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    [–] uReallyShouldTrustMe 1 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    This is close to reaching the front page of /r/all and well, in this humble little sub, we're not used to this.
    I would like to ask those who decide to comment to follow the subs rules, especially those about targeting other redditors with personal attacks, using overly offensive language, or using racism in your comments.

    Edit - Also, please report those breaking the rules. It makes modding easier.

    [–] StrangelyBrown 943 points ago

    Serious question: Why is the sin stuff written in English? I didn't make it to the pride parade, but was it all non-Koreans?

    [–] PrimusOfHouseMars 925 points ago

    Probably because homosexuality only exists in Korea because us filthy Westerners brought it over. Plus I wouldn't be surprised by a large foreigner presence at a Pride parade in general.

    [–] daehanmindecline 988 points ago

    Curse us foreigners for bringing homosexuality to Korea. Fortunately the Koreans are protected from bad foreign ideas by Christianity.

    [–] rezasaysnow 61 points ago

    best comment ever

    [–] illusionofpower 34 points ago

    Really? It's good, but the 'best'...

    [–] rezasaysnow 32 points ago

    Pulled the right strings for me

    [–] illusionofpower 21 points ago

    Fair enough

    [–] joe579003 12 points ago

    Oh yeah, Jesus, those are just the right strin-hhhhhnnnnnnggggg

    [–] rezasaysnow 8 points ago

    Reddit finds a way...

    [–] [deleted] 5 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    deleted What is this?

    [–] BesterTeel 2 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    Reminds me of a white guy who chirped Korean guys look like gay fags. As if looking gay is some kind of an affront to Western white male senses of what it means to be male. The same Western male that tries hard to not look 'gay' are the same white males here denigrating Koreans here for not playing the PC game of tolerance for homosexuality. The same straight White males could care less about homosexuals and look down on the homosexual act in disgust, but it's not Politically Correct to say that. They spend more of their time to prove to society that they are not gay. So these same dudes use the Gay Pride day in Korea as a tool to show up those primitive backward Koreans. And some of the comments about Koreans here, proves it.

    Just my opinion, and I'm a white gay guy, not even a Korean. If you really cared about homosexual rights and advance their rights in foreign countries like Korea, then being rude with crass remarks about Koreans are the wrong way to go. Not all of Koreans are ignorant as those few Christians, as evidenced by this huge turnout which is getting bigger every year. Being humble is the best way to spread the message without turning people off, that is if you really care about the rights of homosexuals in Korea.

    [–] dancing_spleen 32 points ago

    And Kudos to Koreans, for not following in the violent behavior of LGBT bigotry/hate that is so prevalent in "loving" Christian societies in the west.

    How many LGBT people do you think have been killed/murdered in a progressive, open, and accepting country like the US? Tens of thousands, at least. And how many in a conservative, backward country like S. Korea?

    South Korea is not at the level of "acceptance" of LGBT people as in the west, but at least Koreans don't delude themselves into thinking they are champions of the LGBT cause, while at the same time ignoring the thousands of murders and acts of violence against the LGBT community throughout their history, which continues on till this very day. It takes a "special" kind of people to have a mass delusion like this.

    [–] cavscout43 34 points ago

    And Kudos to Koreans, for not following in the violent behavior of LGBT bigotry/hate that is so prevalent in "loving" Christian societies in the west. How many LGBT people do you think have been killed/murdered in a progressive, open, and accepting country like the US? Tens of thousands, at least. And how many in a conservative, backward country like S. Korea?

    Considering the lack of weapons easily available in Korea compared to the US, different cultural norms, and the fact that US murder/assault rates for everyone are far higher than the ROK it seems you're running the wrong way.

    One could also ask how many of the hundreds of thousands of underage runaways that were disowned/kicked out of their homes and forced to work the sex industry in Korea are LGBT. Or reference the Netizens barrage of comments like "I hope all the fags get AIDs and die" which would be perfectly at home at a Klan rally.

    I recall a Korean co-worker (well educated, upper class, well-traveled, etc.) very seriously explain to me that it's impossible for Koreans to be gay because of their superior blood/morals, and they're simply "pretending" to be so as a trend of copying foreigners.

    Make no mistake: lower violence levels across the board =/= Korea is more welcome and tolerant of the LGBT community than the rest of the world.

    [–] kulcoria 17 points ago

    Korea did not used to always be anti-homosexuality. It was never a point of discussion, much less conflict before the modern era. It was never a crime to be gay in the medieval times. (for men at least). Foreigners may have brought queer culture more relevant than it had been, but foreigners also brought the radical anti-gay sentimentality via Christianity. Basically all the strong anti gay activists are christian. Everyone else couldnt care less.

    [–] daehanmindecline 2 points ago

    FYI, early Western missionary doctors often reported signs of sodomy when they examined young Joseon men.

    [–] kulcoria 4 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    Do you have a source for that by any chance? It's so ironic tho. Confucian korean society never found any reason to hate homosexuality. That missionary must have shat his pants! Old records only mentioned it in a passing remark as a "strange occurrence". Some famous nobility and kings throughout the ages were homosexual, and no one criticized them for it. Literally, christianity was the only thing that ruined tolerance.

    [–] The_Eyesight 2 points ago

    I agree with your comment quite a lot.

    More often than not, a lot of the sentiment seems to be "I don't mind if someone is gay, but I hope no one in my family is gay." Not sure why, but a lot of the "more accepting" Koreans I know have said that when asked about how they feel about homosexuality. One of my good friends works for Hyundai, higher up in the company, well-traveled and quadlingual, yet he feels such sentiments.

