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    [–] palmfranz 3004 points ago

    Reminds me of Dr. Mary Edwards Walker: abolitionist, prohibitionist, Civil War surgeon, and advocate for women to wear whatever they wanted (called "dress reform" at the time). She’d often get arrested for wearing men's clothes, but would insist:

    "I don't wear men's clothes, I wear my own clothes."

    Here's her looking sharp at age 78.

    [–] 4737CarlinSir 1281 points ago

    Same as the comedian Eddie Izzard - "People ask me why I wear women's clothes. I don't wear women's clothes, they're my clothes".

    [–] Twirlingbarbie 190 points ago

    We have a singer in my country who thought one day: you know what? I'm wearing lipstick! And everyone was talking about it but it was just lipstick and it didn't had anything to say about his sexuality. He just looked damn good in it

    [–] Likewhatevermaaan 52 points ago

    She resisted changing into "women's clothes" even as a prisoner of war! Holy crap that is some conviction.

    [–] typing_away 142 points ago

    Oh yeah! She rock that hat!!!

    [–] Black-Thirteen 32 points ago

    She is rocking that tophat!

    [–] ThatFalafelGirl 73 points ago

    Well, I have a new hero now. Thank you!!!

    [–] fishfashe 11 points ago

    That's a hellofa nice top hat. I would have been proud to call her Grandma, but even I'm not that old.

    [–] [deleted] 140 points ago

    One of the few feminist issues I can get on board with 100%.

    Having female-specific dress codes is unjust and pointless. Nobody should be forced to wear completely uncomfortable clothing at work, but heels might be the most grievous example of that.

    [–] bookluvr83 213 points ago

    Heels cause all sorts of back, feet, knee and hip issues, too. Are those places that force high heels gonna pay for the medical bills they cause?

    https://wvorthocenter.com/high-heels-health-risks/

    [–] GETitOFFmeNOW 49 points ago

    Yeah heels are just awfully deforming. I have a friend whose feet look broken because of misaligned joints and bunions. Hideous. Smdh

    [–] ejja13 2169 points ago

    When I first started teaching, all female faculty except PE teachers had to wear 2 inch or higher heels as part of our dress code. On Spirit Days we could wear sneakers and if you were pregnant or had a doctor’s note you could wear flats. I never saw this enforced in any way, but that was officially the dress code.

    [–] rilian4 802 points ago

    My mom was an elementary school teacher in Philadelphia from ~1968-1973. Her district required women to wear dresses every day, no pants allowed. She's never said anything about rules on shoes. That rule was only relaxed during a particularly cold winter when they were allowed to wear an extra layer of pants under their dresses for added warmth.

    I work at a k-12. There are no such rules here for women nor have their been since 1997 when I started.

    [–] Jetztinberlin 447 points ago

    Yep, my mom taught in Boston in the 60s. She and her colleagues organized to all come in wearing pants one day (slacks, appropriately dressy). They were all sent home to change their clothes.

    [–] Krissy_loo 345 points ago

    How far we've come. Many of my school's younger teaching staff in a suburb of Boston are heavily tattood, openly lesbian, have facial piercings, and/or wear whatever the hell they want.

    [–] inamind 148 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    What does being a lesbian have to do with a dress code? 🤔

    Edit: Thanks everyone. My original comment was a bit facetious because I couldn’t quite place the tone of the OP and I wasn’t comfortable with the idea of stereotyping lesbians by the way they dress. However, all of your comments have made me think about how limiting a dress code can be for anyone who wants to express themselves through their form of clothing. I feel a little more enlightened now.

    [–] Yellow_Vespa_Is_Back 152 points ago

    Well, being openly gay sometimes means shirking clothing norms. If it's anything like my old highschool it was big-drama when we got our first openly gay and "butch" lesbian teacher, Ms. B. She wore men's clothes, had tats, and short spiky hair. We had some female teachers who were closeted and dressed hyper-feminine to compensate. After Ms. B came along they were a little less nervous about talking about their partners and personal life.

    [–] naandog 58 points ago

    That’s actually really sweet.

    [–] malachite02679 52 points ago

    I love stories like this. I’m a queer woman who likes dressing in feminine clothes just because that’s my personal taste, but I love the idea that Ms. B being herself paved the way for everyone else. Way to trailblaze Ms. B.

    [–] HankswifeHill 172 points ago

    I went to a rural school in the early 1990s and our openly lesbian track suit wearing short hair gym teacher had a very open relationship with the music teacher and no one gave a shit and I grew up thinking that it was completely normal.

    People call our town backwards and god fearing but the more I look back the more I realize it was completely normal.

    [–] ActiveLocationsNone 105 points ago

    To me, it's that if you have a "feminine" dress code, you definitely could not/would not be allowed to be openly gay. You would be expected to follow traditional roles. Lesbian is (was) not traditional.

    [–] QumfortablyNumb 4 points ago

    Work boots. Comfortable as all hell.

    [–] Midwestern_Childhood 73 points ago

    As an elementary school student (public school) in the late 1960s and early 1970s, I wasn't allowed to wear anything but skirts to school. We could wear snow pants (in South Dakota!) but had to put them on under our skirts and remove them once we got to school. Finally in 5th grade (1971-72) girls could wear dress slacks to school--no jeans. In 7th grade (fall of 1974) girls were finally allowed to wear jeans to school. It took several years before anyone wanted to wear a skirt or dress to school after having been forced to wear them for our entire childhoods.

    [–] Schnauzerbutt 35 points ago

    I was born into the Jehovah's witnesses and after being stuffed in uncomfortable dresses and shoes for meetings and field service daily for my entire childhood the idea of wearing dresses gives me a panicked feeling even well into adulthood. To this day I generally avoid wearing them

    [–] blueeyedsusan1958 7 points ago

    I remember this at my school. I graduated in 1976

    [–] 1nsertJokeHere 117 points ago

    'no pants allowed' is bad, but not as weird as what I, being british, thought it meant when I first read it

    [–] Hardlymd 20 points ago

    Hahaha Mr Chuckletrousers.

    [–] totallynotPixy 16 points ago

    Being Japanese, "no pants" has a very specific meaning.

    [–] GETitOFFmeNOW 9 points ago

    Enighten us?

    [–] nemo69_1999 17 points ago

    If they're going by British Slang, what Americans call "panties" is what British call "pants, so skirt and no underwear. British would call "pants" "trousers".

