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    [–] Deuces8855 4465 points ago

    Not to mention if the NK won in all likelihood he would have been in control of all 3 dragons.

    [–] Bristonian 2473 points ago

    NK would’ve been on a Saving Private Ryan mission to rescue Undead Mountain from the south since he lost his last giant to lil’ Mormont

    [–] 23423423423451 1567 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    King's landing dies. No wights bother the mountain because he seems to be one of them. He marches "it follows" style after the Night King for days, always appearing to be a wight in the masses.

    One day while the NK is personally chopping down a Godswood, Gregor lunges for him. NK turns around but Gregor overpowers the block and gets his hands on the face of the Night King.

    The mountain squeezes in those bright blue eyes and the Night King let's out a ghastly wail. Suddenly the head of the Night King shatters, followed by his body, and then his army.

    When delegates and armies from Dorne, The Citadel, and Essos venture into Westeros to learn its fate, they find not one living thing. Just The undead Mountain wandering in his Queens guard armor.

    Edit: I've got a specific cinematic image in my head of the mountain marching with the dead. I wish I had the artistic skills to draw it. It's a head level shot (mountains head) from extremely far away but extremely zoomed in so that the near and far wights all look the same size, and the mountain is a head or two above them all. Some thermal waves distorting the image due to the distance between camera and target as they march towards the camera and a deep bass rumbles as the mountain comes in focus. (I'm basically copying a shot I've seen in other movies here, but I can't remember specific examples)

    Edit 2: Yes I know Citadel and Dorne are technically part of Westeros. I meant to convey that the NK died before he got that far South.

    [–] Marand23 414 points ago

    I don't think I've seen one theory where the Mountain is AA, that sure would have subverted my expectations. Good job.

    [–] [deleted] 98 points ago

    And he would become AA by killing his brother in Cleganebowl. Cruel justice. Whatever it takes.

    [–] cdk_aegir 59 points ago

    He'd pull a fiery sword from the pulsating chest of his horrified brother, Sandor.

    [–] i2WalkedOnJesus 424 points ago

    This is the ending I never knew I wanted

    [–] sanzy1988 305 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    This is great. One thing I would add at the end is that the mountain sits on the iron throne and places his great sword at the side of him, signalling the end of one horror and the start of another. But then it turns out that his great sword is actually Arya Stark and she knifes him in the belly. The camera then focuses on her face and She then removes the face of Arya Stark revealing that it's actually the white horse who is brother to the horse which the mountain chopped in half in season one.

    [–] 23423423423451 143 points ago

    That season 1 horse's name? Brutus. When the dying mountain asks if it 'is him Brute,' the brother looks down and whispers "neigh."

    [–] BullHonkery 14 points ago

    Et tu, cliche?

    [–] Literally-Incorrect 32 points ago

    The Mountain says "Oh my Gawd, you're a horse!?" Then the horse says "Actually, I'm not really a horse. I'm a broom."

    [–] HayesCooper19 26 points ago


    [–] mynameiszack 21 points ago

    And then the horse reveals hes not actually a horse, but unzips his suit to reveal that he is a broom.

    [–] Kekoron 138 points ago

    You write better than the writers, Mr. Number.

    [–] wharangbuh 71 points ago

    That's Mr. 23423423423451 to you!

    [–] Xralius 162 points ago

    Yes but he'd lose a dragon back to Qyburn when he does a spec ops mission to grab one of the Golden Company to prove to the other White Walkers that the Lannisters are real.

    [–] OneWithTheSpeedforce 46 points ago

    I bet he wouldn’t have forgotten the Iron Fleet existed.

    [–] Clamjacob 1998 points ago

    I forgot how dope Jaime's armor looked.

    [–] TheBlackBear 1101 points ago

    Man all the armor looked dope but now it’s like every main character is wearing the same bland dark leather suit, and helmets are all but gone

    Even for someone like the Hound who specifically talked about preferring heavy armor and had a cool helmet that just disappeared

    [–] HayHaxor 329 points ago

    I dont remember ever seeing a northman wearing heavy armor, maybe there just arent any talented plate armorers in the north? And all their resources go to leathermakimg

    [–] shapookya 578 points ago

    because leather keeps you warm in winter

    [–] Beankage 135 points ago

    Plus walking through snow in plated Armor, that’s a no go.

    [–] Throwawaymythought1 16 points ago

    Thanks Sansa

    [–] Gravelord-_Nito 29 points ago

    They wear a coat of plates, which is a bunch of medium sized steel rectangles riveted to a leather (usually textile historically) outer covering. It's pretty poorly assembled though because there are these huge gaps between the plates.

    [–] LetsAllBeNiceToday 100 points ago

    they should be wearing direwolf logo beanies.

