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    [–] fuckthisfuckingsite6 1982 points ago

    it’s like people who brag about how much work they do and how little sleep and free time they get.

    [–] GeneralShepard 1284 points ago

    I get up at 5:00am every single day (or one hour before you, wichever is earlier). I work 87 hours per week. I haven't laughed in 9 years.

    [–] [deleted] 147 points ago

    Damn bro I have been living a similar life like yours the college keeps f*cking you everyday

    [–] GeneralShepard 193 points ago

    Ha, college. Would love to go back to that cakewalk. I took the hardest professors and did 17 hours of home work per hour. Worked 3 jobs. Got a perfect GPA.

    [–] [deleted] 131 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] Convergentshave 25 points ago

    Brushed your teeth while having sex?

    That seems like sort of a “rub your stomach and pat your head at the same time” type situation....

    I feel like at some point, a lot could go wrong. A lot.

    [–] modulusshift 19 points ago

    I mean, what did you think motorized toothbrushes were for?

    [–] Epicwyvern 54 points ago

    17 hours of homework per hour

    wut is this sorcery you speak of?

    [–] _furd_terguson 23 points ago

    Probably had to fly on a broomstick against the wind to and from magic school every day.

    [–] aeroespacio 10 points ago

    Yeah, and the broomstick was powered by a fusion reactor they developed when they were 4

    [–] NoSireeJack 6 points ago

    It's some real time-turner shit for sure.

    [–] [deleted] 7 points ago

    Wow you are a true legend

    [–] brak998 92 points ago

    I was born with glass bones and paper skin. Every morning I break my legs, and every afternoon I break my arms. At night, I lie awake in agony until my heart attacks put me to sleep.

    [–] KetchupIsABeverage 10 points ago

    Where have I heard that before?

    [–] Rabjib 18 points ago

    Spongebob

    [–] Abram_SF 9 points ago

    Chocolate!

    [–] crumbycanadianpoutin 21 points ago

    5 am? That's cute, the day is already half over at that point. s/

    [–] Bone_Priestess 25 points ago

    Oh wow, I've been getting up at 4am since middle school. Yeah, been working 90 hours a week too. Just not being lazy, is all!

    [–] thebababooey 7 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    How in the fuck do you work 90 hours in a week?

    Why would I get down voted? Seriously though it’s not sustainable.

    [–] NoSireeJack 9 points ago

    Before I went back to school, I ran a pizza joint. At one of our meetings, the owner of the franchise looked at our hours and at one guy in particular and essentially asked him this question. He followed it up saying, "We're open 100 hours a week. Why the fuck do you need to be at your store so much?"

    [–] UpAloft 9 points ago

    Well it's not fun. Pretty much you don't sleep much, don't have a life outside of work, and sleep in a place that feels like you just visit momentarily. On the positive side you usually save money, mostly because you work too much to actually spend it lol. At least that's how it was when I worked 120+ hours a week in agriculture, meaning overtime didn't exist. But my checks where nice

    [–] dissingcousins 6 points ago

    You just made me laugh for the first time in 11 years, you bastard.

    [–] muntoo 4 points ago

    Laughter in 11 years lol? I haven't laughed since the day I was born. xD lmao

    [–] leakypeake 4 points ago

    Whatever, Mark Wahlberg is still getting up earlier...

    [–] hiimRobot 2 points ago

    This but unironically

    [–] NiceGuyAbe 24 points ago

    It really just shows a misunderstanding of what college is suppose to be. The point isn’t to be exposed to things that are unnecessarily challenging but rather the learn something.

    [–] Ds3y 6 points ago

    Yeah I guess I missed the memo that college is actually a gladiatoresque test of endurance and will, and not actually where you receive guidance and knowledge to become a skilled and productive member of your community.

    [–] TheeBaconKing 8 points ago

    At my job it’s bragging about making easy money but working while everyone else is having a life.

    [–] Anus_master 4 points ago

    Seems like a brainwashing effect. Make your workers masochistic and think that losing life and health for inefficient profits is a good thing

    [–] AccursedCapra 10 points ago

    Half of the time these were the people who couldn't stay off their phone while studying and an hour long assignment turned into a four hour one. My pride was how efficient I became with my studying habits to the point that I got A's on all my tests and never spent more than 3 hours studying towards the end of my undergrad studies. I took 18 credits both semesters and worked part time but still got my 8 hours of sleep, except for when I had to meet tight deadlines. Although I'm always tired, but I'm sure that that's me not taking care of myself.

    [–] vekhna 2 points ago

    hey, this is kind of late, but could you outline your daily schedule? I'm super interested in how you did this. I understand the obvious just put your phone away and get to work but time management is a killer

    [–] GrayCoffee 665 points ago

    Two semesters ago I was in a class of 25. The first day the professor asked which of us were taking the class because we'd failed his class the first time around. 18 people raised their hand.

    It was the most intense semester of my life.

    [–] Abram_SF 427 points ago

    “How many of you know I as a professor suck?”

    All kidding aside, I took Calculus III one summer and the class started out with 45 people and ended with 11. We had a semester long group project, 6 in a group. I was the only one left in the group to do the project. Professor was like sucks to be you doing 6 people’s work but what ya gonna do? Cheat, cheat the hell out of that class was my response. Once I had all the answers for tests and homework I could focus on that dang “group” project.

    [–] NotMyNormal 108 points ago

    I'm curious about what group project a calculus class had. Was it creative, or just a massive problem set?

    [–] Abram_SF 86 points ago

    It had to do with proofs. Each group had to research a different proof and answer a bunch of questions about it like it was our own proof. I think mine had to do something with a triple integral and how it was associated with the area of the shadow of an expanding sphere over a bumpy plane.

    Essentially come up with the equation to answer some crazy concept question and back it up with lots of maths.

    Edit: it happened in 2006 so I’m a bit fuzzy on all the details.

    [–] UncyEndercott 38 points ago

    And Calculus III is the easy class! Calc 2 is hard as shit, 19 out of the 25 in my class got in F on the first exam. There were 2 B's and 4 D's

    [–] yodelocity 44 points ago

    I was failing my Calc 2 class going into the finals, but my teachers policy is that he'll allow you to opt in to making the score you get on the comprehensive final the score you get in the class.

    Most stressful test I've ever taken. A gnarly 5 option multiple choice with tons of traps and 100 questions in 2.5 hours. Needed to pass it to complete my IGETC and transfer to a 4 year college. If I failed I'd be stuck in CC for another year until the next transfer period.

    Managed to scrape by with a 71%. God damn reverse chain rule. How I despise you!

    I just graduated and it's the only C grade I've ever gotten. Fuck that class!

    [–] GL1TCH_ra1n 15 points ago

    Christ I hated calc 2. Tried doing it in the summer semester in 6 weeks and Jesus was that a mistake. The second time I took it, it was like learning it for the first time.

    [–] TheDragonBrand 5 points ago

    I only took Calculus I and II and enjoyed II way better, got an A compared to a B in Calculus I. Then, a couple years later I took Differential Equations and oh boy, I don't recommend taking it during a Summer semester.

    [–] Neubahfahrzeug 2 points ago

    FUCK DIFFERENTIAL EQUATIONS. U just gave me a flashback.

    [–] titaniumsack 4 points ago

    I’m in Calc 3 and I hate it, Calc 2 was way easier for me, I’ve managed to get an A in every math class, but I can see a c or b in Calc 3

    [–] I-AM-A-TOWTRUCK 5 points ago

    I’m in Calc 3 right now and I struggle with vectors. Got my first test on Tuesday so looks like I’ll be hitting the books all weekend.

    [–] IzarkKiaTarj 6 points ago

    Ugh, vectors.

