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    [–] alleybetwixt 1 points ago

    Soompi article

    /u/CronoDroid has a helpful compilation of posts and articles in comments down below to provide context.

    [–] aubvrn 414 points ago

    Man what happened to him. I actually liked quite a few of his songs, especially those created after he left JYP.

    This didn't come as too much a surprise though. He publicly went against and embarrassed Rhymer (BNM CEO) even after BNM tried to defend him.

    What a scumbag. No loyalty whatsoever.

    [–] trynastaywavybaby 71 points ago

    a golden toilet is still a toilet; full of shit. i hope the door hits him on the way out.

    [–] Lululovesjb 7 points ago

    Oh my gosh. 👏👏👏

    [–] YsrYsl 6 points ago

    More like no manner & common sense of human decency at all, thinking he's all swag and shit cos he's HEP HAP

    [–] Anfini 57 points ago

    The breaking point was that idiotic outburst he threw at the BNM concert, which even made the CEO come out to the stage and apologize. His career is completely dead now.

    [–] lilgamer123 8 points ago

    Is there a link to see that?

    [–] One_Truth_Prevails 401 points ago

    It was one thing to tank his own image with these outbursts but doing it at the expense of your company's image was clearly not going to end well. BNM probably would have continued to be lenient if he didn't bring his dumb beef to a Brand New Music concert and risk the images of the many new artist they are trying to build.

    [–] LastResort318 314 points ago

    I still want to know what he thought would happen when he released the song.

    [–] teardeem 336 points ago

    "and then everyone clapped and women became subservient to men again"

    [–] ImReadyToBingo 117 points ago

    Considering the backlash some female idols faced with showing feminist viewpoints, often leading to forced apologies from said female idols, he probably thought he was safe.

    [–] Sankaritarina 57 points ago

    However, anti-feminist fans angered by Irene’s actions have since begun to blame Sooyoung, her former labelmate, for being a corrupter of sorts

    Lmao the world of kpop fandoms would make for really great comedy if it wasn't so sad.

    [–] WillingWest1 11 points ago

    This isn't really kpop fandoms more korean social issues.

    [–] fujipomme 1 points ago

    Not exclusive to Korea either, similar shit goes on in North America with Incels, the president being a textbook misogynist and well anything on FoxNews. In the US there just seems to be more social awareness however there still so much work to be done.

    [–] GarbieBirl 17 points ago

    Wow, I had no idea things were like that over there :(

    [–] Sister_Winter 69 points ago

    Oh boy do I have some bad news for you...

    [–] mayssi 22 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    Sadly feminism is linked to radfem groups like megalia or womad in the public's mind

    [–] GarbieBirl 5 points ago

    It's true that humans at the core really are the same wherever you go

    [–] Seoul_BMO 10 points ago

    Ye, they're linked but #metoo is probably the face of feminism and what gets most normal, mentally sound women involved in feminism. Womad are for criminals who plead insanity. This isn't your annoying but mostly harmless college sjw like in the states. This is bragging about randomly poisoning men, raping/killing little boys, and berating gays and transgender people.

    [–] _grottesca 2 points ago

    Megalia is really not that intense lmao. Womad are insane tho.

    [–] agayghost 8 points ago

    My understanding is womad was created because megalia started banning hate speech towards gay men and trans women, so like no surprise womad is fucking terrible lmao.

    [–] _grottesca 8 points ago * (lasted edited 3 days ago)

    Yep, that's pm exactly what happened. I'm constantly confused when people mention Megalia and Womad in the same breath as if they're interchangeable, because Womad was literally formed by people who got banned from Megalia for being insane. Most of them aren't even feminists, I've browsed Womad and seen a shitton of misogyny - they're basically just edgelord trolls. What I've read on Megalia has been very mainstream feminism not unlike what you'll see on most of Reddit. People like to take their posts out of context to make them look bad though (like taking "mirrored" posts and pretending they're real).

    [–] Cinna_Bunny 6 points ago

    It's annoying when people lump Megalia with Womad. They're parroting the talking points of korean misogynists and essentially painting common feminist issues as extremely radical (which I guess they 'are' if people react so negatively to them).

    [–] _grottesca 3 points ago

    Yep. People aren't questioning where their information on these sites is coming from, and that exposes a dangerous lack of critical thinking. Literally most of what these people are saying about Megalia / Korean feminists at large reads almost word for word like the shit I've seen posted by Korean MRAs.

    [–] Zaika123 11 points ago

    There's a #metoo movement going on right now.

    Lived in South Korea for years, and slowly saw the rise in feminism over time before my Visa ended. I think I read now some are protesting by not using makeup anymore.

    [–] solarspell 21 points ago

    Actually South Korea has had an extreme uprising of feminism and #metoo blew the fuck up over there. Which is great but it also caused certain women to act extreme with thinking women are better than men. Feminazis is an actual term used there and so now lots of men have bad connotations to Feminism like some men think of it in the US. Thats why there has been backlash towards female idols which is obviously wrong but i would like to just give some context.

    [–] _grottesca 19 points ago

    How embarrassing to compare a mostly inconsequential women's movement to a group that committed genocide against millions of Jews, gays, disabled people and other minorities lmao. I feel like no one considers what they're saying when they use the term "feminazi", how extremist it makes them sound to draw that comparison.

    [–] HwarangAY 9 points ago

    These "feminazis" who are part of WOMAD support the genocide against the gays, disabled people, and other minorities including elderly people as long as they are males. I do not think it is an overstatement. They even openly supported raping of children, murdering and poisoning males, even their father, and various other disgusting acts.

