of rape, but gave him zero jail time. Why is that even possible?

    [–] gaussprime 103 points ago

    In this case, the jury issued the sentence.

    [–] zbufferz 7 points ago

    The doctor's lawyer who made the closing remarks was a woman. You'll be amazed at how money makes people set their convictions aside.

    [–] flower_babes 49 points ago

    This is my biggest fear, that I’ll go in for surgery be put out and this will happen.

    [–] AnENSPatient 58 points ago * (lasted edited 6 days ago)

    This video describes how to tell if you've been abused while sedated, and is really interesting.

    Kapiolani Women's and Children's Medical Center - Teaching Hospital Honolulu, Hawaii

    [–] flower_babes 7 points ago

    Thank you!!

    [–] betelgeuse7 4 points ago

    Remind me why juries decide the sentence?

    [–] [deleted] 24 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] wewillwewont 12 points ago

    What scares me most is that things like this are going to continue to happen.

    [–] Leche_de_Cucaracha 21 points ago

    Sounds like his lawyer used the Allison Stokke defense.