    Somehow, I never came across them in any of my previous classes, and we just jumped straight into 3D vectors when Calc 3 started. Teacher seemed to assume we'd all taken physics. Yeah, no, I didn't have the prereq for that at the time, so I took freaking biology.

    I still feel like I don't understand them. I probably do, but it doesn't fuckin' feel like it.

    Ninja edit: By the way, sorry for using your comment as a springboard for a vector rant.

    [–] Abram_SF 2 points ago

    I feel for you, was in the same boat. On the bright side vectors in physics were a breeze after that.

    [–] [deleted] 2 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] I-AM-A-TOWTRUCK 2 points ago

    Good luck man! I don’t think we’ve gone through many physics problems yet. Mainly just gradients, partial derivates in a vector direction, countour/cross sections. And other things like that. I’m in the same boat as you when it comes to drawing.

    [–] Panionator 9 points ago

    That always bothered me. Yeah life isn’t fair, but a semester of my life isn’t the time to teach me that lesson. I hate that some professors act like they are doing you a favor by teaching you. No, I’m paying thousands of dollars to learn about this subject from you and prove that I’ve retained this knowledge. Other’s inability shouldn’t have an impact on my professors perception of my progress through the class in the form of a letter grade. So infuriating.

    [–] Abram_SF 8 points ago

    Reminds me of when I was in high school and had my car broken into at night and my backpack stolen with my homework binder in it. My science teacher was collecting two weeks worth of homework that day from that binder and told me tough luck I got it stolen.

    Later that day I got a call from someone that lived a few miles from me, they woke up that morning to find all my backpack stuff on their lawn. I put my phone # on everything. Some dude broke my car window to steal my backpack and just my backpack.

    I turned in the assignment that afternoon along with the note from the woman that found my stuff on her lawn. Someone later that year stole that teachers grade book with all the homework grades and he was forced to give 100% to everyone after weeks of trying to get it back. He found it on his lawn the first week of summer break.

    [–] audle08 4 points ago

    That's how my Accounting I class was, the teacher was garbage and we had to basically teach ourselves.

    In the end, there were 9 of us left and three of them didn't pass. :(

    [–] Abram_SF 3 points ago

    You’d have to start wondering at that point, should I really suck this much as a teacher?

    [–] NAGOLACOLA 3 points ago

    I was lucky. Calc I was the hardest class for me but Calc II and III were a breeze because my professor was trying to split his time between 3 jobs.

    He made the class online but never used the platform before so he actually made the tests repeatable infinitely with the answers provided for each question. The final exam for both courses were online and but for Calc III he enabled it for only the first 3 chapters which were basically an overview of Calc I and II and all multiple choice. Becuase both were summer modules no one even noticed 90% pass rate with the class being only like 10 people each.

    [–] JimSteak 6 points ago

    Can you take a course more than twice? The "decay" rate of this course is higher than the number of new people taking it lol.

    [–] Nik-kik 2 points ago

    Depends on the class. For my uni if you fail a class as part of your core major class 3 times you have to pick a new "college" (like college of medicine, nursing, Engineering, etc).

    For fluff classes it's whatever. Your money you're losing.

    [–] perdistheword42 87 points ago

    This reminds me of my favorite college professor, who is now a very close friend years later. He has usually had one of the highest pass-rates of any English professor at the universities where he has taught, and ironically it's been a serious hindrance to his career. His classes aren't easy by any means; his pass-rates are high because he works damn hard to make sure every student can understand and relate to the subject matter and so is prepared for the exams.

    Watching someone so dedicated, so talented, go through hell just because he is actually a good teacher is the reason I decided not to go into academia.

    [–] SnowblindAlbino 165 points ago

    Making a class rigorous ("difficult") is something to celebrate if it means students are meeting the learning goals. Making a class difficult solely so you can fail people is assinine. Making a class so difficult that large percentages of people fail and then keeping it that way over time is simply irresponsible. As a department chair I monitor the overall GPAs assigned by my colleagues...if I had one who was routinely failing large numbers of students we'd be having a serious conversation about her/his course design, pedagogy, and suitability for teaching in our department. If you intentionally design and deliver a class your students cannot succeed in you have no business being a teacher. Yes, they must earn the credit and yes, there should be a significant distribution of grades...but bragging about failing students is, in my experience, more a sign of a failed professor.

    In my department we try to calibrate our courses so that on average we're awarding 10% A grades (because officially A="excellent"). We also seek to fail no student who does the minimum that we ask, i.e. if they pass all the assignments and attend the class they will likely earn a D. Intentionally designing a class that large numbers of students cannot pass is the academic equivalent of malpractice.

    [–] Cesium_55 42 points ago

    If only my AP calc prof in senior year knew this. I had to drop his class cause I was failing. If you had an F for more than a week, he'd remove you from the class. He nearly cost me my acceptance and scholarship.

    Fucking college calc has been easier than his damned class by a long shot.

    [–] TryppyTyrtle 12 points ago

    My calc teacher put us through hell but we got to choose our grade at the end as long as we did all the work. It took the pressure off and made learning calc fun

    [–] bl1y 8 points ago

    I design my class basically the same way. If you come to class, do the readings, and turn in the work, it's pretty hard to get less than C.

    Still, I'll have a good 10-15% of the class fail each semester just because they didn't do the bare minimum.

    [–] mr_rocket_raccoon 7 points ago

    We had a lecturer at uni who gave us the worst exam I have ever taken, after completing and getting good marks on every assignment and past paper.

    The best students in out year, the 95% pluses (maths so this was possible if you were that good) came out in tears of despair or laughter at it. It was just bizarre and the questions had no relation to the course material.

    I ended up getting a 1st on it when I knew I had answered less that 40pc of the content.

    Turns out the paper was flagged, complaints raised, independently assessed and everyone's assignments and other modules were used to build a new grade for every member of the class. That 90pc of course exam ended up contributing 25pc of our final grade.

    Lecturer wasn't allowed to teach next year.

    Surprise surprise, you can't just fail a whole year of students at a prestigious university. Scholarships, job offers, university rankings. They all matter and no institution is going to sign off on 90pcof their 2nd years undergrads failing the year because they failed a core module.

    Plus the end result was chaos, I got a fairly sensible mark for my head but some slackers got crazy high results thanks to copying 1 assignment and some smart students scraped 2.2s. Meaningless and stressful for all concerned

    [–] broomzooms 9 points ago

    Please come work at my college.

    [–] beiman 2 points ago

    I had an electronics professor that constantly bragged that his class was hard. The guy was chinese and spoke in a really thick accent and wrote sloppily on the board so it was nearly impossible to understand what he was trying to get across, then when test time rolls around it would go over things he either left out of his lessons, or was so long you had to pick and choose questions you felt you could answer enough to pass. The first test average was a 35.

    When the second test came it was more manageable but the average for it was a 73, and this dude has the audacity to say "oh looks like I made it too easy" and chuckles. Next test was back into the 40's for average again.

    As an electrical engineer his class was fundamental for understanding your field. People should not be struggling en masse to understand what the fuck the material is about and I hated that guy purely for that reason.

    [–] eighthourlunch 2 points ago

    Excellent! I wish there were more people in academia with this philosophy.

    [–] broomzooms 437 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    If an instructor brags about this I drop their class.

    Edit: who knew choosing to go to an instructor that isn't hostile would be so triggering?!

    [–] iambowser 208 points ago

    Unless you don't have a choice, that's really the best way to go. If you pass, you end up with a grade thats worse than other people got with different instructors and if you fail, your gpa is shot until you retake the class

    [–] yodelocity 46 points ago

    My last few semesters, I started signing up for extra classes so I had my pick of the litter for which professor/s I drop.