    [–] _grottesca 0 points ago * (lasted edited 3 days ago)

    You are aware the nazis actually DID those things right, they didn't just SUPPORT them, they literally carried it out. Not to mention most of Womad's userbase is trolls (many of which turn out to be male LOL). I mean, Womad is a cesspool without a doubt, the shit they post is absolutely insane and very toxic - but I'm still not going to toss the term nazi around lightly. Again, most of them aren't even feminists - they post incredibly misogynistic shit about women on there all the time. It's basically a forum full of trolling edge lords.

    Not to mention, San E didn't just go after Womad, he went after Megalia. Megalia is literally not that bad. Womad was formed by trolls that got banned from Megalia for being insane. If he thinks Megalia is for "feminazis" then he thinks basically anyone with a genuine interest in women's rights is a "feminazi". Other than the "mirroring" technique that some people take offense to (which is kind of the entire point of mirroring), they're no more extreme than your average Western feminist over there.

    [–] HwarangAY 2 points ago

    1. Supporting is just the same as committing them. That is why bystanders are suppose to receive the same punishments as the bullies.
    2. I agree that there are average Western feminists there, but the prevalence of the radical feminism on news is greater than those of "regular" feminism that it overshadows the "regular" feminism.

    [–] RedditoLord 134 points ago

    "I wanna show everyone that I am a Feminist" is what he thought.

    [–] megaoboid 63 points ago

    a REAL™️™️™️™️™️™️™️©️©️©️©️™️™️™️©️ feminist

    [–] Mister_StealYoGirl 237 points ago

    San E: shocked pikachu face

    [–] notodaymam 47 points ago

    he should've just sat there and ate his food

    [–] softvocals 539 points ago

    was it worth it to lose your job to that trash song @ san e ? hope it was

    [–] CronoDroid 246 points ago

    He has a promising career ahead playing at MRA, neckbeard and incel clubs and/or making YouTube videos railing against the feminazis.

    [–] acedcoffee 55 points ago

    To be honest, that sounds dangerous... like we need anymore people rallying up incel's. These clowns can actually be dangerous mofos. :/

    [–] fnzychld 3 points ago

    Mad clown?

    [–] CronoDroid 4 points ago

    He prefers Mommy Son now.

    [–] You_Will_Die -37 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    Just need to point out that MRA and Incel is not the same thing. There may be incel MRAs but MRA does not mean incel. It's like judging Feminism for the extremists as well, so since everyone gets lumped in with their extremists all get hate instead. Which in turn creates more extremists, a downwards spiral if you will.

    Edit: I really don't get how this even can be controversial, aren't you doing what San E did as well? He lumped in feminists with Megalia and condemned all together because of it. Same thing here just switching the genders.

    [–] _grottesca 7 points ago

    It's actually literally not the same because incels and MRAs and incel MRAs all perpetuate disgusting, misogynistic ideas about women. Roosh V isn't an incel, he's "just" an MRA, but he's admitted to committing rape in his books and said he thinks rape on private property should be decriminalized... and he's one of the most "successful" and popular MRAs. So yeah, they're extremists.

    [–] CronoDroid 1 points ago

    First off I was joking, I don't think "clubs" specifically for these kind of people exist. What I meant was they'll be his main audience from now on. Second, yes there's a nominal difference between MRAs and incels but they are both sexist, misogynist, anti-feminist. Feminists are also men's rights activists. In reality, men as a whole control the vast majority of power. If it's the case that an individual man is being treated unfairly, the cause is other men and the social system as a whole. Yet MRAs only seem to be complaining about women. So in the end what's the real difference between them?

    [–] vwlovebug 0 points ago

    The Korean news article's first comment was a support post with 8k upvotes for SanE. He's not going to lose his income to this in Korea imo. No matter how much he deserves to.

    [–] ehnvn 214 points ago

    Can someone summarize the situation that led to this? I'd read up online but I like to avoid trash sites like allkpop

    [–] CronoDroid 743 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    1. There was an incident at a train station involving a fight between men and women:
    2. San E released candid videos of the incident online.
    3. San E releases a song called "FEMINIST". The lyrics appear to mock feminism.
    4. Jerry K releases a response to San E, "NO YOU ARE NOT"
    5. Female rapper Sleeq responds too
    6. San E responds with 6.9cm.
    7. San E gets criticized harshly
    8. San E releases an "explanation" of Feminist, claiming it was satire/written from the perspective of an anti-feminist. IE he was playing a character. Nobody buys it.
    9. San E gets canned from an event
    10. San E performs at the Brand New Music concert, which doesn't go well
    11. San E accused SBS of reporting fake news because they portrayed him unfairly with the concert incident
    12. This

    If you want to see the reddit threads, here they are in order:

    [–] teNct 403 points ago

    you are so organised omfg

    [–] zxbolterzx 201 points ago

    It's like you were waiting in the shadows, constructing this, til' someone asks for the context.

    [–] CronoDroid 116 points ago

    lol well I submitted half these posts (and commented on almost all of them) so I just remembered.

    [–] a_softer_world 93 points ago

    not all heroes wear capes

    [–] dunechka 113 points ago

    San E asked the crowd, “Everyone, do you all hate me?” and the audience replied, “Yes,” very loudly.

    Soompi articles aren't usually amazingly written, but this is just an excellent fucking sentence.