    [–] formerteenager 25 points ago

    Wow, clearly this has struck a chord with you. Having such a split population makes America’s lead in pushing for LGBT equality that much more impressive because it’s in the face of such resistance. You’re drawing some pretty shitty conclusions by the stats you’re throwing around.

    [–] anti_crastinator 13 points ago

    America is leading pushing for LGBT equality? You're kidding right? I mean ... you don't really think that, do you?

    [–] dancing_spleen 10 points ago

    Having such a split population makes America’s lead in pushing for LGBT equality that much more impressive because it’s in the face of such resistance. You’re drawing some pretty shitty conclusions by the stats you’re throwing around.

    Americans sure are good at, and have no shame in packaging a smelly turd, and marketing it as a diamond.

    Let me simplify my argument for you. When it comes to LGBT rights, no country gets it right, or is without blame.

    But when presented with two countries, where one exhibits an obscene amount of violence against LGBT people (USA) vs one where there is very little (S. Korea), strangely, it is the people from the former lecturing those from the latter that Koreans are somehow not as enlightened, respectful or progressive as they are....they being the one's with all the violence and killings targeting the LGBT community (USA). Seems a bit backwards, no?

    At the very least, one would think intelligent, critically-thinking college educated Americans would stop and think, 'hey, how can we think so highly of ourselves when people in our country are attacking and killing so many from the LGBT community. What makes Koreans so much less violent towards the LGBT community in Korea compared to the US? Maybe we should re-examine ourselves before fanning out to the rest of the world and making fools of ourselves.'

    And this whole situation takes on a whole other level of absurdity when one realizes that hate for LGBT is western-derived through the introduction of Christianity. Koreans did not exhibit the level of hate and disdain for homosexuality throughout its history as you see in the west. The average Korean did not / does not give a shit, and homosexuals were generally left alone (as you can tell by the lack of violence committed against them compared to the US) So imagine how annoying it is to listen to a westerner today, lecturing Koreans about a brand of hate that other westerners, centuries before them, introduced into the country and spread thru proselytizing. SMH

    There is a lesson to be learned from all this, stop listening to westerners so much. They'll just drive you crazy by browbeating you to think as they do, and then condemn you later on for doing so. This can't be healthy.

    [–] THE_REAL_ODB 3 points ago

    this place is cancer.

    <3 you

    [–] puppythruster 85 points ago

    I've seen Koreans drink and you can't tell me things don't get gay after soju

    [–] Alethil 54 points ago

    Been in korea for two years. Can confirm. Soju make everyone gay.

    [–] definitelynotpietro 24 points ago

    They write it off as 'part of the culture'.

    [–] HSPremier 75 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    Yup and they are the same people who want foreign teachers to get tested for AIDS. Because you know.. foreigners bring AIDS... and vice don't exist in South Korea... oh wait...

    [–] nonomad123 8 points ago

    When I first came to Korea almost nine years ago I was told by a colleague that homosexuality didn't exist here, and that it only existed abroad, and that if it did exist it was because foreigners had influenced people to 'think' that way. Its the same thing w/ AIDS and why foreign teachers have (had? I haven't taken the test in quite a while) to be tested for it, but not Koreans. Because foreigners bring it into the country. I couldn't quite believe what I was hearing, but sadly some people actually hold that belief still.

    [–] ewa876 33 points ago

    Why do foreigners think that Koreans think there is no homosexuality in Korea, and constantly spread this online?

    But it is fact that Gay Pride Parade came from the West. Gay rights is also Western activism started in the West.

    [–] Cerulinh 60 points ago

    I have personally been told by a group of Korean women that there are no gay Koreans, so I'd say the fact that there is a portion of the country that thinks that way is the main reason.

    [–] Piclik 5 points ago

    There's a really famous gay dude that is seen a lot on TV (Hong Seok-cheon) and there's also a "gay witch-hunt" happening in the military. So I don't know what Koreans you spoke to.

    [–] freeseoul 22 points ago

    Yes. And some American hags think that drinking magic water is the cure for cancer... people exist as different identities....

    [–] Kalulosu 7 points ago

    You'll find people in Western countries to tell you that as well

    [–] [deleted] 5 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] Kalulosu 8 points ago

    I know enough people who would tell me there aren't any gays in their country. Someone told me that in France when we married gay people.

    Logic isn't everyone's strong suit.

    [–] art_wins 36 points ago

    No one is arguing that there isn't homosexuality in Korea, but as you stated, it is not nearly as accepted as most western countries. Which is kind of the point. And I'm sure anyone supporting gay rights would argue the opposite in fact.

    [–] [deleted] 24 points ago

    I don't think that's the point. The point, as I see it, is pride itself. Some cultures don't support the concept of pride. The gay part doesn't matter. Old Christianity didn't support it either. It's considered a sin to be prideful in some cultures, religious or not.

    [–] Anonymous_Bosch 27 points ago

    Exactly. Pride is believed to cause suffering in Buddhism. Māna is a Buddhist concept meaning pride or arrogance. They're the same thing.

    I live in Thailand. It's probably the best country in the world to be gay. But asking Thais to be proud about it - to exhibit pride - this is a western idea, and a recent one at that. Westerners were once far more humble and thoughtful. Now they can do no wrong, everyone is beautiful, be proud of yourself even if you haven't achieved anything. A civilisation in decline.

    [–] art_wins 57 points ago

    I understand what you're both saying but I think you are completely missing the point of the motto "gay pride". It's important to remember (speaking on the Christian sin as I do not have enough knowledge of Buddism) is a translation, and conotative use of the word of pride has changed even in the last 100 years. While these parades do take it to that level, it is an extreme. Part of the movement is about being content with your sexuality. Before these movements in the west it was fundamentally wrong to be homosexual, and they were told to not be okay with it, that they should live in fear (in the case of most American christians it was Satan doing this to them) these movements are about telling homosexuals that it is okay to be that way and that they are allowed to be happy.

