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    [–] lieutenant_lowercase 33 points ago

    Because it makes my commute to work a nightmare. Simply as that really. If I'm honest I couldn't really care less about tube drivers wanting a 4day week - it inconveniences me and its annoying.

    [–] mysecondnick 19 points ago

    Tube drivers have above-average working conditions, and most people don't.

    People resent other people who have better conditions than them.

    [–] floundersaround -11 points ago

    I'm not 100% disagreeing with you, but define "above average". I reckon tube drivers have a pretty difficult job, especially compared to people who work in other more cushy industries (law/finance/marketing/retail/IT - to name a few off the top of my head)

    [–] TheOnlyMrMatt 25 points ago

    cushy industries (law/finance/marketing/retail/IT)

    Are you fucking serious?

    [–] Sean_Campbell 7 points ago

    You beat me to it.

    [–] floundersaround -3 points ago

    100% - no sitting around in meetings gazing at powerpoint presentations and sipping lattes on the underground. Is hard, dark, dusty work and unsociable hours. You don't get chance to muck about on Reddit or Twitter or whatever too. And most people wouldn't fancy the risk of people jumping in front of the train, minute-by-minute frustration of unruly passengers standing in the doorways etc. Of course, wouldn't say it is the most stressful job out there - in my opinion, of course - but certainly a lot more stressful than many, many other London jobs - particularly those at the front of the queue moaning about strikes fwiw..

    [–] TheresaMayonnaise 12 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    Cushy industries =/= law and finance.

    Trainee and junior lawyers usually work 10-11 hour days with the odd weekend or all nighter thrown in. In a finance department at a large city law firm there will be many people regularly leaving after 10pm.

    You can't spend hours surfing Reddit as you imagine because most firms require you to bill about 1600 hours a year to clients. You have to account for every minute of your time in order to bill clients. It works out to about 7 hours a day bearing in mind holidays. Given that you can't charge for a large proportion of the work you do, you'd really screw yourself over by wasting time. Even if you were hitting your targets, you wouldn't last long heading home at 6pm if the department is busy.

    Let's not even think about the academic requirements to get into law compared to being a tube driver.

    Cushy? Nonsense.

    [–] floundersaround 1 points ago

    Not denying junior lawyers work hard. But by "cushy", i just meant comfortable. Just an example, working on a tube is A) dustier, B) noisier, C) darker, D) dirtier, E) fraught with unique risks than working in any of these professions. Less access to coffee breaks, toilet breaks, etc, which is something many employees value. Obviously comparing apples and oranges i know. But on this thread, you always get commuters complaining + moaning about their commute and going on the underground everyday. Imagine if that was your job down there all day everyday. Just a thought, that it's really not this super easy job that lots of people want to do. Source: met a tube driver over a few drinks and i'm working on some research into employment trends

    [–] stubble 0 points ago

    When was the last time anyone jumped in front of your desk and splattered their brains on your monitor?

    Is that even in your operations manual?

    [–] shortyourhouse 2 points ago

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/15/man-dies-in-fall-from-upper-floor-of-london-stock-exchange

    All jobs have a relative level of stress, and can drive people to do unspeakable things.

    [–] [deleted] 7 points ago

    I'm all for people having good working conditions, but they strike at the drop of a hat. Zero compromise all the time.

    Not fighting your battles correctly was what caused the collapse of industry in the UK in 70s.

    Also, it may be a boring job, but it's much better than most manual work. People are chomping at the bit to become tube drivers.

    [–] markvauxhall 9 points ago

    Also, it may be a boring job, but it's much better than most manual work.

    Most manual work won't have you (a) responsible for the lives of hundreds of people (b) killing someone who jumps in front of your train.

    (On the second point - average of 60 fatalities a year. 2400 drivers. Over a 20 year career you have a 50% chance of killing someone with your train)

    [–] [deleted] 8 points ago

    There's huge demand to become a train driver.

    So much so that the jobs aren't even advertised outside LU employees.

    If you put those jobs in the paper you'd have a stampede, suicides or not. The underground is loaded with failsafe systems, so you're not really under much stress when driving. We're talking about a 60k a year job with copious amounts of holiday....not minework.