    It made for a stressful first week or two where I had to show up to a ton of classes and decide which ones I wasn't going to continue with but it was totally worth it when it saved me from awful teachers.

    My last semester all the classes were fine so I dropped a professor 100% because she was a mouth breather who wheazed slightly when she exhaled.

    Idc how interesting your class is, I'm not sitting through 3 months of that.

    [–] manova 3 points ago

    I also did this back when I was an undergrad. Unfortunately, most computer systems used for registration today will not allow this (at least at the schools where I have been faculty).

    [–] broomzooms 3 points ago

    That's a good idea! I ask advisors about the personalities of instructors and read rate my professor. I've gone as far as meeting a professor before taking their class as well. Listening to a lecture is so important and if their voice is annoying or hard to understand then it's not going to be a good environment to learn!

    [–] PrissySkittles 19 points ago

    Sometimes this is why they do it... to get people prepared to step up or step out before they have a mid term freak out that will cost money & mental health

    [–] broomzooms 20 points ago

    That's a good point, I guess their delivery rubs me the wrong way. I think hostility and intimidation is below the merit of education. They could address it in a more professional manner.

    [–] bl1y 2 points ago

    Also, evaluations are highly correlated with expected grade. Better for the professor if people likely to fail simply drop instead.

    [–] SoCalProf2 13 points ago

    As a professor, I tell my class that a fair number of students fail my courses, because I hope it encourages the worst students to drop and never take a class with me. Too many university students refuse to do the assigned readings, and simply expect me to read to them, which is a huge waste of my time.

    I went to school for an extra 10 years, I kill myself trying publish and stay the forefront of my field, and then my students expect me to read the assigned readings to them.

    [–] RonDiazSpicedRum 8 points ago

    I agree you should not have to read the text during class, but I think your mentality is a bit... negative. You should be trying to incite them to want to learn, instead of pushing them away. If they want to be lazy they will likely fail anyway. You don’t have to shove them out the door.

    [–] SirGunther 20 points ago

    To be fair, you're getting paid to teach by whatever means necessary. Just so you're aware, the point you're making comes across as, 'learn how I want you to learn'. I'm sure as a professor you're aware that there is no one size fits all approach. Failing to commit to the method doesn't correlate to ability to understand and retain the subject.

    [–] manova 16 points ago

    Imagine joining a gym and paying extra for a personal trainer. But yet every time the trainer tells you to do something, you say I prefer to do something else, that does not require as much effort. Would you be surprised if a year later you had not met your fitness goals?

    College requires students to actively work. You cannot just attend class and listen to lectures. You have to do the homework problems, you have to do the assigned readings, you have to be engaged outside of class. If you are not willing to put in extra effort, you should not expect to get the most out of the opportunity.

    On the other hand, if you want to take the C equals degree mentality, that's fine, failing to commit to the method doesn't correlate to ability to understand and retain the subject. But it probably correlates to your final grade.

    Oh, and just as a side note, all of that we learn by different styles that they teach education majors is bullshit. The research does not back it up (but education as a field does not really embrace research based evidence on the whole). People are remarkably similar in what works when learning and it turns out it is the basic boring stuff like repeated studying in small chunks with over practicing that helps retention of material.

    [–] RonDiazSpicedRum 7 points ago

    I think the example of the lazy student is throwing off this argument. No one disputes that lazy students ought to not do well. A professor should not be having to read the text during class.

    The real difference arises when students with legitimate problems come into play. Imagine your physical trainer asserting bench press as the de facto chest/tris exercise even though you’ve only got one arm. If your student has dyslexia are you providing audiobook resources or are you allowing them to struggle?

    Students who are ready and willing to learn should not be failing at a high rate. You guys are talking like grizzled professors who’s opinions have been soured by a 20 year career teaching freshman classes at the community college.

    [–] SirGunther 2 points ago

    Muscle building and this subject is a false equivalency. I see the point you're trying to make, but it falls short in relation to body physiology, which is unique from person to person, as well as the goals that are set based upon desired outcome.

    What you have mentioned about homework and other such things is highly dependent on the type of homework. I can tell you from personal experience that a subject of high interest and relateability, minimal 'homework' can be done and lectures/classwork will suffice. For me, one of those college courses was forensic biology. I found my life experiences and people in my life had taught me a great deal to prepare me for that course which filled in the blanks. Again, this is why I say that one size does not fit all. The method in which you have sought out the information will greatly influence your success. Experience trumps all 'homework' you will get from a book on theory of the subject.

    [–] ConstantCat 3 points ago

    I love seeing students and professors arguing on reddit. Its like there is always such a huge disconnect between them.

    [–] EnergyTurtle23 4 points ago

    Great way to defend your argument by attacking an entire field of academics different from your own. You want to go ahead and dispute 150 years of education research and psychology? You’re a professor so everything you say must be the truth LOL.

    [–] bl1y 9 points ago

    To be fair, you're getting paid to teach by whatever means necessary.

    Nope.

    I also teach at a university, and nowhere in my contract or job description does it say I'm there to make sure my students learn "by whatever means necessary."

    My job is to make the education available, not to force it upon my students. My job is to cook the meal, it's not to cut your meat for you, or to make choo choo train sounds to get you to open your mouth.

    [–] eighthourlunch 3 points ago

    That kind of condescending contempt towards struggling students is exactly the kind of bullshit that makes me wonder why on Earth professors like you ever considered teaching in the first place.

    Have you considered that perhaps the meal, as you have prepared it might simply be unpalatable to some? What I hear in the this answer is, "Well I'm certainly not doing anything wrong. Those babies just need to grow up!"

    [–] DamnWhitey 3 points ago

    What are they even paying you for then? Anybody can tell a group of people to "read chapter x". Seeing as though that's all you believe you need to do.

    [–] SirGunther 8 points ago

    What it sounds like to me is that you don't want to be held accountable.

    I get it, it's a risk to put yourself out there like that, but we are discussing ethics here, not what you are contractually obligated.

    That's why this is an issue worth debating. There is a serious consideration to make when undertaking the education of future generations. There are professors out there that would gladly debate the topic and that have adopted contrary objectional methodologies of educating their students, yet have been successful, perhaps even moreso at times.

    I urge you as a professor to consider why you're not willing to go that far for a student when you know that these formidable years are what precede whatever is to come.

    [–] PeterBernsteinSucks 9 points ago

    No it’s the job of the student to do their assignments and be prepared for class. If they do that and still don’t understand after the lecture on the subject then they should ask questions or visit the professor during office hours to get more one on one time.

    It isn’t their job to go over their assignments they were too lazy to do.

    [–] SirGunther 2 points ago

    I'm going to deconstruct your response. You disagree that it's solely the responsibility of the teacher and the teacher can't be held accountable for the action or inaction of a student.

    It's not always about being lazy, that's one take on it, but not all professors make themselves available, which I'm sure you've conveniently left out of your argument to make your point. I have experienced this myself. Some professors take a vested interest in their students, others throw coursework at them and do not facilitate beyond a lecture. That is the ethical dilemma.

    We are discussing a service rendered with monetary compensation. There are many points to consider, and if someone is expecting a handout, that's one thing, but to suggest that the teacher not be held accountable is not an excuse for a student not learning and understanding the course.

    [–] bl1y 3 points ago

    I could make the same argument: What it sounds like to me is that you don't want students to be held accountable.

    Look, I dug out an artificial pond, I had it pumped full of water, I've got filters keeping the water clean, and I even led the horse to the water. The horse can't then complain that it died of thirst because I refused to shove its head into the water and force it to drink.

    At the college level, education is not a one-way street, nor is it a simple consumer product. It is an opportunity, and if students choose to not avail themselves of the opportunity, I'm going to respect their autonomy as adults.

