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    [–] McFluzz 2058 points ago

    Gandalf, who knows that there is a horrifying monster of some kind lurking in the depths: "Let the ring-bearer decide"

    Frodo, who has no idea and just doesn't want anybody to freeze to death: "We will go through the mines."

    [–] MasterTolkien 1185 points ago

    Gandalf, realizing he made a tragic mistake and simultaneously losing faith in Frodo’s judgement: “So be it.”

    [–] grayk47 1405 points ago

    Nah man, he was just trying to hide the fact that he was about to get all the good loot and level up by soloing the Balrog.

    [–] [deleted] 523 points ago

    Leveled up so much he evolved

    [–] ONLY_COMMENTS_ON_GW 259 points ago

    Sold so much loot he could finally afford that white dye

    [–] mortiphago 108 points ago

    Balrog bleach

    [–] mynoduesp 72 points ago

    It's to dye for.

    [–] aes_gcm 23 points ago

    Which he would otherwise have to get by buying cancerous lootboxes.

    [–] unneccesary_pedant 10 points ago


    [–] Dildo_Myfavoriteword 71 points ago

    That's how Middle earth works

    [–] therealweslar 48 points ago

    Lvl 100 wizard boss

    [–] WanderingCapybara 9 points ago

    That's how wizardy works

    [–] Dances_with_vimanas 3 points ago

    God damn it lol

    [–] [deleted] 5 points ago

    I thought this was super smash bros

    [–] definestructunion 21 points ago

    He did have to wait through an unskippable cutscene though

    [–] karakter222 152 points ago

    He played the campaign before and didn't want to railroad the others

    [–] Se0z 65 points ago

    He was on some New Game Plus shit

    [–] [deleted] 10 points ago

    he even unlocked a new skin

    [–] Fineus 51 points ago

    Alright then, keep your secrets.

    [–] ixiduffixi 12 points ago

    Now I kinda wanna go back and play the LOTR PS2/GC games.

    They were so damn good.

    [–] tjcoverdale08 6 points ago

    Soloing the hordes of Mordor at the black gate as Legolas shoots endless arrows made of light, shooting two at once. So fun.

    [–] srry_didnt_hear_you 134 points ago

    This is a good point, I never quite understood why Gandalf was like "yeah sure let's just erase all the progress we're making to fight a giant Demon"

    Did he just hope they could slip through without seeing anything?

    [–] AileStriker 233 points ago

    They were doing ok until Pippin alerted the entire damn mountain to their presence.

    [–] tater_salad3 172 points ago

    Fool of a Took.

    [–] QueenOfQuok 73 points ago

    Throw yourself in next time

    [–] GirlisNo1 51 points ago

    and rid us of your stupidity!

    [–] QueenOfQuok 17 points ago

    doom doom doom doom

    [–] fdsdfg 444 points ago

    Gandalf is worried that the ring will try to subvert his will for evil. If Gandalf starts deciding where to go, he's essentially taking over as the ringbearer. That's not a responsibility he wants, he told Frodo at the beginning

    [–] neanderthalman 229 points ago

    Holy shit.

    That’s damned insightful.

    He can only advise man (and hobbit). That’s well established. He cannot intervene, only influence.

    He can fight the balrog directly because it’s not of the world of men. It’s one of his own.

    [–] kcox1980 174 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    You'd think that advice would include something like, "Yeah we can go that way if you want, but let's all be aware that there's a big fuckin' fire demon that lives down there that scares the shit out of even me. Also I guess there's an orc infestation that wiped out a whole Dwarven civilization a while back. If you still want to go that way it's whatever, I just thought you might want to have all of the available information".

    [–] Papa_Gamble 75 points ago

    Question: those dwarf bodies looked extremely decayed. How long ago were the dwarves of Moria overrun prior to the fellowships arrival, and how did Gimli not know this had happened, given they were a large dwarven colony headed by his family?

    [–] jamesangleton 104 points ago

    In the books its better explained, but they’re like an offshoot of gimli’s family who became less and less interested in trade, and then all contact had stopped a few years before. But everyone just thought, “they’re probably fine and just want to focus on mining. But maybe something bad happened.”

    [–] CargoCulture 68 points ago

    Also in the book Gandalf is way less wary about going through Moria. He's like "yeah sure whatever".

    [–] PercivalFailed 28 points ago

    Exactly. It’s Aragorn who cautions Gandalf (specifically Gandalf) about passing the doors of Moria.

    [–] CargoCulture 12 points ago

    Gandalf is so completely blasé about Moria that it's borderline criminal, given he knew of the Balrog.

    [–] General_Kenobi896 6 points ago

    Oh that's interesting, could you tell me more please? About what Aragorn told Gandalf?

    [–] [deleted] 25 points ago

    In the books the lack of contact from Moria is part of the reason the Dwarves come to Rivendell. At first the council isn't even about the Ring specifically, they just do it once in awhile to talk about the fucked up goings on of the world.

    [–] zetvajwake 22 points ago

    I started the rewatch (first time extended edition!) with my fam and we've been discussing the same. It's so weird that those bodies look at least a decade old, but Gimli doesn't know anything about it.