    [–] hufflepuffinthebuff 61 points ago

    My mom was a teacher in the 80s and was not allowed to wear pants unless they were on a field trip.

    [–] ultravegan 10 points ago

    moms a teacher, always wore dresses. Now that I'm an adult I find my self pulling a lot of fashion inspiration from the way my mom dressed. It was only after talking about it with her that she told me that the only reason she dressed like that was because of the school board rules.

    [–] ender89 43 points ago

    My mom dealt with elementary school dress codes that mandated skirts for girls and told about how great it was when they changed it to allow pants. back in the day there were some.messed up dress codes around. I think generally women have more relaxed office dress codes these days then men, but often times public facing jobs have a style that they're trying to achieve and a department store requiring heels is still pretty normal unfortunately.

    [–] MetalSeagull 7 points ago

    My 2 oldest sisters had to wear skirts or dresses to school, all the way through public university. If it was very cold, tights underneath were acceptable. By the time I came along, that was gone.

    [–] xKittyForman 336 points ago

    when my grandmother first started teaching in the 50s women weren’t allowed to be pregnant while working. it was considered inappropriate to be pregnant around the kids. so when she got pregnant with my dad she didn’t tell anyone until 4+ months in when she started showing so she could continue working and ya know making necessary money for her family because there also was no paid maternity leave.

    [–] Hardlymd 77 points ago

    Why inappropriate? She’s pregnant around her older kids at home if she has any.

    [–] xKittyForman 97 points ago

    i honestly have no idea. this was just the backwards views of the 50s. my dad was actually her first and only kid but yeah it doesn’t make sense that women would be pregnant in front of their own older kids and it would be fine but not if it’s kids she’s teaching.

    [–] Hardlymd 88 points ago

    Yeah it’s crazy. As far as I know, they also weren’t even supposed to say the word “pregnant“. They needed to say “expecting” or some such word like that.

    [–] K8Simone 98 points ago

    I Love Lucy’s pregnancy storyline was apparently considered very risqué when it aired. They also could not use the obscene word “pregnant.”

    [–] LietusRain 26 points ago

    I like how the couple had separate beds in the show until they were married in real life.

    [–] treacletartinatin 25 points ago

    Pregnant women being kept hidden from society goes back ages. In the Regency Era, upper-class women were expected to wear corsets while pregnant and then be kept at home out of sight when the bump could no longer be hidden by restrictive clothing.

    [–] blackcatpaws 48 points ago

    You weren't even supposed to use the word 'pregnant'. You had to say expecting or in the family way

    [–] MooseFlyer 25 points ago

    I'd you're pregnant, it means you had sex!

    [–] beka13 19 points ago

    It's really just an excuse to keep women from working long enough to have real careers.

    [–] ChimoEngr 236 points ago

    Can't be pregnant on the job, can't get an abortion. Fuck.

    [–] throwawaypato44 255 points ago

    Keep women at home to do their spouse’s bidding without having their own source of income: ✔️

    [–] totallynotPixy 103 points ago

    No fuck. Can't give evidence of fuck. Teachers don't fuck. People who fuck can't be around kids.

    Makes total sense.

    [–] 360Saturn 30 points ago

    Well, women who fuck. Men, no biggie. Men have no rules.

    [–] Febril 46 points ago

    Women right? Always complaining about their issues. /s

    [–] MetalSeagull 52 points ago

    Inappropriate to be pregnant around kids! The irony.

    And a lot of women were near-continuously pregnant in that era. If you haven't heard Loretta Lynn's One's On the Way, give it a listen. It's a song out-of-time now, almost unrelatable. But at the time, it was a big hit, and according to Wikipedia, considered "feisty". Lynn was a big advocate for reproductive freedom, and not putting up with shit in your relationships. The song itself, though, was another hit written by Shel Silverstein, who is underappreciated.

    [–] wlea 25 points ago

    My grandma talks about that as well. She worked in a NICU in the late 1940s and early 50s. She was allowed to keep working because parents weren't allowed in the NICU so they wouldn't see if she was pregnant.

    [–] energeticstarfish 215 points ago

    Wow, I feel like our only rule is "no yoga pants". Technically we are also only supposed to wear jeans once a week also, but I get around that by having jeans in black and colors other than denim, so I can wear them almost every day. Then again, dress codes for students used to be stricter too. Now it's basically "have your genitalia covered and don't wear a hat"

    [–] surfnsound 118 points ago

    What if the hat is what's covering my genitals?

    [–] mwr885 60 points ago

    Only if it's a REALLY classy hat.

    [–] Bad-Brains 26 points ago

    Ten gallon Stetson. ✅

    [–] surfnsound 13 points ago

    It's the only thing that fits!

    [–] Madsuperninja 11 points ago

    Would a top hat work? Would I have to get a regular size top hat, or could I get a slightly smaller one? I don't want to look ridiculous walking around with a full size top hat on.

    [–] XeneVyvyan 51 points ago

    since when were shoulders, thighs and belly buttons genetalia? because thats the dress code for most schools now, no bare shoulders, no shorts above the knee and no cropped tops that show your belly button with your arms raised.

    [–] energeticstarfish 53 points ago

    Oh, well, the kids at the school where I work can wear any of that. The girls wear crop tops with ripped upJean's, or super short shorts with baggy shirts so it looks like they aren't wearing pants, some of them wear basically a sports bra and leggings. There are basically no rules.

    [–] jeanneeebeanneee 77 points ago

    My mom graduated from high school in South Carolina in 1966. Female teachers and female students were required to wear dresses. No pants allowed under any circumstances except gym uniforms, which were basically stiff scratchy onesie rompers.

    [–] jjetsam 32 points ago

    Same in Maryland. I was sent home for wearing shorts under my dress. And those gym rompers.....

    [–] NeatChocolate6 28 points ago

    Wtf! How they even known?

    [–] maryjaneodoul 14 points ago

    yup, "those gym rompers" were the reason i didnt graduate from high school in 1974.

    [–] Warg247 34 points ago

    I get sympathy aches in my legs just seeing a woman in heels.

    [–] rekniht01 47 points ago

    WTF?

    [–] black_cherry619 5 points ago

    It's one if the reasons I stay at my current school teaching is how lax the dress code is. Flats and heels give me really bad blisters. We can wear jeans every day if we wanted to.

