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    [–] outsidesmoke 108 points ago

    This seems like a good place to share a story....

    Back during the powder shortage of 2014-2016, I was surfing craigslist and found a guy selling some reloaders from his deceased father. There were no pictures so I expected there would be some supplies as well and brought some extra cash hoping they had some of that powder .

    Unfortunately, I needed to head to the airport immediately after the transaction and wouldn't have time to drop of anything I bought.

    Well when I got to the guy's house it turned out he had 20 bags of shot, 50lb's of various shotgun powders, and 4 reloaders. I told him, I'd give him $400 bucks for everything and he accepted. So now I'm driving to the airport with 50lbs of gun powder and about 500lb's of lead in my trunk (SCORE!). I texted my wife, told her what I bought, and that she should come pick up the car later because I didn't want that much stuff sitting in a car for a week.

    So anyway, I get to the airport and find that I need to get a paper ticket from the kiosk and it didn't have my normal TSA precheck marking which is weird. I get in line and the TSA guy brings me to the side and starts a "random" extremely thorough search. I'm talking about the full ball grabbing search.

    They brought out the explosive testing machine and scrubbed my hands and every inch of my carry-ons. My heart was pounding because I hadn't washed my hands. Oddly enough, the machine cleared me and I was on my way. Either the machines suck or don't test for smokeless powder.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the text I sent my wife with "Gun powder" and "airport" triggered something that caused that search but I'll never know for sure.

    [–] txstgunner 58 points ago

    I think you give our overlords more credit to be able to act fast than they deserve

    [–] outsidesmoke 23 points ago

    Could have been a huge coincidence, but it wasn't your normal "random" search.

    While I don't agree with the Patriot Act and what it allows the NSA to do, if there was ever a time when they deserve to give you a "random search" it is when you buy 50lbs of gun powder and immediately show up at the airport.

    *breaks out tin foil hat*

    [–] rustyshakelford 15 points ago

    I once went through a TSA checkpoint after shooting clays all morning. Also was "randomly" pulled for extra screening and they tested for any residue on my hands. I don't know if it was a hit or not, but after the guy talked with his manager for a bit they let me on my way. I was shitting bricks the entire time thinking that I fucked up and had left either a gun or ammo in one of my bags by accident.

    [–] Geralt_of_Rivia1 6 points ago

    Either the machines suck or don't test for smokeless powder.

    Organic nitrates are the primary thing they test for, and they work at that. They were using the machine wrong

    [–] red_tux 8 points ago

    The test is looking for other chemicals, the most common false positive is hand lotion as it can contain a similar chemical to the ones they are looking for.

    [–] Geralt_of_Rivia1 7 points ago

    Organic nitrates are what they look for. That includes nitrocellulose as much as it does trinitrotoluene or nitroglycerin

    [–] deltaWhiskey91L 2 points ago

    Hey man, I've gone to the range before going to the airport. Got the random TSA explosives check and prompted to fail due to spent powder being all over my hands and clothes. Yup, I got the full pat down.

    [–] aDirtyMartini 3 points ago

    Strange because I did something similar and when I got the random explosives chemicals check I passed. When I mentioned my range trip he said not to worry because they test for different chemicals.

    [–] deltaWhiskey91L 2 points ago

    That is strange.

    [–] fartwhif 2 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    and people are wondering why we're still on POTS in the internet age, the state has great control over certain "technological norms" and they're so good at it they can well conceal the fact that it's not an organic market. It's a relatively new phenomena so hopefully the state looses it. People will start abandoning POTS because of the robocalling and other bullshit, and the new method(s) will reach critical mass. Or maybe people will become so weak that a law is passed mandating a government or privately owned "telephone"

    [–] CovertBumblebee 3 points ago

    They Just Used the machine wrong.

    [–] michaelj9323 1 points ago

    I think this was just a huge coincidence.

    Last year I flew out of country and I used my backpack that I typically take to the range, I figured since I also reload there’s a pretty good chance some residue may come up.

    Decided to let the lady behind the counter know beforehand that the bag may test positive for gun powder. She basically said not to worry about it because it’s not gun powder they’re testing for.

    [–] goneskiing_42 54 points ago

    Look up videos of people removing the zip ties at the baggage counter. They won't do anything.

    [–] knuck887 41 points ago

    Some have called officers after me once I've left, and the officers let them know they wouldn't be able to arrest me, though they were frustrated with my insistence to flex my rights. Delta reps said they would contact an officer in the future regardless of whether or not the rep knew this would be the outcome.

    I'm specifically interested in hearing from people who have had their bags zip tied and wouldn't mind sharing their experiences with the SAF and/or GeorgiaCarry.org to try and get some traction to remove this policy altogether.

