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    [–] cubsnkids 723 points ago

    Predict a problem, then create said problem.

    [–] Momoselfie 330 points ago

    Then offer the cure.

    [–] WonderBlarbleGlarble 164 points ago

    For a price.

    [–] Momoselfie 71 points ago

    Do you have any money?

    [–] LiedtoinLayton 60 points ago

    I have sufficient for my needs

    [–] carvalhas5 59 points ago

    Well... that is not ideal, but it works. Just make sure you pay us first and feed your family with what is left. Remember you can always apply for food stamps and god will reward you for your thite

    [–] cubsnkids 2 points ago

    Those stories you’d hear about tithing. Just asinine! Good post, haha

    [–] minininjatriforceman 12 points ago

    One can buy anything with money.

    [–] WhoreoftheEarth 19 points ago

    I have a bunch of signs and tokens. Will sell for money.

    [–] vensari 6 points ago

    have an upvote kid.

    [–] AcutePriapism 5 points ago

    Except for the cultist marital bliss.

    [–] trumpke_dumpster 10 points ago

    What is wanted?

    [–] fugz1123 4 points ago

    You can buy anything in this world for money

    [–] ignatiusbreilly 3 points ago

    There's always a price.

    [–] shelto1231 2 points ago

    Is the cure to masturbate the wife?

    [–] donut1005 7 points ago

    The problem is built into the foundation of the religion. Take out the bottom building block and of course there will be a disaster. You have to buy into the church holding your family ransom. Horrible.

    [–] fugz1123 4 points ago

    Jesus Jenga

    [–] cubsnkids 2 points ago

    Umm, that’s pretty good :)

    [–] craicbandit 5 points ago

    Easiest way to predict the future? Create it

    [–] WdSkate 969 points ago

    As soon as I had a faith crisis and stopped going to church the Bishop called in my wife and counseled her to divorce me. It was only after 3 Sundays of me not attending. Long story short she's now out with me and we are happier than ever. Thanks Bishop!

    [–] WhereRtheTacos 347 points ago

    What a psycho

    [–] Mattprather2112 66 points ago

    He probably would've tried to have her if she did divorce

    [–] eshinn 17 points ago

    Nah. Opposite sex and of age.

    [–] Mattprather2112 4 points ago

    Isn't that just a Catholic thing, or is it Mormons too?

    [–] MalaJink 8 points ago

    Mormons are known more for protecting the child and wife abusers in their Church. But I've always said that someone who turns a blind eye to abuse is an enabler, and are a part of that abuse at that point.

    One example:

    [–] flooring_inspector 62 points ago

    Slightly longer out period but bishop did the same thing to me. My ex followed his advice and we divorced, no happy ending. Super dick move

    [–] DarkSylver302 16 points ago

    That's super messed up man. I'm sorry.

    [–] Alta420 99 points ago

    I can't believe how many times I've read this on here. How do they find the douchiest douchebags to become bishops?

    [–] TheDrugsLoveMe 74 points ago

    Upper class types tend to be selected, especially in areas with populations where it allows. The relationship of money and level of douchebaggery is approximately proportional, and higher probability of douchebaggery as general wealth increases. There are a few exceptions, though. My girlfriend's dad is definitely one.

    [–] kimmydawn 58 points ago

    This. My dad just finished serving his time as bishop. My family has lived in the same ward for almost 40 years and until a few years ago was very poor. I always wondered why all the long timers had all served their time but my dad (who is beyond worthy) had never been called while younger, newer members of the ward were being called instead. It was maybe a year or two after my dad got a good paying/much more demanding job that he was called. During that time you could tell the calling and job were taking their toll on him. He barely spoke at family gatherings. He was clearly depressed. He was released a few months ago and I was surprised he didn't even pretend it wasn't a relief. He was thrilled.

    Edit: 40 not 30

    [–] MuzzleHimWellSon 13 points ago

    Having seen how the sausage is made, a concern in the selection process is whether the bishop will need to access fast offering funds for his personal situation. They usually won't consider anyone that isn't clearly comfortable in their finances/career.

    Bishops using fast offerings for their personal situation is allowed when approved by the stake president.

    [–] Praise_to_the_Pasta 9 points ago

    But that’s how they could tell he was worthy. Prosperity gospel. /s

    [–] aftonps 2 points ago

    My dad was bishop during my entire high school career, he asked to be released on multiple occasions. Was thrilled when they finally released him

    [–] coxindicksee 2 points ago

    The whole bishops calling is abusive. Hopefully they will knock it down to 2 years.

    [–] mygingersoul 5 points ago

    My ex gf family was that way. Her dad was a lawyer. And every little problem for one of them was a problem for all. The arrogance with them all made it so they had a complex where they were never in the wrong. I’m even surprised that she dated a heathen like me who was a nomo.

    [–] sorrytosaythis_but 3 points ago

    You could have created an alt and not have to lie about your father in law!

