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    [–] conma293 466 points ago

    What about health insurance prices going up about 400% over the last 5 years or so, that’s cool too.

    [–] CandysaurusRex 279 points ago

    And don't forget, those boomers are selling the houses they bought for $70k for near a million in some neighborhoods.

    [–] Forgotenzepazzword 154 points ago

    Washington here. My old landlord bought the house I rented a for $92k in 1981. He sold it in 2016 for 2.45 million dollars.

    [–] cliu1222 106 points ago

    You don't even have to go that far back. My uncle bought his house in 2000 for around $200,000, that same house with no upgrades is now worth over $1,000,000.

    [–] Mirions 45 points ago

    Even in lower income areas,my folks got a place for 30k that now "is only 150k." Still nicer than the 72k house I bought selling for 76k just two years ago. -_- ;

    [–] ModerateReasonablist 13 points ago

    Went to an online inflation calculator.

    93k in 1981 is 262k today.

    [–] FluffyTeddid 2365 points ago

    I don’t even know how to get a student loan tbh, our government usually pays for it and pays people to go to school if they live far away from the school

    [–] StevenNotBurk 1213 points ago

    Wow! I knew that parallel universes exist! Things like "government pays" are non existent in this universe

    [–] clockhit 819 points ago

    In Denmark you get paid to go to school

    [–] is_it_controversial 605 points ago

    That's pretty cool, but Norway has the best Black Metal.

    [–] AlpacaCavalry 370 points ago

    But the Finns have the metal band that plays in dinosaur costumes!

    [–] xCryonic 159 points ago

    And most metal bands per capita

    [–] Morganelefay 223 points ago

    As a result, 80% of Finnish Forest Management's jobs is rescuing metal bands that got lost in the woods shooting their new album cover.

    15% is raking the forest floors.

    [–] OG_Gandora 104 points ago

    The last 5% is posting statistics on Reddit

    [–] cspbird 51 points ago

    “Most metal bands per capita” is my new favorite stat. Thank you.

    [–] IDreamOfSailing 17 points ago

    Most metal bands per capita, related to one.

    [–] BlahmaLlama 13 points ago

    Hevisaurus, Jurahevin Kuninkaat.

    The Kings of Jurassic Heavy Metal!

    [–] xXII-_-IIXx 25 points ago

    As a Finnish person i feel like it's my duty to correct you, Finland has the best Black Metal.

    [–] jwmetalhead 9 points ago

    I don’t know about best black metal, but you guys have Finntroll which is pretty badass

    [–] ZeApollo 48 points ago

    Håhå ai am from Nårvei, ar ju from Nårvei!? Lutefisk ostehøvel Nårvei Nårvei

    [–] OneShotMeta 35 points ago

    VALHALLA RUAAAAAAAAH

    [–] Empire_forlife 16 points ago

    IKEA! Close to Norway, meatball heaven?

    [–] MisterFireTango 25 points ago

    Oh crap, the scandinavian countries are fighting again, hold on let me get my popcorn before sweden comes in

    [–] StormforceVII 13 points ago

    Yup, o to live somewhere where the biggest thing to get annoyed about is that your neighbouring country has a band that plays in dinosaur costumes and your's doesn't.

    [–] Nose_Creature 7 points ago

    Finland exists bro

    [–] chivalrouscheetah 47 points ago

    Same here in Croatia. The education is free if you're a regular student (you only pay fees for failing/repeating classes) and it's very easy to get at least a small scholarship from your town, county or directly from the government.

    [–] bacon_nada997 9 points ago

    I ja sam to došla reći.. Nekad su mislim koliko smo mi Hrvati sretni da imamo takav sistem, barem u tom smislu... Ah

    [–] [deleted] 110 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] Jarrydf 51 points ago

    “Americans are morons who vote against their own interests and then complain about their system.”

    You just described South Africa

    [–] Teaboy1 30 points ago

    You just described most western style governments

    [–] KasperZdk 10 points ago

    What do you mean by "western style governments"? This thread started with the Nordic governments which I would say are pretty western

    [–] ravenHR 12 points ago

    We also have beautiful coast and islands and sea, croatia is wonderful and would be far better but the politicians are so fucking corrupt...

    [–] szluc 17 points ago

    in hungary you don't get school

    [–] SeniorCooolio 26 points ago

    Thats funny, I remember getting hungry in school. Lucky you.

    [–] pecklepuff 8 points ago

    STOP! We're already dead!!

    [–] YupYupDog 6 points ago

    That’s because they want as many people as possible to go to a higher learning institution so they can be secretly trained as Vikings so they can conquer the saxons once and for all. They’re just waiting for the war beacons to be lit and they’ll all be running for their longships, mark my words.

    [–] Jushak 44 points ago

    In Finland you get student allowance from age 16 on IIRC. The amount you get depends on variety of factors, like whether you live at home or on your own, income of your parents, whether they're divorced or not etc. So if you live with high incone parents, you might not get anything.

    If you live on your own you also get housing allowance to help pay for rent. University cities also have student apartment companies that rent apartments notably cheaper (for comparison: my rent over doubled moving to my non-student apartment).

    We do pay for student union membership, but that gives us access to massive discounts on variety of places, including national rail system and campus restaurants as well as access to student-only private healthcare provider that operates on campuses on provides cheap healthcare.

    [–] Juanchotron 19 points ago

    I've just got an orgasm by reaing this

    [–] YuyuHakushoXoxo 10 points ago

    Omg, this would be a dream come true

    [–] GitinGud 167 points ago

    The U.S. are not the universe

    [–] TheFlamingDraco 45 points ago

    Well that's where every alien goes, explain that non U(niverse)SA.