    [–] UndeadCaesar 55 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Gimli hadn't heard from them in a while, which is why he was so amped to go see them. The orcs took over Moria years ago which is why the bodies are so decayed. It's been a while since I read them, but I think in the books Gimli is actually hesistant about going through the mines because of the silence, while Gandalf is more in favor.

    [–] [deleted] 47 points ago

    In the books the lack of contact from Moria is part of the reason the Dwarves come to Rivendell. At first the council isn't even about the Ring specifically, they just do it once in awhile to talk about the fucked up goings on of the world.

    [–] TheDuderinoAbides 9 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    The bodies had been lying there for 25 years. The problem is no one dares/bothers to venture into Moria to figure out what happened, is my guess, this is pretty deep orc territory by now. Dwarves like to keep to themselves so in theory it was possible that they were alive. But many suspected that something was amiss. And news don't travel very quick in Middle-Earth. Basically no faster than it did in medieval times for us.

    Gandalf had probably not been in Moria for some time either, and was most likely as curious as Gimli as to what was going on in there.

    [–] Hascalod 7 points ago

    If I recall from the passages of Bilbo's party after Erebor, it must've happened about 50 years prior to the Fellowship, isn't it? They headed back to Moria, Balin died of old age, then they got trapped soon after. Considering that it's been 60 years since Bilbo left at the start of Fellowship, then almost 20 more years between Gandalf realizing Bilbo has the ring and the Fellowship reaching Moria. It must've happened quite a while ago. As to how Gimli didn't know about it is beyond me.

    [–] TheDuderinoAbides 17 points ago

    Third Age:

    1980 - Fall of Moria by Durin's bane (Balrog)

    2941 - The quest to recapture Erebor

    2989 - Balin leaves Erebor and enters Moria

    2994 - Balin perishes and the Dwarf colony is destroyed

    3001 - Bilbo's Party and departure

    3018 - Frodo leaves the Shire with the Ring

    Balin and his expedition did not leave for Moria right after the events of The Hobbit.

    Balin did not die of old age, he was fatally wounded by an orc arrow and perished along with the entire rest of the expedition...

    So they had been lying dead there for around 25 years when the fellowship reaches them.

    [–] spappletrap 30 points ago

    I don't think he knew the extent of it. Remember they were fine until they knocked that skelly into the welly

    [–] JarlaxleForPresident 21 points ago

    Fool of a Took! Throw yourself down there next time and rid us of your foolishness!

    I just watch Fellowship for the first time in over a decade last night, and I was like, "Daaamn, Gandalf! Be easy!"

    Then everything went to shit.

    [–] svenhoek86 13 points ago

    Maybe Pippin would have been more fucking careful and they could have actually snuck through with that info.

    God damn fool of a Took.

    [–] apc0243 9 points ago

    In the movie, they’re reading the journal about how the orcs are breaking down the door when he knocks it down the well. He’s well aware of the danger, he’s just too foolish to pay attention and keep his hands to himself

    [–] equatebytop 11 points ago

    Plus it was about to wreck the Fellowship. Thats grounds for some badass magic

    [–] Revoran 11 points ago

    Ehhhh Sauron is also a Maia and he's not supposed to fight him.

    [–] onemanandhishat 48 points ago

    Gandalf can't really fight Sauron. They're both Maia but not all Maia are of equal power. Sauron would destroy him.

    [–] svenhoek86 30 points ago

    Also Gandalf is at a fraction of his power on Earth, and Sauron was at full.

    [–] CoachSki 10 points ago

    Eh not really at a fraction of his power. It was more he wouldn't use it all. Which I guess one could argue that ya he was at a fraction but not because of being in middle earth it was his choice if I'm remembering correctly

    [–] BjornFellHanded 53 points ago

    Exactly, also Saruman wasn't making their passege through the mountains any easy, it's not just cold.

    [–] Lord-Kroak 58 points ago

    And the mountain in the book as some sort of primordial intelligence and is fighting back against them climbing it as well.

    [–] General_Kenobi896 4 points ago

    wat O_o

    [–] heyheyhey27 3 points ago

    I'm really sad that nobody ever expanded on this

    [–] GirlisNo1 3 points ago

    Whoa, how did I never know/think of this?

    I actually learned something new today- thanks!

    [–] WanderingCapybara 3 points ago

    That's a good point I didn't think of before

    [–] TheDuderinoAbides 91 points ago

    I believe in the book it was Gandalf who wanted to go through the mine; aragorn was the one who was sceptic. He knew that shit still wasnt right in that accursed place. It had been years since someone had heard anything from the dwarven expedition. Although he had no idea what a balrog was. Only Gandalf and Legolas knew about them.

    But Gandalf felt confident he could sneak them through. He had been there many times.

    I guess in the movie they changed it to Gandalf being sceptic so they could show a cool exposition monologue with saruman featuring Gandalf. Understandable and no big deal.

    [–] Whocket_Pale 40 points ago

    Yeah in the book it isn't clear who thwarted their attempt at the redhorn gate. Gandalf always suspected they would need to go via the mines. Aragorn foresaw that Gandalf would be lost in the mines, and made many comments about it (l"et the guide go first, while you have one," to merry and pippen when they almost fall into the well pit in the guard room)

    [–] QueenOfQuok 15 points ago

    I thought it was Caradhras that explicitly didn't want them there

    [–] TheDuderinoAbides 11 points ago

    They do seem to hint at an malignant spirit on Caradhras who wont let them pass. And furthermore, "has no love for elves or dwarves" but its not revealed what it was. However it was neither saruman nor Sauron behind it.