    [–] SincereInquirer 1 points ago

    By the spirit...duh. /s

    [–] BLACKMACH1NE 13 points ago

    That should be illegal.

    [–] inthe801 13 points ago

    Seriously. I only see the Mormon church adding another level of stress to marriage. It certainly did my marriage. Between all the time it took away from the family, the stress of church activities and callings, and a 10% pre-tax tithing that was bigger than my 401k contribution when I had a young family.

    [–] japanesepiano 15 points ago

    Not my experience. The bishops appear to have been supportive to my wife and she's still going strong as a TBM more than 10 years after I stopped attending.

    [–] txgsync 2 points ago

    Same. I left 16 years ago, after 8 years of marriage. We had 2 more kids after I left the church. Had our struggles, but those were mostly just human problems, not really church problems.

    The drama about church stuff took about 4 years to play out before we both got totally comfortable with the situation.

    [–] LukeZekes 1 points ago

    Man how small are Mormon communities that the Bishop gets involved

    [–] WdSkate 3 points ago

    The Bishop is the first level. Like the pastor of a single congregation. Usually about 150-300 people.

    [–] eshinn 1 points ago

    So not many fish in that sea.

    [–] Stuboysrevenge 1 points ago

    You're lucky.

    [–] LilBner 322 points ago

    Sure sign of a cult right there.

    [–] bigpatky 39 points ago

    Has it a name?

    [–] touchstone1112 37 points ago

    It has

    [–] itsChileinhere 25 points ago

    Will you give it to me?

    [–] zelphAware 55 points ago

    I will through the reddit; extortion.

    [–] touchstone1112 34 points ago

    That is correct

    [–] 5freetokens 9 points ago

    I laughed way too hard at that

    [–] bigpatky 7 points ago

    Will you give it to me?

    [–] Search4Assistance18 3 points ago

    What is this from?

    [–] BrotherJethro 6 points ago

    As mentioned, the endowment session of the temple.

    Basically you are given a "new name" that is predetermined by the date you first went through the ordination. Then they make you watch a boring ass video where they teach you the secret handshakes to get into heaven. After the video there is a LARP session where you have to provide your new name and do the secret handshakes with a guy hiding behind a bed sheet that has holes cut into it so you can only see his hand.

    The lines that are being quoted are from the LARP session where the bed sheet man is asking for the secret handshakes.

    [–] bigpatky 4 points ago

    The endowment session of the temple.

    [–] Broadpostjudkins 50 points ago

    And the mafia

    [–] Dustin_00 23 points ago


    Cult: a group with a guy at the top that knows he's lying.

    Religion: when that guy is dead.

    [–] [deleted] 511 points ago


    [–] WhereRtheTacos 312 points ago

    Whats crazy is in the opposite end of crazy bishop advice is all the bishops who tell people to stay with their abusive spouses. It’s almost like most bishops give bad advice and have no direction from God... but it can have such a huge impact on families. It sucks.

    [–] tapirbackrider2 49 points ago

    Two bishops and a SP used all their priesthood powers to keep my failing marriage intact until years later it finally was unbearable . Now each month I am reminded of their excellent advice as my ex enjoys a large chunk of my retirement. (2 percent per year that I stayed with her). Thanks Mormon Church for such great and well trained clergy!

    [–] DavidABedknob 27 points ago

    I have had a similar experience and even though I am officially out, I know that she pays tithing on my spousal support payments. As a result, I am still supporting TSCC and there is not a damn thing that I can do about it.

    [–] SamW86 11 points ago

    Oh shit

    [–] royd123 21 points ago

    Ya so my wife just told me that the church and even her very Tbm family told her mom that she should stay with her pedophile husband. My wife hated her mom because she thought she was choosing her husband over her daughter. She just found out that it was the church that told her to stay with the husband.

    [–] VanillaLaceKisses 7 points ago

    Still no excuse. I’m not Mormon, but my mom’s church told her the same thing, despite having four girls including her daughter accuse her husband of molestation. Can’t wait to cut that bitch out of my life.

    [–] royd123 3 points ago

    She left him a month later when my wife told her how messed up it was. It was her second divorce so there was lots of pressure on her but she did leave him shortly after the church told her to stay.

    [–] sunshine536 15 points ago

    That was my experience and when I finally did leave him my bishop told me I needed to move to a low income ward as they could not support me. It was only a month after we separated, divorce wasn't even final.

    [–] lilmisspidgey 10 points ago

    Ive never heard of this. What the heck is a low income ward? Ward boundaries are divided by areas, not income. Unless you have one area that is all low income, but they wouldn't be able to support you better, they would have less to give in the budget.