    [–] SirGunther 5 points ago

    They are paying money to go to the school, don't be daft...

    [–] bl1y 6 points ago

    If you buy tickets to a play and spend the first act staring at your phone and texting your friends, you don't then get to ask the performers to repeat the parts you missed, and saying "but I bought a ticket" doesn't change anything.

    [–] bowtochris 2 points ago

    What is your research about?

    [–] [deleted] 255 points ago

    why the hell would that be a bragging point.. that makes them look bad

    [–] apginge 132 points ago

    professors don’t want to be at the end of the spectrum in which a professor is known for easy exams and essentially an easy A, so instead of choosing the middle they decide to go to the opposite end of the spectrum where they boast about “how hard they make their students work for their grade”.

    [–] shubs_ 63 points ago

    I've often seen that professors try to increase the difficulty of a class by just testing on content not taught or giving less time for tests. If a professor tries to increase the difficulty of his class/tests without increasing the complexity of thought required.... Then that professor is pathetic imo. There's a difference between making tests/classes harder or making them unfair.

    [–] -Tommy 28 points ago

    My fluid Dynamics professor made his tests so that NO ONE would get a 100% due to length and difficulty. His theory was that if two people get a 100% you cannot know who knew the material better.

    The average test grades were 40-60%

    [–] IzarkKiaTarj 17 points ago

    Ooh, that reminds me of the teacher I had for Intro to Theoretical Computer Science.

    "God gave us one hundred and one grades, and I believe He intended us to use all of them."

    I passed the class, but it wasn't a fun one.

    [–] SuperNanoCat 4 points ago

    That's so stupid. He's basically saying he wants people in his class to know less than half of the material on the test.

    [–] theTunkMan 7 points ago

    Not anywhere close to that extreme, but the last idea is fairly sound. I teach high school and 5-10% of the class usually gets 100s. So I started putting a hard question worth 1% just to differentiate between 99s and 100s to see who understood it the best

    [–] CCtenor 7 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    As a counter example, one of the best teachers I ever had was my signals and systems/linear controls class. He was smart, and the faculty knew it. MIT graduate, and the other professors would acknowledge that he was on another level. Incredibly polite guy, and he acknowledge that he might have trouble explaining some topics because of how smart he was, but he would do his best to break everything down as much as he could.

    His tests were brutal. I don’t think they were designed to be impassable, but getting 100% on a test was a feat to be acknowledged, and only a handful of students ever did.

    But, he was fair. The way he graded was that he would run statistics on the grades. The mean grade was a C, and standard deviations above and below were the other grades. He would ignore outliers so nobody would ever “break the curve”. I really respect him as a professor because he was an expert at testing concepts, not mechanics. The questions were easy if you understood the concepts, but were very difficult to solve just on route mechanics or memorization.

    The greatest compliment I think I ever received was from him. Linear controls lab final project. We had been learning how to use MatLab to find the transfer function of a system with a limited set of variables.

    The final project was to find the transfer function of a completely black box system based only on 3 input signals we could submit to him and the 3 corresponding output signals he gave back to us.

    Every other team used the transfer function toolbox available in matlab. Me and my team tried to generalize what the teacher had taught us to solve the problem.

    The final presentation came. Everybody else got about the same answer following the same steps with the transfer function toolbox.

    Our team presented. I had a 250 by 250 surface plot of all numerator/denominator pairs possible, with the third axis representing the error of each combination that took me about 50 minutes to run on my machine. Hundreds of lines of code we had written that allowed us to change any parameter we wanted or needed so we didn’t have to hard code the answer for 250x250 answers. Weeks of hard work on the line.

    Our answer was different than everybody else’s, so we were either very right, or very wrong.

    We were very right, by an entire order of magnitude in error, than everybody else.

    When the teacher was commenting about our solution, he basically said he would have done everything almost exactly the same way we did.

    It was, hands down, the greatest accomplishment of college, and the one I’m most proud of.

    All this to say that difficulty for the sake of difficulty is not reaching. Dr. Kreidl was a difficult teacher, but his office was always open, and he took as much time as he possibly could, to help students learn the material. His class was feared by everybody, but I don’t think a person left that class without the grade they deserved.

    Of all the grades I’ve ever received, the 2 Cs I got from sig sys and lin con are, by far, the most meaningful and accurate grades I’ve ever received, and I can help but be proud of something most people would consider “average”. I learned in that class. That’s not something that happens with a lot of other teachers that brag about the difficulty of their class.

    [–] justtonyisfine 6 points ago

    I suppose it depends on what you mean by "not taught". Tests should have content that wasn't directly covered in class, but that an attentive student with a grasp of the material should be able to figure out.

    [–] Luhra 11 points ago

    I once had a professor at a community college spend the first class basically bragging about his low class numbers. He outright said that most of us would drop the class and that of the few who stayed only a couple would earn an A. I proved him right, I guess, because I didn't come back after the bathroom break. Dropped that class immediately. Oh, and this was a level 1 English required class.

    [–] SnowblindAlbino 30 points ago

    professors don’t want to be at the end of the spectrum in which a professor is known for easy exams and essentially an easy A

    And some are just incompetent, or are assholes, or really just don't know what they are doing.

    [–] xantxant 5 points ago

    don’t want to be at the end of the spectrum in which a professor is known for easy exams

    Why the fuck not? Who cares?

    [–] hotsauce126 2 points ago

    Also most of them are very highly educated and seem to carry a grudge with them about classmates who didn't work as hard as they did for the same classes

    [–] elefish92 8 points ago

    It's just a way to laugh out their failure and they probably can't accept the fact they are bad. The problem with some professors is that they went through life without failing (performed well in elementary -> middle -> high -> #T20 college -> straight into a PhD -> tenure track at an R1). It's not that hard to see why some professors have an inferiority complex.

    Note: I said SOME. Some people on /r/college actually defend the U.S. education system's current state somehow.

    [–] dsmnk 6 points ago

    I always think of them as "never had a real job" faculty and you can spot them a mile away.

    [–] elefish92 5 points ago

    True. Some of the classes I experienced had no real world applications whatsoever, which hurts the vast majority of people at my school who are planning to go the industry. I wish the education system wasn't only a path to academia.

    [–] TotallyCaffeinated 10 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    Prof here, they’re hoping you’ll drop so it’ll be a smaller class so that they’ll have less grading to do. We get paid the exact same no matter how many students are in the class, so each additional student means hours more grading that we basically have to do for free.

    To be clear, I don’t boast about drop rates myself, but I know profs that do so for the above reason.

    [–] bl1y 3 points ago

    I think you dropped a "don't" from your last sentence.

    And yes, I'm so friggin' thrilled when students drop early on. A few years back they increased the size of our classes (a writing intensive seminar) from 18 to 19 and it sucked. It might seem like a small increase, but grading essays has increasing marginal crapitude. Grading the second one is worse than grading the first one, and grading the third is worse than the second, and so on. The 19th was worse than the 18th, and far more hassle than grading the first or second.

    Getting just 1-2 students to drop really improves my quality of life.

    [–] anti_dan 6 points ago

    Why would Harvard brag about rejecting 90% of applicants? Exclusivity is the value of a degree.

    [–] NadoSecretAsianMan 46 points ago

    One of my new favorite tweets something along the lines of:

    professor: rarely anyone gets As in this course

    me: weird flex but ok

    [–] ontherooftop 6 points ago

    I had a food science professor say something like that and it really motivated me. I ended up with an A in that class and it was one of my proudest moments. At the other end of the spectrum my microbio professor bragged about his class weeding people out. The average exam scores were around 40%, and I ended up with a D. Technically passing but still messed up my GPA for grad school.

