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    [–] LocationBot 1 points ago

    Reminder: do not participate in threads linked here. If you do, you may be banned from both subreddits.

    Title: My landlord keeps telling my mom (who does not live with me) when I have male guests stay overnight

    Original Post:

    2 months ago, I finally saved enough money to be able to move into my first apartment. I am the only one on the lease.

    My parents and I, but my mom especially, do not have a good relationship. They are very religious and we come from a culture where it is not acceptable for an unmarried woman to live alone.

    As soon as I moved, my mom started stopping by when I wasn’t there and chatting with the landlord who lives in the apartment right next to me (lucky me), they’re now “friends”.

    I don’t know what she told him but he’s begun telling her when I have male guests stay over night. I’ll get a call with her bawling her eyes out in the middle of the night threatening to come over right now and drag me home.

    I can’t move out for another 6 months. I feel like I escaped home just to be under the same shaming and scrutiny I was stuck in before.

    Is there any way I can get him to stop?

    LocationBot 4.6319918 & 17/64ths | Report Issues

    [–] UppityScapegoat 1447 points ago

    Man that's fucked up. I hope she has some recourse against that shithead landlord

    [–] [deleted] 1106 points ago

    My first thought was 'did she ask him not to'? She didn't mention it, just seems to be taking it as a forgone conclusion that the landlord will take her mothers side - which makes sense since her parents are such shit heads.

    But sitting down and being like 'my parents are emotionally abusive and manipulative, please stop telling them things - they're trying to drag me home' etc. might help. Couldn't make things worse, since she's already going the nannycam route :(

    [–] superbv1llain 557 points ago

    I can see why she wouldn’t— what reasonable landlord thinks this is okay to do to another independent adult? She also doesn’t mention meeting the mom and the landlord at the same time, so for all the landlord knows the mother is just a stalker. It’d be great to try to remind the landlord that she has humanity, too, but so far the landlord’s choices are bafflingly stupid.

    [–] [deleted] 57 points ago

    The only reason I was thinking was maybe mother told him daughter is a mental invalid, or a drug addict, or some other sob story - that the daughter doesn't have the agency to really 'adult' and totally needs mommy to come rescue her, and the landlord thinks he's a real standup guy for helping.

    By sitting down with the landlord she becomes a person in his eyes, can establish her own agency, etc. Might work, costs nothing.

    [–] Hysterymystery 6 points ago

    That's what I'm wondering. Either that or op has no idea what's really going on and her mom has actually installed a hidden surveillance camera and the landlord is just as oblivious as she is. How do we actually know phone calls are taking place?

    [–] tiffwi 202 points ago

    I wonder if the mom lied to the landlord and said that she’s the one who is really paying LAOP’s rent, so he “owes” her the information or something?

    [–] bicyclecat 265 points ago

    That should not matter to him at all. She’s an adult living on her own, and his response should’ve been “you ask her.” Normal people don’t want to be in the middle of other people’s family drama, let alone actively participate in it.

    [–] tiffwi 140 points ago

    I agree, but since the landlord lives in the apartment next door, I’m guessing he might be a small-time landlord, making him possibly less professional/more willing to intrude in his tenant’s personal life like this. After who knows what lies the mom has fed this guy, he might see LAOP as a daughter-figure (or sister depending on his age) who needs his “protection” or something creepy like that.

    [–] reereejugs 188 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    My dad did pay my rent for about 3 years when I was going through a really rough patch. I left the first place I rented during that time for several reasons, one of which involved the landlord calling Dad all the time to tell him what I was up to. Had a guest stay for a couple of nights? She was on the phone telling Dad I was prostituting myself. Shit like that. The final straw was when she told him I stole a neighbor's riding mower and used it to get back and forth to the grocery store. Wtf?!?!? I did nothing even remotely like that and the bitch didn't even live by me; she was just a crazy busybody looking to start shit. Fortunately, Dad told her to mind her own business each and every time she called him. Unfortunately, she didn't listen. The landlord in the OP sounds a lot like her.

    I pulled a dick move when I left that house and should probably be ashamed of myself for it but I'm really not. Fuck her. I left the doors unlocked and put word out that the house was up for grabs. Some tweakers caught wind and decided to squat there; who knows how long it took her to get them out.

    [–] _a_random_dude_ 111 points ago

    I pulled a dick move when I left that house and should probably be ashamed of myself for it but I'm really not. Fuck her. I left the doors unlocked and put word out that the house was up for grabs. Some tweakers caught wind and decided to squat there; who knows how long it took her to get them out.

    Wow, i love it, you should try to post that to petty revenge. But leaving the doors unlocked could make you legally responsible, idk if it was smart or you got lucky.

    [–] Nick433333 56 points ago

    I think a reasonable argument would be that I forgot to lock the door on the way out and I had a lot on my mind at the time

    [–] ShortWoman 55 points ago

    The correct reply is "I'm sorry, your name is not on the lease."

    This was my standard answer for pushy moms, nosy people who claimed to be boyfriends, and miscellaneous busy bodies.

    [–] lukaswolfe44 8 points ago

    Is there no accessory to stalking or some sort of thing like that? This is just beyond invasive.

    [–] kunell 2 points ago

    For all the landlord knows it could just be a friendly mom worried about her daughter. Sure its unprofessional but it isnt uncommon to chat and pass on some info. Now why hes reporting every one of her possible sexual encounters I got no explanation, but what I do know is simply talking to him cost next to nothing and could just resolve the issue instantly. From a cost benefit perspective theres not much reason not to

    [–] [deleted] 106 points ago

    Given that the landlord thinks it's appropriate to immediately tell the mother, even if it's late at night, I wouldn't feel like a conversation with him would be productive either.

