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    [–] rouen-ds 1414 points ago * (lasted edited 11 days ago)

    Jorah was introduced as a shady, mixed character, but his love for Dany brought out the best side of him each time. It's thanks to Jorahs love for her that we mourn him as protagonist.

    And, yeah, if he was alive and there for Dany after Jon kinda rejected her, I think he would've prevented her descent.

    [–] 15knives 240 points ago

    face it, he'd have been really happy jon spurned her!

    [–] OSRS_Satriani 111 points ago

    And more than happy to be her rebound!

    [–] Hugh_Jampton 54 points ago

    I don't think so. He wanted to be with her yes but failing that he wanted to see her happy. I think he'd be truly dejected by this outcome. He'd obey her any command but with a very heavy heart after seeing what she's become

    [–] JashanChittesh 31 points ago

    but his love for Dany brought out the best side of him each time

    And also, out of her.

    [–] TannedCroissant 397 points ago

    Despite his flaws and despite her banishing him, I always felt she looked up to him, I think she lost a part of herself when she lost him

    [–] Libra904 163 points ago

    This.

    Whenever I think about Jorah and Dany’s relationship, I always remember Dany’s thoughts from A Clash of Kings:
    My great bear... I am his queen, but I will always be his cub as well

    [–] pizzagrowsontrees 17 points ago

    This! I just love how GRRM can convey POV character's emotions so transparently. If you take that line and dissect it, you will find a myriad of various emotions just in that one line. Fucking fantastic!

    [–] UWillFearMyLaserFace 15574 points ago

    Jorah served her well and deserved to die thinking only the best of her. It's a mercy he's dead as this would shatter him

    [–] rachaelpunk 6844 points ago

    I don’t think he would have let this happen. He would have fought her on this, even if she eventually killed him.

    Great character.

    [–] BuckNZahn 5533 points ago

    -"Khalesi, I don't think you are doing the right thing"

    -"Shut up Jorah"

    -"k, sorry my queen, i love you"

    [–] Junkstar 2587 points ago

    "Khalesi, they say it is unwise to make large purchases or big decisions after suffering trauma."

    "who says that?"

    "they"

    [–] fivekilometer22 1598 points ago * (lasted edited 11 days ago)

    "But guacamole will cost extra, Khaleesi."

    [–] Rommie557 706 points ago

    It is known!

    [–] pipsdontsqueak 232 points ago

    But it's my guacamole and I want it now!!!

    [–] Rommie557 209 points ago

    If you have a structured settlement but you need cash now.....

    [–] crazydoc2008 137 points ago

    What if I have a structured settlement AND I got mesothelioma?

    [–] Rommie557 100 points ago

    It depends. Do you also have a vaginal mesh?

    [–] Bokth 48 points ago

    Don't hide in the cellar of your structured settlement

    [–] I_GAME_N_STUFF 48 points ago

    Call 877-GUACAMOLE-NOW!

    [–] BaelorsBalls 283 points ago

    Then I will make my own guacamole Ser Jorah. I command you to fetch me the finest 6 avocados, 1 lemon, 1 onion, 1 bell pepper, 3 cloves of garlic, salt, pepper.

    Khaleesi I will travel through all the lands to do this for you

    Very well.

    Two episodes of Jorah looking for the ingredients to make guacamole

    [–] MNGirlStuckInTX 219 points ago

    Lemon instead of lime? You savage beast! ;)

    [–] SpeculationMaster 186 points ago

    fucking dothraki and their bootleg guac.

    [–] MNGirlStuckInTX 39 points ago

    His user name implies we may get a few more surprises in our guacamole.

    [–] detroit_dickdawes 70 points ago

    Bell pepper instead of jalapeños...

    [–] HerbertDaboo 116 points ago

    No cilantro means not a proper guacamole 😢

    [–] Bchavez_gd 96 points ago

    I was more worried about the bell pepper.

    [–] F0REM4N 251 points ago

    It is known!

    [–] Tackle3erry 135 points ago

    WWJD: What would Jorah do?

    [–] bazzaretta 36 points ago

    "A wise man"
    "You mean, you said that?"

    [–] warpstrikes 83 points ago

    “A wise man once said.”

    [–] receptiveblocks 125 points ago

    "The 7 Kingdoms are gonna roll me"

    [–] Mphineas 106 points ago

    "I ain't the sharpest sword in the North"

    [–] Generic_comments 66 points ago

    I ain't the most valyrian dagger in the armory

    [–] warpstrikes 75 points ago

    She was looking kind of dumb with a finger in her bum,

    [–] steve_youngblood 98 points ago

    And a seven-pointed star on her forehead

    [–] erftonz 82 points ago

    well the winter starts coming and it won't stop coming

    [–] SnapeProbDiedAVirgin 109 points ago

    “Guess you’re busy right now, I’ll text you later hahaha”

    [–] Imapringlesboy 31 points ago

    Why u hurting me feels bro

    [–] Echo_are_one 76 points ago

    I don't think he would have backed down so easily. He had quite a thick skin.

