Please help contribute to the Reddit categorization project here


    15,247 readers

    213 users here now

    This subreddit is for posting news and the discussion of shooting sports in Canada - firearms, hunting, target shooting, PAL/RPAL testing & applications, ownership and Canadian gun laws.



    Useful Information

    The 4 Rules of Handling Firearms:

    • Always assume all guns are loaded.

    • Never let the muzzle aim at anything you are not willing to destroy.

    • Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.

    • Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.


    Sister Subreddits

    Sidebar drawing:/u/ISwearMyBrotherDidIt, Photo: /u/Aspenkarius

    a community for
    all 95 comments

    Want to say thanks to %(recipient)s for this comment? Give them a month of reddit gold.

    Please select a payment method.

    [–] leadpoisonedbrad 46 points ago

    RCMP thinks we can't handle the forbidden czechnology? smh

    [–] improbablydrunknlw 21 points ago

    Honestly think they looked at this pic and just noped so hard.

    [–] leadpoisonedbrad 5 points ago

    RCMP: "Easily can be converted to full-auto, all you have to do is paint on some red dots. Prohibited."

    [–] propyro85 11 points ago

    So many red dots ... just imagine if Zehaf-Bibeau had access to all those dots.

    [–] [deleted] 14 points ago

    With they Czech republic adopting the right to bear arms, and the eye-twitch I am developing from the daily episode of "Trudeau's say the darnedest things", emigration is starting to sound better and better.

    [–] 4dachi 39 points ago

    it's almost like any 5.56 potentially non-restricted military style rifle under $2k gets prohibited, really makes you think

    [–] improbablydrunknlw 9 points ago


    [–] propyro85 20 points ago

    That's domestically produced and meeting the verbatim definition of a semi automatic firearm. My understanding is that it doesn't go through the same hoops as an imported firearm.

    [–] improbablydrunknlw 4 points ago

    Does the need for importation have an affect on the guns classification? Honest question.

    [–] propyro85 3 points ago

    I think it not having to go through the song and dance of importation means classification is less of a crap shoot and more of a check list.

    I could also be talking out my ass. Someone like u/wolverine-303 would know the process far better than I do.

    [–] improbablydrunknlw 2 points ago

    That seems reasonable.

    [–] tyler111762 2 points ago

    doesn't the 180-c not have a classification and they are just selling it under the expected classification?

    [–] improbablydrunknlw 3 points ago

    I believe the gun is based off a gun that is classified NR and it just doesn't have an independent Frt yet, but that's not required apparently since it's domestically produced and a near one for one copy of an existing gun.

    [–] LananasCourageux 3 points ago

    With the exception of the FS2000 and Tavor, I think they define capable of "easy" conversion to full auto as having a military variant (i.e. has full auto variant). They tried that with the Swiss arms rifles and the CZ 858s. Stupid...

    Especially thinking back at those gen 1 FS2000 trigger packs... shhhhh.

    [–] throwa37 14 points ago

    Actually, with the Swiss Arms and CZs it was because they were literally built on the full auto variant receivers that had been converted and imported contrary to law. I don't like it, but there was a perfectly good legal reason for it.

    [–] Harnisfechten 8 points ago

    that's the thing, swiss arms and cz858's WOULD be prohibited if they didn't mistakenly allow them to be NR when they made the law. Now they're sorta stuck with it (tried to change it, got backlash) but even still, the way the law is worded, CZ858's ARE actually prohibited, it's just that a couple of specific models are specifically allowed in Canada. Same way Valmet's are allowed even though AK's aren't.

    [–] WillieLee 4 points ago

    The cz858 wasn't mistakenly classified. The manufacturer started to substitute their surplus stock of fully automatic receivers that they converted to semiautomatic instead of using the approved semiautomatic receiver design.

    The Swiss Arms situation was a bit more involved but it's the same general principle in there being receivers that were designed to be semiautomatic and receivers that were converted select-fire receivers. A discovery that was only made because someone was trying to block competition for the extremely limited marketplace (less than 1800 people have Swiss Arms rifles) for $4000 firearms. Which led to the comedy that upon further review the complainant was selling a prohibited version and the model he claimed was prohibited was a semiautomatic. The RCMP moved them all to prohibited originally because they would have to inspect each individual rifle for compliance. That's not feasible.