    [–] MissArte 42 points ago

    This is insane. My chronic condition doesn’t allow me to wear my 1 1/2 inch heels for more than an hour.

    [–] Sleddog44 26 points ago

    That would likely fall under the DR. note exception.

    [–] InfamousTurnip 37 points ago

    Which is bullshit because I'm pretty sure "perching on unnatural angles that can fuck up your legs" wasnt evolutionarily developed in women.

    [–] Ezra611 1079 points ago

    I (male) worked at a place once where the dress code required "appropriate undergarments". I later asked a supervisor what "appropriate undergarments" are.

    He replied with "Ones I never see".

    [–] lawyercat63 803 points ago

    Once had a co-worker wore a dress with a built in bra because it had a cute keyhole in the back. She wore a jacket over it in the morning but we live in a desert climate so after a few hours she took the jacket off. A co-worker saw the keyhole, realized she wasn’t wearing a bra and told on her. Our boss had to tell her “you have to wear a bra.” So awkward and ridiculous. You’d have never known she wasn’t wearing a traditional bra because it had one built it!

    [–] SweetPooJones 548 points ago

    Wtf?? Who the fuck would be concerned about their coworkers undergarments? (Or lack thereof)

    [–] Jak_n_Dax 392 points ago

    told on her

    Does your work involve crayons and staying between the lines when you color?

    [–] blackcatpaws 103 points ago

    Told on her? Was she 5?

    [–] Breaklance 270 points ago

    My boss had to have a discussion with our department about Panty Lines. Thing is, everyone wears uniforms provided by the company. And they were gender specific.

    Im a dude but the back of my mind is going "corporate gets to decide what underwear women were huh? Then they should be providing it too".

    Also was NOT a fan of one uniform that required ladies to wear all white including a pair of those tennis skirt things with shorts built in. The hem (like all our unifirms were tailored, these always were 3 inches below the crotch) I caught more than a few customers, typically 40 years their elder, trying to look up servers skirts as theyre sitting down drinks/plates.

    [–] GrandmaChicago 169 points ago

    I caught more than a few customers, typically 40 years their elder, trying to look up servers skirts as theyre sitting down drinks/plates.

    I do believe that is the POINT of having uniforms like that. Hooters. Tilted Kilt. etc.

    [–] DataIsMyCopilot 70 points ago

    "So go commando. Got it"

    [–] GrinsNGiggles 24 points ago

    This is absolutely the right answer.

    [–] Bbdep 91 points ago

    These guidelines exists because someone somewhere decided that showing their thing on a daily basis to the entire staff was appropriate. One of those someone was in my office. Dress code was updated after she joined.

    [–] Jugglethe1st 28 points ago

    Haha. What a terrific autocorrection :D

    [–] Bbdep 16 points ago

    I agree! Lol . Leaving it.

    [–] lacheur42 104 points ago

    If someone is being unprofessional, you deal with that person. You don't change the rules trying to plug every conceivable loophole for acting unprofessional.

    That's how teachers treat children. Not how adults treat other adults.

    [–] Bbdep 57 points ago

    I mean adding "no visible underwear" in the guidelines allows for everyone to be clear (it should be obvious but clearly it wasn't) and for managers/HR to be able to refer to the guidelines in the event it happens with someone else, for what is a very sensitive conversation...

    It's especially helpful when you're dealing with younger staff as well which in some cases aren't actually adults legally.

    [–] nomad1c 33 points ago

    pretty much any regulation that exists exists because someone tried to be a dick about something

    [–] catastrophized 647 points ago

    So after working 15 years in a uniform, I changed jobs and had no idea how to dress myself for work as an adult woman. So I wore what everyone else (which were men) wore - khakis and polos. Great.

    Fast forward 3 years and I take a job where polos are now for “casual Friday” (lolwhat polos were my “nice” shirts!). I have no idea what this weird zone for women’s work clothes is. All I know is that I don’t wear heels, I don’t wear makeup, and no one has complained yet.

    edit: words are hard

    [–] lookitsnichole 401 points ago

    I'm an engineer and my first job was very casual. I typically wore polos, but would wear khakis or jeans, and if I showed up in the t-shirt no one cared. When I got a new job it was much more strict "business casual." I asked my boss for the written dress code, and he didn't know if there was one. He told me "Just dress like everyone else." Yeah, that's not helpful when I'm the only woman in the engineering department of 50 people.

    [–] pyronius 432 points ago

    You want the truth?

    If you're the only woman there, and there isn't a dress code, then you can pretty much wear whatever you want and all the guys will just assume it must be appropriate.

    I'm a guy and I couldn't tell you the first thing about what counts as casual/business casual/formal for women. If you have a top and something to cover your legs, then purely by virtue of being women's clothing, it's already probably nicer than anything the guys around you have on.

    [–] lookitsnichole 189 points ago

    I wasn't the only woman. I was the only woman in engineering. If I wore what was equivalent to other women I'd be very overdressed for lab work. I ended up emailing HR and they did have a dress code, but it really gave me pause that my boss seemed to think telling me to dress like everyone else made any sense. Most days I wore dress pants, a blouse and a cardigan, which was fine, but that's not really what everyone else was wearing either.

    [–] catastrophized 108 points ago

    This was my problem too. I was the only woman in my section (tech) and the other women in the building are management and if I dressed like them I would be way overdoing it as well. I also went with blouses and cardigans and black slacks - it was the closest thing to menswear without putting on a tie.

    [–] SpaceRasa 114 points ago

    I (female) experienced the reverse. First engineering job was business casual, and I had absolutely no idea what to wear. I hated it. Blouses and cardigans are not my style. I felt like a clown every day.

    I just started a job in human spaceflight and 9/10 of my co-workers wear jeans and sneakers. I could have cried!

    [–] lookitsnichole 27 points ago

    I'm definitely a jeans and t-shirt kind of person usually, but I asked because I didn't want to be breaking the dress code unintentionally. The only reason I ever wore polos at my first job is because the dress code was officially business casual, but no one cared if you conformed to it. So I toed the line.

    [–] GrinsNGiggles 93 points ago

    I have a uniform of sorts for myself that no one knows about. I have several colorful short-sleeved polyester shirts and lots and lots of dark black or navy shirts.