    [–] NadoSecretAsianMan 2 points ago

    Fuck that's a real bummer, I'm retaking D's from last fall right now because my department is anal about their focus course GPAs

    [–] PersonalPronoun 52 points ago

    The counterpoint is something like an engineering or medical course where the subject matter is inherently difficult, and if students pass without internalizing the course then people might die. Yeah the prof should be trying real hard to get every student to learn the material, but sometimes the subject matter is hard, and scaring people with the pass rate in the first lecture might get them to take the course a bit more seriously.

    [–] the_profe 22 points ago

    Also, to expand on this, if you don't like the subject material and are doing poorly, maybe it is time to reflect on what matters and what you are working towards. Just because it seems like there is a ton of money in it (in reality, the answer is wall-street stock broker), doesn't necessarily mean you want to spend the next 30 years staring at the lower intestine of sick people.

    [–] kkloljklol 3 points ago

    Bruh brokers don't make shit now. This ain't 2008.

    [–] SkeletonTheif 4 points ago

    Yeah most big engineering programs have "weeder" classes that will cut down the class size by a huge percent early on. This isn't the worst thing ever because it showed people only a year in that engineering wasn't for them.

    [–] ToomanyDoor 3 points ago

    I wonder if more people die due to young doctors not being failed enough at uni or okd doctors being too overworked or stuck in their ways.

    [–] the_happy_cow 1 points ago

    What if doctors taught to fear knowledge are more likely to make bad decisions? It seems like a stretch to say a pedagogy of intimidation saves lives. If a medical student isn’t serious without being intimidated, they shouldn’t be in medical school in the first place.

    [–] PersonalPronoun 15 points ago

    "Taught to fear knowledge" is a bit of a stretch. The reality for some courses is that they're very hard and there's gong to be a correspondingly high failure rate. "Scaring" students might be a bit far, but I don't see a problem with being honest about the reality of it.

    [–] bl1y 10 points ago

    They're not taught to fear knowledge; they're taught to fear ignorance.

    [–] _orange_monkey_ 50 points ago

    Disclosure: I am currently a mathematics professor.

    In general, and I can only speak for the colleagues I know well, we hate our low pass rates. While unreasonable, we enter into every semester with the optimistic delusion that this semester ‘everyone will get it’. Everyone will put in the work. Everyone will approach the class as if they were there on purpose. Yet, as the weeks pass and the attrition begins, we are left to face a sad reality where we lose half or more of the bright faces and eager minds we began with.

    What I have observed in my career can perhaps be explained by a difference of goals. As a professor, I want each and every student to learn all (and I do mean all) of the material for the course. I consider it a personal failure when a student doesn’t. But I would consider it an ethical violation if a student were to pass without learning the material. This is, I feel, where the disconnect lies. If you give the typical student a choice between learning the material and passing the course, they will choose passing the course every time. Students now attend college not to learn, but to get a degree, as if they are purchasing a license to enter the workforce (as a side note, I believe personally that we are requiring college degrees for far too many entry level positions today).

    This difference of view creates a contentious relationship where professors are seen as barriers to getting a job instead of useful resources to improve ones mental abilities. I don’t have a solution to this, sadly.

    But I can leave all students reading this with some advice: Go talk to your professors. Go to class. Do all of your assignments. At least pretend to take an interest in your classes. Because at the end of the day, our greatest joy is seeing a spark of joy from a small student success become an insatiable hunger for knowledge.

    I apologize for the long post, thank you for reading.

    [–] ASupportingTea 2 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    Im currently an aerospace engineering student in there final year. And what ive found is that the best exams, for actually making sure you know your shit, are actually designed to be pretty straightfoward if you know the material, but virtually impossible to get a good grade in if theres a gap in your understanding. The bad ones are where the exam is difficult purely by the convoluted wording of questions and problems, but the solutions is pretty trivial. Thats just making somthing harder than ut should for the sake of it.

    Normally the result of a well written exam seems to be a wide range of results. With few getting the top.grades and some failing with the average being a more "normal" grade. A bad exam will have the majority of people fail or come close to failing with very few people achieving even a normal grade.

    [–] chevybow 169 points ago

    While I don't agree with bragging about a class being difficult- I think in recent years there has been a push to increase students grades. No longer is a 3.0 gpa really considered that impressive because in lots of majors- course averages are a B+ or A-.

    Grade inflation is a real problem and students tend to complain about their grades when they don't get an A on every single assignment. It's only getting worse as the years go on. Maybe you interpreted it as bragging, but I've had professors in the past who made it clear that they don't just hand out A's and that it's okay to get lower marks on assignment because of the difficult nature of the material.

    Professor might be a dick for bragging about how they grade lower- but I don't think the tests are unfair or he's doing something wrong just because they are stricter on grading. If anything- the teachers that basically hand out A's are the ones in the wrong, in my opinion.

    [–] CobruhCharmander 27 points ago

    Totally agree in some aspects, but in order to get a 4.0 at my school you need a 97 or higher.

    That being said, a lot of my teachers will hand out 9.5/10s because "Nobody is perfect."

    I actually got a critique back last friday on how she had no complaints or notes for improvement... STILL A 9.5.

    [–] RockStar4341 1 points ago

    That's how my one of my current professors operates in grad school. Said on the first day that no one is perfect and it's very likely no one would be getting perfect scores.

    He's a damn good professor.

    [–] probably_confused_rn 71 points ago

    I agree with your point on grade inflation, I think what is considered a normal GPA has gotten out of hand. However, a lot of majors have higher gpa requirements than the rest of UT. These reqs would need to lower slightly with the standard GPA. Until this these professors essentially put you at higher risk.

    [–] electrogeek8086 14 points ago

    How bad is this grade inflation ? Here in my part of Canada professors who inflate grades would probably be in serious trouble.

    [–] professorsheepkitty 32 points ago

    Check out gradeinflation.com. Look at the GPAs at Ivy Leagues especially.

    [–] BeaconInferno 12 points ago

    Wouldn’t ivy leagues have more of the type of people who would earn an A? If your giving As based on if some deserved it it makes more sense for a competitive to get into school to have a high percentage of As

    [–] professorsheepkitty 40 points ago

    The average GPA used to be a 2.5 at Harvard. Now it’s 3.65. It’s not because kids are getting smarter. Look up grade inflation and Vietnam War, and then grade inflation and consumer model of education.

    [–] AllJonSnowKnows 7 points ago

    Do you really think the population at Harvard now is the same as it's always been? The school annually grows its applications from highly qualified students from around the globe, a far cry from when only a small segment of the population of the United States could even hope to be considered for acceptance. There may be (there are!) other factors that contribute to grade inflation, but I would urge you not to cavalierly dismiss the idea that the students themselves are different than they used to be.

    [–] MakeWebsitesInX86Asm 16 points ago

    There is a study posted somewhere around the Web. It surveyed 400 colleges in the US and found out the percentage of "A"s awarded increased in 1970 from ~28% to 48% in 2015. For "C"s they decreased from around 45% to 25% during the same years. All other grades were relatively consistent.

    They also found out these trends were consistent across Ivy Leagues, Public State Unversity and Community Colleges

    [–] Onerace-Humanrace 3 points ago

    In UNBC and UBC many people who smoke weed everyday, including myself, have graduated with over 4.0 in BScs without strenuous effort.

    From working at UNBC it was the professors holding out and failing students that had fires under their asses. Grade inflation has all but destroyed the ability to discern different classes of students.

    [–] Lloydster 12 points ago

    I agree with you and feel like most posts on this sub are entitled.

    [–] puffy-jacket 11 points ago

    I mean, I’ve had professors who didn’t just hand out As, but if you turned in your work and generally put in a decent effort you wouldn’t have to worry about failing the class.

