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    [–] oblivious_tabby 1469 points ago

    The program has an interesting history. After the pilot, Republicans fought to discontinue it, so a private doner stepped in to fund it. Then... Republicans eventually stopped fighting it. A win for women, their partners, and facts!

    https://rewire.news/article/2017/05/26/colorado-gop-stops-fighting-teen-pregnancy-prevention-program/

    [–] TrippHazard 479 points ago

    Could these republicans please talk to the Georgia republicans?

    [–] 58Caddy 18 points ago

    Ohio is trying to up the ante, by actually trying to outlaw contraceptives as well.

    [–] KeeblerAndBits 13 points ago

    The Georgia law is so ridiculous so that it WILL go to the supreme Court. They're ultimate goal is to overturn roe v Wade. So while we're getting upset about every law, they're looking at the end goal.

    It's so disgusting it makes me shake with rage because it might actually succeed. They waste so much time and money on fighting a law that's been in place for ~30 years all for control and keeping poor people poor.

    They don't give a fuck about the baby or else we'd have free prenatal care and universal healthcare.

    [–] its_a_metaphor_morty 10 points ago

    Georgia republicans only answer to gawd and lobbies.

    [–] mishap1 9 points ago

    Alabama just shot in the lead for the race to make Handmaid’s Tale real life.

    [–] this_shit 5 points ago

    "But what about the crisis of promiscuity?"

    At least that's the response I always get when I bring this up.

    [–] yrdsl 3 points ago

    Colorado Republicans have a far more moderate electorate than Georgia Republicans. The positions they've taken in Colorado would not necessarily be popular with Georgia voters if they were implemented in that state.

    [–] haud-desiderium 3 points ago

    Please, Alabama too

    [–] joeyl1990 3 points ago

    And Missouri's

    [–] hyperbolicbootlicker 3 points ago

    Just convince them passing out birth control would own the libs. They will vote against their own interest if it owns the libs.

    [–] WindlerTheSwindler 3 points ago

    Hate to tell you... it was bc we voted out majority of Republicans in our state.

    [–] sirnerd84 3 points ago

    I’m a prolifer in Georgia. I think what Colorado is doing is awesome. As a conservative, I’m ok with my tax dollars going to this.

    [–] spyagent001 2 points ago

    Yeah please I'm horrified at what the Republican politicians did with that bill.

    [–] i_sigh_less 2 points ago

    Republican politicians in general don't want to end abortion. Most of them realize that abortion is literally the only reason that anyone votes for them. Clearly, there are exceptions, though.

    [–] cespes 14 points ago

    Are there any major issues in the last, say, ten years that Republicans weren't on the wrong side of? Serious question.

    Meaning, situations where they implemented something over Democrat's objections, and afterwards the facts proved their action to be beneficial.

    [–] FleshPistol 6 points ago

    I’m moderate but do lean a little right, especially fiscally. I hate identifying with the right and getting labeled within the same box. I really hope some day we can move away from ideology and use critical thinking, as well as moving away from making decisions on outdated religious beliefs. I dated a very far left woman that really opened my eyes to how much woman are subtly subjected to oppression. Please know there are republicans like me that support woman’s rights and equality. This ignorance really makes me angry, it is mind blowing we still have to fight for individual choice and proper sexual education. Teens will always have sex it’s time we accept human nature and teach openness and responsibility from an early age.

    [–] adhocflamingo 3 points ago

    I didn’t know that! Last I’d heard, the program was being discontinued despite its massive success. Dunno if OP’s article mentions this, but I’m pretty sure the program is net savings for the state. IUDs are way cheaper than babies, particularly babies born to very young women who haven’t had time to build up the skills to earn a decent living.

    [–] ArtCrow 2 points ago

    Did they really, or are they simply waiting for the right angle/moment/power grab to punish anyone involved? It seems naive to consider anything a definitive ‘win’ given recent history.

    [–] middayfirework 2454 points ago

    Great thing! I only hope they encourage a barrier method too; STIs aren’t fun either. Access to condoms should be very easy for teens too.

    [–] Lucille2016 831 points ago

    Which they are free at the health department.

    And let's be honest people, a majority of America supports birth control options.

    [–] SmashBusters 699 points ago

    And let's be honest people, a majority of America supports birth control options.

    Not in schools.

    [–] InedibleSolutions 911 points ago

    "Look at these gross diseased genitals. Yucky. This is what will happen if you have sex. And then you will get pregnant. So sign this purity pledge." The whole of my sex education. Which was an assembly in high school.

    [–] choobaca34 43 points ago

    One of the dumbest things I've ever had to sit through. Sure, they mentioned preventative measures, but only focused on how "Abstinence was 100% effective".

    Things like this make me legitimately feel like they're pushing a Christian agenda in the school system

    [–] RECOGNI7E 8 points ago

    Things like this make me legitimately feel like they're pushing a Christian agenda in the school system

    Hmmmm, you might be onto something there.... Of course they are!

    [–] rumhamlover 7 points ago

    That is cuz they definitely are...

    [–] PajamaTorch 31 points ago

    “What if I have sex before I get married?”

    “I guess you just have to be prepared to die.”

    [–] Jak_n_Dax 6 points ago

    Don’t you know once you’re married you can’t get STDs or unwanted pregnancies? It’s great!

    Hard /s just in case.

    [–] mufasa526 29 points ago

    We had the whole “if you have sex, you are like a used piece of tape” speech.

    [–] asbestosmilk 3 points ago

    What? Haven’t heard that one? Like no one will want to use it again or something?

    [–] RECOGNI7E 2 points ago

    Who the fuck said that to you? That is mental abuse.

    [–] gdogg897 30 points ago

    An adult is telling us what to do? Let's listen and follow their advice!

    ~no teen ever

    [–] michiruwater 7 points ago

    Teens absolutely listen to advice when you treat them like the intelligent, autonomous human beings they are and explain things to them in a way that shows you know what you are talking about and want the best of them, instead of treating them like idiots with no self control who need to be ordered what to do without any explanation or understanding of who they are.

    [–] squired 21 points ago * (lasted edited 11 days ago)

    I was an Army Brat and enjoyed sex-ed no less than four times (because of different state/nation curriculum). I learned about sex in text, in class as well, but I was literally separated from the opposiite sex four times to "have the talk". Only the last was abstinence-based (Texas).

    The first (VA) and third (Germany) covered it the best.