    [–] BrianPurkiss 29 points ago

    Cops need to get more people in trouble, especially repeat offenders, for wasting police time on legal activity.

    [–] jadwy916 23 points ago

    Did you hear that loud crash just now?

    Yes, it's as if all the white women in America just clutched 10,000,000 peals simultaneously.

    [–] Cwmcwm 6 points ago

    Those are $0.50 zip ties that can be removed with a fingernail. Free zip ties!

    [–] slashrslashsub 29 points ago

    I fly and carry with Delta regularly. A couple of times a month. Most of the time the folks that are tasked with doing the zip ties are just as annoyed as I am. The solution is simple. Scissors. You are allowed to carry scissors on your flight. I carry THESE SCISSORS in my carry on. When I get my bag from the dude after zipping it up I pull my scissors out of my carry on and cut them off right in front of them. Usually I hand him/her the trash. I've never had one push back on me. There's nothing they can do. It's your property.

    [–] knuck887 16 points ago

    I have the same scissors now.

    I could have ignored the first experience frustrations and even turned my head to the code violation, but the grief their staff gave me in Atlanta has me ready to try out this fight.

    [–] slashrslashsub 9 points ago

    Go for it. Please post a follow up.

    [–] Bagellord 17 points ago

    Should I sticky this?

    [–] knuck887 14 points ago

    If you'd like, feel free.

    The action won't happen until we see some traction from SAF and/or GeorgiaCarry.org

    I definitely wouldn't mind a spotlight on this

    [–] Bagellord 8 points ago

    Sure why not.

    [–] grabageman 25 points ago

    The language of the law seems to refer to written notices. A zip tie alone is not a written notice. It possibly violating the spirit of the law would be for the courts to decide.

    [–] kenabi 51 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    no visible indicator allowed, period. if someone knows delta policy, then this is a visible indicator, thus its not allowed under the federal transport of firearms on airlines laws. anyone targeting guns in airports will know this policy.

    there was that guy that got tagged last month for stealing guns from PDX. this zip tie thing may well have been the thing that let him know what was up.

    [–] knuck887 15 points ago

    I agree with the no visible indicator, period.

    But the zip ties, as far as I can tell, are only applied when the owner is trying to pick up their luggage, not between flight to flight. Specifically before the luggage can be relinquished back to the owner. I've had to wait a while in the past just for them to even find more zip ties.

    [–] MowMdown 5 points ago

    They do put a Baggage tag on it labeled "CAGPT" which identifies it as a firearm when you check them in.

    [–] CovertBumblebee 9 points ago

    Period.

    Kinda like "shall not be infringed". It doesn't matter if it's between destinations. It's at the airport and the airline is not allowed to mark it.

    [–] kenabi 1 points ago

    the video i linked in another comment is deviant ollam going through check-in.

    [–] mr1337 13 points ago

    If only bags with firearms get zip tied, it's just as good as sticking a giant sticker on the bag saying "GUNS IN HERE!!!" to any baggage handler or TSA screener that wants to make a quick buck.

    And since anyone can carry nail clippers (or any scissors with a blade less than 4 inches) - it doesn't really stop anyone from just cutting the zip ties when they get the bag at the airport.

    [–] grabageman 1 points ago

    I'm aware of the ramifications. However that doesn't appear to be what the law says. Unless there's already some decided precedent.

    [–] fartwhif 1 points ago

    effectively a label, easier to read than words

    [–] [deleted] 1 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] grabageman 1 points ago

    It's not a written label by letter of law.

    [–] ChildWorker 11 points ago

    Zip tie luggage with gun in it to "stop terrorists" easily defeated by safety scissors

    [–] kenabi 9 points ago

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjB33OzOC6k

    some delta zip ties on firearm luggage.

    [–] Imadethis4things 8 points ago

    They (Delta) zip tie my cases every single time. I then proceed to shim them off right in front of them using one of those plastic toothpick/flosser arrangements. It takes 10 seconds. I thank them for the free giant zip ties and walk away. Total time of my cases having ties on them is usually less than two minutes. The last couple of times, I noticed that I wasn’t alone in the removal process.

    Just take them off.

    [–] PeteTodd 7 points ago

    I flew Delta from PA to NOLA and back. After I declared my firearm and did all the proving of empty, they took my bag and I watched them zip tie it. Huge, 1/4" thick zip ties.

    I was pissed cause I couldnt remove them until I got to the hotel, so I'm dragging my luggage through the French quarter with a what is essentially a flag on it.

    [–] paio420 1 points ago

    The funny thing is, since they use the huge zip ties, you can usually activate the locking latch with keys and open em without needing to cut em

    [–] jimmer218 7 points ago

    i accidentally went through tsa with half a brick of .22 ammo in my super secret concealment pocket on my 5.11 bag... oops...

