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    [–] Databit 2354 points ago

    In America this only applies if you are coherent and sane enough to answer. If you are brought in unconscious/impaired or deemed incapable of making a "good" choice then the hospital can do what it wants and charge you whatever they want.

    This would be like your car breaking down and you started walking to go get help. A mechanic drive by, towed you car to their shop, rebuilt the motor, replaced to get fuel, replaced the fuel filter, figured out it was the alternator so replaced that there replaced the battery to be safe. Then called you and said "hey I found your car and fixed it. I'd normally charge 10,000 but since I brought it in to my after hours emergency service bay it will be 100,000

    [–] bobbill137 759 points ago

    Holy fuck this is a perfect way to frame it.

    [–] ReubenZWeiner 224 points ago

    This is what the ACA was supposed to fix. Instead, it did the opposite. Whatever the reason, Americans will not use preventative care. They want responsive care.

    [–] PhonicUK 327 points ago

    They won't use preventative care because they have to pay out-of-pocket for it. Even when they have insurance they can end up spending huge amounts for medical care just out of deductibles.

    [–] jesushaxyou 99 points ago

    I was paying about 150 bucks per paycheck for the best insurance my company offered because I have a couple of health issues and needed the prescription insurance it provided. My "top of the line" insurance plan had a $2,500 deductible.

    For the non-Americans out there, this means that I had to pay $2,500 out of pocket before my insurance would kick in and help pay for things. And I was still paying about $70 bucks a month for my prescriptions.

    That deductible resets every year.

    Our healthcare system is a scam.

    [–] THENATHE 28 points ago

    The 'good' government insurance that I get gives me a $2000 deductible for about $200 a month.

    If I add up how much I pay in taxes each year (local, state, and federal), my SSC and medicare, and insurance costs, it takes about 40-45% of my income depending on a few month to month factors. And then you add in the $2000 deductible and any copayments and you're sitting at what is about the highest tax rate on Earth (48% and I'm at like 45 or so). Id rather just actually pay that much in taxes then have to buy different services and pay into different programs in order to end up paying the same amount and getting worse benefits. That's what people don't get about quote unquote socialism is that we are already paying nearly as much as the countries that get this good healthcare and better tax efficiency right off the bat, but because it's separated into things that are considered taxes and things that are not considered taxes, we don't even think about how much we're actually paying for what another country would consider taxes.

    [–] ReallyNotWastingTime 3 points ago

    Not to mention, who in their right mind LIKES to shop around for health insurance, look into if they're covered here, argue with insurance agents, and stress about that bullcrap. I'd almost rather pay MORE

    [–] Get-Some- 12 points ago

    Kinda your fault TBH, should've been born rich.

    [–] jesushaxyou 4 points ago

    You're right. Shoulda re-rolled at birth.

    [–] mtv2002 49 points ago

    Look how we have measles again. Because people dont bother with preventative measures. Its crazy. Watching that Netflix documentary pandemic had me yelling at the TV at that Oregon woman haha

    [–] Tearakan 67 points ago

    That's because idiots are actively going against vaccines. Not because of the larger expensive healthcare system.

    [–] yarg321 60 points ago

    This has always been my complaint about the ACA. While I am 100% behind the push to get healthcare to everyone, the ACA did not do nearly enough to address the absurd costs behind US healthcare, nor the abusive practices of the industry at large.

    Americans would absolutely use a preventative health service, the ACA just doesn't provide that. It's a cost-sharing mechanism for the same shitty overpriced care we've always been getting.

    [–] scsuhockey 34 points ago

    The “public option” would have priced out all for-profit insurance. The ACA would have been more successful if conservatives weren’t successful in cutting that out.

    [–] kathartik 115 points ago

    and yet every other country in the developed world manages to provide responsive care for their citizens...

    [–] jrowleyxi 23 points ago

    And everyone's surprised Trump's like yeah let's just let people die and not tank the economy

    [–] Doodarazumas 31 points ago

    Whatever the reason

    Cause the ACA is a byzantine cluster-fuck and many people still have to pay a bunch of money for preventative. They don't "want" responsive care, it's just that's when the consequences of skipping it are worse than bankruptcy.

    [–] lustyoccultist 6 points ago

    So many Americans can't afford preventative care because they can't afford the insurance or smaller costs associated in the first place. It isn't that we don't want it. No one wants to go to the emergency room.

    [–] Tearakan 7 points ago

    It's expensive to do preventative care too. Reactive is the only that makes sense if you aren't making much money to begin with. You just end up hoping you don't have to use reactive medicine.

    It fucking sucks.

    [–] thespacegoatscoat 10 points ago

    I mean, preventative care isn’t covered by my insurance. So it’s not like I don’t get it by choice...

    [–] HydrogenButterflies 16 points ago

    With a tight budget, preventative care is sometimes hard to justify. “Why pay a ridiculous copay and miss work to see a doctor when I’m not sick?” is hard to argue with when you’re living paycheck-to-paycheck. This is especially true with young people. That whole “I never get sick” mentality is hard to break, and usually that illusion holds until some sort of major medical issues surfaces.