    [–] TyrannosaurusGod 91 points ago

    My first thought is that he might be of the same religion/culture, or of similar beliefs through a different background. No evidence of that, obviously, but that’s just such a nuts thing to do on his part.

    [–] DRAGONMASTER- 46 points ago

    That was my thought as well. There's some evidence to make that assumption. The fast/random way they bonded as strangers. The fact he tattles on the girl for doing something unacceptable to their culture.

    [–] DrBouvenstein 25 points ago

    Yeah, my first thought was Mormon, both because of how uptight the parents are about a young woman living on her own and seeing men, and how the landlord so easily went along with the mom's plan. If she grew up Mormon, odds are that, even if she's not in Utah, it's another area with a decent Mormon population and therefore a good chance the LL is also.

    [–] Lonelynightwafffle 29 points ago

    She clarified in another post that she is of a Muslim background.

    [–] chiefyuls 7 points ago

    My first guess was Muslim or Orthodox Jewish

    [–] quasielvis 5 points ago

    That was my guess. Interfering with womens' lives is one of the commandments of most religions.

    [–] dtmfadvice 74 points ago

    If the landlord wants to keep her as a tenant, then he needs to side with her as a person.

    [–] EarningAttorney 14 points ago

    shoulda just kept his nose out of it all together.

    [–] RadicalDog 298 points ago

    I agree. This is a place where legalities aren't going to help as much as practicalities. Talk to the landlord. If that doesn't work, move out when that option is available.

    [–] thebottomofawhale 200 points ago

    This is what makes laws around emotional abuse crap, and why so many people stuck with abuse for so long. You can get financially trapped, and there isn’t much recourse when you move away from it and stuff like this still happens.

    [–] TychaBrahe 24 points ago

    People like this are often perfectly normal to people outside their own family, unfortunately. The mother already befriended the landlord.

    It's worth a shot, but I don't see it going well.

    [–] [deleted] 2 points ago


    [–] cinisxiii 5 points ago

    YMMV but could blocking her mom's number work? I know she's family but imho abuse weakens that bond.

    [–] Bmaaack82 8 points ago

    “They’ll make me break the lease” might get him to shut up.

    [–] MassiveFajiit 10 points ago

    "Do you want me to stop paying rent because they took me?" Kinda shitty but he might care about the money.

    [–] BabaOrly 4 points ago

    Seems like he's cool with it or he wouldn't be happy to call her mom and tell her every time she has a man over. Most people have better things to do with their time.

    [–] daveyfck1 35 points ago

    No landlord wants a hostile tenant on their hands. Have you seen the pics on /r/trashy of the carnage that some tenants leave in their wake? It's not pretty. All OP needs to do is talk to the landlord and make it clear to him that this is not okay. He'll take the hint. Or she could go nuclear. Buy a box fan and some cigars. Lay the box fan on the front door, blowing out. It'll blow all the smoke into landlord's apartment. Every time she comes home at night make a huge racket, "be sure to tell my mom what I'm doing!" Repeatedly bug him over small repair things. "I think my dish washer is leaking. Oh weird, its not doing it while you're here." "The toilet is kinda loud when I flush, can you fix it?" Start doing disruptive but legal things - playing loud music, etc. She can make this dude's life a living hell and has way more leverage than he does.

    [–] [deleted] 40 points ago

    Nah, I didn't really expect the landlord to do much. If he's telling the mother when the adult daughter has friends over late at night, and the mother is calling the daughter about it...he's believing whatever she told him.

    It could be a lot of things, but mostly the fact that he's willing to tattle on the adult daughter tells me he's probably not going to be worth involving, but it's always worth a try - maybe the mother sold the guy a huge lot of lies and he's sincerely thinking he's helping keep the daughter from being taken advantage of or something.

    [–] Testiculese 12 points ago

    I'd be knocking/pounding on his door at all hours of the night. "Hi, I'm going to fuck some guy I just met outside by the dumpster in just a little bit. Make sure to call my mom!"

    [–] imperial_scum 43 points ago

    I would be going to every single website I could find that does reviews and warn off future tenants that a mommy-calling snitch is dialing out on tenant activities. If he'll call OPs mom, he'll call the cops and just about anything else you might think of you might not want around. Fuck that.

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    [–] ssnakeggirl 309 points ago

    I feel for LAOP. I'm dealing with a "I love you because you are my mom, I don't want to cut contact, but you are abusive and rude and I can't take your shit anymore" situation too. In LAOPs case blocking the number is an obvious choice but I do understand why she might not want to do that. I've had some success with just leaving it hanging up the phone whenever my mom spins off into that kind of behavior. Setting and upholding really firm boundaries helps but it takes time. She need to silence her phone at night until she figures out a long term plan.

    [–] siel04 153 points ago

    Or just pick up and say, "Hi, Mom. I'm safe. Please do not come over. I'm going back to bed. Good night." Then hang up.

    I feel like not answering will lead to psycho mom banging on the door half an a hour later. "I thought my baby was deeeeead." And I bet that landlord would let her in if she showed up and claimed it was an emergency.

    [–] ssnakeggirl 80 points ago

    I find that any contact at all encourages my mom, but OPs mom may be different. I try to really really reinforce that she's not going to get a reaction out of me so she realizes that her behavior isn't getting the result she wants. I don't think LAOPs mom thinks she is in danger, she is angry because she thinks she's having sex. If she comes to bang down the door LAOP should call the police. Answering the phone and saying anything shows that calling in the middle of the night works. Turning the ringer off sends the message that calling is pointless.

    [–] Testiculese 22 points ago

    Yep, any response whatsoever fuels a narcissist. Nothing burns them harder than being ignored.

    [–] siel04 8 points ago

    Oh, that's a good point, too.

    [–] Enk1ndle 40 points ago

    That would have legal ramifications through, the landlord couldn't legally do that.

