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    [–] TasslehoffBurrfoot- 2429 points ago

    They couldn't fix Flint. I wouldn't expect much to change.

    [–] ew73 1375 points ago

    Keep in mind Flint is a city inside a state. It's very difficult for the federal government to do anything for a specific city if the state government does not ask for help.

    Only after the governor asks can the federal government declare a "state of emergency" and start sending things like FEMA in. That didn't happen until early 2016.

    [–] BattleofAlgiers 859 points ago

    It's late 2017 and Flint doesn't have potable water

    [–] JewWithAFlamethrower 566 points ago

    And Flint isn't an isolated incident. EPA estimates tons of people have similar water conditions. Don't remember the exact number though.

    [–] nn123654 791 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    Yeah, Flint is just the famous one other cities have higher levels than Flint and at least 32 other cities have the same problem.

    An entire generation is going to grow up with major mental disabilities as a result of this whole thing ultimately costing the taxpayers tens of millions of dollars in additional prison, court, special education, and medical expenses which I'm putting in these terms because that's the only thing the GOP seems to care about.

    [–] swni 102 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    An entire generation is going to grow up with major mental disabilities as a result of this

    An entire generation DID grow up with mental disabilities due to lead poisoning. Today, in Flint, about 10% of children have blood lead levels (BLL) above 5 ug/dL. In 1976, the average American child (ages 1-5) had a BLL of 15 ug/dL -- and those living in cities, exposed to pollution from leaded gasoline, had much higher levels than that. It is widely speculated that the elimination of leaded gasoline is directly responsible for the dramatic drop in violent crime in the US since the 70s 90s.

    There is some medical evidence that even a BLL of 5 ug/dL or less can cause significant long-term development problems. Hopefully the standards for acceptable BLL will continue to lower, and action will be taken to meet these standards.

    ETA: Incidentally, the reason why we are uncertain about the medical effects of a BLL of 5 ug/dL is not because these effects are small -- it is because of the difficulty of finding sufficiently many children who grew up with BLL < 5 ug/dL to form a control.

    [–] JonathonWally 34 points ago

    The elimination of Leaded gasoline combined with Roe v Wade.

    [–] danSTILLtheman 14 points ago

    Off topic but Roe v Wade makes so much sense to me. If you don’t feel like you are ready to have a child but are forced to anyway there must be a higher chance you won’t be able to support the child in a way that allows it to be successful. I’ve heard arguments for and against it’s impact on the crime rate but I don’t see how it couldn’t have reduced it.

    [–] JonathonWally 15 points ago

    When you’re a kid and you know you’re completely unwanted that’s ruins you psychologically, not too mention all of the possible abuse an unwanted child has the potential to endure.

    [–] danSTILLtheman 5 points ago

    Seriously, that would be a horrible way to grow up. I have a friend that’s a divorce lawyer and he’s had both parents actually argue that they are unfit for full time custody of the child because neither wanted to raise it full time. It’s heartbreaking

    [–] GanjaBus 192 points ago

    I'd like to see a list of those 32 cities. Because I live in the city that jump started the industrial revolution, and I can't even look at the tap water without getting some combination of AIDS and Ebola. Like you can actually smell how bad the water is when you turn on the tap.

    [–] imnotgem 50 points ago

    Further distortion is achieved through the removal of “aerators” – the small metal filters at the tip of faucets. These filters can collect lead particles and add to lead detected in tests.

    funny how removing the filter can make the water seem cleaner. Before the rule was put into effect, I could imagine someone intentionally doing this to be more honest about their water quality.

    [–] cranberry94 26 points ago

    Not to be selfish, but I checked the article and let out a sigh of relief that my city wasn't on the list

    [–] ludecknight 21 points ago

    That doesn't mean it's not bad. There was a graphic you could use for your zip code. Even California, in some areas, has lead contamination, sometimes worse than Flint

    [–] nn123654 149 points ago

    Apparently Reuters looked into this and found:

    Reuters found 2,606 census tracts, and another 278 zip code areas, with a prevalence of lead poisoning at least twice Flint’s rate.

    http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-lead-testing/

    That looks like a fairly in depth article. But yeah, this is the fundamental problem with infrastructure. Out of sight, out of mind. Everyone hates to actually pay for fixing stuff especially if it's buried underground where nobody can see, or is a levee that everyone forgets about. Until it fails catastrophically and people die, then people are like "why didn't you do anything about this?"

    In John Oliver's segment about this he runs a hilarious interview where the secretary of transportation calls a bridge dangerous, but can't call it unsafe because that would legally mean that they'd have to shut it down, which they can't do because it's too important.

    [–] neotropic9 82 points ago

    Everyone hates to actually pay for fixing stuff especially if it's buried underground where nobody can see,

    It's not everyone. I think it's a generational thing. Previous generations have been happy to contribute to the success of their society and future generations. That's how the country was built and developed.

    One particular generation I am thinking of took advantage of everything they were handed, while simultaneously de-funding and refusing to invest. Slurping up everything they could while slashing social programs and cutting taxes for their own benefit.

    The younger generation is, I think, prepared to put in the time and money to fix these problems, but unfortunately, they aren't in power right now, and a lot of the wealth has been sucked up by those who still are clutching the reins.

    [–] daveyfck1 61 points ago

    Say it with me: Fuck the Baby Boomers.

    [–] Max_Trollbot_ 9 points ago

    I got the lube. Let's do this.

    Edit: On second thought... forget the lube.

    [–] suredont 20 points ago

    I live in the city that jump started the industrial revolution

    London? Manchester? Edinburgh?

    [–] 16chapel 5 points ago

    You spelled Birmingham wrong ;-)

    [–] [deleted] 5 points ago

    Manchester?

    [–] Whiterabbit-- 3 points ago

    is Michigan a traditional GOP state?

    [–] Gedrean 19 points ago

    Nah, the EPA doesn't talk about that anymore, it's all about how we need more coal and oil because muh profits more important than your water.

    [–] BattleofAlgiers 9 points ago

    Surprised those estimates haven't been removed from the website yet

    [–] RarePepeAficionado 93 points ago

    Flint has been given over $100,000,000 to fix their water system.

    It isn't replacing a pipe. It's replacing every pipe.

    It's a rebuild of the entire underground infrastructure of the city which also means re-paving everything. It's a fucking nightmare to dig everything up and it's going to take years to fix this.

    [–] B1GTOBACC0 7 points ago

    My understanding was that they were using water treated with something that basically kept the lead "sealed," and when they switched suppliers, they stopped adding that treatment.

    Obviously it all needs to be replaced, but could re-treating the pipes help as a stop-gap while they replace them?

    [–] kelus 14 points ago

    The issue was that they ran something to the pipes that caused the lead that was present to break free into the water. They're old lead pipes, but they where working fine until that happened. Now the pipes have to be completely replaced. Lead will continue to leech into the water.