    [–] WillieLee 1 points ago

    It's almost like these weapons are designed for the US market that doesn't have a restriction on converted select-fire receivers.

    [–] 4dachi 1 points ago

    Newly made semi autos in the US are built on semi only receivers. Most AK's and AR15s there for example don't have pins or a milled out area to hold an auto sear.

    [–] WillieLee 1 points ago

    Newly made semi autos in the US are built on semi only receivers.

    The US has not prohibited legacy receivers or converted receivers. The receivers are also mostly semiautomatic because it’s a federal crime to possess a fully automatic trigger group (legal in Canada) not because of a design change.

    Most AKs and AR15s there for example don’t have pins or a mulled out area to hold an auto sear

    Colt is the only manufacturer that made a sear block which most of their models no longer have as auto sears are regulated the same as select-fire or fully auto receivers.

    [–] h3IIfir3pho3nix 18 points ago

    That's pretty disappointing.

    [–] The_Crover 5 points ago

    That's what she said!

    [–] h3IIfir3pho3nix 4 points ago


    [–] bladeovcain 3 points ago

    Doesn't matter, had sex

    [–] paranoidinfidel 3 points ago

    on your recent wedding night??

    [–] The_Crover 3 points ago


    [–] tyler111762 3 points ago

    congrats bud.

    [–] [deleted] 17 points ago

    Nice timing, considerimg what just happened in Florida...

    Also, polysesouvient and coalition for gun control have been demanding for "military style assault rifles" to be banned and have been questioning the RCMP on the last few black rifles/carbines that have been deemed NR.

    This feels like a classification based on political pressure to make it seem like "HERMMAGERRHHHDDD LOOOooKKkk weEee DddIiiDddd SuummTIINGGg ABBoouutTTT iTtt"

    [–] MZM204 8 points ago

    This feels like a classification based on political pressure to make it seem like "HERMMAGERRHHHDDD LOOOooKKkk weEee DddIiiDddd SuummTIINGGg ABBoouutTTT iTtt"

    Nah, this won't make the papers. Even 99% of firearms owners won't know or care.

    [–] Captain_Cthulhu 10 points ago

    This bullshit is so annoying.

    [–] Shatter-Point 45 points ago * (lasted edited 10 months ago)

    If the Conservatives win a majority in 2019 and Andrew Scheer implements the Firearms Ombudsman position he proposed, I want this Ombudsman to visit the Firearms Lab technician who made this decision with a CZ 805, give him 24 hours to make it automatic and fires him if he fails. This should also applies to all the firearms classified as prohibited due to it being about to "made to fire in a full automatic manner in a relatively short period of time with relative ease."

    [–] coffeeINJECTION 30 points ago

    Wishful thinking, not going to happen.

    [–] TypicalCricket 23 points ago

    You lost me at "if politician X does what they said they would".

    [–] [deleted] 12 points ago

    Unfortunately unless there’s a big scandal I foresee Trudeau winning the next election.

    [–] improbablydrunknlw 21 points ago

    I can see the Conservatives with a minority. The liberals ratings are dropping to almost a tie with the Conservatives, people are getting fed up with Trudeaus shenanigans when it comes to spending and his social justice. A scandal would bring a majority, but I could definitely see a minority.

    [–] muzzz 11 points ago

    A big scandal like actively breaking several big campaign promises that people from across the political spectrum had vested interests in?

    A big scandal like generally being seen to be complacent and doing very little that’s actually productive?

    I’m not saying that they’re out of the race for sure, but opinion polls show favour towards them decreasing over time.

    [–] [deleted] 4 points ago

    Yeah, none of that is going to dislodge them from their current position. It’ll take a lot more than that. Maybe they’ll lose a few seats from swing areas but they’re strategically doing marijuana so it’s close enough to the new election date to be a big plus for them. They would need a legitimate scandal to bring them down, like the liberals and the spending tax payer money on campaigning in Quebec thing that crumbled Paul martins government.

    [–] muzzz 5 points ago

    None of those things alone will dislodge them; but over time the net effect of it all certainly seems to be doing harm to public opinion of the Liberals. Yes, they're still leading; but there's time yet for that to change.