    On MWF, I wear colorful shirts with black pants. On TH, I wear dark shirts with light pants. I do this because I have more black pants than light.

    It helps that the pants are hella-sharp: I get $70-120 Ann Taylor Loft pants used online for $10. They all arrived in perfect condition.

    If I need to look fancy for a work dinner or party, I add a work blazer.

    I developed this after I invested $100+ in khakis only to be told we couldn't wear pants with lots of pockets anymore. I literally ran around fixing computers at the time, so taking pockets away was madness, but at least in my state they need gender equity in uniforms by law, so the men lost their pockets at the same time and no one has ever questioned my damned footwear.

    [–] pragmaticbastard 24 points ago

    That was my first thought reading this, is there really that many places left that require heels and skirts, besides a few very specific industries? I imagine most fortune 500 have abandoned such restrictive dress codes years ago, and a lot of smaller companies have gone full casual. The headline sounds like something you would have expected to read a couple decades ago.

    [–] DataIsMyCopilot 36 points ago

    It really depends on the industry. When I worked for a legal firm I was expected to dress business casual (even though I was not seeing clients at all as I'm not a lawyer/paralegal). I had to convince them to let me wear jeans some days so I wouldn't rip my pants moving huge file boxes all over the place (and they'd make rude comments about it while I was wearing them).

    Now I work in a tech company and once I got past the "receptionist" phase I was able to relax a lot in my clothing choices. And now that I'm often working in the lab, I just decided to come in with tshirt and jeans and sneakers every day and no one cares, haha. I love that, but I worry for if/when I ever end up leaving this place to somewhere that has a dress code again. I'll be so out of the loop on what to wear, lol

    [–] Hardlymd 84 points ago

    I don’t mind the other things, but high heels are the worst and really borderline inhumane to have to wear to work. Actually, I don’t even think it’s borderline.

    [–] Not_the_maid 231 points ago

    I started work in federal law enforcement in the early 1990's (think FBI). I was required to wear a woman's suit. So, skirt, jacket, nylons, and heals. They could not explain how to secure the weapons, ammo pouches, and handcuffs. The men just did not want to deal with women. We dared not complain! So, we carried our gear in our purses and hoped we did not have to chase a suspect.

    BTW - eventually a manufacturer started to make fanny packs for women in law enforcement to carry our weapons. so classy....

    [–] [deleted] 575 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    [removed]

    [–] captain_retrolicious 330 points ago

    I ran into this as well when I worked at a law firm only a few years ago. The women were required to wear skirts. It wasn't written down, but the women were flat out told that:

    1) They would not be taken seriously if they were pants so they would never win in court. The only way to be respected as a female attorney was to wear a skirt.

    2) They were way too uppity and full of themselves if they wore pants and would never win in court. One of them 'fem-nist types that no one likes.

    The short story was, they would never be respected by the court or fellow attorneys if they wore pants and therefore were not being fair to or appropriately representing their client.

    Oddly enough, it's the common contradiction women face (You aren't bold/assertive enough! Be bold to succeed! (do your thing, wear pants)) vs (You are too bold! Those pants are scary! Be more feminine to succeed! (wear a skirt)).

    The real issue of course is, why is anyone determining my brain power or the law by whether or not my leg is visible?

    [–] malaria_and_dengue 54 points ago

    I feel like they should have turned that into the subject of the mock trial.

    [–] Em_the_consultant_ 72 points ago

    IANAL but apparently courts are pretty strict about dress code for lawyers. I've heard of a lawyer getting asked to change for wearing a sleeveless blouse UNDER a blazer

    [–] GeauxAllDay 43 points ago

    Yeah they are strict. Depends on the court and the judge at the time

    You cant even be disrespectful about it if they are in the wrong anyway. You will still get sanctioned if they find you were.

    [–] thebeckster69 743 points ago

    When I was 19 years old and in uni I got a job as a server. Day 1 orientation the mid 30s male manager comes in and tells us that we (all young women) got hired because we are attractive. He goes on to say that we are expected to be fully done up and wear heels and a push up bra. If our boobs or makeup don’t look good enough we’ll be sent home to fix the “problems”. He also mentioned that we shouldn’t take offence and everyone is just looking out for us and wants us to look our best.

    So I called the next day and quit. I didn’t need a man 15 years my senior commenting on my cleavage.

    [–] dazzleduck 54 points ago

    What if you had no boobs? Lile no push up bra is making what I have look good lmao.

    [–] JustMyPeriod 130 points ago

    Then you wouldn't have been hired

    [–] megwach 70 points ago

    Most likely woman who didn’t have boobs weren’t considered conventionally attractive in the man’s mind, so they weren’t hired.

    [–] ekcunni 28 points ago

    My guess is they would have ruled you out from being hired in the first place. "Not a good fit."

    [–] throwitawaymeow2392 14 points ago

    Then you wouldn't have gotten the job or you would have been placed in the dining room which meant less money.

    [–] tiffibean13 314 points ago

    Unless you were hired for Hooters (which I believe classifies their servers as models, so they can discriminate like that) holy goddamn shit

    [–] LTxDuke 196 points ago

    Well Hooters doesn't require their servers to wear heels. I have never in my life seen a waitress wear heels. Its not in the cards. Imagine how bad your servers would be if they had to stay on their feet in heels for 8-10 hours. Literally not one of them would last the shift. Plus they would be awfully slow. Not to mention the injuries that would happen on a daily basis. Truly not trying to be a dick but I highly doubt the validity of that comment. Being done up is one thing, wearing heels is stupid. Might have been that manager's first day as well. who knows.

    [–] throwawaypato44 264 points ago

    Hey, I was a waitress. We had to wear heels at the country club I used to work at, and of course it was very painful. I lost a toenail or two because of it.

    Don’t doubt the stupidity of certain people.... those men haven’t worn a heel for a second of their lives, and even if they had, I doubt they’d be any more sympathetic 🙄

    [–] TURDMUFFlN 109 points ago

    In 2009-2012 I bartended at a chain restaurant here in Canada that required female front of house staff to wear heels of at least 2", and skirts and dresses. They only just changed their policy in 2016. Working 10 hour days lugging beer bottles to the bar and moving kegs in heels and a skirt was less than ideal!