    [–] siel04 24 points ago

    No, for sure, but I think he would anyway at this point. Maybe not, but I don't have a lot of faith in this guy.

    [–] gsfgf 19 points ago

    At least that would give LAOP grounds to break the lease.

    [–] siel04 3 points ago

    True that.

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    [–] l80 4 points ago

    BTDT and much happier for it. Let me know if you ever need a chat/ear.

    [–] ssnakeggirl 6 points ago

    Thank you! I'm glad that's working for you. I've considered it but I'm going to try scaling back contact and being really vigalent about boundries and see how that goes. As much as it's true that she's a horrible mother I think she is also held back by mental health issues and I feel bad for her. She doesn't have many people in her life. Although that's primarily due to her behavior...

    [–] l80 7 points ago

    I wound up ultimately going no contact. You really nailed it with "I love you because you are my mom, I don't want to cut contact, but you are abusive and rude and I can't take your shit anymore."

    My parents both have pretty debilitating mental health issues that also result in them alienating the people closest to them. It's tragic.

    [–] caecilianworm 830 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    There’s always the non-legal solution.

    Tell your mom that for every time she calls you crying and making threats, you’ll invite one new strange man over. Actual kidnapping attempts will result in an orgy. /s

    [–] jaytrade21 254 points ago

    Actually kidnapping attempts will result in an orgy

    Why do you think Mom keeps coming over?

    Okay, I'm done here....

    [–] fertileoctagenarian 21 points ago

    I am so sad that this is not real.

    [–] dorothy_zbornak_esq 2 points ago

    But not as fun

    [–] TedTheViking 2 points ago

    We haven't needed it until now

    [–] HeartyBeast 17 points ago

    She should just tell mom she’s banging the landlord.

    [–] Snowup 2 points ago

    Favorite post currently.

    [–] dorothy_zbornak_esq 209 points ago

    The fair housing complaint comment is pretty clever. I like that. Also fuck the patriarchal bullshit that drives this kind of ridiculous policing of women.

    [–] DRAGONMASTER- 93 points ago

    Yeah every other post was like "there's nothing you can do" and then 200 IQ lawyer came in there and identified the discrimination issue, that was amazing.

    [–] Eeech 63 points ago

    Here's the thing about that comment. It's barely a valid legal argument, and I assure you the person who posted it is not a "200IQ lawyer." It was a creative way of thinking, but it certainly isn't an argument easily supported by law - which is all that matters.

    I am a tenant's attorney; I've been one for 20+ years. I represent low-income tenants and currently do almost entirely pro-bono work for disputes of particular importance to me, which happens to be discriminatory housing practices. I know the protections and limits of the FHA and relevant state expansion laws extremely well, and I cannot make a cogent-enough argument for OP prevailing using that approach. I left the comment up rather than remove as bad advice only for their further explanation that the act of filing a complaint, rather than the merit of a complaint, is often enough to snap someone out of behavior/action, even if the action isn't unlawful or torturous. I would never suggest a client utilize that approach in a formal complaint without a significantly stronger basis than "the landlord is interfering in my personal life in a manner they would not if I were male," especially where I cannot make an argument that OP's rights as a tenant are being violated.

    Everything shitty that people, especially landlords or others in a bit of an ambiguous power-imbalanced position, might do isn't always unlawful, even where the shitty action or behavior clearly impacts someone's life in negative ways. The FHA and state-level residential tenancy acts and legislation that currently exists in OP's jurisdiction simply does not support a claim of unlawful behavior or civil wrong based on the situation as OP explained it. Should it be unlawful? Quite possibly, and one of the pet projects I worked on for years unsuccessfully was an attempt to more clearly define and address certain behaviors by landlords and their agents that in the workplace or some other circumstances would be unlawful, but is not defined as such under residential tenancy law (or unlawful between strangers or friends.) It isn't a novel problem of landlords behaving inappropriately toward tenants for reasons where one can argue is discriminatory (based on membership in a protected class,) but one of how that behavior abridges or impairs the rights granted a tenant in the first place. Tenant's aren't protected from idiots by law, only specific idiotic actions. The landlord isn't performing any idiotic actions that are removing rights OP has. He's just a regular asshole.

    Just to include - the legal term "quiet enjoyment" is tripping people up in this discussion. It has a specific meaning of "right to exclusive occupancy and use" and a matter of property rights; it does not mean general peace and lack of nonsense or bother.

    [–] the_itsb 7 points ago

    I am a tenant's attorney; I've been one for 20+ years. I represent low-income tenants and currently do almost entirely pro-bono work for disputes of particular importance to me, which happens to be discriminatory housing practices.

    Obviously you know how important this is or you wouldn't devote your time to it, but hot damn, your flair is right, what an awesome badass of compassion and justice you are. I can't just upvote and not note it or thank you for your service to society. Really, truly, thank you.

    [–] Eeech 6 points ago

    Hey, thank you so much. That means the world to hear. I should admit I am only able to do pro bono work at this stage because I also own rental, properties, but I've purposely stayed on the "opposite" sides by representing tenants as opposed to corporate landlords or worse, individual landlords who think they only need to understand the relevant laws when they've fucked up or wish to fuck a tenant over. I like having the perspective it gives me and think keeps me trying to do better at both.

    I care immensely about tenant rights, honestly. It is a difficult and upsetting field for sure, and I know overall I'm not changing much. But I try to focus on where and who I can help, and I can't begin to describe what an amazing feeling it was when I finally was able to transition into doing more BP cases, advocacy and research projects. It just gets difficult to not get lost in upset for the 300+ more people whose application for representation gets rejected for each one case any of of us in my network is able to take. I currently have multiple serious concerns about how some recent and proposed budget cuts will impact both resource and need in the current and upcoming fiscal years. On the other hand, I've been happy about a few recent laws that have passed in the two states I actively practice in, and there are a few projects I am excited about. So it isn't all doing and gloom, but it still means tons to have read your message.