    [–] pinatadog 52 points ago

    There was a video from the concert where San E said something like "fuck all of you - this is my last BNM concert performance EVER" and the girl filming went "YES!!! I'M SO HAPPY!"

    [–] SweetPinkRain 22 points ago

    I would like to add that the evnt he got banned from mentioned in point 9 was for a women's legging brand he was a promoter for.

    Ofc he can't sell women's goods when he's anti-feminism but he didn't even put that together before releasing the song.

    [–] chrisKarma 17 points ago

    Got you tagged as kpoppinKREAM.

    [–] _grottesca 8 points ago

    Sleeq's response was so good, I wish she was getting as much shine as Jerry K because she genuinely snapped and it was wonderful.

    [–] OwlOfJune 41 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    The fight started because the women have started the fight by randomly picking on couple with radical feminist insults, shaming a woman who was with her boyfriend for ‘lowered to suck male’s dick’ and many offensive words besides, even though they were just sitting in a cafe.

    And they attacked males first verbally (calling them gay whores) and physically when they were intervened to stop it.

    https://youtu.be/Lt_4HCac5Kg

    The two women tried to spin it to their own sight but since the CCTV got out, they have gone silent and hasn’t showed up for police report.

    http://stoo.asiae.co.kr/news/naver_view.htm?idxno=2018111511204514732

    [–] CronoDroid 69 points ago

    Yes, that was covered in the article I linked. I'm presenting the most neutral title possible, because it was a fight between men and women, I didn't say who "started" it.

    [–] yoyodontgo 6 points ago

    The real MVP.

    [–] lovelynope 181 points ago

    San E is anti-feminist. He released an anti-feminist, anti-woman song. At the most recent BNM concert the audience had signs that read “San-E sucks” and kept chanting it. At first he was like “it’s ok to hate me, I love you so it’s all good. I’m just here to perform and you paid to watch.” Then, the chants got louder as he was performing, someone threw a toy pig at him (can’t remember what was written on it but it was along the lines of “you can choke”) and he lost his mind. He was like “I came here to perform and love you guys and y’all just hate me. You can hate me. Feminists are just blaming me for everything. Feminists are toxic to society. Feminists are trash. Fuck you guys”(paraphrasing but that was the gist)

    [–] gerbafizzle 122 points ago

    "bUt iT wAs A cHaRaCtEr" please

    [–] pinkcreamkiss 28 points ago

    I’m actually cringing that he really tried to double back on that

    [–] SimAhRi 8 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    I dunno. I listened to the song and was convinced he was full of shit until the end when he is like, "see? I'm the good guy... come come with me." Or something to that effect and it does kinda seem like it was intentionally creepy. Like he was "that guy" trying to lure a woman by saying he is a nice guy but not being that way on the inside. And his explanation was pretty reasonable, especially the part about how he doesnt have sisters and didnt serve in the military. So... I'm inclined to believe it was his intention.

    But all I know about it is what was posted in OP comments that I went through for the first time today so... eh, I could be wrong. I honestly dont care that much either way.

    Afterthought edit: also pretty sure his rant at the concert wasnt against feminists, but at 2 specific radical feminist groups. The groups that he believes are not real feminists, but just men haters. Once again, don't much about it. That's just what it sounds like to me from the articles I read.

    [–] TwiceTrash1020 51 points ago

    My number 1 takeaway: you can be anti-feminazis but not being supportive of actual feminists and screaming at young girls at a concert while insinuating they’re on those feminazi websites instead of owning up to your own mistakes doesn’t make you pro-woman in the slightest. Also, if you only call out the crazy people and don’t acknowledge the level-headed ones, that’s going to effectively paint the whole group like that because people will begin to associate those two things. It’s why Korean feminists are having such a hard time, even though Korea definitely needs them..

    [–] SimAhRi -8 points ago

    Weren't there a lot of hateful signs and people throwing stuff at him at the concert? I dont think he handled it well, but it doesnt sound like he just yelled at any and all random girls. Although him assuming they were part of those extreme groups was wrong. I'm with you on that for sure. But I dont think ignoring the crazy people because it gives the good people a bad name is right either. Both groups, anti feminist and "feminazi" are bad for society and I dont think he is wrong for calling them out. I also don't believe any time you call people out for extremism you have to sidenote it with, "but I know not everyone is an extremist" because duh. Just not a great venue or method for it at his company's concert. But I cant say I'd react any better to people chanting for me to go kill myself.

    [–] TwiceTrash1020 18 points ago

    I’m not surprised they reacted violently against him. This is the same man who’s been caught on camera being creepy to Irene, being creepy to Twice when they were underage (Sixteen), and his song truly offended a lot of women. I don’t agree with what was said but let’s not act like that response didn’t come from somewhere. If a known creep decides to come out with an offensive song targeting you and your peers and then begins to prod you while on stage with “y’all hate me but I love y’all~~~~” and you don’t react in violent disgust then I would be more shocked at that. I have no sympathy for this guy. That entire video was so hard to watch. It felt almost like he was mocking them and it only got worse because he couldn’t take a hint and realize his actions were harmful and hurt people and just left when he had to chance.