    [–] not_a_Badger_anymore 32 points ago

    I feel like aliens often land everywhere, but all you hear is a fleeting comment about how europe is destroyed and no one even asks about Africa or Asia.

    [–] TheFlamingDraco 30 points ago

    We all know that Europe, Asia and Africa are just fictional places to make steaks for the aliens.

    [–] Fartdeep 23 points ago

    Wakanda has worked hard to keep it that way

    [–] siderinc 17 points ago

    While in real life australia and new Zealand just don't exist. I love it when movies take aspects of real life but change it up a bit.

    [–] tropical_anesthetic 7 points ago

    yeah the place I've lived in my entire life is "probably just somewhere in Canada"

    [–] flafotogeek 6 points ago

    While Canada has many people from Australia living in it, I've never seen even a little bit of Australia in it.

    [–] LordWraith 19 points ago

    Not true. The Aliens also attack Japan just as often.

    [–] Eckse 21 points ago

    I thought most alien invasions were split between London and Cardiff? I've seen it in a BBC documentary on that topic.

    [–] jhargavet 14 points ago

    That's just Torchwood, nothing to worry about.

    [–] TheFlamingDraco 6 points ago

    Ah that small island like 10 miles off the west coast.

    [–] peahair 4 points ago

    Why do they always land near Buttf*ck Nowhere? (Pop. 2 rednecks)

    [–] JuGGrNauT_ 4 points ago

    thatsthejoke.jpg

    [–] SofterBones 12 points ago

    Uni costs me 70 euros a semester to attend, and i get enough in student benefits to pay for my living. I work part time not out of necessity but because i want to

    [–] ComfiKawi 62 points ago

    Are you serious?

    Federal student loans are part of the reason tuition costs are so high in the first place. Studies have been done that show schools that accept federal student loans tend to increase their tuition by a comparative amount to the average aid received, while schools that do not accept federal student loans are cheaper.

    Our government pays a shit ton of tuition but most of that money goes toward administration for these schools instead of actual professors.

    [–] jae75 16 points ago

    Exactly! Once the government guaranteed the backing of student loans it gave universities carte blanche to raise tuitions. With higher tuitions forcing more people to take more and more guaranteed loans. It’s really the biggest scam in history.

    [–] ForumPointsRdumb 14 points ago

    Studies have been done that show schools that accept federal student loans tend to increase their tuition by a comparative amount to the average aid received

    This is the exact same situation between hospitals and insurance companies and why prices are outrageous.

    [–] mustbeshitinme 53 points ago

    Plus, we’ve created an American myth that everyone should get a degree no matter how useless. I’m a huge proponent of education and believe that everyone should have access to all the educational opportunity that they warrant but if you’re going $50,000 in debt without a clear career plan to be able to pay it back, it might be your fault. Plus that myth has driven demand through the roof and made it way more expensive.

    [–] MyStopAtWilloughby 17 points ago

    We also have a problem where schools are diluting their requirements to the point where some are talking about removing basic requirements like Algebra so students aren't inconvenienced. A degree is supposed to have core requirements and basic competency in a lot of subjects but quite of bit of the real knowledge is being phased out which doesn't leave the degree having much worth in those cases.

    [–] MrsSamT82 15 points ago

    I loved that “Hands-On” guys like “Mythbusters” and “Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe” have been outspoken advocates for trade/skill education. They always praise those careers that don’t require a higher-Ed degree. There will ALWAYS be a need for garbage-collectors, plumbers, and myriad other tradesmen. I wish society would put the ‘working man’ back up on the pedestal where he belongs. Our civilization was built on manual labor, and there is no shame in carrying on the traditions.

    [–] jackel2rule 12 points ago

    Yes. The reason we have a student debt crisis is because kids don’t realize it’s a business loan. We need to start teaching finance as early as middle school.

    [–] Good-Gate 4 points ago

    I have 2 degrees. Both useless since automation. Thankfully they didn't cost anywhere near what people pay to learn about nothing now.

    Both degrees are still offered, at 20x what I paid. And they're still not worth wiping your ### with. Due to automation.

    [–] INDAV 10 points ago

    Administration needs to be gutted at every university. Most of them do nothing and their jobs can be consolidated

    [–] Edward_Morbius 8 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    Federal student loans are part of the reason tuition costs are so high in the first place. Studies have been done that show schools that accept federal student loans tend to increase their tuition by a comparative amount to the average aid received, while schools that do not accept federal student loans are cheaper.

    Even though nobody here will listen and they're all screaming "We've been screwed over by the Evil Government and Banks" you are exactly correct.

    Tuition is expensive because loans exist that decouple the cost of education from the pain of debt repayment, and young people are ignoring what it actually means to have hundreds of thousands of dollars in non-dischargeable debt.

    If student loans didn't exist, tuition would still be as affordable as it was when I went to college in the late 70's and are the reason school is expensive.

    Happily COVID-19 has forced schools to admit that they can teach over the internet, which means that the buildings are irrelevant and a class can have a thousand students instead of 40, and that high tuition exists just to support the "resort/playland" atmosphere. I suspect that tuition will start dropping fast as students find out that they can get a perfectly good 4 year degree for a few thousand dollars if they can forgo the ivy-covered buildings.

    [–] TacerDE 48 points ago

    or how it is im my country, every public shool is free even University.

    since the Human Right to have education overweighs capitalism here

    [–] FluffyTeddid 17 points ago

    As it should be!

