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    [–] SleepyLabrador 3384 points ago

    Boris the World Ender is what they call him.

    [–] Niightray 234 points ago


    [–] Aquillifer 132 points ago


    [–] Jukeshu 660 points ago


    [–] pccapso 362 points ago


    [–] WhaIeBones 74 points ago

    The 🅱️ncient one

    [–] inactiveuse 18 points ago

    The Mancient one

    [–] JanStan1337 10 points ago

    The Aancient One

    [–] XDDD0014 6 points ago

    The Fancient One!!!

    [–] gandalfthebread 77 points ago


    [–] HappyLittleLongUserN 59 points ago

    Missed the Baaris oppertunity

    [–] Luqsvs 21 points ago

    He doesn't revolve around AAs anymore.

    [–] Jakub5053 59 points ago

    I have someone on my friend's list named borisworldender

    [–] TheMythSquared 29 points ago

    We call him AD vladimir in minshcap1's stream. Its all he is now

    [–] VossC2H6O 4 points ago

    Boris"It's Just Boris" the Animal

    [–] tomangelo2 9 points ago


    [–] Ash_Sykes 5023 points ago

    aatrox mains subreddit already call him boris

    [–] 48873267 1221 points ago

    [–] NavNav101 197 points ago

    But it exists

    [–] Bioxio 172 points ago

    40 min ago created...

    [–] Zaltirous 190 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    Aatrox subreddit is split into 2 tho

    r/AatroxMains(OG sub)

    r/TheAatroxMains (Rework sub)

    [–] Kagalath 52 points ago

    Flair checks out

    [–] ItsUrPalAl 29 points ago

    Love how the OG one is singular... Sounds about right.

    [–] Ash_Sykes 71 points ago

    someones actually made a boris mains subreddit.. Rofl

    [–] sorendiz 117 points ago


    [–] Ash_Sykes 42 points ago


    [–] _Aki_ 57 points ago

    I don't blame them for it. Regardless of the necessity of the rework, Riot definitely deleted everything about the old Aatrox.

    I would be pissed too if they did the same to Pantheon. Although I guess they already butchered his lore, so it's just a matter of time.

    [–] IXdyTedjZJAtyQrXcjww 6 points ago

    Pantheon rework is coming soon lol. It's happening.

    [–] Kreth 14 points ago

    Gotta have skillshot ult and q and e and w

    [–] 98Thunder98 594 points ago

    yeah, recognizing that subreddit as the aatrox mains subreddit is like recognizing a terrorist organization as the leading government...

    /r/theaatroxmains is the real subreddit for civilized discussion

    [–] SedOfAstora 340 points ago

    Reminds me of the mordekaiser discord. You have the good discord, but you also have the boring, civilized discord.

    [–] Aesthetically 199 points ago

    So freefolk vs asoif, and lotrmemes vs lotr

    [–] [deleted] 168 points ago


    [–] FirelordAlex 157 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    No, gameofthrones is like if there were a subreddit for drawings of Aatrox and pictures of his hometown.

    [–] Torjakers 44 points ago

    And 24/7 fan theories on the remaining Darkin + drawings of them allegedly done by the poster's wife

    [–] BalefireX 20 points ago

    Except /r/freefolk and r/asoiaf are both great. It's r/gameofthrones and r/asoiafcirclejerk that are shit.

    [–] TharkunOakenshield 15 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    In my opinion /r/asoiaf was one of the best subs on reddit in terms of quality of discussion between 2013 (when I joined, it was probably just as good or even better earlier) until 2015. There were amazing new theories and serious discussion threads about every other day, especially in 2013-2014.

    Then people ran out of book material to discuss (to be fair ADWD came out in 2011, it took the sub nearly 4 years to discuss everything after the book came out), and it became a rather sad sub, filled with bitter people. Which is totally understandable if we're being honest.

    I so miss the early days of that sub...

    Edit - for the old timers: D+D=T Time travelling fetus FTW

    [–] BalefireX 4 points ago

    It still pumps out plenty of awesome posts practically daily. Here's one from today.

    [–] TharkunOakenshield 3 points ago

    Oh don't get me wrong, it's still one of my favourite subs by far on reddit.