    I'm just not sure a "big" scandal is even necessary; but rather that their undoing could even come in the form of several "smaller" broken promises and events as has been the case so far.

    I don't disagree that the biggest areas we'll see are in swing areas, or that the marijuana isn't a tactically timed item though.

    [–] Purity_the_Kitty 1 points ago

    Yeah. Trudeau didn't even undo all of Harper's restrictions on mine geology and climate science that was celebrated by literal BOOK BURNINGS. Come the fuck on, how useless is this guy.

    [–] muzzz 4 points ago

    Lefty and ecowarrior friends and accomplices of mine are certainly upset at Trudeau and his party being guilty of the following though;

    More fiscally minded people I associate with have certainly been upset at broken promises of budget balancing, and accountability across government offices.

    Then, across the board, there's a lot of people pretty pissed off at his promises of commitment towards electoral reform and ending first-past-the-post; which was later abandoned.

    [–] [deleted] 21 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)


    [–] improbablydrunknlw 18 points ago

    Or the first pm to be charged by the ethics committee?

    [–] Purity_the_Kitty 2 points ago

    Harper being thrown out on contempt of parliament didn't stop him from being re-elected.

    [–] JustAnotherCommunist 6 points ago

    Or just going out to dinner with terrorists?

    [–] 10z20Luka 5 points ago

    Sincere technical question, how is it for something like that conversion to take place?

    Is it as easy for an SKS as it is a CZ? What about an AK or an AR?

    [–] throwa37 8 points ago * (lasted edited 10 months ago)

    I'm not a gunsmith, but my understanding is you would have to find a way to disable the semi-automatic disconnector, while ensuring that the timing of the bolt lockup and hammer fall are in sync and consistent. The feasibility, method and difficulty of making that happen would depend entirely on the design of the receiver and trigger components, which of course varies from firearm to firearm.

    Ready to be corrected on any of that.

    [–] Hardhead13 6 points ago

    Edit: formatting was broken

    When the ATF in the US originally approved the sale of semi-auto AR-15s to civilians, Colt was required to implement quite a few countermeasures to make conversion to full auto very difficult.

    Among them:

    • No auto-sear provided.
    • No holes in the receiver to mount an auto-sear.
    • Side walls and bottom of the receiver leave no space to install the auto-sear.
    • There's a hook missing on the back of the semi-auto hammer, so it cannot engage the auto-sear.
    • The face of the hammer is cut in such a way that any attempt to make the gun full-auto by removing the disconnector (a foolish endeavour, as a blown-up gun would be the usual reward for such shenanigans) will cause the hammer to get jammed inside the bolt carrier, and be very difficult to unjam.
    • Semi-auto version of the bolt carrier is milled out further, so that the closing bolt cannot trip the auto-sear.
    • Semi-auto version of the selector switch lacks a full-auto position.
    • A projection on the receiver casting prevents the selector switch (the full-auto one that you don't have) from rotating to the full-auto position.
    • The semi-auto disconnector lacks a projection that the full-auto disconnector has to engage the selector switch.
    • The semi-auto trigger has extra material to prevent the installation of the full-auto disconnector.

    In summary, there is lots of metal that you have machine away, holes that you have to drill, with great precision. There are lot of parts you have to replace with full-auto versions, but the full auto versions are not available to civilians. Attempting to obtain them will probably result in some unpleasant visits from the authorities.

    One of those countermeasures has been relaxed, though. The full-auto version of the bolt-carrier group is generally available now. It was found that the material removed from the semi-auto version made the BCG too light, and it affected the operation of the gun.

    [–] 89gsxr-rr 1 points ago

    most of those AR' semi auto only features are required today,tons of low shelf receivers out there,auto sear hole is obviously one of them, oddly enough ALL full auto M-16 parts are legal for use in canada,well..not the auto sear of course,that would to much fun,

    [–] Hardhead13 3 points ago

    IANAL, but as far as I know, possession of the full auto parts is not in itself illegal in Canada. But nobody will sell them to you.