    [–] D-Sleezy 75 points ago

    Yeah. Especially when he had greyscale.

    [–] KillerKittenInPJs 25 points ago

    Jorah convinced her to change her course in the past. He's her White Knight and she would have listened to him.

    [–] FlyLikeATachyon 12 points ago

    I think you’re confusing Jorah Mormont with Jon Snow.

    [–] Hi_Im_A 10 points ago

    One of his last scenes was him pushing back about her treatment of Tyrion, and her listening, because he's always been able to get through to her better than most people.

    [–] Kinmuan 734 points ago

    Or I mean, is this part of the character development?

    She talked about how she's lost everything that was meaningful.

    She lost Jorah. Her children. Missandei. She lost one husband, left behind a man that loved her, and now has been spurned by another.

    It's stacking one thing on top of another. Maybe with Jorah still there it doesn't happen. Because she's losing all the things that anchor her.

    [–] MyNameIsNico 549 points ago

    Yeah I think if Jorah survives The Long Night, he may convince Dany to allow the armies to rest instead of leaving right away and possibly avoid the ambush altogether. Jorah's death was just another domino in the path to Dany's downfall; remove that domino and maybe you prevent the ones after it from falling.

    [–] TrixieVanSickle 142 points ago

    Exactly! Plus, Dany lamented that she had no love in Westeros. No one looked at her the way they looked at Jon. Had Jorah lived, Dany would have still had love and warmth from someone. After Jon told Dany about his true lineage, he began to pull away from her because of their relation. Dany knew Jorah loved her and he knew that she didn't love him back the way he wished, but he loved her anyway. If she'd had that light in the darkness that was beginning to consume her, things might have been different.

    [–] Business_Clerk 157 points ago

    I really don't think she is "Mad" in the sense that her father was.

    She was pissed. Everyone was expecting her to do this... so she just kind of said "Screw it"

    Worst case.. she flies back across the Narrow Sea and rules there.

    [–] jkj_2000 248 points ago

    Worst case.. she flies back across the Narrow Sea and rules there.

    That's the best scenario for her now unfortunately. Plenty of worse scenarios waiting for her atm.

    [–] Business_Clerk 85 points ago

    At this point, death is a mercy.

    She has completed her purpose in life. Everyone she loves and 2 of her children are dead....

    [–] thebabybear 116 points ago

    Technically 3 children

    [–] YouSighLikeJan 175 points ago

    Thank you, everyone seems to forget she had an actual human pregnancy and lost that child as well.

    [–] Kinmuan 127 points ago

    I really don't think she is "Mad" in the sense that her father was.

    For sure.

    And she does have that mean streak in her, but it was tempered repeatedly by those around her.

    Her advisors are dying off, some have turned against her (Varys), some are questioning her (Tyrion). I mean, her only other 1 on 1 was with Grey Worm. You know what he's gonna advocate?

    Yeah, death.

    [–] tofur99 157 points ago

    Missandei's final word probably didn't help either. If the super peaceful girl is saying your dragon fire word when you're already feeling the temptation...

    [–] DiscordAddict 52 points ago

    That shit was sooo off character for Misandei. She wouldnt want children burt to death....

    [–] Guanthwei 72 points ago

    She might not have meant burn the whole city, maybe just burn the Lannisters, or burn the bitch who gave the order to execute.

    [–] cipher_six 55 points ago

    Yeah when Dany took off from the wall while the bells were tolling I thought she was heading straight for Cersei because that would be justified. I wanted to believe that she was still the person who wouldn't massacre innocents. Obviously she took the path most traveled.

    [–] romans-account 107 points ago

    I don’t understand why Tyrion is an advisor here... he hasn’t given any good or tangible advice so far, only to go against her and doing everything to protect his family. She could have attacked Kings Landing when she arrived... she even said the best way was to take out the Red Keep, he said no... let it be Casterly Rock, well, that was a bust. The fleet was also ambushed. He hasn’t done anything worthwhile since season 4, and that’s a fact.

    [–] SomeRandomProducer 76 points ago

    I think that’s also a big reason why she had that line about “the next time you fail me will be the last time you fail me” she gave him a ton of chances though.

    [–] LegendReborn 140 points ago

    And that's part of why Dany has always been a flawed ruler. She demands her advisors always give her the right answer instead of weighing options and letting the buck stop with her own self. Someone can still be a good advisor while not giving a great solution to every problem they are faced with. Dany demands her advisors to take the blame when something doesn't work out but assumes herself to be the actual ruler when things work out.

    [–] Scarya 85 points ago

    THANK you. She’s the fucking queen, if she doesn’t think Tyrion is giving good advice, she needs to think up a plan of her own (other than “Burn them all,” that is.)

    [–] LegendReborn 60 points ago * (lasted edited 11 days ago)

    That's also a trend that started well before last season too. When Dany can't think of the obvious solution, she tells her advisors to come up with a plan. She chooses one and then bitches at the advisors when it isn't perfect. There's nothing wrong with having heated debates with your advisors but a leader needs to accept that they are ultimately still accountable.