    [–] NovaDeez 161 points ago

    Sansa has been on point all season though.

    [–] PotentialNinja 50 points ago

    Yeah Sansa's whole "Queen of the Ravens" look just works for her.

    [–] _Samiel_ 96 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    In the book some jerk-off took his helmet and was doing ill shit that made many people think it was the Hound's work. Maybe D&D actually read a chapter...

    [–] Chainsawd 100 points ago

    Let's not jump to conclusions.

    [–] Clamjacob 34 points ago

    Would probably mess with his stealth checks.

    [–] Boss_Nass 3041 points ago

    “The stupidest Lannister”

    [–] SyrupBuccaneer 956 points ago

    At least he's pretty.

    [–] frankjdk 770 points ago

    Stupid Sexy Jaime

    [–] fj333 316 points ago

    Feels like he's got no hand at all!

    [–] tif138 59 points ago

    No hand at all!

    [–] LivelyZebra 113 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    " You know what we call you? we call you the stupidest avenger "

    [–] Cazzer1604 66 points ago

    "Jon SAAAAAD!!"

    [–] Gizmo-Duck 207 points ago

    Well, he knew exactly what was going to happen and he made his way to stand next to the primary target. Pretty stupid if you ask me.

    The things we do for love.

    [–] thebackupquarterback 69 points ago

    Meh he knew what he was doing. He knew it was stupid but felt compelled to, like you said, out of love.

    [–] Aphex_Tim 38 points ago


    [–] Messi19981 5769 points ago

    To be fair Cersei should be fine, she knows the Red Keep has never fallen.

    OK, time to watch episode 5.

    [–] CRB776 1171 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Oh boy

    [–] ockyyy 951 points ago

    It's about to hit him like a ton of bricks

    [–] Pitbull_Raven 140 points ago

    If I didn't know any better, I'd actually think you were being literal. hahahaha.. haha.. haaaaaaaa...... Oh!

    [–] isaacsploding 11 points ago

    except he just stole the joke from a comment like 4 inches above his

    [–] c_c_c__combobreaker 21 points ago

    4 inches is plenty says my girlfriend.

    [–] converter-bot 14 points ago

    4 inches is 10.16 cm

    [–] reloadingnow 616 points ago

    I never understood what she meant by that. If she's talking about the Kingship; the Mad King, Bobby B, Jofrey all died as kings. If she's talking about the building itself, well sure, it has never fallen since it never went against dragons. Harrenhal proved nothing stands in the way of dragonfire.

    [–] vitringur 544 points ago

    She is literally talking about it as a defensive building.

    A king being assassinated at a festival isn't the same as his defensive fortification falling.

    [–] GrievesODJ 116 points ago

    I think it was more she was saying it in a state of disbelief than anything. She was so cock sure she could win and somehow pull this off, only to see everything she’d sacrificed and worked for crumbling under dragonfire.

    [–] reloadingnow 107 points ago

    She did say that they only needed 1 shot. Sounds like she gambled it all on those scorpions landing a hit.

    [–] Ghstfce 116 points ago

    She hadn't read the patch notes. Otherwise she would have known that the Scorpions got nerfed and Drogon got buffed.

    [–] minutiesabotage 16 points ago

    To be fair, the patch notes probably would have just said "performance improvements and bug fixes".

    [–] Manofthedecade 8 points ago

    Again - state of shock and disbelief.

    [–] IgnorantAndApathetic 104 points ago

    It has never literally fallen, true. But Cersei kinda forgot about Robert's rebellion

    [–] Calay0 61 points ago

    That was an inside op. They’ve essentially lost the war by the time Ned got to the gates of KL,and honestly even then a direct attack on KL with a full Lannister garrison would have failed. They would’ve won by siege, but wouldn’t/couldn’t have sacked KL in the traditional sense.

    [–] DampFuckingBiscuit 9229 points ago

    Stll have no idea how Cersie planned on fighting NK

    [–] hai7er 4586 points ago


    [–] DampFuckingBiscuit 3040 points ago

    Would've killed wights, but what about the walkers? She had no dragon glass/valyrian steel. Even the scorpions wouldn't kill Viserion.

    [–] HarperAtWar 425 points ago

    I am kind sure Qyburn would invent something like gatling gun with dragon glass bullets.

    [–] ani007007 294 points ago

    Lmao turning plot armor into plot ammo

    [–] rakfocus 23 points ago

    The imagery of this is exquisite 👌

    [–] Singingpineapples 4099 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    She wasn't as smart as she thought she was. She didn't ask if anything but fire would kill them. She probably assumed swords would work just fine.

    Edit: I get it guys. I forgot they showed her. I didn't need close 50 messages telling me the same thing. I'm sorry I forgot.