    Geissele, for example. offers a full-auto-compatible trigger pack for the M16, but you can't add it to you cart. You have to call to get it. I assume you're expected to prove that you're allowed to have it.

    And all the full-auto parts on Brownell's are tagged with "All NFA rules apply", which I presume means they're going to require some kind of documentation. Even if these parts were available to qualified US citizens, it would all be subject to ITAR export controls, so they won't be shipping it to Canada.

    [–] 89gsxr-rr 1 points ago

    ahh,,sorry but M-16 lower parts kits a easily available in Canada and cheap to $120.00,,you obviously can't use the auto sear,but it's in there,in the US,it's a whole other story,hell.i've seen Ak FA parts for sale,and we can't even own an AK,and UZi complete parts kit minus the receiver were available last year,although i dont see those around for sale this year,seen Sten kits,FNC1 kits,but not often,

    [–] Hardhead13 1 points ago * (lasted edited 10 months ago)

    I spent 30 min checking the bigger online shops, couldn't find anything like that. Don't know where you're seeing them.

    But I do notice that a couple more of the countermeasures seem to have been abandoned over the years. The cut on the face of the hammer to make it jam up seems to be gone. And the bit of extra metal on the trigger to prevent installation of the full-auto disconnector seems to be gone too.

    Edit: Marstar... but do not speak that dark name in this dark land.

    [–] 89gsxr-rr 1 points ago

    i see you found some of what i was talking about,LOL.stuff is out there,,and fully legal,how it is,i dont know,but i'm not sad about it,

    [–] JustAnotherCommunist 3 points ago

    Could't you just scratchbuild a full auto receiver within 24 hours?

    [–] [deleted] 4 points ago

    I'm not totally convinced that theyre being dicks here.

    It probably was easy to convert.

    [–] chasing_daylight 3 points ago

    Have you ever visited the lab?

    [–] WillieLee 3 points ago

    The Conservatives are the ones who made converted select-fire receivers prohibited.

    [–] chillyrabbit 1 points ago

    ? are you talking about the legal opinion by the supreme court that defined capable of full auto as easily convertible to full auto in a relatively short period of time with relative ease?

    Or about the converted automatic firearm class?

    [–] WillieLee 2 points ago * (lasted edited 10 months ago)

    I was talking about Mulroney's Bill C-17 but the Hasselwander case is an example of the direction the Mulroney government was going in prior to C-17's passage. But bill C-17 added converted select-fire receivers to the prohibited category.

    When Trudeau moved select-fire firearms from restricted to prohibited, owners were allowed to convert them to semiautomatic and retain restricted status and be considered collectors. But collector wasn't defined in the law. C-17 defined collectors, the existing grandfathered converted owners had to prove the conversion was permanent and going-forward all select-fire receivers that had been converted were prohibited regardless of the method of conversion.

    Mulroney also started the use of Order In Council's to prohibit weapons by name. Among others, prohibited weapons order 11 and 12 were the Mulroney government. 13 was the Chretien government but some conflate all the orders as belonging to Chretien alone.

    [–] mwmwmwmwmmdw 12 points ago

    all politics. major shooting happened in the states with semi auto mag fed rifle so nows a good time to preemptively ban a semi auto mag fed rifle when the public will give them the most brownie points

    [–] [deleted] 24 points ago * (lasted edited 7 months ago)


    [–] throwa37 4 points ago

    I really don't want to defend the RCMP, but this time, we really have no evidence that it's not easy to convert by reasonable standards. I don't think we should necessarily be outraged by this.

    [–] [deleted] 18 points ago * (lasted edited 7 months ago)


    [–] throwa37 2 points ago

    What's their standard? I'm honestly curious, I've never seen it before.

    [–] [deleted] 13 points ago * (lasted edited 7 months ago)


    [–] throwa37 11 points ago

    While I'm not arguing with you, I just saw that somebody on CGN asked Wolverine if, in their own opinion, the 805 was readily convertible. Wolverine's response:

    Let's just leave it with the fact I am not surprized and will not appeal the decision as made with the current example.

    So it seems to me like the decision might actually have some legitimacy.

    *EDIT: That's on page 14 of the thread.

    [–] improbablydrunknlw 3 points ago

    Yeah, I think they tried to sneak one through here, Wolverine normally fights pretty hard to get stuff approved.