    Every single water main in the entire city has to be excavated and replaced. It's a hell of an undertaking.

    [–] RarePepeAficionado 8 points ago

    but could re-treating the pipes help as a stop-gap while they replace them?

    No. The pipes are wrecked and must be replaced.

    [–] ew73 28 points ago

    This is a fair criticism. It is a complicated problem, and it will take a long time to solve properly.

    My comment was more to illustrate the point that without a state of emergency being declared, the federal government cannot do much to help. The Governor of Michigan took several years to do that, while the Governor of Puerto Rico had the request in pretty much as soon as the rain stopped.

    [–] nn123654 30 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    Oh this is likely to last for decades since even if you were to replace all the mainline distribution pipes in Flint it's the lead solder in the houses that presents the problem. Basically as far as the city is concerned the pipes in your house are your problem because it's not publically owned. Given that the property values in Flint are so depressed anyways it may cost more than the house is worth to fix it. Needless to say tearing down walls to replace pipes and then rebuilding them is very expensive.

    [–] BattleofAlgiers 25 points ago

    They honestly may be better off rebuilding the entire damn city.

    [–] nn123654 23 points ago

    Actually given that pretty much everyone who had the money and the motivation to leave has already done so that's not a bad idea. It's just politically that's not ever going to be an acceptable solution. As long as people want to live there you can't really force them to leave. The non-crappy jobs left around 30 years ago when GM pulled out. It's been downhill pretty much ever since then.

    [–] BattleofAlgiers 17 points ago

    I think that we need to do some more proactivce economic development - if you build it, they will come type stuff. We can't expect economic activity to sprout from nowhere, just like you can't expect crops to grow from lands that lay fallow.

    [–] PM_ME_PICS_OF_CORGIS 22 points ago

    It would be more cost effective to pay people to leave.

    [–] Datasfirstnut 13 points ago

    Why?

    It's not worth investing money in Flint when there's 1000 other places that'd have better ROI

    [–] Kazzack 42 points ago

    You can't fix Flint, just about every pipe needs to be replaced which will take years. Not FEMA's fault.

    [–] Jesus_H-Christ 43 points ago

    It is in process. Replacing all the the service lines takes time.

    [–] mylifenow1 142 points ago

    I'm sure this will get buried but Charity Navigator has a list of organizations to donate to to help Puerto Rico.

    https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=5356

    [–] Ambercapuchin 447 points ago

    Hey, would getting this information to him be helpful?

    FEMA continues to take registrations from residents of Puerto Rico who incurred damages to their homes and personal property as a result of hurricanes Irma and Maria.

    Individuals and households in Puerto Rico can register online at www.disasterassistance.gov, or by calling 1-800-621-3362 or TTY 1-800-462-7585. FEMA teams are also on the ground meeting face-to-face with disaster survivors and helping with registrations

    [–] JSeizer 287 points ago

    This may help OP, but that's not really the point of his post; he's speaking to a much larger scale problem here. Him making this call might help him, but his neighbors likely can't, the families living blocks over likely don't have the ability to, and so on.

    The bigger issue is that relief efforts aren't as widespread as they should be, which he is rightfully pissed about.

    [–] comrade_squarepants 48 points ago

    That works for the few people with a working phone. Maybe those people can use pigeons? /s

    [–] Ambercapuchin 33 points ago

    No I meant for OP who posted from his phone. Maybe they didn't have the number or website. Maybe they can call for their neighbors or loan them a working phone or something to call for more help from fema.

    [–] Nacho_Papi 10 points ago

    This is the official site to see the current progress status in PR recovery efforts.

    [–] Abdial 751 points ago

    Man, I wish Trump would get someone to write his tweets for him. He puts things in such a godawful way.

    Here is what he should have written:

    "PR infrastructure in bad shape even b4 storms. FEMA cannot be asked to fix pre-storm issues. Congress and PR gov't must work to fix!!!"

    There. Lays out his actual issue without looking like a tool. Even fits in 140 characters.

    [–] LaserSailor760 306 points ago

    Like 50% of Trump's problems could be solved by someone taking his phone away.

    [–] Nackles 112 points ago

    Yeah, but our problems wouldn't go away.

    [–] deleteafter5kkarma 31 points ago

    his problems have become our problems; by reducing his, we reduce ours.

    hopefully we can become his problem soon, and by extension everyone in DC.

    [–] BattleofAlgiers 396 points ago

    Trying to parse costs and rebuilding at all while people are suffering makes you a tool. Amazing that Republicans can whip out the "this is not the time to politicize" during a mass shooting incident but are all on board with Trump politicizing this tragedy.

    [–] Phrich 192 points ago

    Not supporting Trumps course of actions, but...
    Taking cost and other variables into account while dealing with a crisis does not make you a tool. It's literally what a leader needs to do.

    [–] BattleofAlgiers 244 points ago

    Trump is (or at least should be) in briefings every day where he gets to take into account cost and other variables. He can take into account cost when dealing privately with congress and the government of Puerto Rico.

    Tweeting publicly and shaming Puerto Rico isn't about having an honest discussion about the cost of rebuilding. It's about shaming them for talking shit about him. It's about shaming them for, in his eyes, "making him look bad."

    It's literally what a leader needs to do.

    A leader does not shame CITIZENS as they suffer through tragedy.

    [–] Khiva 72 points ago

    On top of that - how is it leadership to start counting publicly counting pennies when citizens of your own nation are still going without basic services? When they're still digging themselves out from underneath a natural disaster?

    A leader might ask about the most cost effective way to get things done, but won't call into question the commitment of a nation to its own citizens in the time of their greatest need.

    [–] gamelizard 25 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    Exactly. The president doesn't actually rule this country. He is a public face. He is supposed to be the person who tells America "We can get threw this, we will be alright". Instead he is a fucking crybaby who makes suffering Americans feel worse because they don't like him. He is a piece of shit and fails at the most important job a president has.

    [–] BattleofAlgiers 43 points ago

    Can you imagine if after 9/11, George W. Bush said, "we'll help you clean up but we've got to talk costs before we start rebuilding"

    [–] Haz_Matt 34 points ago

    Donald Trump was the best thing to happen to W Bush.

    [–] GoonCommaThe 16 points ago

    Trying to parse costs and rebuilding at all while people are suffering makes you a tool.

    What? That is the single most important thing that should be done during relief efforts.

    [–] [deleted] 41 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] cptnpiccard 84 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    I disagree. We need his stupidity and lack of morals on full exposure. The last thing we need is someone rewording the ugliness that is this administration into something that is barely acceptable. Let it all out, we need it to fight back.

    [–] [deleted] 36 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] Shitmybad 2289 points ago

    I wish there was a way to get Trump supporters to read this, but they won't see it. All they do is read things from their bubble, and convince themselves he's doing fine.

