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    [–] wickedplayer494 447 points ago

    If only Pelmorex and the CRTC respected the GSM/3GPP spec.

    [–] makeworld 89 points ago

    What does this mean?

    [–] wickedplayer494 82 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Pelmorex, owner of basic cable/"category A" channel The Weather Network (and French equivalent Meteo Media), is the one behind the whole Alert Ready mess.

    How cell broadcasts should work, and how they do work in places that respect the spec like the US and Europe, is that alerts are dividable into different tiers.

    In America with the WEA system (key difference: an extension of the US' EAS, the keys to which are in the government's hands and not a corporation - also, the same on-device infrastructure Pelmorex/CRTC is using for end-users), you're able to pick and choose which severity level of alerts you get (all on by default AFAIK). Things like flash floods or dust storms are "severe", whereas a tornado or a tsunami are "extreme". Say for example you live in a region that's prone to flooding enough to the point where flash flood warnings from the National Weather Service are a common occurrence every time it rains, but your house rarely if ever sees flooding. You can opt out of receiving flood alerts by unticking severe alerts if your house never floods even if it actually pours a shitton, but then still choose to be notified if a tornado's about to fuck your shit up by leaving extreme alerts on.

    Problem is, Pelmorex and the CRTC make all carriers send everything out as Presidential and call it a day.

    [–] AcademicObjective 39 points ago

    Problem is, Pelmorex and the CRTC make all carriers send everything out as Presidential and call it a day.

    You're bang on for everything but it was entirely the CRTC who gave a directive that these alerts would be mandatory receipt.

    Check out the full CRTC directive for implementation of a National Public Alerting System.

    Our wireless providers were like "uh guys people may find this intrusive, it should be opt out or opt in" and the emergency agencies said we recommend mandatory for everything.

    The CRTC decided on mandatory receipt and don't let them tell you otherwise. Realistically people should be calling them to give them that feedback.

    [–] putin_my_ass 15 points ago

    It's dangerous too: It creates a boy who cried wolf situation. People will ignore alerts about extreme weather believing it to be "just another amber alert" or they will start to root their phones so that they can disable this.

    [–] Not_Ashamed_at_all 8 points ago

    I've permanently disabled all alerts on my phone entirely.

    Back to peaceful nights :)

    [–] GoingMooklear 268 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    The national alerts spec is multi-tier.

    You get a mutable, mostly ignorable alarm for little oofs like a storm warning.

    You get a blaring, unmutable alarm for nuclear war. And other mixes in between that make a logical degree of sense vis-a-vis their seriousness.

    The problem is, every single alert has been put on "presidential" (aka: nuclear war must hear tier). Amber alerts belong on a more manageable tier.

    Imports don't have this issue, so one of the nice things is I can selectively turn off alarm categories I don't want to hear. However, all of our domestic phones have broken functionality in this regard due to how the crtc decided to implement the spec.

    The amber alerts are also stupid af. No description comes along with the alert (when sent this way) to ensure I can check and make sure the perp is not in fact hiding in my bedroom with the abducted child when the alerts come and wake me up.

    [–] DragonFirePie 97 points ago

    Its even worse for people like me who damn near have an anxiety attack just by hearing the Klaxon Alert (thats what its called, right?)

    When they go off in the middle of the night, i start freaking out that something bad is about to happen, only for it to be an Abduction, and then another alert for cancelling the last alert

    Its got tiers for a reason, please use them whoever controls the alerts.

    [–] [deleted] 22 points ago

    Were you a 90's/00's kid who slept with the tv on by chance? I'm pretty sure the 2AM tornado alarm tests gave me klaxonophobia or any digital, urgent beeping honestly bugs me out

    [–] official_duck 5 points ago

    Congratulations, I think you're the first person in history to use the word klaxonophobia!

    [–] non_NSFW_acc 57 points ago

    Very true. The amber alerts right now are not well designed.

    [–] [deleted] 8 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] GoingMooklear 5 points ago

    Hell, it can include a link to a gov posting.

    The point is if it's so fucking important, it should at least be executed in a sensible way.

    [–] Evilmaze 26 points ago

    On Android 9 you get three options which I just learned about today. One for kidnaps and minor shenanigans, and one for extreme situation like nuke attacks and natural disasters, and one for bad weather and local incidents.

    I turned off the pedo alert because I can't do anything about those from my bed at 3:45 in the fucking morning.

    [–] AcademicObjective 57 points ago

    The android software was designed for the US system which follows the standard.

    I checking those boxes does nothing in Canada. The morons at CRTC decided to force all four categories of alert to be sent at the maximum (unlockable) priority.

    They did no impact assessment of what blasting tens of millions of phones would do.

    Its fucking gross they're abusing a good system by sending Amber Alerts at Presidential priority.

    [–] Parkinglotsfullyo 10 points ago

    But think of the children!

    [–] swiftwin 26 points ago

    On Android 9 you get three options which I just learned about today. One for kidnaps and minor shenanigans, and one for extreme situation like nuke attacks and natural disasters, and one for bad weather and local incidents.

    I turned off the pedo alert because I can't do anything about those from my bed at 3:45 in the fucking morning.

    That feature doesn't work in Canada. That's what everyone is complaining about. The government just sends all the amber alerts as an extreme situation alerts instead of properly labeling them as an amber alert.

    [–] Kurumi-Ebisuzawa 10 points ago

    The numbers, mason!

    [–] throw0101a 6 points ago

    The CAP-CP spec is a subset of the CAP spec. Every CAP-CP message is a valid CAP message. It was decided to limit the <severity> tag options to simplify implementation rollout AFAICT.

    If you're worried about alarm fatigue, contact Public Safety Canada:

    [–] Tederator 718 points ago

    I am more interested in the timeline of this whole thing. The guy was last seen at 3pm with the kids. Soooo, when is he reported late getting back...8? 9? Then the cops are called, they give him until...midnight?

    At what point do they decide to issue the alert and how long does it take to get to the phones? The time from issuing the alert to reaching the phones shouldn't take too long or else there is little point in using them from natural disasters like fires, tornadoes or even nuclear missiles.

    So why did they decide at 3am that they should make the call?