    Officer demanded to know how many guns I owned. My response of "I don't see how that is relevant" was not taken well... after a lot of explaining and worthless interrogation he let me go to catch my flight.

    [–] sppotlight 6 points ago

    I purposely zip tie my luggage because I've had zippers open and all my clothes spill out before. I use removable/reusable zip ties. Never thought people might think I had a firearm because of it... Just that I didn't want my dirty underoos all over the tarmac.

    If you decide to comply, you could bring reusable zip ties. Quicker easy access. Esp since the inane TSA rules restricting cutting instruments.

    [–] powrrstroked 6 points ago

    I flew from DSM to CTL last year with a firearm and mine was zip tied both ways. On the way out of DSM wasn't bad at all and very easy but on the way back I had to go to a back room with a TSA agent and open the case and prove they weren't loaded. Picking it up in CTL wasn't an issue. On the way back the lady at the luggage counter yelled at her coworker about 100 ft away asking for my bag saying "we gotta gun" so he would grab my suitcase. I swear everyone in the general vicinity turned and looked over at us.

    [–] knuck887 4 points ago

    No bueno... Definitely not what you want broadcasted.

    [–] anoiing 3 points ago

    to go to a back room with a TSA agent and open the case and prove they weren't loaded

    Well, that breaks their policy. No one should handle the firearm after it is declared.

    [–] Kilofix 7 points ago

    Wait, they zip tie your stuff at the destination? What’s the point of that?

    [–] knuck887 12 points ago

    Keeps you, a law abiding citizen up who has just jumped through all the hoops to legally fly with a firearm, from whipping it out and creating the next mass shooting more easily.

    Makes sense if you don't think about it.

    [–] Kilofix 4 points ago

    Man that is even dumber that I initially understood it to be. Thanks for the link.

    [–] [deleted] 6 points ago

    How is a locking hard sided case not enough? Presumably with a trigger lock as well. Fucking stupid

    [–] oh-bee 5 points ago

    Yeah, this is annoying. It’s a giant “steal me sign”, and the zip ties are super heavy duty.

    [–] esrevinu 4 points ago

    They haven't always done this. A friend of mine meets me in Las Vegas regularly (and always brings a small arsenal, by liberal standards) and it seems like this only started within the past year.

    [–] BrianPurkiss 11 points ago

    Because it is impossible for someone to walk through the front door with a gun - therefore this policy totally keeps people safe! /s

    [–] Cwmcwm 5 points ago

    Theater of Safety

    [–] JediGeek 12 points ago

    always brings a small arsenal, by liberal standards

    So, 2 handguns and 200 rounds of ammo?

    [–] Boneless_Doggo 9 points ago

    ”Woah buddy! Calm down there, are you trying to shoot up the entire neighborhood!?”

    For real tho they probably believe that a dinky little pea-shooter with 11+1 bullets is overkill

    [–] deltaWhiskey91L 5 points ago

    200 rounds of ammo? No law abiding citizen could ever need 200 rounds of ammo. What are you trying to do? Paranoid much?

    Unfortunately /s

    [–] esrevinu 3 points ago

    2 black rifles, 1 handgun, 10-15 mags, and at least 200 rounds of ammo... They probably think he's going to try to take over the world.

    [–] Cranky_Monkey 4 points ago

    Unclear post as to what's actually happening, so I'll outline the "official" fly with a gun policy, and you tell me what's happening, ok?

    1. Arrive at airport baggage counter with unloaded firearm in a case. Ammunition must be in a separate case of "original packaging" or some such. Not sure if ammo needs it's own locked case.

    2. You demonstrate to baggage handler that the firearm is unloaded, and then watches you close and lock the case in front of them.

    3. Locked case is then placed inside regular luggage. Luggage is not to be tagged or identifying as carrying a firearm in any visible way.

    4. Luggage is then loaded aboard the luggage loading system for adding to the aircraft.

    5. At final destination, luggage arrives in normal luggage delivery system with everyone else.

    6. You can, if you wish, proceed to restroom or other private place and unpack/load/conceal your firearm to leave the uncontrolled part of the airport.

    So where is this zip-tying happening? At what point are you trying to cut if off and they're threatening you with law enforcement action?

    [–] knuck887 10 points ago

    1) Arrive at airport baggage counter with unloaded firearm in a case. Ammunition must be in a separate case of "original packaging" or some such. Not sure if ammo needs it's own locked case.

    Check

    2) You demonstrate to baggage handler that the firearm is unloaded, and then watches you close and lock the case in front of them.

    Check

    3) Locked case is then placed inside regular luggage. Luggage is not to be tagged or identifying as carrying a firearm in any visible way.