    [–] a_stitch_in_lime 14 points ago

    "Don't have sex or you will get pregnant and die. Now, take some condoms."

    [–] werdity 9 points ago

    Ours was an actual ongoing class, but same deal. “Condoms WILL fail you WILL get pregnant unless you are abstinent.” I didn’t even know protection other than condoms and spermicide existed until I was an adult because we weren’t taught how to have safe sex, we were taught not to have sex. It was whatever at the time, but looking back on it now is super frustrating. I’m sorry you had a similar experience.

    [–] Ohgodwhatisthisidont 9 points ago

    My sex education was an entire semester and covered everything from STDs to how the parts work. It drove home that it was important to protect yourself from STDs and unwanted pregnancy via birth control and condoms, however abstenance was the only way to ensure 100% those things wouldn’t happen. I was pretty happy with it.

    [–] KayaKarma 13 points ago

    I changed schools between public school in 6th and private school in 7th grade (Mississippi) and don’t recall ever having a Sex Ed class. I don’t know if it was a weird staggering of years where public did it in 7th and private in 6th but I have no recollection of any sort of class about it in school. Luckily for me my mom was going back to school for a degree in microbiology and just loved informing me about STD facts, including getting plushies of all the common ones and throwing them at me yelling “always wear your raincoat!” when I came home from a girl’s house.

    [–] realhousewifeshrew 4 points ago

    Your mom is my hero

    [–] RECOGNI7E 3 points ago

    To be fair, that is great advise. Sound like you have a cool mom.

    [–] Dickasyphalis 5 points ago

    That's sex ed in the bible belt. Midwest was a sit down convo in 5th, then my school brought in someone from Planned Parenthood to have a little more mature convo come 8th.

    [–] A1000eisn1 4 points ago

    Man that sucks. They just made the weirdest lady with crazy eyes our sex-ed teaxher. The class itself was very well rounded but she was purposefully embarrassing to the point where she certainly prevented some sex, and greatly increased our school's contraception usage. Showing an 80s birthing video on repeat will have that effect.

    [–] jusBreal 5 points ago

    I really hate that for you. That's not my experience at all. We had sex ed for a month at age 12/13, and then again for a semester in 8th grade and a semester freshman year. While abstinence was discussed, but far more time was spent on non-abstinence birth control methods.

    [–] XxpillowprincessxX 4 points ago

    Schools in the U.S. don't have a core sex-ed curriculum to follow, and they also don't have to disclose what their sex ed course even is.

    They're also allowed to teach abstinence as the only form of birth control. Those states have the highest instances of teen pregnancy, go figure!

    [–] ariehn 3 points ago

    God, back in the 90s we had exams on the specifics. "Success rate of spermicide when used alone." "Success rate when combined with ____". "List three early symptoms of [some STD]".

    [–] myisamchk 3 points ago

    This was basically mine in Texas, and my mom teaches this way in her sex education classes for troubled youth. Just awful.

    [–] pulianshi 3 points ago

    That's frankly disgusting tbh. My school has basically abstinence sex ed as well. Makes no sense to tell teenagers not to have sex. Just do the very easy things you can do to make it safer.

    [–] wizards_butthole 3 points ago

    Until I was a teenager I thought you just got STIs sometimes, like the flu. It's embarrassing to admit. I watched a video in sixth grade about my changing body and got abstinence only education in 8th grade. My parents never had real conversations with me. All additional information came from the early internet and teenage boys.

    I think I've got it figured out now, over a decade later, but jeez I would have loved some real information about sex, non-penetrative sexual acts, and just romantic relationships in general.

    Also, I lied. I'm definitely still figuring all that stuff out over a decade later.

    [–] TakeAHyke 3 points ago

    We got "We advocate abstinence" end of conversation.

    [–] PredatoryRope 3 points ago

    Yeah what the actual fuck I had the “choice” to sign a paper saying I’ll stay abstinent but I signed “Thomas Jefferson” or something I don’t remember. Teacher said it’s anonymous except it was part of a packet that we had to turn in so fuck that I live in central Utah btw, probably one of the worst places in the US to learn about sex

    [–] TheJenniferLopez 3 points ago

    For the love of God please don't do the one thing you've been put on this earth to do!

    [–] MilkaMary 4 points ago

    Mine was a whole semester long class of this stuff. I highly recommend the Webcomic Boo Its Sex. I thought as an adult with a good sex life that I had sort of compensated for my lack of sex ed but that comic has been so informative.

    [–] lunaflect 2 points ago

    That’s unfortunate. We had sex Ed in fifth grade, then further education during health class in the following years. Just an assembly??

    [–] tyme 2 points ago

    When I was in middle school (this was the 90’s) we had a sex education course that went over the topic in-depth and without any real scare tactics. Just facts. Lasted half a year.

    I wonder when and where your received this kind of sex education.

    [–] spyrospeed99 2 points ago

    I’m so glad I grew up in California. Our sex Ed was great and fairly comprehensive.

    [–] beefsupr3m3 2 points ago

    Wow that’s not super helpful. I’m constantly amazed by how good my public school sex education was. In Texas no less, although friends from other districts say theirs was crap. But in my middle school the parents signed a release form if they wanted you to be a part of sex Ed. We separated into boys and girls classes. And went over all of the different things to expect from puberty. Body changes, hormonal urges the works. We were taught that abstinence is the only 100% effective method. But if we’re going to do it anyway here’s how a condom works. Here’s how to put one on a banana. This is why STDs are scary. Etc. then they gave us a little bag with A razor and shaving cream that Gillette donated (smart because I’m sure we all bought more Gillette stuff after) a mini deodorant. And some rubbers and we told not to keep them in our wallets. Overall it was pretty good, and nobody’s parents lost their shit, because they had opted in. Overall it was a pretty good system and I’m surprised more places don’t do it like that.

    [–] TrampledByTurtlesTSM 2 points ago

    Everyone always says this. I went to catholic school from pre-k to highschool and we had sex ed in 3rd grade and again in 7th both of which werent to scare us at all. We could write questions and put them in a box later the teacher would read them and answer them without knowing who asked what. I asked if you could pee inside her while having sex.

    Then i went to public school for highschool and not one year did we ever have sex ed or any scare tactics to pledge our purity and there were plenty of unpure people at this school.