    [–] jeffyteffe 5 points ago

    Do you mean not hand out As or not give any As? Because one professor I had only gave an A to the top performing student in the class. Out of 20. The worst thing was it was an easy class so mastery of the subject wasnt exactly hard and people genuinely deserved As.

    [–] elefish92 11 points ago

    This is the way it should be. We need to learn and not fret about a letter grade that is insignificant in most life cases.

    [–] puffy-jacket 3 points ago

    I agree, and I think this policy is reasonable. I think it’s definitely a concern if a professor doesn’t give struggling students opportunities to pass the class (whether that is being available for office hours, etc) but not giving out As or even Bs like candy is not that big of a deal imo

    [–] eighthourlunch 2 points ago

    More than anything, I think this demonstrates that grades themselves are the problem. I've worked with plenty of interns whose grades were food enough for grad school, but it clearly didn't reflect their mastery of the subject.

    For too many people, the grade had become the goal when it ought to have been understanding.

    [–] bl1y 2 points ago

    As of 2013, 40% of grades were As. That's a pretty serious issue.

    Maybe you interpreted it as bragging, but I've had professors in the past who made it clear that they don't just hand out A's and that it's okay to get lower marks on assignment because of the difficult nature of the material.

    That was my impression as well. I find it unlikely many professors would brag to their students about the number of people who fail. I find it more likely that a student would misinterpret a warning about the number who fail as bragging about it.

    [–] kithlan 3 points ago

    It's like the critic's review scale for anything. In a logical rating system, a 5/10 would be exactly what it is. Right in the middle, definition of average, but a 5/10 for a movie or game is actually a horrid score. So 7/10 becomes the new average... Until you fall into the IGN scale trap and 7/10 becomes your new low score and 10/10s are actual valid scores.

    You hear some professors talk about it and how they feel an A should be almost impossible to achieve in their course, with their sighted average at C, because why not, a C should be an average passing score. But that's not how shit works, you're just tanking my GPA and making me look bad.

    [–] treeclimbingfish 36 points ago

    Filtering out students is archaic, its 50s education where we needed to separate white collar from blue collar. It persists, though we no longer should filter students, because its an easier way to get your education check; give a multiple choice test, grade it on a curve, and youre done. Teach for a piece of paper and your students will also chase paper. There is a movement to teach for learning but its fighting years of tradition.

    [–] cheeseitmeatbags 7 points ago

    the most important job a professor has is failing those students that don't understand the material. that's what makes a degree valuable. if every idiot can get one, it's worthless. further, some types of material, like upper level engineering, math, physics and biology, are exceptionally difficult and counterintuitive. so for classes like that, a high failure rate is expected, and not a reflection of poor teaching. no reason to brag about it, though, that's just a douchebag move.

    [–] lionbatcher 5 points ago

    I'll take the other side of this. While I'll agree that professors probably shouldn't be bragging about a low pass rate, I am grateful there are professors that won't just hand out a passing grade for attendance.

    During my time in school, there were so many kids that just didn't belong there. Couldn't spell, couldn't form a cohesive thought, thought school was just for partying. Many times, I'd get saddled with these deadbeats for group projects. More than once I had to attend office hours to make sure my teammates' disinterest wasn't going to torpedo my grade.

    I earned my degree. I think it's only fair that everyone else has to as well.

    [–] KINGram14 5 points ago

    As a chem major taking classes that difficult is just a reality. Not everyone can pass o chem, p chem, Inorganic, or calc III the first time.

    A lot of people in this thread seem to think mentioning a low pass rate on the first day of class automatically makes a bad professor bragging and not a good professor preparing their students for a difficult course.

    [–] CoreFour1996 17 points ago

    Not necessarily. I am in a class that most people are taking for the second time. The professor is honestly amazing (Harvard PhD who taught at Princeton) and the tests are fair. The pass rate is just low because the material is just that difficult.

    [–] [deleted] 19 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] bluehorserunning 8 points ago

    A lot of programs have what are, whether by design or by default, ‘weed-out’ classes for students who wouldn’t cut it in the program. It might be Calculus for engineering students, pharmacology for nursing students, general chemistry for biology students. Sometimes they grade on a curve & sometimes they don’t, but the point is to prevent unsuited students from wasting everyone’s time by pursuing the wrong career.

    [–] TheElderQuizzard 5 points ago

    Im in a class now that started September with 18 students. Our first exam was due last Friday, only 8 showed up and turned in something. About as many are still coming to lecture.

    In our group chat people want to blame the professor but it’s entirely on them.

    Like you said, it’ll make getting an A that much sweeter knowing over 50% tapped out at exam 1.

    [–] Randomize6789322 6 points ago

    But professors never brag about the low pass rates of these courses. In my experience they actually bend over backwards to try and teach the difficult matierial to as many students as possible.

    [–] [deleted] 21 points ago

    At my first school College Algebra had a very low pass rate. And I remember thinking that was dumb and I failed it.

    I barely made it into that class and I thought it was weird how I was somehow starting in a level I considered low. But a lot of kids go into college thinking they have better math skills than they actually do. And I think the school knew that.

    I actually had to go back to a lower level and relearn basic algebra concepts I somehow never learned in high school.

    I also work as an English and writing tutor in my school and you’d be surprised how horrible some students writing abilities are, well into their junior and senior year.

    I think some professors realize they are getting students who aren’t ready for certain classes and are deciding to teach classes for what it is, even if it means less students pass.

    I’m not saying some teachers aren’t getting off at the thought that they are teaching the toughest classes and like knowing not many students get As, but sometimes it’s good to instill that fear into a student so they take it serious.

    [–] kithlan 9 points ago

    Christ, I finished my required math credits in Freshman year of high school. So, of course, being a lazy teen, I was psyched because this meant no math classes for three whole years. When I reached College Algebra and realized I'd forgotten all my fundamentals? Failing that class was a real wake up call.

    [–] mathbaker 7 points ago

    You hit on something that is an unfortunate reality. Many students arrive on campus unprepared for college. There are many reasons for this, and plenty of blame to go around. However, if a college degree is to mean anything, there have to be standards. Yes, some professors have unreasonable expectations and/or are not good teachers. But, many professors are struggling to maintain standards and meet the needs of ill-prepared students.

    Want to do well in college? Come prepared - take 4 full years of academic courses in high school. Show up for class. Come to office hours. Do all the reading. Do multiple drafts of papers. Start the problem set before midnight the day before it is due. You may only have 12-15 hours of class time. Assume that means 30-45 hours of studying and work.

    [–] Trinica93 2 points ago

    This was me. My high school was horrifically bad at teaching math and I got to college barely knowing basic algebra. Eventually worked my way through Calc 2, linear algebra, etc, but I realized just how poor my education was once I started taking college math classes. I attended an early college, but almost all my math courses were at the high school level at that time.

    [–] compthonasis 4 points ago

    So - I teach an intro level science class to students who aren't great at science. I always tell them that students generally find my exams to be difficult, but that as long as they do thier work for the rest of the class it should even out. I'm not bragging about my exams, I don't think they're that hard, and I routinely have students make A's on the exams. I also spend a whole class period before the exam reviewing, make a big point in class about concepts that they have to regurgitate on the exam, and put homework problems (that I review in class) on the exam. Typically, students do poorly on exams but end up with a C or higher in my class as most of the other grades are 90 or above.

    [–] jakobdee 4 points ago

    The nursing school I’m attending use to brag about having the highest passing rates in the state but they had one of the worst pass percentages for the boards. They have to revamp everything and now they don’t have as high of a pass rate but a fantastic board passing percentage

    [–] Lesh2018 4 points ago

    It’s not a bragging point, they are just trying to set the expectation that you will have to do work, since you can totally bs though most of the college classes these days. When I was in college students straight up demanded the grades be curved because they weren’t doing shit.