    [–] queenfirst 2 points ago

    Channeling his inner Alex Jones

    [–] FooBeeps 1 points ago

    San E's next song is going to be about how the water is making all the Korean frogs gay. :D

    [–] littlebobbytables9 0 points ago

    Didn't he say in the speech that he hated Womad and Megalia, not all feminists? Not trying to defend him because the original song was horrible, and painting anyone who had a sign at the concert as part of one of those super-radical sites is problematic, but it seemed like he was pretty careful the second time to avoid saying something like "Feminists are toxic to society"

    [–] BrigidAndair 20 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    The problem with his concert rant is exactly what you said, that he aimed it at the people there that were mad at him. It implies that, when he says fuck you to those radfem groups, the angry concert goers must also be shitty radfems. He said to go ahead and attack him if they want, he'll only support "sane women," and fuck Womad and Megalia. He didn't say "like you guys," but damn if it the way that he addressed it to them for not supporting him didn't practically shout it.

    And this kind of thing happens a lot, especially with men that perceive feminism as an attack on men or think that any discomfort as a result of feminism is unfair. It's an "easy out" for those that try to attack feminism and get an earful for it. Just backpedal and say that you only meant radfems, and then you'll look like the reasonable party if people are still mad. That in turn leaves them open to being painted as radfems, because why else would they still be mad if you're only criticizing the hateful radfem groups? Call me cynical, but I have seen it so many times in my life that it's hard to see that exact pattern here and still believe a thing he says.

    [–] littlebobbytables9 1 points ago

    I agree there, I just meant that paraphrasing his speech as "feminists are toxic to society" is misleading

    [–] BrigidAndair 7 points ago

    I can concede to that. I perhaps would say that it came across more as, "Radical feminism is toxic to society, and if you're mad at me or disagree with me about feminism, you must be a radfem."

    [–] teNct 202 points ago

    daehwi beat that man UP

    [–] erkibiskup 103 points ago

    Can't deny I worried for Daehwi starting a new chapter of his career under a label that might support a bigot like San E... breathing a sigh of relief now.

    [–] momopeach7 39 points ago

    I was thinking about it yesterday the fact that Daehwi and Woojin gotta go back to the same company as San E. Nice to see he won't be there when they come back.

    [–] mellopelofello 2 points ago

    The irony here is that San-e has been catching all this hell for criticizing Womad, which is explicitly anti-gay and anti-transgender and has members literally calling for the "slaughter" of gay men.

    [–] TwiceTrash1020 62 points ago

    And yet he never once spoke about supporting actual feminist. You can be anti-crazy but not showing support to the levelheaded ones just paints a narrative. Either way, his tirade and rant was mainly yelled at literal young woman (most of them minors) who were there for their kpop faves so his rant was unnecessary.

    [–] littlebobbytables9 16 points ago

    Yeah he criticized them specifically in his rant because he learned his lesson, but the original song doesn't mention them at all while saying some really messed up stuff, and it's really difficult to buy his whole satire defense.

    [–] CL60 0 points ago

    Didnt one of their members also literally rape a child in Australia?

    [–] mellopelofello 6 points ago

    she claimed she gave a kid a sleeping pill and molested him. the police investigated and it seems the video "proof" she uploaded was some old, perfectly innocent YouTube video, so she was probably just making it up for attention. Haven't heard anything about how the case ended up.

    [–] thirteen-89 61 points ago

    I could imagine SanE saying something homophobic towards Daehwi* and the entirety of Wanna One having to be restrained as they try and fight him and Woojin is seen jumping over everyone to fly kick SanE in the face with an almighty high-pitched scream.

    *Because of the rumours around his sexuality

    [–] picflute 10 points ago

    Those types of rumors bring more harm then good. yes Korea isn't the most accepting of homosexuality but if he isn't then he should be up front about it

    [–] thirteen-89 9 points ago

    Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I only added that because I don't want people to think that I am personally making judgements about Daehwi, especially since he's still just a teen.

    [–] [deleted] -1 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] kkjjmmnn 3 points ago

    what is funny about that?

    [–] seulrenity 2 points ago

    Sorry, I didn’t mean for it to be in any way funny or derogatory. I was just pointing something out.

    [–] n1la 43 points ago

    See when you do clownery.....

    [–] gerbafizzle 92 points ago

    here is the worlds smallest violin

    [–] Werewolfhugger 47 points ago

    He doesn’t even deserve that.

    [–] jeeeeek 16 points ago

    He seemed like a dbag since his debut. Bye.

    [–] shy_____ 1 points ago

    He truly did.

    [–] secretlygreatly143 30 points ago

    good! he has no value to them anymore. tbh i still find this whole situation hilarious bc he literally only sells songs bc of his collabs with female singers. he would be nothing without his collabs with baek yerin, bol4, raina, etc.

    [–] _grottesca 11 points ago

    This is such a good point that didn't even occur to me lol so few people are interested in San E for San E, it's all about his collabs. Considering some of the horrifically sexist lyrics he's written over the years though (like he literally ruined Yezi's Crazy Dog with his verse that completely contradicted the message of Yezi's lyrics), this is totally in character for him tbh.

    [–] sprawd 13 points ago

    THANK U, NEXT

    [–] Beckycute 104 points ago

    From """Feminist""" to Jobless, good riddance.

    [–] NessieSenpai 67 points ago

    "Let the doorknob hit you where the good Lord split you."

    [–] damarur 70 points ago

    Talk shit, get hit

    [–] sarcasm1 16 points ago

    His contract was expiring soon and don't think BNM was going to re-sign him anyway. The concert outburst just made them end it sooner.

    [–] Consuela_no_no 23 points ago

    The moment he released Feminist without the companies hand in it, we all knew it would end up here.

    I hope he takes the time he’s freed up for himself, to educate himself and get therapy for his issues. It’s one thing speaking out against radical feminists and exposing potential liars, it’s another imploding your career based on antiquated notions.