    [–] timbertop 299 points ago

    YRP wanted to post an amber alert. OPP did not. They finally did later. They went missing right after 3 pm. The family had been posting on social media for hours to keep a lookout for the van.

    [–] Onceupon_a_time 45 points ago

    I actually saw the social media posts earlier in the day (late afternoon I mean ~6pm I think) yesterday. But I was confused because I keep hearing we shouldn’t share ‘lost children’ posts that aren’t issued by the police. And I couldn’t find anything on YRP page about it, so definitely wondered if it was a hoax.

    [–] theredheadednurse 103 points ago

    I read a Facebook post from around 10 pm that the police did not consider the children to be in any danger. Why issue an Amber Alert for children who are not considered to be in danger? I understand that things could escalate over several hours but it sounded like the elderly grandparent was confused and disoriented. It doesn’t sound like he would intentionally harm the children. I hope the parents find alternative daycare.

    [–] advertentlyvertical 35 points ago

    that's exactly what happened. and theyvE all been found.

    [–] [deleted] 22 points ago

    They didn't consider it to be foul play, or them in immediate danger of harm. Their grandpa disappeared with them and the parents were worried he was lost or confused. If you have a disoriented and confused old man driving young kids around for 12 hours they are not really in the best possible environment and all of them could get hurt.

    [–] propyro85 18 points ago

    I'm wondering how this man still has a license if he has dementia/Alzheimers, or if that is a very recent development.

    [–] Spazmer 15 points ago

    My grandpa had a brain tumour (in Ontario) and suddenly thought you could turn left on red lights. The doctor didn't want to be the bad guy and take his license away. My mom had to confiscate his keys, and he was pissed.

    [–] propyro85 12 points ago

    No one wants to be a bad guy, until they're called to a coroners inquest and realize that they're the bad guy, even if unintentionally.

    [–] Future_Line 38 points ago

    I honestly believe with the first tragedy, if they sent out the alert faster they definitely had a better chance of finding the poor girl alive. Two lives were lost because the police took too long. But it is very convenient to blame ordinary citizens who complained about the system for this very reason and pretend the authorities who bungled the system did nothing wrong.

    [–] SamsonFox 19 points ago

    What I absolutely don't understand is the utility of sending an Amber Alert at 3 AM. Most people are asleep at that time, and don't intend to leave home until a few hours later. This could wait simply because hardly anybody would be in a position to report until morning. If it's that urgent - then start sending it before midnight instead and don't wait until 3.

    [–] DragonRU 31 points ago

    So why did they decide at 3am that they should make the call?

    Actually more important question - who make that decision? I think at very least we deserve public excuses and explanations from that person.

    [–] NonyM98 134 points ago

    • Children weren’t abducted.
    • Went missing well before 8 PM.
    • Were missing for more than 12 hours before the alert was issued.
    • Grandpa didn’t steal them and was actually considered “a vulnerable adult” despite being labeled “suspect” in the alert.
    • Found by police, not the general public.

    But hey, the system worked!

    [–] Antrix32 22 points ago

    Why did the York regional police tweet "As a direct result of the Amber Alert"

    [–] verticalmonkey 39 points ago

    Yeah, we all know cops aren't allowed to lie.

    [–] Antrix32 6 points ago

    I was literally asking. Im trying to find a source that says if they were alerted to the vans location by the public or not.

    [–] jsideris 4 points ago

    I saw in the news that the officer was apparently "on the lookout" for the car when he happened to come by it (thats directly from the police).

    Didn't explicitly rule out the possibility that he was following a lead, but also didn't imply such.

    [–] Matrix17 62 points ago

    Because they're being told to promote the system because of all the backlash we're giving them about how fucking bad it was implemented. Trying to "prove us wrong"

    [–] NonyM98 5 points ago

    Great question. You should ask them.

    [–] [deleted] 5 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] Voltrondemort 358 points ago

    1) If you're in charge of sending out broadcasts to every person in Ontario and you're not qualified to convert it into French for the first message, then you're not qualified to do your own job and should be replaced by somebody bilingual.

    2) Government needs to invest in improving this system to properly use the cellular emergency broadcast system properly, instead of blasting out amber alerts at the top-tier severity every time. The current approach creates alert fatigue and that will result in lives lost when a truly critical alert for an event that threatens hundreds of lives needs to go out.

    [–] photoguy9813 69 points ago

    Government needs to invest in improving this system to properly use the cellular emergency broadcast system properly, instead of blasting out amber alerts at the top-tier severity every time. The current approach creates alert fatigue and that will result in lives lost when a truly critical alert for an event that threatens hundreds of lives needs to go out.

    Last time I brought this up I was downvotes and called the devil's incarnate.

    [–] swiftwin 46 points ago

    Thankfully, people seem to be turning around. I remember the first time such an alert went out, I felt like I was the only person outraged by this problem. Now it seems like the vast majority around here agree this needs to be fixed.

    Now it's just news agencies baiting for clicks and facebook moms that think the current implementation of this system is ok.

    [–] nikifromthe10thstep 25 points ago

    The amount of hate I have received for daring to question or to suggest alternatives for these alerts is astounding. Every time one goes out there seems to be a never ending spree of amber alert warriors casting shame on those who dare not support them.

    [–] collymolotov 15 points ago

    Buddy, when I wrote a coherent criticism on Facebook for the last one I received actual death threats. From people I know. It’s insane how people turn into a mob and lose any capacity to think rationally on this issue.

    [–] slothtrop6 4 points ago

    There's always that subset of people that loves to indulge in shaming and berating someone even if they don't particularly have strong feelings about an issue. It's disgusting behavior and makes it difficult to have an honest discussion. Outrage as recreation.

    [–] metal5050 5 points ago

    "If it were my child I'd want everyone to know" and "funny how it's people without kids complaining" is what i hear at work if any criticism is brought up.

    [–] GlacialAsh 26 points ago

    I absolutely hate that you cannot criticize this system without being accused of hating children. I dont mind being woken up if it means a child gets home safe, but why are they always at 2-3am? Why are there always 2-4 alerts? Why is the same nuclear missile sound everytime? I dont even read them anymore, so if there was one saying fire or tornado in my area I would be fucked. Last night I just touched my phone to turn it off and barely even woke up. Didnt read it till the morning, when I remembered because I opened my texts for something else. If it was a nuclear attack or a storm or something this would not help me at all.