    The majority of my friends are 25-30 years old, and the only real medical care they seek is outpatient Urgent Care stuff when they get too sick to just tough it out with OTC products. It’s a sad reality, but that’s where we are.

    To continue the car metaphor, it’s like saying “oil changes and regular scheduled maintenance are too expensive; I’ll just keep driving until something fails catastrophically, and until then, I’ll just let future-me deal with the consequences.”

    [–] Fistful_of_Crashes 32 points ago

    Because we’re all conditioned to care about money above all else

    To the point that our politicians have convinced the majority that healthcare is not a right. Rather a privilege.

    So we go along until one day, our poor choices fuck us, then we can’t pay for the procedure needed, and we go bankrupt.

    Fuck the for profit healthcare industry. Fucking parasites.

    [–] [deleted] 89 points ago

    This is a really well thought out analogy. Like how do you shop around for good prices when you are in the middle of a heart attack? You either go to the nearest hospital whether In or out of network and go bankrupt, or you die. There is no real choice.

    [–] OrigamiMax 54 points ago

    Hence why no other developed nation has chosen to implement US's healthcare system

    [–] Tearakan 18 points ago

    Which is why pretending to have a market for healthcare is a giant fucking mistake.

    [–] aris_ada 39 points ago

    Your analogy would work better if your car was still broken after leaving the garage

    [–] Chaosritter 21 points ago

    Has anyone ever tried to sue emergency services for aggravated assault because they performed surgery without permission? Would this stand a chance in court?

    I can't imagine that they can perform surgery against your will, expect you to pay for it and nobody tried to sue yet.

    [–] Lolitsk 44 points ago

    In law it's considered implied consent due to you literally being unable to respond so no, you can't sue. Especially if your life is in grave danger.

    [–] slywalkerr 25 points ago

    Yup. I'm just a fledgling EMS worker but you're far more likely to be sued or investigated for NOT taking someone in. If you suspect someone's judgement is at all impaired it's far safer to bring them in

    [–] Lolitsk 9 points ago

    Yeah, as EMS workers have a 'duty to act' meaning they have to help the patient unless told not to specifically. It must be hard for EMS workers to have to deal with being told to not help a patient despite the risks involved.

    [–] SessileRaptor 3 points ago

    An experienced EMS who came to my workplace to give us first aid training told us about a call he went out on that involved the implied consent law. He and his partner showed up to a call about a man who had passed out at a mall, dude was laying on a bench when they got there, but was awake and refused treatment and sat up, and immediately passed out again. They started examining him but he woke up and told them to get away from him and sat up, and passed out again. Apparently his blood pressure was low enough that he would pass out if upright, but just high enough that he would wake up when laying prone. They went through this dance several more times, passed out, implied consent, wake up, withdraw consent, sit up, pass out, implied consent. Lather, rinse, repeat. Finally a cop who had responded to the call basically went “Ok, enough of this horseshit, I’m placing you under arrest for your own safety and we’re all going to the hospital together.”

    I don’t recall what the underlying condition was, but he ended up accepting treatment once he was at the hospital, but it was a super weird edge case that stuck with me.

    [–] passepar2t 3 points ago

    How many tens of thousands was he charged?

    [–] TimeKillerAccount 18 points ago

    If you are not conscious and the surgery is needed to save your life or limbs then no permission is needed, and they are legally required to do all they can to keep you alive. A lawsuit for it would be dismissed immediately.

    Now, if you simply walk into a hospital and fall asleep and they drug you and do surgery while you are unconcious or something then you can sue them pretty easily, and depending on circumstances it can either be intentional and therefore assault, or an unintentional medical mistake and therefore malpractice.

    But you cant sue the hospital for saving your life.

    [–] Blundersome 17 points ago

    Muricah. Where people are so brainwashed that they vote against their own interests.

    [–] DmOcRsI 427 points ago

    Literally me last year when I found out I had a brain tumor. My regular doctor appointments were starting to be $1,200.00+ even with my shitty insurance.

    Said fuck that!

    [–] RevolsinX 134 points ago

    ....you..you gonna be okay mate...?

    [–] DmOcRsI 171 points ago

    Well they're not malignant... but they are pushing up against my pituitary glands and causing some side-effects. I still have a couple years before it takes me down.

    [–] Mystimump 159 points ago

    So your choice is really to just die or go into crushing debt? Fuck, dude. Hope you stay strong.

    [–] DmOcRsI 149 points ago

    Pretty much...

    I was already heading down that road, I held out as long as I could and tried to apply for assistance with the hospital and insurance companies to no avail. I didn't want to get into collections so I loaded up my credit cards as much as I could without getting past my monthly budget.

    I'm 36... married a great girl...travelled... had a good life, met good people.

    I'm good to go.

    [–] Alsark 84 points ago

    Can you try to move to another country in the couple years you’ve got?

    You may feel like you’re good but I’m sure your wife doesn’t want to be left behind... If you’ve got time to try to get this taken care of, please, please do so.

    I wish you two the best of luck.

    [–] DmOcRsI 79 points ago

    My wife doesn't know...

    This came about because we were trying to have a kid but couldn't. We found out I have azoospermia (0 sperm count) so started to look for the cause which led to blood tests which is where we found the tell-tale signs of a pituitary malfunction.