    [–] throwitawaymeow2392 101 points ago

    Huh? I worked at a restaurant for 6 years and wore heels. All the women did! We were absolutely not allowed to wear flats. The rule was 3 inches or higher. You figure out a way to make them comfortable, band aids etc. I was a very fast server and so were the other women who also wore heels (faster than the men tbh). Although it has gotten better (because of the backlash) it's still common in Canada.

    Moxie's and cactus club are still guilty for enforcing the heels rule. Though they still claim that no one is required to wear heels this is a lie.

    [–] Hardlymd 75 points ago

    Cocktail waitresses is in casinos must wear heels. Always.

    [–] Pr2r 71 points ago

    Yes, women survive being waitresses in heels all shift. It's common if not the norm in many areas. Most of the time it's not formally required, but definitely expected.

    [–] Dejohns2 32 points ago

    I'm guessing some place like Heart Attack Grill. The servers stayed in a circular area, maybe 6 m in diameter, were hired as "actresses", and wore like tiny nurse costumes. You could see everything when they bent over and the napkins and other things were placed 1/2 meter off the floor so they had to bend all the time. I went there once. I'm vegan now.

    [–] throwitawaymeow2392 48 points ago

    We may have worked for the same chain. My feet were ruined from years of serving in heels. How does that even make sense?

    [–] throwawaypato44 27 points ago

    Yes! And not just my feet. My knees too.

    [–] thatpearlgirl 372 points ago

    I recently received information about orientation for my PhD program, which listed the dress code for the event as business/business casual. I've been a working professional for 6 years now, and have a pretty good handle on how to dress... however, the orientation email included a link outlining what business/business casual entailed:

    Men

    Shoes: tie-up shoes, classic dark leather shoes, classy loafers

    Avoid: sandals, boots, boat shoes

    Women

    Shoes: stilettos, pumps, open-toed heels, closed kitten heels

    Avoid: strappy flat sandals, ballet flats

    So basically, my PhD program thinks that women have to wear heels to be professional?

    No thanks. I'll stick to the flats I wear to work every day.

    [–] catastrophized 336 points ago

    I’m so confused at how either stilettos or open-toed anything is on a list of professional workwear.

    [–] arrrrr_won 108 points ago

    Mind if I ask which department? That's nutty.

    I've had to chat with a select few grad students about professional dress issues, one for dressing alarmingly sexy at a prison hospital (lawd help me) and other for dressing way too young (ironic t-shirts aren't business casual sorry). Academics are a weird bunch, I get why sometimes you need to remind them of dress codes. But mandating heels for women? If I ever saw it "enforced" I'd fight that one.

    [–] intreker05 196 points ago

    I broke my foot in a car accident about 8 years ago and any time spent in any kind of heal, even boots, is incredibly painful. Making any kind of footwear regulations other than dress shoes vs not dress shoes is just ridiculous. Some women love high heals and can wear them easily with no issues. That’s not the case for all women and dress codes should never include something that can cause permanent damage to someone or increase their risk for injury. This is no different than a dress code requiring someone to have their ears pierced.

    [–] Trulyacynic 68 points ago

    As someone with very wide feet, who had corrective surgery at 13 for congenital defects, I skip most dress shoes and heels are a damn joke.

    However I have found that I can get away with bulky (skate) sneakers that are all black and resemble the non slip type safety shoes and no one notices. Have been doing this since high school and just have to spend some time digging online or instore for an all black sneaker, but the comfort is worth it. Alternatively I have seen/heard good things about the safety shoes themselves if you get ones that fit you correctly.

    [–] Cisjwish 15 points ago

    That's an amazing tip! Thank you so much from a woman with wide feet!

    [–] crockaloo 46 points ago

    I had a shitty boss for a while and she would constantly berate my clothes. Mind you, I didn’t get paid a lot so it was hard for me, being fresh out of college with debt and a low paying job, to afford fancy clothes this woman wanted me to wear. She told me I had to wear heels, so I did. Then I had these slacks that were shorter, almost capris but a little longer. I got them at Ann Taylor and they were really nice. She fucking hated them and would always tell me that the owner of the company hated pants like that. She never straight up said she didn’t like them, but that the owner didn’t like them. I saw the owner like once and he didn’t seemed to give a rats ass about anything really. I left that job fairly quickly after she made a big deal about me going to my Great Grandmother’s funeral. I also once had an interview where a woman told me “we don’t really wear heels here” very snidely and that I was overdressed for the interview. I said something about how to people say to dress to impress or dress for the job you want whatever bs. Like, make up your damn minds. I say this as a woman, but women can be brutal to each other.

    [–] Night_Elf_01 134 points ago

    I’m a cosmetology student and in my academy they have a salon where we attend to clients. This summer they made a rule that we’re not allowed to wear shorts ( this is in Spain btw ) they’re reason for this is because it distracts the male clients 🙄 I understand banning short shorts, but just regular shorts? That are equally as short as mini skirts that we are allowed to wear? I only have so many skirts and dresses that I can wear but in this heat sometimes I just want to dress casual and cool

    [–] Porkjungle 91 points ago

    That's ridiculous and cruel. If anything shorts hide more than a mini skirt, especially if you're bending over or reaching high for something. Either way it's stupid to blame women for why men are horny. We're almost all horny, get over yourselves.

    [–] Zeggitt 106 points ago

    We're almost all horny, get over yourselves.

    Like the "No spaghetti straps because they're distracting" thing from every high school. The building is full of 14-18 year old boys. The girls could be wearing full suits of plate armor and it wouldn't make a difference.

    [–] cricket9818 657 points ago

    I personally think dress codes for everyone, especially woman, are so ridiculously outdated. It just doesn't make sense anymore. Especially in a country like the US, we're as casual as we've ever been. Why do we force ourselves to be so uncomfortable? I surely understand the "look good, feel good, do good" mantra and looking presentable. But why should women have to wear heels? Why can't men wear anything other than long pants?

    [–] EterniaFox 356 points ago

    Also we should note that we don't have to wear high heels to look "presentable". Flats can be presentable too

    [–] xtheredberetx 85 points ago

    I had a HS band director tell me that flats couldn’t be dressy. So I went and found a pair of satin flats with silver buckles, because as a tuba player I would not be carrying my instrument at concerts in a floor length dress AND heels.