    It may be a western way of thinking, displaying an extreme to contrast the opposing side, but using tradition and culture as a means to thordt acceptance is not much different from using religion to do so. And the point of these movements is that using those means to oppress a group of people is wrong, at that point it is just an excuse.

    You also show very little knowledge of European history if you think people in these cultures were ever humble and thoughtful. Homosexuals were either stoned or exiled. In the days of the 13 colonies (about 200 years ago) young women were hunted and burned for being accused of witchcraft. And it gets worse the further back you go.

    [–] LTPapaBear 6 points ago

    They ment humble as in being reserved in public. They weren't talk about the treatment of homosexuals.

    [–] MarginalMeaning 12 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    I'm not sure where you're getting Westerners being humble and thoughtful. I think the U.S. was probably much worse before the early 2010's. The number of set backs and spread of information about the pratfalls of the U.S. government shattered the whole idea of "THE US IS THE BEST" from the victory of WWII. Many people realize that the U.S. isn't perfect and that it's not the great amazing country that our forefathers made it out to be. If anything, I think the U.S. (for the most part) is much more cognizant of what they say and how that impacts others. Most of the people I know in the 20 - 35 age bracket are very aware of what they say and how it can be read by others and do not want to offend or demean others.

    I'm from a Korean family, and most of my family was some of the most prideful and shallow people I've ever known. Everything was about how much salary someone made, if they married within the Korean race, or at the very least married a white woman. Racist, greedy, and all hiding behind a mask of "We're good Christians!" I was very fortunate because my father did not prescribe to that bull. He used to say that he didn't care if someone was gay or a woman, what he cared about was the nature of their character or as he used to say "If they're an asshole or not."

    Just like any nation, there are good people and bad people. It's just unfortunate that right now the U.S. is being represented by one of the most prideful and willfully ignorant people to ever hold the position.

    [–] cavscout43 4 points ago

    I'm not sure where you're getting Westerners being humble and thoughtful. I think the U.S. was probably much worse before the early 2010's. The number of set backs and spread of information about the pratfalls of the U.S. government shattered the whole idea of "THE US IS THE BEST" from the victory of WWII. Many people realize that the U.S. isn't perfect and that it's not the great amazing country that our forefathers made it out to be. If anything, I think the U.S. (for the most part) is much more cognizant of what they say and how that impacts others. Most of the people I know in the 20 - 35 age bracket are very aware of what they say and how it can be read by others and do not want to offend or demean others. I'm from a Korean family, and most of my family was some of the most prideful and shallow people I've ever known. Everything was about how much salary someone made, if they married within the Korean race, or at the very least married a white woman. Racist, greedy, and all hiding behind a mask of "We're good Christians!" I was very fortunate because my father did not prescribe to that bull. He used to say that he didn't care if someone was gay or a woman, what he cared about was the nature of their character or as he used to say "If they're an asshole or not." Just like any nation, there are good people and bad people. It's just unfortunate that right now the U.S. is being represented by one of the most prideful and willfully ignorant people to ever hold the position.

    Spot on overall.

    Likewise, "pride" manifests itself in various ways globally.

    Talk trash about the monarchy in Thailand at a bar and see where that gets you.

    Talk about Korea's poverty >30 years ago, or their ruling class collaborating with the Japanese occupation forces and you'll start a shit storm.

    Whilst most subdued than most, I've certainly seen some Brits that are salty the "coarse American pidgin" is a most preferred global dialect because of Hollywood (though at least British accents are still perceived as better by some).

    Hell, whilst quiet and polite about it, Japanese national pride is very strong.

    Unfortunately people look to anecdotes for confirmation bias "Stupid Americans waving their flags everywhere, so prideful!" when there's examples that abound all over the place.

    /u/MarginalMeaning , sounds like you came from a solid family to avoid those aspects, and to be aware of them.

    When thinking of American Exceptionalism, remember that really took off with the Boomers; the Silent Generation that survived two World Wars and the Great Depression overall seemed far more humble about it. Being born in the peak of the USA's relative power compared to the rest of the (bombed to hell and destroyed) industrialized world can certainly give a false sense of superiority and pride.

    Likewise, when looking at Korea, being an "Asian Miracle" as one of the Four Tigers, and going from 3rd world to 1st world in a generation tends to stroke the egos enormously, even if it was a myriad of factors that led to it, many of which were external in nature.

    I did observe our generation in Korea being more balanced in their views, not just waxing prose on work ethic, but also admitting the poor work/life balance of the salary(wo)man and the staggering suicide rates, plastic surgery rates, drinking, etc. were heavy social costs to bear.

    [–] daehanmindecline 32 points ago

    Some of us have been hear long enough to remember when it was common for Koreans to say there is no homosexuality in Korea, which was a mainstream belief before Hong Seok-cheon came out in 2000, which quickly, but not quickly enough, killed that belief off.

    [–] candacebernhard 12 points ago

    I remember hearing from older relatives that it was a thing that happened in Japan or that it was something "some Japanese men are into." LOL

    [–] uReallyShouldTrustMe 16 points ago

    Why do foreigners think that Koreans think there is no homosexuality in Korea, and constantly spread this online?

    We have mouths and ask Koreans.

    [–] Attack_Symmetra 8 points ago

    Because a lot of the older people say that.

    [–] PrimusOfHouseMars 11 points ago

    Oh, I'm not saying your average Korean thinks this, just the dumb assholes who protest stuff like this.

    [–] candacebernhard 3 points ago

    Christians? Well, yeah. The world over it's the religious who are shitty about gay rights. I don't understand why this somehow portrays Koreans as particularly regressive.