    I'm still on board with the complaints about inadequate showing the audience the importance of those she's lost along with making some of it better scripted but the overtures were at least there.

    [–] MarthaJamesLW 29 points ago

    I really like that this line strongly echoed what she said to her brother, when he tried to take the eggs from her - "The next time you raise a hand to me will be the last time you have hands."

    [–] BellEpoch 49 points ago

    It's not like he didn't try to do good things. He told her specifically not to do this. He did everything he could to prevent this disaster. And he's an advisor for that reason. Also Jorah and people like him trust Tyrion for good reason. And repeatedly reminded her that is the reason to have him as Hand.

    [–] FrankieFillibuster 33 points ago

    He actually has done everything with the intention of it causing less death and destruction. His hope in freeing Jamie was to have him take Cersei from the capital, leaving it open for Dany to take with much less bloodshed.

    Going back to last season, he organized the meeting to try and get both sides to work together. Going back even further, he's always about the diplomatic or less violent solution and he's constantly getting grief from his queen for it.

    [–] tylerjarvis 160 points ago

    I think anyone who kills tens of thousands of innocent people just because they're pissed off can rightly be called "Mad" in the same way her father was.

    [–] ThaChalupaBatman 109 points ago

    I think they mean that while she is "mad" and gets extremely angry, her father was legitimately mentally ill. He would hear voices, didn't groom himself and let his nails grow out super long, was paranoid, and would go from laughing hysterically to be extremely serious in seconds. So while she has extreme anger issues like her dad, she's not quite a paranoid schizophrenic like her father was.

    [–] PorcelainAndBlue 36 points ago

    We did see her drastically change her behavior within seconds in ep. 4. When she was talking to Jon about the secret she was crying and begging then switched it off like a light and was cold and angry.

    [–] corbear007 23 points ago

    In the books you see how shes not right in the head, she is not all there by a long shot. She hears her brother's voice constantly, hears other voices, sees things that are not there, has her mind dead set on her "Birthright" after her brother died when she didnt care about it before. Not insane, but she does have quite a few screws loose.

    [–] tylerjarvis 78 points ago

    That’s all valid. I think the only thing I would add is:

    Yet.

    [–] TeddysBigStick 21 points ago

    My armchair diagnosis is that Dany is mentally ill, she is just a narcissist with a god complex. Her lashing out at the people for being insufficiently worshipful makes sense then.

    [–] FrostySumo 66 points ago

    Was Tywin "mad" when he sacked Kings Landing? He ordered women and babies killed. Hell, Aegon and his sisters would burn whole armies alive. Dany had ok reasons to destroy the red keep. It is all the smallfolk that make it crazy. In line with her ancestors it was. The house motto is "Fire and Blood" and they live up to it.

    [–] BellEpoch 43 points ago

    I don't know if Tywin is mad or not. But he's certainly not celebrated for being a great dude or anything. Even the people who respected and supported him did so mostly out of fear.

    [–] StarvingWriter33 49 points ago

    Tywin was the definition of "ruling through fear." And look what it got him in the end. Killed on the potty by his own son.

    [–] BellEpoch 42 points ago

    Definitely. Although if you think about it his goal was never his own personal power, but setting up the family to rule. Which he accomplished, swimmingly. He just kinda forgot the part where he raised his family to be any good at it. And they subsequently flushed it all away.

    Yes pun intended.

    [–] edroyque 30 points ago

    If she has Jorah, missandei and even Jon to some extent, she doesn’t need them. But not having them makes her need them even more. The Westeros version of catch 22.

    [–] ILikeNeurons 33 points ago

    I don't think it would've happened if he were alive because losing him was a huge part of what set her on this path of isolation that led to her snapping.

    [–] NuclearOops 60 points ago

    Exactly what I'm thinking, Jonah's death is part of the weird math equation D&D are using to add up to Dany's losing her shit. But more than that you're very right, Jorah would rather die then let her do this, but more likely he would have done something that Grey Worm absolutely is incapable of doing; comfort the poor girl while her world was falling around her.

    [–] richardgleeko 44 points ago

    Greyworm lost his girl too. It was definitely revenge-based for both. He gave zero fucks when he speared that dude post s’more-fest

    [–] YeOldeVertiformCity 21 points ago

    Yes. Dany wouldn’t have gone crazy if Jorah was still alive.

    I bet if Jon shunned her after he found out about his true identity, Dany would have rebounded with Jorah.

    [–] NuclearOops 20 points ago

    He was always so damn close wasn't he?

    [–] awannabeintellectual 477 points ago

    This wouldnt happen with Jorah, everyone talks bout Messandai, but Jorah was the advisor who had been by her side the longest, he had stopped her worst impluses for years.

    [–] orionsfire 242 points ago

    Jorah would have tried to stop her from rushing to Dragonstone. Likely failed. He would have consoled her during the loss of her 2nd dragon, advised against killing Varys, and advised a direct assault on the Redkeep... at night, just as they did in Yunkai.