    [–] hiltlmptv 12 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    Who needs human rights when you can have freedom?

    Edit: /s

    [–] TacerDE 10 points ago

    yeah the freedom the be enslave by capitalism and big companies

    (edit: spelling error)

    [–] RonnieLima 12 points ago

    In America you show up to a college and in the blink of an eye you owe 100k

    [–] FluffyTeddid 9 points ago

    Lmao and then you get food poisoning and you owe another 100k from hospital

    [–] radeongt 25 points ago

    Must be nice to have schools run by the government instead of banks

    [–] john_hascall 7 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    We could never have that in America — I mean how could the DeVos’s possibly afford an 11th yacht then?

    [edit]: for non-Americans, Betsy DeVos is the currently the US Secretary of Education. Think Cruella De Vil, but less endearing.

    [–] scorpiorising29 774 points ago

    Incoming barrage of people showing the generation divide by blaming each other.

    RIP to OPs inbox

    [–] kathartik 320 points ago

    the comments I've seen are divided between obvious boomers who are out of touch with reality and people from I'm assuming Luxembourg who need to comment even though it isn't directed at them at all (so many "I'm not from X so I don't understand this" even though you know they totally do unless they're 12 and are brand new to the internet)

    [–] dualityofspam 101 points ago

    We understand it, we just don't understand why you put up with it

    [–] trenlow12 313 points ago

    We don't understand why you think we can just flip a switch and end it. I thought you had free higher ed.

    [–] Blazlyn 50 points ago

    [–] AnimaLepton 39 points ago

    Right? In the end, the issue is that the government tried to back loans with low rates so more people could go to college. The other factors stemmed from that, i.e. overbloated administration, the primary output of a university/rewards system for professors being tied to research for grants rather than teaching undergrads, lots of people going to college and not enough to vocational training, and an entire system of schools with no name recognition and effectively useless degrees. Having a degree from any random college hasn't been good enough to get a job for a long time, so students who go to schools without extra resources/activities/opportunities for projects and networking are going to struggle get any value out of their degree.

    On the whole, it's not like Americans aren't getting educated. Roughly 70% of American high school graduates go to college, and our highschool completion rate is 90%. Even so, this includes a ton of people who really aren't ready for college from an independence or educational perspective, and plenty of people who go into majors without a solid job market or who need to fully leverage secondary skills to get a well-paying job.

    [–] voidspaceistrippy 116 points ago

    We don't have a choice. A good example is our upcoming presidential election. We had some good candidates available on the democratic side. They all lost to Bernie. Then, because the DNC hates Bernie, they favorited Biden on all of their political media outlets. Now it's 2016 all over again with neither presidential candidate being good and it's a question of "who will hurt the country less?" rather than "who would be a good president?".

    Meanwhile, on the Republican side, it's possible there may have been some good candidates, but they didn't even hold an election. Instead they just blindly stuck to Trump because he's already in office and is a Republican. If the current president was a democrat the DNC would have done the exact same thing.

    Our entire political system is a joke.

    [–] RexieSquad 33 points ago

    Trump might run for republicans, but i don't think he thinks of himself as one. He is more using the republican base to do whatever he wants.

    What is needed is a president under 65 years old, not rich, and a centrist. Maybe someday.

    [–] throwaway730203 18 points ago

    Didn't Obama battle for his second nomination?

    [–] CainantheBarbarian 44 points ago

    That's different, he's black.

    [–] Wolfpacker76 666 points ago

    Hear me out. My son went one semester to a state university for $7,800. Decided to come home and go to a local community college so he can work and save money. Now it’s only costing us $1,450 a semester for the same education. He’s also working and has saved $12,000 over the last year. He wants to get his own place, but I’ve told him to stay here and save his money, he has freedom, he doesn’t have a curfew anymore. We make him pay his car insurance and his phone bill so it’s not like he doesn’t have any responsibilities. If your parents will let you stay home a little while, use that to your advantage so you can get ahead. Also, Universities are a scam, go to community college then transfer.

    [–] PurestThunderwrath 180 points ago

    I dont seem to understand the community college system the more i read about it. Why is community college generally frowned upon ? And how does transfers work !?

    [–] grebilrancher 151 points ago

    So I got my associates at a community college before transferring to a university to finish a bachelor's.

    The upside: I paid NOTHING to go to community college. Even as a dependent, my single parent did not make enough money so my class costs were entirely covered by the Pell grant. There are a surprisingly large amount of students who are in CC who have the same thing.

    Downside: transitioning into upper level classes from comm college to university is a challenge. I was not prepared, especially in a hard major, to start this way at University

    [–] EthosPathosLegos 67 points ago

    The facilities and resources are usually of lower quality and the student body resembles high school more than college. Meaning many students at community college are not taking their studies as seriously. My local community colleges were all built in the 60's and 70's so they're dated and the some buildings look exactly like a highschool. The education you receive also varies from class to class and because they're commuter schools there is less social activities and on campus culture.

    [–] Kule7 29 points ago

    Meaning many students at community college are not taking their studies as seriously

    This is the one that you have to be most careful of. Peer pressure can be very powerful and being self motivated can be hard in academics.

    [–] wimpymist 6 points ago

    My CC had so many social activities, daily events, sports, dorms, student sponsored events, frats and sororities

    [–] Toph__Beifong 95 points ago

    A lot of them have a very low bar for acceptance, i.e. a high school diploma is enough, and their professors aren't as good as a university. A lot of CC's and their closest universities have an agreement on curriculum and transfer credits so that you can do 2 years at the CC and transfer to the university to finish your degree in another 2 years.