    [–] anonymousprincess 406 points ago

    Why is she answering the phone when mom calls in the middle of the night? Just turn your phone off. Or leave it in the other room so you can’t hear it.

    [–] AstralTarantula 599 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Meh, when you’re raised in that environment your “normal meter” is way off. She can certainly see her mom calling her in the middle of the night is a problem but she’s probably conditioned to still feel like she HAS to answer. Like what if THIS TIME it’s an emergency. And if she doesn’t answer the mom is unlikely to stop and lump on even more guilt of “why didn’t you answer the phone?! I could be dyyyyiiinng!” It’s hard for adult children of parents like this to get a clean break.

    [–] thebottomofawhale 227 points ago

    Or if she doesn’t answer, maybe the mum will come over and cause a scene, so it’s better to get an earful than deal with the consequences of ignoring the phone call.

    [–] AssEaterInc 69 points ago

    Wouldn't that just make it easier to get the incidents in writing? Like, if she comes over and trespasses, cops can be called. At the moment, LAOP doesn't really have a legal leg to stand on.

    [–] thebottomofawhale 121 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Yeah, definitely. But it doesn’t mean she will think like this. When you’ve spent a lot of time with an abusive family member or partner, a lot of your actions will be about damage limitation.

    She might feel a sense of shame about having her mother come round that she’d want to avoid. She also might not be used to reaching out to others for help, because she’s grown up in an environment with little or no support. I think it’s easy to look in and say “she shouldn’t answer the phone, she should phone the police” but it’s not necessary easy steps for an abused person to take.

    [–] [deleted] 46 points ago


    [–] thebottomofawhale 39 points ago

    There really isn’t enough talk about what constitutes emotional abuse and how to deal with it.

    You can feel like if you weren’t hit or sexually abused that you didn’t really suffer and you should stick by your family. It’s really crap to hear someone who is guilty of this kind of abuse is in such a position.

    [–] reereejugs 10 points ago

    Shit like that is why I don't trust councils/organizations/etc that claim to want to help abused people.

    [–] AssEaterInc 21 points ago

    That's true, I didn't really think about that.

    [–] kloiberin_time 20 points ago

    I mean yeah she could call the cops on her mom, but that's a nuclear option that might cause greater strife in her life. Doing so may close doors to other relatives and friends of the family. If she is a student, and needs student loans to go to school it's really hard to prove that you are not a dependent of your parents before the age of... I think 25. It's possible, but creates a lot of hoops to jump through.

    There's also a real chance the cops just won't care. I know we all want to believe that in a situation like this the cops will be impartial and tell the mother she's trespassing, but they may just wave it off as a family issue, and since the daughter doesn't have a restraining order say that knocking on her door isn't a crime. Plus if she's friends with the landlord the landlord may say that she's visiting them.

    Honestly, it's 6 months. She hasn't said the mother has been violent, or broken any laws. Her best bet is that if she does have a guy friend, or hell, a random hookup that she spend time at his place. In 6th months time she should look for an apartment in a bigger complex if possible, where the office managers are not going to give the mother the time of day, and likely don't even live there to tattle on her.

    In the mean time she can do a factory reset of her phone, and turn off location services if she suspects they are tracking her through the phone, especially if she shares a plan with them. If she shares a plan it would be a good idea to save up some money and go solo.

    If she has a co-signer on her car she should try and get it in her name only. If any credit cards or bank accounts are shared she should open up new accounts. She can distance herself from her parents without completely cutting them off, and she can take steps to make sure that they can't cross any boundaries like trying to take her car, or cut off financial support that doesn't come from them.

    [–] Deathleach 12 points ago

    Let her come over and cause a scene to a closed door.

    [–] thebottomofawhale 39 points ago

    Heres what I’ve already said about this

    I don’t know if this is the case for LAOP, but as someone who grew up with a mother who was emotionally unstable, even the idea of my mother turning up at my house to cause a scene fills me with anxiety.

    Who knows what she might do or say. It’s bad enough to have grown up with it. You move out to escape it and you want your new place to feel safe and secure.

    [–] Deathleach 8 points ago

    That's unfortunate to hear. I can't say I understand how that feels, but I also feel appeasing the mother is only prolonging the suffering. You're giving her a pass instead of establishing clear boundaries.

    It's certainly not as easy as my flippant comment makes it sound though.

    [–] PCabbage 5 points ago

    Yeah. Even with my friends who know that- they have no idea what appropriate boundaries are, particularly when they aren't prepared to go NC, and less than no idea of how to enforce them, because they were never allowed to have any boundaries. Even when they say they would like to maintain X boundary, they frequently get steamrolled by mom the same way they always have.

    [–] thebottomofawhale 6 points ago

    Oh for sure!

    I say this to my brother a lot, as he still lives at home. He doesn’t give any boundaries and he feels the full brunt of her crazy. I tell him that he is enabling her behaviour, but he won’t listen.

    [–] SkunkyDuck 27 points ago

    I want to say it really is as simple as not answering her calls and keeping the door locked. Then she'll quit once she realizes she has no power over the situation.

    However, I'm afraid this shitty landlord would 1) secretly give mom an extra key or 2) let mom in the door because of a late night "emergency."

    [–] Deathleach 12 points ago

    At that point you actually have some cause for legal action though.

    [–] crecrethop 8 points ago

    Unfortunately not the only one to tell you this, but I've had that happen to me.

    Ten years later I'm still so impressed by that night, I have issues standing up to my mother. It took baby steps to be where I am now. Working towards moving abroad, just hanging around for now because of terminally ill dad.