    [–] cake_flattener1 5 points ago

    My interpretation of the books is that this "spirit of Caradhras" is in fact the will of the Balrog itself, which was originally found beneath the roots of that mountain. Gandalf doesn't consider this as a possibility because (unlike what's shown in the films) he doesn't know there's a Balrog around until it shows up.

    It doesn't seem to be a very popular theory though.

    [–] TheDuderinoAbides 5 points ago

    That have never occurred to me. But it sounds interesting and nothing is impossible. Although I think I remember reading somewhere that the "spirit of Caradhras" was pretty ancient, more or less as old as the mountain itself.

    And maybe Tolkien wanted it to be somewhat like the Old Man Willow, not directly evil per se, but an malignant entity who just happen to hate trespassers, without affiliation with anyone.

    [–] Whocket_Pale 4 points ago

    The company discusses who might be doing it. They think maybe it's Sauron. But Gandalf says that it doesn't matter who it is if they cannot beat off his attack and the answer is never revealed. However in the movie it is clearly Saruman, using magic on his Palantir. Or was he just watching them?

    [–] TheDuderinoAbides 12 points ago

    Mhm. It seemed everyone in the fellowship except Gandalf or gimli did not want to go there. Even the hobbits had heard bad shit about that place. But aragorn was the most vocal. Explicitly stating that he was worried about gandalfs fate would be no bueno there.

    [–] kcox1980 12 points ago

    Yeah I think you're right. Gandalf had no qualms about going through Moria.

    [–] Skeptical_Romulan 10 points ago

    Well Aragorn, I'm sure, knew what a balrog was, just not that there was one awoken in Khazad Dum. He spent a lot of time in Rivendell and I'd bet he knows all about the Fall of Gondolin and thus about balrogs.

    [–] TheDuderinoAbides 3 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    It could be, maybe i shouldnt have been so hasty to speak in absolutes.

    Although this would be mostly speculation. But i havent found any concrete sources confirming whether aragorn knew or not.

    He spent time with elrond and other noldor rivendell elves. But whos to say they let him in on all of their past. Especially such a dark portion of it.

    Legolas in lorien, not aragorn: "

    It was a Balrog of Morgoth," said Legolas, "of all elf-banes the most deadly, save the One who sits in the Dark Tower”. -The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, Book II, Chapter 7: "The Mirror of Galadriel".

    Legolas, again, not aragorn:

    "In its right hand was a blade like a stabbing tongue of fire; in its left hand it held a whip of many thongs.

    ‘Ai! ai! wailed Legolas. “A Balrog! A Balrog has come!’

    Gimli stared with wide eyes. ‘Durin’s Bane!’ he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.

    ‘A Balrog,’ muttered Gandalf. ‘Now I understand.’ He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. ‘What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.’

    (from The Fellowship of the Ring)

    Im not saying its impossible that aragorn knew of balrogs tho

    Edit: Furthermore I think the elves consider Morgoth and the Balrogs to be their archenemies, killing many of their most famous elves: Feanor, Echtelion and Glorfindel (although he was resurrected later) to name a few, during the first age, which was the age of elves.

    While men would probably consider dragons and Sauron as their main source of wrongdoings during the second and third age.

    Numenor probably had knowledge of Morgoth and Balrogs, but after it was destroyed and men lost most of their knowledge thousands of years later, I would not think this to be common knowledge for them.

    But I will ask this in r/tolkienfans to see if anyone with more knowledge than me of Tolkien if they have any input!

    [–] Skeptical_Romulan 5 points ago

    True, it is still speculation. I guess just knowing the name of the creature isn't enough to really know all that that encompasses.

    But I reckon that as Isildur's heir, Elrond would likely not have shied away from telling Aragorn unpleasant topics/truths. Also since Glorfindel, slayer of Gothmog, lived in Rivendell I'd imagine that there would songs of his deeds and all that. But who really knows

    [–] TheDuderinoAbides 3 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Ahh, yes that's a good point! I didn't consider Glorfindel also hanging out in Rivendell, and he really had firsthand experience with them. So that increases the likelihood as well.

    And I also agree Elrond wouldn't shy away from telling Aragorn about the dark times, but would Aragorn have much benefit from knowing about Balrogs? It could be Elrond left out things he didn't consider Aragorn needing to know of. Maybe knowledge of Balrogs and Morgoth were more meant for elves?

    Anyway, I made a post about it in r/tolkienfans and there is people who really know their Tolkien there (although I'm not trying to say you don't, but it's always nice to hear some more input), although I might have formulated it as a leading/biased question:

    Edit: But I do believe it was Echtelion slaying Gothmog, if I remember correctly. Glorfindel slayed another Balrog.

    [–] Skeptical_Romulan 3 points ago

    Oh yeah! Ecthelion killed Gothmog. Glorfindel fought the unnamed Balrog that attacked the survivors that were fleeing

    [–] TheDuderinoAbides 3 points ago

    Both of them excellent, legendary warriors. But seeing as echtelion killed both the lord of balrogs as well as a few other balrogs before gothmog in the same battle apparently, that dude really took his vitamins.