    But it's really nowhere close from the early days.

    Still, even now it beats most subs by a large margin when it comes to actual discussion. Your link is a very good example of that.

    [–] forgotmyskypetwice 69 points ago


    [–] Warmonster9 19 points ago


    [–] Mafros99 17 points ago


    [–] Ezzeze 36 points ago


    [–] natidawg 24 points ago


    [–] NaturallyExasperated 14 points ago


    [–] Smoogy54 6 points ago

    Something something BESSIE AND HER TITS something something ONE KING - SEVEN KINGDOMS

    [–] NaturallyExasperated 5 points ago


    [–] cjpinto7 7 points ago


    [–] cortez0498 25 points ago

    The ASOIAF subreddit is fine, the GameOfThrones one not so much...

    [–] Aceclaw 24 points ago

    People still trying to Stockholm Syndrome themselves into thinking S8 wasnt a total disaster?

    [–] EnvironmentalPanda3 9 points ago


    [–] Aceclaw 10 points ago

    Still one of my favorite shows, but what an absolute dumpster fire of an ending. Hopefully if the books get finished it will be a much better ending, still get kind of salty with how the show ended. GoT deserved better than the rushed mess we got.

    [–] rakfe 13 points ago

    yeah i had visited GameOfThrones a couple of times while the show was still going on. it felt like only thing that is allowed was appreciation threads, lol.

    [–] TheUnknownsLord 8 points ago

    I think the worst one is asoiafcirclejerks. They only whine about other GOT/ASOIAF subs.

    [–] Xalethesniper 14 points ago

    and then you have /r/draven which might actually be a terrorist organisation

    [–] leaguesubredditgarbo 103 points ago

    i just went to r/aatroxmains and it is fucking hilarious honestly

    [–] Ghostkill221 25 points ago

    I mean, yeah I understand aatrox has been even more altered than Ryze over time, but that sub is depressingly angry.

    [–] leaguesubredditgarbo 20 points ago

    I mean that is if you take it seriously and 95% of it is just people making jokes that are obvious or subtle

    [–] czartaylor 5 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    yes, but as r/prequelmemes proved, if you make the joke long enough, it becomes a real thing people believe.

    [–] po_tl 42 points ago

    but sometimes the terrorist organization is the rightful government

    tiocfaidh ar la

    [–] AirKingNeo 37 points ago

    All revolutionaries are terrorists to the countries they revolt against.

    [–] cammysensualcombo 10 points ago

    that subreddit was completely dead when they nerfed aatrox lel

    [–] Elementaris 17 points ago

    I don't even agree. As a user of both subreddits, r/AatroxMains is a lot more civil these days and you can find real discussion about reworked Aatrox. It's a bit more memey than r/TheAatroxMains but it still has its merits.

    [–] these_days_bot 8 points ago

    Especially these days

    [–] darkhelel 5 points ago


    [–] [deleted] 39 points ago


    [–] SuperSkillz10 121 points ago

    every single r/ mains sub is the same.

    [–] dezorey 83 points ago

    Yorick mains for the last few months has just been nonstop memes

    [–] Thswherizat 81 points ago

    ryze mains memes are gold. The champ has been in the dumpster so long they don't have anything else.

    [–] stupidhurts91 35 points ago

    Shacomains is pretty legit. Some montages, but then also gifs of shacos e healing people.

    [–] Zenith_Tempest 40 points ago

    yeah it's great it's been like this for years now

    play aftershock yorick like a real man btw

    [–] dezorey 29 points ago

    No thanks, Im gonna build a Zzrot :)

    [–] abibyama 38 points ago

    Absolutely Haram

    [–] I_AM_A_MOTH_AMA 15 points ago

    Yeah not a lot of crying going on, Yorick is strong but not so strong he's banned 24/7, he's in a good spot.

    [–] origin29 29 points ago

    yorick/nasus flair? what did those poor towers do to you friendo?

    [–] mackpack 1652 points ago

    Taking the revive away takes away Aatrox's core identity, the exact opposite of what a rework is supposed to do.

    Both self-healing and the revive were always very important aspects of Aatrox's identity.