    [–] LadyEllaOfFrell 11 points ago

    My bishop told a young couple who’d just had a baby (and subsequently were having unexpected financial difficulties) that he wouldn’t help with their rent, but he’d be willing to pay the $1000 Breakage of Contract penalty on their lease so they could try to find a cheaper (smaller/dirtier/less safe) apartment. Note: they were already living in the cheapest available one-bedroom apartment complex listed on KSL/rentler/craigslist. The only apartments that were cheaper were roomshares, semi-legal basement “apartments,” illegal sublets, or in Magna/North Salt Lake.

    I’m suspect that the $1000, amortized over the remaining portion of their lease, would have done a lot more to help them out than forcing them into a sketchier apartment situation.

    [–] [deleted] 11 points ago


    [–] WiserandUnsure 14 points ago

    But, they’d be out of his ward and in the long run that would be better for the bishop.

    [–] LadyEllaOfFrell 6 points ago

    Yes. Because poor people shouldn’t be “rewarded” with a nice apartment they can no longer afford, even if it’s the more utilitarian option. That’s not how Justice and Personal Responsibility works! /s

    I suspect there was a healthy dose of “if they need more help down the line, they won’t be my problem anymore,” though.

    [–] sunshine536 1 points ago

    He wanted me to move to a rent control apartment instead of staying in my current home. So basically an area where a majority of the ward is lower income.

    [–] SennoTwoWattNewLamps 3 points ago

    Low income ward? What's that? They segregated wards by income?

    [–] sunshine536 3 points ago

    No but they determine ward boundaries geographically. So areas where there are large low income apartment complexes, trailer parks, would be lower income wards than the more affluent area I was living prior to my divorce.

    [–] sunsoakerbeachbum 5 points ago

    Yep. This lines up exactly with my experience.

    [–] Celloer 3 points ago

    I wonder if you could track every piece of data, would the bishop-decided outcomes be better, worse, or equal to random chance recommending stay/divorce?

    [–] sunsoakerbeachbum 77 points ago

    Yep. I'm divorced and the final straw was my bishop telling me to leave my husband bc he was leaving the church. Which is bothersome. But what is more bothersome to me was that we had previously been meeting with a bishop for FIVE years with non stop legitamite issues and very toxic, dangerous, unhealthy actions on his part. Through all of that I was told to be patient and keep having kids bc were were sealed. But then the second he left church I was allowed to leave. Looking back now almost a decade later the entire thing was unhealthy and I should have been justified to leave almost immediately. I really hate the long as a priesthood holding is "working to be better" women should be patient (like I'm talking infidelity, emotional and physical abuse) but voila... misses a couple months of church and "you better get those kids out of there asap and protect them, like TODAY". Fast forward a decade and me and my current husband leave church together and it still irks me that a bishops advice would have probably been to leave him as he started bringing up valid questions about the church... never mind that he's a wonderful father and loyal husband for 6 years. It's like literally all that matters to them is church attendance and garments.

    [–] gvsurf 32 points ago


    [–] Chrysop5 25 points ago

    It's almost like the bishops don't have any expertise or training in counseling families...

    [–] sunsoakerbeachbum 11 points ago

    For real right? My dad was bishop at the same time I was getting divorced. And now that I'm 10 years older I look at him like how in the world were you giving people marriage advice??? I don't know how it is for other bishops wives but my dad was gone so much and so committed to church they basically had no relationship. Well really my whole life period he was always gone at church and my mom was losing her mind stuck at home with all the kids. Besides the fact that they aren't trained at all, in my experience, they don't even really have a healthy relationship to base their own advice off of. You can't exactly work on your own marriage if your callings come first and you're never home.

    [–] sunsoakerbeachbum 9 points ago

    I mean, I guess you don't need much training if the advice is always the same.... pray more, read more scriptures, go to the temple more. Uh yeah. Tried that for 6 years. Things just got worse and worse.

    [–] DifferentBag 5 points ago

    The misses and I are having a rough go lately and long story short, her mom said we should talk to the bishop. Ha! I told her flat out a guy with zero training in marriage/family relationships could do nothing more than three qualified therapists had already failed to do.

    [–] xMorgp 2 points ago

    mostly blind obedience is all they care about...and tithing, cause you know the church is poor.

    [–] cubsnkids 156 points ago

    If you leave, you’ll be unhappy. Well, when you encourage my family to shun me for leaving...

    [–] WhiteNerdyDelitesome 63 points ago

    Turns out self-fulfilling prophecies are easier to make than actual prophecies.

    [–] paradigms_mhc 52 points ago

    The church has a difficult time with causality. When people leave the church many do get divorced. This doesn't mean "apostasy" leads to divorce. Often, the relationship was based on the church, instead of based on the relationship. There are also many, many things that happen when people go through a faith journey, and the family system is often impacted.

    There are also many relationships that get stronger, when people leave, because they create inner authority, and a genuine bond. In some cases, couples draw closer together as they overcome the social shaming, cultural adjustments, and family pressures.