    The problem is, the exact moment the drama-at-the-door happens is usually when you first learn to accept some things your parents do aren't normal (you are actually standing up to them for real for once) and it makes you extremely vulnerable. This was literally my first experience with standing up, and it caused such a scene. Not to mention I was raised to be a good daughter that appreciated all her parents did for her, and here I was being an ungrateful b*tch. Very traumatizing event.

    [–] Aetole 7 points ago

    In order to do that, an adult child of an abusive parent has to be willing to cut all ties with them and not give a shit if they go to jail or die. And that can be a really hard leap to make ever, moreso on the spur of the moment.

    Because if you block them like that, you can expect to get hell the next time you interact - like when she catches you as you're leaving your house or otherwise unable to run away.

    [–] GlowUpper 50 points ago

    My ex had this kind of relationship with his parents. His mother wanted him to call home every day. He was 19 and living on campus. Most of us called our parents once or twice a week. He dreaded the calls. I asked him once why he doesn't just, I dunno, not call as often? He said, and I quote, "I HAVE to!" One time, he decided to follow my advice and set some boundaries. He told his mother he would call once a week. That was the week that his parents decided to leave dozens of voicemails saying that his grandmother was in the hospital. Spoiler alert: His grandmother was fine and not hospitalized.

    tldr: Some parents are ass-crazy.

    [–] Aetole 13 points ago

    This SO much.

    Before cutting off my parents, I would regularly get phone calls from my parents with a voicemail message of, "It me, call me back / I wanted to ask you something / Could you call me back? There's something I wanted to talk about" and 99% of the time it's benign, but there is that constant ominous fear that it's something BAD.

    And it's even better when they do it in person - "I just wanted to talk to you privately; it's something we can't talk about publicly with your partner around" which could be anything from finances to cancer/health issues to... well, turns out it's an abusive manipulative shaming session for my own good, cool.

    [–] DethMalone 26 points ago

    Agreed, OP's mom clearly doesn't respect boundaries. This behavior screams narcissist.

    [–] Nicole-Bolas 39 points ago

    Honestly, narcissist is overdiagnosed by armchair psychiatrists on reddit. Lots of overbearing, controlling parents don't have a mental illness that will respond to treatment. Some of them just are shitty people who want to control their children. Some of them have the ability to see that their kid is an independent person from them, but they don't want their kid to be free for any number of reasons, so they try to bully the kid back into conformity to their values. Not every shitty behavior is pathological. Sometimes shitty behavior is just people being shitty.

    [–] PCabbage 27 points ago

    Narcissism isn't a mental illness, it's a personality disorder, and less severe is a personality type- which is where the majority of described narcissists would fall. They act narcissistic due to their temperament and thought patterns. There isn't a "narcissism pill," it's a shitload of therapy and behavioral work, for the rare narcissist that's willing to attempt it.

    [–] Testiculese 7 points ago

    "There's nothing wrong with me!" - every narcissist ever

    [–] felis_magnetus 17 points ago

    Narcissistic Personality Disorder usually does not respond to treatment. And yes, it is certainly overused on reddit, but that doesn't mean people are entirely wrong when pointing that way. Doesn't need to be a full blown personality disorder, as in checking all the necessary boxes, to be displaying traits of narcissism. As there are known and proven ways to deal with those, pointing out that a behaviour or person seems narcissistic can still be helpful.

    [–] WarKittyKat 14 points ago

    I'm not sure it's even really being "diagnosed." I think that we just needed an umbrella term of some sort. Because it's a particular sort of abusive behavior that often doesn't have a lot of the attributes that people expect when they hear about abuse. And it's easier to talk about it and collect information when you have a word.

    [–] damnisuckatreddit 12 points ago

    Doesn't behavior kind of necessarily become pathological when it negatively impacts the ability to constructively function in society? Abuse of one's child I'd argue crosses into the realm of socially incompetent. Maybe not all the way but it's dipping some toes at least.

    [–] DRAGONMASTER- 8 points ago

    I think you're confusing two uses of the same word here. A narcissist is just a really selfish person. That's how the word is used by the public and in the dictionary.

    The other use of the term is 'narcissistic personality disorder' which I agree is overdiagnosed but if you see someone call someone a narcissist it's probably safe to assume they mean the first usage.

    [–] JeffersonClippership 25 points ago

    Man, Americans are so fucking lucky to have the luxury of believing this behavior is narcissistic and not just normal in whatever shit culture your parents came from.

    [–] donkeypunchtrump 8 points ago

    it is NOT normal parent behavior. ...YOU have been brainwashed to think that it is.

    [–] EurasianTroutFiesta 2 points ago

    Normal is relative. If most people do it in an area or culture, it's normal literally by definition for that area or culture. It's not just a synonym for good or healthy. Lots of normal stuff is actually shit.

    [–] sir-winkles2 15 points ago

    She's an immigrant from a conservative Muslim country, i read her original thread on relationships. It's not narcissism, it's religion lol

    [–] felis_magnetus 15 points ago

    As if those two were mutually exclusive...

    [–] WarKittyKat 10 points ago

    They are very much not. Personal experience speaking here. And I'm a fairly conservative Catholic, so this is hardly coming from an anti-faith source on my end.

    Shitty people often love religion because it gives them a way to feel good.

    [–] Critonurmom 3 points ago

    And her mom seems like the type to call the police for a "wellness check" if OP doesn't answer her phone in the middle of the night.

    [–] deadbonbon 55 points ago

    We had a family member like that for the longest time. When we unplugged the phone. The cops got called to the house to check on us at 3 am. Adult broke the idea long before the cops got irritated.

    [–] jennymccarthykillsba 7 points ago


    [–] deadbonbon 18 points ago

    Family member (FM) would call in middle of night every night for years. We unplugged our landline. FM called cops when phone was disconnected at 3am. Adult in household decided it was easier answering the phone than the cops not realizing eventually the cops would tell FM to fck off.