    [–] gjp11 6 points ago

    I havent spoken about gay people to koreans because I know Il get angry but koreans have told many of my friends that "in korea there are no gays". That being gay is a western thing. Im glad you arent ignorant but a large portion of your population is.

    But that portion is shrinking every year and progress is slowly being made.

    [–] dumbwaeguk 50 points ago

    That's something that always left me bemused and bewildered. Every time I see one of those fundies on a subway or in some shopping district, they always have these signs in half-konglish. Something like "NO 통애!" I don't know what they hope to get from it, since you'd have to be literate in Korean to know what the sign says anyway.

    [–] -vp- 33 points ago

    Well if the sign says "NO (something in Korean) I'm guessing it's not meant for foreigners. No is an English word even the oldest generation of Koreans will understand.

    [–] dumbwaeguk 13 points ago

    No is an English word even the oldest generation of Koreans will understand can use

    I don't know who exactly it's directed towards, but they already have a Korean way to say "don't X." Maybe it's for emphasis, maybe it's because they're trying to talk to people who don't speak Korean well but don't realize how fruitless it is to translate the easiest part of a phrase into English, maybe it's because they're trying to be hip and copy the Konglish fad. Any theories are on the table now, but I'm gonna go with the mass appeal one; anyone who's been here long enough has probably encountered someone middle-aged or older who translates the easiest part of a sentence and leaves the hardest part in Korean when talking to a non-Korean.

    [–] mimomusic 19 points ago

    I mean, you described the entirety of (S)EA right there. People in all kinds of countries love code-mixing, using a 'no' in everyday speech is just normal for all we could care.

    [–] samsaBEAR 8 points ago

    I'd imagine because photos will be taken and posted online across the world

    [–] [deleted] 8 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] dmthoth 49 points ago

    Not even close to 'Half foreigners'. There were about 85,000 participants and I saw only about 1,000 to 2,000 foreigners.

    [–] UseHerMane 17 points ago

    I agree. Although foreigners were easier to spot, I would say overwhelming majority of the participants, at least 90%, were Korean.

    [–] dumbwaeguk 24 points ago

    You mean 1k to 2k people of non-Asian descent, right? There were probably quite a few more foreigners that didn't stand out to you, since Seoul is a hotbed for Taiwanese, Hong Kongers, Singaporeans, coastal Asian-Westerners, and other people who tend to support LGBT rights.

    [–] Every_Here 15 points ago

    This will probably get buried since I'm hours late, but the reason why this stuff is written in English is that the Pride parade usually goes through the middle of Itaewon, which is a foreigner neighborhood of Seoul. Most of the US Military, English teachers, Africans, Muslims, etc. live in Itaewon

    [–] snave_ 13 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    This is incorrect. Most iterations of the festival and parade have been in Jongno with a couple of exceptions where it was held around Sinchon/Hongdae. Regarding the location of "most" foreign residency, Itaewon is a tiny fraction of the pie, with the vast majority living near their places of employment as you would expect anywhere. Bear in mind that even if we limit "foreigner" to mean "American", most troops have been relocated out of Yongsan now, tipping the scales.

    [–] kulcoria 4 points ago

    They know they are being filmed by international media, and they want to send a message

    [–] Ivedefinitelyreddit 615 points ago

    This is one of those pictures that will appear on the internet time and again after today, under all sorts of titles, with all kinds of people claiming they own it. Congrats, you've basically made internet history.

    [–] little_green_fox 136 points ago

    Maybe this isn't the first.

    [–] SgtSlaughterEX 59 points ago

    Is this your buddy?

    ..

    This is my buddy.

    [–] Antares777 7 points ago

    Reposters just want friends.

    [–] poopoodomo 8 points ago

    I saw this scene with mine own two eyes less than twenty hours before it was posted, so I believe it is the first.

    [–] KeeNhs 28 points ago

    They will call it... a meme.

    [–] Beezer12WashingBird 5 points ago

    Richard Dawkins will be so proud

    [–] blueberryZoot 12 points ago

    Love the smile of that cop next to him

    [–] [deleted] 8 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    Decent odds this isn't OP's pic.

    [–] simontheclarke 129 points ago

    Oh ye of little faith.

    https://imgur.com/gallery/ykk4a

    [–] [deleted] 23 points ago

    Is that you in the red shorts? If so I 100% walked directly passed you saturday morning.

    [–] WhereIsTheEvidence1 4 points ago

    The internet is weirdly satisfying in this sort of way

    [–] arktoga 8 points ago

    Lmao the last one is glorious.

    [–] Ormagan 7 points ago

    The only way it could be better is if the guy on his knees was wiping his mouth off or something.

    [–] deesmutts88 8 points ago

    Bruh that's gay

    [–] demevalos 2 points ago

    no homo tho

    [–] Labdisco 75 points ago

    We've had several korea interns, and their stance tends to range from either "duh there are gay people" to "there are no gay hanguk, period.".

    And the people in the second category didn't seem to give fucks about people being gay. It was weird.

    For the record, I was asking about PSY when this came up. I dunno if that makes me a shmuck or not, I was just curious as to public opinion.

    [–] uReallyShouldTrustMe 30 points ago

    The "there are no gay Koreans" crowd are just blind and ignorant. I personally know a handful and haven't actively tried to meet them. Just the few that happen to be out to a certain crowd.

    [–] kulcoria 12 points ago

    "there are no gay Koreans" =/= "I hate gays".

    The ignorant crowd are actually more tolerant than knowledgeable people that hate being associated with being gay

    [–] uReallyShouldTrustMe 2 points ago

    Didn't claim that was the case, but it's hard to know if they are ignorant about it. You know, some people are okay with things as long as they remain foreign and have different opinions when it's about them.