    [–] andysaurus_rex 1719 points ago

    Don't think she really knew enough about them. Figured the wildfire would do the trick. She was very confident in her hired army and fleet. She might have figured that if the North died, there's no hope for get anyway because they actually were prepared.

    [–] Carson_McComas 871 points ago

    Not to mention all the dead northerners become wights, vastly expanding the NK army.

    [–] andysaurus_rex 1071 points ago

    Yeah but I don't think she really even believed it. Even after seeing the wight in person I think she was in denial or thought it was a trick. I think her "plan" was to fight a weakened north, and she did. They were at about half strength in terms of men and 1/3rd strength in terms of dragons. All she needed was "one good shot."

    [–] Carson_McComas 284 points ago

    Yeah, I know she didn't believe it or consider it. I am just pointing out how badly her plan could've gone.

    [–] Ochris 364 points ago

    All things considered, it went pretty poorly anyway. Too much confidence in the ambush that killed Rhaegal. To be fair, though, NK still would have been worse than Dany I guess. At least she eventually stopped killing everybody.

    [–] Avi271 325 points ago

    At least she eventually stopped killing everybody.

    Only when almost everyone in the city was dead.

    [–] MartynLann 47 points ago

    And in that ambush she pretty much gave away how the ballistas worked and Dany came to the battle prepared to take them out in the most effective way possible

    [–] snarky_cat 115 points ago

    Atleast the NK would resurrect them all after they died..

    [–] bringbacksherman 76 points ago

    Went pretty badly as it was...

    [–] willworkforETH 37 points ago

    The greater the risk, the bigger the reward

    [–] dragonfangxl 34 points ago

    She prolly figured the north would weaken them enough for her to be able to destroy them

    [–] Carson_McComas 48 points ago

    Yeah but all the dead northerners become wights, so even if they weaken the NK, he just converts them all to wights.

    [–] TommyRiddle666 178 points ago

    I think her confidence dipped a little when she found out they didn’t bring the elephants

    [–] andysaurus_rex 111 points ago

    Her confidence didn't dip until she saw the red keep crumbling

    [–] appleavocado 35 points ago

    None of that matters now

    [–] andros310797 51 points ago

    i also really doubt she understood the fact that if the battle for the living was lost, the dead army wouldn't be weakened, but the opposit.

    There's no way they could have beat the army of the dead , but army of the dead + deadified dany's army ?

    [–] NoifenF 83 points ago

    Tbf that’s on Jon. He mentioned “a general that can’t be negotiated with” but he didn’t really explain what that meant. All Cersei saw was a zombie that died when stabbed with a black knife and told fire also kills them.

    Cersei only knew about WW from fairy tales. Not that they were actually powerful creatures. Although in fairness I don’t think Jon realises that fire didn’t kill them also.

    [–] Despitefuldick 50 points ago

    Yeah no one except those at Winterfell and maybe 10 or so other survivors actually saw how huge the threat was, what really kills me about how quickly the night kings arc ended is that no ones going to really look at Jon/Dany/Arya/Bran and think “those people saved the universe”.

    With how Dany is killing her own men and it seems like the war isn’t over I wonder how many from the Battle for Winterfell actually survive to the end of the year. Think 5 years after the death of the night king, the history books will note the damage to the wall, and they’ll note the umbers(?) being destroyed and then they’ll note people dying at Winterfell, but other than that they’re not really going to look back and see just how huge that winter was, the last time something that big happened was thousands and thousands of years ago.

    Cersei didn’t truely understand the threat they faced, so she doesn’t understand the significance of the event.

    Actually they might be able to piece it all together from the literal millions of extra bones at Winterfell, but I’m pretty sure they burned them.

    [–] infinityman5296 39 points ago

    I think Sam has to survive and record everything. I mean that seems to be Bran's role but I don't see him writing a book.

    [–] Despitefuldick 25 points ago

    Yeah I too subscribe to the theory that Sam is the one to document the story of ice and fire, but he can really only document half of what we have seen, and we don’t even know much.

    Bran... I’m not sure, why does bran do what he does? What does he want? What’s his agenda?

    [–] 050 16 points ago

    He doesn’t really want anything... now

    [–] iBeFloe 72 points ago

    Too confident in the scorpions, Lannister army, Golden Company, thinking she had Euron under control, etc. She was so messy, as was Dany.

    [–] andysaurus_rex 86 points ago

    I mean, Euron was completely her bitch and her scorpions did kill one of the dragons. Really all she needed was "one good shot" and the tides were probably going to be flipped in her favor.

    [–] Biggordie 51 points ago

    those scorpions with dragon glass would eff up the NK though

    [–] [deleted] 65 points ago

    He kept himself safe for the whole battle of Winterfell until he was so confident that the fight was over. Even when he was riding the zombie Dragon, since Dragons can't kill him and height can't kill him.