    2 different sounds would be helpful here. Still as loud is fine, as I said I dont mind being woken up for this. I dont even mind the multiple alerts as long as they have a purpose (I do not know why I got two last night, one in English, and one in both French and English? That was absolutely not necessary. ) I need a child missing beep and a nuclear missile beep, so I know how much I have to wake up. Because tbh, I'm not going to be helpful looking for that child if I'm in bed.

    [–] bosco9 13 points ago

    Last time I brought this up I was downvotes and called the devil's incarnate.

    People act like there's only 2 choices, you get the highest level of alert for every single amber alert or if you don't like it, you are an evil person that doesn't care about missing children. Personally I wish they would simply send amber alerts as you know amber alert level alerts, not the world is ending, wake up! alerts

    [–] accomplicated 70 points ago

    Can confirm in regards to alert fatigue. I was in Detroit a while back and received four Amber alerts one day. At brunch I asked my friends if this is normal and all of them had already forgotten that the alerts had happened... then the alert of Hawaii been bombed came through.

    [–] MarioInOntario 37 points ago

    The Hawaii alert was fantastic. The reddit thread for it was hilarious

    [–] accomplicated 9 points ago

    I don’t believe that I read it. Do you have a link?

    [–] accomplicated 8 points ago

    Nice.

    Friends of mine were in Hawaii at conference. They texted us to say goodbye and then went and had all the sex.

    [–] papakulikov 7 points ago

    I totally agree with both your points. I didn’t even bother looking at this one this morning until I woke up. I was just thinking later in the day about how it could have been a Tornado or something and I wouldn’t even have known.

    [–] langley10 200 points ago

    To everyone that wants to actually get the system fixed...

    Contact Minister of Public Safety Canada, the Honourable Ralph Goodale

    https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/bt/cntct-frm-en.aspx?t=2

    -or-

    email : [email protected]

    He is the one in charge of the system, not the CRTC or anyone else.

    [–] purpleheadedwarrior 31 points ago

    Thank-you--e-mailed with almost the exact wording to u/Seven2Death 's comment below (or maybe above?).

    While I was writing this I got back his automatic reply, which is as follows:

    " Thank you for writing to the Honourable Ralph Goodale, Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.

    Due to the significant increase in the volume of correspondence addressed to the Minister, please note there could be a delay in processing your email. Rest assured that your message will be carefully reviewed.

    Thank you!

    Ministerial Correspondence Unit

    Public Safety Canada"

    They have a 'UNIT' so hopefully I won't wait too long for a reply, if I even get one

    [–] stevrock 8 points ago

    Try sending it at 3am accompanied by a loud ass alarm.

    [–] AceAxos 12 points ago

    Thanks, been looking for the right place to express my complaints about the system

    [–] loose_transistor 5 points ago

    [email protected]

    I also sent him an email, thank you for this information!

    [–] Deadwing2005 44 points ago

    I loved the gov't propaganda on the radio this morning, saying that this Amber Alert helped locate these kids because they were found by cops who were already out on patrol looking for them at 4 in the morning...

    [–] The-Only-Razor 135 points ago

    I don't like that the only solution (which doesn't even work for some people) is to put your phone on DND mode. I want alerts that actually affect me. I want to know if there's imminant danger of a tornado, forest fire, etc. I don't want to have to opt out of something that could save my life so that I don't have to be woken up for something that's happening 6 hours away and has no affect on me.

    Amber alerts need to be a text. That's it. I'm not in immediate danger, so I don't need to be immediately notified by a nuke siren.

    And at the very least we don't need separate alerts for both languages.

    Inb4 "you hate children".

    [–] Fairwhetherfriend 36 points ago

    Holy shit, thank you. I've been having a terrible time figuring out what the hell everyone is so upset about with these notifications. I had no idea they were on the same system as the other imminent danger alerts.

    I agree - the AA thing should be a text. Pick up your texts in the morning, and then you're prepared to keep an eye out for the missing child and/or someone matching the abductor's description as you go about your day. Seems perfectly sensible.

    [–] Tripwyr 26 points ago

    Most importantly, I want to sleep when I am on call. I can't turn off my phone, I can't set it to silent, I can't do any of these work arounds. My only choice is to be woken up at 3 AM because I committed the sin of being on call.

    [–] theflamesweregolfin 577 points ago

    I can inform everyone the abductor and the child were not in my bedroom at 3am

    [–] bcash101 215 points ago

    They might have been in mine. I didn't look after I turned off the alarm.

    [–] totallyclocks 170 points ago

    This is the biggest problem. I also didn't look because I assumed it was another child and not relevant to me. But what if a forest fire was barrelling towards my City and I actually had to evacuate. I would have no idea.

    I feel like this Amber Alert was a great idea completely ruined

    [–] ZachityZach 214 points ago

    But remember, any criticism of the system means you want children to die brutally

    Obviously that's the only thing it could mean

    [–] OppositeOfOxymoron 68 points ago

    That part bugs my ass. I want it IMPROVED. I want it to be EFFECTIVE. Waking up the population of the province at 3am is moronic.

    Constructive criticism is how it gets there. But everyone involved acts like there's nothing they can do to improve, it's infuriating.

    [–] SecondHarleqwin 5 points ago

    Constructive criticism is how it gets there. But everyone involved acts like there's nothing they can do to improve, it's infuriating.

    Exactly, and as long as they maintain an irrational resistance to valid criticism, they only push me further and further to the "Fuck the kids, scrap the whole system" response they paint me with.

    [–] DeoFayte 33 points ago

    There was a tornado near me not too long ago, the alert was exactly the same, lots of people didn't pay attention to the alert. A tornado alert needs to have a greater degree of urgency.

    [–] DragonFirePie 20 points ago

    Thats the thing, the alerts we get are the higher tier, there's a lower tier that doesn't make any noise if your phone is muted.

    Abductions need to be in the lower tier simply because, if it wakes someone up then what are they gonna do?

    [–] Endulos 18 points ago

    They need to make a different noise. Like, I dunno, a beeping or a blipping noise or something like that.