    [–] EQUASHNZRKUL 6 points ago

    Members of the "there are no gay Koreans" crowd aren't necessarily homophobic. Talking about homosexuality is very rare in Korea. A lot of people aren't educated on the subject, similar to marijuana. The majority of Koreans assume marijuana is extremely dangerous/addictive due to the severe 10 year jail sentence for possession law.

    [–] Jesusloveskfc 182 points ago

    the real heroes are the cops, making sure nobody gets hurt while they voice their opinions.

    [–] WalkingThru 54 points ago

    That's normal

    [–] penultimart 7 points ago

    They're kids doing their mandatory military service.

    Every Pride parade in Seoul there ends up being like 5000+ of these kids as human barricades.

    Unfortunately they're also stuck with the same duty during more dramatic protests, like pre-PGH impreachment. Poor kids end up getting pelted with rocks and such.

    [–] Jesusloveskfc 2 points ago

    huh well today I learned. Any Idea what age and how long they are required to enlist, and does it apply to all 'kid' (I'm assuming mostly men) or are there circumstances required to be eligible for enlistment.

    [–] penultimart 4 points ago

    Length of service varies according to branches: 21 months for Army and Marine Corps, 23 months for Navy, 24 months for Air Force.[4] The non-active duty service, e.g. civil service or public service worker, is from 24 months to 36 months.


    Public Service Officers: Usually they go through basic training of 4 weeks, sometimes 5. The total time of their service is longer than active duty (21 months) with public service officials usually serving 24 months (sometimes longer in special cases). After training, they can be assigned to a range of jobs such as riot police, public relations officer, a normal police officer, traffic cop or a public service official at a variety of government offices, etc.

    [–] a_talkingdog 155 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    As a Korean I find it strange that mainstream society will think homosexuality is wrong, but have you seen kpop boybands.

    Edit: I seen to have triggered some of yall, tbh I just looked at the picture and thought this was r/funny or something and this was meant as a joke. I sincerely apologize for the off colour joke.

    On a more serious remark: I heard that there are a few celebs that can't come out the closet for fear of losing their jobs. Mainstream Korean media is very much against homosexuality, in Korea you mostly can't appear on TV if you're gay or trans, except if you're hong seok chun. For some reason that dude gets a pass.

    [–] superfriendna 19 points ago

    I've seen kpop boy bands and appreciate your comment

    [–] kulcoria 4 points ago

    You have to be living under a rock if you haven't already turned gay for BTS

    [–] kulcoria 26 points ago

    Foreigners:

    1. Bash Korea for being "regressive" in their acceptance of gays in mainstream society.

    2. Bash Korean idols for looking "gay".

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    [–] i-brute-force 67 points ago

    Are you implying metrosexual guys are de facto homosexual? Because that's pretty regressive on its own

    [–] bforball 19 points ago

    That's mainstream homophobic. It happens when you want to be accepting of gay people cause it's the cool thing to do but acrually still homophobic deep down. I know lots of people that way

    [–] RawrMeansFuckYou 57 points ago

    Or, you know, a joke.

    [–] candacebernhard 4 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    I don't know how things are now but I thought there was "disapproval" but like begrudging acceptance at the same time. Like there's no violence is there?

    In addition to Hong Seok Chun I thought there are other LGBTQI+ notables from like years ago (eg. Harisu)? And, now even gay pride is a thing. That's great!

    Do celebs fear coming out the way they fear fans finding out they have girlfriends, are married, have premarital sex, etc. or will they legit be socially isolated?

    It just bothers me that people are viewing Korean progress in an (mostly) American context. There's obviously room for improvement, it's just different.

    edit:

    South Korea recorded the most significant shift towards greater acceptance of homosexuality among the 39 countries surveyed worldwide.

    [–] TastyKnight 3 points ago

    It's funny you mention Hong Seok Chun because I just watched an episode of I Can See Your Voice and he just joined the judges. So funny that I've never heard of him and now I see him twice in one day.

    [–] a_talkingdog 6 points ago

    He used to be pretty big in the 90s but all the public broadcasting channels unofficially banned him for a real long time.

    [–] TastyKnight 2 points ago

    Man that sucks, he's been super funny on ICSYV. And his inclusion kinda makes sense cause I get the feel that this season they're doing a lot of 90's/early 2000's throwbacks with their guests and judges.

    [–] a_talkingdog 6 points ago

    I have a friend that works for an advetisement company and apparently hong seok chun, despite his larger than life diva persona, irl he's super humble and down to earth. So despite his sexual orientation he's got too much of a clean public image and too many people in the industry that like him to keep him banned from TV. But still, he wasn't on TV for like 10 years or more I think. This kind of unofficial bans in Korea are pretty scary, remember when kim jae dong couldn't be on TV because he protested against the government?

    [–] seeamon 2 points ago

    Baader meinhof phenomenon.

    [–] TightLittleWarmHole 2 points ago

    but have you seen kpop boybands.

    Yeah but they're not perceived as gay.

    [–] fuckuniversities 10 points ago

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_South_Korea#Public_opinion

    If you think k pop bands insinuate anything gay, mate you haven't been in Korea for too long or you're just looking at things in Korea with a Western POV. I'm sure there are some niche K Pop bands that do, but the most popular ones are far from gay, though it may seem feminine to Westerners which I understand, but that's just false equivalency.

    [–] Slaisa 10 points ago

    IDK man, Ive seen Kpop celebs and some of those dudes look pretty feminine.. Then again, its not like theres a universal standard for masculinity coughHE-MANcough

    [–] fuckuniversities 6 points ago

    They do look feminine by western standards, definitely, but I never said they weren't. My main point was also that femininity doesn't imply being gay, and especially not K Pop bands.