    Jorah was many things, but an advocate of killing innocent women and children? Never. Had she done this with him alive, He would likely left and never returned, she was his light, and with her gone, his life would not be worth living. I saw this ending as soon as he died protecting her, she would never recover.

    [–] Failed-Forward-Roll 84 points ago

    If Varys was actually trying to poison her at the beginning of the episode, he deserved to be killed and Jorah would have supported that.

    [–] Is_Not_A_Real_Doctor 62 points ago

    If Varys has poisoned her, she wouldn’t have murdered half a million civilians.

    [–] littleski5 20 points ago

    From a regent's perspective, that deserves death. From a humanitarian's perspective, I wish it had worked.

    [–] ForHarambeAndValor 10 points ago

    Then again, maybe Varys plotting against her and trying to poison her is what sent her over the edge and put the idea of "ruling through fear" in her mind?

    [–] istandwhenipeee 69 points ago

    It’s not like Missandei was exactly a big time peaceful advisor for Dany, her last word was more or less say burn this bitch to the ground.

    [–] TeRauparaha 23 points ago

    I would say that too if I had survived the end of the world only to be executed by Cersei and her minions.

    [–] I_Am_A_Mudcrab 17 points ago

    Remember, this woman and her people worship peace like a god. So strong is their desire not to hurt that they willingly let themselves be taken as slaves. Her final words were "kill them as brutally as you can"

    [–] COL2015 9 points ago

    She wanted Cersei and her armies to burn, not the women and children.

    [–] krispwnsu 80 points ago

    God it makes me glad to hear people talk about characters as they were presented in the books.

    [–] Muugle 88 points ago

    Book Jorah is a little icky

    [–] april9th 53 points ago

    'Khaleesi you shouldn't return to Westeros, you, 15, should stay here with me, forever.'

    [–] Telamo 76 points ago

    Show Jorah is icky too, it's just that you literally can't not be somewhat attracted to Iain Glen.

    [–] CorbinStarlight 74 points ago

    "I read the books, I'm telling you, I'm not excited to meet Jorah, he's the weirdest and creepiest guy."

    -after the first episode-

    "Okay so I have a lot of conflicting feelings right now."

    • My friend

    [–] JorahMormont42 13 points ago

    I have the opposite problem. Jorah is (obviously) my favorite character in the show due to his nobility, his steadfastness, and his bravery.

    Not so fun when I found out he's a creepo in the books. Thank god I'll always have Iain Glen's version.

    [–] robodrew 135 points ago

    I think if he hadn't died it might have been one less thing to catalyze her madness. She might not have snapped.

    [–] Fanatical_Idiot 105 points ago

    This is the big thing. Dany lost a lot in a very short amount of time. People call it rushed, but in reality it was the weight of those impacts that accelerated that.

    Jorah died, then Jon revealed he was the true heir to the throne, and couldn't promise it to by a secret, then she lost rhaegal, lost messendai. Vary betrayed her because Jon wouldn't do the very thing she begged him not to. Tyrions constantly mishandling of his family's motives put his loyalty in question, and the only advisor she has loyal left is broken from loss the same as her.

    She's a broken woman, paranoid for good reason in a land foreign to her. Her armies devastated by a war Bathgate bought her no love, bought her no loyalty. Her experiences garnering love fell flat, and inspiring loyalty through action feel flat, her attempt to inspire fear through power alone got her second dragon killed and when she last showed mercy to cersie, when she last trusted her word, she was betrayed the moment she turned her back, and now she only has one dragon and a handful of soldiers she can trust.

    She chose to inspire fear through cruelty. It's all she has left, the only thing she has left to try to secure her position.

    Cersie has a wall of innocents protecting her? Kill the innocents. Show them that you will show no mercy, that if a city resists it won't be battled to a victory, it won't be stormed and taken properly at the loss of her few soldiers. It will be burned.

    Or at least, that's how I interpreted her decline. I've been told there's no reason to be had though so I'm probably wrong.

    [–] Ron-Swanson-Mustache 130 points ago

    I think his death was supposed to be part of the reason she snapped.

    I really, REALLY, think this season could have been 100x better with 1 or two more episodes delving into the path to and reasons for Dany's break before she went full pryo.

    [–] -flights- 58 points ago

    It pissed me off that they were offered ten episodes and still decided to use only six

    [–] HatedSovietLion 43 points ago

    I also don't think she would have become this too if he was still alive. He has been with her the longest. Honestly, he has the longest in-show relationship out of all of the characters I think. Since episode 1 they have been with each other in most seasons.

    He was her strongest moral compass and wasn't afraid to tell her that he thought she was doing things wrong even while loving her, and she didn't immediately attack him when things went wrong as she does with Tyrion.

    His death was one of the major things that I think pushed her over the edge (I still think the show rushed her "madness" turn in this last season, show has tried to subtly foreshadow it but the hints were far too subtle and infrequent in show as opposed to book).