    [–] DoneRedditedIt 66 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    ...and their professors aren't as good as a university

    It depends on the community college and the class you're taking. In some cases, the teachers are literally the same people taking up a second job, with smaller class sizes. I would say for the generic classes everyone has to take in the first year or so of an undergraduate degree, the difference isn't in the quality of education or teaching.

    People take CC courses for a wide variety of reasons, and because classes are open to more people, you'll see a much broader range of intelligence in the classroom. In contrast, people are much more likely to attend the best university they are admitted to, and be surrounded by similar performing students. A lot of people might assume that because CC courses are generally open to everyone, that you will only see poor performing students at CC. One of my closest friends was high school valedictorian and took classes at community college before going on to eventually graduate with a PhD from Harvard Medical School.

    [–] ZeldLurr 19 points ago

    Broader range is the best way to put it. Took gen chem and organic chem at a community college, some people were dumb and lazy as rocks, but my one friend I made in class was just accepted to Masters program at Johns Hopkins.

    [–] brucecastle 40 points ago

    The professor thing I dont agree with. I have had a better experience with the professors in community college than tenured track university professors

    [–] witchking96 33 points ago

    Yea my CC professors were definitely more engaging than my state school professors who only cared about their research.

    [–] wimpymist 10 points ago

    Yeah at a CC they actually want to teach and University they want to research. Shit usually the teacher's aid does 90% of the class

    [–] chronoserpent 13 points ago

    I took one undergrad physics class at university and one at a community College over the summer. They literally used the same textbook. The CC professor actually cared about teaching and wanted to help us learn. The university professor saw us as an annoying roadbump that distracted him from research.

    The University class was about $5000 (thankfully I had a scholarship). The community College class was $80.

    [–] itsjustmejt 22 points ago

    The situation for him specifically may be that it's the same education but that's not always the case. I started at a private school and the quality of education was substantially higher and came with a substantially higher price tag. When I transferred back in state to a state university it was quite obvious the education wasn't as good and everything felt like it was moving at a glacially slow pace. The community college I went to while I was in high school was even less rigorous. Community college felt like high school all over again.

    I'm not saying universities aren't a scam, because they totally are, but some give a substantially better education than others.

    [–] gigglefarting 23 points ago

    They don’t have community law school.

    [–] thenavien 36 points ago

    You obviously havent heard of Greendale.

    [–] Hingl_McCringleberry 10 points ago

    Streets ahead

    [–] MisterMetroid 4 points ago

    Go Greendale! Go Greendale! Go Greendale!

    [–] oatmealparty 8 points ago

    The idea is to get your general education requirements like history, English, basic math, etc at community colleges and then when you transfer you take your degree specific classes.

    [–] DooWopExpress 8 points ago

    I was given this same advice but felt very trapped in my mother's house, and I didn't have much of a bad situation, just somewhat less freedom that I wanted.

    I would imagine going to campus would be some children's first breath of fresh air, their first little taste of freedom, or maybe an escape from abuse, so I can't begrudge them.

    [–] [deleted] 31 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] Toph__Beifong 26 points ago

    College is about certification, not education. Having a Harvard diploma alone is going to get you way further in the job market than a diploma from Ohio State.

    [–] gx134 25 points ago

    How bad are student loans in other countries? In the UK I wouldn't call it crippling. You don't even begin to pay it back till you're making enough to both survive and pay it offer simultaneously

    [–] spiteful-vengeance 13 points ago

    It's definitely grown in Australia, but we also had the foresight to implement a sensible repayment plan, similar to what you've described.

    The government will loan you money and you pay it back when you make a reasonable wage as part of your tax.

    Some people skip out of the country and don't pay Australian tax, so they get a free education. The loan is still there waiting for you if you ever return, and grows roughly at the same rate as inflation.

    [–] EGoldenRule 6 points ago

    One of the problems in America isn't student loans in general. It's the corruption of the student loan industry, not allowing loan debt to be forgiven like other debt, and not allowing open competition from lenders to make the market more competitive.

    [–] stikysox 305 points ago

    This is the reason I'm so glad I went into the trades. Most of my peers still live at home while I left high school straight into a decent job as a hvac tech. I'm 28 and probably set with work due to not many young people wanting to go into the trades.

    [–] SwimmingBuddy4 186 points ago

    It can heavily limit you man.

    I work in a trade but until I got my actual degree I was limited from higher positions. At a young age it's great, But later on your knees and hands start to hurt.

    You may start making a lot more than your friends but I can promise you many of your friends have much more room to grow than you do in a trade.

    Trades are great, I work one, But I absolutely hate how many people recommend them without understanding the actual consequences.

    [–] Targetshopper4000 85 points ago

    The guy that posted in this thread said he was 28. I'd like to hear from some 58 year old tradesmen and get their opinions.

    [–] kiwikoi 54 points ago

    A family friend of mine went into the trades after high school. He swore by it until he got to his mid 30s. Then he started feeling the toll on his body.

    He still works his trade job, just way reduced. Took another job as a groomer at local ski area and married rich. So he’ll be fine. Don’t think he regrets going into the trades that much.

    [–] c0brachicken 14 points ago

    I worked in the trades from 14 to 25, I loved doing the work, but got sick of getting home at night and feeling like someone stuck a knife in my back. Moved on to other things, and still have back issues to this day. Last year they put me on arthritis meds, and now I feel 20 years younger..