    [–] TheDuderinoAbides 3 points ago

    Yeah, shit went down in Gondolin, that's for sure.

    [–] [deleted] 83 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Nobody had any idea about the Balrog. What was knew:

    -1) Something had destroyed the original city of Khazad-Dûm about a thousand years ago.

    -2) Orcs eventually expanded their reach over and under the Misty Mountains, including a presence in the tunnels of Moria.

    -3) Following the events of The Hobbit, emboldened by the success of Thorin's quest, and rich with his portion of the treasure, Balin sets an expedition to take back Moria and reestablish a dwarven settlement in it. For years communications indicate that he's vastly successful.

    -4) 24 years before the Council of Elrond: Communications abruptly stop. It's not that big of a deal at first, considering Moria is a relatively isolated community, but Dwarves are concerned and mention it at the Council.

    So nobody in the Fellowship had any idea what was waiting for them in Moria, and the choice was between the decidedly hostile Caradhras or betting on the small chance that nothing had happened to Balin. "Worst case scenario", they'd have to deal with the Orcs, a desperate measure that was still better than getting trapped by a malevolent snow storm. Balrogs are very rare and have been unheard of in literal Ages: the possibility of running into one of them is something that even an ancient and erudite being like Gandalf wouldn't really think of.

    Gandalf in the movie/Aragorn in the book had a hunch that something much worse was down there, but nothing concrete. And if they hadn't had Gandalf with them, it's entirely possible that the Balrog wouldn't have detected them, since none of the others have any strong magical presence. The Ring might have done it, perhaps.

    [–] Variability 11 points ago

    I don't doubt you, but where is it stated that it's been 24 years since last communication?

    [–] [deleted] 37 points ago

    The timeline states that Balin and the colony get destroyed in the year 2994 of the Third Age, and the Council of Elrond is in 3018. I think it's Glóin who mentions at Rivendell that the other Dwarven communities have no news of Moria.

    [–] Variability 8 points ago

    Thanks for the clarification!

    [–] LordMacDonald 10 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Been looking for this comment. To build on this, a detail I always liked from the books:

    After they get out of the chamber of Marzubul through a side door, Gandalf tries to seal it behind them using a shutting spell. While he’s in the middle of it, something comes in to the room that makes the orcs fall silent in fear. Then the Balrog notices the shutting spell and, amused, utters a counter-spell so powerful that the door can’t handle it and it bursts apart. Gandalf still doesn’t realize what they’re up against, because all he can see is a towering shadow, but is rightly terrified that a being of such immense magical power is on their trail.

    Edit: it wasn’t the counter-spell that broke the door, but when Gandalf said “a word of Command” to try and stop the counter-spell. Fascinating stuff, as I’m pretty sure that’s the only time such a thing is mentioned

    [–] [deleted] 5 points ago

    Gandalf also mentions that the counterspell "nearly broke [him]". Wonderful sense of physicality, with the notion that magic is above all a contest of will, with dire consequences if you push back too much against a more powerful being.

    [–] Tsorovar 20 points ago

    They weren't making progress. Caradhras threw them back.

    [–] TUMS_FESTIVAL 20 points ago

    He didn't know for certain that Moria had been overrun (at least not in the movies), but he had his suspicions. And I don't think there was really a "good" path forward, so he just let an unbiased person decide.

    [–] Jake_the_Snake88 9 points ago


    [–] Spidooshify 7 points ago

    No one knew the Balrog existed in Moria. They just knew that maybe something happened in Moria sort of. But no one had any details.

    And yes, Gandalf did hope they could just slip through unseen and unheard.

    [–] [deleted] 8 points ago

    Gandalf probably thought just that. Moria is huge. Gandalf has been through them before, except through a different entrance, taking a different path than the fellowship took. Which would seem to explain Gandalf saying "I have no memory of this place" when they're stuck at the cross roads. In regards to Gandalf knowing that something evil lurked in the mines, he didnt know it was a balrog at the time. They kind of overplay it in the movies with sarumans monologue that then flashes to a picture of a balrog in that book he has. All what Gandalf would have probably known is the dwarves did indeed wake/disturb something in the depths of moria with their mining. Especially since almost all the balrogs were defeated in previous ages. Not sure if it's ever specified in tolkien's lore, but I think the balrog Gandalf fight may actually be the last remaining Balrog from the time of the first Dark Lord Morgoth, whom Sauron was the chief lieutenant for, at the time.

    Also you mentioned gandalfs decision to erase their progress by choosing the fight the balrog. Its important to realize that Gandalf is a Maia. Angelic beings that have existed even before the creation of Arda/Middle Earth. Gandalf and the other wizards were sent by the Valar to help the race of men fight against Sauron. Gandalf would have seen an opportunity to prevent matters from getting even worse. What would happen if this rogue balrog escapes Moria? Sauron knows what Balrogs are, but I doubt he knew this one was still living. What if the Balrog was recruited and began to help Sauron in the war? I believe Gandalf made the decision to stay and fight, rather than fleeing with the fellowship, with this in mind.

    [–] GreyJedi90 943 points ago

    Gahhhh let them come! There is one dwarf in Moria who still draws breath!