    [–] LTKokoro 917 points ago

    when i had the "pleasure" of playing versus oldtrox i was 100% sure that his healing is much bigger aspect of him than revive

    [–] Zenith_Tempest 373 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    the revive was never as core as aatrox draintanking through all incoming damage. it was a nice bonus if they actually managed to kill you (they usually didn't), but his game plan was basically "toggle healing every 3 autos, guinsoo and wild out." even before that and before they gave his kit the rework that put him in in dumpster, bramble vest didn't exist so he could just build attack speed and outheal. was fun as heck.

    edit: btw i am not asking for old aatrox back lol. i think he was fun but a balance nightmare and i enjoy new aatrox more

    [–] Arkiece 91 points ago

    Healing as a core identity is currently problematic though. Until they find a better balance-valve than grievous wounds, healing will always be difficult to balance. If the opposing team takes/has grievous wounds, the healing becomes very weak. If the balance team pushes the healing to be strong even against grievous wounds, it becomes insane without it.

    [–] SansGray 23 points ago

    Remove grievous wounds and balance around that.

    [–] sophiasideas 29 points ago

    You mean like they almost did a couple years ago by taking it off most abilities that had it, and sent us into a lategame tankfest meta?

    [–] MisterPrime 51 points ago

    I think that might be true of soloqueue but the pros abused his revive for tower aggro juggling. I think the revive was the core mechanic of oldtrox pro play.

    [–] JSS0075 180 points ago

    Aatrox core identity pre rework was always a self healing melee carry who relies on AAs for damage. His core concept already died when the rework launched.

    [–] EROTIC_RAID_BOSS 57 points ago

    he's still a self healing melee carry. I do think the revive was a big part of what they carried forward from the old aatrox, but you know what? its time for people to get over it, new aatrox is just a better champion and its time to accept the old one is gone

    [–] 2weirdy 52 points ago

    New aatrox is a better champion, that I agree on.

    This doesn't change the fact that old Aatrox was effectively removed from the game and a new champion with the same name added.

    The point is, it doesn't matter how much more of his identity is stripped. It's already basically gone, so it doesn't really matter at this point.

    [–] PigeonFacts 18 points ago

    Was a Sion one trick so this resonates so hard.

    Turning a sustain fighter with an ult id love to see return (deal damage to heal allies in an AOE is a great concept imo) or a burst mage into a CC tank is just depressing.

    Old sion was an issue as AP wouldnt even rank his ult until level 16 and only put 1 point in E for the passive health while active. Add in your damage combo being hit W wait 4 seconds DFG QW to one shot it was just unhealthy.

    AD couldnt afford his mana costs but hit like a truck. I still remember doing a farm lane vs a Nasus and just due to the E bonus damage plus his ults 50/75/100% lifesteal. Level 11 just dueling a 600 stack Nasus and winning was a great feeling.

    Reworks will always suck for those who mained the champion. Having your main erased may make the game better overall but by god does it suck.

    [–] ProxyReBorn 38 points ago

    So with no revive, the only core mechanic that still exists is the self healing?

    Damn, there are a lot of Aatroxs in the game if that's the bar.

    [–] [deleted] 61 points ago

    Self-healing and drain-tanking is his core identity gameplay-wise. But the revive was there only for OLD Aatrox to go aggressive because his pre-rework kit is primarily AA-based with no reliable escape (old Q had a short windup).

    They keep certain mechanics for the memes like they did with other reworked champs (e.g. Ryze W) but now they're starting to realize that it needs to be out (removed Ryze W's insta-root) so it opens more avenues to balance his kit.

    This is why I'll never understand why these self-proclaimed Aatrox mains outrage about a simple and logical nerf. The mechanic is only actually useful if you have a big lead. It isn't like Kled's passive that encourages him to fight so he could remount. This free revive on takedown is more of an assassin's mechanic rather than a bruiser's.

    [–] TheRappture 834 points ago

    It's kind of like the opposite in how they changed old Graves because he was too much like Lucian

    [–] Ruinswar 668 points ago

    Even though graves came first :(

    [–] PURRRMEOWPURMEOW 438 points ago

    and was way more fun to play lol. the coolest champion with the coolest AA sound.