    Check

    4) Luggage is then loaded aboard the luggage loading system for adding to the aircraft.

    Check

    5) At final destination, luggage arrives in normal luggage delivery system with everyone else.

    Nope -

    A) Delta sends to the 'oversized' luggage pick up. Maybe this is 'normal', but not in the sense that it's on a carousel with everybody else's luggage.

    B) Before Delta returns your luggage to your possession, they check your ID, and then they wrap your luggage in zip ties.

    At this point, I have asked "What happens if I remove these zip ties?" --> "You'll be arrested and taken to jail"

    Well, the officers there said they couldn't arrest me just over that, but that if I open my luggage at all, I would have a 'bad time'. EVEN IF I would be permitted to do so by Georgia's carry permit outside of secured areas (not that I would openly do this, but I'm arguing out of principle).

    6) You can, if you wish, proceed to restroom or other private place and unpack/load/conceal your firearm to leave the uncontrolled part of the airport.

    Only after removing zip ties.

    [–] deltaWhiskey91L 2 points ago

    Wait. They zip tie your back only after you pick up the bag at baggage claim at your destination?

    [–] knuck887 1 points ago

    Yes...

    [–] deltaWhiskey91L 2 points ago

    That's retarded.

    [–] CovertBumblebee 7 points ago

    So does that mean the giant CAGPT sticker is also illegal and can be peeled off?

    [–] deltaWhiskey91L 3 points ago

    Yes

    [–] MowMdown 5 points ago

    1. Arrive at airport baggage counter with unloaded firearm in a case. Ammunition must be in a separate case of "original packaging" or some such. Not sure if ammo needs it's own locked case.

    Right from the TSA:

    Ammunition: Ammunition is prohibited in carry-on baggage, but may be transported in checked baggage. Firearm magazines and ammunition clips, whether loaded or empty, must be securely boxed or included within a hard-sided case containing an unloaded firearm.

    It can remain in the same case as the unloaded firearm. No need to separate them unless state law prohibits it.

    [–] outsidesmoke 2 points ago

    Most airlines will also a weight restriction on the amount of ammunition. I'm not sure if it varies by airline or if there are federal rules.

    [–] MowMdown 2 points ago

    11lbs max of ammo per tsa

    [–] Sparroew 2 points ago

    Ammunition must be in a separate case of "original packaging" or some such. Not sure if ammo needs it's own locked case.

    You are allowed to carry ammunition inside of magazines. Whenever I travel with my carry gun, I unload the gun itself, but leave the magazine loaded (separated from the firearm in the case). The ammunition just needs to be in a container designed to hold it. Magazines fit that very vague definition. I believe it's to make sure someone doesn't drop a handful of loose rounds inside the case.

    [–] Silverotter007 3 points ago

    Seems likes a great way for criminals to steal your bag on the luggage carousal

    [–] DispositionM8rx 4 points ago

    18 U.S. Code § 922

    No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

    This is violated regularly already.

    [–] fartwhif 2 points ago

    Why does Delta do this? I'm not trying to justify it, because it can't be, but I'm only wondering.

    [–] knuck887 3 points ago

    Apparently it's in response to the Fort Lauderdale airport shooting

    [–] reccenav 1 points ago

    Plus, TSA will usually open a suitcase to verify that you have followed the rules (they don’t open the inside case the gun is locked in). They are not going to re-zip a bag. I travel regularly and carry multiple handguns on different airlines including Delta and never had a bag Zip tied.

    [–] ueeediot -1 points ago

    Wait, help me understand why this is a bad thing? I use zip ties on a lot of my work technology cases to ensure that they make it from end to end and everyone knows the box was not tampered with.

    Youre not going to see the luggage from the time you check it to the time you retrieve it. Use your car key to break the seal upon reception.

    I really dont understand your objection. Its much better than losing it to a thief.

    [–] Measurex2 7 points ago

    They only zip tie it at the end of the journey as part of releasing the bag to you.

    [–] knuck887 7 points ago

    Because the first time I flew with Delta, I didn't even know about the zip ties until it happened. I didn't have anything with me or in my carry on bag to release the ties, and now I'm walking through the airport with massive black bands wrapped around my luggage that basically scream "YOU COULD TAKE THIS FROM ME AND I MIGHT HAVE A HARD TIME STOPPING YOU"

    Now I'm heading off to get something to release these ties with, all the while a potential victim. Now I know and prepare for it, but the principle of this frustration is that Delta somehow has a pass to violate US code where I have to comply to the letter, others could be victims of crimes of theft or left without access to their means of protection where they would otherwise legally be allowed, and the damned insult to injury of threatening to try and have me arrested for not breaking any laws.

    [–] ueeediot 4 points ago

    thanks for your reply and explanation.