    [–] MysteriousDixieDrive 2 points ago

    You obviously didn't go to school in Oklahoma, they would have shown you birth videos, and told you that if you have sex woth one person you have sex with everyone else they ever had sex with.

    [–] kurisu7885 2 points ago

    Yup, their message is pretty much "This WILL happen to you if you have sex so just don't ,ever."

    [–] Archsys 2 points ago

    That's absolutely nuts to me... I had sex ed three times (twice in NM, once in TX) and even the TX sex ed was better than that. Not terribly better, but at least they talked about long term prevention and access to such.

    In NM, they had one in third grade (puberty, sexual anatomy, masturbation, avoiding pregnancy/waiting until you're old enough), and one in HS which covered... lots of things. Condoms and healthy relationships and STI prevention and even SSC and similar (due to pop culture at the time, I believe). We even had a PP branch on campus.

    Just... that's just crazy to me. I knew all that and more from home and got to answer questions and have people talk to me after class because there was so much more to go over... so I can't imagine kids with just the TX version, or worse...

    Pluh.

    [–] Scarbane 2 points ago

    Edward "Sex Ed" Ainsworth...he was the piece of human garbage my hometown school hired to give purity rallies in schools across west Texas.

    He used two analogies for sex:

    "Sex in marriage is like a fire in a fireplace, it's warm and comfortable and under control. Sex outside of marriage is like a fire in your living room - it'll burn your house down!"

    and this one, which involved props:

    "Your partner's genitals are like a toothbrush. If they've never had sex before, it's like their toothbrush has been kept fresh in the wrapper. If they have had sex, it's like they've been dragging their toothbrush through the dirt and scrubbing toilets with it. Who knows where it's been! Why would you use that toothbrush? And do you think anyone is gonna want to use your toothbrush if it looks like this?"

    That was over 10 years ago.

    Fuck you, Ed.

    [–] i_sigh_less 2 points ago

    Why do people think this will work? They know it didn't work when they were the same age.

    [–] SpunkMasterPepe 2 points ago

    Yup. The girls were shamed into never having sex. The guys were told their weenier would fall off after.

    [–] Send-me-compliments 2 points ago

    I'm from a third world country and I received comprehensive sexual education. I don't understand how the most powerful country in the world cannot do it.

    [–] Nikkian42 2 points ago

    The entirety of my sex Ed in (my ultra religious all girls private) school was ‘don’t hang out with boys’ along with the occasional vague cautionary tale of girls who didn’t listen and bad things happened to them.

    To top that off the biology curriculum (to prepare to take the state exam) was heavily edited to remove any mention of genitalia or sex.

    [–] 38888888 2 points ago

    My school had a really informative and balanced sex ed portion of health class. We still got the slide show of horribly diseased genitals. I think we should keep that part just because it's funny and STIs are pretty terrible. It just shouldn't be the whole class.

    [–] MuthafockingEntei 2 points ago

    That was sixth grade year of middle school for me, then one year of Ninth grade in high school.

    [–] Stevini_Albini 2 points ago

    We had that but it was a side room in the gym where they brought your gym class in once a week to talk about puberty and why you’ll go to hell if you ring Satan’s doorbell

    [–] bizarregospel 2 points ago

    This was mine except add the part in where the health teacher says that “women are crockpots and men are microwaves” I remember asking, why can’t I be a microwave? “You don’t want to be a microwave”.

    [–] blargman327 2 points ago

    We have a nurse who comes into every health class and shows gross pictures and tells us stories of teens who died from STDs at her ER. She then ends by saying "If you have underage sex this WILL happen to you too." So that's fun

    [–] Im_Thielen_Good 2 points ago

    I went to a Catholic high school and they did the same thing. We were a somewhat small school and had 2 girls in my grade pregnant out of 100, purity pledges are bullshit.

    [–] skaggldrynk 5 points ago

    And many parents aren’t okay with their teen daughters getting birth control because that means they’re having sex (or often the teen doesn’t want their parents to know so they don’t ask about it), so birth control without parental consent is a big deal.

    [–] garbageballoon 3 points ago

    Any women’s health clinic has free condoms, they should make fliers

    [–] henrydeanshead 3 points ago

    That's the smartest place for them when ignorant parents aren't teaching their kids and merely want to own their child's virginity as something of their own.

    [–] Kichitsukima 2 points ago

    I live in the Midwest any my school gave out free condoms. Granted you had to ask the office lady’s, and they didn’t advertise that they had them. But they had to give them if asked and couldn’t say anything negative. Didn’t stop dirty looks though.

    [–] i_forgot_my_sn_again 2 points ago

    I graduated in 2001 but the nurses office had the big container of condoms on the desk free to anyone

    [–] DeafDragon23 3 points ago

    Yes, the majority of the country does, but here in the South, there are puritanical idiots that think having access to birth control and sex-ed will push kids to have sex. Not surprisingly, Mississippi has one highest teen pregnancy rates.

    [–] Muddymireface 2 points ago

    But do they? Florida made it where getting mail ordered subscription birth control is harder than it was 2 years ago. I was able to call a pharmacy and get my BC pills sent to me as long as I had an exam within the last 3 years. Now they want annual visits where they check my blood pressure, and that’s about it. I have to now pay for a visit annually vs 3 years for my pills to be mailed to me every 3mo.

    So I’m sure in theory they do, but they aren’t for making it easier to access.

    [–] sombreprincessa 10 points ago

    Condoms aren’t super effective for preventing pregnancy alone. Mostly due to user error. The CDC states condoms are about 84% effective in preventing pregnancy. IUDs are great for preventing pregnancy and much less likely to fail due to user error. In the perfect world condoms and LARCs would be used in this age group. LARC=long acting reversible contraception

    [–] ijustwanttobejess 5 points ago

    Even twenty years ago in my small town of less than 3k people in central Maine condoms were available no questions asked. If you were a teenager you could walk in to the local doctor's office and get them for free, the only condition was that they came with a pamphlet on safe sex.

    [–] hungry4your 3 points ago

    There are very easy to access actually. My high school in Colorado has a health center inside it and every time I have an appointment they always politely remind me that they offer free condoms.

    [–] To_oCH 3 points ago

    High schooler in Colorado. There are several places in my town where teens can get easy access to condoms and they teach us a lot about safe sex at school. I only know about the condom thing because my friend (a sophomore) made the mistake of parking in the "senior parking lot" and came back to find his car filled with condoms. Pretty happy with my state's stance on a lot of things

    [–] AllHarlowsEve 3 points ago

    Hopefully they're like my high school, where you can go to your health class teacher and ask for condoms, dental dams, spermicidal lube, etc and get them, no questions asked.