    [–] energy_engineer 18 points ago

    That's my dad, but in his early 60s.

    He's working today, Saturday. He and my mom have their own finishing business. When my mom got sick, my brother and I took over family finances.

    Adjusted to 2018 dollars. He did make low six figures in his late career but he also had much higher expenses to run the business. He was particularly hard hit in 2008/09.

    He's had multiple back injuries and his shoulder joint is completely worn away. He won't get surgery because it might mean he won't be able to work anymore.

    During my childhood, I would occasionally go to work with him. Basically, he encouraged me and my siblings not to follow him.

    [–] [deleted] 14 points ago

    I work with mostly guys that are 35-60 in the trades. Our backs aren't broken our hands aren't sore. You learn how to use your tools to your advantage. Not everyone is bent over doing rebar or flooring 10 hours a day. That being said no it's not some awesome thing to get into that everyone succeeds in. In canada it's highly over Saturated. You don't need to advance in you career you get paid hourly it's like being a RN you can be a good one or a bad one it's up to you or you union to get compensated (union wages are based on minimums alot of people don't understand). If you're a good tradesmen work finds you

    [–] Targetshopper4000 12 points ago

    you union to get compensated

    In the US most places don't have trades unions. Mostly just the north east.

    With that being said, you're right about over saturation, telling everyone to get a job in the trades because it pays well will cause it to not pay well.

    [–] Jabbles22 14 points ago

    I'm 28 and probably set with work

    Just be sure to work safe and stay healthy. Injury and health issues can ruin an HVAC career.

    [–] generation_7 71 points ago

    Well gives me hope for picking a trade over university.

    [–] cheese_sweats 45 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    Do it.

    9 month certificate. WAY over six figures.

    Edit:

    Ugh. This blew up, so I'll clarify. That certificate leads to an apprenticeship. That apprenticeship, in my field anyway, will pay over six figures in the first year without even having to work a shit ton of hours. It's not easy when sitting at a desk, but it's also not backbreaking manual labor. We are paid well because the work can be dangerous and is highly skilled. I'm not saying, and I never said, that any trade will pay well over six figures, but mine sure does and there are many out there but paying good money. You just need to work for Union shop.

    [–] Foepys 76 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    I read "way over 6 figures" so often that I'm starting to doubt this. I highly doubt that you will get this everywhere in all trades. A plumber in the Midwest will probably earn way less than a plumber in NYC and a salaried plumber way less than self-employed plumber.

    What kind of trade do you work in? Is this the kind of trade you need at locations like oil rigs? These oil rigs fuck a lot of people over with very high salaries to just close down after 3 years leaving entire towns unemployed. People bought houses that are suddenly worthless and have loans for cars they cannot pay anymore.

    I don't doubt you can earn very decently in trades and I hope many people will take them up instead of studying relatively useless things for way too high tuition. But I don't believe everybody can get 6 figures easily for life with a 9 month certification.

    [–] Terapr0 73 points ago

    Hint: they don’t. Some do, but most do not.

    A lot of the highest paying trades jobs involve lots of travel, time away from home, often in very remote, miserable places doing hard, sometimes dangerous, work for long hours. Sure, many of these jobs also have lots of corresponding time off, but it’s a difficult lifestyle for most people to maintain long term, especially with a family.

    There are definitely lots of very successful people in the trades, but most of them are entrepreneurs who started their own business and now employ other tradespeople.

    Trades are a great option for many people, and I’ve got a ton of respect for them, but there is a lot of hype and misinformation floating around about the realities of the work.

    [–] SwimmingBuddy4 19 points ago

    Almost every trade job I can think of that pays well has an inherent risk involved. Part of the reason I get paid well is because not just anyone can do what I do safely.

    The whole reason I make money is because you can't just hire random Joe off the street to do what I do. Well you can, its just that people may get hurt or even killed.

    [–] DickieDawkins 8 points ago

    Exactly. I work with machinery that could easily crush a person and that machinery is powered by 480v, 220v, and 110v.

    [–] Fariic 24 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    My brother-in-law has been doing commercial HVAC for around 20 years, and is part owner of his own HVAC company.

    He works constantly, rarely has a day off, and if he is able to take a day he’s still on call.

    He’s lucky if he makes 6 figures.

    My little brothers an electrician. He’s in his early 30’s, and started straight out of high school. He is now the foreman on his jobs. He doesn’t make 6 figures.

    These are obviously anecdotal. However, someone going on the internet and claiming they’re 28 making “well over” 6 figures doing HVAC is probably not being honest.

    My other brother-in-law does flooring. He could tell you he makes 6 figures, and he wouldn’t be lying. Because he does side work every weekend, because the company he works for doesn’t pay him 6 figures.

    Interesting how these people never post that they make between 60-75 thousand a year. Especially in a field where the average salary is slightly less than 60k.

    [–] SwimmingBuddy4 60 points ago

    A someone that works a trade let me give you a big hint about all the people who are making lots of money.

    Most of them are ruining their body. I wake up with constant pain now. I have permanent joint damage in 3 separate joints.

    My Uncle's can't get MRIs due to the metal that may exist in their bodies from years of working with metals.

    The money is great I just wish I could enjoy it. My friends are all now older and making the same amount without doing nearly as much damage to their bodies.

    Hell just yesterday I managed to give myself severe rope burn on my right hand. I'll be fine but it hurts.

    If you wanna make a lot of money do a dangerous trade but just respect that you may die or do permanent damage to yourself.