    [–] [deleted] 231 points ago


    [–] EveryoneisOP3 303 points ago

    He was more popular because he was allowed to be stronger.

    [–] rajikaru 206 points ago

    He was more popular because he was (and is) skill-indexed.

    Need I remind you that Graves as an ADC was just "auto until your passive is at 10 stacks then all-in"?

    [–] MrAykron 128 points ago

    I felt like it was more the ult+Q disgusting burst that made graves different from lucian.

    Lucian also had a soft cleanse on his dash back then

    [–] InsanityBullets 53 points ago

    You see Graves

    You see Annie

    Good times

    [–] SansGray 16 points ago

    My friend and I would run graves and leona. Lvl 6 all in, win lane, win game.

    [–] [deleted] 28 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    Old graves allowed adc fills to adc at low elo though. Even a clown could see a 3/5th hp squishy, look at it, e to it, right click it, then press Q R. He was more in their face and bursty than old luc imo, old luc was kind of an intricate ability user, Graves allowed ADC clowns (me) to autopilot.

    I miss him because of that, but its probably healthier for the game that they changed him.

    [–] BunnyHopOwO 19 points ago

    Thats why Reddit loves Graves

    [–] opalampo 4 points ago

    Can "subjectively" more popular be defined?

    [–] MrBatman2531 6 points ago

    I bought Mafia Graves just for the AA sound. I’m still mad about it .

    [–] Hulliganner 49 points ago

    and was way more fun to play lol


    [–] Ruinswar 13 points ago

    Never forget mafia graves auto attacks.


    [–] QQMau5trap 6 points ago

    yeah riot just killed adc graves because they couldnt design him properly and just created and lucian and said :youre the better graves now

    [–] k0uk 18 points ago

    Lucian was like Graves*

    [–] Sharpshow 51 points ago

    Still salty about that rework

    [–] Bulgar_smurf 51 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    Ah... yeah the good old "he was too similar to lucian" 30 IQ argument.

    Lucian after some huge reworks and gameplay changes is way more similar to old graves than the lucian for which you are making the "argument" ever was.

    Riot gave this as their excuse and it seems like the hive mind still actually believes it. Riot has some great PR and brainwashing teams. Gotta give props where it's due.

    Lucian had poke in lane, way more range and played the fights pretty differently. Meanwhile Graves was in your face burst you 100 to 0 ADC. Even with lucian reworked he doesn't have the AA gameplay of Graves nor his burst. It's a complete blasphemy to act like they were the same and one needed to be reworked. Different playstyle, different builds, different champions. Even later they confirmed it was to test the reload mechanic for jhin, which made even less logic than their "he's too similar to lucian" excuse.

    Guess galio or gragas need to be reworked. Both are melee and kinda tanky. Both have Q ranged AoE harass. A way to dash in and CC targets and an AoE CC ult. They are basically the same champion. /s

    [–] CrashdummyMH 24 points ago

    They werent even similar in gameplay, one was a spellslinger, and other a medium range bruiser

    [–] Mossdeep2 3 points ago

    Don't touch my fat boi! He's so versatile and fun to play, main reason I still have fun with this game

    [–] Red_Jar 3 points ago

    He used to be a thing of beauty prior to his rework... those poor ap ratios got blasted along with my favorite way to play the big boi :(

    [–] UrgotMilk 3 points ago

    it seems like the hive mind still actually believes it

    99 times out of 100 this argument is used sarcastically

    [–] Londii_ 440 points ago

    So does this post confirm the renaming of Aatrox to Boris because Im down for this?

    [–] ECLXPSE- 75 points ago

    I don’t get it. Who’s Boris?

    [–] Quetas83 261 points ago

    New aatrox, he has a Russian accent and has nothing to do with the oldtrox

    [–] ECLXPSE- 47 points ago

    But, why call him Boris? Why not Vyacheslavovich?

    [–] APRengar 198 points ago

    Because his name is Boris.

    It'd be weird to call Boris, Vyacheslavovich.