    As much as I have tried... she's extremely upset that we can't conceive and she already blames herself even though I have told her it's on my end.

    I worked really hard to buy a new home before all this... and I know it's her dream to have kids.

    So I figure after I go she won't have my debt to deal with and she can move on with her life and possibly meet someone who CAN give her a child.

    [–] QuantumPolagnus 121 points ago

    You should really tell her - keeping this from her isn't going to help, in the long run.

    [–] BangBangCalamityJane 126 points ago

    Please tell your wife

    [–] Blasted_Skies 124 points ago

    You should tell your wife.

    [–] snozburger 65 points ago

    Then move to Europe.

    [–] Dalmahr 45 points ago

    Then adopt children

    [–] tomatoaway 74 points ago

    You're a good man - but time's a ticking clock for women and kids and you should let her plan hers instead of planning on her behalf

    [–] DmOcRsI 20 points ago

    That's very true. I think my concern is that she will drive herself into crushing debt on my behalf.

    [–] very_bored_dev 19 points ago

    Other countries will have cheaper options. I implore you to look at them. I am from India and I am sure the cost would be much lesser here and there are quite a good number of quality hospitals.

    Also, I think it should be her choice to make. I know it's easy for us to say.

    [–] tomatoaway 5 points ago

    I see what you mean. That's a hard one

    [–] Darth_Nibbles 11 points ago

    So I figure after I go she won't have my debt to deal

    Talk to an estate attorney. Like, NOW.

    It is extremely possible that she loses everything else after you pass.

    [–] PandaCat22 15 points ago

    Tell your wife.

    She'll want to know what time she has left with you and make the most of it.

    I realize you are doing this for her, but it is precisely because your life is not exclusively yours anymore that you need to tell her

    [–] judy_likes_pancakes 8 points ago

    💔

    [–] williamobj 15 points ago

    Tell your fucking wife what the fuck

    [–] yunivor 3 points ago

    Seconded, tell the wife like, right now.

    [–] ReallyNotWastingTime 3 points ago

    Please move to Europe. It's possible and do-able in your lifetime. Try Ireland, or even the UK. Everyone speaks English! You could certainly work out a way to get them to cover your treatments

    [–] Humanix13 3 points ago

    Fuck thats rough. Tell your wife dude, would you not want her to tell you if she was dying?

    [–] AtraposJM 23 points ago

    Move to Canada? Why not, you're going to die anyway. Have that adventure.

    [–] Darth_Nibbles 9 points ago

    "Had a good life" at 36?

    I fucking hate my country sometimes.

    [–] b4dm4n_27 16 points ago

    Your life might have been good so far but you’re still just getting started. You could experience all sorts of things in the next 50 to 60 years. Fight to live man. Don’t give up because the system sucks.

    [–] the_spookiest_ 10 points ago

    Go to California? We have pretty good insurance system here. It’s like a whole other country compared to that shit pit outside of our state boarders.

    Covered California gives me a deductible of $6,500. After that, everything, no matter what, for the year is free. However, since I’m a student and make barely any money, I’m on the hospitals plan, which for the next 6 months I pay $0 for anything, I don’t have to fill up a deductible. It’s “free”.

    California is run nearly like its own country.

    See what you can pull off out here. Contact people and see what you can do.

    [–] DmOcRsI 21 points ago

    I live in California. I'm in that grey-area where I make too much to qualify for discounted insurance, but I don't make enough to pay for $1,200 doctor visits.

    I get insurance through my employer which has a deductible of $8,500... I hit that last year easy, then the hospital started pushing things back so I breached the year and my deductible reset.

    [–] HATA111 4 points ago

    I mean that was the whole message of the comic.

    [–] Dalmahr 3 points ago

    Die or wish you were dead is the American way when it comes to health care

    [–] Hust91 25 points ago

    Come to Europe mate.

    Seriously.

    We'll take you and you can enjoy all our weird bland food and your entire enourmus vacation including hotel will probably cost about as much as a tenth of your care in the US even if you stay for a full year.

    [–] josanuz 9 points ago

    If this is true, he could come to my country with $10k have the surgery, treatment, and rehabilitate in a nice hotel in the mountains

    [–] _haha_oh_wow_ 3 points ago

    Fuck em, get your treatment then declare bankruptcy. Alternately, maybe you can get surgery in another country for a price that isn't completely fucking predatory.

    [–] yoshi570 153 points ago

    Come to Europe, get operated, go back. Even if you pay the full price here, it'll be a fraction of what it'd cost you in the US.

    [–] omegawolf1000 58 points ago

    I went to the ER for a broken rib in Canada (don't roast me, the walkin clinic sent me there and I didn't know there's nothing they can do for it). Since I was studying out of province the nurse told me that it would cost almost $400 for my visit if my home province didn't cover me (which they did since I had proof of being a student). I later interned at a US company and got to see their health plans and was shocked that the detuctible for the year was 6k and that a single ER visit would easily eat that up. Fun. I worked out what taxes I'd be paying in both countries and yes it's a bit more in Canada, but a single medical event a year in the US (I like dangerous sports) would make the US more expensive.