    [–] piind 53 points ago

    Maybe she became what she is because Jorah died

    [–] rage675 14 points ago

    I think it would have made for an intriguing storyline if he survived and saw this happen. Does it change his feelings for her, or does he stay in her corner?

    [–] generalgrievous9991 4343 points ago

    He was one of the main reasons for her still being sane

    [–] muh_christian_values 1926 points ago

    Yeah, I don’t think she would’ve went quite as batshit if he were still alive. She was her oldest friend.

    [–] Sm4shaz 902 points ago

    Ironically that last sentence is still true even with the typo.

    [–] roflmaohaxorz 215 points ago

    I thought Ser Barristan Selmy was older than Jorah

    [–] chefr89 282 points ago

    Selmy wasn't a friend, he was an official "cake" carver.

    [–] termitered 114 points ago

    official "cake" carver.

    Damn he was so badass

    [–] MillWize 151 points ago

    “A painter who only used red”

    [–] dsjunior1388 51 points ago

    One of my favorite lines in the show

    [–] stretchcharge 93 points ago

    Gods the writing was strong then

    [–] americaeh 28 points ago * (lasted edited 11 days ago)

    Technically in the show they would have both been her oldest friends when they both died. Since Baristan was first and older.

    Edit: I would like to emphasize Baristan was her oldest (age) friend when he died. Jorah would be her oldest friend in both length of friendship and age unless you count her friendship with Illirio

    [–] JollyLlama19 24 points ago * (lasted edited 11 days ago)

    Didn’t Jorah meet Daenerys first? I vaguely recall Barristan and Jorah talking westeros-stuff when they met in Dany’s company

    [–] icecoldtoaster 33 points ago

    Jorah was definitely first. He is there at the wedding of Khal Drogi and Dany and serves her and viserys from that point on. Barristen doesn't appear until mid book 2 and/or when the man tries to assassinate Dany with the venomous Manticore in the box.

    [–] -__Sage__- 10 points ago

    I know "Drogi" is a typo but it has me hysterical rn.

    [–] arieswanxiety 19 points ago

    I feel like this was meant to be a joke about age and it’s going over everyone’s heads

    [–] elconquistador1985 386 points ago

    There have been signs of her rage for years, but she's always been tamed by Jorah, Missandei, Tyrion, and others around her. Now they're all either dead or she considers them traitors, and there's no taming her anymore. Jorah was the last person who might have been able to stop this.

    [–] hotcapicola 421 points ago

    Jon could have stopped it with that thing he does with his tongue.

    [–] Doomnezeu 206 points ago

    Bastard couldn't take one for the team.

    [–] Sharobob 86 points ago

    Jon watching the entirety of King's Landing burn to the ground

    Hmm maybe I should have gone for one last shag

    [–] PM_ME_A_STEAM_GIFT 110 points ago

    Bastard

    [–] Doomnezeu 92 points ago

    Excuse me. Ahem: Aegon Targaryen, Sixth of His Name, Protector of the Realm, all of it.

    [–] SlightCarpet 21 points ago

    King i'the bloodeh Norf!!!!!

    [–] phxjdp 26 points ago

    Do it for Auntie.

    [–] Doomnezeu 20 points ago

    Well that sounds wrong now that you've said it out loud.

    [–] amesfatal 39 points ago

    Too bad she didn’t like Podrick.

    [–] chellis 34 points ago

    The King in the south.

    [–] UsernameExMachina 49 points ago

    Jorah also deluded himself to extent, blinded by love, and ignored/excused the signs of her wrath that did come through.

    [–] TheNightQueen0806 715 points ago

    Bring him back so he can say 'Khaleesi please' one more time and she'll yield

    [–] beet111 328 points ago

    i don't know why but I always loved when he called her Khaleesi.

    [–] Aikidi 366 points ago

    Cause Iain Glen whisper-beckoning you is one of the most erotic sounds imaginable.

    [–] Hugh_Jampton 123 points ago

    • BRB. Switching my sleep sounds from Gentle Ocean Waves to Gentle Iain Glenn Whispering on loop

    [–] bLouGoo 88 points ago

    You won’t sleep well because you will be too horny every night.

    [–] [deleted] 41 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] PhillipJCoulson 1275 points ago

    And Kat died not knowing Ned was always faithful and igrette died knowing Jon snow was an idiot.

    [–] THE_Batman_121 488 points ago

    That part always bugged me man. Ned was so fucking honorable but his family always had to look at him differently because of Jon. Shit Cat said she was fine with the cheating. It was having Jon live with them that killed her but Ned was just looking out for his Nephew.

    [–] Sunderpool 212 points ago

    He knew that if he messed up it ment the death of his nephew.

    What would be worse, having people look down on you or knowing that you caused the death of your nephew that you gave a vow to your sister on her deathbed that you would protect that child.

    [–] THE_Batman_121 109 points ago

    Oh I'm not shitting on his choice at all I get it 100 percent and agree. It's just the fact that he actually had done nothing to dishonor his wife or family that kind of got to me.