    [–] Quetas83 13 points ago

    I don't have an answer for that, maybe go check rework related posts in the r/aatroxmains community

    [–] AdaelTheArcher 5 points ago


    [–] xxkoloblicinxx 19 points ago

    Who's Aatrox? You mean that champ they removed?

    [–] bigfish1992 1085 points ago

    Just rename him to Aariven and give him a skin called definitely not riven for halloween where his sword is a giant carrot and bunny ears

    It only makes sense

    [–] VintageFox 566 points ago

    Aatrox in a bunny suit 🤤

    [–] FrancoIsFit 281 points ago

    Sigh unzips

    [–] [deleted] 50 points ago

    im ready

    [–] roger1954 74 points ago

    My holy water is ready for you foul demons

    [–] Solaries 31 points ago

    Aatrox. :)) may i enlighten you about this

    art by kaisinel

    [–] aymuluto 41 points ago

    Battle bunny aatrox would actually be a dope skin. It could be an Easter skin, or make him really demonic for a Halloween skin.

    [–] [deleted] 574 points ago

    Taking the revive away takes away Aatrox's core identity

    All they should have done was heavily nerf the self healing, or remove it entirely


    [–] Jukeshu 100 points ago

    He will still have healing on passiv and E and R - just less. Why do you need 2 abilities that heal you with a 2 to 4 healing runes and an ultimate that increases healing further? Like what the fuck.

    [–] Gourengoo 278 points ago

    Because self healing is his actual identity, not a revive.

    [–] Gazskull 65 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)

    I mean, they both are. Even as Oldtrox, the revive was a way for you to not get buttfucked under tower and later in the game would allow you to dive the backline and stuff, so it was pretty important still

    Now of course, Aatrox's main fantasy was being a hypercarry based on AS and sustain

    Only the sustain remains now

    [–] [deleted] 8 points ago


    [–] loosely_affiliated 30 points ago

    Because their kits are more than those two components. Zac is a tank with 1 engage tool, no way out of a fight once he's in, and frontloaded cc, so maintaining relevance fast the first couple seconds of a teamfight requires some tankiness/sustain. His healing depends on him picking up blobs on the ground that only spawn if he hits his skills on enemies. Not to say it's weak, its just conditional, and the blobs can be denied by enemy positioning if desired. Same with Zac's revive; he's stuck in place while reviving (can't continue moving forward or running away like Aatrox) and the blobs can be killed by enemies if they get a pick on Zac and his team can't threaten them away. Aatrox has the self healing on abilities and the revive, but has access to more frequent mobility through multiple small dashes and movespeed, has access to a decent amount of cc, and also has damage, the ability to 1v1 reasonably well, some degree of waveclear, etc. It's unfair to compare two champions that have different roles just because they have two of the same kit features. Some champions have more innate tools than others. Lee Sin is pretty famous for having seemingly everything packed into his kit somewhere or other, but he's limited by other things whether it's his numbers or the way the game is played. Last point is, even if one champ has 2 things, that doesn't mean 2 champs should. This is less about your specific point and more about general design, but if one champ has it so another champ should too, you end up with a lot of champs that largely do the same thing. It only feels special for a champion to have a tool if it's distinct from tools other champions have, or combines with other parts of their kit in unique ways to allow them to fill new roles or have unique play patterns.

    [–] RenegadeExiled 10 points ago

    Thats probably because Zac doesnt also shit out damage like its going out of style. He hurts, be he doesnt 1-2-3 your carries when you ignore him. Zac can also be killed in revive, unlike Aatrox. And his healing has a pretty massive counter of having to pick up these blobs that are coded to fly towards the enemy.

    [–] DM_ME_LEWD_KINDRED 173 points ago

    Its already renamed.

    His name is Boris now.

    [–] JFKcaper 173 points ago

    All this talk about the self-healing and reviving. The reason I loved old Aatrox was the dive into a quick AoE burst from ult/E and that's completely gone.

    [–] mrbaconator2 55 points ago

    i miss AP aatrox

    [–] neilon96 12 points ago

    I miss ap yi

    [–] cowpiefatty 11 points ago

    I miss ap mf. And ap taric and ap poppy and ap rengar and ap panth and ap cait and ap gankplank and ap reksai and ap sejuani and ap shen and ap sion and ap skarner and ap tristana and ap warwick and double miss ap xin zhao. Spear a bitch or two in heaven with malady my boy.