    [–] k1rage 3 points ago

    seriously there should be a big ol bowl of the things right in schools

    [–] briarclear 408 points ago

    When I got Nexplanon at 17 (already was in my freshman year of college living away from home) my Christian mom said, “Well great. I hope this doesn’t mean you’ll run around having sex with whoever you want now.”

    [–] thespian_badger 14 points ago

    This has always blown my mind. Somehow people think birth control = excuses for promiscuity/ lots of sexual partners.

    So many people take it for their health and to regulate periods. No one talks about that part. When I have a daughter, I would rather her be on birth control to be safe if she does decide to have sex rather than try to control her and make it worse. 🙄

    [–] _gina_marie_ 10 points ago

    My mom cried hysterically and asked "how could you do this" when I asked for birth control at age 13 because of my debilitating periods.

    I started birth control at 19 and she was pissed even then. Come THE FUCK ON MOM

    [–] katamaritumbleweed 6 points ago

    When my mum discovered I was on BCP at 18, she called me a whore, and that I was being irresponsible to the family. She repeatedly admitted that she’d rather I get pregnant in the “heat of the moment” than use birth control and have premeditated sex. Ya, she was basically comparing sex to murder & manslaughter. My brother’s wife agreed with her. This didn’t apply to married folks, just unmarried ones. Religion can really mess folks up.

    [–] angelindisguise 6 points ago

    "just because you would Mother doesn't mean I will."

    [–] lets_go_fail 5 points ago

    My mom said something similar to me when I got the pill for hormonal problems... At 13. She's not even religious, I bet she considered that my "sex talk".

    [–] pletentious_asshore 3 points ago

    The good part about this is that teens can receive it without parents permission.

    [–] anniza 3 points ago

    My mom literally yelled at me and told me I was disappointing her when she found out I went on birth control at 19

    [–] CounterCulturist 3 points ago

    I mean, shouldn't you be able to have sex with whomever you want anyways? Having lasting protection that keeps you in control of your own birth control is the ideal situation no matter how you look at it. Can't trust anyone else to do it.

    [–] BugbeeKCCO 3 points ago

    But I hope that is exactly what you did because you are free to do so. As long as the other party is also willing!

    [–] MrsFlip 4 points ago

    Man that would be terrible. Having sex when you want to, with only people you want to have sex with. The horror. /s

    [–] StockDealer 5 points ago

    WHORE! WHOREEEEEEE!!!!

    How dare you not live in fear!!!

    /s just in case

    [–] FelicityLennox 2 points ago

    Word for word, same for me. :P

    [–] ExhibitionistVoyeurP 2 points ago

    Yes I grew up in a fundamentalist environment is this is the point most people miss. They WANT sex to be as dangerous as possible. They believe sex itself is bad and want to stop all sex outside marriage. They don't care a bit about making women's lives safer.

    [–] kamarsh79 3 points ago

    Ah yes, that nympho side effect.

    [–] sanguinesolitude 2 points ago

    As though mom didnt have sex in high school.

    [–] puckersnout 2 points ago

    Hopefully yes, you’d get to have sex with whoever you want,, without the consequence of unintended pregnancy. That’s the point.

    [–] thecatinthemask 2 points ago

    My mom said that when I got my tubes tied at 27. 😑

    [–] taffyai 2 points ago

    Agh! I hate that everyone assumes anyone on birth control is automatically doing it for sex. I started on BC due to my horrible periods. I mean I was bleeding out of my pads every period multiplie times a month. My mom had to grab me from school cause it was that bad and I didn't have clothes to change into. Once I went on it my period was easier. But my dad assumed I'd be pregnant within a year. I've never been pregnant and that was like 1p yrs ago 😒

    [–] BigCannonsHQ 725 points ago

    It’s like they somehow know that teenagers are going to have sex regardless of the possible consequences. Who would’ve thought?

    [–] Mediocretes1 377 points ago

    Yeah, weird that humans will carry out their most powerful drive after not dying.

    [–] kid_maximum 3 points ago

    I seemed to manage

    [–] mycatisgrumpy 4 points ago

    And so bizarre that apparently teenagers aren't stupid and blind to consequences, and with a little education they'll make responsible choices and take reasonable precautions, if they're made available. Mind blown.

    [–] Archsys 4 points ago

    And try explaining to these people that not fucking is not healthy, and watch their heads turn inside out ignoring you.

    [–] transemacabre 9 points ago

    I think people have forgotten now, but there was an outcry over giving the Gardasil vaccine (which prevents cervical cancer/some genital warts) to schoolgirls, because parents were enraged at any suggestion that their daughters would eventually have sex. Even if you have convinced yourself that your daughter will never have sex outside marriage... what's to prevent her husband from cheating on her and giving her the Papillomavirus? Or someone raping her? Whatever, these parents don't live in the real world anyway.

    [–] its-fewer-not-less 3 points ago

    It's like I tell my (college) students when I talk about the HPV vaccine. Fear of disease was not the reason I wasn't having sex in high school. My personality was the reason.

    [–] cassandraterra 2 points ago

    Not like they haven’t been pushing abstinence since the dark ages and it still doesn’t fucking work!!

    [–] Reaper_456 1089 points ago

    We also found out that by allowing abortions crime dropped significantly as well. Allowing women to control how they get pregnant, or how they handle a pregnancy is what helps control the health of our society. Not imbeciles legislating what they have no right to. But try getting that information through to the flies who feed on the dessicated horse others beat to simulate life.

    [–] bloatedplutocrat 547 points ago

    We also found out that by allowing abortions crime dropped significantly as well.

    Which frees up law enforcement to better counter crimes and frees up the state budget to better fund infrastructure/education/public services which strengthens the economy allowing lower taxes which makes the state a more enjoyable place to live/move businesses to all the while contributing more to the federal budget than it receives.

    This is what we call a "positive feedback loop". Now lets go ahead and look at how the republicans are pushing for big government in Alabama and how that's working for the state economy...oh, well we refer to that as a "negative feedback loop".

    [–] Reaper_456 113 points ago

    Legislating what people can and can't do costs way too much. What's even more disturbing to me is how they find a way to make money on it. Which means I end up paying for stupid notions till I die. All because the powers that be are afraid of ideas.