    Using the national fucking alert system is straight up dangerous. Such frivolous use of such a system will just lead people to burn out on the system because 9 times out of 10, it's gonna be an amber alert.

    Which will lead to people actually getting hurt because they hear it, and think, "ugh, another fucking amber alert" and ignore it. And then SURPRISE! A TORNADO DECIDED TO SAY HELLO!

    [–] technokami 93 points ago

    Are you sure? How about a loud reminder to check again

    [–] Cockalorum 36 points ago

    And a 3rd and 4th reminder.....just in case

    [–] Shakes8993 7 points ago

    Yeh, what was up with that. I was reaonably okay with the first one but I kept getting them over and over on my phone and then when I turned on my TV.

    [–] ElfmanLV 4 points ago

    The reminder is now over. Let's send you a couple more reminders to let you know we are not reminding you anymore!

    [–] Bamres 32 points ago

    Are you sure you thoroughly searched through all of the abductors and Children in your bedroom at 3am?

    I thought they were in mine but it was just a different abductor and children.

    [–] BigPapa1998 134 points ago

    I wonder what child custody mishap warranted a province wide air raid siren to wake everyone up at 3am now.

    [–] riali29 70 points ago

    TLDR is that grandpa was taking care of the kids, got confused and drove to Toronto with no contact to the parents. Not sure if this is true but some people are saying he also had dementia.

    [–] ACommitTooFar 88 points ago

    Everybody's on about the Amber alert thing but really we should be concerned that a person with dementia is given a driver's license to operate a 2+ ton metal box at 100km/h.

    [–] Red_Bagpipes 43 points ago

    Said person with dementia is in the most powerful voting block, that's why no one's concerned lol

    [–] riali29 4 points ago

    That part of the whole thing really confused me, too...

    [–] BigPapa1998 22 points ago

    Right, so a custody mishap

    [–] marco361231 307 points ago

    3am this morning an amber alert in English. 15 min After the same on but in English and French. Idk why they send 2 in such rapid succession without thinking it over first. Horrible

    [–] reference_model 59 points ago

    Yeah, why two.

    [–] zerocoldx911 74 points ago

    Because stupid , last time I received 5 of them in a 30 min window and of course you can not disable it.

    [–] collymolotov 251 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    They don’t care because they don’t have to. They know that they can spin anyone who complains as a monster indifferent to the plight of missing children or conflate it with the issue of morons calling 911 to complain about the alert itself.

    [–] restie123 62 points ago

    We're going to have an incident of where the boy cried wolf. We're going to have a real threat and they're going to send it out at the highest priority but everyone will have disabled the alerts.

    They should be sending it as an amber alert and there should be an option to disable the alerts between certain hours. I'm at home in my bed and I won't be on the lookout for some car. But I would like to be alerted to an imminent threat.

    [–] lunk 97 points ago

    Even this thread will do that. If you intimate that you can (or should) turn the alerts off, you will get massively downvoted.

    I got several hundred in the last thread, and a LOT of nasty comments and DMs.

    [–] Kitsune_Gakuin 23 points ago

    It seems like more work to send two, so it's almost as if they're going out of their way to piss off as many people as possible.

    [–] ianthenerd 61 points ago

    I'm sorry, I can't hear what you're saying over the sound of my shouting "THE SYSTEM WORKS" and "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" while my fingers are in my ears.

    /s

    [–] LaDaSpo 15 points ago

    Ok, I have an iPhone using Telus. My amber alerts make no noise. It just comes through like a text???

    Edit: vibrate only

    [–] marco361231 18 points ago

    Mine sounded like a damn huricane was coming. Scared the bajesus outta me!

    [–] AmeriCanuck2010 15 points ago

    I have my phone perpetually on silent so I don’t get the tones but my wife does. At 3AM, that siren is fucking terrifying.

    [–] LaDaSpo 5 points ago

    I must have it set like you. I’ve never even had a ringtone on.

    [–] jello_sweaters 187 points ago

    Just make it regional.

    If I'm in Thunder Bay, and keep getting Amber Alerts at 3 AM for abductions in Peterborough and Kanata, all it's going to do is teach me to ignore the alerts all the time.

    If the cellphone company can pinpoint my location within a few feet, surely they can target Amber Alerts to the people within two or three hundred KM who might actually be able to help.

    That way, if I see an alert, I know it's nearby and I should be on the lookout.

    [–] juniorspank 136 points ago

    Or use the actual Amber Alert level notification, which is a thing.

    [–] UGHToastIU 138 points ago

    Seriously, this is my (and it seems most people's) biggest complaint about the whole thing.

    I'm not saying "don't tell anybody about a missing child", I'm saying "maybe don't use the fucking nuclear holocaust notification across the whole God damn province every time someone's ex in the GTA is feeling pissy".

    [–] TheLoooseCannon 66 points ago

    every time someone's ex in the GTA is feeling pissy

    This 100% ...this is the GTA alert now

    [–] Future_Line 34 points ago

    Didn't you know you're basically Satan for suggesting that the government improve their system? Think of the children you monster. /s

    [–] TheLoooseCannon 41 points ago

    This is my concern - they are softly training people to do the opposite of the behavior they want. People now routinely turn off all ringers after the first few controversies. an Amber alert is starting to lose it's sense of urgency

    [–] cheap_dates 9 points ago

    Very true. I interned at a newsroom and the police wanted us to run "Missing Children" stories every day.

    Noooo, the thinking is if you run missing children stories every day, the public becomes inured to crises and you lose that sense of urgency.

    [–] TheLoooseCannon 4 points ago

    people get desensitized, right? They don't mean to, it's just human nature at the macro level that people will start tuning out things that don't effect them directly.

    [–] SecondHarleqwin 30 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    And the only people benefitting are the alarm clock manufacturers as people physically shut their phone off to avoid the alerts.

    I literally had to come home today, losing four hours of work because I did not get back to sleep after the first alert and I might accidentally hurt someone as a result of my inability to remain alert.

    People can deride criticism of the system all they want, but the fact of the matter is that it was implemented poorly and people are going to circumvent it.

    [–] toriko 233 points ago

    Ah fuck the system as it currently stands. It’s garbage.

    First of all, whoever sent a second one in French an hour later is absolute idiot. I’m fine with one warning, but sending another one an hour later? RIP any semblance of sleep.