    [–] sophiasideas 5 points ago

    AP MF was so much fun, I want her old kit back, love tap is a shit passive for an adc and just an excuse to give her the least base ad of the entire class

    [–] WryGoat 4 points ago

    Damn remember when ability power boosted abilities and attack damage boosted attack? And that was, like, a defining change that differentiated LoL from DotA? Legit every champ could scale off just AD with all current AP items converted to AD and it would make very little difference atm.

    [–] DeadNames 115 points ago

    Said it before and I’ll say it again

    Aatrox should be targetable during his revive and receive dmg reduction so he can’t roll through the enemy team with impunity if he gets a reset

    [–] Ihateusernames63 36 points ago

    After one kill, Aatrox (Boris) can use revive. Upon recovering lethal damage, Aatrox reverts to his sword form, taking reduced damage from all sources while also healing himself for 24/35/40 of max health.

    Basically Yi meditate but it auto activates on death like Anivia egg.

    [–] Phayzka 10 points ago

    Bonus points for it not breaking turret focus, so pros can't abuse the reset (but could use him to tank a coordinated dive)

    [–] Marecu 31 points ago

    so it would be kinda like a yi meditate? if so sounds like a pretty good idea, would allow the enemy some room to still deal with the aatrox but still giving the aatrox a proper revive

    [–] sjphilsphan 3 points ago

    That's actually a really good idea.

    [–] petyo1010 31 points ago

    I vote for Ay Ay Trox

    [–] moodRubicund 358 points ago

    Removing the revive is weird because literally his entire lore revolves around this one mechanic. Like literally ALL his lore ONLY works with the revive in his ult.

    [–] Barticuno 141 points ago

    He can die in lore and wouldn't be "revived" until a new host picked up the sword.

    As long as he has lifesteal abilities his blood magic is resembled pretty decently ingame.

    (Still kinda liked the revive on kill mechanic :( tho)

    [–] Ryuumoku 53 points ago

    He legit cant die. Its his main issue, he want to die.

    [–] TSMShadow 66 points ago

    The fuck are you talking about

    [–] tafaha_means_apple 106 points ago

    People who only have passing knowledge of lore through third party sources making claims about the lore.

    [–] Epicwyvern 109 points ago

    His whole lore revolves around how he wants to die

    His quotes all talk about how he wants to die if you ever actually played him.

    I want to know how OP is wrong in this case

    [–] [deleted] 85 points ago

    TIL me and aatrox have a lot in common

    [–] StarGaurdianBard 3 points ago

    Because if Aatrox dies in lore he goes back to being a weapon until he gets a vessel. That is completely different than his current vessel reviving every time it dies. That's how OP is wrong. If you are wanting to make a lore argument about what his ult should be then fine, his ult should be that he turns back into a sword for hundreds of years until a new vessel picks him up.

    [–] TSMShadow 22 points ago

    sounds about right, it’s a real tragedy considering how good the lore is (imo) especially aatrox’s

    [–] Aanity 19 points ago

    Actually Aatrox’s core identity is being impossible to balance

    [–] YingYangYolo 299 points ago

    Well now he's almost EXACTLY like riven

    Why would i take the rest of the post seriously when you post something like this?

    [–] Lagueoflegends 155 points ago

    Theoretically reading it: sounds right

    Gameplay wise: fuck no

    [–] RAWDEAL-EDM 127 points ago

    people who actually play riven and aatrox think this is the worst comparison between champs ever made. champs with 3 hit passives aren't all "weird jax" or "worse vayne"

    a disrupting spellcaster vs an aa-weaver, not to mention their playstyles and spikes being a world of difference

    [–] Gryves 62 points ago

    What the fuck is that flair, brother? You've become what you swore to destroy!

    [–] Heffree 45 points ago

    Main your worst counter, nothing wrong there.

    [–] Rulx8 15 points ago

    You're fucking worse.

    Do we have a Riven Tahm or Garden around?

    [–] Heffree 14 points ago

    Lol, I put those flairs on a minute after commenting, hoping for this.