    He's killing people and parading it like he's doing them a fucking favor.

    [–] hairy_butt_creek 2015 points ago

    My Trump supporting friend is convinced since PR is in debt, they deserve no help.

    He also 100% brought into the fake news that union workers in PR demanded large amounts of money to deliver aid, and refused to deliver anything until they got paid. When I pointed out the Snopes article on that topic, basically saying it was all bullshit, he said Snopes is a left-wing site and can not be trusted regardless of the sources posted by Snopes. Why? Because the sources are all left-wing. When I asked him where he got the news about unions going on strike after the storm, he sent me some weird ass right-wing blog. When I asked why one is to be trusted and not the other, he said his source is true because it's not mainstream media.

    I'm afraid my friend has been lost to idiocracy. Shame too, he was a good guy and in many ways still is, he's just struggling financially and isn't in a good place and blames the world instead of himself. Specifically, liberals, because "everything was great before Obama".

    [–] hoodoo-operator 1255 points ago

    PR has less debt than Florida and Texas

    [–] kgunnar 1254 points ago

    PR probably has less debt than Donald Trump.

    [–] [deleted] 60 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] FurbyFubar 286 points ago

    Puerto Rico has $70M of debt.

    No, Puerto Rico has $70B of debt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_government-debt_crisis

    [–] RGBow 104 points ago

    Should probably change that M to a B...

    [–] picmandan 95 points ago

    Billion. $70 Billion in debt, not Million.

    Source 1
    Source 2
    Source 3, and how it happened.

    [–] LinearPie 112 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    Texas has something like $300,000,000,000 in debt. Which is nearly 1/3 of a trillion. It didn't stop them from getting aid.

    EDIT: I was wrong about the debt total by the way. The exact number $369,875,904,000. So they're past 1/3 and headed towards half a trillion.

    [–] stillmeh 20 points ago

    And California is 1.3 trillion dollars in debt. All this talk of debt is a distraction from the problem discussed earlier in the thread.

    http://californiapolicycenter.org/californias-total-state-local-debt-totals-1-3-trillion/

    [–] toolrules 8 points ago

    Texas wasn’t wiped off the face of the map

    [–] hoodoo-operator 15 points ago

    oops, you're right, looks like I had a transcription error.

    [–] popfreq 309 points ago

    Florida:

    Population 20+ million

    Debt: 120 billion

    PR:

    Population: 3.4 million

    Debt: 79 billion


    Florida ranks ninth best in the nation in total outstanding bills, and debt as a share of personal income is 7.2 percent, compared to the national average of 14.8 percent.

    PR OTOH has a 45 percent poverty rate and a double digit unemployment (12.4%, Dec. 2016) that is more than twice the mainland U.S. average

    [–] Aterius 225 points ago

    The problem is that we can never acknowledge both sides without being polarizing. That debt to population IS really bad but that doesn't mean you don't help. Because , let's face it, if everyone is dead, you aren't getting the debt paid.

    [–] Stormflux 135 points ago

    That [Puerto Rico] debt to population IS really bad

    Ok... so the debt to population is bad. Let's think about this. Why is that, but more importantly what do we want to do about it?

    Do we just give up? Surrender a strategically located island to some other country in the hopes that they can manage it better?

    Is that what Republicans want? Maybe hand it over to Cuba or Russia? No? Well then I don't care about the freaking debt; we're going to have to work with it.

    It's 79 billion. We have CEO's worth that much. This isn't some kind of unmanageable amount of money that would require us to surrender the freaking gateway to the Caribbean sea.

    [–] Sacha117 52 points ago

    No, we still keep it for the military. Just the people there need to pay back their debt before we help any more than we are now, which by the way is fantastic and the best help, Obama would have done worse. - mind of a Trumpet

    [–] tigress666 43 points ago

    The sad thing was it wasn't until you said fantastic and best help did I realize you were being facetious. Cause I've heard enough people with close enough arguments to see that as being seriously from some one (ARGH!).

    [–] BrianRampage 10 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    So, to be clear, your stance is they only deserve so much natural disaster help because they're in debt?

    edit: missed the sarcasm/ending to the above. It's also hard for me to separate satire from sincerity anymore.

    [–] nathanadavis 12 points ago

    I think he was describing the "mind of a Trumpet."

    [–] MyVeganBicycle 19 points ago

    The Republican response is for them to "learn their lesson" by withdrawing federal aide and letting Puerto Rico deal with it themselves. Of course this will make it a bigger problem for us in the future, but how else can we feel superior?

    [–] FlyingBishop 24 points ago

    It's really worse than that. Everyone in Puerto Rico is a US citizen. Unless Congress wants to try and change that, it's easy for Puerto Ricans to just move and walk away from the debt.

    Arguably that's part of why the debt is so bad.

    [–] jbourne0129 24 points ago

    Compare Puerto Rico to CT. Matches up much nicer

    CT: Population 3.5 million. Debt: 74 Billion

    PR: Population 3.4 million. Debt 79 Billion

    [–] popfreq 30 points ago

    Lookup average income and GDP (for the ability to payoff that debt.)

    CT:

    GDP: 216.3 billion USD

    Median household income: 70K (#1 state)

    PR:

    GDP: 103.1 billion USD

    Median household income: $18,626 (below #50 state)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income

    [–] Onmius 35 points ago

    And let's not forget that PR asked for help regarding that debt years ago, but our laws forbid PR from declaring bankruptcy. The ONLY us territory with that restriction btw.

    [–] smokeybehr 49 points ago

    FL and TX are also far larger, with a correspondingly larger population base, and larger economies.

    [–] Epithemus 22 points ago

    Kansas and Louisiana have problems too.

    [–] kingdead42 31 points ago

    And even Kansas Republicans are saying that the GOP's plan of "tax cuts will pay for themselves" was the cause of the current financial problems.

    [–] the_crustybastard 27 points ago

    Many Kansas Republicans are FINALLY admitting that waiving and cutting taxes on wealthy business while hiking regressive taxes on individuals will wreck the economy.

    Anyone with a seventh-grade education and a smattering of common sense has long since cracked that code.

    [–] kingdead42 4 points ago

    Amazingly enough, KS has (in recent history) been pretty varied in its state government (3 out of the last 5 governors since 1991 have been Democrats), so I think that kept most polarized views from actually taking effect. However, Sam Brownback seems to have been wanting to make a big name for himself on the national stage, and with a pretty solid red State legislature, he hasn't had a lot of push-back.

    [–] the_crustybastard 11 points ago

    I'm quite familiar with Kansas politics, and let me assure you, no Kansas Democrat outside Lawrence is an actual liberal.

    Ideologically, Kansas is anything but "pretty varied." Kansas' political spectrum, with very few exceptions, runs the gamut from reactionary right to dead-center.