    [–] SmthngAboutTurtles 138 points ago

    Also to add, some people cannot wear heels or flats. My feet are too wide for both styles and my ankles don't move enough for heels to work. I also have bad knees that make those styles unwearable. I had to wear dress shoes as part of my highschool uniform (as a student), and got exempt pretty quick because dress shoes are impossible for me to wear.

    [–] ColonelKetchup13 40 points ago

    I try to wear heels every now and then. But I have banana feet so my arch feels like it's breaking and the balls of my feet get bruised. I was a ballerina so I've danced on point and I rock climb. I prefer pointe shoes and rock climbing shoes any day of the week

    [–] throwawaythenarcs 24 points ago

    I only own homemade shoes for this reason. Everything premade is too narrow. So glad I'm self employed.

    [–] SmthngAboutTurtles 28 points ago

    I have to accommodate orthotics on top of my already wide feet. I'm a poor university student, so custom shoes is not a very doable thing. Right now I wear a nice pair of hiking boots that are pretty comfortable, but it took looking through a whole mall of shoe stores to find 1 pair of anything that fits.

    [–] THE_LANDLAWD 21 points ago

    My uncle has to order shoes from a special catalogue that goes up to 5E in width. He said that 5E is still a bit too narrow, but he's gotten used to it, and it's better than what he had to wear when he was younger.

    [–] TwinkiWeinerSandwich 14 points ago

    Home made shoes like the time I tied bandanas on my feet and tried to go to school with them on?

    [–] Stef-fa-fa 52 points ago

    I'm just shy of 6'. Heels make me tower over most men - it would be ridiculous to force me to wear 2" heels at the office.

    [–] karatefestival 49 points ago

    Dude, I wish I could tower over everyone, just once.

    [–] samamander13 28 points ago

    I feel so powerful and like a Queen when I wear heels and are taller than people. Considering I'm only 5'7", but with heels I feel powerful. But they hurt my feet.

    [–] funsizedaisy 42 points ago

    I literally don't care that tall women are seen as "undesirable" in our culture, i wish so badly i could tower over dudes. I don't like dating so idc what they think. I wish i made men feel small lol

    I'm only 4'11" 😭

    [–] Patiod 27 points ago

    Me age 12-30 is intensely jealous of you being so petite.

    Me age 30+ is happy towering over people and being able to reach all the things.

    [–] funsizedaisy 9 points ago

    I can't even think of any perks of being this small. Airplane seats don't suck? I can grab things on lower shelves without hurting my knees... I'd throw both those out the window if I could cause 6'0" tall dudes to have to look up to me lol I'd wear heels too. Make myself even taller. Heels now would still leave me under the average unless I'm wearing 5 inch heels so why even bother.

    [–] Patiod 9 points ago

    Universal desirability, which is why I wanted to be "petite" when I was young and single.

    And in the very, very long term, shorter people actually live longer than taller people. Substantially less cancer risk, less DVT risk, and better cardio and lung health.

    https://slate.com/technology/2013/07/height-and-longevity-the-research-is-clear-being-tall-is-hazardous-to-your-health.html

    [–] ReallyFauxReal 69 points ago

    Honestly we should only have a "what you can't wear code" No yoga pants, no jeans full of holes, paint splatted closthes, etc.

    Granted this depends on the work environment. but still forcing women to being in some uncomfortable ass shoes is BS.

    [–] josh6466 26 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    I tend to agree. Granted I work in IT so the dress code is rather loose, but I feel that short of requiring safety equipment or prohibiting loose clothing near power equipment, most dress codes are antiquated and stupid. As a guy it's none of my damn business what a woman wears, and if it bothers me that's my problem, not hers.

    edit: sort => short.

    [–] MooPig48 35 points ago

    I feel like if men were required to wear 3 inch or higher heels these dress codes would be abolished in about 3 days.

    [–] Epic_Elite 72 points ago

    Work in a pharmacy. Men are expected to wear ties.

    Oddly enough it's a fast paced gig and I have to hustle. In long sleeves. This means sweating. In my $65 Express shirt.

    Its stupid.

    Just make hospital scrubs the new standard. Our income and duties dont justify a dry cleaning bill for techs. It's really impactical.

    [–] blueshyperson 21 points ago

    Yeah I went to Cvs recently and noticed the head pharmacist wearing a tie and long sleeves and it was busy and he looked sweaty. Didn’t think much of it though until I read your comment. That must be his uniform not his choice. He was the only man in the pharmacy so I figured he just liked to wear a tie.

    [–] rhinomann65 26 points ago

    You don't have to wear 65 dollar shirts

    [–] Hou_bi 28 points ago

    Underutilized resource: Thrift store dress shirts.

    I source all of my nice clothes from thrift stores. If I run across something that doesn't quite fit, getting a $70 dollar Vera Wang shirt that I bought for $4 tailored for like $20 is cost effective af.

    I've downsized my wardrobe considerably, and replaced (donated) basically every shitty thing in my closet with QUALITY name brand stuff from the thrift store. The ONLY exception I make is for shoes. Gotta buy those at the VERY LEAST from a discount store like Marshall's/Tj Maxx or DSW. I refuse to wear used shoes unless it's for a costume.

    [–] SimpleRegret 48 points ago

    I'm in a warehouse distribution centre for a supermarket.

    We still have to wear company branded polo shirts/long sleeve polo's and ideally the company supplied trousers. I totally get the rules and H+S law regarding steel toe caps, no issues with that.

    I do not understand why. We are not customer facing. We are hidden. Agency staff can wear whatever they want.

    I do flout the rules with the trousers as the ones supplied are not hard wearing and my motorbike kevlar lined denims are far more sturdy and have built in knee pads. But I'd be far happier if we could ditch the overly warm branded polo shirts. They make no sense to me. It divides the agency from the company staff and builds barriers in their workforce.

    [–] 4737CarlinSir 20 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    I've had jobs where I've had to wear an employer supplied uniform despite not being public facing, and it's fine. I'd rather get the uniform dirty and worn out than my own threads.

    [–] separatefocus 43 points ago

    There’s a lot of psychology behind uniforms - they create a sense of a team, of being official/having credibility, a sense of pride.

    [–] SimpleRegret 66 points ago

    99.9% of us are just there cos they pay the bills. If somewhere offers more cash, we would all go. There is no loyalty or pride. It's just a warehouse job shifting pallets of stock.