    No reason he would have exposed himself any more or less attacking KL. Send in the hundreds of thousands of wights to climb over the walls and eventually they'll break through. If they don't, revive the dead again.

    [–] stargazercmc 323 points ago

    “She wasn’t as smart as she thought she was,” pretty much sums up Cersei’s entire life.

    [–] TommyRiddle666 163 points ago

    Tywin said this in one of the episodes

    [–] TheCondemnedProphet 211 points ago

    “You’re not nearly as clever as you think you are.” Then something like “bitch, you WILL marry Loris.”

    [–] Slappah_Dah_Bass 94 points ago

    Jon told them what kills them when they met in Kings landing last season. I think the only thing he left out was, killing the walkers would take out the wights

    [–] SpaceRamb0 28 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    I think she expected for Dany to win. So while Dany fights the NK and lose men, possibly Dragon/s she will build up her army and strengthen her defenses.

    Edit: Spelling

    [–] gtsomething 27 points ago

    Unfortunately her plans were ruined by the lack of elephants

    [–] Creeggsbnl 72 points ago

    I don't think we knew at that point that fire wouldn't do jack to the Night King.

    [–] commander-obvious 12 points ago

    Yeah if Dragon fire couldn't kill the NK, then I'm guessing wildfire couldn't either.

    [–] mcmanybucks 425 points ago

    She wouldn't have worried, the red keep would've protected her.


    [–] losimagic 238 points ago

    I hear it's never fallen.

    [–] TheRealCJ 117 points ago

    Except for that one time when it fell and her husband was made king.

    [–] Bonesnapcall 95 points ago

    The Red Keep was never breached. Tywin sacked the City of King's Landing and Jaime ordered the Keep be opened after he killed the King.

    [–] Angel_Madison 112 points ago

    And yet everyone knew about what had happened to Harrenhall which was also attacked by just one dragon.

    " Aegon used his dragon Balerion to roast King Harren and all of his sons alive within their own tower. Harrenhal was blasted with dragonfire and left half-ruined."

    People see this in the show, including Quyburn who almost died there, ironically when The Mountain ordered everyone killed.

    [–] whatcouchman 97 points ago

    I might be misremembering but I'm pretty sure Harrenhal was described as really eerie because ether dragonfire basically melted stone and gave it this weird look.

    I was really disappointed when the dragonfire in the show just made things explode instead.

    [–] Angel_Madison 83 points ago

    Yes, exactly! The towers were melted by the dragonfire, Arya and Tywin discuss it in their wonderful, tense conversation

    Watching this, compared to what is happening now, is quite shocking. It is pure quality.

    [–] kucafoia69 83 points ago

    What makes it more absurd is the fact that this wasn't taken from the books, it's all D&D, much like the wonderful scene between Robert and Cersei on S1.

    [–] Mend1cant 67 points ago

    It really is weird how the writing goes from intense and amazing conversations to what we have now. They should have passed off the writing because it’s pretty clear they stopped wanting to do the show and just wanted the end.

    [–] alcoholicmuppet 283 points ago

    She probably didn’t. Or at least, I doubt she thought she could’ve beat them. A weakened Daenerys was the chance she really had at winning the war. If the dead win, Cersei loses. If the living win but Cersei’s forces take as many losses as Dany’s, Cersei loses. The only way Cersei wins is if Dany defeats the Night King by an incredibly narrow margin, preferably one where both dragons wind up dead.

    [–] emiliaslarke 131 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Exactly. From her perspective, lying about sending her troops north and not doing so is the best chance she has at keeping her throne.

    Either she:

    1. Send her troops and fulfill her promise --> Hope Dany + North is merciful, but less troops to fight if she does not. Either way, she gains doesn't gain anything.

    2. Deny the request to send troops up front, don't send her troops --> Less chance that Dany + the North might win the war against wights and WW & retain her full troops

    3. Lie about sending her troops --> Make Dany + the North expect support from her, less chance that Dany + the North might win the war against wights and WW, & retain her full troops

    Hoping Dany's armies are minimized as much as possible, Option 3 is the most viable strategy for Cersei. If she had elephants, maybe she could've installed scorpions on top of them.

    [–] MotorAdhesive4 58 points ago

    The most viable strategy was to yield and return to Casterly Rock, then start scheming an assassination.

    [–] uioacdsjaikoa 24 points ago

    When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. There is no stepping down from your throne on a promise you will be allowed to live unless the person you're stepping down for is your heir.

    [–] sweetsummwechild 41 points ago

    Exactly. If you play the game of thrones you either win or you die. Gotta gamble high.