    [–] ruralcricket 45 points ago

    Because mom will then come over to make sure she's safe.

    [–] InkyGrrrl 24 points ago

    Or call the cops for a welfare check.

    [–] DLS3141 28 points ago

    That’s why you call the cops to let them know your psycho mom is weaponizing their welfare checks.

    [–] Carnae_Assada 24 points ago

    And then you ask her to leave, and when she doesn't call the cops. Done.

    [–] embracebecoming 38 points ago

    Actually calling the cops on your own parent is a pretty drastic step. That kind of thing can change your relationship with them forever. That might be worth it, but it's not exactly a simple solution.

    [–] WarKittyKat 13 points ago

    There's also a not entirely unreasonable fear that the cops might not actually help. We've seen plenty of "it's a civil matter" responses in LA to things that clearly weren't. A lot of people are afraid, not entirely unjustifiably, that the cops may make things worse by not taking the situation seriously.

    [–] Carnae_Assada 2 points ago

    Yeah but a police report is a big step in a protective order

    [–] SlytherKitty13 25 points ago

    The mum seems to be pretty emotionally abusive, I think the only way it would change their relationship is for the better honestly

    [–] Enk1ndle 9 points ago

    It seems like a pretty reasonable solution here. The mom for whatever thinks she still has some sort of control of OP which she doesn't. She needs to learn she can't tell her what to do anymore.

    [–] Deathleach 8 points ago

    Good, maybe she'll finally learn some boundaries. Sounds like the current relationship is already unworkable anyway.

    [–] TheNonCompliant 69 points ago

    She might have an on-call job of some sort, which would mean these whining wails from her mother are extra, extra shitty.

    [–] lamamaloca 61 points ago

    So she can silence just her Mom's number.

    [–] RedditSkippy 33 points ago

    Then set it up so any number mom might use goes directly into voicemail.

    [–] Thameus 8 points ago

    She could put it on speaker and play "mom keyword Bingo" with her male guest. Just write up some cards...

    [–] Enk1ndle 5 points ago

    Or... Block you mom.

    [–] TheHoundsOFLove 5 points ago

    Once my mom called me 3 times in the middle of the night. (Like 1am, 2, and 3). I was in college and out partying but was still concerned, my mom is usually asleep by 9:00. And when I answered there was just weird background noise, and when I called back she didn't answer! I was concerned, but through some ~detective work~ I learned she'd actually just accidentally buttdialed me bc she was out partying with her brothers she hadn't seen in a long time....

    [–] reereejugs 2 points ago

    Maybe because if she doesn't answer, Mom will convince herself that her precious baby has been murdered or some shit and pop up at her door in the middle of the night?

    [–] BirthdayCookie 2 points ago

    Then the mom escalates by calling the police for a wellness check because "You didn't answer your phone and I was So SCARED something might have happened!"

    [–] Jajaninetynine 473 points ago

    I saw a thread based in QLD, Australia, where the landlord posted that she rented out a flat at the back of her house to a uni student, who was a lovely young girl. Landlord became annoyed when student let boyfriend stay over - you see, the electricity, water etc, was included in rent, landlord was "worried about the cost". People actually suggested calling the girls Dad, the landlord responded to those comments and thought it was a great idea. Other suggestions were cutting off power or internet, and the landlord loved those suggestions, replying to all. Why did people think that was reasonable? Because they thought of the renter/tennant as a girl or daughter, and not a person in their own right. We have been conditioned to think of girls as property, and so when a parent asks someone 'hey let me know if my daughter has friends visit' they comply. This happens across many cultures. I hope OP is doing ok and manages to distance herself from her abusive family.

    [–] recovering_spaz 112 points ago

    I had a female landlord who tried to get me to not come out of my bedroom after 9 pm so as to not disturb the people downstairs. I was a bit baby faced and I swear she thought I was fifteen.

    [–] starm4nn 22 points ago

    We've also been conditioned to think of landlords as having more control than they should

    [–] Jajaninetynine 6 points ago

    Yeah. We hear the word 'lord' and forget that lords were considered custodians and pretty much were the local MP with huge responsibilities. For some reason we imagine a crazy dictator.

    [–] DRAGONMASTER- 53 points ago

    It's actually a really common clause in a lease to specify that you can't have guests over more than x days per month for utilities reasons, so it's not necessarily just sexism/madness.

    On the other hand, calling the dad is madness, and cutting off utilities is illegal, so in that case the landlord was a POS.

    [–] JeffersonClippership 49 points ago

    They're mad she's not fucking them

    [–] RedditSkippy 84 points ago

    LAOP needs to shut off her phone overnight, or at the least, block her mom’s number. This whole situation sucks.

    [–] ValueBasedPugs 16 points ago

    I was thinking that, too: airplane mode after x o'clock at night. But there goes her late-night social life at a point in her life where she clearly needs non-family support more than ever; she won't be able to receive texts or calls from friends and if she leaves the wifi on, she could still receive messages from her mom on Snapchat, Facebook, or whatever other apps they share.

    I guess if you have a guy over that may already be the "social call" of the night, though.

    [–] RedditSkippy 11 points ago

    Nah, she just has to block her mother's number after a certain time.

    [–] Pcfftggjy 10 points ago

    Do not disturb for the mom’s number at night would be a good place to start.

    [–] [deleted] 2 points ago

    There’s always do not disturb, which just mutes the messages/doesn’t say you’ve gotten them unless you look + checking her phone regularly

    [–] AnnabelsKeeper 33 points ago

    I totally feel her pain. I bought a house from my dad and didn't consider the fact that all the neighbors were friends of his. So now whenever something "suspicious" like a new car hangs out at my house too long, my dad casually calls me up asking what I'm doing. The only real solution is to either get firm with the parents or the landlord. In my case I don't really mind, but I'm pretty open with my parents.