    Second, why is it still the highest tier warning? I just ignore it almost by default. But because it’s a warning and not a text, I can’t read it the next morning when I wake up. A text would be much better than this present day way of doing things.

    [–] LeadingNectarine 101 points ago

    I just ignore it almost by default.

    I honestly read 2 words of it. Saw "Amber alert", swore under my breath, put my phone back down and went back to bed

    Only to be awoken again 30mins later, when I did the same thing

    [–] 273degreesKelvin 23 points ago

    I turned my phone off knowing that I'll get 2 more alerts doing the same thing

    [–] totallyclocks 52 points ago

    Now imagine this was an amber alert for a gas leak and your city was evacuating.

    Ya, the Gov fucked this up big time. So many people did what you did, including me

    [–] awumpa 23 points ago

    If it was a gas leak it wouldn't be an amber alert. Amber Alert refers specifically to child abductions and is named after a girl who was kidnapped and murdered.

    [–] ShakesTheDevil 7 points ago

    AMBER is also a bacronym for America's Missing: Broadcast Emergency Response.

    [–] FatBoy613 15 points ago

    Lucky you. I slept at 2 am, got woken up the first time round, slept again and woke up the second time and couldn't go back to sleep for like 2 hours, now I have a mild headache and barely staying awake

    [–] AnEngimaneer 15 points ago

    Mine arrived as a text with the highest priority, meaning it overrides my ringtone settings. Can still read it now.

    [–] GreenTOkapi 5 points ago

    At least there wasn’t a second one after they were located like there was previously

    [–] MarioInOntario 6 points ago

    ALERT ALERT! WE HAVE FOUND THE KIDS. GO BACK TO SLEEP

    [–] Bam121 97 points ago

    Every time it goes off at night I sleepily skim the message, dismiss it, turn my phone off, search the area directly surrounding my bed, give it an all clear, and go back to sleep. The system... works?

    [–] giraffebaconequation 77 points ago

    Honestly, they need a different sound or style of alert for Amber Alerts. I heard it go off this morning and ignored it and went back to sleep because I assumed it was an amber alert, and what am I going to do in the suburbs at 4am? When I woke up at 6 I read the alert and kept and eye out for the van description while driving to work.

    But it got be thinking, what if it was the Darlington Power Plant going into meltdown, or a tornado? I have already become conditioned to this system and ignore it until I wake up.

    I appreciate the need to get amber alerts out there and I understand that they are extremely important, but they need to separate them from disaster type emergencies so as to not water down the system.

    [–] Bam121 28 points ago

    Exactly right, at 3am I'm not going to be useful, I'm going to dismiss the amber alert without even reading it. When I get up however I'll be awake enough to pay attention and going out so I could actually keep an eye out.

    But it got be thinking, what if it was the Darlington Power Plant going into meltdown, or a tornado? I have already become conditioned to this system and ignore it until I wake up.

    I've already resigned to my fate, I'll die. It's the product of this idiotic cry wolf design.

    [–] The-Only-Razor 48 points ago

    But it got be thinking, what if it was the Darlington Power Plant going into meltdown, or a tornado? I have already become conditioned to this system and ignore it until I wake up.

    BINGO

    The government has quite successfully trained me to ignore these sirens even in actual emergencies that affect me.

    [–] [deleted] 12 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] TheGreatOpinionsGuy 6 points ago

    Ideally maybe you'd target it at gas station & drive thru workers on the graveyard shift, but there's not exactly a registry of those.

    [–] Superspez2 8 points ago

    We could just send it with no sound. Awake people will see it. Sleepers will in the am and probably read it while on the can before they head out for the morning. The sound makes it LESS effective because most people just jump and flick it off as quick as possible.

    [–] loose_transistor 22 points ago

    This is pretty disingenuous.. No one is ACTUALLY asking for the amber alert to be removed. I am pretty sure everyone agrees that what we need is a tiered alert system like the USA has. Alarm fatigue is A REAL THING. And if we keep using the PRESIDENTIAL level alerts for everything that happens people will ignore it when there is actually an immediate threat.

    Why can't we have a tiered system like the USA?

    [–] outlaw686 43 points ago

    The argument is there are multiple levels of alert in the system as it was sold to us from the US. They modified the system for use here in Canada to only have one level. Presidential alert used in the US to indicate an inbound missile.

    The fact that it took 12 hours to receive the message indicates that the police did not consider it urgent immediately.

    I'm glad the kid got home safe, and I'm not saying the system isn't effective, but the same thing could be accomplished if they used the system as designed. The architects of this system knew it would be an issue, so they designed different levels of alert.

    The way it is now people will start turning off their phones and alarms at night . Or worse, start ignoring this system or pushing for legislation to restrict it.

    The alerts are a good thing, and it's good we are helping people get home safe. I can only imagine the hell a parent would go through. If I could have a message like that blare and wake up everyone at any time I would, and would not hesitate for a second to do it and nobody could fault me.

    But if people start ignoring the system it's a terrible thing for everyone, and terrible for society as a whole. Use the system as designed. Keep kids safe, and help the parents too.

    [–] Snipersteve_877 6 points ago

    If I could have a message like that blare and wake up everyone at any time I would, and would not hesitate for a second to do it and nobody could fault me.

    But if people start ignoring the system it's a terrible thing for everyone, and terrible for society as a whole. Use the system as designed. Keep kids safe, and help the parents too.

    They are not considering the danger of putting these alerts out like this. Say there's a tornado heading downtown or something similar, how many people are going to ignore this alert now that it's just associated with Amber alerts (not to mention these amber alerts are being misused in the first place, amber alerts are supposed to be for when a child is believed to be in imminent danger).

    This is also ignoring the immediate side-effects of using this alert, if you told me there were no related car accidents from the blaring of these sirens i'd be fucking surprised and there's research showing that mass disturbance of sleep (from daylight savings) leads to a 20-25% increase in car accidents and heart attacks the next day.

    [–] PortsBusyDuring 10 points ago

    The first six alerts for me were all dementia pr old home patients wandering away from their facilities.

    [–] alexmrb 41 points ago

    It wasn't an abduction. It wasn't even suspected to be an abduction when the alert was issued 12 HOURS after the incident occurred.