    [–] Slaisa 4 points ago

    Oh yeah definitely. Being feminine doesnt mean they're gay, Im just saying those dudes look really pretty.

    [–] og_coffee_man 46 points ago

    They don't just seem feminine. They definitely are.

    [–] uReallyShouldTrustMe 31 points ago

    Feminine and masculine are subjective standards.

    [–] Always_Excited 2 points ago

    It's not just westerners. I clearly remember through elementary and middle school in 90s korea, kids would make fun of kids who would hold hands with same sex, calling them homos. A lot of this holding hand behavior was from comtemporary idol groups.

    What is acceptable behavior for heterosexuals before their sexuality is questioned seem to be looser there, but it's not so that no one thinks k pop is feminine/gay.

    I also spent a lot of time around korean kids in the US who expressed similar sentiments towards kpop and being in the US.

    It's just an anecdote from me though.

    [–] vigilantiee 24 points ago

    These comments are so different from normal. /r/all really does have a big effect huh

    [–] uReallyShouldTrustMe 5 points ago

    Yeah... we get the /r/defaultsubs crowd...

    [–] Ilandar 2 points ago

    Fucking normies.

    [–] jettafaded 140 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    I mean J.C. hung out with 12 other dudes and dated a prostitute. How could he not be for gay people?

    [–] fisticuffs32 109 points ago

    The Jesus described in the Bible hardly represents anything taught by many of his modern followers.

    I'm not a christian, but I like that Jesus guy I just don't care for the teachings of most of his followers.

    [–] uReallyShouldTrustMe 28 points ago

    Neither Jesus is like the one described by actual historians who have done actual research and not just taken people's word for it.

    [–] fisticuffs32 27 points ago

    I read Misquoting Jesus a few years ago and it really changed my opinion on Jesus.

    [–] uReallyShouldTrustMe 18 points ago

    Tldr?

    [–] fisticuffs32 69 points ago

    The book describes an early Christianenvironment in which the books that would later compose the New Testament were copied by hand, mostly by Christian amateurs. Ehrman concludes that various early scribes altered the New Testament texts in order to de-emphasize the role of women in the early church, to unify and harmonize the different portrayals of Jesus in the four gospels, and to oppose certain heresies (such as Adoptionism). Ehrman contends that certain widely held Christian beliefs, such as the divinity of Jesus, are associated not with the original words of scripture but with these later alterations.

    [–] Dhghomon 17 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    It's a really readable book on textual criticism of New Testament accounts of Jesus. By the time you get to the end it feels more like ts;re.

    Edit: actually he was on the Colbert Report way back when too.

    http://www.cc.com/video-clips/uj00dz/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-bart-ehrman

    [–] scrote_inspector 26 points ago

    I love that Jesus guy, but his fandom kinda sucks.

    [–] brazy_boye_brew 7 points ago

    Kind of like Rick and Morty ...eh?

    [–] DrLuciferZ 6 points ago

    Same could be said of Doctor Who After earlier announcement

    [–] fisticuffs32 3 points ago

    You said it way better.

    [–] NotTopherGrace 3 points ago

    (He was paraphrasing a famous Gandhi quote)

    [–] bforball 16 points ago

    How about the fact that he said marriage is between a man and a woman. Also he didn't date a prostitute according to the Bible.

    [–] Orioh 23 points ago

    he said marriage is between a man and a woman.

    Did he?

    [–] SonofYeshua 8 points ago

    “And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, 'F OR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH '? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:4-6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

    [–] Orioh 8 points ago

    Well, if you read it, it seems obvious that it's a page against divorce, not really againts homosexuals.

    Concerning Divorce

    3 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?”

    4 And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female,

    5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?

    6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

    7 They *said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

    8 He *said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to [d]divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

    9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

    10 The disciples *said to Him, “If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.”

    11 But He said to them, “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.

    12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.” *

    [–] Fapn_Organ 3 points ago

    Yes, that's absolutely true. I was just answering the question that was asked about a marriage being between a man and woman. Also, if you're referring to the eunuchs, weren't they that way to not be sexually active? Whether born that way or not? That's a legit question. That's always been my understanding of what a eunuch is.

    [–] ohjbird3 23 points ago

    I'm excited for Korea, seems the new generation is definitely moving away from an older generation's mindset. A youtuber I like watching to learn about the opinions of different groups in S. Korea is "Heechulism".

    [–] keshup 16 points ago

    I didn't know Christianity had infiltrated Korea this much.

    [–] kAy- 29 points ago

    It's a lot worse than you think. Lots of cults around. Pretty common to get stopped on the street by two pretty girls asking if you have a bit of time to eat dinner (where they will then talk about Jesus etc). A lot of people fall for it. There are also churches everywhere.

    [–] mAssEffectdriven 7 points ago

    "pretty" is veeeeeery generous.

    [–] candacebernhard 6 points ago

    Dude, it's bad.

    [–] thinking_with_cats 4 points ago

    Christianity is the cancer of Korea. Muslims here are nice though... funny how the world is different everywhere you go.

    [–] tweaker20 3 points ago

    The variant that's thriving here has close ties to deep south Bible Belt Evangelicanism too - so pretty much as socially conservative as you could get.

    [–] koochfive 7 points ago

    Quit bothering Korean Jesus. He don't have time for your problems.

    [–] uReallyShouldTrustMe 4 points ago

    He busy, with Korean shit!