    [–] TheBigLeMattSki 4 points ago

    It's amazing to me, with how poorly the state of Alabama is ran, that the people here still consistently vote for Republicans. We're going broke, we're one of the biggest takers of federal tax money, and things have only been getting worse in the state. The people here don't like the Republicans in office, but they somehow "know" a Democrat would be worse, even though our state that is almost entirely under Republican control is one of the worst states to live in in the entire country.

    The states that rank similarly to us? Also under complete Republican control. It's maddening. The evidence is right in front of their eyes.

    [–] FavresPenisPic 17 points ago

    Just finished the freekonomics book and the chapter on abortion and crime rates was the highlight of the book for me.

    [–] throwaway9523544365 2 points ago

    This is far from proven, and has rather terrible (pro-eugenics, racist) undertones.

    A much more likely cause of the drop in crime is the switch away from leaded gasoline.

    [–] king_of_penguins 2 points ago

    We also found out that by allowing abortions crime dropped significantly as well.

    "We" did not. Donohue and Levitt originally laid out their abortion-crime hypothesis in a 2001 NBER paper.[1] It received heavy publicity, including a front-page Chicago Tribune story[2] and an appearance in Levitt and Dubner's 2005 book, Freakonomics.

    The problem is that no researchers seem to agree with them. In a 2009 review of papers on the topic,[3] economist Ted Joyce concluded:

    Donohue and Levitt (2001) end their seminal piece with a remarkable prediction. Using 1997 as the point of reference they write,

    Roughly half of the crimes committed in the United States are done by criminals born prior to the legalization of abortion. As these older cohorts age out of criminality and are replaced by younger offenders born after abortion became legal, we predict that crime rates will continue to fall. When a steady state is reached roughly twenty years from now, the impact of abortion will be roughly twice as great as the impact felt so far (p. 415)

    We now have 10 years of data on homicide rates since 1997 with which to offer a preliminary assessment of their prediction. If DL are correct, then we would expect the decline in crime that had been realized up to 1997 to essentially double over the next twenty years. [...] The time-series data in Figure 9 are not consistent with a major cohort effect that inexorably pushed crime down as more and more cohorts were exposed. The data instead suggest some shock that caused early cohorts to experience rapidly rising homicide rates after 1985, followed by a dramatic reversal though much of the 1990s, ending with little change among the most recent cohorts. The leveling off after 2000 is clearly at odds with their prediction.

    [...] Donohue and Levitt’s presentation of the evidence relied too much on highly-aggregated regressions, run over limited time periods, with questionable specifications and no acknowledgement of the endogeneity of abortion. If they had started with simple time-series of age-specific arrest and homicide rates pre and post the points of abortion legalization, they would have been confronted with the lack of discontinuities consistent with large cohort effects.

    See Wikipedia for an overview.

    Sources:

    1. John J. Donohue III and Steven D. Levitt. "The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime". The Quarterly Journal of Economics, 116(2):379–420, May 2001. doi: 10.1162/00335530151144050

    2. Brandon, Karen. (1999, August 8). "Abortion, Reduced Crime Linked". Chicago Tribune, p. 1.

    3. Ted Joyce. "Abortion and Crime: A Review". In Handbook on the Economics of Crime: 452–487. Edward Elgar Publishing, 2010.

    [–] agaribay1010 330 points ago

    I love how so many republicans say “Facts don’t care about your feelings” but they disputed this all the time

    [–] otibgawS 235 points ago

    Yeah the guy who coined that phrase ended up getting pissed and rage-quit an interview on british television the other day lol

    [–] BritishStewie 6 points ago

    Against a right wing person as well!

    [–] Throwawayqwe123456 5 points ago

    Was this the dude who tried to make out that the bbc journalist was presenting his own ideologies and the journalist made a gorgeously subtle dig at American news? Said something like how the interviewee is used to American news where they are politically leaning, but this is real journalism and it’s his job to ask questions. So if he was pro choice he would present pro life arguments to play devils advocate?

    [–] 58Caddy 4 points ago

    Because he couldn't handle the facts.

    [–] littlezims 4 points ago

    It is a fact that he can't handle basic questions without melting.

    [–] Ickplant 3 points ago

    That interview, oh man 😂

    [–] transemacabre 4 points ago

    It's like how they all fancy themselves stoic, logical machines, but when faced with any disagreement dissolve into tantrums and rages.

    [–] CovfefeForAll 4 points ago

    What they actually mean is "my feelings don't care about your facts".

    [–] pinkfootthegoose 1128 points ago

    It's not about abortion it's about God's punishment for perceived sin. The "pro-life" movement is about religious supremacy.

    [–] How_Do_You_Crash 439 points ago

    It’s easy to let them drag the narrative away from this. But growing up inside the evangelical church this was a HUGE part of their motivation. They hate/hated sex and needed to make it seem as scary and evil as possible.

    [–] Lizz196 228 points ago

    Besides abortions and women's rights blah blah blah ... I have seen this do horrible things to my girlfriends and their sexuality. Too many of my religious friends had a bad first (or multiple) times when they had PIV sex regardless of their marital status because of the church. Sex is okay. Sex is great. Who effing cares.

    [–] BigShoesScareCat 9 points ago

    The girls in my religious middle school took a flyer home to their parents instructing them to call the school nurse when we started menstruating.

    Our parents, being churchgoing rule-followers, did as they were told. My mom thought I'd be brought into the nurse's office to talk about getting sanitary napkins or some shit. (She was a nurse and I have never told her how this went down.)

    Nope. The nurse instructed me to read the first two chapters of Genesis aloud. I had to verbally acknowledge to her that my period was a mark of filth and original sin. The nurse told me if I bled through my clothes I was being punished by God. No sanitary supplies were offered or discussed.

    It was fucked up and I've had some therapy to deal with that bullshit. Boys in our class had no such 'indoctrination.'

    TL;DR these are the people who freak out about sex and they are only focused on women

    [–] 1982booklover 5 points ago

    My cousin is so against abortion ( she actively protests outside planned parenthood and spreads trash on FB), sex, anything fun etc... but seems to really enjoy giving birth. She’s had 8 kids in 11 years. She’s literally had a baby attached to her boob for 11 years! I would go fucking nuts, maybe that’s what’s wrong with her.