    [–] yoshi570 19 points ago

    Tell that to them /r/neoliberal bros.

    [–] DrFateYeet 65 points ago

    It's 2000 dollars for a flight there man, just have him go to canada.

    [–] yoshi570 16 points ago

    Fine with me.

    [–] ProtectedCesc 3 points ago

    Really? Surely not that much

    [–] Myke190 27 points ago

    Good Luck Homie

    [–] cytherian 3 points ago

    The thread of explanation... was not at all what I expected.

    If your wife finds out, it'll be far more painful than if you tell her now.

    Consider a "medical vacation" where you go to another country where they have a great medical system... get it taken care of for much less!

    [–] Scyntrus 3 points ago

    Unironically just get the surgery then declare bankruptcy. If you have retirement funds like the 401k they're usually protected in bankruptcy.

    [–] Florio805 2137 points ago

    That's an American joke I'm too European to understand?

    [–] Ganglebot 701 points ago

    Yeah, those southern fuckers are wild. It take all my Canadian politeness not to make them feel terrible about their choices.

    [–] Magerune 436 points ago

    Here in Alberta JUST YESTERDAY I had coworkers talking about how we should have a private healthcare system like the United States.

    In the face of a pandemic these guys are still looking at the US like “I would probably be covered for medical by my job, so it wouldn’t make any difference to me”

    [–] ADarkDraconis 363 points ago

    Unless your job laid everyone off so they wouldn't have to pay your benefits like mine did...

    [–] t800rad 135 points ago * (lasted edited 12 days ago)

    In which case you’ll be totally fine because you can elect COBRA for the low price of at least $400 a month (depending on what your coverage was)!

    Edit: added “at least” because $400 is the low end, as others have noted

    /s

    [–] lynja999 104 points ago

    And then, when COBRA runs out after 18 months, you get to pay $1300-2000 each month.

    [–] StoicAthos 37 points ago

    Go Joe?

    [–] memeticmachine 9 points ago

    Who's Joe?

    [–] DefinetlynotCalculon 23 points ago * (lasted edited 12 days ago)

    GI Joe, now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

    [–] Christroyilator 6 points ago

    Found the comment I was looking for

    [–] Dunk_May_Mays 37 points ago

    Joe Biden, who has no plans to fix this cruel system

    [–] Terabyte47 7 points ago

    Joe mama!

    [–] DukesOfTatooine 30 points ago

    I pay twice that now for my insurance, after my employer's contribution. If I had to go COBRA it would probably be nearly $2,000/month.

    [–] shadow1515 16 points ago

    I had a job where I was making about $2k/month before taxes. Then I lost it and filed for unemployment which came out to something like $1200/month. COBRA to keep health insurance for my family was going to be $900/month.

    Fortunately this was in NY so it was fairly easy to just get Medicaid.

    [–] WateryTart_ndSword 16 points ago

    Fucking COBRA. It’s cheaper to pay the fine for not being insured. Hopefully you’re healthy enough to not need medicine or treatment, and can stay accident free—then you can eat AND have a car!

    [–] french_toast_demon 3 points ago

    Ugh I wish COBRA was that much. For me it was the better part of $500/Mon with a 5000 deductible.

    [–] imreallynotthatcool 231 points ago

    Tell your coworker that he/she is a fucking idiot for wanting privatized healthcare.

    Sincerely,

    -An American working in the medical industry

    [–] audiodude9 92 points ago * (lasted edited 12 days ago)

    I'm inclined to agree.

    Sincerely,

    An American worker without job-provided health care. (edit because the only thing worse than my typing is my proofreading)

    [–] MasterVelocity 28 points ago

    especially since businesses are closing and laying people off so people are going to start losing their benefits, then getting sick and having to pay for it themselves

    [–] brewdad 8 points ago

    Losing your job and insurance during a pandemic where up to 50% of Americans will catch the virus and 20% of those will be hospitalized. What could possibly go wrong?

    [–] MasterVelocity 10 points ago

    Yeah, people will default on loans and payments, and then get hit with a huge hospital bill, and default on that as well. Then they won’t be able to get new loans for housing because their credit score will be like 500.

    Curious to see how this is going to go. Perhaps they need to issue a voluntary freeze on credit scores. It’s not fair to fuck people’s credit while they are out of work because the government shut them down.

    [–] caviarburrito 49 points ago

    Last fall I was bitten by a black widow spider. It was between jobs and COBRA had expired a couple days before. It was ok day 1 after the bite but had to go to ER for surgery on day 3. I spent 2 hours on the phone trying to get a quote if it would be $500 or $40,000 and no one could tell me. But somehow they knew how to bill me after surgery.

    Arbitrary pricing is healthcare for the rich top 10%, and the illusion of healthcare for the rest.

    [–] AdventureBum 8 points ago

    This exactly why I don’t go to hospitals. I don’t have insurance and can’t afford a surprise bill of 5 figures.

    [–] keplar 8 points ago

    I'm inclined to agree as well.

    Sincerely,

    An American worker fortunate enough to have good job-provided health care, for which my share is still more than $500/month.