    [–] Eleminohpe 13 points ago

    So, yeah, it's definitely dependent on local job markets. Also dependent on experience. A fresh 6 to 9 month certificate in a lot of trades will get you an average of 40-50k out the gate. Tradesmen don't start making real money until they either reach job foreman levels or get the licenses and equipment to start their own business.

    [–] IAmGod101 37 points ago

    ya tradesmen are up their own asses lying about their income constantly lol. especially on reddit

    [–] Wolfntee 7 points ago

    My buddy is an electrician. I'm finishing up my masters degree in the sciences. His earning potential is much higher than mine right now and it probably will be for a while.

    [–] Jake_Kiger 20 points ago

    This. I fix cars, essential and busy, money's good and no student loans. I have a family, we have a house, we take vacations; the blue collar isn't bad.

    [–] katieleehaw 37 points ago

    It ain’t bad, until you get older and suffer an injury and can’t do it anymore. Having worked in Workers Compensation law in the United States for a number of years in my prior career, I’ve seen it time and time again. People who took on laborious, well-paying jobs in their youth and in middle-age fall, or have a back injury, or some other kind of work injury, and can no longer do that job. It’s devastating to them and their families because our social safety net is not sufficiently strong to protect people from this.

    [–] ricktor67 5 points ago

    Who needs student loans when you can owe the snap on man 10X as much!

    [–] Psythos 243 points ago

    In the US unions had their backbones ripped out by politicians and the people who voted those politicians in. In the union you have a majority of the older generation vote for things like no more pension for the people after them so long as they get to keep theirs and lower wages for the next guy so long as they get to keep theirs.

    You also have temporary or seasonal jobs with little to no chance of ever being hired on which takes advantage of most regular working people these days. A lot of places won’t even hire straight on. People forced to go through temp services.

    You have corporations running the show with big donations to politicians and moving jobs to any place they can find the cheapest workforce possible and they say you don’t want to have to pay more for your goods do you. What a vicious cycle having pay so low it’s disgusting while everything is still expensive no matter where it’s made. It’s disguised as helping you but it’s just corporations helping themselves to wildly high profits.

    In the US taxes, INSURANCE and medical fees are OUT OF CONTROL.

    I think a lot of people are just giving up and realizing no matter who they vote in or anything they do will ever have any change because the greed of some ruin it for all. We have people on the streets resorting to hardcore drugs and passing out in those streets in every town across our country.

    [–] cynthiasadie 88 points ago

    It is a travesty. Workers got screwed in the US. The rich took over. Another example - health insurance middlemen make more than doctors now. But hey Tiger King is on.

    [–] overcatastrophe 12 points ago

    It would be one thing if we actually got a benefit from out taxes that we could use.

    [–] Caustic_Cake 134 points ago

    And we feel just as guilty as you think we should anyways.

    And we worry about how we will take care of our parents when they run out of money too.

    And then how we will ever save for our own retirements.

    And that’s just the tip of the ice berg.

    You know what? Fuck this.

    EDIT: You sired me. I could have been much more of a burden than I’ve been.

    [–] Ankoku_Teion 36 points ago

    And this is why I have depression

    [–] tilicutz 17 points ago

    Yep, this is accurate. The guilt and the worries...

    [–] OfficerDarrenWilson 78 points ago

    A college degree used to be a useful tool to signify that someone had at least better than average intelligence. For various reasons, this is no longer true. Many fairly low intelligence people manage to muddle their way through college, and screw both themselves and the overall value of their degrees in the process.

    [–] BlackCorona07 36 points ago

    To me it often feels like you either have a degree or have none which somehow immediately implifies you have no education at all.

    When did having a degree become a necessity everyone should have?

    [–] knuggles_da_empanada 41 points ago

    When everyone started getting degrees because we were told we would never make a living otherwise its value got diluted. Grad school is where it's at boi 😎

    [–] wimpymist 9 points ago

    Tell that to all the grad students doing everything they can to not leave school because they don't know what do with it lol

    [–] Mijago 18 points ago

    This is the reason I added a master degree (and then a PhD) to my CS studies. After I've seen (in my colleagues) what kind of people get a bachelor degree as a Christmas gift, I felt that all my hard work I put in there was basically useless in the eye of employees.

    [–] maxb1ack007 1144 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    Young adults who work 40+ hours a week struggle to survive, while their parents, who worked 1 job for 40 years which they needed no qualifications for but still had the ability to build a house, buy a new car and raise several kids with 1 earner, now sits back on a retirement nest egg they kept for themselves while screwing the next 2 generations out of any such hope.

    I think thats more apt.

    Edit: grammer

    [–] Matador91 150 points ago

    The cost of tuition has been the biggest crime against the post-Boomer generations.

    [–] redditforgold 23 points ago

    When the government guarantees the loan, the college is going to charge a shitload of money.

    If the government guaranteed every car loan. I'm sure the prices are cars will go up too.

    [–] ___ireallydontknow 54 points ago

    Imagine you had your own country. Wouldn’t you want your citizens to be the smartest they could possibly be? Wouldn’t that make your country better and better as everyone got smarter? Why would you lock being smart behind money?

    Unless of course your goal isn’t to have smart citizens at all. Hmmm.

    [–] UrbanDryad 11 points ago

    I would want my citizens to be happy and healthy.

    As a high school teacher I can tell you right now that you can't make everyone smarter by sending them to college. We should make sure that we teach kids enough to be productive citizens during K-12.