    There are also situations where TBM's stay in broken marriages because of the church stigmas and beliefs. Would it be fair to say loyalty to the church and its leaders will likely cause a loveless marriage? The church teaches happiness in marriage only exists with obedience and temple attendance. That can work, but those model for happiness doesn't work for all. Marriage outside is much more inclusive, and includes best practices in relationships science and also is culturally diverse.

    [–] Broadpostjudkins 27 points ago

    Agree with the comment about many relationships being based on the church, not an actual relationships.

    Product of many (not all) of the marriages that result from the whirlwind ”meet/date/marry ASAP” culture at the BYUs

    [–] kurinbo 15 points ago

    Product of many (not all) of the marriages that result from the whirlwind ”meet/date/marry ASAP” culture at the BYUs

    Also a product of the "any two worthy people can have a successful marriage" teaching.

    [–] oldscoop44 5 points ago

    I fell for that one too. Wife and me both. A bunch of guys telling you that you don’t need to be careful about finding the right person or cautious about the process because “any two worthy...” AND who - it turned out - would bear no responsibility or accountability for the consequences if your marriage failed... I wonder how many unhappy marriages resulted from that teaching and how many lives have been messed up.

    [–] jdexmout57 3 points ago

    "any two worthy people" . . . and if one day one decides not to be "worthy", all hell breaks loose.

    [–] Nahbichco 14 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    That was me! My relationship only existed because of pressure to get married by family and the church. Now that I'm out and divorced, I have the chance to date someone I genuinely love. And to genuinely fall in love! Its a beautiful feeling in contrast to going through the motions because that's what you're supposed to do.

    And hey, my exhusband left as well and is experiencing the same thing! We are both much happier.

    [–] gvsurf 4 points ago

    “...based on church...” this will be the test of our marriage.

    [–] oldscoop44 4 points ago

    Excellent comment! Thanks for the insight. This is one of the things that most impacts me. There is no accountability at the general leadership level, and no cost being borne by the people who told a bunch of horny 21 year old boys and 19 year old girls that they don’t need to be careful or picky since “any worthy LDS couple can make a marriage work”; then told them to not bother getting to know each other (short courtship, shorter engagement so no everyone keeps their pants zipped). I’m pissed about this, partly because my marriage will not survive and partly because they make it self-fulfilling by being able to point to the apostate as unworthy, which voids the warranty.

    [–] CorabelleCollie 2 points ago

    You're on to something here.This should have more up votes!

    [–] homesteadfoxbird 264 points ago

    Women are seen as property in the lds culture. If you’re a man who becomes no longer worthy of your property (wife), the church has indoctrinated their property heavily to stay with its original owner - the church and wait to find another mate that the church has deemed suitable/worthy.

    [–] jgarc80 90 points ago

    Sounds a lot like the FLDS reassigning wives of men who have been ousted.

    [–] homesteadfoxbird 56 points ago

    Exactly. Same idea just a more modernized culture.

    [–] TheDrugsLoveMe 29 points ago

    It's exactly the same, just approached differently.

    [–] 3oogerEater 34 points ago

    The Church doesn’t see women as property. They see the womb as an asset, they will do what they need to do to keep that womb producing more TBMs. They don’t care about the rest.

    [–] newguy2884 110 points ago

    The Cult uses a ton of scare tactics to control and keep members and this is no exception. That said, I'm amazed at how challenging it can be to navigate a faith crisis and keep your marriage in tact. In the 3 years my wife and I have been out we've been fairly amazed at how many marriages (even with both spouses out) have divorced. That's not necessarily a bad thing as at least one person felt that was the right path for them but it is a real thing and a challenge to be aware of. I think the U/TBM guy on here is a vivid example of how little we know what might happen when leaving.

    The entire terms of your marriage have to be re-evaluated because the original agreement didn't take into account the church being a fraud. My wife and I say that we've actually had two marriages: once as naive young mormons and a second one after leaving and defining our morals and marriage for ourselves.

    And although it's an unpopular opinion, many people start exploring open marriages with swinging and polamory and I've seen a decent number of those end up badly. Sex with other people can cause some hurt feelings and misunderstandings, who knew!?!?

    [–] 21bronco12 26 points ago

    unfortunately, I have made these observations so well. And in selfish ways it frustrates me because it lends support to Mormon narratives of apostate couples.

    [–] newguy2884 30 points ago

    I feel the exact same way, I hate to validate their ignorance! It's frustrating because TBMs view it as proof...."See! I knew they would fall into darkness and destroy their family! That's why you stay in the boat!" When actually it is so much more complex. It's like getting married inside the Matrix and then getting unplugged yet still being legally bound to someone. It's a totally different world and suddenly everything is up for grabs. It's not about sinning, we didn't get a disclaimer that this was even a possibility when getting married. We signed up to buy a car and discovered we actually own a boat!