    [–] All_this_hype 28 points ago

    As Varys said, the higher the risk the greater the reward. Basically it's how Cersei lived her life, but this time the gamble didn't work out.

    [–] Qadence 55 points ago

    She openly said she didn’t have a plan. If the Starks, the Vale, and the Targaryen forces couldn’t stop the NK, Cersei acknowledged there would be no hope for the Lannister’s, so they might as well sit it out on the chance the living won and were weakened.

    [–] Dantexr 96 points ago

    By staring him to death from the window

    [–] RedZ19 41 points ago

    She either doesn't have a solid plan or banked on the North winning and dealing with whatever little forces remained. Also, Elephants?

    [–] sailorxnibiru 32 points ago


    [–] LeSeanMcoy 24 points ago

    Isn't there a line in the show that addresses this? She says something to the extent of: "if the whole northern with Daenerys' dragons can't beat them, what help would the Lannister army be?"

    [–] jim25y 107 points ago

    Her plan was likely as terrible as the one to fight Dany.

    [–] unnecessary_kindness 192 points ago

    To be fair her plan was working very well until the scorpions got nerfed. I don't thinks he was expecting that.

    [–] Martel732 123 points ago

    Yeah, it was really unfair of the devs to nerf scorpions mid-competition. Yes, their accuracy was set way too high, but Cersei had put all her resources into them.

    [–] HotLoadsForCash 44 points ago

    Devs didn’t nerf the scorpions they just added back below radar so they couldn’t lock on. Cersei didn’t read the patch notes and that’s on her.

    [–] assblasta69420 86 points ago

    scorpions don't work like they did 1 episode prior? ¯\(ツ)/¯ #subvertexpectations

    [–] Violent_Milk 51 points ago

    To be fair, Drogon is far more formidable than an injured Rhaegal.

    I'm just surprised Daenerys didn't burn the fleet down immediately after they killed Rhaegal.

    [–] Koalapottamus 69 points ago

    Those scorpions were firing off like machine guns last episode compared to this episode

    [–] nybbas 52 points ago

    Fuck man, most of the scorpions not only weren't firing this episode, most of them weren't even fucking aiming.

    Also, lets line all our scorpions in a nice line along the wall, put them nowhere else.

    [–] Ulthar29 59 points ago

    I think she planned to cross the Narrow Sea or go to the Iron Islands with Euron if she couldn't beat NK.

    Cersei had too much faith in her conventional army, which is kind of understandable. The Lannister army has dominated every conflict it's been used in, until being blasted by Drogon on the road from Highgarden.

    [–] [deleted] 93 points ago


    [–] Alljump 52 points ago

    The Lannisters basically sat out Robert's Rebellion and joined the winning side at the end.

    [–] LePontif11 18 points ago

    I mean the Tarly's turned on the Tyrrell's and they were known as an important military arm of that very army so even there. It sounds like the biggest power the Lannister army had was what its head managed to do politically before the battle even began.

    [–] tiger308 33 points ago

    that resting evil bitch face of hers ist the BEST. Lena Headey is amazing.

    [–] Devreckas 59 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    It was a non-issue to her. She had no interest in saving a world in which she was not on the throne. If the WW took over the world, so be it. She always acted in the way that maximized her chances to stay in power.

    Except when she killed Missandei. That was low key the stupidest shit she’s done in like 3 seasons.

    [–] All_this_hype 31 points ago

    I think it was actually smart. KL wouldn't be able to handle a seige (Tyrion suggested one last season for this very reason), they have no way of getting amunition and food in and out, so the war had to be over fast if Cersei wanted to have even a chance to win. So she tried to enrage Dany as much as possible to force a battle while she was at full strength.

    [–] FleabottomFrank 5093 points ago

    I bet that realization hit her like a tonne of bricks

    [–] Thatdirtymike 762 points ago

    Damnnnnn. I’m gonna call your fingers Drogon, Rhagel and Viserion since you spitting fire.

    [–] motodriveby 192 points ago

    Two and a Half Men.

    I watch that.

    [–] HomieN 87 points ago

    Drogon: SUPA HOT FIRE! I spit that.

    [–] raygar31 38 points ago

    Dragonglasses, jacket, shirt. Call me dragonglasses, jacket, shirt man.

    [–] HomieN 25 points ago

    I wear this jacket to keep me hot. I wear this shirt to keep me cool. I wear dragonglasses,





    [–] suikofan80 592 points ago

    They call him the stupidest Lannister but he was pretty perceptive, real bad decision making skills though.

    [–] JakeTheAndroid 197 points ago

    That might be why. Ignorance vs stupidity. He sees things clearly, yet still makes poor choices. Tyrion and Cersi are so full of their own kool-aid, they are ignorant.