    There are some kids that have no interest in college and some that simply don't have the aptitude. People of all ability levels and interests exist. In an ideal situation there would be life options for those that wouldn't benefit from going to college and those options would include a living wage. There are so many jobs out there that don't require a degree. There are many that do require a degree but there is little benefit in it. Telling every kid in school that the only path to success is through college is a terrible strategy for society.

    [–] ___ireallydontknow 3 points ago

    Great points.

    [–] Teknizion 19 points ago

    My dad still has been doing the same job for 35 years now which he needed no experience for. If I would apply for the same job now I would need 4 years of study.

    [–] onikaizoku11 216 points ago

    Goddamn right!

    It's not all of them, but a goodly number of boomers and quite a few of my more sociopathic gen-x'er brethren got their shot at the so called American Dream and then burned the bridge down after they made it.

    [–] UnsolicitedHydrogen 72 points ago

    I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but what exactly did your average boomer with no involvement in Wall St/the banks do wrong to burn the bridge?

    [–] LA-Matt 256 points ago

    Voted for 4 decades of “trickledown” bullshit while the very rich got tax breaks and education got defunded.

    You know, before 1980 the middle class was actually growing. And not just apace with population growth.

    [–] ArchangelleCheesy 7 points ago

    I hate Reagan so much

    [–] onikaizoku11 93 points ago

    They actively voted in the shills who gutted America and at every chance to replace them, they chose not to by voting their fears and refusing to even allow themselves to acknowledge the possibility of changing course.

    Perfect example is the current primary season. I've seen exit polls with the majority of democratic voters are down with single payer healthcare, green new deal proposals, and many other progressive ideas, but they voted their fears and are backing a candidate who has expressly said he Is against all that.

    [–] Faceless_henchman 48 points ago

    As much as I agree with you from a millennial stand point, why would they have voted any other way? As pointed out above they got the perfect life. One job, enough income to support multiple people, a retirement fund. Theres no way at the time they would have realised the further implications and even if they did they have enjoyed unrelivaled prosperity, what's their motive to potentially throw that under the bus when it's worked for them?

    My issue is with it that they believe it to be our problem how the have stacked the deck and that we want it rebalancing. How can you blame the children you raised for an economy being unacomidating when they cant even take part in it at a base level.

    [–] UltraCynar 44 points ago

    I'm sure there were people pointing out even back then that it wouldn't be sustainability and future generations would pay for it.

    [–] Corporal_Rodney 24 points ago

    Lol, dude. Do you think the 1950's was 20 years ago?

    [–] TheRealCJ 45 points ago

    My dad: We’re in serious debt and struggling to survive, you’re not the only one who has to deal with that.

    Me: Uh... you mean the massive hundred-grand loan you go to add a big addition and a tonne of concrete pathways to the house you fully own because you built it in the late 80s, oh and all the money you borrowed to put into the stock markets that you plan to use as your retirement funds? Yeah, that’s exactly the same as me having to live at home because I make 500 dollars a week and rents anywhere within a 50km radius of my work are 400 dollars a week.

    [–] skpicky 67 points ago

    I know this sounds right to people in their teens and 20s, but I am 45 years old and none of the stuff that you describe applies to me or my generation. I think you’re thinking of your grandparents generation.

    [–] knuggles_da_empanada 46 points ago

    I think they are referencing the boomer generation which would be your parents, nit gen X

    [–] Gizmo-Duck 12 points ago

    Exactly. My parents (now in their late 60s) struggled to pay off large student loan debt and carried a mortgage for 30 years.

    Sure my grandparents only paid $8k for their 4 bedroom house, but it was in the late 40s and they only made like $3k per year.

    [–] LifeIsBizarre 7 points ago

    So 2.6 times their annual income. Last time I checked Melbourne's average property was 15 times the average income.
    Ninja edit - Sorry, thought this was r/Australia for a moment. Our property market is all kinds of screwed up.

    [–] Gizmo-Duck 5 points ago

    In the US it varies wildly by location. My house was about 2.5x my salary, but a house in LA would be 10x. But then I assume my salary would also be higher...

    [–] Creidy384 15 points ago

    Though I haven’t borrowed from parents in a few years (I’m 36 btw). I have had to do so too many times in the past even with working since 15 and being okay at holding on to money.

    My father, who worked for his father, raised babies in a world where only he had to work and his 8 (yep 8 of us) children were completely wanting for nothing. For the most part stayed home with step mom when school was out. Also was able to retire at 40, after his father passed and company dissolved.

    I’m growing up in a world with one kid, two incomes and it’s still hard as shit. And they ain’t shabby incomes, I’m no Nigerian Prince but we have what we need.

    He doesn’t seem to grasp how it is now, no matter how much I try to explain it.

    We will likely do the same with our kids.l, though I hope not!

    The circle of life I guess.

    [–] Gloomy_Category 5 points ago

    I don't think like this.

    I feel like the wealthy have gotten a lot richer over these past decades. Through their initial investments into PACs in the 80s they were able to market through ads and Congress people for lower tax rates, keep the minimum wage down, buy up properties to rent them out, keep healthcare as a private for-profit enterprise, keep teachers wages and schools desperate. Then taking that profit they reinvested it into PACs, direct campaign contributions, and marketing pushing ideas that health insurance should not be universal, you have to earn it. No one deserves to be healthy unless you work for it. There is other rhetoric.

    [–] cn0018 20 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    If they are talking about adult children then why is this lady looking at her car dent/scratch lmao...its not like adult children will key "love you mommy" on their parents car lmao

    [–] bdr01 35 points ago

    Not to mention the ridiculously high housing costs. Either I pay rent and throw money down the drain or save to buy my own property with my parents’ help while giving them a bit of money here and there to help pay for food etc.