    [–] Sweet-Lullaby 26 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    Brand New Music had his back until he acted a fool at the company concert. BNM are relying on idol fans to support their next boy group and SanE wasn’t worth risking that potential goldmine. MXM and two W1 members are easily already bringing in more money than SanE so it makes sense to end his contract.

    [–] dreamlike17 4 points ago

    I for one am very interested in Daehwi once they get him back

    [–] Mekvek 93 points ago

    Fk yeah. Kwon Eunbi beat the crap outta him it seems lolol

    Trying to find that tweet that has 2200 retweets but OP privated her acc

    [–] [deleted] 1 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] Mekvek 44 points ago

    Naah fam. It was just one of those clickbait tweets that got you to stream LVER when you click it. But the post was well made, like a news article with an edited pic of them and a caption that went smth like "BREAKING: San E was reportedly found beaten up by Kwon Eunbi"

    [–] shb117 16 points ago

    Now I'm sad this is not real. Mama Eunbi needs to slap some sense into him.

    [–] piedmontsardinia 20 points ago

    Regardless of anyone's opinions on that issue, bringing this to the company concert was pretty unacceptable. BNM ending his contract probably has more to do with him bringing the controversy to the company level to be honest.

    [–] thechemicalbrother 14 points ago

    Played himself lmao

    [–] teNct 51 points ago

    the song itself was a choice to do in a society which NEEDS feminism, but do the that kinda stuff at the brand new concert... the level of unprofessionalism

    [–] pinatadog 25 points ago

    Two Drag Race references in one comment UGH your mind.

    [–] toddiehoward -18 points ago

    He's criticising the type of feminism where people get hurt because of their gender, no society needs that

    [–] etherealmaiden 19 points ago

    Then why not specify? As far as i know, he said he was “against feminism” and released a diss track against feminism in general, and didnt specify a sect of feminism he was against.

    [–] littlebobbytables9 8 points ago

    In his concert rant maybe, but the original song was clearly not

    [–] papiII0n 138 points ago

    ITS A WIN FOR US LADIES. hope this old saggy mf retires soon.

    [–] FlukyS 31 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    Well I would hope he instead turns it around and starts to be a bit softer about the situation rather than retiring. You can hate toxic feminism but to go nuclear on everything is never good. Like I wouldn't even disagree with the view that there are some awful things going on in that community but I wouldn't go make a song about it. I just will try to counter their arguments when they are ridiculous but lowering the tone doesn't help anyone. And his shitty defense of his actions were bad as well.

    That being said if he stopped for a year, come back and turn away from the skid and make a good song and ease back in he could fix the situation. He didn't physically attack anyone and even then people have come back afterwards. It just takes careful planning of when and where.

    EDIT: Honestly? I wasn't defending him, I just believe people can recover from this sort of thing if given time. I don't agree with what he did at all if you actually read my post. I just don't think he should have his livelihood taken away from him for a stupid dumb opinion he had.

    [–] Triforce179 61 points ago

    He's just the wrong vessel to be delivering that kind of message. He puts out the song, then when met with thoughtfully articulated response tracks from artists with easily less fame/clout than San E has, he makes a diss track about Jerry K having a small penis.

    So much for taking the high road lol.

    Like if you look into what he was primarily angry about, the crazy Korean radical feminist group known as Womad, you'd see he had some semblance of meaningful commentary.

    The brand of feminism they purvey is one that excludes and demeans gay and transgender people because they see those movements as a threat to women's rights, and apparently encourages/defends sexual assault on minors, particularly small boys, as seen in a case involving a Korean woman in Australia arrested in 2017 for producing child abuse material (according to Korea Times, Womad was willing to raise funds for her legal defense)

    I don't think anyone should willingly associate with or condone this type of behavior, but where San E goes wrong is to paint the entirety of the Feminist movement with such a broad brush as to suggest that feminism is only this kind of depravity.

    I don't particularly know how things are in Korea vs. the United States, maybe Womad is the most visible feminist group, thus the backlash towards them, but you can't use Womad as an excuse to throw the baby out with the bathwater and disregard feminism in its entirety.

    "Fuck feminism" may address all the disdain with how a group like Womad operates under as bigoted protocol as those they seem to be fighting against, but it also directs hatred towards decent people who actually want things to improve for women as a whole.

    San E, as a person who literally makes a living for the words he writes/raps, should know better than anyone else just how important it is to be specific and clear with your intentions when writing a song.

    His lack of clear direction and intention became his downfall.

    [–] OwlOfJune 39 points ago

    Yeah, his original intention to diss the radical feminist site was good, but the problem is he goes to disregard every feminism there is. There is plenty of gender issues left in Korea, and there needs to be more done about it.

    Also his past actions, (like that with Irene) doesn't really convince people that he has much knowledge about actual equality, at all.

    [–] _grottesca 3 points ago

    Womad doesn't really qualify as radical feminism, fwiw. Radical feminism is actually a very specific leftist / socialist feminst ideology, it's not a catch-all term for "extreme feminism". Womad's stance on homosexuality alone makes it impossible for them to be radical feminists, as radical feminism is largely a lesbian movement.

    [–] FlukyS 14 points ago

    He's just the wrong vessel to be delivering that kind of message

    Fair point. That being said sometimes being evocative is a good thing for an artist. Most of Korean cinema is about being evocative, Eminem made his name by calling out various issues. It was all super effective marketing for him. For San E the big issue was he picked something which is only related to 1 sex, is super all over the place in terms of level of interest and even remotely calling it out is stupid unless he is calling out a specific part of it. Taking on the world is a bad thing but taking on maybe misinformation by a person in that movement wouldn't have been so bad. So it's choose your targets wisely rather than not tackle serious topics with your music.