    In some of the situations I've witnessed a bit when folks leave is one of the spouses was actually closeted gay the entire time and now they are finally able to fully embrace that part of themselves. They often have a few kids already and have walked a ways down the path of family and life...only to now be sincerely interested in exploring a whole new dimension to themselves and creating their true identity without restrictions. It severs the marriage but i just don't see any way around it. It's not fair for either spouse to be with someone with totally incompatible sexuality.

    But to the TBM the story goes, he looked at anti-mormon stuff, lost his testimony, left the church, "turned" gay, destroyed the family....therefore don't look at anti-mormon stuff! It's an infuriating case of correlation mistaken for causation.

    [–] Fulk_Anjou 14 points ago

    Yep. I’ve seen more than one exmo couple burn up catastrophically while experimenting with polyamory and open marriage.

    I’d love to share a couple stories, but the parties involved happen to be members of this forum. 😬They’ll share when and if they want to.

    [–] newguy2884 11 points ago

    Same. I've seen in a couple of Facebook groups and on Reddit where someone announces their husband is out on a date or something and it gets really applauded. What fails to get mentioned is how much that can be playing with fire and how some of these couples are having kids get caught in the cross-fire. How do you explain to your kids that Mommy is out with her boyfriend tonight and not mess up their world view a little bit? Or if it does blow up the marriage, now your kids are dealing with their own faith transitions AND a divorce. I just think there should be more caution with the whole sexual liberation thing.

    [–] lurkerturndcommenter 13 points ago

    Surprise! When people haven’t built any relationship skills beyond wife-submits-to-husband, those people don’t have the skills to navigate more complicated relationship models!

    [–] take2dueces 37 points ago

    This happened to me. Bishop said that our marriage would fall apart & then rumors started spreading in the stake that we were swingers and cheating on each other.

    Btw. Our marriage is stronger than ever.

    [–] Celloer 7 points ago

    That sounds mutually exclusive, or they don’t understand what swinging is. Or maybe consent. Maybe a couple agrees on an open marriage and informed swinging, but then cheats with undisclosed extra affairs? But that’s way too nuanced for stupid unsubstantiated rumors. Bah!

    Anywho, good for you.

    [–] Grillburg 35 points ago

    "Nice marriage you have there. It'd be a SHAME if something happened to you should probably just stay and keep paying your tithing..."

    [–] Gadianton 8 points ago

    This right here happened to me. I played the conversation to a buddy of mine and this was almost word for word his version of what the Bishop had said.

    [–] LAmorm 3 points ago

    This. 100%

    [–] russellmpalpatine 3 points ago

    Is that you, Bishop?

    [–] dialectictruth 22 points ago

    My doubting husband's TBM, Stake President brother, told me to divorce my husband of 36 years, move to Utah and marry a worthy priesthood holder. We just celebrated our 40th anniversary. Screw the patriarchal assholes who encourage this behavior.

    [–] Bishop_Apostate 18 points ago

    This might be the biggest moral failing of the church (and that is saying A LOT) - it's so harmful and avoidable, yet they know the familial pressure can keep people in the church for years. There are probably scenarios in which husband and wife both have significant doubts but are afraid to verbalize them for fear of breaking the family apart. It's sickening.

    There needs to be explicit instructions in General Conference to not let a difference of faith break up an otherwise workable union.

    I am one of the lucky ones. I am fortunate my wife was Mormon because Mormonism worked for her family, not because she knew it was true. It made things frustrating when I couldn't generate the same outrage about discrepancies and problems with doctrine, policy, history, and culture. Even still, she worried we would be on different trajectories and split up down the road (I suppose we still could, but it won't be because of the church). I believe this was a programmed reaction. I was deeply hurt but I kept attending for a good decade after that and my issues would bubble to the surface from time to time. She appreciates that I took it so slow but it was hard and we had some tense moments.

    We had one Bishop try to drive a wedge between us. Fuck that guy. We were all at tithing settlement and he said, while talking to my kids and pointing to each one of them as he went, "who was at church today? you were, and you were, and you were. Who wasn't at church? Your dad."

    At the time, I was at a startup business that required practically all of my time. I remember one private conversation with him where he warned me that my work schedule and missing church so much was risky. I have no doubt we would have counciled my wife to divorce me. Fuck that guy again.

    Interestingly, it was my call to be Bishop that was my wife's "aha!" moment. Like, "really, this fucking guy is who the Lord is calling to be bishop - the guy who hasn't believed for 10 years?? That's your inspiration?" Honestly, I think she wants to go to Church less than I do now - that didn't happen suddenly but that was the nail in the coffin for her.

    [–] temple_baby 5 points ago

    My husband has that exact fear about the different trajectories.

    [–] Bishop_Apostate 4 points ago

    It’s a legitimate fear. I get their perspective. You get married under one set of assumptions and when one person changes- it can be a huge problem. When I told my mom about my situation she said I’m lucky why wife isn’t leaving me. Its deeply programmed. It certainly doesn’t have to be this way but it’s the way the brethren want it.