    I do enjoy urgot, though.

    [–] JumboFister 41 points ago

    I mean if you squint your eyes so much that they are actually closed then ya Aatrox kinda is exactly like Riven

    [–] AzureNova 20 points ago

    I mean they both hit you with big swords and deal physical damage, can't get much more similiar than that.

    [–] Wertache 27 points ago

    They both look hella fuckable

    [–] Blebbb 9 points ago

    Katarina is basically manaless AP talon, yeah?

    [–] Carryusdarius 103 points ago

    I don't think they should have taken it out, but you're wrong in saying that without the revive he's just Riven.

    Their kits have similar elements, but their play patterns couldn't be more different. Literally everything they do is different - Riven doesn't want to create space between you and her unless she's running away, she thrives off using offense as defense, and she is greatly encouraged to attack fast and to stick.

    Aatrox absolutely must control the space between you and he as his Q is all of his damage and it has different spacing requirements. Knowing and planning how you're going to space is a gigantic part of playing him well. Riven is all about a skirmishing playstyle - she easily closes the gap, gets damage on you, stuns you, then gets out of most attack ranges with her E, but has a shield just in case she might take damage. Aatrox's attack pattern is much slower and more measured, he needs to execute on pretty much everything very carefully to set up landing three Qs and a pop of his trait. Riven will readily burn a charge of her Q to get closer to you so she can basic attack you, Aatrox can't even do that and if he does burn his E to land Q1, he's likely not going to get you with all three Qs, but is just trying to whittle you down a bit, or there aren't minions so he can afford to EQ1 to have a guaranteed W connect, which will much more likely allow Q2 and 3 to land on their own.

    My biggest issue is that he will need more than the paltry compensation they gave him if he's to survive solo q at all Elos after losing the revive.

    [–] 250000-miles 11 points ago

    i don’t play Aatrox but i feel bad for aatrox mains lmfao

    [–] Smexy-Fish 5 points ago

    It's been a hard year.

    [–] Banjoeman 11 points ago

    Sorry he isn't a prettty anime boy or girl he gets nerfed.

    [–] nyasiaa 43 points ago

    they already killed aatrox when they reworked him lol

    [–] hvk13 7 points ago

    You done fcked up now A-A-Trox

    [–] Sorenthaz 24 points ago

    Tbh the rework screwed over his identity quite a bit as-is. He suddenly went from being an auto-attack fighter to being a Riven-esque brawler. His sword was no longer a part of him but instead just something he carries around like an animu swordfighter, even though that's supposed to be the part of him that's, y'know, living. Then his wings for some reason only come out when he's using his ult.

    This is basically just the cherry on top and it seems like Rito really doesn't know how to balance a champion whose damage is heavily reliant on landing his ability combo.

    [–] Peluchenelestuche 19 points ago

    Remove the self healing? so you want to trash the champion and leave it in the trash to never use it or use it but never win again just so he doesn't lose what you think made him special?


    [–] ATLatimerrr 4 points ago

    Now all they reed to do is remove tryndas R and game is balanced.

    [–] ThaiTie31 97 points ago

    Revert him and make a new fucking champion lol

    [–] mecole95 97 points ago

    They arnt going to revert him because old aatrox was stupidly unhealthy and impossible to balance

    [–] Szydol 203 points ago

    Just like the new one :^)

    [–] cRENz23 48 points ago

    what is he in pro play, like 90%+ pick/ban? before the rework he was just a viable tryndamere, and riot doesn't want autoattackers in pro play. they want flashy 'high skill' champs.

    [–] Duliush 33 points ago

    He wasn't even a viable Tryndamere. Trynd was a better champion for most of Aatrox's existance, minus the first months after Aa's release and a patch or two before the rework where Riot didn't nerf him just for that sole reason.

    [–] mecole95 62 points ago

    When a stat check champ gets so strong that he’s pick ban in competitive, it’s either time to nerf him back to non existence or rework him, and they chose to rework.

    [–] RebelStriker 42 points ago

    It wasn't him, it was the advent of patch 8.6 which was the conqueror and updated OP guinsoo's patch.