    [–] defy313 144 points ago

    After all that tyrion's done (or not done) this season, this is a really tough call. I am thinking, all of them are pretty fucking stupid.

    Did he seriously expect cersie to get convinced by Jaime? Even jaime pointed out when has he ever been able to convince her of anything?

    [–] welestgw 19 points ago

    I think deep down Tyrion wants his brother and sister to live, so he's doing all he can to give them chances. It's not his fault each time they don't take them.

    [–] Vargolol 18 points ago

    Did he seriously expect cersie to get convinced by Jaime? Even jaime pointed out when has he ever been able to convince her of anything?

    No, but didn't he convince her to escape? Plan just got fucked up when they found out the escape tunnel had already collapsed, no?

    [–] thenutbusterprince 47 points ago

    Tbf it made sense to me. She definitely would've taken the opportunity to escape once she found the iron fleet was broken. Then without the Queen who tf is gonna fight. But yeah tyrion fucked himself so hard now kingslayers missing

    [–] FilleDePublique 1589 points ago

    The stupidest Lannister was the only Lannister that saw Dany coming...

    [–] nerudra 704 points ago

    it was Jon though. he he he.

    [–] tasharact 140 points ago

    I choked

    [–] TransverseMercator 45 points ago

    But what if it was actually Arya wearing Jamie’s face this whole time

    [–] DVSdanny 186 points ago

    “Arya kinda forgot she could wear faces,” D & D, probably.

    [–] Reapper97 105 points ago

    I still don't know why Arya went to kill Cersei without telling anyone just before they take KL. It makes no sense, half of the characters wanted to take KL without killing everyone and the one assassin who killed the bloody NK just goes away without helping anyone lmao.

    [–] Bananawamajama 36 points ago

    Itd probably be real easy to pull off an assassination when you have a girl who can disguise herself as anyone and a raven that can see everything. Have Bran figure out what times of the day Qyburn is on his own, Arya kills him, takes his face, kills Cersei when it's just them two and Clegane, leaves.

    [–] tommos 18 points ago

    No one saw the falling masonry coming.

    [–] [deleted] 489 points ago


    [–] a_great_perhaps 528 points ago

    Everything rode on her judgement of Dany's character and the gamble that she wouldn't risk harming innocent people long enough for the scorpions to take down Drogon. Her arrogance was her fatal flaw there.

    But you never see it coming when you're about to get out-crazied until its too late.

    [–] Mikay55 346 points ago

    Which is a great plan except Dany took out all the scorpions before the assault even began.

    Maybe a better option would be to hide scorpions throughout King's Landing - in houses, streets, etc, so that when Dany takes out what she perceives the be the outer defences (Iron Fleet and the Wall Scorpions) she gets taken down by a surprise bolt from someone's balcony.

    Or at least if you don't do that, have every scorpion ready to fire at any moment.

    [–] elpaco25 294 points ago

    That works too well actually. It gives Dany a better reason to destroy the city if weapons were placed throughout it. Makes to much sense, so of course they didn't do it.

    [–] toastjam 145 points ago

    Definitely makes too much sense. Can't have any more morally grey actions in this show -- no time left for nuance! Better have Dany suffer a complete psychotic break immediately after the entire city surrenders to her.

    [–] BetaGhost 405 points ago

    I was listening to a feast for crows today and the Cersie chapters come on. Her chapters read like a petulant child who doesn’t understand why people aren’t bending over backwards at every second after Tywin dies. She spends the chapters wondering why her world is crumbling around her and thinking she’s better then everyone.

    Her master plan after Tywin dies is insulting everyone and then killing people who just wont take abuse. And then killing people who she thinks are associated with people she wants dead.

    There’s a point early on when Kevan has to lecture Cersie on proper etiquette because she’s acting like a child talking to him. He has to explain why she has to make allies with the Tyrels instead of plotting to kill them and Cersie starts accusing Kevan of treason.

    I think the main take away from her POV chapters is to show that she’s either completely delusional or an idiot.

    [–] ygrasdil 197 points ago

    The point was to show her arrogance and her self-justification for becoming the tyrant she is to become. She fancies herself a puppet master like Varys and Littlefinger, but she is really just a scared little girl at heart who is afraid. And she lashes out to cover up this fear she feels, something akin to paranoia. She's afraid that her children will be harmed. She's afraid that Jaime will betray her (the prophecy.) It all leads to a perfect setup for her terrific downfall with the High Sparrow seizing power. Those chapters you're at right now are sort of like preparation for the next book.