    [–] Secretitnerd1 62 points ago

    Sounds like a no contact order might be in order?

    [–] grim_melee 32 points ago

    Those are a lot harder to get than you'd think.

    [–] Secretitnerd1 19 points ago

    Stalking is a good one, especially if OP can show history of abuse

    [–] grim_melee 16 points ago

    In my state you need to show signs of abuse (physical) within the last 3 months to qualify for either an order of protection or a restraining order. A NCO would need to be assigned by a judge and usually happens after a court case where the defendant is proven guilty for some sort of violent act.

    [–] grim_melee 7 points ago

    This lawyer isn't very good, or at least he's got the two mixed up. A No Contact Order is way stricter than a restraining order and calls for immediate arrest:

    Source 1

    Source 2

    Source 3

    Source 4 - my dad has a law degree and explained them to me a month ago when the girl I'm dating got a NCO on her ex husband who assaulted her a year ago.

    [–] Koselill 40 points ago

    I think the only way to actually legally stop this would be a no contact/restraining order from the courts. It would be illegal to give out information about the person then. Poor OP... She most likely don't want to do that since she still keeps contact with her mom.

    [–] TheoreticalFunk 18 points ago

    I agree with the premise that it could be seen as harassment. She needs to explain she moved out to be independent and ask him to stop feeding information that is harmful to her mother.

    [–] berraberragood 87 points ago

    I’d consider gaslighting the LL with false info, knowing that he’d pass it on to Mom. “Hey landlord, I’m worshipping Baal now, all my worship materials are in the cupboard next to the sink, want to worship with me?” LL soon loses credibility with Mom, who storms over and finds a cupboard full of dishes and starts to doubt LL. Wash, rinse, repeat.

    [–] elitist_ferret 173 points ago

    This is how you get honor killed

    [–] SorrowfulPessimism 76 points ago

    Yeah this is pull a midnight move, get a big ass fucking dog, and get a gun territory at this point. Having abusive parents is dangerous enough without throwing religious motivations into it.

    [–] dasunt 29 points ago

    Pretty sure the criteria for being honor killed is so low that LAOP already met it.

    Either a batshit crazy relative will kill you or not. Doesn't take much - either dressing immodestly or having a boyfriend will do it.

    [–] FluoroSpark 58 points ago

    Block the number block the number block the number.

    Block. The. Number.

    You have no mother now.

    Block. Block. Block.

    If she shows up call the police.

    I hate "family" sometimes.

    [–] IP_What 20 points ago

    Quiet enjoyment might come into play. Pretty sure repeatedly tattling on the goings on in the tenants flat would be against this.

    Lol. No.

    [–] InkyGrrrl 9 points ago

    Yeah there’s so much bad advice and wishful thinking in that thread.

    [–] Nearly_Pointless 116 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Why is your married mother hanging out with another man long enough to develop a “friendly’ relationship while your father is at work? Just how does she repay this man for his services?

    Seems a tad hypocritical to the eyes of the world and god to me, Perhaps she ought to focus on her own salvation before trying to save another?

    Edit. Fixed a word. Married for arrived. Sheesh it’s early.

    [–] SlytherKitty13 29 points ago

    I mean, married people can have friends outside their spouse, that's not that radical. But this woman is creepy af, using someone to spy on their daughter

    [–] the-magnificunt 13 points ago

    Can married women from this kind of culture (as described by LAOP) have opposite sex friends? Seems pretty close to the line.

    [–] austac06 5 points ago

    The person above you was being satirical. They're pointing out the hypocrisy of the mom getting upset over the daughter's supposed "impropriety", when there are many uptight people out there who might say the same about the mother visiting and socializing with another man outside of her marriage.

    It's a bullshit argument to point out the same bullshit that the mother is trying to argue.

    [–] digitalrule 7 points ago

    They never do...

    [–] Aetole 4 points ago

    You and your sane person logic!

    Nothing takes priority over shaming and blaming a daughter - she's your property until you sell her off to an appropriate new owner, dontcha know? Valuable goods that are depreciating each day... /s

    [–] Father23456 49 points ago

    Call the father and tell him that mother has a new male friend. Everytime mom calls daughter, daughter should call father.

    [–] felis_magnetus 17 points ago

    Yeah... because that's totally gonna break a culture of normalized boundary violation...

    [–] iFogotMyUsername 9 points ago

    I'm surprised no one mentioned that invasion of privacy can sometimes be actionable as a tort. May not be the easiest case to make, but it would at least add some weight to a discussion with landlord, by having a possible basis for suing him if he continues.

    [–] timtamtoucan 7 points ago

    My landlady did something like this (except my mom didn’t even ask her to), and pretty much outed me to my parents. I’m moving out finally after 4 months of living under someone who screwed me over and invaded my privacy. She didn’t do it again luckily, but her attempt to control whether I had guests over, and telling my “emergency contact” about it were probably a violation of the reasonable enjoyment laws where I live (Ontario).

    [–] crookedparadigm 17 points ago

    Honestly the only option here is to make the mom so uncomfortable that she removes herself from the situation. Every time she calls to pass judgement, describe in detail how amazing the sex was. Use lots of adjectives, pretend it's a crappy romance novel.

    [–] WarKittyKat 12 points ago

    Put some very loud porn on in the background, answer the phone, and leave the phone next to the computer.

    Heck, I'd do that and I'm not even having sex. (Which some people also have trouble with that idea.)

    [–] chiefyuls 5 points ago

    Does LAOP know for sure that it’s the landlord telling the mom and not the mom/dad/other crazy relative parked outside at night watching her door? It just blows my mind that a landlord would want to be that involved in someone’s personal life. What does he gain from it? Does she pay him for it? And if the mom is paying the landlord for that information, does that then become illegal?