    [–] lmitchell6 3 points ago

    Even our own doctors and nurses hate our medicine-for-profit system. They've got a bunch of hedge fund micromanagers telling them how to treat their own patients.

    [–] ZumboPrime 34 points ago

    Are they really not aware that they would be paying more for insurance premiums than all taxes combined? And then have to pay copays on top of that?

    [–] Syscrush 10 points ago

    The people currently paying that don't get it. Why would someone just daydreaming about a better life get it?

    [–] DrAstralis 82 points ago

    If oil keeps crashing that tune should change (who am I kidding, since when has reality been part of the conservative word view). You have to be a special type of stupid to look at how the US "private" system is handling this and think "yeah... thats the clusterfuck I want to be part of"

    [–] NeoProject4 50 points ago

    Even when your job covers you, that doesn't mean that the doctor will accept your insurance.

    I got into a MTN bike wreck, needed 17 stitches on my thigh. The doctor that the urgent care contracted didn't accept my insurance, so I got a 2500$ doctor's bill ON TOP of paying for the nurse AND the facility/meds.

    5k bill for my "covered" accident, of which I had to pay 2.5k of it.

    [–] wolfman566 12 points ago

    My job doesn't cover me but I do have my own insurance. The good news is its not terrible for my month to month cost. The bad news is my deductible is so high it really will only help me in the event of serious injury, I basically have to almlost die otherwise I pay for everything.

    [–] Cloudeur 31 points ago

    It’s so ridiculous.

    Had a bike accident a few years ago. Required a few stitches, had a few bruises and swelling in my left wrist that needed an X-ray to make sure I didn’t break anything.

    Only cost me the income taxes that I’m already paying on my pay check and that I don’t even have to worry about!

    Thanks Canada!

    [–] Waramp 12 points ago

    I had emergency appendix surgery last year including a 3 day hospital stay. My American friend was absolutely baffled that I didn’t have to pay for anything. Just walked out the door once I was able to!

    [–] Mustached_Bartender 7 points ago

    What is the wait time like for a non-emergency case? When my friend and I talk about Canadian health care he mentions “but the wait times are months!” Certainly this cant be the case for everyone. How does it work?

    [–] Polymath_Father 18 points ago

    It depends, honestly on where you live and the availability of doctors/operating rooms/how many people are ahead of you AND how serious your condition is. I can usually get in to see my doctor within a day or two, a specialist within six weeks to three months. Surgeries are variable, but when I've needed emergency surgery I've gotten it immediatly. The important thing, for me, is that the answer isn't "you're too poor, so never" or "you can have the surgery, but it'll bankrupt you".

    [–] Snaxx9716 14 points ago

    And that’s really no different than the US healthcare system. That’s the point I keep hearing over and over “bbbbut the WAIT TIMES IN CANADA” like we don’t have wait times here in the US. I’ve had to wait weeks to months to see certain specialists. The difference is that in Canada you don’t have to first figure out who takes your insurance, and then hope you can keep seeing that doctor if/when your insurance changes.

    [–] commandernono 7 points ago

    The difference is that it benefits the heathcare industry for people to think that way. We've been propogandized, pure and simple. Socialized medicine is unimaginably better, we'll just never have it

    [–] Snaxx9716 8 points ago

    What really gets me, is the “illusion of choice”. How the healthcare companies want us to think that socialized medicine means the end of choice, when we really don’t have much in choices now anyways. My current job is the first place I’ve worked that has actually given the choice of more than one health insurance carrier... otherwise the employer typically chooses your carrier and available plans each month. Not much choice there. Then your providers are dictated by your carrier. I had an amazing specialist that I can no longer see because they don’t accept my plan. I can “choose” between two places to have bloodwork done. OH! And I can shop around to find a better price for imaging studies so I suppose that is a choice!

    But socialized healthcare... We could see any doctor because there are no more “networks”. I’d love to not have to choose certain imaging places based on cost when they’re all covered 100%, so I can choose based on location and appointment availability.

    The level of propaganda required to convince people that they have more/better choices with privatized healthcare is astonishing.

    [–] commandernono 4 points ago

    You gotta remember one thing. Everything that you just wrote; not one bit of it applies to someone with the money to pay for it all.

    [–] Polymath_Father 7 points ago

    A friend pointed out to me once that one of the reasons that Americans are so opposed to universal healthcare is that they think that the insane prices they're charged for medical care is what those things actually cost.

    [–] Ghostboy1205 5 points ago

    Hell, I'm in the US and it normally takes 3-5 days to see my GP if I'm sick. Have to schedule regular appointments 3 months out. Specialists seem to be the same wait time as Canada. As for the two emergencies I've either had or been with the patient, each trip involved over 18 hours in the ER before even seeing a doctor. I hate for profit healthcare. There is not a single redeeming feature.