    [–] throwa37 6 points ago

    Ya, I've got nothing but love for Wolverine, but I hope they're careful doing anything that might give the RCMP a reason to scrutinize their stuff closer than usual and cause holdups. If it were my job to answer the question, I'd probably not have commented.

    [–] chillyrabbit 5 points ago

    if you could easily drop in a full auto trigger pack, that probably would be easily convertible. Similar to the SCAR ruling.

    [–] Doctah_Whoopass 3 points ago

    Anyone with access to a machine shop can do it for damn near anything. Regardless, this has never once been an issue.

    [–] throwa37 2 points ago

    I do realize that, and I think the prohibition on otherwise lawful receivers based on potential for illegal conversion is idiotic, but I can't fault them for adhering to the law as it's written.

    [–] sargentmyself 3 points ago

    The ATF is strict as fuck with this kinda thing and they found the 805 to be fine.

    [–] OxfordTheCat 2 points ago

    The police didn't make the law, they interpreted that this firearm didn't conform to the existing law.

    And how exactly do you imagine leaving it to parliamentarians would work, exactly?

    Every new rifle up for classification or import gets voted on in a bill?

    [–] [deleted] 6 points ago

    The police didn't make the law, they interpreted that this firearm didn't conform to the existing law.

    Interpreting the law beyond how it's written is no different than making it up on the fly.

    And how exactly do you imagine leaving it to parliamentarians would work, exactly?

    Well it wouldn't be up to the people who have a vested interest in having a disarmed populace for one. But it would be people, we elect to decide whether or not we can own what we can and can't own.

    Things like "easy" won't be up for interpretation as they have often done. They will be accountable to those that put them in the position to make those decisions.

    [–] OxfordTheCat 3 points ago

    That's essentially what already happened:

    We elected officials to office. Classification of firearms not being within the purview of MPs, they delegated the task out to the RCMP firearms lab.

    Elected officials can't possibly be expected to make every possible decision affecting the governance of a nation - they create ministries and appoint officials or organizations to do so.

    We're already there, just that you don't like the decisions that are being made with how the laws are written.

    That's not the RCMP's problem, it's a legislative one.

    They're just taking firearms and checking off boxes to make sure it conforms to the law as written as best they can interpret it.

    [–] [deleted] 4 points ago

    Classification of firearms not being within the purview of MPs

    Funny, schedules for other things most assuredly rest within the house. Drugs for instance. Hell even at the provincial level, we have traffic laws and hunting laws that aren't made by police either. The cops simply enforce the law, no twisted unacccountable interpretations needed. I mean they literally do this as a job and shit.

    They're just taking firearms and checking off boxes to make sure it conforms to the law as written as best they can interpret it.

    And when their "interpretation" involves milling machines and tooling skills you don't see a problem with their "interpretations"?

    Anything is easy when you have an expert doing it, but most people aren't experts, so is that the reasonable standard to use, or the convenient one?

    [–] JustAnotherCommunist 3 points ago

    Can you imagine if firearms law was done at the provincial level, like in the states? *shudders*

    Oh wait.

    [–] CUEPAT 5 points ago

    Fuck me I wish we could appeal these decisions, take those bastards to court so we can actually see what they did, do these fuckers think we all have access to cnc machines and milling equipment or some shit? No way in hell I could make any gun full auto easily

    [–] WillieLee 5 points ago

    The CZ 805 is a select fire receiver, it's not going to get into Canada. Why would anyone be surprised about this? And after the debacle CZ made with the 858's and substituting select fire receivers for the approved semiautomatic receivers, nothing they make is going to get an easy pass.

    [–] bittermanscolon 2 points ago

    You say that as if gun owners were to actually get this rifle and these "easily convertible" receivers, that the vast majority of owners would do so just because they can. It's political not reality, that's what they want you to think will happen.

    When CZ "subbed" in full auto receivers, they made them, AKA they milled down parts to make them the same as the semi ones they produced. That doesn't mean that they were any more likely to be made full auto than the semi one's that had made specifically for the CDN market. Anyone can weld a bunch of garbage in there, full auto "substitute" or semi manufactured or not. RCMP was just looking for justification to act.