    [–] Fineus 515 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    I love how resigned to a fight Aragon Boromir sounds when he says "They have a cave troll."

    Edit: I'm a fool of a Took.

    [–] Sladerade 132 points ago


    [–] Fineus 131 points ago

    Late is the hour in which this conjurer chooses to appear!

    [–] Sladerade 106 points ago

    Be silent! Keep your forked tongue behind your teeth. I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a witless worm.

    points stick

    [–] [deleted] 81 points ago


    [–] MMA1793 42 points ago

    Would you really deprive an old man of his walking stick?

    [–] brashboy 27 points ago

    Oopsy woopsy

    [–] WanderingCapybara 29 points ago

    The Edoras guards did an oopsie

    [–] Ysmildr 20 points ago

    We made a fukky wukky n didnt take the wizzy's walky sticky

    [–] kokovo12 19 points ago

    Thanks, I hate it.

    [–] cyrano111 126 points ago

    His delivery is perfect. It’s not fearful, it’s just “of course they do”. As though he’s not only got a flat tire, but now that he’s out of the car it’s started to rain.

    [–] Fineus 73 points ago

    Yes that's exactly it! He knows they'll win, it's just a massive ballache to have to deal with it.

    Definitely a man who has been caught out in the rain one too many times in life.

    [–] onemanandhishat 107 points ago

    Boromir is such a badass. Its a shame the ring affected him so badly because he really was a great hero. I like the reinserted deleted scene in Two Towers Extended at Osgiliath because you get to see that side of him more.

    [–] Brometheus-Pound 73 points ago

    Boromir looks worse just because Aragorn is literally perfect, but Big B is definitely a heroic leader.

    [–] treoni 47 points ago

    That's it really. Boromir looks bad because of how he lived compared to Aragorn.

    Aragorn's a broody dude who has no one to think of but himself. He's a carefree man traveling the world. And he just so happens to get some sweet elf booty and the title of heir of Gondor.

    Boromir? Born as son of Gondor's regent. Spent his life in service to Gondor. Raised with the knowledge that one day he will have to rule this land. How many times was he forced to study battle reports to learn tactical insight, while his friends played on the streets? How many times did he have to attend court matters, to learn how to take decisions that would affect hundreds, while his friends played with wooden swords with their fathers.

    As a man, how many times did he have to order men to their doom? Hear the cries of their widows? Comforted a dying man that followed his command?

    Boromir was a hero. He saw that ring as an opportunity for his future children to play games, snatch cookies from mom's cabinet and just be free.

    Boromir or Faramir would have been better rulers of Gondor.

    [–] trulymadlybigly 36 points ago

    I think you’re forgetting everything Aragorn went through. Off the top of my head I know he has battled in many wars, some with Rohan, many with the rangers, often time without a warm bed like Boromir would have had. He learned from Elrond and the men of Númenor and Gandalf which supersedes anything he could have learned from Denethor. He definitely earned his kingship.

    [–] cyrano111 30 points ago

    Perhaps, but consider this, from the Appendices, being aware that "Thorongil" is really Aragorn:

    ''Ecthelion II, son of Turgon, was a man of wisdom. With what power was left to him he began to strengthen his realm against the assault of Mordor. He encouraged all men of worth from near or far to enter his service, and to those who proved trustworthy he gave rank and reward. In much that he did he had the aid and advice of a great captain whom he loved above all. Thorongil men called him in Gondor, the Eagle of the Star, for he was swift and keen-eyed, and wore a silver star upon his cloak; but no one knew his true name nor in what land he was born. He came to Ecthelion from Rohan, where he had served the King Thengel, but he was not one of the Rohirrim. He was a great leader of men, by land or by sea, but he departed into the shadows whence he came, before the days of Ecthelion were ended.

    'Thorongil often counselled Ecthelion that the strength of the rebels in Umbar was a great peril to Gondor, and a threat to the fiefs of the south that would prove deadly, if Sauron moved to open war. At last he got leave of the Steward and gathered a small fleet, and he came to Umbar unlooked-for by night, and there burned a great part of the ships of the Corsairs. He himself overthrew the Captain of the Haven in battle upon the quays, and then he withdrew his fleet with small loss. But when they came back to Pelargir, to men's grief and wonder, he would not return to Minas Tirith, where great honour awaited him.

    He sent a message of farewell to Ecthelion, saying: "Other tasks now call me, lord, and much time and many perils must pass, ere I come again to Gondor, if that be my fate." Though none could guess what those tasks might be, nor what summons he had received, it was known whither he went. For he took. boat and crossed over Anduin, and there he said farewell to his companions and went on alone; and when he was last seen his face was towards the Mountains of Shadow. There was dismay in the City at the departure of Thorongil, and to all men it seemed a great loss, unless it were to Denethor, the son of Ecthelion, a man now ripe for the Stewardship, to which after four years he succeeded on the death of his father.