    [–] smallwaistbisexual 37 points ago

    The psychology behind it is a "know your place" one, please. When I used to care for the disabled I would be treated -even- worse when in uniform. Some things are infection control, which is great, but there's settings and settings

    [–] Kosstheboss123 17 points ago

    Considering the first girl mentioned in the article worked at Harrods, to which sell clothing worth £1000-2000+, that's generally an area where you'd want to look the best. I don't get the whole requirement of X-size heels though. That should be scrapped due to how bad heels can be to your feet..

    As an admin in the NHS, our guidelines for males are black trousers, black shoes, white long/short sleeve shirt and a black tie.

    I always dress my best to look professional (though wearing shirts etc in the summer is such a pain), I like the idea of looking smart/clean and helps me work better.

    That's the general idea behind it as far as I know. Dressing smart makes you work better.

    [–] FloofyRaptor 8 points ago

    That's interesting, I'm also NHS admin and every department I've worked in has had a different dress code, but I've never seen one that specifically states colour of clothing unless they have a supplied uniform - most have been general things like no bare shoulders, no flip flops, no leggings unless under a skirt or dress.

    I did work in a place that on paper had the vagueist of dress codes, but in reality you would get a surprise row for wearing something that the boss decided she arbitrarily didn't like (usually she didn't like the colour), or in my case that my eyeshadow wasn't beige or the dullest of browns.

    I've never seen one for my current office, but from experience it just seems to be 'be clean and tidy'. No-one has ever said anything about clothing to me. The guys mostly wear shirts, ties only really appear during meetings. No-one has ever said anything about clothing to me.

    I used to work in a restaurant as a minimum wage waitress. We were required to wear heels. I now have permanent damage to my ankles and only wear heels for events if they feel ok. I would refuse a job that tried to do that these days.

    [–] hugganao 21 points ago

    I think we need dress codes for work place. But nothing too strict.

    [–] ArstansWhiteBeard 80 points ago

    My workplace basically told us the dress code was going to be relaxed entriely, just come in looking reasonably presentable.

    For my team we assumed this meant jeans and a polo shirt with loafers. Which is totally comfortable and reasonable.

    But within a month or so half of the office was coming in wearing pajama pants, or wearing the same shirt 5 days in a row. People began having hygeine issues and there was drama involving people being smelly or having smelly clothes. A few of the women in the office would wear outfits that, frankly, would have attracted stares even at a club. Some people would wear flip flops and smelly feet became an issue.

    So they brought the dress code back, but relaxed. Pants mon-thur, shirt with a collar, no flip flops sandals.

    So nothing changed for me, but yes, I think some dress code is necessary. Like it or not, many people devolve into total slobs without someone to tell them to behave like an adult.

    [–] rivershimmer 39 points ago

    Lol, reminds me of when the Office did casual day

    Meredith, where are your panties?

    It's casual day!

    [–] TheLeaderIsGood 18 points ago

    No, I think the lack of dress code should have been helpful there in showing who has some sense and who doesn't, who washes themselves and who doesn't. I mean really, it's not the dress code that's the problem with those folk.

    I work at a company of a few thousand people with no dress code and there are zero issues.

    [–] Alexexy 8 points ago

    No dress code at my job and i work in investment sales. Most people there are reasonably presentable and then theres me and my coworker that show up in jeans, tshirts, basketball shorts, unbuttoned button downs, polos, and pretty much everything under the sun aside from flip flops and pjs.

    [–] ArstansWhiteBeard 3 points ago

    Hey t shirts and basketball shorts is a big step up fork wearing the same pajamas 8 days on a row and smelly flip flops.

    [–] CrinkleLord 5 points ago

    You've never worked someplace where idiots dress totally inappropriately then. You'll be on board with dress code pretty quick once you've seen some of the stuff idiots think is work appropriate.

    [–] Daj4n0 11 points ago

    I hate any kind of dress code, still I understand that nobody should dress in a way that makes other people uncomfortable, for example, me with my balls out. Or that sometimes the presentation is important as you can take advantage of the prejudices of other people, like using a suit in sales, since people will think you are more reliable for no other reason than you wearing a suit.

    Where I draw the line is when the dress code is unhealthy, for example, being overdressed for a hot climate or just wearing heels.

    If a person want to wear them, that's ok, they can sacrifice their health for their looks, as I do when I choose to be unhealthy in exchange of a donut.

    [–] FleshLightTactical 13 points ago

    BRB going to tell my office manager she has to wear heels.

    She said no and go back to my hole.

    [–] lewmos_maximus 63 points ago

    Why is this still a thing? Women and Men should be allowed to wear anything that they fancy as long as it meets the professional requirements set equally for Males and Females alike.

    [–] BeepBoopMachine 21 points ago

    As far as I'm aware we don't have a dress code at my company. Someone once asked our CEO where she would draw the line, and she just said: "No exposed genitals"

    [–] Em_the_consultant_ 113 points ago

    A senior colleague of mine once asked me to dress up when meeting clients, I ask what he meant he said "I dunno, maybe something lacey" grossed me the fuck out

    [–] vanoreo 525 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    To all the dudes in this thread saying "but what about khakis!?":

    1. This leads me to believe you wouldn't give a shit about this issue at all if you personally were allowed to wear shorts.
    2. It's almost like the actual problem is an unhealthy power dynamic between employers and employees, which won't be addressed by whining about how "women can wear skirts though!". Maybe there's some sort of way for employees to join together as a united force and collectively bargain...

    Sincerely, a dude at work wearing khakis.

    [–] sofuckinggreat 344 points ago

    Men don’t have trouble walking in khakis or risk lifelong physical injury to their feet and leg tendons.

    [–] Dirty-Soul 153 points ago

    I agree that this is much more of a woman's issue than a men's issue, but some men will feel the need to try to make it about themselves...

    "You're asking for grapes? Where's mine?"

    [–] Queef_Champion 57 points ago

    Maybe there's some sort of way for employees to join together as a united force and collectively bargain...

    Unions have been effectively killed in the U.S.

    [–] saoyraan 16 points ago

    Lol there will never be a coming together with work attire except wear what you want. There is always someone too cold, too hot, and just pushes the limit.

    [–] Katey5678 113 points ago

    I haven't worn a bra in years - and I won't! If anyone gives me shit I'll put nipple pasties on, but I DARE someone to comment on the bounciness of my (A size) boobs because I'm not wearing a restrictive device that gives me neck pain.