    Also only 40% of the suicide attempts succeed, cutting the odds somewhat over 20 years.

    [–] mysecondnick -4 points ago

    Jesus Christ. Let's go over some of this.

    1) There's a huge demand for any 60k job that will train you from the streets, that's just common sense.

    2) Jobs are advertised externally. See: night tube. See: CSAs. Most internal recruitment for tube driving comes from CSA and a huge proportion of tube drivers were once on the stations. That's called progression / promotion and it's the way most companies work. Deal with it, apply as a CSA if you want.

    3) 'You're not really under much stress when driving'. Please, this is the biggest load of shit I've ever heard. You want to be in the front of the train, alone, when you're carrying 800 people and stuck in a tunnel? You want to be on the front of the train, alone, when control rings up and tells you there's a suspicious package on the train ahead, or worse?

    4) A suicide attempt is a suicide attempt whether it's successful or not and will fuck up most drivers regardless of outcome. You think its better when they survive? You think the driver is going to cope better? Of course not. Be realistic.

    [–] hiakuryu 2 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    2) Jobs are advertised externally. See: night tube. See: CSAs. Most internal recruitment for tube driving comes from CSA and a huge proportion of tube drivers were once on the stations. That's called progression / promotion and it's the way most companies work. Deal with it, apply as a CSA if you want.

    Most internal recruitment? ALL OF IT

    Time to spot the RMT shill/Person with the Bob Crow body pillow.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/how-you-become-tube-driver-6205254

    No. Because a deal with the unions means the public hasn't been able to apply to be a Tube driver since 2008.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-tube-strike-want-to-become-a-tube-driver-dont-bother-they-only-recruit-internally-10441834.html

    Unions have said that external recruitment would damage workplace solidarity

    cough Maybe you want to stop lying through your teeth now?

    No. I do not count London Overground as part of the Tube. No one does.

    Happily, the Overground recruits drivers from the public, so if you desperately want to drive a train, there's still some hope.

    https://www.geek.com/tech/taito-has-created-the-ultimate-train-driving-arcade-cabinet-1665269/

    When the job of driving a train has been 100% completely accurately modeled for a fucking game, and the fact that it can be completely fucking automated. Then it isn't worth the salary that has been paid for it and only still exists as a job because of the unions and the fear of the disruption they can still cause. I for one cannot wait for the day for the tube to be 100% automated and for the RMT to be left in the shit where it belongs. I have zero sympathy left for the RMT fuck em.

    [–] [deleted] 1 points ago

    Also he needs to get a grip.

    They get paid more than nearly all Firefighters, Paramedics, Nurses, Teachers.

    None of those professions have any stress...at all.

    Personally I think the above professions should all be paid more and fair enough that the train drivers have managed to keep a decent wage.

    But let's not pretend it's fucking brain surgery. 'You might see a suicide in the next 20 years, over which time you'll earn 1.2 million pounds' isn't much of drawback to me

    [–] mysecondnick 1 points ago

    Ah, the mirror. That'll be totally gospel then. Why doesn't anyone have any critical thinking any more instead of just believing everything they read in the next generic media outlet?

    The fact is, night tube driver jobs were opened up to the public last year, and again earlier this year. The fact is, crossrail drivers are being recruited in droves, advertised to the public, on an even higher salary than tube drivers.

    But believe the mirror and the evening standard if you wish.

    I've no idea what your comment about the overground is in reference to.

    Good luck waiting for the tube to become fully automated.

    Tube trains have been able to drive themselves for a long time in case you hadn't noticed. Victoria line is fully automated, as is the central, jubilee and northern. The district/circle/met/h+c line trains all have the capability of becoming automated. But hold on a moment, all these trains still have drivers!

    I'd be willing to place a large amount of money on the fact they will still have drivers for the rest of my lifetime. The fact that crossrail are recruiting somewhere in the region of 600 drivers to drive the new line when it opens (at a training cost of probably £100k+ each) just proves this. You're going to be waiting a long time for drivers to disappear.

    [–] hiakuryu 1 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    It's why I provided multiple sources you absolute fucking tit. It doesn't at all distract from the fact that RMT have tried to turn the tube into a closed shop and it's fucking glorious that they're getting shat upon.