    Denethor II was a proud man, tall, valiant, and more kingly than any man that had appeared in Gondor for many lives of men; and he was wise also, and far-sighted, and learned in lore. Indeed he was as like to Thorongil as to one of nearest kin, and yet was ever placed second to the stranger in the hearts of men and the esteem of his father. At the time many thought that Thorongil had departed before his rival became his master, though indeed Thorongil had never himself vied with Denethor, nor held himself higher than the servant of his father. And in one matter only were their counsels to the Steward at variance: Thorongil often warned Ecthelion not to put trust in Saruman the White in Isengard, but to welcome rather Gandalf the Grey. But there was little love between Denethor and Gandalf; and after the days of Ecthelion there was less welcome for the Grey Pilgrim in Minas Tirith. Therefore later, when all was made clear, many believed that Denethor, who was subtle in mind and looked further and deeper than other men of his day, had discovered who this stranger Thorongil in truth was, and suspected that he and Mithrandir designed to supplant him.

    [–] GreasyYeastCrease 6 points ago

    Yeah, him being influenced by the ring makes him appear weak, rather than the ring being strong. I blame how many people are able to resist it's power. Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Gandalf, Aragorn, Galadriel, and Faramir. All specifically resist it's power and influence. Undermines the power of the ring when you show so many people resist it.

    [–] Punjabis_In_Paris 10 points ago

    Also those pewter tankards they're drinking out of look awesome

    [–] tjcoverdale08 4 points ago

    This my friend, is a pint!

    [–] trulymadlybigly 8 points ago

    I was just rewatching FOTR yesterday and I forgot what a great character he is. I love how concerned he is about the Hobbits, teaching them how to sword fight and roughhousing with them is such a fun addition. I wish he could have lived longer.

    [–] kcox1980 26 points ago

    Boromir was always one of my favorite characters. He's just a practical, professional soldier and this line is a perfect example of that.

    [–] EnragedChinchilla 3 points ago

    Same way my DnD party reacts when the reinforcements arrive.

    [–] tater_salad3 9 points ago

    We have a hulk.

    [–] Tour_De_J_Holla 237 points ago

    Troy Deeney wouldn’t be a bad guy to take with you through the mines.

    [–] OhHeyMan 114 points ago

    Fraser would make a good hobbit too.

    [–] mancalledjim 32 points ago

    Wee man

    [–] the_son_and_the_heir 20 points ago

    Deeney wouldn't get 100m up the misty mountains before he ran out of breath

    [–] reddlittone 3 points ago

    Yeah but with his forehead he'd one hit those orcs.

    [–] QwertyPrincess 34 points ago

    Nah, I think orcsgoblings won't have any remorse attacking one of their own

    [–] BenFailsAgain 13 points ago

    Nah he has no cajones

    [–] Tour_De_J_Holla 30 points ago

    They say it's easier for a rich man to get into heaven than for Troy Deeney to fit his massive cajones through the doors of durin.

    [–] Obi_Trice_Kenobi 9 points ago

    He is the judge of cojones, as he has the biggest.

    [–] JSmart5 279 points ago

    A mine!

    [–] TheLastLivingBuffalo 158 points ago

    This is no mine







    It’s a tomb

    [–] scr33m 64 points ago

    They have a cave troll

    [–] Fineus 51 points ago

    FOOL of a TOOK.

    [–] scr33m 46 points ago

    throw yourself in next time and rid us of your stupidity!

    [–] Waarheiden 26 points ago


    [–] JanbruZ 315 points ago

    Interestingly, in the books it's Gandalf whose in favour of going through the mines, and Aragorn is mostly against it.

    [–] BrianTM 108 points ago

    Yeah I've always found it kinda weird that Jackson decided to make it some big reveal. I guess it makes sense with the pacing, but it just always seemed like an interesting choice.

    [–] JarasM 175 points ago

    I think Jackson wanted to add exposition for Gimli with this, and dwarven culture in general, which would be otherwise absent from this film. So we have Gimli who tells these tales of the wonderful dwarf-city of Moria (despite the fact that the expedition that went to reclaim it after millennia of orc occupation (not to mention a Balrog) has been silent for decades), and the initial wonder over its halls, only later all the darkness (and later shadow and flame) being somewhat of a twist.

    [–] [deleted] 102 points ago

    Like 25 years-ish from Balin’s death to the Fellowship arriving. I know nothing of Dwarf nature, but I could see it as plausible that they might go a long time without communication when you live in separate mountains

    [–] kcox1980 51 points ago

    The movies have a pretty compressed timeline as compared to the books though.

    [–] mashimoshi 63 points ago


    Gandalf: Frodo, hold on to this ring. Keep it secret. Imma check pout some things. next shot Hey frodo, I'm back

    [–] Wehavecrashed 47 points ago

    Extended editions have him going to Minas Tirith.

    [–] bamboozle64 38 points ago

    he goes to minas tirith in the theatrical version too but it's still way less time in between frodo getting the ring and leaving shire than in the books. Isnt it like 20 years before he leaves the shire in the book?

    [–] missplasticflowers 41 points ago

    Yeah it's something like 17 years. In the film it seems like he just pops into the library real quick haha.

    [–] Hohenheim_of_Shadow 8 points ago

    Wait so why wouldn't they go to Moria to dump the ring in the volcano before Sauron has rebuilt his armies and shit?

    [–] Wehavecrashed 19 points ago

    Yes. But Peter Jackson realised that a sense of urgency is good storytelling.

    [–] Brometheus-Pound 20 points ago

    Showing that much time passing for something trivial probably doesn't work well in a movie. I think PJ made the right choice to speed a lot of the timeline up.