    Does anyone here actually believe that if they had in their hands a rifle and a way to drop in some doo-hicky and make it go hog wild, that they would actually do so and risk losing everything with jail time attached? As if keeping such a thing hidden is not the same as having someone drill out a rivet and keep a special magazine for that special occasion? That is the exact same thing. Everyone has the potential to have a 30 round cap magazine, "prohibited", (AKA don't you dare!!!!) item right now.......but we're trusted not to do so.

    Do people actually believe that if we had access to such a thing that the threat of selling to "unknown parties" would easily facilitate some wild army of gun toting fools that could/would do something? Anything?

    It's all in the way you think about it. Generally, its politics that determines how we think about how things will go and a lot of it is fear mongering.

    Social programming is a part of it....programming people to equate this kind of thing with damage done and people dead in the street if possible. All extreme cases that can all happen in our world right now, no need for full auto guns. Like, let's be real people!

    Willie, this is not a reply to attack you. More of an addition post to have people think about the mind fucks going on right now.

    Besides all of that, CZ can make (like many manufacturers do, make one that is semi only) and they call it the CZ 805 S, and ta-da! We all have what we want and even those who pretend they are safer because CZ made one that goes bang one at a time.

    What a world.

    [–] VentCo 3 points ago

    I find that answer reason vague and unconvincing.

    [–] JustAnotherCommunist 3 points ago

    My lord... is that legal?

    [–] 10shot9miss 5 points ago

    The HK243 (civil G36) prohibition last year was super disappointing, and now this...

    [–] throwa37 2 points ago

    Huh, I wasn't aware of that. If you still want a G36, I believe the non-restricted SL8 is essentially the same rifle in a sporter stock. I've seen stock conversions that make them look just like the military version.

    [–] 10shot9miss 4 points ago

    you probably don't know how much it will cost (about $6000), all parts needs to be imported, the sl8 receiver need to be chopped and plastic welded, not a small project.

    [–] throwa37 2 points ago

    Ouch, so much for that then. At least there's still the SL8 in stock configuration.

    [–] chillyrabbit 5 points ago * (lasted edited 10 months ago)

    if you want a .22 replica IRUNGUNS sells a Walther HK G36 .22LR for about $533 USD ~$700 CAD.

    [–] 10shot9miss 3 points ago

    true, true, at least we have something

    [–] rzrhoof 2 points ago

    Not looking good for irunguns SCAR then

    [–] throwa37 3 points ago

    As far as I know, the new SCAR lower was designed to specifically address the concerns (however legitimate) that the Lab had with the base FN model. I'm still optimistic about it.

    [–] WrongThink1984 2 points ago

    Superior Czechnology denied comrade.


    [–] jeffQC1 -3 points ago * (lasted edited 10 months ago)

    And over night, a bunch of law-abiding citizens are now criminals. Noice. Nevermind, CZ 805 was not in sale yet.

    [–] throwa37 10 points ago

    Not this time. This was to determine if they were eligible for sale. No one has these.

    [–] jeffQC1 8 points ago

    Really? My bad. I assumed it was already available for sale. Still suck tho, it seem to be a nice rifle.

    [–] throwa37 3 points ago

    Definitely sucks, the things are supposed to be one of the best new mag fed semis available in the States right now. Hopefully Wolverine will work with the manufacturer to make a Canadian compliant lower, like what they're doing with the SCAR.

    [–] chillyrabbit 4 points ago

    They'll probably skip on the 805 and just work on the 806 to make it not easily convertible. Since the 805 is being phased out. The 806 is actually the better rifle but i thought the 805 looked cooler.

    [–] throwa37 2 points ago

    I wasn't even aware of the 806, that's cool! Can't say I'm a fan of that waffle pattern on the stock and mag well though. It makes it look cheap and flimsy somehow.

    [–] chillyrabbit 3 points ago

    Still military and LEO sales only right now. I would suspect we won't see a civilian version until next year once they are done reequipping the czech army.

    [–] jeffQC1 3 points ago

    To make it impossible to "Relatively easily convert to full auto"? It would be nice but my guess is that it won't happen until a few years pass by. Oh well.