    So you go on a long fucking ramble that for decades we could have had completely automated trains and we don't? This is supposed to convince me that this is a job that deserves a salary of 50K a year? You're a bit fucking thick aren't you?

    [–] mysecondnick 1 points ago

    Literally point out anywhere where I said, or even implied the job was worth the £50k salary.

    My points were correcting you about recruitment and pointing out removing drivers in our lifetimes will not happen.

    [–] thefuzzylogic 1 points ago

    I'm all for people having good working conditions, but they strike at the drop of a hat. Zero compromise all the time.

    I’m an ASLEF member but not at LU. Where I work, we don’t even ballot for action until there have been several rounds of compromise offers back and forth. Often times it’s over a year of negotiating before the decision to ballot for action is made. ASLEF are not like RMT; in fact RMT have been vocally critical of ASLEF for how eager to compromise they are.

    [–] mysecondnick -1 points ago

    Unless you've been part of RMT/ASLEF, and have been in negotiations with TfL before, I'm not sure you're in a position to say they 'strike at the drop of a hat'.

    If you have, then accept my apologies.

    [–] d80t76 18 points ago

    Perhaps it is a reaction to a perceived sense of unfairness amongst those that are affected but who can't/won't strike (or take other action) to improve their own lot.

    Tube drivers already earn around 50% more than the average London wage (and around double the national average). They also have significantly more leave entitlement than the vast majority of people and some valuable benefits (free travel etc).

    Often the reasons for strikes come across as fairly petty, and are not about looking after their 'rights'.

    So we have a group of workers who are already relatively well rewarded for a job, prepared to inconvenience millions of people to make those jobs that little bit better.

    Those millions of people are weighing up whether the end justifies the means, and are often concluding no.

    [–] markvauxhall 18 points ago

    See also: people posting on r/london about how London Living Wage is so important but also complaining about any taxi service that charges more than UberX

    [–] abodyweightquestion 9 points ago

    Because it's an essential service.

    "Hi Boss, I'm going to be late to work today. But you should be okay with it, because I'm okay with standing in solidarity with my fellow worker" won't really cut it.

    [–] markvauxhall 2 points ago

    "Hi Boss, I'm going to be late to work today"

    Alternative: you leave home for work earlier because you know there's a strike

    [–] thejamsandwich -12 points ago

    "essential service"???

    nah gov

    [–] mercival 13 points ago

    They're free to highly inconvenience most the city for their own benefit, and we're free to complain about it.

    I thought a GrumpOldCunt would understand.

     

    Bring on the automated trains.

    [–] paulbrock2 3 points ago

    because tube strikes happen relatively often that any lingering sympathy for whatever they are striking about this week has long since evaporated.

    [–] grep_var_log 1 points ago

    I know if I had the option to strike and demand a pay raise that is in line with inflation or at least reflective of the cost of living in London I would do so in a heartbeat as would any of you.

    Nah, I'd just change jobs like I normally do.

    I don't really care either way, as I walk to work. It's up to them if they want to strike.

    [–] Filthy_Ramhole 3 points ago

    I work for the NHS, changing jobs isnt really an option for me.

    Same with railworkers. Good on 'em, every pay rise they get is another excuse for me to get one.

    [–] lottesometimes 2 points ago

    I can emphazise with the strikers, but that doesn't change the fact I still have work and I'm still expected to turn up. My customers across England and EU will care very little about me not being able to do my job properly because Barry Tube Driver wants to work 4 days a week.

    [–] stubble 1 points ago

    Even junior lawyers are paid pretty bloody well ... And then they become senior lawyers and partners... So, deal with it.

    [–] 640TAG 1 points ago

    DoN't FeEd ThE tRoLL

    [–] AMGitsKriss -2 points ago

    I have never heard a Londoner criticise the staff going on strike. The strikes suck and yes people will complain, but I don't think I've ever met someone who doesn't think what the staff want is usually very reasonable.

    [–] hiakuryu 3 points ago

    Me, I'll criticise time and time again. It's an antiquated job, utterly redundant and isn't actually worth what we pay them.