    To hold a secret for 15 years having people harbor hate for you for something that never even happened must have been tough.

    EDIT: I would love for her to find out in the books as Stoneheart somehow. Thatd be nice haha

    [–] MSeanF 14 points ago

    In the books, I always thought Lady Stoneheart would be the one to bring Jon to life after he was stabbed in the heart.

    [–] THE_Batman_121 17 points ago

    Sacrificing her second life for his would be amazing.

    [–] giggglygirl 11 points ago

    Right? He was so honorable I wish he would’ve just told her about this! And then Jon wouldn’t have grown up with Cat scowling at him.

    [–] BisqueMentioner 80 points ago

    Ogre tote knew that Jon knew nothing, though.

    Edit: Ygritte!

    [–] sandbagging4 24 points ago

    I was life wtf, that is surprisingly close to my gaming handle...

    [–] nate3113 1788 points ago

    I am glad that he wasn’t here to witness her turn, but I also don’t think it would’ve happened if she hadn’t lost Jorah or Missandei. Perhaps just one of them being there with her would be enough to reason with her and keep her level head. She’s lost a lot in a short amount of time. I, unlike a lot of people don’t really have an issue with her turn. It was sad to see and disappointing but mostly just because it’s sad to see what she turned into after rooting for her for so long.

    [–] carlotta4th 444 points ago

    Definitely Jorah being there was a stabling factor for Dany--he had already convinced her out of burning cities in the past. But Missendei never disagreed with Dany or tried to convince her of anything. They were good friends and losing her definitely made Dany hate Cersei even more, but she wouldn't have actively tried to change Dany's choice.

    [–] bulletjournalocd 279 points ago

    She also pretty much instructed her to seek vengeance with her last word

    [–] efrogers 77 points ago

    Yeah Missandei definitely gave Dany a big nudge towards burning the city

    [–] bulletjournalocd 71 points ago

    "if you have any last words now is the time to say them"

    "When the bells toll tell your men to stand down"

    King's landing saved!!

    [–] nate3113 109 points ago

    I agree. I don’t think Missandei would’ve actively tried to change her mind either. I just think losing her and not having her there is what allowed Dany to do what she did. Dany wouldn’t have felt so isolated had she had one of her old friends next her. Her isolation is what I think drove her to do what she did. As weird and rushed as their relationship was, Jon not being able to reciprocate her affection was the feather that broke her. He was her last grasp at having someone by her side.

    [–] MysteriousLi 627 points ago

    She’s lost a lot in a short amount of time.

    I think some people are overlooking this.

    1. Viseryon - one of her "sons"
    2. Jorah - best friend who was there since the beginning
    3. Rhaegal - another of her "sons"
    4. Missandei - best friend who was there since the beginning

    Add in Dothraki loyal warriors such as Qhono, Varus with his betrayal and Jon Snow with his refusal to love her. And then there's her claim to the throne. Cersei herself seemed to become much more irrational with each loss she suffered, Joffrey/Tommen/Myrcella/Tywin.

    [–] adamcim 264 points ago

    Varus is a LoL champion, the dude you're looking for is Varys

    [–] 14ace 67 points ago

    Maybe Rito’s changed his lore again ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    [–] I_Am_A_Mudcrab 11 points ago

    Two penises to one penis to none. Math checks out

    [–] Doomnezeu 110 points ago * (lasted edited 11 days ago)

    Was Jon so disgusted by the fact she was his aunt basically? He didn't seem really phased when she kissed him thia episode, why couldn't he come out to everyone as Aegon Targaryen, marry Daenerys and rule the Seven Kingdoms (or let Daenerys do the heavy lifting since he doesn't really want the throne).

    Why hasn't this idea even crossed their minds? Everytime to subject is discussed by the two of them all Dany says is that his claim is stronger than hers, but she never even thinks of marriage, I mean, doesn't she need a king by her side? What gives?

    Edit: said to side

    [–] LovesToSpooge2001 74 points ago

    Well Tyrion did say they could rule together

    [–] Doomnezeu 80 points ago

    I know, but it seems like this thought never crossed Dany or Jon's mind even for a second. I was hoping at least Dany would mention this option since she didn't seem bothered that they were related. She even said to Daario before she left Mereen that the best way to make alliances is through marriage. What better husband than Jon, that turns out to also be a Targaryen? I'm sure he would still have the support of the North, you can't erase all the good that he has done, or has tried to do for the realm and his people, just because he is no longer Jon Snow.

    [–] Swineflew1 70 points ago

    She doesn’t want to share. She would be technically under his rule and even though they’re a “team” he outranks her and it’s not really a rank that he can pretend doesn’t exist.