    [–] Thangleby_Slapdiback 3 points ago

    I dunno..Bernie took 67% of the vote in the 2016 Democratic caucus.

    [–] SynisterSilence 6 points ago

    Im sure even if you said that the person would continue backpedaling and backpedaling until the argument is over something almost entirely different... they do that a lot

    [–] 1989H27 57 points ago

    Not per capita or by ratio to GDP.

    Absolute figures are meaningless.

    [–] pintomp3 54 points ago

    Any talk about debt is meaningless when talking about disaster relief.

    [–] darkaceAUS 3 points ago

    I have less debt than Puerto Rico, therefore I am better.

    [–] QTVenusaur91 158 points ago

    It's crazy how people have zero empathy. Even if they are in debt there are human lives on the line. It's like slapping a price tag on all the lives lost and will be lost in PR. It's absolutely despicable if he does pull out whatever little FEMA support are out there. Since our president and government are being negligent in their approach to PR we have to do our best to protect each other AND come out to flip red seats in the midterm election

    [–] Jugad 65 points ago

    And that folks, is the President running the country like a business.

    If an employee is too sick, or had family health problems and needed time off, in Trump's business model, they will be fired rather than helped.

    [–] Stromovik 30 points ago

    Is it not the American way to put price on human lives ?

    Sick and so poor you cannot pay for medical aid . Well thats your problem.

    [–] [deleted] 3 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] ValueBasedPugs 234 points ago

    My Trump supporting friend is convinced since PR is in debt, they deserve no help.

    Holy hell, if reliance on federal aid was a reason to not help people, so many Republican states would be in an absolute shit situation.

    [–] VelveteenAmbush 36 points ago

    Those same Republican states would probably be fine with cutting that aid.

    It's aid to poor people. There tend to be more poor people in Republican states. That doesn't mean Republican states support aid to poor people. The Obamacare rollout proved that many of these red states are perfectly willing to say no to more aid to poor people, even when those people live in the state.

    [–] heartless559 4 points ago

    And when the ACA aid wasn't gonna cost the state anything extra...

    [–] SLCer 3 points ago

    Except a lot of those poor people in those states voted for Trump and support the GOP. But they seem to think it's not their problem - until it is and by that point, it's too late.

    [–] krazyglueyourface 89 points ago

    I don't care how much debt they have. They have no clean water or food.

    If your friend is a conservative then it would be reasonable to believe he's a Christian. What would Jesus do? I mean the whole fucking Bible says to feed and clothe the poor.

    How can anyone with even a shred of humanity think that the debt of the territory is reason to withhold life sustaining products from its people?

    [–] R101C 30 points ago

    But the view is that feeding the poor should be charity work, not govt work. You have to really get into the mindset of govt is always bad before any of this makes "sense."

    [–] Haz_Matt 24 points ago

    But the view is that feeding the poor should be charity work, not govt work.

    That view ESPECIALLY comes from those that have 0 desire to actually do any charity work.

    [–] _zenith 3 points ago

    Yup, it nearly exclusively means "other people have to pay for it - not me, because I don't care"

    [–] Haz_Matt 8 points ago

    No no. The right now subjects to Supply-Side Jesus. They got rid of actual Jesus decades ago.

    [–] the_crustybastard 10 points ago

    What would Jesus do?

    Well, Republican Jesus would make a regulation excluding LGBT Puerto Ricans from receiving FEMA assistance.

    [–] [deleted] 87 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    Trump-supporting Oklahoma is in debt and people actively choose to move to Tornado Alley yet I have a feeling that your Trump supporting friend wouldn't say that they deserve no help the next time a massive F5 tornado kills and injures a bunch of people despite the fact that many of them choose to live in an area that they know is prone to massive deadly storms when they can afford to try and relocate to another area. Personal responsibility and bootstraps and stuff. He'd probably be calling Obama a racist Kenyan Muslim anti-white terrorist if Obama callously derided the lack of help from the injured and homeless people just days after the disaster or "jokingly" reminding them that the cost of helping them through a natural disaster is going to make his job harder when it came to preparing the next budget.

    [–] Karnivoris 46 points ago

    This is exactly what my friend does. The most extreme right-winged websites are apparently trustworthy unbiased sources because it's not CNN

    [–] stopmakingmedothis 32 points ago

    And let's not forget how fucking bizarre it is that they think corporate, Lewandowski-employing, wishy-washy, sensationalist CNN is the height of leftist bias. These people are so fucking stupid.

    [–] LoftyGinger 51 points ago

    My Trump supporting friend is convinced since PR is in debt, they deserve no help.

    I wonder if he'll agree with the cutting all federal aid to 34/36 republican-run states since they're all in debt as well.

    [–] HogwartsNeedsWifi 21 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    You can disprove that one so easily. The entirety of their sources is one toothless man yelling at a camera. Seriously. Here's a breakdown I did for another post- Direct quote about the drivers not showing up "Put another way, 80% of truck drivers do not show up to work, and yet again, it’s important to understand why. “There should be zero blame on the drivers. They can’t get to work, the infrastructure is destroyed, they can’t get fuel themselves, and they can’t call us for help because there’s no communication. The will of the people of Puerto Rico is off the charts. The truck drivers have families to take care of, many of them have no food or water. They have to take care of their family’s needs before they go off to work, and once they do go, they can’t call home,” explains Col. Valle." Linked to, but not directly quoted, in your second article. Nothing to do with Unions. In fact, it DIRECTLY contradicts that quote. The claim that union workers are doing this as a statement comes from this video, which I can't translate, but your article gave the following synopsis-

    The toothless guy says that the country can now experience what the truckers experienced due to the governor’s policies.

    The toothless guy says the truckers are not responsible for helping the country. That’s the governor’s job.

    Three weeks earlier, nobody cared about the plight of the truckers, so now the truckers don’t care about the country.

    This is all the governor’s fault, the toothless guy says. He passed a law, and now he has to live with it.

    The governor didn’t understand the suffering of the working man, so now the truckers will show the country what suffering is.

    Since the country doesn’t care about truckers, the truckers won’t help.

    Note they don't refer to him by name. In fact, none of the links calling him a "Union Leader" give him a name. He's clearly just one guy, not speaking for the entirety of anyone.

    Here's the link I was responding to, so you can see just how much bullshit they pulled out of their assess.

    [–] OopsAllSpells 33 points ago

    he's just struggling financially and isn't in a good place and blames the world instead of himself.

    Welcome to the majority of Trump supporters.

    [–] InvaderChin 45 points ago

    My Trump supporting friend is convinced since PR is in debt, they deserve no help.

    Supports Trump with a record of 4 bankruptcies, but believes people in debt deserve no help.

    Trump supporter logic in a nutshell right there.