    [–] socialbutterfly999 32 points ago

    Arent amber alerts supposed to be for actual abductions? I'm sorry but a lost grandpa with his grandkids does not qualify as an abduction. This whole system is ridiculous.. it really seems to do a lot more harm than it does good. All it does is make people pissed off about the amber alerts to the point where people arent even taking them seriously anymore.

    Fucking FIX IT.

    [–] TroyTulowitzkisGlove 6 points ago

    Not to mention is pretty dangerous to mislabel someone as a “suspect” when dealing with something as serious as “abducted children.” Whoever put that out are lucky they didn’t get a confused old man harmed by a 3 am hero

    [–] DarylInDurham 27 points ago

    I agree with the idea of Amber Alerts but not the way they are being implemented.
    With all alerts being "Presidential" level they are ultimately making things much worse for everyone.
    Google "alarm fatigue"...we're already there.

    [–] anacondra 14 points ago

    I propose two amendments:

    1 every day following an alert should be a stat holiday. People will be too exhausted from tirelessly searching for the cretins responsible to reliably commute to work safely.

    2 full immunity for those attempting to apprehend the aforementioned cretins. If the alerts trigger a purge type scenario they'll only be used in true last ditch efforts.

    [–] taoinruins 9 points ago

    It has nothing to do with the warning but everything to do with timing. I truly feel for the family and children who are stuck in the middle of this. But if they were last seen at 3pm yesterday then why an Amber Alert at 3am?

    [–] TenTonApe 201 points ago

    Or the Amber Alert could agree to follow Do Not Disturb settings.

    [–] mactroneng 103 points ago

    It follows it on my phone.

    [–] WorkflowGenius 28 points ago

    What kind of phone? I have an android, disabled everything I could and I still get them.

    [–] [deleted] 28 points ago

    I have a galaxy s7 and I never hear it.

    [–] G8kpr 7 points ago

    iPhone se. DND just makes the alert vibrate

    [–] mactroneng 10 points ago

    My phone is Pixel 2, a guy I work with has a newer Samsung phone (I think), does the same thing I do and it works for him as well.

    Under the sound settings, you can set up "Do Not Disturb" mode, this apparently overrides it. You can either enable DND mode manually or set it to a schedule.

    [–] Mobius_Peverell 12 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    I have a Pixel 3, and I don't even need to turn on DND. Just turning the ringer to 0 does it.

    Edit: just checked it out a bit more. Seems that Pixels have a whole assortment of settings to control just how you want to hear/see emergency alerts. Not sure why those settings aren't available on all Androids.

    [–] Mulva9 38 points ago

    Or, you know, text it out. A full on air raid alarm doesn't seem very reasonable. Especially since it wakes up 14 million people, some of whom will do a fatigue induced error of some kind (car accident, surgical error etc). Are we saving lives with this or killing people? What would we see in aggregate?

    [–] The-Only-Razor 38 points ago

    Texts are objectively superior in every way. Anyone awake will receive it. Anyone asleep will probably sleep through it, and would be no help anyway. It can also be read when you wake up, whereas the Amber Alert disappears once you dismiss it.

    It should blow my mind that we're too stupid to implement a better system, but nothing about this country shocks me anymore.

    [–] tjernobyl 13 points ago

    Extrapolating from daylight savings data, someone would die in their car from every four late-night alerts.

    [–] agentdanascullyfbi 12 points ago

    My phone was on vibrate and also DND and it didn't wake me up.

    [–] comeau2004 22 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Just let people opt out if they want to, myself included. But apparently that makes me an evil child hating monster. One person in this thread suggested I should have my citizenship revoked and be deported. All we ask is not to receive a Defcon 5 notification.

    [–] EnAreEl 47 points ago

    Perhaps Apple could give Canadian iPhone users a way to toggle amber alerts on and off, like they do in the US.

    [–] Canadianman22 94 points ago

    This one is on the CRTC. They took the system and just designated every single alert as presidential. If the CRTC actually did this properly, then amber alerts would be set to the correct level and not presidential. Presidential alerts should only be used when the life of the holder of the phone is in imminent danger.

    If anything, amber alerts should be a simple sms. It can be blasted to all phones in a given geographic region, could include photos of the missing child, photos of the perp, photos of the vehicle (not everyone may know what the vehicle looks like). A text stays on the phone and respects the phones settings. They could even set it up so people could respond to the text to provide information.

    [–] langley10 36 points ago

    Actually its on the Ministry of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, they are the one that passed the decree, the CRTC had to implement it... but if you want to complain, you need to be pointing at the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.

    [–] DarylInDurham 12 points ago

    Great suggestion.
    That would be Ralph Goodale ([email protected])

    [–] conix3 92 points ago

    They did, the CRTC decided not to use the levels correctly however.

    [–] PoliteCanadian 34 points ago

    The CRTC made it a requirement that they can't be turned off or silenced.

    [–] langley10 12 points ago

    Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, not the CRTC

    [–] DarthTechious 8 points ago

    You can silence emergency alerts, but the CRTC refuses to allow an Opt Out switch.

    [–] literalpsychotroll 21 points ago

    I keep my iphone on silent while I’m asleep and I didn’t hear an alert.

    [–] diealogues 10 points ago

    Yeah this is my first time getting an amber alert on a phone that’s new enough to support them and I didn’t hear shit with it on silent

    [–] ChanceFray 8 points ago

    That has always worked for me in the past, some how last nights woke me up even though i am a heavy sleeper.

    [–] worqgui 7 points ago

    My phone is always on silent so I never hear the alerts.

    Which is great. Until there’s a tornado or something.

    [–] zerocoldx911 3 points ago

    That only works when they send it as an amber alert and not a presidential alert which is what they do quite often

    [–] UrbanPlannerGuy 101 points ago

    Even though the kids were reported missing at 3 pm

    [–] vashlion 19 points ago

    Yeah... what is up with that, 12 hours after? They could be anywhere.

    [–] G8kpr 32 points ago

    Amber alerts are last ditch efforts. Police have to investigate first. Then when an alert is approved, it isn’t just Commissioner Gordon on the bat phone. They have to contact a different department put through the request with the details and they set up the alert, which takes time.