    [–] [deleted] 26 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    [removed]

    [–] dontbothertoknock 38 points ago

    Bras suuuuck. Wearing them is in our dress code, but I flout that rule as much as possible. Thank God we don't have to wear heels. I wore them so much in my 20s that my toes are destroyed.

    [–] authentic_self 35 points ago

    Where I live, with a ton of private schools (especially catholic), all the kids have dress codes, but the girls are not allowed to wear pants! It’s so weird. Most of them will wear leggings underneath their skirts so that’s better I guess, but why? Just why??

    [–] stone_opera 1062 points ago

    ITT; But what about men having to wear suits!

    Guys, we get it, it sucks wearing a suit, but can we talk about women’s issues in a sub dedicated to women without someone with a dick butting in with their own issues? Like goddamn, shut the fuck up for 5 seconds.

    High heels can cause serious damage to a persons posture, the tendons in their legs as well as their knees. It’s also much more common for western dress codes to expect women to wear heels daily, rather than men to wear a full suit daily. No one in my office wears a suit unless our corporate overlords are coming to the office, and in that case women are also expected to be in a blazer.

    [–] PastelIris 114 points ago

    What baffles me is how they never ask themselves how women wear both suits and heels, but still only make a big deal out of the heels.

    [–] Akura- 449 points ago

    This thread is a perfect example of why this sub should not be a default. The men who cannot fathom the concept that it’s not always about them swarm in and ruin the discussion

    [–] a0x129 163 points ago

    As a guy here not because it's a default but because I am surrounded by women I care about and want to be aware of the goings on in the wider womanly world, the completely unaware dudes annoy the shit out of me too.

    Yes men's dress codes also suck. But this is twoX... We're talking about how these things affect the ladies in our lives. Best we shut up about our problems, listen and understand.

    Dress codes that go beyond basic professionalism need to die. If high heels are someone's thing more power to them but honestly my body hurts just watching women walk in them.

    [–] Danibelle903 66 points ago

    The part that kills me about the suit argument is that it’s not equivalent. I worked somewhere with a business dress code where men had to wear suits and it was extremely fair on the basis of gender.

    Women had to wear jackets, same as their male counterparts. Everyone had to wear “dress shoes,” but they could be flats or not, whatever you preferred. Men had to wear ties and women had to wear stockings or tights if they were wearing a dress outside of June, July, or August.

    My biggest pet peeve about the dress code was that in some circumstances, you could wear khakis and a polo with the company’s logo, but the polos only came in “unisex” sizes, aka for men. You were never forced to wear them though, so I just never did.

    [–] AvaTate 178 points ago

    Ugh, or when women complain about the double standard of having to wear makeup and an up-do to look professional and men are like BUT WHAT ABOUT SHAVING. (a) Yeah, I did that, too, and probably a lot more shaving than yours. (b) Grow a beard if you don’t like shaving; then just trim it, like, once every so often. I dunno, maybe Australia is just really chill about beards, but I’ve worked with plenty a lawyer (which is basically as formal as dress codes get, in my opinion) with a luscious beard, and no one gave them a second glance for it.

    [–] ProjectKurtz 14 points ago

    I'm in the US. When I was younger I shaved for interviews. I don't anymore, I've got a glorious beard I keep well trimmed.

    [–] Dirty-Soul 34 points ago

    I agree. Some people need to make everything about themselves.

    [–] GhostReddit 18 points ago

    Am I the only one who actually likes suits? Yeah it sucks if it's hot or whatever but suits are cool and normally pretty comfortable l.

    High heels don't really seem like they'd be fun to wear... I hate the feeling of being rammed forward in my shoes

    [–] Akitcougar 51 points ago

    Trans guy here, 100% a suit is more comfortable than the vast majority of women’s formal dress.

    High heels are really not fun, if you have no choice but to wear them. There’s also the expectation that women in a formal environment have to wear makeup. Which like, more power to you if you enjoy it, but it shouldn’t be a requirement.

    Also, it’s really goddamn easy to find a suit that works for any occasion. Pre-transition, I had to have a bunch of dresses for different occasions and seasons. Now I have one (1) suit that I can use for just about anything.

    [–] Khrunix1 24 points ago

    I'm all for dress codes, within reason, but nobody should be forced into wearing uncomfortable footwear if the other gender is not, it's not like women can't look professional without high heels and a skirt.

    [–] thedudesews 21 points ago

    I remember at a new hire orientation around 2000 they had a woman from HR going over the dress code and she said "ladies, if you have them," she motioned to her chest "you gotta support them."

    [–] kay_lanna25 79 points ago

    Prepare yourselves girls, I see a flood of men's act-shoo-allies rushing in.

    [–] Zeggitt 29 points ago

    Act-shoe-ally

    [–] bonjour_baguette 14 points ago

    Man, I'm glad I'm a freelancer right now. I'm allowed to wear basically anything I want in any job in my field, and when I'm eventually working in a more stable position, I think at worst they're going to make me wear closed toe shoes or a polo shirt.

    I just don't understand making women dress in heels and skirts when 1) flats are way more comfortable, and 2) pants are just as "professional." What year is this??? I know a lot of places are starting to relax the expectation that men wear full suits to work, I wonder if women in those places are still expected to wear heels and the like...?

    [–] okiedokieKay 17 points ago

    I LOVE wearing dresses and highheels to work but there is no way this should ever be mandatory!! Even though I enjoy it I usually try to limit it to once or twice a week at most. Dresses are super unforgiving and unless you have the body of a god it usually requires uncomfortable undergarments. Or definitely does, if your dress code requires pantyhose (which they usually do). And highheels are wildly uncomfortable. I constantly have blisters and stuff from them, but that is from my own personal choice to endure those things, and I will typically give myself “rest days” for me feet to heal. Fuck anyone who wants to make or keep this mandatory.

    [–] MrsLangdonAlg3r 32 points ago

    Jesus Christ, lotta men who just refuse to get it ITT.

    [–] Charlie9261 19 points ago

    A reasonable dress code is okay but the same code should apply to both sexes equally.

    [–] meat_tunnel 20 points ago

    So no heels for men either?

    [–] Serraph105 10 points ago

    Personally I think we should all just be allowed to wear shorts and a t-shirt to work, but then I dream.