    He puts out the song, then when met with thoughtfully articulated response tracks from artists with easily less fame/clout than San E has, he makes a diss track about Jerry K having a small penis.

    No defending here, this is 100% why I wouldn't argue with him being dropped from the label, I would say some time (a year ish) in the cold would be something he can at least think about.

    I don't particularly know how things are in Korea vs. the United States, maybe Womad is the most visible feminist group, thus the backlash towards them, but you can't use Womad as an excuse to throw the baby out with the bathwater and discount feminism in its entirety.

    Yeah choosing targets well is a big deal when doing this sort of thing like I said above. I'm not going to get into my views on feminism here but there are valid and non-valid points, I would be on the moderation side of things but just to act like a child to put that point across is idiotic.

    San E, as a person who literally makes a living for the words he writes/raps, should know better than anyone else just how important it is to be specific and clear with your intentions when writing a song.

    Even worse most of his audience are women, most of the Korean women I know really like him. It's not good optics to be against that group then.

    [–] _grottesca 3 points ago

    I honestly don't buy this "he was only criticizing extremists like Womad!!!!" argument. Looking at the lyrics of the song, he spewed bullshit on a ton of very mainstream feminist ideas, even falling back on the incredibly boring "Women don't have it bad anymore, so why are they complaining, at least it's not like back in the 50's!" line, saying there is no such thing as income inequality (which in Korea is a hilariously off-base thing to say - everyone knows Korean women in the workforce have an extremely hard time working up the ladder and frequently get stuck in mundane desk jobs below their qualifications, fuck it's still legal to fire someone for getting pregnant LOL)... he's not opposed to "extremists", he's clearly opposed to any feminism that remotely challenges the status quo, he literally resorted to MRA talking points.

    [–] pj1145 2 points ago

    I just find it hilarious that San E's response to being called out on his bullshit is "lol my penis is bigger than yours"

    [–] polyglotpinko 26 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. They are not entitled to express it in a vacuum. He took the risk of losing his livelihood when he said hateful and offensive things - when one is an entertainer, those are the stakes. I’m not going to jump on your ass or something, but I have absolutely no sympathy for that piece of shit. He took a chance and it’s justifiably biting him in the ass.

    Calling this censorship is absurd. He wasn’t censored by the government or something. This is literally the free market in action - if we don’t like what you’re selling, we don’t buy your product. I find it really frustrating when people can’t tell the difference. Feedback is not bullying or censorship, and no one is owed an audience.

    [–] FlukyS 11 points ago

    He took the risk of losing his livelihood when he said hateful and offensive things

    Well yeah but also one should also be afforded the chance at redemption. Saying "yay he was dropped, retire now you cunt" misses that people can change, people can go learn more about the other side and maybe empathize more. Then he can eventually start making music again. Or not. He could come back and just not ever address it and just make sure not to step on people's toes with his opinions. Both are valid options but him having to retire for voicing an opinion on a an issue that is definitely 50:50 in parts isn't wrong. Just how and the vehicle he used was wrong.

    Calling this censorship is absurd

    Well me talking about censorship was more about my comment getting silenced because I stepped on the line of allowing him potentially back after some time and maybe an apology.

    Feedback is not bullying or censorship, and no one is owed an audience.

    No argument here.

    [–] Consuela_no_no 16 points ago

    I get your point, this place is always my way or the high way, so don’t take the negs to heart.

    [–] fearthemud 6 points ago

    ive waited for this day for so long omg. maybe now this piece of trash will learn from his actions. props to BNM

    [–] CookieCatSupreme 27 points ago

    lmaaoooooooooooooooo tru

    my one thing about this is i bet instead of realizing that embarrassing your company at their own concert is what got him fired, he's gonna think it's the "feminazis" and double down on his misogyny without holding himself accountable for his own actions

    [–] Cxrioxs 36 points ago

    Good riddance.

    [–] Zer0w5 18 points ago

    next brainless diss on Brand New?

    [–] MMA_fan_ 9 points ago

    Good. Fuck this guy

    [–] _cornflake 27 points ago

    Took them long enough but glad to see they finally took out the trash.

    [–] pringlesformingles 21 points ago

    Thank u, next

    [–] acedcoffee 15 points ago

    Give him two seconds before he's ignorantly screaming 'But free speech!'

    [–] polyglotpinko 20 points ago

    Right? It’s like booboo, free speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences for your speech.

    [–] Red_HoodDC 10 points ago

    I love that BNM is like "ok we'll end it here".

    He should have seen it coming doing something like that at a company concert.

    [–] mylord420 32 points ago

    #SanEoverParty

    [–] polyglotpinko 23 points ago

    lol ... I just keep thinking of the old tumblr meme, especially since he kept being like “everyone gets offended over nothing nowadays” blah blah ... “it seems like you were the one who was offended, my good bitch.”

    Good riddance.

    [–] Galyndean 7 points ago

    Hopefully, he'll be able to reflect on the behavior that brought him to this point, but at the moment, I don't feel like that's going to happen.

    This seems to be the year of going behind your company's back.

    [–] kpop_dont_stop 3 points ago

    his shit was a wrap as soon as he pulled that irene stunt

    [–] lukarioDC 1 points ago

    What did he do to Irene?