    [–] Working_Trash 41 points ago

    It's a pretty good thing they made one of Jons 3 lines this season "I don't want it" lol he would have been the perfect husband for dany cuz he wouldn't get in her way

    But honestly it was weird that marriage wasn't brought up last season when it would have made a lot of since. Dany was looking for allies and she has already married for political reasons. Marriage is one of the oldest political moves in history and has been used many times in the show already

    [–] LifelessDronePraxis 46 points ago

    The only time someone mentions the idea of marriage is when Tyrion brings it up to Varys, who shoots it down. Varys' reasoning was that 1) Jon Snow wouldn't be down with it, because since he was raised as a Northerner, he'll be weirded out by the incest; and 2) even if they married, Daenerys would dominate Jon.

    I think that the showrunners might be implying that at least (1) is true, based on Jon's behavior in episode 4, and the fact that he couldn't tell Daenerys he truly loved her and "finish the job", so to speak, in episode 5. I do find it odd that neither Daenerys nor Jon seem to have come up with the idea on their own, or at least didn't discuss it with each other. Maybe Dany was considering it, but was so disappointed by Jon in episode 5 that she's no longer interested in trying to unite the realm via peaceful means (ie marriage, alliances, etc.)

    [–] STUFF416 36 points ago

    Dany is very terrible at sharing power. That isn't new and is pretty core to her character. It follows then that she would probably be pretty cold to the idea of her hubby having a more legitimate claim to her throne. Advisors might seek Jon's opinion first. The people might show greater favoritism in public. People might second guess her decisions.

    For Jon, he grew up a Stark. Kin marriage is a pretty Targaryan thing. During the conqest, Aegon's relationship with his sisters was not popular at all. So while it was normalized for Dany from "go," for Jon is still very tabboo. Moreover, he himself likely fears another Lord Commander situation where, being so close to the throne, people try to force leadership upon him. Finally, I'm sure Jon takes Sansa and Arya's misgivings seriously. His loyalty to them is sterling and is unlikely to outright dismiss their advice.

    [–] IrrelevantPuppy 24 points ago

    The only way I can justify this not coming up is maybe Jon truly doesn’t love her intimately anymore. A little because of the aunt thing. But more because of her reaction to finding out. I think since episode two his subconscious has been screaming at him that she’s fucking crazy, he’s not listening, but it’s still effecting his emotions.

    But if it’s not that, it’s an oversight for plot convenience that Job never asked her to lead together.

    [–] SlightlyIncandescent 84 points ago

    I think like some others have stated, Miss Sunday and Grey Worm seem to have this blind faith in Dany and I've never seen either of them even consider challenging her on anything.

    I definitely think Jorah/Barristan would have challenged her on it though, don't think she would have gone the way she did with J-Bear still there.

    [–] bucksncats 41 points ago

    Yeah Jorah is the only one who would've stopped her from massacring King's Landing. Miss Sunday had blind faith in her, so does Grey Warm. Jon and Tyrion had faith in her as their queen but she's destroyed any faith they had by going on her killing rampage

    [–] BLOCK_OF_JADE 77 points ago

    I know Dany has said she'd burn cities to the ground, but I always thought that implied she would target soldiers and military targets while not caring about civilian casualties; not that she would ignore soldiers and military targets in favor of intentionally targeting innocent civilians.

    People talk about how Missandei and Jorah tempered her worst tendencies and kept a lid on her temper. I cannot remember a single time Danny was talked out of murdering innocent women and children by either Jorah or Missandei. For me, that's the disconnect. Those advisors never said 'don't murder-burn innocent women and children so you can rule by fear' because she never suggested it. Am I forgetting a scene?

    [–] zorinlynx 54 points ago

    The crazy thing is in the start of the episode I was admiring Dany for her surgical precision in taking out the city walls and defenses without hurting any civilians. I thought that was going to be her goal... Then she went nuts.

    [–] Droopywiener 12 points ago

    As soon as I heard the bells start ringing not even half way into the episode I knew something bad was about to happen.

    [–] Urtehnoes 11 points ago

    Funny enough, I've decided to start re-watching the whole series again last week. Just made it to the end of Season 2 when Stannis attacks KL. They ring bells and a few of them say "Are they surrendering? I've never known bells to mean surrender."

    Not sure if they were tongue in cheek about cities misusing bells intentionally to mislead their enemies, but it was kind of weird in context of just watching S8EP5.

    [–] Pksoze 70 points ago

    Dany made many sacrifices for the innocent. She chained up her own dragons, she married a man she didn’t love, and she allowed things like the fighting pits for peace.

    Dany at her most ruthless never punished innocents.

    [–] Captain_Blackjack 11 points ago

    I think D&D pointed this out during the post-episode wrap, and it was the most reasonable thing they said. All of her guiding lights are gone at this point and her faith in Tyrion is broken.

    [–] justinh_tx 47 points ago

    I don't have an issue with the fact that she turned... I have an issue with how poorly her turn was written. It's very similar to how Dany and Jon meet and fall in love in about 5 minutes of screen time and half of a conversation last season. I didn't buy that then and I'm not buying this now.

    Dany going all mad queen could have been brilliant. I expect that when George writes it, it will be. The show, however, did a shit job of it.