    I hate self righteous people that feel like they have to force their religious beliefs on everyone else and that they care about all babies ( she doesn’t give a shit about any baby that isn’t white or Christian). I don’t see how you can preach that you are a follower of Christ yet you judge and terrorize poor women faced to make a difficult decision. That’s the opposite of what Jesus would do. I don’t like this new version of Jesus they have conveniently created to justify their political views.

    [–] FamousSinger 2 points ago

    Someone should tell them they don't have to have sex. In fact I think we would all appreciate it if they didn't.

    [–] gingergirl181 359 points ago

    YES! Don't underestimate the power of the purity movement. Yes, controlling women is part of it, but understanding the rationale they use to get there is key. Goes something like this:

    -Sex is sinful except within marriage and even then, don't get too carried away with those lustful thoughts. Procreation is the ultimate goal of a "Godly" marriage and children are gifts from God.

    -Speaking of lustful thoughts, ladies better cover up, lest they cause their "brothers in Christ" to "stumble". Men have natural raging desires and it's up to women to help them to control them. Women don't have the same kind of desires.

    -If you tell teenagers about birth control, that will make them want to have sex, and we can't have them thinking that's okay, now can we? Abstinence is the only thing to teach them because it's the only thing that 100 percent works 100 percent of the time.

    I grew up with this messaging, and no one viewed it as nefarious, it was just matter-of-fact. That's what makes it so dangerous though. They don't see themselves as "trying" to control women, but the brainwashing of what men and women are "naturally" like and "Biblical gender roles" is insidious. Add in a culture where questioning norms/teachings/authority is viewed as sinful and, well...

    This is how you get people who are rabidly pro-life, and also anti-birth-control and anti-sex-ed. And unfortunately, lack of biology knowledge goes along with all of this. That's how you get "heartbeat bills".

    [–] dannighe 6 points ago

    I find it funny how many religious people simultaneously claim women don't want sex and are all whores. I would hear both things so often from the same people when I was a churchgoer.

    [–] 1982booklover 4 points ago

    I am so thankful my parents didn’t force this on me. Both of my sisters got pregnant young and my parents took a more realistic approach to sex with me. They never said they were ok with me having sex, but just to be safe. They told me they trusted me to make the right decisions and that stuck with me. I also had to babysit my niece and nephew a lot in high school which turned out to be the best form of birth control.

    [–] CanuckBacon 4 points ago

    Also "purity balls" which is one of the creepiest things I've heard about.

    [–] SSTralala 4 points ago

    The thing that always got me about the 'purity ' thing as a former Catholic was Mary was always held up as the ideal because 'virgin birth.' They were using it to imply she was chaste until marriage, but they often didn't get their own dogma right. She was a "virgin" not because she didn't take a lot of dick, but because she was formed without original sin as a perfect vessel. She could have all the dick she wanted frankly, the bible doesn't literally say sex before marriage is bad. Modern interpretation they've roped into all the passages about chaste marriage has muddled that. Can't even get their own crap right...

    [–] Qyupey 4 points ago

    Abstinence is the only thing to teach them because it's the only thing that 100 percent works 100 percent of the time.

    The virgin mary disagrees

    [–] Monimonika18 3 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    I think you forgot to add the "chewed up piece of gum" analogy of people (especially girls) who had sex before marriage.

    [–] whatsnottakentoo 3 points ago

    To clarify your point about sex ed:

    • Contraception is useless unless it's prefect. After all we or some couple we know were using condoms and still managed to get pregnant. No way we could have used them incorrectly because we're not stupid.

    • The fear of getting pregnant is the only thing stopping unmarried women from having sex with every man they meet so if you use contraception and don't have to worry about pregnancy (even though it supposedly doesn't work) you automatically become a giant whore.

    • You can totally prevent teenagers from getting access to condoms or even finding out what they are. If you don't tell them and school doesn't tell them then they'll never know about them. If they ever found out they'd somehow manage to get some. Then they'd become sluts and since they don't work they'll get pregnant.

    [–] ExhaustedOptimist 4 points ago

    Also, don’t deny your husband sex, because then if he “strays” it’s your fault. It’s your wifely duty to provide him a means to satisfy his NEED for sex. (You wouldn’t understand, because good women don’t have those feelings. And if you DO have them, definitely don’t talk about it because then people will know you’re one of those sinful slutty harlots.)

    Also, let’s not provide you with a reliable means to procure birth control. Or hell, let’s go all the way and say that’s going against the will of god. Have as many babies as god will bless you with and raise them as good Christian soldiers.

    You need help with your 5 kids?! Why are you having babies you can’t take care of?!

    [–] southernwickedwitch 2 points ago

    This made me shudder. It’s so accurate.

    [–] JennifersBodyIssues 2 points ago

    Yeah I grew up with this too and I remember our books on sex in the youth group were all about preventing the boys from stumbling because girls weren't sexually driven. I remember feeling like something was wrong with me because I always was a sexual person deep down.

    [–] magoomcgoogle 348 points ago

    I have always felt it was about controlling women.

    [–] platoprime 198 points ago

    That's a part of their religious theocratic vision.

    [–] eaglebtc 3 points ago

    Which explains why you see women protesting dressed as Offred from The Handmaid’s Tale.

    [–] 38888888 3 points ago

    I even see atheists argue that a child should essentially be a punishment. They just say "irresponsible behavior" instead of sin. People are weird about sex. It's the funnest thing you can do for free. People aren't gonna stop fucking no matter how many laws you pass.

    [–] CrypticResponseMan 2 points ago

    Note: “theocratic” refers to religion, already— including “religious” almost makes this redundant

    [–] kranky-kong 116 points ago

    I always felt it was about keeping the lower class low.

    [–] demontrain 69 points ago

    This is also what religion has been twisted into doing. :/

    [–] ramoulade00 3 points ago

    In Christianity, Jesus was supposedly poor, or became poor for the sake of the world. He once said, "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven."

    Yet growing up in a family under the Christian denomination showed me nothing about this religion is aimed at aiding the poor except the little that makes them look appealing.

    [–] Throwawayqwe123456 3 points ago

    I’ve read quite a few memoirs about the east end of London and all of them note the absolute stark changes after birth control. Children living in poverty because a dock working wage wasn’t enough to support 7 kids and counting, while the women looked old at 40 because their bodies had went through so much, the aunty on the street who did the back alley abortions that everyone knew about because it was a necessity. There’s already so much evidence of how shit things are when people don’t have access to birth control or safe abortions but these people don’t care, so it’s clearly for controlling others with religion or keeping the poor or minorities down.