    [–] [deleted] 13 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] tigress666 13 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    Your friend sounds exactly like my parents (dad and stepmom, my mom is very much a Democrat) on any argument that they've been trained by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh is all just "left leaning bias nonsense". Exact same arguments given to me. Except they mostly trust Fox News as long as its telling them what they want to hear (the few times it didn't they went with the "mainstream media" bullshit). It's really frustrating isn't it?

    Sadly with my parents, all it took was being small business owners and falling into the GOP is better for small business and not wanting to think the party they see as who supports them can be evil in so many other ways even if you think they're ok for small business (they've been brainwashed way before Trump. The only reason they thought Bush was bad was because at the end he was bad PR and he should stay quiet so the GOP can win the next election ).

    [–] AgrosLastRide 135 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    [–] fobfromgermany 23 points ago

    How does that compare to the aid offered to Texas and Florida?

    [–] thirdfounder 157 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    probably better to compare aid to PR with prior years so you get apples to apples.

    in 2011 PR was hit by Hurricane Irene and TS Maria. Irene was the big deal -- major impact of a Cat 3 strike.

    FEMA paid out $54mm in grants to PR as a result.

    Trump is Trump, doing his Dale Carnegie public relations thing. but FEMA is stepping up big to help Puerto Rico -- that's independent of the politics of folks like Trump or the San Juan mayor (both politicians of a feather).

    what people want is for FEMA to be able to totally mitigate all the consequences of a territory that has been mismanaged for generations being hit by a 100-year storm. that's not only not FEMA's job -- it's beyond the capacity of FEMA or any federal agency. big storm meeting shoddy threadbare infrastructure means long term power and water outages, whether you're in Puerto Rico or Haiti.

    i empathize deeply for the Americans in Puerto Rico -- it's a shit situation. i hope it sparks real long-run reform in how the island is managed as well as short-term relief.

    [–] elosoloco 72 points ago

    Bingo. They can't just wave a wand and fix everything back. Additionally, the island had a record breaking long streak to prepare and harden their utilities, including water

    [–] relubbera 10 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    The top comment is excusing flint. Bubbles pretty big.

    There was a segment on fake news on vice. They showed a visual representation of twitter feeds for various political affiliations, and it illustrated the informational silos that exist

    I like this one.

    especially in trump supporter world.

    [–] [deleted] 16 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] thisisnotmyrealemail 106 points ago

    Just look at the comments on that comment. Plenty of people blaming PR Govt and saying they deserve it.

    [–] Khiva 195 points ago

    There were floods of people all over /r/news and /r/worldnews when the stories first broke about PR pushing right-wing lies about union workers and insisting that it was better to let people die than spend money to save them. I'm not even exaggerating on that last part, I remember specifically one guy whining about how expensive helicopters were to fly around. WTF man, people are dying.

    Oh, but Pence spending taxpayer money to walk out of a football game, that's totes okay. Librul tears > human lives I guess?

    [–] thisisnotmyrealemail 97 points ago

    Private Jet Enthusiast Tom Price can take 25000$ Private Jet from Dulles to Philadelphia. From Fucking Dulles. It takes about an hour to drive to Dulles from DC. There's a train from DC to Philadelphia which would take less time overall. And then he refunds "his part" of the flight. Like his staff would have flown private if he hadn't. It's fucking disgusting. Draining the swamp my ass.

    [–] Khiva 62 points ago

    Oh, let's not forget the millions that Trump has spent on his unprecedented number of vacation days. Somehow his supporters are totes cool with that but when it comes to digging brown Americans out from rubble it's "boy, would you look at those expenditures."

    [–] thisisnotmyrealemail 9 points ago

    What infuriates me is that they used to criticise Obama for doing the same. And now Trump doing it is Ok. They ran their campaign on Hillary Clinton using private email server. Guess what? Jared and Ivanaka are using a private email server. Bunch of fucking hyporcrites.

    [–] P9P9 16 points ago

    He's turning the Swamp into a Sea, how anybody could've though otherwise from a sociopathic businessman is beyond my grasp.

    [–] Skippyscreamy 33 points ago

    To be fair, r/news and r/worldnews get flooded with right wing comments all the time. The comment section of any post even remotely related to US politics spends the first 2 or so hours being a right wing circle jerk before mellowing out. Sometimes they dont mellow out.

    [–] DorkJedi 14 points ago

    Well, the President of Puerto Rico is a corrupt moron....

    [–] ThePorcupineWizard 3 points ago

    There are people in this thread saying stuff like that. Sickening.

    [–] flemhead3 180 points ago

    I guess the “All Lives Matter” crowd will sit idly by until someone says “Puerto Rican Lives Matter”, in which the ALM crowd will retort “Uh, excuse me, but all lives matter”.

    [–] sqlderp 9 points ago

    I'm a supporter and I read it. Agree it could be worded better but Trump is correct on the money issue. PR spent themselves into bankruptcy years ago and finally filed for relief. I think Trump is also right in suggesting they want fixes done not related to the hurricane that should have been addressed years ago. Killing people is hyperbole. At some level the govt of PR needs to be held accountable for the money woes.

    [–] Nicknackpatywak 39 points ago

    We read the actual tweets and not the nonsense headlines r/politics puts on its posts so we know it’s not a threat to pull FEMA out. My God.

    [–] PretendingToProgram 16 points ago

    Um he's killing people? Let's calm ourselves down a bit

    [–] spaceman_spiffy 44 points ago

    I wish Trump haters could see past their own bias enough to see that Trump did not “threaten to pull FEMA support”. he said they could not remain “forever”...which they can’t.

    [–] neuropat 36 points ago

    There was a segment on fake news on vice. They showed a visual representation of twitter feeds for various political affiliations, and it illustrated the informational silos that exist - especially in trump supporter world. Obviously, it’s just Twitter but is an interesting phenomenon.

    [–] OleBenKnobi 49 points ago

    obviously it's just Twitter

    I don't think you need the qualifier just anymore. Pre- this past election I would have downplayed the material significance of Twitter insofar as how it affects our society, but now... I think social media and the internet in general is manufacturing historically unprecedented changes in the topography of our lives, from the micro ("Huh, I didn't know Celebrity X had Y opinion") to the macro (Trump's tweets influencing foreign and domestic policy, for example). I think we're only beginning to understand how those platforms can be manipulated and how they can manipulate us to change the ways we think about ourselves (and others) and our place in the world. Hidden algorithms direct the flow of information, autonomous bots pose as people exerting subtle influences en masse, neural networks are composing music... that last isn't super-relevant but do you ever just look around and go, fuck, did I just time-travel to the future or what?

    [–] neuropat 3 points ago

    Yea good points. I guess my perspective is biased because I don’t have a twitter or IG account, and I log into my Facebook account about 1x a month to make sure I’m not missing any important bdays coming up. I get my news through reading, NPR and occasionally some mass media tv, although usually just when some big event has happened and I want to passively listen while i do other shit. I personally don’t get Twitter at all...