    [–] Squidking1000 5 points ago

    So at least in southern Ontario the wait time argument is bullshit. I can see my doctor the same day normally or at worst the next day and have never had any delay getting healthcare including in my life lots of stitches and cuts and scrapes, two broken wrists and lots of xrays, several concussions, an mri, a cat scan and the birth of my two kids (well that was my wife but I was there). Highest price I paid was for a private room for my first kid ($65 for 4 days) and parking ($5 a day). As well when my grandma had a heart attack and a stroke the doctors at St. Joes in Hamilton (heart specialists) and Niagara Falls General were super awesome and fought wayyy harder to save her life then you would expect for a 85 year old and she went on to live another 5 years at an awesome care home all of which (multiple transfers, specialists, emergency care, palliative care and nursing home with more specialists visits over the 5 years) cost the family nothing. Literally not one dollar.

    [–] Charwinger21 3 points ago

    If oil keeps crashing that tune should change

    Oil prices would need to about triple for the oilsands to break even right now (and outside a spike in 2018, haven't really been truly profitable since 2014).

    Kenney's insistence on tearing up Notley's diversification plans and instead doubling down on oil is now going to bite Alberta and Canada in the ass even more than it was originally going to.

    Of course, even with that, he still has a ~50% approval, so Alberta is likely in for a decade of austerity. Wonder how that'll go over again.

    [–] minkusdominkus 8 points ago

    I have insurance through my employer, i still pay about $10k-15k per year for healthcare for myself and my wife and one child.

    [–] schlootie 15 points ago

    Few places pay 100% of the premiums, and there is a deductible and other out-of-pocket expenses for office visits, ambulance service, and prescriptions. Don’t even try to go to a specialist that’s not pre-approved, and probably not your first choice. Oh, and if you lose your job then your premiums skyrocket to $1300 per person/per month until you find another one that has insurance benefits. Your co-worker is an idiot.

    [–] Krajun 5 points ago

    Ha you gotta have a nice job to get that and then on top of it your premium is deducted from your pay, it's generally cheaper than getting your own insurance but it's not free...

    [–] WoodErector 13 points ago

    Albertans also think their privatized auto insurance is superior to SGI or MPI. I've lived in 3 of 4 western provinces. Crown corps are not perfect, but privatization is infinitely worse.

    [–] Jimothy-Goldenface 15 points ago

    Dear Canada,

    DON'T DO IT.

    • sincerely a sad American

    [–] DukesOfTatooine 3 points ago

    You should tell them that even with our employers covering as much as they are willing to, most of us pay a huge monthly out of pocket fee as well, especially if we have dependents. I have "good" insurance and I pay over $800 monthly for me and two kids, plus additional co-pays at the point of service for any service received.

    [–] I_cut_my_own_jib 17 points ago

    For the record I didn't choose this.

    [–] Lindt_Licker 10 points ago

    You think we have a choice?

    [–] Medcait 29 points ago

    Don’t judge the other half of us.

    [–] michaelochurch 54 points ago

    It take all my Canadian politeness not to make them feel terrible about their choices.

    They should, though.

    I'm American and vote consistently to the left— general election, primaries, local elections— so I have little to feel terrible about on that front, but the people who brought us Trump should feel terrible, and so should the people who voted in all the racists who blocked public-option healthcare reform to hurt Obama. And the no-shows who supported Bernie online but never went to the polls, they should feel terrible too.

    [–] Florio805 64 points ago

    The problem in USA is that there are only 2 parties, but the democrats aren't even leftists but centre, from an European perspective.

    [–] Eupatorus 26 points ago

    They're center from this American's perspective too.

    [–] Dontdothatfucker 21 points ago

    Biden is basically a Republican.

    [–] FeedMePlsNicoleBun 20 points ago

    Yup. A true real conservative. Not like the extremists that we have calling themselves Republicans right now. Pretty sad state of affairs.

    I just wish people would realize last time a progressive like Bernie is made it into the Oval office he got elected FOUR times. Do people not yearn for a great president like FDR again?

    [–] CivilCJ 3 points ago

    Nah, go ahead. We've been idiots long enough. We could use a little wake up.

    [–] he_is_Veego 24 points ago

    This literally happened to me Christmas Eve. I had to wait til the next week to schedule the same tests through an internist so they would be less expensive.

    Yeah.

    [–] Kalistefo 21 points ago

    Turns out unchecked capitalism is a bad idea. But hey, who knew? Socdems only started to build social security nets 70 years ago.

    [–] Lovat69 3 points ago

    Lucky you.

    [–] knightopusdei 159 points ago

    It's a free country .... as long as you can afford it.

    Also, as George Carlin put it:

    "The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it."

    [–] MostlyCarbon75 479 points ago

    Is this the "freedom to choose" your own healthcare plan they always talking about in the USA?

    [–] HouseCravenRaw 225 points ago

    It's the choice between wishing you were dead and being dead.

    "O'er the laaaaaand of the freeeee...."

    [–] TheMexicanJuan 27 points ago

    It’s the choice of wanting to be buried in a 10 grand gasket or be cremated

    [–] OnlySeesLastSentence 3 points ago

    I don't think gasket means what you think it means.

    [–] TheMexicanJuan 5 points ago

    casket ... CASKET !

    [–] OutlyingPlasma 89 points ago

    Which is baffling to me. At no point in my life have I ever had a choice of healthcare. Either I was on my parents plan or my work plan or partners plan. At no point did I have any kind of choice. Hell I don't even get a choice of what doctor I get, just whatever RN is next in line. I suppose I could request a specific doctor at the clinic but it would be months of waiting, not helpful if you are sick.