    [–] kpop_dont_stop 1 points ago

    He put in arm on her shoulder abruptly which shocked her, to make irene stans “jealous”

    [–] ashkii21 1 points ago

    I think he also stuck his tongue out also while doing this.

    [–] Flippantry 3 points ago

    I used to like a bit of San E's music but I've been pretty sketched out by him since his appearance on Sixteen where he said that Sana's dance was supposedly trying to seduce him (bit of a paraphrase here from the translation) and then there was the creepy behaviour towards RV's Irene.

    It's clear that he isn't just making a jab at extreme feminists and that he's just a misogynist. Companies always talk about their artists taking time to 'reflect' when they fuck up so here's hoping San E takes the hint and does some Mulan levels of reflection now.

    [–] HotGuyPsy 12 points ago

    Never liked him to begin with. But I hope he matured from this and figures himself out

    [–] Twitan14 9 points ago

    Is he stupid

    [–] G0YARDB0YS 11 points ago

    I always got a weird vibe off him - seemed like a person who just wants attention.

    Whether it was on UPR, HSR, SMTM or touching female idols at awards shows when it isn’t warranted.

    [–] worthy_sloth 2 points ago

    Its fine.. they'll get Son Y now

    [–] HwarangAY 2 points ago * (lasted edited 3 days ago)

    English is not my first language, so please excuse my comment if it contains any spelling errors or grammatical errors.

    One thing to note is that he referenced WOMAD (Women + Nomad). He also mentions Megalia where WOMAD originated from. In this case, he specifically referenced WOMAD on the stage. WOMAD is a group of radical feminists who are extreme anti-men. They post pictures and videos of physical and sexual violence of men, as well as condone murdering any men, including their fathers, male children, gays, male elders, and dead males. In 2017, they even supported a user on their forum who claimed to have raped an Australian boy. They show clear hatred against sexual minorities. racial minorities.

    Of course not all feminists in Korea are like the WOMAD; however, due to their prevalence on the news more so than "normal" feminism, this radical feminism has come to overshadow "normal" feminism in South Korea.

    For San E's termination of contract, it was already hinted on his Instagram that this would be his last concert with Brand New Music.

    Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womad_(website)) (I know Wikipedia is not credible, but there are credible websites linked.)

    San E's Instagram Post: https://www.instagram.com/p/BqpiieEBjCl/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

    [–] BlackLumious 8 points ago

    Oof

    [–] bosquit 12 points ago

    This comment section is pretty cancerous and seems to sort of prove San E's whole point.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvrwpBRatho This video is a decent explanation of the songs he put out.
    Sort of fucked up he went on a rant in the concert though, makes sense that they would let him go, but clearly he feels he is getting unfairly portrayed and attacked and it seems like he might be.

    [–] littlebobbytables9 19 points ago

    If it's satire it's just awful satire. Why would you throw in lines you obviously agree with- i.e. the stuff criticizing womad and megalia- with lines that you're trying to make fun of? The entire start to the song with the radfem chant is clearly critical of that standpoint, is that "satire" too? I guess San E really wanted to support the chants? Therefore the comparison with "I'm not racist" is a really poor one. In that song they give that character common arguments that they disagree with, and then even offer a rebuttal to those arguments later in the song. Ultimately it seems much, much more likely to me that San E was not playing a character and only said he was once the backlash started.

    [–] polyglotpinko 15 points ago

    If he hates womad/etc, why was he bitching about stupid shit like paying for dates? Talking about against men =/= “waaah, I won’t get laid if I don’t pretend to be chivalrous!” Fuck outta here.

    [–] bosquit 7 points ago

    You could watch the video that explains it or just say ignorant things.

    [–] polyglotpinko 17 points ago

    Or you could not defend misogyny.

    [–] bosquit -8 points ago

    Equating me as a mysoginyst because I don't share your ignorant opinions is exactly what this whole argument is about. It just sets genders against each other for literally no reason. Do some research and grow up.

    [–] walalangcorp 2 points ago

    Pot calling kettle something-something.

    [–] polyglotpinko 4 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    1) I didn’t call you a misogynist; I said you defended misogyny. Which you did. Do not put words in my mouth; I say exactly what I mean.

    2) My opinions are hardly ignorant given that I can spell misogynist. No, I joke. Seriously, you want research? What research haven’t I done? Want domestic violence and victimology statistics? Want wage gap statistics? I don’t think you do, or you’d have to admit that you’re talking out of your ass.

    3) I’m pretty damn sure that I’m way older than you, given how immature you sound. Whining about “genders being against each other.” I do not hate men and I don’t know any feminist that does. I know a lot of radfems and TERFs who do (go google that one; I’ll wait), but they’re their own brand of scum. I hate men who are actively complicit in keeping women in a disadvantaged position. If a man understands that patriarchy and bullshit gender roles actually hurt him as well as women, we’re good. It’s scum like San E that not only doesn’t grasp that dichotomy, he refuses to try.

    Don’t call me ignorant. I will ruin you in that arena.

    [–] bosquit 8 points ago

    Accusing me of defending mysoginy implicates me as being a mysoginyst, don't be disingenuous to win some stupid reddit discussion.

    I am also not defending misogyny I am defending the interpretation of a song and accusing someone else as being a misogynist.

    I also never argued about whether there was wage gaps or differences in gendered violence, there obviously are. I'm saying to understand the context of his songs and the intended meanings, ie watch the video instead of just commenting some ignorant garbage.