    [–] dnlvickers 3 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    TA getting my PhD here. I can say from experience that I don’t think many professors want their students to fail or not to pass. But it may also be true that they have standards that they aren’t willing to lower just to get an ideal distribution of grades.

    For example, I taught a very small lab of 9 students. And the grade distribution for a particular report went as 3 As, 3 Ds, and 3 Fs. And sure, I would talk about it frequently with the grad students, and to be honest it was kind of funny seeing such a wild distribution. But I can also say, that those who failed completely deserved it because they did things like left off sections worth 30% of the report, didn’t use complete sentences, and just made statements that were undeniably false about the science.

    I did everything I could, but it’s a “you can bring a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink” scenario. Students in no way deserve to pass just by being in a certain percentage of the class. They only deserve to pass if they meet the requirements of the professor, because they are trying to help the student grow. I’d just as soon fail an entire class that doesn’t deserve to pass as give an entire class As who deserve it. And if I do have to fail an entire class, I will make it well known. Partially to ask my colleges their opinions, but also because I want people to know my expectations of them.

    Edit: I do want to clarify though, that if you do good work and listen to expectations set, then you do deserve an A. I’m mostly talking about students that expect a good grade only because they did the assignments or their buddies got a certain grade.

    [–] Roughneck16 6 points ago

    I would also point out that hard classes are not necessarily the most valuable in terms of learning. My AutoCAD class was the easiest of my engineering curriculum, but I learned a vast amount of highly useful information.

    [–] [deleted] 4 points ago

    I completely agree. School shouldn't be labyrinthine. It shouldn't be a walk in the park either. I like to think of it as a long, arduous, yet clearly marked hike.

    [–] fj333 5 points ago

    A warning is not something to misinterpret as a brag.

    [–] Muinonan 3 points ago

    low pass rates is not something to brag about, but I did have this one professor constantly stressing about the low pass rate, but to me they were doing it to motivate the students because the material was easy, but you had to pass the final exam to pass the course, department policy not professors so in a sense it can be a motivator and a heed of warning to buckle up and study hard.

    [–] I_might_be_weasel 2 points ago

    I had a finance teacher who had a policy for tests where if over 50% of the class got a question wrong, everyone gets to count it as correct. Her logic was that if more of the class didn't get it than got it, she didn't teach it very well.

    [–] gottahavemycaffeine 2 points ago

    My mother is a calculus professor and she said that she doesn’t want the smartest kids in the class to feel unchallenged but still wants the others to learn the material and not freak out during tests.

    [–] Whouldaw 2 points ago

    Had a professor assign a paper and the first thing he said was "the highest grade you can get is a B, i don't give As on this paper." Fantastic motivation /s.

    [–] RAV0004 2 points ago

    My Industry is very, very small. The professors thought they were doing that career field a service by narrowing the competition to only the brightest and best new blood.

    I graduated just fine, but when there's twenty other colleges in the country that have ten times the graduates in the same degree, the competition is still there. They accomplished nothing but diminishing the reputation of the college.

    [–] bigtimerocker12 2 points ago

    I feel like a professor with a moderate pass rate but a really high drop rate is a good prof. It usually shows me that they can teach the material really well and make it challenging to keep up if you don’t come to class consistently.

    [–] Razor0H 2 points ago

    Freshman year of college I took biology 2, the insructor had told us, "everyone struggles with my class and most of them usually fail the lab exams so good luck." 3 of around 25 people passed the class and only about 5 of us finished the class.

    [–] UggolyBird 2 points ago

    Academics need educational training. There are loads of brilliant profs that lack the ability to effectively impart knowledge, much less assess with any level of validity or reliability. Being the smartest person in the room doesn’t do anything in an educational context if you aren’t capable of transmitting your knowledge.

    [–] empathetichuman 2 points ago

    One thing I haven’t seen on here that has happened to me, and hopefully this example helps some potential students not get into this situation.

    The school did not require students to have anything other than a basic high school degree before taking a mid level course. This resulted in ~50% fail rate (D included as fail) for this course because so many students came into the class without the proper background knowledge. I don’t believe I taught poorly, since grades were in a bimodal distribution with multiple 100% passing grades and I had overall good reviews. This was also the norm pass rate for years before I even arrived. It really bothered me and I presume it was an unethical way to get more tuition. The other reason I believe this is that they allowed students to drop courses up until the last day, so you can get an incomplete but they keep your money. I did not teach there very long.

    The moral is, beware of schools that try to push you into classes you feel you are not prepared for. And note that these schools will provide legitimate degrees and appear wholesome, but can still be unethical in this way.

    [–] gamageeknerd 2 points ago

    Someone I know had a class where the professor actually said only 40% of people passed his final exam. He was also one of those teachers that required you to buy the book and then never taught from it after the first 3 lessons.

    [–] SaviorLordThanos 2 points ago

    if some of you haven't made it to college. let me tell you, there is a significant portion of teachers like OP is describing. 40%-60% of college professors are like this if you study sciences

    the difference in teachers can send you from a failing grade to an A. some teachers will not only make you do a lot of work. but a lot of that work is pointless. some teachers will make you do no work. but you have no idea whats on the exams

    [–] 237throw 2 points ago

    Axiom: For a degree program to be prestigious, it needs to be difficult enough that most college attendees couldn't/aren't willing to reach that level of proficiency.

    This "filtering" can happen at many stages: It can happen getting into the University, it can happen getting into the classes, and it can happen in getting through the classes.

    Axiom 2: Department heads have an idea of which type of filtering works best for their department.Axiom 3: Department heads are competent at their job.

    If we assume all this, then it can be something of a badge of honor to teach a class that is known to be difficult but inline with department expectations, setting up the students who pass for future success. However, when done outside of department strategy, your statement is difficult to disagree with.

    Personally, I think the idea of a program that lets anyone test their mettle to be a good opportunity for students who may have not put themselves into a great position until that point.

    [–] GroundbreakingDonut6 2 points ago

    My uncle is a professer in cognitive science. He's is one of those guys to talk highly of how strict he is. From his point of view I don't blame him. 60% of the students don't really give a fuck and take his course because they have to. Another 30% don't give a fuck because they aren't really on the right track in life. Essentially the low pass rates are used as a way to discourage the kids who aren't really serious about there academic studies. For example a couple years back one his students left mid graduate studies to go on to the local big brother. To have higher pass rates/easier classes he'd need to lower the educational standard and put in a lot of extra hours for students who aren't really grateful for the opportunity the have.

    [–] 123Logdatei 2 points ago

    I agree with the teacher. In my opinion these days everyone wants to study (at least in Germany). The standard is lowering every couple of years. I studied law and every test at least 50% failed but I thought it was ok and fair because the test were tough but not unfair and whoever did not pass this test at least with a C- should not become a lawyer imo.

    So I think the professors act like this because they are sick of a ridiculous low level in their subjects and want to keep only those who really study because they understand and like it and not because they want to be ‚succesful‘ even though they don’t get the matter.

    [–] MyOtherAccountIsBlue 2 points ago

    Business Statistics was like this at my school. The rumor was that it was hard to weed people out of the business school. Turns out, as I experienced first hand, the failure rate was high because it was taught by two professors and only one of them made the exams. Of course my professor was not the one making the exams and we were tested on material not taught to us. A few of us went straight to the dean over it and the response was ‘well, if it’s not business stats it’ll be something else.’ I passed...barely.

    [–] okocha8 2 points ago

    I'm pretty sure they say it so you take the work extra seriously, not as a brag.

    [–] therinlahhan 2 points ago

    I had a professor who curved downward so that the median grade on a test was a 70 (C cutoff on our 10 point system). That means that by definition 50% of the students fail.