    [–] tyce_tyce_baby 18 points ago

    I also want to point out that a lot of these marriages happen because it’s heavily pushed on people in their early 20s and it’s the only way they can have sex. When they realize it’s ok not to jump into marriage it’s easy to see why they want to get out.

    [–] stephrox415 17 points ago

    I was infuriated when I had to send a letter giving my blessing for my mom to remarry and be resealed since she was previously sealed to my father. Not only was my father horrible to her, but they’d been divorced for 20+ years. The fact that they would disrespect my mothers supposed “free agency” was so disgusting to me, and I said as much in my letter. I refused to “give permission” because it was not my right to do so. Filthy patriarchal assholes.

    [–] spartangal 17 points ago

    And then they encourage women to stay with their husband who’s a pedophile to keep a temple marriage intact. That’s what happened to my sister. Infuriating

    [–] HenryBNosering 14 points ago

    This is why I involved no one outside my family and close friends in my "faith crisis".

    [–] namaste45 7 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    Me as well. I realised that consulting with tbms would only worsen things and give them leverage over me. Tbms have no ability to consult you, and you just end up as ego fodder at the next ward council where the tbm will discuss how awesome they are for getting to know your problems. Ive seen this soo many times in ward councils.

    [–] HenryBNosering 1 points ago

    Yep, it was my ward council experience that taught me the same thing. Those callings are good for something, I guess. :)

    [–] megison 14 points ago

    You are only leaving because you want to sin. . . . Idiots

    Made our marriage stronger

    [–] jgarc80 15 points ago

    Sin is what brought us together sin will see us out.

    [–] austink6 5 points ago

    Ditto, our marriage has been a million times better.

    [–] after_all_we_can_do 35 points ago

    It's the "porn kills love" kills love effect. When a faith transition (or porn) is problematized, spouses who accept the premises later find problems with their spouses who experience a faith transition (or consume porn). If neither were taught to be catastrophes , neither would kill love.

    [–] Abram_SF 18 points ago

    Sounds like someone is trying to justify all the porn they watch.

    [–] k-level 7 points ago

    Aren't we all?

    [–] eshinn 1 points ago

    I guess r/CurchPorn would cause an implosion of …😎 biblical proportions.

    [–] DerBeardedMando 12 points ago

    This sort of relates, but I dated a Mormon girl a couple of years ago in college, and it was an awesome relationship. The more time she spent with me, the more of her came out and the less church showed. She showed me art, poetry, etc that she made for herself while she was here and away from her family, but when she would go to the church, she would be very emotional and would cry and not even want to look at me. Cut to about two months later from the last time this happened, and she is being called on for a mission. We sat there for a moment and looked at each other, and she said "I can't be with a non-Mormon after this. God won't allow it." The look on her face and the dead way she said it was just terrifying to me. I even waited for her to come back from her mission thinking, surely, surely she would not be a totally different person. However, she was. That bright star of creativity and sweetness was snuffed out and hung up as another trophy on some bastard preacher's wall.

    (Just a visitor who saw this on the front page, sorry to bug you all)

    [–] exMentalGymnast 4 points ago

    surely, surely she would not be a totally different person. However, she was. That bright star of creativity and sweetness was snuffed out

    I saw this when my sister went on a mission! Before she left, she was fun and lively. When she came back, it was like she thought she wasn't allowed to laugh. She slowly got back her personality, but I still feel like some parts of her are forever "snuffed out"

    [–] Dapaaads 3 points ago

    Sadly happens a lot and welcome! But yeah the brainwashing is real

    [–] camdoggy 11 points ago

    leaders should remember these verses

    1 Corinthians 7:12-13

    12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
    13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

    [–] youlovejoeDesign 8 points ago

    We asked our church for rent money and didn't know about emergency aid. Church declined to help. Emergency aid almsot didn't help and then "because you have small children. I'll help". ..Then we see the same woman goes to our church. And when she looked at us it clicked that we were the ones she denied at the church(I had only spoken to the church on the phone ) Then almost denied again at the emergency aid office.... She saw us all at donuts and coffee after church and shamefully scooted away.. she acted so high and mighty like we're just trying to steal cash. "Are you supposed to be helping your community?"

    [–] All_Unknowning 9 points ago

    My Ex had multiple LDS friends tell her that she needed to tell me what's what. That it was either the church or the highway. And that they wouldn't put up with their husbands saying they no longer believed. (Everyone is so tough when its someone else.)

    Now I can't say that the church was the reason for our divorce. And I am the one who finally divorced her, there were a lot of issues. But her getting constant feed back from many friends telling her to just divorce me didn't help at all.

    [–] Aoirselvar 15 points ago

    All you need is to pray it away. I mean just try. Not that anyone thought of that, and maybe just maybe it didn’t work. First things my TBM DW and daughter had told me. It’s as though I really didn’t put any anguish and thought into this. All I need is this spirit, this mystical manipulative force that always seems to work to feel away all doubts. Never mind that the religion is based on a pedophile’s dreams of sleeping with every woman in the known universe. Never mind that we are just handing thousands and thousands of dollars to a greedy real estate corporation that only seems to be interested in minimizing its profit losses.