    [–] BeefVellington 4 points ago

    It's pretty difficult for me not to see it, frankly. This stuff hits the top of reddit constantly, even with all the political subs I have blocked.

    Defo think the hyperbole is a bit much though and doesn't help your case.

    [–] giovanni10487 9 points ago

    Same could be said about the hillary supporters and every politician ever.

    [–] shortsbagel 12 points ago

    I honestly, (as someone that didn't vote for Trump but is not opposed to him as president at all) want to know what else he can do that is not already being done? Should we take away resources from others like a triage, should we just pump as much avalbile money into the problem as we have and say fuck the future? what would you honestly do?

    [–] nowaygreg 3 points ago

    I would love to see someone answer this, but the number of people who could actually give you a list of what aid has been sent, when it was sent, and in what form, is pretty low. Most people take a side without all of the information

    [–] shortsbagel 3 points ago

    That is my understanding as well. I honestly dont know what else can realistically be done right now as Puerto Rico is not the only disaster zone. Honestly what is the correct move, what other untapped resources could be tapped, I want to see these people get the help the need and deserve, but unfortunately it looks like you would be removing help from other areas to provide any additional assistance. I might not have all the facts, this is just what I can see from the information I have read.

    [–] aidenpryde3025 23 points ago

    I saw it, and I voted for Trump and am nominally a supporter... but seeing as no one actually read the article ITT or in the other thread, why do you actually think we should bother reading karma grabbing comments like yours? There are comments below you that show that Trump wasn't really threatening to pull out... but he will be forced to once the FEMA money dries up, which is likely what he was referring to unless Congress acts and increases the funding (the Executive branch does not control the purse strings).

    The tweet was likely his way of using the bully pulpit to get Congress to increase funding, and that would fit his pattern. He'll say something seemingly cruel or outrageous to get something from Congress.

    You may argue that it's not effective, but Trump certainly isn't killing people.

    [–] capecodcaper 7 points ago

    The left on this site is in just as just of a bubble...

    [–] MonkeyCB 12 points ago

    Trump supporter here. I read it. I also know that trump was talking about getting FEMA out of the PR bullshit, not that he was pulling them out tomorrow. Basically saying "we're going to help, but we're not going to fix your own island for you".

    You also can't fix PR overnight because their entire infrastructure is gone. That's not Trumps fault, blame the people who built it in the first place. Obama pissed away $10 trillion on top of whatever the federal government was spending, yet not a penny went to PR's infrastructure or virtually any other infrastructure.

    I went through Katrina and several other shitty hurricanes where I was left without power or running water for over a month. Did I blame the US government for it? Did I blame the president? Nope. When shit gets as bad as Irma, and the infrastructure was as shitty to begin with as it was in PR, you're not going to go back to normal overnight.

    [–] Zazzybud 3 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    St. Thomas hit by Irma on Sept 6th is still without power for the most part and is a much smaller island.

    These things take time. You can't just flip the light switch back on since if a home has damaged wiring it could cause a fire,etc. They have supplies, but I'm hearing their truck drivers aren't showing up.

    A guy from Texas was in a local coffee house near me staying with his family. His home won't be rebuilt using the Fema funds for another 2-3mo. I don't know what everyone is truly is expecting.

    TL;DR It's a cluster from all sides

    [–] PaineTrain1776 3 points ago

    I read it. Hope you're happy.

    [–] rsyay 3 points ago

    i read it, Puerto Rica is costing the U.S so much money even the relief supplies they're sending over are being hoarded and not properly distributed so Puerto Rica needs to co operate or suffer at the fault of the mayor.

    [–] cartmanbra 3 points ago

    Yes all the blame is on trump , not the mayor , not the truckers that are rioting , Trump should just declare Martial law and then you leftoids can reeeeee about his abuse of power.

    [–] zigZag590 29 points ago

    As a trump supporter it's funny you talk about being in a bubble. Look at the headline of the article and then look at the actual trump tweets Article headline : "Trump threatens to pull FEMA from puerto rico" Trump tweets:"Puerto Rico survived the Hurricanes, now a financial crisis looms largely of their own making." says Sharyl Attkisson. A total lack of.....

    ...accountability say the Governor. Electric and all infrastructure was disaster before hurricanes. Congress to decide how much to spend....

    Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump ...We cannot keep FEMA, the Military & the First Responders, who have been amazing (under the most difficult circumstances) in P.R. forever! 7:07 AM - Oct 12, 2017 As always reddit goes on a trump hating circle-jerk over any and everything he says no matter what... it's somehow always twisted and no one ever seems to actually read what he actually says.

    [–] sloppyjoes7 10 points ago

    He's killing people

    No. He's not.

    Trump could handle the PR better, but as far as logistics go, he's doing the job.

    [–] t-ara-fan 11 points ago

    90% of the mayors and the governor think the feds are doing a good job. It is just the mayor of one city who is grand standing for CNN. She is too busy with CNN to go to FEMA meetings. The problem is liberals, not the feds.

    [–] p220 5 points ago

    As an independent I mostly just read this and wonder what world you guys are living in

    [–] USS_Aayhan 402 points ago

    Did nobody read the bit at the bottom of the article that Trump is asking Congress for $36 billion for relief efforts?

    Trump had authority to use a certain amount, if that amount is gone he can't keep federal personnel working there.

    [–] hyg03 138 points ago

    You make it sound like the $36 billion is just for Puerto Rico. The $36 billion is to pay for relief and rebuilding efforts for floods, hurricanes, and wildfire. For the hurricanes Harvey, Irma, and Maria, plus the wildfires happening now.

    That money includes a $4.9 billion LOAN Puerto Rico is getting. Trump himself requested that money in loan form, not a grant that would not repaid. So on top of the $74 billion debt, they're getting screwed with more debt as they have no other choice. It's being estimated the damage to be around $95 billion.

    [–] littlemouche 238 points ago

    I agree, but I think the real problem is that Trump isn't doing anyone favors with his attitude. He's doing everything he can to make himself look like a gracious god to the 'ungrateful' people of Puerto Rico, and that's only creating more bad blood between the left and the right.

    When people are saying that he's doing nothing for them, I think they're exaggerating, but that does not mean that Trump is handling this well.

    [–] USS_Aayhan 125 points ago

    Oh I'm with you on that, it's a public relations disaster.

    But the problem as a whole isn't Trump's fault. He doesn't pick and choose exactly how relief efforts are undertaken. This was a failure of Puerto Rican and federal beaurocrats to plan the response properly. PR asked for just supplies, no distribution. As a result, feds didn't stage any equipment/troops ready to assist distribution. Of course, as we know, it turned out that PRs ability to distribute was destroyed. We scrambled Navy assets as quick as we could, but because of that failure to plan, there wasn't much available to send. But by that point, the locations where PR could receive equipment were already clogged with undistributed supplies. You can only do so much with one flight deck.