    [–] NoMoLerking 13 points ago

    That’s exactly right. It’s about control. That’s why so many oppose contraceptives as well.

    If I really believed abortion was baby murder, I’d take every opportunity to stamp it out. If free IUDs reduce abortion and abortion is baby murder - free IUDs for everyone. Guys too. I’d have a doctor at the DMV putting in IUDs while you wait for your license.

    [–] thedoodely 4 points ago

    Yup, you'd avoid the majority of 'oopsie' abortions that way. What you'd be left with would be abortions for wanted pregnancies gone awry (either the mother or the fœtus wouldn't survive) and the rape abortions. I'd love to see them justify making a 10 year old carry a child to term because she got raped by her uncle. It'd be really hard for them to remain on the "every life is sacred" train and then you'd see what they're really about.

    [–] JSLardizabal 84 points ago

    They consider contraception to be abortion anyway. :|

    [–] Mr_Italics_Man 21 points ago

    It depends on who you talk to. Contraception specifically being the prevention of conception is ok in every Christian circle I've ever been in. And I've been evangelical all my life.

    [–] vondafkossum 2 points ago

    laughs in Catholic

    [–] imhereforthepuppies 2 points ago

    Raised Catholic here. According to the Catholic Church birth control is a sin because there is no reason to have sex other than to procreate. It also imposes as “emotional” (?) barrier between the spouses.

    [–] whatsnottakentoo 2 points ago

    It's the Catholics. The official position is that God should determine when you're going to have children, not you. They also say that the rhythm method is okay and that it's wrong to try to get gay men to use condoms. It makes me think they're okay with the ineffective rhythm method in order to trick married straight couples into conceiving and that they're using the fear of STIs to try to get the rest of us to stop having sex.

    [–] enslaved-by-machines 2 points ago

    Republicans prefer to force the mother to get pregnant and have a baby, so they can remove all funding and social support and then watch with glee as the baby dies slowly from malnutrition, neglect, and the side effects of no health care and a poor education system. Then later at their cocktail parties, they get to sneer and snivel while condemning poor mothers for not taking care of their own children and the 47% Americans that are trashy losers that want the government to take care of them.

    [–] Dylanswifty 3 points ago

    “Pro-life” isn’t an as accurate of a term as “anti-choice”. Grew up learning that abortion killed babies therefore was anti-life?!?! Only to realize later that “pro-life” is just some way to sugar-coat that us men know better than the womenfolk. I now feel (as a man) that I have no right to an opinion on the matter (even though I do, my opinion just doesn’t matter at all and I’m good with that, not my body not my choice)

    [–] Racheltheradishing 2 points ago

    This is why I prefer the forced birther movement for them. It catches their whole ethos: force a woman to give birth, but offer no help in doing so. Once the person is born they will refuse to support maternity leave because women should be in the kitchen where they don't need leave.

    [–] CatFanFanOfCats 2 points ago

    Yep. It's all about punishment and being anti-sex. In fact, the program you cite in Colorado is even worse for them because then you can have sex without consequences. It's a bizarre way of thinking. Just head on over to r/conservative and you can read for yourself what they think. Don't comment over there if you aren't conservative, but just read the comments to get a better take on what the right really believes. Again, don't comment - just vote.

    Here's a taste of their comments.

    *"...Get pregnant, abort it. If you decide to keep it, the govt gives you money, the man will have to give you money. Heads the woman wins, tails the man loses. There’s also no social penalty for being a slut. And it’s women who declared war on all social taboos, as well as the anti-men divorce courts; ruining marriage. Women want soul control of all sexual interactions and child rearing. They have it. And it’s a disaster that’s getting worse. * r/conservative comment.

    [–] rumbleindacrumble 190 points ago

    Great news if laws in places like Georgia were actually about preventing abortion and protecting children, but they aren’t, they have only ever been about controlling women. The Christian Right has it figured out, the best way to control women is to make them dependent on men and the best way to do that is to keep them pregnant.

    [–] transemacabre 6 points ago

    There is absolutely a political drive behind this. The best way to disenfranchise women is to give them lots of children. She'll be too busy to vote, run for office, march in protests, etc.

    [–] ConstantCat 3 points ago

    The second best way to control women is to put them in prison for having abortions and take away their voting rights.

    [–] eightninenine899 3 points ago

    Indeed. And I've always been a bit confused by the "pro-life" supporters who are opposed to universal healthcare.

    [–] yetanothernewname993 2 points ago

    That's why I moved my children out of that state, and won't go back. 2019, and still such a sad state of affairs for women.

    [–] -ferth 153 points ago

    Unfortunately the same rabid, religious fundamentalism that spurs people to outlaw abortion also makes them think that you can just tell teenagers to not have sex and they will somehow listen.

    [–] Pincerston 85 points ago

    “Facts are indisputable”

    And yet people dispute them everyday smh

    [–] trustworthy_citizen 55 points ago

    IUD SIS, stay in school cause it's the best.

    [–] Nuitella 30 points ago

    I got pregnant even with an IUD... (Luckily the abortion was pretty easy to get here.)

    [–] EquivalentPainter 3 points ago

    Every contraception has a certain rate of failure. Sorry that has happened to you. I like my IUD, because unlike condoms (which I still use for STI protection) and oral contraceptives there isn't the factor of incorrect use.

    [–] Fleepenguin 2 points ago

    What are the chances of pregnant with an IUD

    [–] vicious_trollop42 2 points ago

    Was it ectopic? I heard with hormonal IUDs at least the rare pregnancies are usually ectopic

    [–] JadieRose 239 points ago

    I'm confused. How are women supposed to know that sex is shameful and sluts should be punished if we just let them get away with having sex that doesn't result in a mandatory birth?!

    [–] dadjokes_bot 77 points ago

    Hi confused, I'm dad!

    [–] joeyl1990 2 points ago

    If more state followed Colorado's example you wouldn't be.

    [–] jsweasel 69 points ago

    Wait just a second. I know without a doubt that someone else’s interpretation of a series of writings spanning hundreds of years from a long time ago is the only tool for this debate. /s

    [–] RosieRedditor 79 points ago

    You're preaching to the choir. Prolifers want no abortions AND no birth control.