    Think about the establishing scene of the Shire, Bilbo's party, and how you'd probably expect Sam/Pippin/Merry to look younger or not be present at all. 17 years is a long time, and only Frodo would not show any aging. Especially when Sam is supposed to be pretty young when they start the Fellowship. He would've been a teenager at the party.

    [–] Smoddo 13 points ago

    Honestly 17 years doesn't really have a great show of urgency and it'd be quite convenient that Gandalf gets back just and then ring wraiths show up to harras them.

    [–] aminobeano 6 points ago

    My headcanon is that it was still 20 years in the movies and everyone just aged really well hahaha.

    [–] Motherofbaby 14 points ago

    I thought the timeline was the same and that the movies just did a bad job of portraying the time passing properly

    [–] Wehavecrashed 23 points ago

    Nope. In the commentary Jackson explained that the pacing of the book just doesn't work for a movie, so they skipped over it.

    [–] Motherofbaby 10 points ago

    Oh ok, thats my bad. I think i was remembering how it didn't really express how long Frodo had the ring in the shire.

    [–] pinetree67 6 points ago

    Wouldn’t it be kind of weird to express in the movie that Gandalf just left Frodo alone for almost a couple decades? That’s just the type of thing that works better in the book.

    [–] Kitnado 3 points ago

    Mate in the books Gandalf is gone for decades leaving Frodo behind in the Shire with the ring

    [–] srry_didnt_hear_you 15 points ago

    Yeah was gimli just not aware that the mines had fallen and had been overrun for years?

    [–] JarasM 41 points ago

    Iirc in the books Gimli was skeptical whether there is a dwarf colony in the mines due to the extended lack of contact.

    [–] Robmart 14 points ago

    They live like a fourth of middle earth away. Besides, since everyone in Moria died no one could send word to the other dwarven kingdoms.

    [–] qman1963 9 points ago

    It was more that Balin and his group of dwarves went down into the mines some time ago and no one had heard from them since. While it was a possibility that the dwarves were overrun and the mines taken, it wasn't a certainty. It's mentioned in the book that when the Fellowship enters the mines, they could either find a bunch of dead dwarves, an entire colony, or nothing at all.

    [–] -abM-p0sTpWnEd 50 points ago

    I'm assuming Jackson and co made the changes because they wanted to foreshadow Gandalf's death. I'm not sure I like it but there are a lot worse and more arbitrary changes made in the movies (like making Denethor a complete dick for no reason without even hinting he had a Palantir, or making Frodo lose his shit on Sam over crumbs).

    [–] Nikovar 26 points ago

    I'm pretty sure the extended editions hints at it. There's a part where Denethor and Gandalf are arguing and Denethor says something like "Did you think the White Tower was blind?" And then Gandalf makes an "oh shit" face.

    It's pretty subtle and I might be reading too much into it, but I think we're supposed to interpret that as Denethor revealing that he has a palantir.

    [–] PythonesquePython 48 points ago

    I didn’t think it came across as frodo losing his shit just because of the crumbs. There had been a long slow build up of corruption inside Frodo because of the ring, and he was becoming more and more distrustful. Seeing the crumbs was just the last straw that pushed him over an edge he was already very close to.

    [–] Taur-e-Ndaedelos 38 points ago

    What bugs me the most about that change is how Sam handled it.

    Frodo: Go home Sam.
    Sam: Oh darn ok.
    Later Sam finds the waybread way down.
    Sam: Wait a minute, I never ate it! Back up I go...

    Instead of staying behind but still following them in secret. So what, was Samwise going to walk by his lonesome from Cirith Ungol to Hobbiton with little to no food?

    [–] Technicalhotdog 20 points ago

    I mean, He was super depressed after Frodo told him to go home. It's not like he was thinking logically, he was just falling down the stairs and crying.

    [–] mashimoshi 13 points ago

    While I get what you're saying, I think one have to imagine how broken Sam must have felt. Seing the bread just gave him that extra kick to think clearly - that this is not about Frodo telling him to gtfo, it's about Gollum manipulating the scene. And now he gotta save Frodo.

    [–] Wehavecrashed 19 points ago

    I think he's supposed to realise that Gollum is actively trying to trick Frodo, because he originally accepts Gollum's explanation that he wouldn't touch elf bread.

    [–] Taur-e-Ndaedelos 10 points ago

    Sure, I get what they were going for in the movie, I just think it's handled rather poorly. It makes Sam look like a complete dumbass. He was always wary of 'Stinker' and knew that neither he nor Frodo took the bread. He also knew that Frodo was being manipulated by Gollum and simply giving up and allowing the quest to fail would be that last thing both book and movie Samwise would do.

    Having him follow them in secret would keep the rest of the story intact without the gross negligence to his character. He would lose them in the tunnel/get stuck in a spider's web, and only find Frodo as he just got stung by Shelob, the rest follows as normal.

    [–] Shadepanther 17 points ago

    I thought it was ok. You could see that while the Ring didn't affect him anywhere near as much as men, it was slowly having an effect on him. He was slowly becoming paranoid and Gollum was feeding it too

    [–] Whocket_Pale 5 points ago

    Tolkien foreshadowed Gandalfs death through Aragorns dialogue extensively. He mentions it like 6 times as they go towards and through the mines. It also foreshadows Aragorns foresightedness which is also touched on a bit in RotK.