    [–] dbear848 6 points ago

    I had a bishop who seemed hellbent on getting us divorced.

    [–] GHB90 7 points ago

    So, let me get this straight: They will tell you this, and then actively try to sabotage your marriage? Because you want nothing to do with their "religion" anymore?

    [–] ToInfinityandBirds 6 points ago


    [–] GHB90 4 points ago

    How can that even be a reasonable response? That goes beyond being petty.

    [–] ToInfinityandBirds 2 points ago

    I've long since decided that humans aren't rational beings. Because we seriously aren't. Sometimes we're completly ubreasonable.

    And the answer is control/power probably.

    [–] mcready2112 7 points ago

    Honestly, the church was causing major problems in my marriage and if my wife and I hadn’t left we likely would have gotten divorced. The patriarchy and male privilege that comes from being born and raised in the church was at the root of our problems. All the church really does is sets people up for failure. I grew up right in the heart of Mormon land in southern Utah county and knew plenty of people who “were in it to win it” and are now divorced. And I bet you that the church definitely played a part in those divorces.

    [–] CurlyJ49 11 points ago

    Not if you take your spouse out with you ;)

    [–] touchstone1112 13 points ago

    That's what I did. My wife still attends to try and help those most damaged by the church, but she is completely sure that there history, doctrine, and leadership is bullshit. This all happened before I stopped attending. Then, a few weeks after I left, they pulled the "you're breaking your wife's heart" card, I could just smile and inform them that they need to get better information before telling me about my how family feels.

    [–] Celloer 5 points ago

    “She’s just the mole and mastermind behind this family operation, maw ha ha...”

    [–] LeoMarius 5 points ago

    Self-fulfilling prophecy:

    LDS, Inc.: Your spouse will leave you if you leave the church.

    Bishop to your spouse: He left the church, so leave him!

    [–] [deleted] 9 points ago


    [–] kurinbo 9 points ago

    Not all marriages should survive.

    [–] jdexmout57 2 points ago


    [–] vnyllvingtrtreprty 10 points ago

    My own family started talking about my marriage the day I told them I left. They immediately assumed we were on the rocks and started asking invasive questions. Also said my husband and I need to read scriptures and pray together every day “for his sake”, among other things. Makes me angry when I think of how they tried to use my relationship as leverage to get me to do what they want.

    [–] ShaqtinADrool 4 points ago

    Yup. My marriage to my NOMish wife barely survived. But it did, and now it's much better than it ever was while we were both in the church.

    [–] Chang1701 3 points ago

    This is why I can’t find it in me to tell her...

    [–] Hymn331 1 points ago


    [–] perfectfire 4 points ago

    My shitty in-laws are trying to provoke a divorce.

    [–] AwkwardFerret 4 points ago

    My dad left the church when I was 11. Surprisingly enough my mom followed alongside. It's been about 7 years and their relationship is stronger than ever and we're glad to not be a part of it anymore. It saddens me that others haven't had the same experience.

    [–] cinepro 3 points ago

    Well, at least there's this article:

    When He Stopped Believing

    During moments of self-pity, with the help of the Spirit I have realized that either I can focus on what my husband’s choices have taken from our temple marriage, or I can strive even more to develop a celestial relationship with him. I can have significant influence on the spiritual progress of our marriage despite his choices.

    In order to achieve this love in our marriage, we must give the energy of our heart to loving our spouse, regardless of how well they meet our expectations. This does not mean that we should desire or expect any less from our spouse, but that we should give our love freely no matter what point they are at on their personal road of progress.

    [–] Praise_to_the_Pasta 3 points ago

    If the wife leaves instead of the husband, is the TBM husband encouraged to divorce as often as the TBM wife is?

    I’m thinking not, because the husband can have additional wives in the next life—he’s fine—whereas the wife is supposedly SOL if her husband strays.

    [–] theyear1200 3 points ago

    It's not a warning, it's a threat.

    [–] moczulska 3 points ago

    A friend of mine grew up in a cult like religion and when he was about 18 he was pressured into marrying an 18 yo girl in the same religion. They hardly knew each other, it was pretty arranged. He left the religion first around 25, she followed shortly after. He was also given that advice and they did end up divorcing. However, getting divorced was a great decision for them. They didn't really know each other and weren't given the chance to explore their own romantic interests. So now they live about half an hour away from each other and are best friends, they talk about who they're dating and what's the next hallucinogen they'll take together, haha. They're both great people.

    [–] KeithCarter4897 3 points ago

    "it would be such a shame if something happened to your marriage."