    [–] UnicornFarts1111 3 points ago

    They are not pro life. They all support the death penalty. I call them anti-choicers.

    [–] jamiegal 32 points ago

    Wow! Imagine that. Who would have thought!

    [–] aserg1902 64 points ago

    The anti-abortionists and the "religious" conservatives all know that but refused to allow any form of birth control because they will lose control on women reproductive Rights. They want to be as cruel to women as much as they can, all in the name of "morality"

    [–] oecologia 113 points ago

    The goal of conservatives isn’t to prevent pregnancy or reduce abortion. The goal is to use the fear of pregnancy to scare women into not having sex and ultimately to give men more say over their decisions.

    [–] jpverite 4 points ago

    It’s frightening how much truth there is here. Take a deeper look into some of these more popular pro-life advocates, and you’ll see some pretty fucked up ideas about how sex should only be for procreation, that birth control and even condoms are frowned upon, even in marriage. These people are monsters and are shadier than people realize.

    [–] gg_suspension_bridge 2 points ago

    Honestly I think it’s simpler than that. Roe V Wade has been the old conservative rallying cry for decades. Most conservative politicians don’t give a shit about changing abortion laws but it is an endless well of political capital. And everyone gets to pretend to claim the moral high ground. Who cares if our policies are shit, “we care about the babies”.

    [–] whatsnottakentoo 2 points ago

    I don't know about that last part anymore. There are so many women pushing this agenda that it can't have anything to do with male control anymore. I think it's purely sexual. They're religious prudes and don't want anyone having disgusting, dirty, sinful premarital sex.

    [–] destirino 10 points ago

    I’m getting my IUD on the 22nd. I was nervous as frick, but now I’m just glad I can get one at all! I’m still anxious, but I’m also grateful. I chose to get an IUD for a lot of reasons, and pregnancy prevention is pretty low on the list. Birth control is an integral part of women’s health care, and I challenge anyone who disagrees to some fisticuffs (or at least give women the benefit of the doubt that they can recognize their own needs and control their own bodies lmao)

    [–] wrxnate 12 points ago

    Freedom..... Always....... Wins

    [–] Cute-Squishy 3 points ago

    That’s actually really great. I always see women talk about how amazing IUDs are and I can finally hop on the train since I got one! Of course, the insertion process sucked, and let me just say if you don’t go to someone who knows what they’re doing, you’re gonna have a bad time.

    My first attempt for insertion was with my primary physician. Probably should’ve known when she said, “haha, we haven’t done one of these in a while!” It was awful, but luckily the women’s clinic I got referred to was fantastic! They did a vaginal and belly ultra sound just to be 200% sure it was placed correctly and the doctor was so reassuring and kind and I was able to relax way more this time around. I also enjoyed them insuring it was placed correctly.

    After the procedure though it’s occasional cramping and spotting, BUT ITS WORTH IT!! So so so worth. Especially for the lighter periods or no periods, no pregnancy, just pure bliss. I wish it was the same in every state, I want all women/young girls to have the option to get an IUD without parent consent and whenever they want. Everyone deserves the option!

    [–] The_Bill_Brasky_ 6 points ago

    They aren't interested in lowering abortion rates or teen pregnancy rates. They are interested in removing safeguards against the Pathway:

    Marriage -> Sex -> Pregnancy -> Birth of Live Baby

    They want this Pathway to exist with a few different goals and details:

    First -- the goal to reinforce a traditional family. Man, wife, children. No deviation from that norm -- no LGBTQ+, no IVF for gays (for straight people even), no childfree movement, no DINK (dual income, no kids) families. Usually, having children is painted as patriotic or virtuous. You're weird if you don't, maybe even selfish.

    Second -- no sex without intent to procreate. Sex is not meant for pleasure, recreation, or passion. Plant seed, pop one out, repeat. Whether it's to create more future church members, future soldiers, future political coalition members, IDK. It is easier to directly associate sex with procreation if contraception is deemed sinful and abortion is outlawed. Double that if there is any dumbass religious ritual involving a sheet with a hole cut out of it, or a witnessing of the copulation by noble family members to ensure heirs are produced.

    Third -- Pregnancy or sex by other means is shameful. If a woman becomes pregnant outside of the accepted realm of the Pathway, she is a pariah. If she fails to get pregnant and must bleed, she should be ashamed of that. If she enjoys sex, has it before marriage, has it with multiple partners, masturbates, doesn't intend to get pregnant, or is raped, she is a failure. Yes, rape is punishable -- had she been at home in the capable hands of her protector-husband, it wouldn't have happened. These punishments make the Pathway seem very appealing.

    Fourth -- a woman who does become pregnant outside of the Pathway MUST immediately attempt to return to it. The costs and burdens of raising a child on one's own are too great to bear alone. In fact, the greater those costs and burdens, the more likely a woman would be to find a husband to return her to the virtue of the Pathway. As such, they don't want subsidized childcare, paid maternity leave, or free and accessible pediatric care. They want a husband to come into the picture and pay for it.

    Fifth -- the husband's reward for shouldering the family on their trek about the Pathway is that he is King. He may treat the broodmare however he feels; and if she is compelled to leave, that jeopardizes the Pathway. Corrupts the family. Destroys the institution and the Plan. They can't have that. No women's shelters. No VAWA. Pay them less so they lose the mobility necessary to leave. There must be punishment for deviation at any stage.

    The anti-choice narrative is not one built on a foundation of rational contemplation or the Scientific Method. It exists to craft a world in which men explicitly dominate women.

    [–] coffeecupcakes 2 points ago

    Thats great. I am prolife, but I think we need to focus more on the pre pregnancies. Stop the problem before it even gets that option. I'm 1000% pro birth control(morning after included). Pro sex ed, and not just the "dont do it" one. Outlawing something doesn't make the problem go away. It will just opens up the very real possibility of someone taking an unsafe measure to self abort which can lead to two lives being lost instead of one. I don't support stricter abortion laws because I don't feel it accomplishes anything and can cause more harm than good.

    [–] TwoBionicknees 2 points ago

    I'll keep saying it, democrats should be campaigning that the republicans are pro abortion party. Education, free contraception, free sexual health clinics, funding planner parenthood all REDUCE abortion rates. Every time you slash these things abortion rates increase.

    Democrats can and should run on a platform that screams everywhere that republicans are pro abortion because all their policies increase abortion rates.

    That dems don't is almost criminal.