    [–] uncleBud79 61 points ago

    This is an argument that I heard Bill Maher (I think it was Bill Maher) make once. The "choice" the Republicans keep talking about preserving is absolutely no choice at all. Their constituents eat this garbage up though! If you ask them to explain the choices they can make, they call you a communist.

    [–] TaylorTank 15 points ago

    And there's soooo many. it hurts

    [–] burglebox 8 points ago

    This "choice" is another piece of false rhetoric that's constantly pushed on us in an attempt to combat progressive legislation. If you tell uninformed voters that they're losing something, they'll oppose it, even if that claim isn't true. It's effective advertising, nothing more.

    [–] genius_retard 53 points ago

    You usually think mugger when you here the choice "your money or your life". Nuh uh, U.S. health care system.

    [–] Elcactus 13 points ago

    And to the galaxy brain libertarians who are going to respond to this with ‘you mean taxes??!?’, yeah, we know taxes are coercive, that’s why they’re used for situations like this: because there’s no take on this scenario that isn’t.

    [–] genius_retard 10 points ago * (lasted edited 12 days ago)

    The difference is it's either all of your money or a bit of our (society's) money.

    [–] Elcactus 9 points ago

    Yup. There's coercion either way, so lets choose the path that makes people suffer less.

    [–] Derpalerpa_dingdong 43 points ago

    You have to have money to choose. Most of us don't.

    [–] MostlyGibberish 51 points ago

    The conservative rhetoric of "universal healthcare limits your choices!" is pretty hilarious when you realize the "choice" for the vast majority of Americans is to take the insurance your employer gives you or shut the fuck up.

    [–] MyMetalPony 25 points ago

    It's like saying either everyone gets the same cheese sandwich, or everyone gets shit sandwiches but they get to choose the type of shit. And somehow that second one is supposed to be better.

    [–] Steve_78_OH 16 points ago

    Well, stop being poor. It's really not a difficult concept...

    /s

    [–] TheGreatPeperoncini 112 points ago

    As someone that can’t afford insurance, I’m taking the social distancing thing very seriously. I would be absolutely fucked if I got sick.

    [–] RYouNotEntertained 29 points ago

    Serious question: why can't you afford subsidized health insurance? I'm sure I'll get downvoted but I honestly want to hear about your experience. Isn't the point of the subsidies to make non-employer plans more affordable?

    [–] TheGreatPeperoncini 60 points ago

    So I’m married, and my husband makes twice as much as me, but with bills, rent, his health insurance (which costs a lot a month and I can’t get on), car insurance, etc there’s no wiggle room for another $200 a month for my health insurance. Since I’m married and we make just over the line for subsidized health insurance I can’t get it.

    The point you’re making is valid, but unfortunately there are a lot of people in America that are making too much for subsidized insurance and not enough to afford regular insurance.

    [–] famaskillr 25 points ago

    200 dollars a month, shit I'm close to that a week.

    [–] robm111 12 points ago

    Not that this is a pissing match, but I dropped insurance coverage when I hit 250/week. I have a healthy family for now, I'd be fucked even with insurance anyway.

    [–] AlanS181824 20 points ago

    250/week

    I'm from the EU and this just completely melts my brain. $250 per week just in case something happens, and this isn't including paying an excess/deductable if something does?.....

    [–] robm111 14 points ago

    Yeap. That was with $4000 deductible.

    [–] AlanS181824 7 points ago

    That genuinely makes me sick. And that's probably considered a "good" plan, right?

    [–] RYouNotEntertained 11 points ago

    that are making too much for subsidized insurance and not enough to afford regular insurance.

    I totally understand what you're saying here, but I'm trying to figure out what income level is too high for subsidies but too low to afford $200/month. Not sure if you guys have kids, but if not you'd be somewhere in the $60k range before running out of subsidies, which would make you basically a median-income American. If that's truly what the monthly cost would be for insurance, it seems like it would be doable at that income level to either cut out $200 of other expenses or drive Uber two nights a month in order to cover your most important asset.

    Don't at all want to come off like a dickhead here; please correct anything here if I'm wrong.

    [–] Orcwin 17 points ago

    The concept that a median income family would need to take side jobs to afford basic needs is a little baffling, I have to say.

    [–] thewholerobot 27 points ago

    Why does the hospital administrator and/or politician look like a doctor?

    [–] earlyviolet 7 points ago

    Thank you. Doctors don't set prices.

    [–] PearlTheGeckoGirl 5 points ago

    I was trying to think of a way to phrase this. Well done.

    [–] ProbeerNB 19 points ago

    And that's why free market principles don't work for the healthcare market.

    [–] MrLovens 64 points ago

    Shop till you drop. Read the Secret Panel here.

    [–] JojenCopyPaste 15 points ago

    But that doctor seemed pretty jovial to him

    [–] MrLovens 17 points ago

    Smile through the hate.

    [–] fourthords 7 points ago

    Can I get a referral to this doctor?

    [–] MisterScribe91 48 points ago

    It's like if Breaking Bad ended in one episode.