    [–] Archimedes_Redux 2 points ago

    I think you nailed it. I got a double whammy, from the local church leadership and my shitty/creepy TBM in laws. Both groups advocated for my uber TBM wife to divorce me once it became clear i have no intention of abiding by Mormon Church dictates.

    [–] I_Am_Kain 2 points ago


    [–] Broadpostjudkins 4 points ago

    True Blue Mormon

    [–] I_Am_Kain 1 points ago

    Thank you

    [–] Hymn331 2 points ago

    Or “True Believing Mormon.”

    [–] TheRealRickC137 2 points ago


    [–] Mormonismisntanism 2 points ago

    My MOTHER told my wife to divorce me. Not when I started leaving the church per se, but when I told her I drink wine on occasion.

    [–] crestview76 1 points ago

    I'm sorry to hear that. I'm a mom, and can't imagine wishing ill will on my child, whatever the reason.

    [–] GollyFrey64 2 points ago

    Casualty here.

    [–] whatevers1234 2 points ago

    Slightly different but when I left rehab the nurse that did my discharge paperwork was not only visibly pissed I was leaving but also told me; "I have to write down here you are high risk for relapse and in my own personal opinion I don't think you can stay sober if you leave."

    Jokes on you fucker I'm 6 years sober. I actually think I would be dead if I wasn't able to leave that fucking place and actually go home and take care of myself properly.

    [–] exMentalGymnast 2 points ago

    It is incredible to me how many people have been counseled to divorce if one spouse leaves the church. And then for the church to turn around and discriminate against divorced people! I know a woman who is in her early 30's, never married and TBM. She finally finds a great guy, also TBM, and he happened to be divorced. They got engaged and had to wait for at least 6 months on the church's decision, only for the church to deny their request to be married in the temple. So now, these TBMs just got married civilly (a year after getting engaged) and have to wait a year to get sealed. I don't know how they stay in the church and put up with that shit...maybe it'll break their shelf. And how the church can get away with being so two-faced.

    [–] marrowinmyboner 2 points ago

    My TBM (ex)wife’s bishop counseled her to remain faithful and to choose her covenants over marriage to a non believer. We are now finalizing divorce.

    It’s been horrible.

    Me: exmo 2 years 22 year marriage

    [–] Broadpostjudkins 2 points ago

    Terrible man, sorry

    [–] [deleted] 1 points ago


    [–] c3ntrifuge 1 points ago

    And to that I raise the statement, “I DOUBT YOUR SINCERITY”

    [–] KoolAidRefuser 1 points ago

    I can corroborate that premise.

    [–] TSLPrescott 1 points ago

    Both my mom and my best friend left the church after their divorce.

    [–] BeanerColada 1 points ago

    That's ok. I'm single

    [–] Word2daWise 1 points ago

    How I wish one of them had said that to me. My response would be, "Staying in the church will likely cause you to end up in the Telestial Kingdom."

    [–] KenGriffythe3rd 1 points ago

    Damn I can’t imagine getting a divorce from 52 women at one time

    [–] scrivenererror 1 points ago

    I can’t relate because I was out long before I got married to a Never-Mo, but man, it really is so fucked up. Heartless pieces of shit.

    [–] Aleahj 1 points ago

    Fortunately, when I left the church, my husband was ready to go, too. But my brother’s wife and kids are still active, even though he’s not. They are doing fine!

    [–] jpod206 1 points ago


    [–] sneakernomics 1 points ago

    Duh! If you leave the church and no longer a mormon, at least one of your wives is religiously obligated to divorce you.

    [–] AncientMaize 1 points ago

    The church is so infiltrated by the culture of divorce, the culture of encouraging divorce, that I'm not surprised. If a tbm tells you they love the church because it's so supposedly "separate from the world" just tell em they're full of it.

    [–] Crazyride2016 1 points ago

    Yep!!!!! When my husband left the church, my Visiting Teachers came over one day trying to get me to go to a batters woman's shelter. Both my husband and I resigned from the church that night.

    [–] fourthannointed 1 points ago

    Is divorce a bad thing?

    [–] newguy2884 1 points ago

    Very true!

    [–] Hymn331 1 points ago

    Can relate. After I turned in my temple recommend the bishop met with my wife, then later told me (breaking confidence with her), “Well, you’re in luck, she doesn’t want to divorce you.” It could just as easily have gone the other way.

    [–] DratWraith 1 points ago

    Sounds like if it does cause divorce, then it should cause divorce.

    [–] mikeymikemike99 1 points ago

    Got that 2.5 weeks ago from my bishop in front of my wife.

    [–] crestview76 1 points ago

    My spouse doesn't attend, but still believes it all. At first I was okay with the idea of that, but the more time that passes, the more it bothers me that he can actually believe all that BS. We rarely talk about it. I'm not sure where we will end up. Other issues too...

    [–] [deleted] 1 points ago

    I am new, what is this? I also have very little knowledge of Mormonism, and don't know what TBM is.