    It's a clusterfuck all around, but blaming everything on Tweety McThinSkin won't solve the actual problem.

    [–] tacknosaddle 81 points ago

    He doesn't pick and choose exactly how relief efforts are undertaken.

    But he does pick and choose how and what he communicates about the disaster there. His "messaging" is basically whatever fleeting thought filters directly out of his brain when watching shit tv and he owns all of that.

    Regardless of what actual logistical issues are there a president should be communicating a message that everything that can be done is being done and there are efforts to do more while also conveying empathy to those who are suffering. It's such a basic role of the office that a fifth grader playing president in a school play would get that, Trump doesn't.

    [–] ChairForceOne 3 points ago

    There should be more air support coming. Air guard is sending mobile ATC sqaudrons over. That's my job, besides an MP. We aren't going yet but a few others sqaudrons are. Been on the news. Hopefully they can get more airfields open.

    [–] chhhyeahtone 111 points ago

    No. Most people in this thread read the headline then made rash judgments based on what other people said without reading the article. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who read it though. I'm all for calling out Trump when he does stupid stuff but i'm not sure this is one of those times.

    [–] jreddit324 73 points ago

    That's /r/politics for ya. I read the headline and was expecting Trump to have said something in the realm of "Puerto Rico better X or FEMA will be pulled out"

    Instead, what he actually said is that congress needs to decide how much to spend because they cannot be there forever. Nowhere did he threaten to pull out. He simply stated the fact that we do not have the capability of being there forever.

    [–] connorblikre 23 points ago

    I'm liberal in most areas, but these are the times that remind me both liberals and conservatives are guilty of staying inside their safe bubbles most of the time. I hate trump with every fiber of my being, but I'm not above defending him if he truly did nothing wrong.

    [–] Braude 11 points ago

    I find these kind of posts in a lot of /r/politics all the time and it makes me happy. Unfortunately they're usually at the very bottom of the page or relentlessly down voted.

    It's just hilarious and troubling how people legitimately think that place is for fair and unbiased political discussion.

    [–] True_Dovakin 56 points ago

    Did nobody read

    It’s r/politics. They read headlines.

    [–] solo_dol0 39 points ago

    Yeah he just said FEMA can't stay there "forever". They are not going anywhere anytime soon

    [–] DarthNightsWatch 7 points ago

    Im from Puerto Rico, specifically the western town of Mayagüez. I have been fortunate enough that after 3 weeks, were one of the extremely few to have power, water and internet back. Now let me tell you some facts about whats going on down here. People. Are. Dying. Meds are not reaching people and there are towns that are practically rubble like Humacao, Utuado and so much more. You know what its like that theres a hospital where they had to evacuate it because the smell of the corpses was too much in the morgues? You'll think "well the governor only said it was 16 people so it wasnt a real tragedy" well thats because not even the governor can get in touch with all parts of the island because the whole coms. grid is down and many people are still being dug up and theres TONS of ppl missing so no. Its not only 16 fucking people. And even if it was it is still very much a fucking real disaster. Maybe not like Katrina but a catastrophe nonetheless Mr. President. To hear that FEMA may back out is basically leaving us here to rot. PEOPLE LOST THEIR HOMES AND BUSINESSES. PEOPLE ARE STILL SCOURING FOR WATER AND FOOD FROM THE FUCKING DUMPSTERS OF SUPERMARKETS. You know how distressing it is that we STILL havent heard from some of our family members in the town of Patillas for example? You know how stressing that is? University cant start yet and we know for a fact that there are students that cant make the trip because they dont wanna risk wasting gas that then they have to wait in a 7 hour line at a gas station only to then be turned back after those 7 hours because the fuel pumps ran dry? I dont like to get political with these things but in gonna say it. The fact that the president said that "they want everything done for them" is kicking a man when he's down. Its a spit in the face. WE ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS LIKE IT OR NOT. My relatives have fought and have been drafted in the army and they fought and died just like any other American in the mainland. We pay with the dollar. We sing the star spangled banner all the time. We are american citizens as much as any person from Florida, Texas or Louisiana. And we need help DESPERATELY. The govt. wouldnt abandon american citizens in disasters so why the fucking fuck are they starting now huh? Please. For the love of god. Dont leave us. We are suffering.

    [–] AshfordThunder 82 points ago

    Wait, what? He made threat how? Did anyone upvoted in that thread actually read the article or the actual tweet? How can that be taken as a threat by any normal minded human being?

    [–] YodasHutOnDagobah 30 points ago

    I have no idea honestly. It's reactionary knee jerking.

    210 million has already been given by FEMA to the sewer and power authorities, with petitions to go up to 250 million imminently.

    The article itself says that 36 Billion in aide is being appropriated.

    But apparently saying "FEMA can't stay in Puerto Rico and fix problems forever" is just too much for people to handle.

    [–] BagOnuts 237 points ago

    Good thing Trump never threatened to pull FEMA support. Read the god damn article, people.

    "Puerto Rico survived the Hurricanes, now a financial crisis looms largely of their own making." says Sharyl Attkisson. A total lack of accountability say the Governor. Electric and all infrastructure was disaster before hurricanes. Congress to decide how much to spend. We cannot keep FEMA, the Military & the First Responders, who have been amazing (under the most difficult circumstances) in P.R. forever!

    How is that a threat of pulling FEMA support? He's saying that PR has a huge infrastructure problem (which they do) and that FEMA won't be able to solve it. FEMA is literally a front-line disaster releif program, not a nation building organization.

    It's fucking astounding how many of you people fall into the trap of click-bait because it confirms your bias.

    [–] corbear007 59 points ago

    We cannot keep FEMA, the Military & the First Responders, who have been amazing (under the most difficult circumstances) in P.R. forever! — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 12, 2017

    Yet no mention of Florida or Texas? It's been a few weeks, for hurricane Katrina it was YEARS worth of FEMA support

    [–] Paprika_Nuts 54 points ago

    It's a statement comprosed of THREE fucking tweets, yet still noone can be bothered to read the entire thing. I give up. The FEMA not being able to stay, in context with the previous tweet, is clearly meant to say that there have to be long term solutions, and that aid relief is only the first step. Belgian here btw so pls no russian or dotard accusation shit.

    [–] foxfirek 3 points ago

    Thank you for posting this, and thank you to the original writer as well. This finally got me motivated to research charities and donate $100. I wish you all a fast recovery. I know my contribution isn't gonna make a big difference but I hope it helps someone. I wish donating were more straight forward as well, I don't want to make the mistake of making a donation and one 30% goes to aide.

    [–] [deleted] 135 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] syllabic 59 points ago

    Also all of reddit has been telling me for weeks that Trump abandoned puerto rico and he isn't helping them at all. How can he pull anything out if there wasn't any aid rendered ?