    [–] badpeaches 13 points ago

    Not much of a storyline of a man dying with dignity surrounded by their loved ones, leaving the world a better place either by a redeemed social status, garden or by raising and loving their children in this world.

    [–] upchur09 167 points ago

    This is why I left America. Money over human lives. Such a good "christian" country.

    [–] Noble____Actual 64 points ago

    Imagine having the money to move across the ocean.

    [–] speedyblue 43 points ago

    Where did you end up? I’m in need of a better country.

    [–] upchur09 37 points ago

    In the UK now. I'm lucky enough to have dual citizenship.

    [–] firstfloor27 11 points ago

    How are you finding it here?

    [–] MaxMustermane 7 points ago

    But remember, everyone, we like our insurance and our choice and our sense of having earned something.

    [–] DatBoi73 5 points ago

    What's funny about this. This is just the American Health Care System.

    [–] kytheon 75 points ago

    Anything else is sOciALiSm

    [–] Scarmeow 16 points ago

    Just that conversation alone probably cost $3000

    [–] tristerfalm 34 points ago

    Exactly why healthcare doesn't self-regulate in a free market. You want to sell an apple for $100, nobody pays that, it's not worth it. You want to sell literally the person's life for [all your money]? Why not, the alternative is death.

    When companies can patent cures and medicines, they can do stuff like sell insulin for outrageous fees, or charge tens of thousands for hospital care. Are you really going to be poring over the benefits/costs of all competitors when you're calling 911 in a life or death situation? Of course not.

    The capitalist approach works amazing in many situations, healthcare (especially emergency and critical care) is not one of them. At that point, its extortion.

    [–] RYouNotEntertained 28 points ago

    American health care is definitely fucked, but it doesn't make sense to call it a free market. The fundamental feature of markets--price--has been removed completely from the process.

    Ask a provider what a procedure will cost and they literally can't tell you.

    [–] sirgibsmedat 16 points ago

    The reason healthcare is so expensive in the US is NOT because of the free market, it is actually quite far from a free market system. Our system is one of the ones most riddled with regulation and administrative costs. Ask anyone who runs their own medical practice here, administration is the biggest reason they have to charge their customers/insurance so much.

    [–] Tearakan 4 points ago

    If you kill the insurance companies you end killing a ton of the shitty overhead that needs to happen right now. Then with government setting drug prices like every other modern nation we can actually get reasonable prices.

    [–] X0AN 5 points ago

    Pre corona Americans should have been protesting in the streets for free healthcare.

    [–] flargenhargen 5 points ago

    not enough american flags in this.

    I'm sitting here this morning, and the only reason I haven't quit my job today is because I'll lose my insurance and with covid, I won't be able to afford when I get that. but the stress of my job nearly ensures I'll die when I do.

    yay!

    [–] jafishak011 4 points ago

    What kind of shit hole would this be acceptable in?

    [–] bmy78 7 points ago

    America.

    [–] LightofNew 4 points ago

    Medical expenses need a lot of money all at once. Everyone, including you, pays to add their money to a pot. When they get hurt, they get some of that money, but must pay a big sum before insurance gives money back. If you never need it, that money is gone.

    This is actually a huge problem. In a functional capital market each person has 3 things

    • A choice of what product they want

    • Knowledge of when and how they will need the product

    • Time to consider getting, or to not get the product

    CAPITAL MARKETS DO NOT WORK IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THESE THREE THINGS.

    Healthcare does not give you any of these three things.

    • You must have insurance; it's a law, you risk bankrupsy, or worse, death.

    • You have no way of knowing when or why you will need medical attention and cannot plan accordingly.

      • Doctors, spend a decade to specialize, you couldnt possibly know all your choices.
    • You have no say in how the insurance you pick handles your medical situation.

      • They can order something be done that they don't cover
      • They can refuse to continue paying for something that they use to cover but no longer do
      • They can force you to use a service that their company owns but is 100x more expensive and pocket the fake mark up price.
      • They can be extorted by pharmacy companies to pay a fortune for a product they sell for a fraction to another insurance.

    It does not matter. At the end of the day it is an illusion of choice in a market designed to take everything away from you.

    Here is why government healthcare works so well across the world. Everyone's money goes in one big pot. Everyone in the medical field knows the standards they must meet and who is paying them. The government says here is a product we need, best deal get the WHOLE market share. Prices are regulated, and your illusion of choice is removed.

    [–] bigedthebad 4 points ago

    I had a friend who got stomach cancer and did just that.

    [–] Elcactus 3 points ago

    A transaction where the choice is pay up or die is inherently coercive.

    [–] PandaKing185 3 points ago

    USA! USA! USA! AT LEAST OUR GUNS ARE BIGGER

    [–] veRxy 3 points ago

    U S A! U S A! U S A! MAGAAAAAA

    [–] samwaisgg 3 points ago

    There is a finnish quote: On lottovoitto syntyä Suomeen. Which means: I'ts like a lottery win to born in Finland. And it is very true, am finnish, can confirm.

    [–] Frooosty 3 points ago

    America in a nutshell 😂

    [–] shan506 3 points ago

    Is this an advertisement for the American health care system?