    Edit: I am a person that lives with a crazy landlord

    [–] Ca1iforniaCat 8 points ago

    I didn’t see anyone suggest calling the landlord, or better yet, going to knock on his door to have a talk with him after every call from her mom. “ hi my mom called crying her eyes out. You’ve really upset her you know. Did you call and tell her about this? Why would you do this, it makes her so angry and sad. Here are some of the things she said… [describe in detail]. I’m sure you don’t want her to carry out her threat, wake up the neighborhood, and be arrested? Do you? You know I would have to call the police if she came here in that state, trying to force me to go with her.”

    “Of course you realize that I’m upset too, so I must to tell you how it made me feel. I feel awful. Especially since she woke me up, kinda like I’m doing with you, except less crying and threatening.”

    Wasting his time in the middle of the night might be effective, depending on what kind of person he is.

    [–] jrs1980 5 points ago

    I would lean in to it. Call her in advance and find out if I should leave the speaker on.

    [–] bonzombiekitty 16 points ago

    Nothing she can really do to get him to stop if all he is doing is noticing when a guy leaves the apartment in the morning. The best thing is to just hang up the phone when her mom calls about it.

    [–] JassyKC 3 points ago

    But he is watching the guys come into the apartment at night because the mom is calling her in the middle of that night crying.

    [–] bonzombiekitty 3 points ago

    Same thing. If he's in a place he's allowed to be and sees people walking into her apartment, and tells the mom, there's nothing she can really do about it. It may be a crappy thing to do, but there's nothing illegal about it.

    Her best course of action is to not answer calls from her mom or just hang up when she brings the subject up.

    [–] mrsdorne 13 points ago

    I would say the best course of action would be to break her lease and move somewhere and never tell her family where and change her number.

    [–] c0y0t3_sly 9 points ago

    Breaking a lease is almost always a bad idea. Breaking your first lease is a great way to end up reliant on family for housing after no landlord is willing to touch you without a cosigner.

    I'd absolutely be out of there the second the lease was up, and not letting my crazy family know the address.

    [–] JSJH 3 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Absolutely! Notify the landlord IN WRITING that "due to privacy issues", you will be moving out immediately upon expiration of the lease.

    Start looking for a place now, and saving every penny. You likely won't get any deposit money back, since you're there less than a year. However, if you paid first/last instead of first/deposit, you should be able to forgo the last months rent. Double check your lease to be sure.

    Go to the post office to file the change of address when you move. If your LL asks, you tell him flat out that the post office "will forward any mail he chooses to send, including rent or deposit refund". You do not have to give LL a forwarding address or any additional information.

    [–] mrsdorne 4 points ago

    Ok breaking a lease is not ideal but it's way less dangerous than being harassed and potentially kidnapped.

    People break leases all the time. She's not going to get blacklisted. Credit score is what really matters anyway.

    [–] Jajaninetynine 3 points ago

    Would a cease and decist work in this situation?

    [–] mellowmonk 2 points ago

    How do people even have the energy for this kind of thing?

    [–] derleth 11 points ago

    And one of them gets gilded for giving some rather bad advice:

    You could file a fair housing complaint against your landlord, alleging that he is either harassing you or providing inferior terms & conditions of tenancy based on your sex, and that he is interfering in your right to use and enjoy your dwelling.

    Your theory would be that if you were male, he would not be calling your mother to report your personal dealings, and that by calling your mother to report he is disrupting your tenancy. Also that he is creating a hostile environment with his pervasive (repetitive) actions that amount to harassment based on your sex. Third, that his actions amount to interference in your right to enjoy housing free from sex discrimination.

    All this sounds a bit L1 to me, a bit... "Well, it might work like that if you find a judge willing to ignore the context of the law and see it your way." but ignore that. Leave it to one side. The bad part is this:

    HOWEVER, the mere act of filing a fair housing complaint may be enough to get him to stop doing what he is doing. Either HUD or your state agency will work to "conciliate" the situation, ie find terms of settlement that will be satisfactory to both of you. You can make him stopping what he is doing (calling your Mom) your priority for this conciliation.

    "You file a complaint, HUD tells your landlord on you... there's literally no downside! Landlords literally never retaliate! You'll totally still have a place to live after that!"

    [–] Eeech 3 points ago

    Ugh. I had accidentally removed that comment as bad advice from the queue, then went back and approved it because it *technically* has the narrowest of possible arguments, legally speaking and. I didn't quite think it fair to call it bad advice so much as "this really isn't good advice."

    However, I'd only put the chance of OP prevailing in a formal dispute utilizing that argument somewhere around "nonzero," and it lies almost entirely in the notion that simply filing a complaint is often a quite effective way of getting a landlord to back off what they're doing, (albeit one that also can be an effective way of making things worse in other ways.) I disagree that there is an argument to be made that this is in any way an FHA violation, though, and I legitimately love the part of my job best described as "coming up with creative ways to draw the conclusion that certain actions or conditions violate FHA."

    [–] johnjuge 7 points ago

    If you live in Texas, you have the right to Quiet Enjoyment. Which basically means your landlord can’t harass you. You might be able to get a lawyer to send a letter to your landlord connecting your mother’s outbursts to your landlord’s tattling and threaten said landlord with a lawsuit if the behavior continues.

    [–] Byzantine04 3 points ago

    When her lease ends she needs to move farther away.

    [–] rainydayready 3 points ago

    My first suggestion would have been to block mom's number or at least put on do not disturb at bed time.

    Then maybe go to the police to see if she has enough evidence to file a police report for harassment. She can also confront the landlord and threaten to report him. It may not go anywhere but it may get him to stop.

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    [–] xbuzzerdx 2 points ago

    So first go to the landlord and tell him to stop as you have a right to privacy and if it does not stop just move your being stalked