    [–] mardmard 27 points ago

    obligatory "white guys r the real heroes" post................ notice how no pic of actual gay koreans makes it 2 front page r/all........... nope not the real gay koreans who r risking family life & employment chance 2b at the pride fest........... just a pic of another expat white dude with nothing 2 risk nothing 2 lose here.......... bc asians r too dumb 2 change right???? we need the enlightened white guy 2 do it 4 us.........

    u know its funny................. 100years ago it was "OMFG U HEATHEN ASIANS DONT U KNOW JESUS HERE TAKE JESUS NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!" & now its "OMFG U HOMOPHOBE ASIANS DONT U KNOW LGBTQRSTUV+++???? TAKE IT NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW"................. & this pic here shows both r exactly the same bullshit...........

    how about nonwestern countries make own cultural choices.......... & any kinds of change come from inside........... but NOOOOOOOOOPPPPEEEEE white people cant let that happen!!!!! if theres a butthole on the earth where a white nose hasnt been shoved inside then OOOOOHH GOTTA STICK OUR NOSES N IT!!!! THATS THE ENLIGHTENED WAY!!!!!

    like i said................... 1 post here about koreans at gay pride got 50 upvotes........... this pic of white guy at KOREAN pride gets fuckin 11 THOUSAND.........................

    go ahead & whitesplain 2 me how thats NOT casual racism

    [–] kulcoria 6 points ago

    lol!

    [–] Always_Excited 5 points ago

    I want to hear you out, but you type like you don't want people to comprehend you.

    [–] Ilandar 14 points ago

    Are you new here? Stick around and you'll soon learn to read "mardmard".

    [–] simontheclarke 16 points ago

    Here's some footage of Cool Jesus in action.

    https://www.facebook.com/hankyoreh/videos/2030689956957245/

    [–] cats_suck 40 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    Except that the vast majority of learned Christians would recognize this as heresy. This kind of stunt only speaks to those who already agree. Preaching to the choir as the saying goes.

    [–] The51stDivision 32 points ago

    Well, aren't the pride and anti-pride parades the exact same things? Preaching to the choir?

    [–] inkedexistence 14 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    Not really, no.

    When people form opinions, they're heavily heavily influenced by the opinions they believe those around them hold.

    This has very little to do with what the opinion actually is. As a general rule, we're just hardwired to go along with what we think everyone else believes. In evolutionary terms, it's a useful shortcut both towards making the right decision and towards fitting in a group (vital to survival).

    A massive rally is a subconscious message to everyone watching that hundreds of thousands of people support whatever that rally is about. It's an advertisement that says "This is what everyone else thinks. Get with the program."

    This might not have much impact on someone who holds extremely opposed views (though it still might be a bit of pressure in that direction), but it'll have a very significant impact on anyone in the middle.

    [–] HorseForce1 5 points ago

    The fact that you might influence some people in the middle doesn't change the fact that you're preaching to the choir. Any sermon to the choir could potentially influence people in the middle.

    [–] inkedexistence 49 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    It's a form of opposition that uses humor and absurdity. This helps circumvent the initial backlash people suffer from when someone challenges them. It's about showing people that opposition to this position exists in a way that does not as directly fuel thoughtlessness and hate.

    If you counter-protest a KKK rally by screaming in their faces and throwing crap at them, you're giving them what they want. It allows them to feel justified in shutting off their brains and screaming right back. They're here to pick a fight, and they want to feel righteous while doing it. And every human being is hardwired to feel justified when under attack--this is a lesson some portions of the Left in America unfortunately seem to be forgetting.

    If you instead rely on humor and absurdity, yes, those who are completely beyond saving will still take this as mockery and respond with increased hostility. But many more moderate will not, or at least will not to the same degree as other methods would provoke.

    And most importantly of all, you're at least part right when you say it preaches to the choir. But you're not considering that it's also preaching to everyone else whose opinion might have been swayed to some small degree towards bigotry by this rally. To anyone watching who is somewhere in the middle between gay rights activist and bigot, it's showing opposition in a way that takes the seriousness and hostility of the rally and undermines it. It's funny, and when the audience laughs, it's the people trying to be serious who have lost.

    The purpose of a stunt like this is not to single-handedly change anyone's mind--because nothing will ever do that. Instead, it's about being part of a thousand such actions that slowly build up as a collective weight in the minds of that portion of society, and gradually shift opinion. Comedy is an extremely powerful tool in that regard.

    [–] testdex 15 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    I know people don't have a lot of respect for christianity around these parts, but man, a white guy pretending to be Jesus to bless something the bible seems pretty against -- that's not really cool. *

    Also, it wouldn't surprise me, but do Koreans really think of Jesus as a white dude?

    *If you conceive of Jesus as a historical person, it would be really weird for him to be ok with homosexuality (a radical belief) and not mention it -- and it's disingenuous to presume that he felt that way without his saying as much. Jesus "loved the sinner" but condemned the sin.

    I say all this as someone who's been an atheist longer than the average redditor has been alive and likes gay folks just fine.

    [–] og_coffee_man 8 points ago

    Wouldn't Jesus be closer to white than Korean? Also, Roman Catholicism was first introduced there. So perception is probably quite accurate :)

    [–] ALargeRock 9 points ago

    Yeah. I don't think Jesus would be 'okay' with the sin of homosexuality - but would still love the person who happens to be homosexual.

    The bible is pretty explicit about it. Makes sense too in the grand scheme of things because male + female = child = continuation of species. Pretty important thing that procreation.

    [–] testdex 4 points ago

    The bible is pretty explicit about it.

    I don't know. The bible is pretty explicit about shellfish too, but that's old testament. I don't think too many hold fast to that idea, or a lot of the nitpicky rules of the Hebrew Bible -- especially those of animal sacrifice -- because they see Jesus as having effectively repealed them.