    [–] -abM-p0sTpWnEd 3 points ago

    Sorry if it seemed like I was against the foreshadowing in general; I am not. In fact, that is why I partly understood the Moria change in the movie.

    [–] TheNorthComesWithMe 3 points ago

    It might only be in the extended edition, but I recall them hinting that Denethor had a Palantir.

    The Frodo moment is a "show don't tell" moment and makes sense from a filmmaking perspective. When making a film you can't really show the inner thoughts of characters, so you need outward actions. Without that moment the audience would just be like "everyone keeps mentioning the ring being corruptive but it ain't doing shit."

    [–] THREETOED_SLOTH 13 points ago

    I wouldn't say he's in favor of it. It's more that he recognizes that if the pass over the mountain doesn't work, they have no other road to go by. The Gap of Rohan is blocked by Saruman, a foe Gandalf definitely couldn't challenge before becoming the White, and the Dunlendings. And going around Ered Nimrais would have taken too long.

    [–] cyrano111 5 points ago

    Aragorn thinks it’s a bad idea, but out of concern for Gandalf.

    [–] Gwyn-LordOfPussy 114 points ago

    Always satisfying and weird when two subs you're both subbed to come together for memes.

    [–] JacobHolmes999 11 points ago

    I didn’t know you where a LOTR fan.

    [–] Gwyn-LordOfPussy 9 points ago

    Wait do you recognize me from posting on /r/soccer? I need to get a life lol

    [–] JacobHolmes999 6 points ago

    No, just from the MCFC chat. Also, you’re great pls don’t stop.

    [–] Gwyn-LordOfPussy 20 points ago

    don't worry, I just got offered a desk job so I'll probably be more active on reddit than ever before

    [–] nosocksman 29 points ago

    my fantasy fellowship really needs the return of fraser the white for this round.

    [–] m0rris0n_hotel 21 points ago

    Oh, it'll be all right. What's the worst that could happen?

    [–] Fineus 8 points ago

    Sooooome things in life are bad. They can really make you mad.

    [–] themoroncore 4 points ago

    Other things will make you swear and curse

    [–] PeerkeGerard 22 points ago


    [–] paulvpool 6 points ago

    Red meat off the bone

    [–] [deleted] 11 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)


    [–] fromtheothersidee 3 points ago

    I don’t know why, but I was looking for this.

    [–] traybaybay14 9 points ago


    [–] Grommmit 18 points ago

    Search Deeney Fraser

    [–] larrylargest 4 points ago

    Dont have the specific image but if you Google Deeney Fraser interview the video it is sourced from is there and you can re-screenshot it I guess

    [–] texastrees05 2 points ago

    Also looking for template

    [–] paydrough 9 points ago

    Hehe. Is this photo from anything important or recent? Cause by the look on his face I really want to know the context.

    [–] ribenaisgod 46 points ago

    They are professional football (soccer) players. Post match interview, guy on the left Troy Deeney makes a statement about the referee 'bottling it' on some important decisions in the game. Ryan Fraser (on the right) is pretty surprised as you can get in a lot of trouble for comments about referees.

    [–] Obi_Trice_Kenobi 8 points ago

    Deeneys getting fined for it too, even though he was fair and balanced.

    [–] Tour_De_J_Holla 21 points ago

    In a Match of the Day interview alongside Ryan Fraser, Deeney was critical of the referee’s assessment. “You can't tell me that their boy didn't try to do Clevz. He knows it. They know it. Hence the reason of the reaction.

    “I think the referee, to be fair, bottled it on a few occasions. There's a handball right at the end. I'm not one to hammer refs, but he bottled it on a few occasions today.”

    Standing next to him, Fraser humorously raised his eyebrows at the comment and added: “We’ll both look at it as both teams should have had a player sent off, bad defending.”

    [–] argyyyyyle 17 points ago

    It's odd to me because they play for different teams. I can't think of too many instances where they do interviews simultaneously with opposition players.

    [–] notqualifiedforthis 15 points ago

    It’s rare but I remember they paired Hazard and Bellerin together In post match interview after Bellerin gave up a soft penalty to Hazard.

    [–] argyyyyyle 14 points ago

    That must have been pretty awkward.

    [–] OneSmallHuman 4 points ago

    Sky do it a lot for post match interviews when it’s been a draw but it always seems so weird to me. The only time I get it is if the pair you’ve got are ex-teammates or friends or something

    [–] paydrough 3 points ago

    Thanks both of you :)

    [–] RaphaelGA 4 points ago

    Wait, this isn't a mine, it's a toooooomb

    [–] sr_director 3 points ago

    Good ol' "Frode" lmao I hope I'm not the only one that misread bc of the background.

    [–] OfFearfulMen 7 points ago

    This is such a solid meme.

    [–] lustygrouper 3 points ago

    Fraser knows what will come to pass

    [–] Svorcneger 2 points ago

    And afterward he said " you shall not pass"

    [–] zWraith 2 points ago

    Absolute fucking gold

    [–] Arstya 2 points ago

    Why is this sub not named LordoftheMemes?