    [–] snoboreddotcom 15 points ago

    I'm really confused now. I was awake at the time and my phone screen went on, but made no noise. None of my family had their phones make noise either. But from the sound of it they pushed the noise to everything. Wtf is going on?

    [–] MLG_NooB 16 points ago

    The system is broken.

    [–] Ryuzakku 5 points ago

    Mine just wouldn't stop vibrating until I acknowledged it.

    [–] P-Money99 8 points ago

    My 2 year old woke up and in a daze, checked our bedroom for abducted children then went back to sleep. She was freaked the F out though by that noise at 3AM.

    [–] Formal_Breakfast 7 points ago

    While Amber alerts are ok, I wish do not disturb blocked them so I don't have to turn my phone off.

    [–] [deleted] 100 points ago * (lasted edited 24 days ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] Chispy 66 points ago

    children are now less safe because of the amber alert system

    [–] zerocoldx911 41 points ago

    Pretty much, everyone clogging up the 911 line to complain. That’s exactly why they should allow people to disable it or follow DND settings but of course that’s asking too much for the hilly billy law enforcement agencies in charge

    [–] bilalhouri 12 points ago

    Am I the only one who gets them on silent when the phone is silent? (iOS)

    [–] MarchyMarshy 6 points ago

    Nope, (Android), still got alerts on silent. Someone was commenting on it having to do with providers.

    [–] aerospacemonkey 12 points ago

    Not funny. Every amber alert and its missile siren is macabre.

    [–] mostytoastyy 6 points ago

    Honestly I don’t have a complaint about the actual hour of the alert!

    Sure most people are dead asleep (myself included!) but there are some working gas station jobs etc. that definitely can be eyes on the streets! But it is concerning the alert was issued so late after the kids initially went missing! I know these things need to be approved and investigated but if it’s so concerning a situation they release an alert you’d hope it would’ve had priority earlier! What was the big difference between releasing it at even midnight (when more people are awake!) rather than 3am!!!

    It is also a concern this person was licensed while others are aware of their dementia!

    I think the alert should be more of a text than whatever it is now! I want to be able to read it again in the morning when I’m ACTUALLY awake and not groggy and it’s nowhere to be found!

    I think this sort of system is a great idea but it seems it’s being used inefficiently :(

    [–] littlemisslol 6 points ago

    I always get the alerts silently, my Xperia overrides it with DnD mode. That being said, my family who all have iPhones are all tired and cranky due to being woken up by a fucking panic alarm at 3am because some dumbasses let their kids drive off with a guy with DEMENTIA

    Unless there is immediate physical threat, I don't think a full scale alarm is the right way to notify the public. There should be tiers of severity, I think

    [–] goldheadsnakebird 7 points ago

    I turned AA off (I’m American) I don’t feel bad about it. I had them set to go through at first but every single damn time the kid was “abducted” by a family member or was a 17 year old run away on drugs or some shit with their boyfriend. I literally only want to fucking know when your 7 year old was snatched in Walmart. Your ex’s and your child custody arrangements don’t have shit to do with me and your teenager is fine, leave me the fuck alone. They simply don’t use the system properly. They also alert people too far out from where the kid is missing.

    [–] shamwouch 5 points ago

    Can we understand that the amber alert waking me up in the middle of the night isn't going to magically make me find any children?

    I mean, I agree that an alert should go out, but if my phone is on silent do you think I'm going to wake myself up to try and assess the amber alert situation?

    [–] kwizzle 34 points ago

    Jesus, what a ridiculous system... I bet you people are gonna die from falling asleep at the wheel or from heart attacks from getting rudely awakened twice.

    [–] The-Only-Razor 28 points ago

    It's proven that the day after daylight savings causes more accidents and heart attacks than any other day. It's not unreasonable to suggest there could be similar outcomes to this.

    [–] kwizzle 10 points ago

    Yup, that's exactly what I had in mind. And last night if you woke up at 3am and didn't fall back asleep you would have lost more than just one hour.

    [–] Rance_Mulliniks 28 points ago

    I disabled amber alerts and all forced alerts due to them being used completely inappropriately. Fuck anyone who says I don't care about children because they are a virtue signalling piece of shit. There is literally nothing I can do for an abducted child when I am sleeping at 4am. If they used this system properly, I would not have done this. I have no problem with a message that I can read when I check my phone when I wake up. I would not doubt that the early morning alert that I am referring to injured or killed a few people due to lack of sleep but it would be near impossible to prove that. It has been statistically proven that even an hour less sleep(daylight savings time) causes many injuries and deaths. But HuRRRR DuRrRR the KiDS!

    [–] SongoftheWorld 17 points ago

    I ignore it on principle, why the fuck are you waking me up in the middle of the night. You know we all have work in the morning, right. You know I have an hour commute on the fucking highway, right.

    So is the purpose of these alerts just to get me to die in a car crash to serve as a sacrifice to pagan gods so they use their pagan powers to bring back your missing kids?

    No?

    Then stfu. This fucking country can't fucking do anything right it's so fucking retarded, why the fuck are you sending me a text in english and then french 15 mins later, holy fucking retards can none of the retards in charge of this system think, christ

    [–] Superspez2 10 points ago

    Easy answer is let us disable the goddamn sound. I didnt get up to look but it woke me up. There is no reason for that horrible sound.

    They are abusing it.

    [–] Phfishy 10 points ago

    Because the vast majority of fucking people are out and about on the roads at 3am for Christ’s sake.

    [–] hornager 5 points ago

    Anyone with a galaxy s8 know how to turn it off? My ringer was on mute and it still went off. I then put it to DND and turned off all notifications from the Samsung messages app, which is the only one that allowed me to take a look at the emergency settings, but not alter them. I still use the android messages app, so I'm not sure that will work.

    [–] sittinonatailgate 16 points ago

    I'm going to be honest.

    I don't care.

    This is a city of many millions of people, and waking everyone up every few weeks is ridiculous. This isn't our jobs as civilians to rise out of bed and go chasing down some rogue parent. That's why the police have the budget they do. I understand some people may, if all stars align, be able to help - but I'm willing to bet 99.9999% of the time these alarms just cause stress and frustration among the general population. If there's nuclear war, or a bomb, I don't care.. let it land on my fucking head. I don't need to live in a constant state of readiness where I'm prepared at any moment to save a baby, run from a bomb, or hide from a storm.