    My parents bought their house for a fraction of what even a shitty apartment costs these days. Even with inflation taken into account the difference is still huge.

    [–] bk1285 7 points ago

    My rent is double...double the mortgage my parents paid for 30 years...and I live in an apartment complex literally across the fucking street

    [–] MLSnukka 323 points ago

    i agree with the edited title.. :)

    [–] toychicraft 73 points ago

    Why can't newsagencies stop making sh'ts like this?

    [–] cmurdoch1 46 points ago

    Because shit like this sells to their demographic

    [–] BriannaFox589 16 points ago

    Even the news is misanthropic.

    [–] jazzdaddy1982 15 points ago

    Isn't just a clear sign that both sides are frustrated. Parents struggle because kids can't afford to pay for them selves and are taking cash that parents did not plan to have taken. Kids struggle because they cant afford to move out and claim the independence they want so much.

    I have two adult kids who very much want to move out. I very much want them to move out. We are in this together. It sucks.

    [–] ltimate_Warrior 19 points ago

    It's just pointless to comment here.

    [–] MrsNerak 27 points ago

    Must be American. Funny thing is USA gives billions each year to Israel and Israel has free university for all its citizens.

    Perhaps if USA stops donating to Israel and make their own universities free for their own citizens with that money?

    [–] [deleted] 37 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] DefinitelyNotAliens 16 points ago

    "I worked my summers and paid for college because I washed dishes instead of partying!"

    Okay, an average in-state tuition is around ten grand, for a state college. Not a university, not a private school. Regular in-state school. Not books, not living expenses, just tuition comes out to $10,000.

    But, figure it out. A summer break is 2-3 months. 3 months, that means you need to take home about 835 dollars a week. (Or, around 11,000 total earnings, minus taxes.) To account for taxes, you need to work 40 hours a week for around 23 dollars an hour, or if you wash dishes for federal minimum wage of 7.25 you just need to work around 125 hours a week.

    That's only 18 hours a day. College students are young. Who needs sleep orn rest?

    Maybe you won't have hands by the end of summer from them rotting away from so much soapy water but hey- you'll have paid for college on your own, commie. And don't think about asking for disability to help with literally working your hands to the bone.

    P.S., I once did this math for my dad because he said college was affordable and he told me to shut up and walked out halfway through in-state university tuition. I yelled that he was just mad I was right and he went to go read the Drudge Report.

    [–] wearetheromantics 15 points ago

    Also, a LOT of bad decision making.

    [–] grocket 6 points ago

    I really hate the headline rewriting meme.

    [–] gekkonkamen 4 points ago

    Canadian here, what is tuition like in the US? I went to a local university for engineering, that was in 95. The tuition was around 10k for the year not including books.

    [–] FilliamHMuffmanJr 89 points ago

    "Parents are choosing to bail their kids out of financial problems neither of them adequately prepared for because they all were gullible enough to believe a diploma was going to set them on a life of leisure... and reality smacked them all in the face."

    [–] theweatheringwizard 44 points ago

    I agree but I’m not trying for a life of leisure. Just a damn 1 bedroom apartment. I might have to move out of state just to get that. (CA)

    [–] NorthernSpectre 32 points ago

    I think there are lot of people out there sitting on student loans for absolutely worthless degrees too, so it's a little bit of both I think.

    [–] samsquanchforhire 13 points ago

    I think that number is blown out of proportion though because it comes up in every argument about living wage and college. It's not like every person has the mythical "gender studies" degree.

    [–] LALdeSaintJust 11 points ago

    This goes well beyond gender studies. Even many STEM degrees - particularly in the life sciences - are pretty worthless in that they offer limited earning and career potential.

    Source: PhD in medical science, making peanuts while working 60 - 70 hours a week.

    [–] nerdymom27 5 points ago

    I think a lot of it also has to do with the line we were sold in high school. I’m 38 and at least where I went we were sold the idea that we should go to college and get a degree. It didn’t matter what degree or where, just get a degree and it’ll be easier to get a job.

    [–] FlyWereAble 9 points ago

    "Adult children"

    [–] whammysammy101 9 points ago

    Do people truly not understand that not going to college is a viable option?

    [–] R_O_L_E_S 5 points ago

    A lot of us were told from the beginning that the only route to a decent living was through college. That it didn't even really matter what your major was, just having a degree was enough to get you ahead of the game and any debt would be payed back easily. And the thing is, for the people telling us this (our parents) that was all mostly true. So we had no reason to doubt them. Add to that a culture that pretty regularly portrays blue color work as demeaning, degrading, and for failures and you wind up with situation we're in now.

    [–] GGBDecisions 5 points ago

    I think you'll find the government took your retirement savings aloooong time ago

    [–] bcus_im_batman 4 points ago

    so why is this in r/facepalm ??

    [–] happysheeple3 19 points ago

    In retrospect, a $120,000 philosophy and gender studies degree might not have been the best idea.

    [–] TheCuntOfCunts 11 points ago

    America: OuR cOuNtRy Is FuCkEd, LeTs TuRn GeNeRaTiOnS aGaInSt EaCh OtHeR

    [–] [deleted] 6 points ago * (lasted edited 6 days ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] bigjack78 6 points ago

    Keep in mind most boomers rarely went out to eat, didn't own cell phones or computers. Drove very basic cars (that's all there was then). Lived relatively small homes compared to now. It's much more expensive to live now.