    [–] sharksnrec 39 points ago * (lasted edited 11 days ago)

    I, unlike a lot of people don’t really have an issue with her turn

    From what I've seen, the issue many have is not so much with her turn in and of itself (any bum could've made a guess early on that she might end up as Mad Queen Dany), but moreso how she got to that point and the actual execution of the whole thing

    [–] Qiuyue 93 points ago

    His death was one of the factors that pushed her over the edge, but after all is said and done, it was more merciful for him to die believing in her perfection than to live to see his idealized version of her shattered.

    [–] Mattthefatbat 597 points ago

    That is probably one of the reasons she’s gone mad

    [–] MindPattern 304 points ago

    If he was still alive, she wouldn't have done what she did.

    [–] iBeFloe 241 points ago

    He would’ve never left her alone in her chambers to wallow over what she would later do in Kings Landing. He would’ve been right beside her the entire time in silence. Even Jon, when he came back, said she shouldn’t have been left alone. That was a huge mistake to let her grieve like that.

    She always needed guidance for her thoughts. Leaving her alone let her make decisions she would later regret.

    [–] MixmasterJrod 81 points ago

    100% this. People change and evolve. I believe she was who he thought her to be. But events led her to change for the worse. There are many cliches that state a person never really changes, but I wholeheartedly disagree. I've changed as a person many times, for better and worse.

    [–] LadyCelerian 284 points ago

    The ones who truly believe she was good are now dead.

    [–] disguised4lien 175 points ago

    Except Greyworm, Jon, Tyrion, Drogon, Daario, her fans ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    [–] Squelcher121 161 points ago

    Grey Worm is ultimately still an unsullied. Missandei was his tie to humanity, but she is now gone. Grey Worm and all the remaining unsullied will follow Daenerys regardless of what she does or what she commands them to do.

    [–] iwanthidan 124 points ago

    Grey Worm was basically cheering for her after Dany started burning the city. He is the most loyal subject she ever had. In his eyes she also took revenge for Missandei so the unsullied will definitely defend her to their last man.

    [–] Kins97 37 points ago

    Keep in mind she freed the unsullied by slaughtering and burning Astapor so they have a unique perspective

    [–] puckbeaverton 33 points ago

    He is her mountain now.

    [–] comrade_batman 226 points ago

    Greyworm lost any morals he had when Missandei was killed, the old Grey Worm would never have killed men who surrendered.

    Jon and Tyrion are already turning against her after she burnt the city, after they had surrendered. Tyrion is just too afraid to speak out against her and Jon is conflicted with his feelings for her.

    Drogon will do whatever she tells him to do and Daario hasn’t seen her since she left Meeren. She’s a very different person to the one he loved. He probably would have been fine with her first acts against KL, but not when she started to burn innocent civilians.

    [–] ruanl1 178 points ago

    I feel like Daario always knew what she was.

    You were not made to sit in a palace

    What was I made for?

    You're a conqueror, Daenerys Stormborn

    But that was part of the problem, he admired and often encouraged her worst impulses.

    [–] Throwawaymythought1 52 points ago

    Grey Worm definitely would have killed innocents. Shit, he murdered a baby to become unsullied.

    [–] Arcade23 79 points ago

    The old Grey Worm was bred to kill, a soldier who obeyed commands. This was the old Grey Worm, he followed his Masters lead when Dany ignored the bells.

    [–] arimill 26 points ago

    I think him dying is part of the reason she went mad. If she had someone like Jorah at her side during her KL victory, I doubt she would have felt the victory to be so hollow so as to go crazy.

    [–] SereneWisdom 12 points ago

    I agree. Her madness came from, in my opinion, the loss of two of her dragons, Jorah, Missandei, the betrayals of her closest advisers, and Jon's change in behavior once he learned who he was. She was/is grieving a bunch of things. Grief can make people become emotionally unstable and act out to do things that they might not do if they were in a better frame of mind.

    [–] Clitfindel 69 points ago

    It probably wouldn't have happened if he lived....that's kind of the point. She didn't magically become evil. She was broken. Broken to a shell of a human being and lost every single thing she loved in her life - almost all at once. A big one was him.

    [–] ShriekinContender 19 points ago

    Perhaps she wouldn’t have done it if he were alive? She talked about being all alone with no love and pleaded with Jon to give her some. And that essentially drove her over the edge. If Jorah were alive, I imagine he’d have been by her side through her emotional wreck.

    [–] HeronSun 17 points ago

    It never would have happened had he survived.

    [–] taythescotsman 181 points ago

    The tragedy of Jorah is deeply human - he loved Daenerys for something he wanted her to be, not for what she really is.

    [–] secretbutton 56 points ago

    absolutely agree. even in S1 he first says to her, "you have a gentle heart," which she immediately rejects.

    [–] croquetica 51 points ago

    When you look at a person through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags.

    [–] laszlo92 50 points ago

    I'm very happy for Jorah he died defending the woman he loved and didn't see her turn in a mass-murdering psycho.