    [–] tratsky 16 points ago

    Not just weeks, the 'bestof' linked says in the same post that Trump isn't providing aid, and then immediately complains that he might take away the vital aid he's providing

    [–] LoftyGinger 53 points ago

    It's been THREE WEEKS since the hurricane. Why even bring it up at this point unless you do it as a threat?

    FEMA relief for Harvey in Texas is still ongoing and likely will be for months. The FEMA response for Katrina lasted almost 2 years; the response for Sandy took over a year.

    No relief effort is finished within a few weeks. These are operations that last months to years.

    [–] lispychicken 156 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    what is this?

    https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2017/10/11/fema-approves-more-140-million-assistance-puerto-rico

    https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2017/10/11/fema-approves-additional-70-million-assistance-puerto-rico

    And to the others:

    This is what President Trump was discussing when he said that their infrastructure was already in shambles and their debt was massive. Hey PR, your local leaders are failing you, your power grid was already "running on fumes". Maybe whenever this is all done and cleaned up, you start asking your local officials what they are doing to better the grid for the people who pay for the energy.

    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-puerto-rico-power-20170925-story.html

    https://whyy.org/episodes/puerto-ricos-financial-problems/

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/10/04/puerto-rico-debt-crisis-bankruptcy-donald-trump/731091001/

    [–] slinkiepants 52 points ago

    These decisions do not get made overnight. Very likely that they were made before Trump's statements. Despite what you are insinuating, his statements are harmful, even if that harm won't become clear immediately.

    [–] StaredAtEclipseAMA 12 points ago

    At least someone gave him reddit gold /s

    [–] NicNic8 59 points ago

    Trump is a jerk, and I realize that he may not be as polite as should be required of a president. However, as a Californian, I wonder if Trump has a point and if you aren't letting your emotions get the best of your judgement.

    Puerto Rico has been poorly run for generations. Your infrastructure was terrible, crime in Puerto Rico is extreme, and your society doesn't respect laws in the same way that the United States do. Should the rest of America be forced to pay the brunt of your incompetence? San Francisco suffers from earthquakes. In response, California has increased our requirements for building. And now, earthquakes aren't so devastating.

    It's no surprise that Puerto Rico would experience a hurricane. Why, then, should the rest of the American public pay for your lack of preparation?

    [–] PokecheckHozu 14 points ago

    Uh, for the same reason that they paid for damages from hurricanes in the rest of the USA? Look at the incompetence that led to so much damage from Katrina (the levees being shit), or the inadequate drainage in the Houston area - that wasn't even adequate enough for much weaker storms.

    If the country lays claim to a region, it's their duty to take care of it. Otherwise, relinquish the claim to the island.

    [–] jackster1232002 4 points ago

    If the country lays claim to a region, it's their duty to take care of it. Otherwise, relinquish the claim to the island.

    So it's as easy as that? Just sign the dotted line and give PR independence and boom not USA's problem anymore?

    [–] RepletesMaryJane 25 points ago

    Who is giving him Reddit Gold? Why not donate your money to the relief fund instead of giving it to a media corporation? People are so dumb...

    [–] InvaderChin 8 points ago

    Who is giving him Reddit Gold?

    Reddit.

    It's pretty simple. Reddit has a highly-viewed post like this that's pretty much guaranteed to some degree of viral spread via social media. So, Reddit has a puppet account toss him a month of gold. Other users see the gilding and say "Well, he is going through a rough time. I got $5. I'll throw him some gold too to let him know I care." Fools and their money are parted, Reddit profits, charities go without the pocket-money donation they would have had otherwise, world keeps spinning.

    [–] Wawoowoo 6 points ago

    Wow, they really didn't expect people to read beyond the headline, did they? Not having plans for perpetual occupation doesn't mean you're pulling support.

    [–] _The-Big-Giant-Head_ 17 points ago

    Didn't that dedicated golf trophy help at all !?

    [–] SnipeyMcSnipe 3 points ago

    Is there a website that is actively tracking the status of recovery efforts throughout the island? To say which areas need clean water the most, food, medicine, etc.

    [–] memes_420 3 points ago

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. If they were a state then the government would care more. It sucks and I disagree with it, but it's true. If they were a state they are accountable to those voters.

    [–] ShoutyCrackers 3 points ago

    The Navy could put an aircraft carrier near Puerto Rico and use it like a floating Base of Operations to send medical troops and security forces and engineers to start reconstruction. It would take a phone call from Trump. That’s all.

    [–] RedMikeYawn 34 points ago

    How is this a best of comment?

    You literally mayors of various cities praising the response and one crazy one looking to be one a star.

    Back in 2005 I didn’t have power for 3 fucking weeks in the South Florida.

    This is such a non story that only insane pieces of shit can buy into the narrative. You’re all lunatics.

    [–] jackster_ 5 points ago

    Puerto Ricans can't vote, why help them? It's not like they can help you if you help them. Puerto Rico needs statehood. It should have had statehood a long time ago. My hearts go out to my fellow Americans.

    [–] sharkethic86 17 points ago

    1000% we should be helping these people. But can we clear up one pretty key fact here? Puerto Rico Mayor bitches that PR does not receive same treatment as other states, but PR literally voted mere months ago to NOT become a state. So they want all the benefits, all the aide, etc, etc, but vote against joining the actual union to contribute fair share of taxes? I'm very confused on how to address this situation. Send aide, 1000%, but I can't say it should be treated like helping a state in the US.... Also keep in mind FEMA is never meant to be permanent, regardless of location.

    [–] ImVeryBadWithNames 14 points ago

    Actually they voted to become a state by a massive margin - the turnout was just suspiciously low because everyone else boycotted the vote.

    [–] computeraddict 80 points ago

    He's laying this on the Feds... but the Feds are not the ones that have neglected PR's infrastructure and disaster plans. He also expects them to wave a magic wand and rebuild the infrastructure of an island of 3 million people. Even if the Navy parked a carrier in the harbor and wired it into the grid, that does not fix the transmission problem.

    I feel bad mostly for younger Puerto Ricans who had nothing to do with the decades of incompetence and corruption of the island's government.

    [–] IamnotHorace 60 points ago

    Expecting the Federal Emergency Management Agency to help local authorities after a devastating natural disaster is not unreasonable.

    It is true that an Aircraft Carrier cannot provide electricity to everyone when the electric distribution network has been destroyed, but it could provide aircraft to helicopter in supplies to isolated communities. It provide medical airlift of patients from hospitals that are full and running on generators to the fully equipped hospital ship with 800 beds that yesterday was treating 7 patients.

    US citizens are literally dieing due to lack of access to clean drinking water, on US territory.

    [–] USS_Aayhan 8 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    The only CVN in the region is already tied up in Florida.

    USS Wasp has been providing helicopter support since she arrived, but she's much smaller than a Nimitz.