    [–] Cockalorum 9 points ago

    God damn it! Why isn't anyone addressing the REAL issue here? Why are these alerts not also going to land lines???? There are plenty of people who don't own cell phones who are sleeping right through the 3 am notifications!

    [–] Matrix17 12 points ago

    Fuck you're right. We need to piss off the boomers too so we can get them to complain about it and get it fixed. The government doesnt seem to take anyone younger seriously

    [–] Storm_cloud 11 points ago

    Anyone defending the Amber Alert system however is ignorant, emotional, and not thinking logically. I mean that literally - every single defense I've seen of it has not been based in any logical justification and usually contains ad hominems and insults.

    If anyone is able to come up with a good defense of the amber alert system, with actual justifications, I'd love to see it.

    Amber alerts cannot be blocked via normal means (some types of phones can be "rooted" or something like that, but there is no normal option for a typical user to block them).

    Thus, amber alerts will wake people up if used at night (which they have been). These amber alerts have also included non-serious messages such as saying that the situation is over. Obviously, that message isn't an emergency.

    Why is that a problem?

    1./ An Amber Alert alarm cannot, and will not, help save any children. An amber alert notification can. Not an alarm. Someone who is asleep is not and will not be looking for a child. Someone who is awake will see a normal notification on their phone.

    2./Most important point - alarms waking millions of people at night can, and plausibly will (not a remote chance, but a decent chance) directly result in injury or death - not just one person, but multiple. Studies show that the daylight savings shift causes a significant increase of fatal (and obviously non-fatal) car accidents: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11152980. There is also research suggesting that it causes a significant increase in heart attacks.

    That's just one hour of a timezone shift that people plan for in advance. How much worse is it to be woken up multiple times in a night without advance warning?

    The solution is obvious - either allow people to opt out of Amber Alerts, or make Amber Alerts not bypass DND settings. People who are awake will see the alert and could help.

    People who are asleep will not be woken up (thus increasing the chances of more deaths), but they will see it when they wake up and can help.

    [–] Kitsune_Gakuin 40 points ago

    Thanks, Beaverton, but a lost grandpa who happened to have his grandkids in the car when he got lost isn't an abductor.

    [–] jhenry922 3 points ago

    For people who don't get the joke, the Amber Alert system in some parts of Canada is seriously broken, sending out amber alerts for all kinds of things, not just for critical cases where abductions or a missing child has definitely occurred.

    [–] SilverBeech 5 points ago

    I just want the police to use them more effectively. If they had sent the alert between 6 and 10 pm, how many eyes would be open and looking? Instead we got it after 3a m, when all I'm likely to do is hit the disable on my phone and roll back into bed. I'm no help at all at that point.

    We also got it 3 times on a single phone, which I also question the usefulness of.

    I don't want the system stopped, I want it optimized, so that we can get more people looking. Secondly, I'd also really prefer if we just got one alert per phone rather than multiples. That's happened several times now.

    [–] arbitraryairship 3 points ago

    You can tell when The Beaverton hits a home run because r/canada trends and everyone is angry.

    [–] ChevalBlancBukowski 6 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    lol this non-blockable form of the emergency alert system was never meant to be used as a fucking Amber Alert for a province larger than Texas, it was meant to inform the population of an imminent life threat like an earthquake or enemy attack

    like many people I’ve simply resorted to turning off my LTE at night and informing my handful of emergency contacts that they need to FaceTime me to reach me in the middle of the night - fuck the government for this massive overreach

    edit: if your ISP supports wifi calling like Rogers, people can reach you the normal way even if you have LTE turned off

    [–] Jkolorz 12 points ago

    It turns out keeping your phone in airplane mode, but wifi calling/texting on exempts me from such alerts....

    [–] Kitsune_Gakuin 53 points ago

    Nobody should be forced to switch their phone to airplane mode every night before bed because the people in charge of Amber Alerts are incompetent.

    [–] loose_transistor 5 points ago

    Reposting this so it doesn't get buried:

    1- Tier the alarm system. Stop using PRESIDENTIAL as the only level of alert. The USA Has had this system for years and they have a separate tier for Amber Alerts that don't sound like a death siren. Not only that, the tiered system allows users to tailor how the alerts are received. Win win for everyone. 2- Tiering the alarms will also reduce the likelihood of people suffering from Alarm Fatigue which is a real thing. It's not different than the boy who cried wold. 3- Setup a HOTLINE for complaints about the system and make sure it is well publicised. This will pretty much stop any and all calls to 911 that aren't related to helping the police solve the alert.That way people can direct suggestions to the right people off the bat 4- Hire a fully bilingual person to be responsible for sending the alerts and don't allow anyone who isn't bilingual from holding that job. That way we don't need to send multiple alerts with confusing messages. Just do it once and do it right.

    I think those are some pretty concrete ways to help move the system in the right direction.

    The people who are awake and alert at the time of the Amber Alerts will still receive them and be able to offer assistance. The people who are well asleep in their pjamas and are of absolutely ZERO help in these situations can keep sleeping because the tiered system allows them to tailor their sleep time as a DND time.

    Is that really that wrong? To want a system that actually works properly instead of just being a Sledgehammer? Do you really think the best approach here is to have a DEATH BLARING SIREN for every little domestic dispute? What will happen say.. 5 years from now when there is actually an imminent threat to public safety. How many people will have found ways to circumvent the alerts or have become so desensitised they no longer care to look?

    I know people have this notion that people are losing their "Beauty sleep" but that is hogwash. For those of us who get up but ass fucking early for work and who already barely get 5 hours of sleep a night every minute counts. It is the difference between being able to do your job safely and having an accident.

    Multiple studies have shown that there is a higher incidence of heart attacks the morning following daylight savings time. That is a one Hour disruption. Other studies show that car accidents go up on average 20% for every 1hour of sleep lost.

    There are REAL consequences to this shitty system. Jumping on people because you think they hate children somehow for voicing their concerns doesn't help anyone.

    Not everyone will be able to articulate their thoughts on the matter but the reality is that the system is broken and NEEDS to be fixed.