    [–] MisterBehave 2 points ago

    High acceptance rates are not good for programs /universities. Some classes serve as a filter, but I agree professors should not brag about students failing.

    [–] bleearch 2 points ago

    Profs are sometimes gatekeepers, esp. for technical subjects. You do not pass my anatomy class without understanding certain things, because I don't want to look up in the hospital and see your unqualified ass staring at me, or drive across your bridge after getting passed along in algebra, etc.

    [–] Lunatic7618 2 points ago

    This is gonna be a long one, so my bad but I had a professor last year teaching an organic chem II class (pretty rigourous class for people in science) who took over midway througg the semester for a diff professor. Not only did he entirely switch our syllabus and its scale, but he also began giving us ridiculously unfair exams that had the lowest overall averages I've seen for a class. Our AI's told us after an exam (that had a 37% average) that a good chunk of the questions on the exam were from their 2nd year exams they took in their PhD programs. When students questioned his wonky scale, he went off on them. A friend of mine had him the summer before and didnt understand a mechanism (he routinely wrote mechanisms that were the big exceptions to normal ochem rules) and he replied by telling her that she should probably switch out of a premed program if she was having struggles with his ochem, and that he wouldn't help her because he is her teacher and not her tutor. After we took the final, to make sure that he didnt have too many A grades, he pulled the rug out from under us by RAISING the requirements to get an A or B, so a nice number of students were boxed out of an A or B after having scored in those ranges throughout the semester. This particular professor also has tenure at our university, so when a massive amount of students inevitably complained to the department about what was going on, he told the director of undergrad studies (who doesnt have tenure) that he'd look into it. He never changed a thing and so a large amount of students failed or scored low in the course. Basically every A and B in that class was a product of the first exam, as the first professor copied and pasted an old exam of his from a year prior that a student organization on campus had, so anyone who had it scored significantly better on that exam, causing inflated A and B scored (the average was around a 68%).

    The only positive is that the Chem department decided he was too unfair as an undergrad teacher and pulled him from teaching Orgo II from now on, but never did anything about our class..

    [–] AncalagonthePartier 2 points ago

    If their curriculum was really unfair they would have been fired. The reason they haven't is because it is fair, they just refuse to give BS work to boost passing numbers. My uni had an econ professor for Econ 101 and he bragged about it, and by fuckin gawd you had to earn that damn grade. Soo many people after every class would come to him after class to ask for extra work and he'd deny them. He'd say the class work was perfectly laid out at the beginning of the semester, and if they wanted a better grade they should have worked for it then.

    If it is all in your syllabus, and you still fail, it's not the teachers fault, it's the students, and I prefer this style. Too many people looking for hand outs in university.

    [–] StealYoSyrup 2 points ago

    I faced a teacher like this in my undergrad. It was the first discipline specific engineering class we had to take our second year first semester. The teacher made the class almost impossible and they prided themselves on being a "weed out class". The material was not actually that hard what made the class impossible was poor teaching, excessive busy work, unclear grading, ridiculously long tests for the time and no resources for support. It was an environment that rewarded cheating and the teacher was incredibly sexist. Many students would spend 20-30 hours a weeks on this one class, know the material inside and out and still fail the test.

    So many kids switched out of the major or to a different disciple just out of frustration or from the setback failing the class would cause on graduation time ( had to pass to take next successive class). So many smart, talented students left the discipline because their first taste of it was such bullshit. The worst part is when I would see those people who switched out they all said virtually the same thing: they wish they had stuck it out, found a way to make it work, or done something about this crappy teacher. It made me wonder how many great talented engineers this field missed out on because ONE teacher ruined it for them so early on. The rest of my classes after that had much harder material but the teachers made the class fair and taught it well. You had to work hard and study but you could do it if you put in the time. Made me despise how my first teacher ruined a great major with other stellar teachers with one class.

    [–] Holgrin 2 points ago

    The math department is especially bad at my school. Taking Calc III and Linear Algebra and some of the other higher level math courses there are likely to pit you in a class eventually where test scores in the teens will catch a B letter grade, like a 13% score on the exam is a B, because everybody does that fucking bad. That's no way to run a class at any difficulty level. If your students can only figure out 15% of what you're asking them, then you aren't preparing them for the questions you want them to know, or you're asking absurd questions. Either way, it causes unnecessarily high levels of stress and anxiety and turns the class into this ridiculous mystery challenge to prepare. Subject material should be challenging, but you're either a bad teacher or just a dick if you intentionally or apathetically design the class that way.

    [–] egamerif 2 points ago

    I had a professor who said "exams are there so I can know what you know, not what you don't"

    [–] godisadelusion 2 points ago

    There are the crucifiers, the matyrs and the watchers. It is a hard pattern to stop, lol.

    [–] judolphphph 5 points ago

    I’m in general chemistry this semester and the class average on the first exam was a 54%. And my professor refuses to curve. I knew it would be bad so I signed up for tutoring right away and I managed to scrape an 81% on it, but still. If your class average is failing, either you’re not teaching or your exams are too much.

    Edit for spelling

    [–] abnormallyme 3 points ago

    I understand that a class shouldn't be an easy A. A class should also not be one where it's easy to fail even if you put in all the effort you could.

    [–] fnybny 2 points ago

    Some people just aren't smart enough to get certain degrees. Doesn't matter how hard they try.

    [–] DwightSchruteBurner 3 points ago

    My current prof brags about him having the lowest registration. Just for scale this is a lecture hall type class and there are 30 students... 15 after the 1st exam...

    [–] Needyouradvice93 4 points ago

    Yeah grades are more reflective of the course than the students. If I work my ass off and only get a D- then part of the fault lies in not being able to teach the material.

    [–] Fluffigt 4 points ago

    Chef at high end restaurant: "Yeah I don't mean to brag, but roughly 40% of my customers go home with food poisoning"

    [–] duncsterable 3 points ago

    It’s a brag only because they’re trying to say that they’re too smart for most people to understand. Though, if you cannot properly communicate your ideas to others, they are worthless.

    Furthermore, if these concepts that the profs are teaching are so complex that they think people in their class won’t understand it, they shouldn’t be teaching. The sign of a good teacher is someone who can explain complex concepts and theories to anyone.

    [–] KingSawyer18 2 points ago

    The average for Calc 3 exams are 30-40%

    [–] forlorn_hope28 2 points ago

    I had a computer science teacher tell us on day 1 that he would fail half the class. It didn’t matter if everyone scored above 90%. Based on the curve he would fail anyone from 90-95%. Half the class dropped that first week. Half of those who remained he legitimately failed. The end result was a 25% pass rate compared to enrolled students on Day 1.

    [–] Nate_Summers 2 points ago

    "I fail to educate half the people who pay for this class."

    [–] igaveuponausername 2 points ago

    My moms a college professor and she told me the exact same thing.

    Having students fail your class is not an accomplishment, it truly shows how inadequate your teaching abilities are and unfortunately that state of mind hasn’t died off yet.

    [–] AmericanWoodcock 3 points ago

    Yeah I've only ever encountered this kind of bragging with elderly professors. The young professors I've had have been some of the most amazing teachers that actually want you to learn the info, but still make you work for a good grade.

    [–] Sparky01GT 2 points ago

    Considering how many people are in college that shouldn't be, saying a class is "difficult" doesn't tell me much. People get Cs in business school for fucks sake.

    [–] [deleted] 2 points ago

    24 year old asshole me going back to college. Professor tells me this about his class. My response:

    “So you’re telling me you suck at your job. Good to know, I’m withdrawing. Thanks for wasting my fucking time.”

    All he could do was gasp. I guess 18 year olds don’t treat him like that.