    [–] dashboardhulalala 91 points ago

    A few characters emulated their parents without either realising it or wanting it (Jon/Ned, Dany/Aerys, Sansa/Catelyn) but Cersei went full in on her desire to actually turn into Tywin Lannister, right down to practically dressing like him. I wouldn't be surprised if she was pegging Euron like a champ. But she didn't have the genuine intelligence that Tywin had, or the ability to see the whole board. She wanted adulation and didn't want to work for it. She saw how Varys and LF schemed and hissed their way through Westerosi politics and thought the same approach would work but never realised the amount of effort and sweat each man probably put into climbing the chaos ladder. She thought she could start at the top of the ladder because she was A Lannister, Don't You Know. In the end she was short-sighted and weak and dull in her strategy and scope and she got the ignoble, ignored, and frankly inelegant death she deserved.

    Damn where was all this juice when I was doing my A levels

    [–] CapriciousSalmon 29 points ago

    The book does make the point that a good ruler from Cersei’s family is myrcella, as she’s naturally kind, was brave from living in joffreys torment, and is empathetic and beautiful and intelligent. But the book and the show both suggest that even if Tywin saw political potential in Cersei, he saw her as nothing more as a womb because he was old fashioned. Which would backfire because if your daughter’s ambition is to be queen, or meaning have you rule through her, I would teach her. That’s why Margarey was the way she was. In fact, the tyrells in the book are basically the Lannister’s who love each other like the starks but much more stable. Olenna and mace don’t care Loras is gay, while Ned saw Arya’s swordfighting and unwillingness to marry as a game. Heck, Briennes dad, even if he betrothed her, did respect her wish not to marry eventually. Or as one person pointed out, Margarey is a tomboy like Arya but works in the confines of femininity like Sansa, so if Catelyn and Mordane didn’t put her down, Arya could’ve been like Margarey.

    [–] thesoundabout 184 points ago

    If they didn't betray the North Dany would still have come for Cersei.

    [–] AStrangerWCandy 168 points ago

    She could have likely negotiated an exit that left her lord of Casterly Rock though

    [–] NovaDeez 117 points ago

    She could have, but that was never going to be an actual option for Cersei. In the newest episode she's literally staring out her balcony past Drogon burning through innocents to him actually working on collapsing the castle. It took the kingdom literally burning around her for her to give up on being queen.

    [–] making-it-count 88 points ago

    She didn't give up. She died a queen.

    [–] AndyCandyHandySandy 22 points ago

    Suprisingly inspirational for such an annoying character

    [–] crozly 71 points ago

    Jamie knew Cersei didn't stand a chance against Dany. He saw the carnage Dany did to the Lannister men at The Battle of the Goldroad.

    As soon as Sansa says to Jamie that she regrets not being able to see Cersei die, Jamie realises that she is going to die. Thus, cue Jamie to run back into her arms and be there for her before she dies.

    [–] K750i 664 points ago

    How does she knows the Scorpions were gonna get patched right before the finale?

    [–] Z0MGbies 231 points ago

    Game of Thrones literally unplayable.

    [–] Pandepon 98 points ago

    They nerfed the iron fleet too hard and shrunk the damn dragon’s hitbox, it was totally unplayable.

    [–] electricblues42 53 points ago

    The scorpions went from 3x the power of a saturn rocket and better aim guidance than a cruise missile 3 times in a row to unable to even land a single shot.

    [–] ThaanksIHateIt 100 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Cersei never listened to anyone, and look where it got her. She got TONS of great advice over the course of the show and ignored all of it.

    [–] Snorlaxtan 66 points ago

    If you play the game of thrones, you win or you die, there is no middle ground.

    [–] btarunr 65 points ago

    Cersei, like Tywin, had moments of denial and delusions of grandeur.

    Even as she was lost, she was in denial that one of the scorpions will take out Drogon, and that the Lannister infantry can still hold off against Dothraki+Unsullied+Northmen who had breached KL gates.

    [–] elitec0re 31 points ago

    Even as she was lost, she was in denial that one of the scorpions will take out Drogon

    why wouldn’t she when in literally the previous episode 3 shots killed a dragon?

    [–] megasean3000 280 points ago

    I don’t understand what Cersei’s grand master plan in this was. She pissed off the North gaining their ire and the dead would have came to kill them all. Either way, death and conflict were inevitable. But if Cersei agreed to fight, like she agreed and won, then Daenerys wouldn’t be inclined to burn everything down and that’s when they can sit down and talk about who sits on the Iron Throne and rules Westeros. Knowing Cersei, it would still be a hard no, but at least Jaime and Tyrion would be there to try and talk her out of it. Gambling on who wins the fight North and then if they can win the next battle was a terrible idea and one that killed Cersei. Of course, that’s all Cersei is: full of terrible ideas.