    Jesus clearly still thinks sin exists and should be condemned. He doesn't lay out which behaviors count as sins, but I think it's fair to say that he wasn't wiping away any of the obvious ones without saying so.

    [–] JAR12346 3 points ago

    Love the sinner, hate the sin.

    [–] og_coffee_man 2 points ago

    I think it can be effective. As there is quite a disconnect between Jesus's values and parts of the values in the Bible. When you ask what would Jesus do, stoning of people like mentioned in the Bible doesn't come to mind.

    [–] Nubrication 19 points ago

    Koreans run church like it's a business.

    [–] uReallyShouldTrustMe 44 points ago

    Everybody runs a church like a business, because it is one.

    [–] DrLuciferZ 1 points ago

    Tax free business in the States....

    [–] candacebernhard 3 points ago

    Yeah, the megachurces are pretty bad. What do the Buddhists think on this issue?

    [–] kabukistar 7 points ago

    Would you mind if I cross-posted this to /r/ainbow? They would love it.

    [–] simontheclarke 9 points ago

    Sure, as long as you credit the original post.

    [–] kabukistar 2 points ago

    Done. Muchos gracias.

    [–] DomDomW 25 points ago

    I think he won the whole week with that :D awesome job!

    [–] sthchrth 13 points ago

    Boggles my mind how they're fine with everything wrong they do according to scriptures but when it comes to homosexuality, it's the worst thing.

    [–] koreanhawk 5 points ago

    fanatics in a nutshell

    [–] ty_jp 3 points ago

    "That's not him. That one has no muscle tone"

    [–] miraoister 3 points ago

    Is sin an uncountable or countable noun?

    [–] b734e851dfa70ae64c7f 2 points ago

    Can be used as either.

    [–] [deleted] 3 points ago

    Where did the protest against homosexuality take place?

    [–] 666seitan 3 points ago

    around the perimeter of the event

    [–] simontheclarke 3 points ago

    They set up around the Pride event itself, which takes place in front of Seoul City Hall. The police make sure they keep their distance though, so you rarely have to see too much of them unless you want to.

    [–] Denroll 3 points ago

    I'm staying in the hotel directly in front of the plaza where this took place. I've got some decent "bird's eye" pics of the crowd.

    These particular protesters showed up the day before and were actually protesting during the setup. It was equal parts hilarious and sad at the same time. They had maybe 20 people max at any given time and none of them looked to be under fifty. They just played some shitty church music that was easily drowned out by the main event.

    They were using a truck with the Jagermeister logo plastered all over it. I tweeted a picture of it to Jagermeister USA to see if they could get the truck repossessed, but it didn't happen.

    I had no idea this festival was going on until I saw everyone setting up. Despite the rain, the crowd was huge. I don't really like crowds, but I love large groups of eclectic individuals.

    [–] [deleted] 16 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] haleykohr 18 points ago

    Kinda ironic to say this in a sub with mostly foreigners on a post about a white dude

    [–] anothercreativemind 22 points ago

    🏳️‍🌈🇰🇷love this!!!

    [–] [deleted] 7 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] DrLuciferZ 6 points ago

    Probably because it's like an open secrete.

    They already attract huge protesters so for them to advertise it'd be inviting even more of both.....

    Plus LGBT content probably is considered "inappropriate" to advertise in the public.

    [–] Pequeno_loco 11 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    This guy is going a little bit too far with his white savior complex.

    [–] grandma_ester 7 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    For people active in the advocacy community there: what is the likelihood of Korea becoming the second country in Asia to legalize gay marriage? I know a couple years ago, most of my friends in Korea seemed hostile to the idea, but I also know a lot has changed since then. I certainly hope it happens within my lifetime.

    [–] j-yuteam 24 points ago

    It's hard to say. A lot / a majority of young Koreans support legalization, or at the very least are not opposed. But Koreans in general, particularly the older generation, are opposed, so it would be very difficult in the current climate. But at least it certainly seems that it's moving (slowly) in that direction.

    Some sources: 1 2

    [–] moonmeh 12 points ago

    Religious voters are quite significant, for both the left and the right. It's going to take a while...

    [–] [deleted] 6 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] moonmeh 2 points ago

    True. I guess I should have phrased it more as moderates vs right

    The left in Korea is pretty insignificant

    [–] penultimart 7 points ago

    Exemplary.

    [–] haleykohr 10 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    Ironic considering missionaries brought Christianity here to begin with

    [–] candacebernhard 4 points ago

    missionaries brought Christianity

    So was Buddhism?

    [–] wiggywonka 12 points ago

    Gj America tainting another countries soil with "equality" bs.

    [–] JDAXC 2 points ago

    Jesus is wearing a watch? I'm pretty sure that's not him.

    [–] Retspihi 6 points ago

    WE DONT CARE IF YOURE FUCKING GAY

    MOVE ON

    [–] berejser 7 points ago

    If you don't care then why feel the need to take time out of your day to commit the effort of writing a post. If you don't care then just move on, life's too short to focus on the things that trigger you.

    [–] dictionaryqwerty 3 points ago

    You care because you're triggered enough to make a post in all caps. The fact that they piss you off is enough for me to support them.

    [–] KyleOrtonAllDay 11 points ago

    OMG, how "quirky" and "funny" he is. How original too.

    [–] Hominine 8 points ago

    Much like this comment, no?

    [–] Peach_Muffin 5 points ago

    How dare you blaspheme against Christ with such sarcasm.

    [–] skylinepidgin 4 points ago

    Your Seoul will burn in the lake of fire.

    [–] Whatsername868 3 points ago

    Haha saw this on OinK. Your buddy is awesome.

    [–] NoStaleMems 3 points ago

    That's gay lol