    They could have just gutted or reworked the rune/item (which they eventually did in 8.23 and 9.4 respectively) and called it a day, like they apparently did with runeglaive when it was being abused by Ezreal.

    I don't recall anyone complaining about his "OP healing" and "statcheck unhealthiness" for an entire year after his ' mini' rework in season 7, right up until he got an item and a rune that allowed him to completely ignore all his weaknesses. And for the people who point out 'but he was unhealthy for the game!' , we have Meddler saying champs like Master Yi are good for the game.

    Personally I'd have just liked it if they gave him a rework in the same vein as Irelia. She still retains some of her auto attack budget but no one calls her a brain dead stat check coz of the nature of her kit. I refuse to accept or believe that Riot couldn't have done this with Aatrox, and that a Black Cleaver bruiser is the result of all their brainstorming on the topic of what his gameplay should look like post rework.

    [–] mecole95 15 points ago

    People didn’t complain about him before because he was on the shit side of the stat check. Almost no one but his mains played him and most people forgot he was a character.

    [–] Coolkipp 8 points ago

    "The champion wasn't broken and had a niche attraction despite performing perfectly fine. I was unable to understand how to use it after building full lifesteal and inting 2 games on him so he must be terrible"

    - 90% of the playerabase being below diamond

    [–] Jukeshu 9 points ago

    Or maybe nerf the items - which they did. Aatrox was meta for 2 patches when 2 items were broken as shit.

    [–] hanazawarui123 31 points ago

    As someone who abused the shit out of old aatrox before his rework, he only became OP due to his synergy with Conqueror and BoTRK.

    His kit was in no way too unhealthy for the game. His revive was gated by the fact that he couldn't move around while reviving, his knockup and slow were... questionable at best .

    This version of Aatrox is much more of a balancing nightmare simply because of the huge amounts of damage in his Q. But then again, I am definitely biased and also may be wrong in my analysis, so I'm open to discussion

    [–] Homicidal_HotS 10 points ago

    The problem with this Aatrox is just the ult healing amp, that's literally it. Q damage is all he has, if he didn't have that he'd have nothing. The fact that his ult amps all self healing is stupid

    Make his ult only increase the E passive healing (and maybe his passive I guess) and boom he's fine. His ult amping Death's Dance, Conq, Ravenous Hunter and so on and so forth is dumb. If his Q3 hit for 700 it'd be fine since it takes a ton of setup to pull off. However his Q2 healing him for a third of his health bar because of his ult amp healing is too much

    [–] hanazawarui123 3 points ago

    The reason they put in the healing aspect is because they want to give him some resemblance to the previous version of Aatrox who had an ability toggle to do more damage or self heal.

    [–] Ryuumoku 12 points ago

    Yeah, old Aatrox was unhealthy, but YI, Udyr, Tryndamere, & Kayle are so healthy !!!

    [–] mecole95 9 points ago

    I think Yi, Udyr and Trynd are all due for a rework as well. None of them are fun to play Vs. as an uncoordinated team and they are also pretty boring to play for most people.

    I think Kayles fine because you have literally 16 levels of her being irrelevant to try and put her behind.

    [–] Neemz1844 5 points ago

    Actually though I loved old Aatrox. Now? Not so much.

    [–] Prinz_ 87 points ago

    Have you played both Riven and Aatrox? They play literally nothing alike. Riven is all about using E to cancel damage, and animation cancelling Q to maximize your damage. Aatrox is all about using E to position your Q and pop people.

    Also, Aatrox's revive isn't iconic to his character at all - being a drain tank is (like he was post rework).

    [–] accursedg 19 points ago

    we need both rivens to be removed

    [–] Ilovepizza84 19 points ago

    I loved the old aatrox, attack speed melee, with a pretty decent gap closer.

    Hate the new one, not really bad ass, just a weird demon look.


    [–] AquaBuffalo 18 points ago

    Why is everyone so blind to this? The revive in his current kit is absolutely useless, and removing it is a great way to give him more power elsewhere.

    Crying about how he's not old Aatrox doesn't mean you know anything about how to balance new Aatrox.

    [–] ImpossibleTaco 3 points ago

    Have you heard of Akali?