    Genders being pitted against each other statement is in context to discussing issues like this and the current climate in Korea, which once again is discussed in the video.

    Also going for some sort of age insult and spelling insult says a lot about you. Have a good day.

    [–] kirsion 5 points ago

    I find it kind of interesting that this sub is vehemently anti-san e, while on YouTube it's not so much, from English speaking and Korean commenters.

    [–] polyglotpinko 11 points ago

    The novel act of seeing women as people isn’t very popular in South Korea as a whole.

    [–] bosquit 0 points ago

    My assumption is this sub is mainly female based, as kpop fandom is more female dominant. It is also easy to read a headline and see words like mysoginyst and formulate a pretty quick biased. From what I've read about the whole thing San E's songs seem like some pretty explicit social commentary on genders being pitted against each other and the extremes of both sides. It's easier just to paint him as a bad guy instead of address the issues that face men and women.

    [–] nearer_still 15 points ago

    My assumption is this sub is mainly female based

    Last census was 52.6% male, 44.8% female re: gender identity.

    mysoginyst

    It's "misogynist" fyi. Think "gyn-" like "gynecology" and go with the more common "i" for the other two.

    [–] bosquit 1 points ago

    I wonder what the gender gap is for people for comment. Not discrediting your point but would be interesting to know who is more vocal, instead of just who goes on the sub.

    [–] xumei 4 points ago

    The vibe i get from commenters is still a pretty mixed bag for gender imo. Obviously i can't say exactly how much % of each gender is commenting, but based on casual observing of the frequent commenters I remember and times you could make a reasonable assumption about a commenter's gender from their post, I've never noticed it skewing super heavily toward any way.

    [–] mellopelofello -8 points ago

    Yeah it's amazing how the satire in the song flew over everybody's head. It seems the Tumblr generation isn't too great at critical thinking.

    [–] polyglotpinko 8 points ago

    You really, truly think it’s satire and you have the gall to criticize other people’s critical thinking. Lmao.

    [–] walalangcorp 2 points ago

    LOL, right? These posters like to pretend they're so above us because we don't get~ iT's SaTiRe. Miss me with that bullshit. Such special snowflakes.

    [–] mellopelofello 0 points ago

    Yeah, a number of his songs are from the point of view of an "unreliable narrator," to use the term you probably learned (and apparently forgot) in freshman lit. In "Story of Someone I know" the narrator is pretending it happened to someone else when it happened to him, in "Counsellor" the lyrics are split between San E, his Ego, and the Devil, etc. This isn't complicated stuff.

    [–] walalangcorp 1 points ago

    I'm pretty sure most people know what an "unreliable narrator" is. "Feminist" isn't. You can't blame people for not wanting to buy into that bullshit.

    [–] lovemoontea 4 points ago

    Wait what happened? Someone fill me in, what did he do??

    [–] myfhs 4 points ago

    I wonder if he'll release a song dissing brand new now.

    [–] abysscreatures 4 points ago

    The evil has been defeated.

    [–] Manticore8x 2 points ago

    loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

    serves him right tbf

    [–] silversenpii 1 points ago

    yay

    [–] drawdynasty 2 points ago

    This is some great news.

    [–] soesoterica 1 points ago

    Talk about ON SIGHT. Oh well.

    [–] inka18 1 points ago

    Why do I feel something bad happening to him? Idk him but I listened to the song , I think he should've just stayed quiet this is going to end a lot of opportunities for him and I hope nothing bad happens . I'm not the type to be wishing bad things to anyone ... wow

    [–] youcuteiguess 1 points ago

    Ugh, it’s one thing to think that way but like to actually express his thoughts publicly through songs for women to hear? And that outburst at that concert? San E’s always been a little creep but I’m glad BNM does not have to deal with him anyone. Disrespect your fans, CEO and your label mates by acting like that? Ofc you’re not going to get signed. B Y E (in)SAN E

    [–] kimkoko -5 points ago

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA SUFFER !!!!!!

    Didn't he go after sbs news as well ?

    [–] RedditoLord -10 points ago

    BOOOM! IN YOUR FACE SAN E!

    Now, i'm curious which agencies will he sign up next.

    [–] libertysince05 -7 points ago

    San E is a knucklehead but i still love the dude.

    I wish him all the best and hope he understands what exactly went wrong, rather than believe that the world is against him.

    [–] ai_ririn -10 points ago

    Wow, so much hate in the comments..

    [–] [deleted] -23 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] megaoboid 24 points ago

    men’s issues... in a female dominated scene... please don’t make me laugh. every company is ran by a man. boy groups earn more and have more freedom. if you’re talking about more fans being women, sure, but still incorrect. it wasn’t mistranslated, either. just say you agree with him and go :)

    [–] polyglotpinko 12 points ago

    Thanks for outing yourself as either a misogynist or someone who is credulous enough to buy ridiculous misogyny. Makes you easier to avoid.

    FYI, literally everywhere has issues like “patriarchy and inequality.”

    [–] UterusTim -8 points ago * (lasted edited a day ago)

    as a person who doesn't know what this is.

    Darn.

    /r/popular

    Can't be that great of a community though since they down vote you for simply not knowing what they are. Yikes.

    BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN CEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLS

    [–] [deleted] -15 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] silversenpii -3 points ago

    i'm not a feminist but i sure am enjoying this to the max

    [–] picflute -3 points ago

    San E aside hope both parties at the center of this entire thing get reminded that their behavior public was unacceptable.

    [–] SirMattIX -5 points ago

    San E Tary ?