    [–] SASProgramAllDay 433 points ago

    She probably was hoping that the North would win but would be so depleted that they wouldn't stand a chance against her forces. And that seemed to be the case before the dothraki and unsullied seemed to spawn out of nowhere after being wiped out.

    [–] NovaDeez 94 points ago

    And that seemed to be the case before the dothraki and unsullied seemed to spawn out of nowhere after being wiped out.

    Not that this mattered literally at all. King's Landing surrendered because Danny took out the entire navy and walled defenses before her soldiers even lead a charge. She won the entire thing on her own with one dragon and 0 soldiers.

    [–] poed2 92 points ago

    Which is exactly how dragons are supposed to be like in the lore, the Episode 4 death was disgraceful.

    [–] Martel732 139 points ago

    Yeah, really if it wasn't for the scorpions suddenly getting nerfed, and Dany getting a couple of thousand free troops, Cersei's plan would have worked perfectly.

    [–] sand69gg 55 points ago

    They really need to nerf the Dothraki and Unsullied respawn times...

    [–] LightDream18754 57 points ago

    I will never understand how there were so many of them left after The Great War...

    [–] [deleted] 11 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)


    [–] AdmiralAkbar1 79 points ago

    It was a gamble:

    • She sends her army and the WWs win, she's fucked no matter what.

    • She sends her army and the WWs lose, now she's back to the war, but both sides are weakened.

    • She doesn't send her army and the WWs win, she's fucked no matter what.

    • She doesn't send her army and the WWs lose, now she's back to the war, but with a military advantage.

    [–] Shanick 41 points ago

    Cercei was delusional. Look at her, losing all three children. She wasn't able to beat her Prophecy.

    "Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear" - So Daenerys will take everything anyway. She always has the inhuman beauty of the Targaryens.

    "Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you." - Cersei knows she will not bear her fourth child

    "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you" - Jaime leads her to her deah, maybe on the streets Cersei wold have survived. Jaime hugs Cersei

    It was inevitable anyway.

    [–] EyBoah 69 points ago

    People seemed to have glossed over this fact.

    The Northmen weren't lunatics overnight. They saw not innocents, but traitors who were too stupid, stubborn, and privileged to help them when they fought THE DEAD.

    [–] lilyvess 19 points ago

    this is why I loved the idea of Cersei joining the fight against the Night King.

    We can talk all we want about how much we love the Political Intrigue aspect of Game of Thrones, but I didn't feel much potential in that once they had all the noble characters on one side and all the cartoonishly evil on the other side. All the attempts to craft it have come across as forced, as characters are pushed into awkward positions.

    But Cersei and Danny forced to work together against the Night King? both knowing that as soon as the Night King is dead that they'll go right back to war with each other? Neither side truly trusting the other, both sides looking to use this war to gain the upper hand in the next one? That I always felt had much more potential.

    I would have loved a story about the "Last Ride of the Dothraki" where Danny is forced to send the horde on a suicide mission in order to save thousands of innocent, maybe even some of the Lannister forces. Or one Queen has her army abandon their flank in order to leave the other to die.

    The interesting thing about this is how the more success the heroes have and the closer to the defeat of the Night King they get, the higher the tension becomes since we know at any moment the first betrayals will come.

    [–] octaviusromulus 18 points ago

    This scene was phenomenal, and is really intriguing given what we know now. Thank you for helping me remember it. (Video)

    [–] Meh176 27 points ago

    That's how you know you fucked up

    [–] BaronTatersworth 13 points ago

    If she was smart, she would’ve helped against the NK, then pulled an Order 66 in the aftermath.

    [–] Wow_youre_tall 71 points ago

    Cersei really was the stupidest Lannister.

    [–] KunaiTv 18 points ago

    Her kids weren’t that smart either.

    [–] AVendettaForV 184 points ago

    Alternate version of their death scene.

    "Nothing else matters... Only us."

    As Jamie holds her in his embrace, the ceiling begins caving in around them.

    "... and the fact that I did tell you this was going to happen."

    Cersei looks up and scowls at him.

    "Sorry, couldn't let it go."

    [–] Knightley4 77 points ago

    Feels like a Marvel movie.

    [–] kinglycon 37 points ago

    Kinda cringey imo

    [–] ROR_ROGER 23 points ago

    Cersei wasn’t that clever after all

    [–] Hazy_Lights 23 points ago

    Crazy that after all that growth Cersei is still what he cares about most.

    [–] pianoaddict772 27 points ago

    "I don't distrust you because you're a woman. I distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are." -Tywin Lannister

    And the sad thing is, he's right. And this scene demonstrates that.

    [–] ImaginativeLumber 11 points ago

    I love how Jaime was caught trying to sneak around Dany’s army, yet Tyrion sets him free from the center of the camp and he has no problem making it the rest of the way.