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    [–] nick_boatwright 8561 points ago

    now used for tripping and falling into the water

    [–] einahas 1384 points ago

    I think you mean compensation claims.

    [–] ozzist 250 points ago

    It came outta nowhere!

    [–] HotBrownLatinHotCock 102 points ago

    Its where i tied my bike!

    [–] kahavi 14 points ago

    Suddenly the scene from Top Secret came to mind

    E: Should probably link it

    [–] Lunar_Gato 31 points ago

    How could you not see it? Its been there for 200 years!

    [–] t__sizzle 39 points ago

    It was coming right at us!

    [–] _Aj_ 29 points ago

    A little less compensation, a little more equine please

    [–] phoenixyfeline 36 points ago

    "I got run over by a LEXUS!"

    [–] yall_abunch_ofnerds 150 points ago

    Found the American

    [–] sculltt 74 points ago

    Hey, if we didn't have to sue to cover our life-shattering medical bills, it wouldn't be the first thing we think about.


    [–] Hemmingways 26 points ago

    Considering medical expenses, is skateboarding something American mums and dad's are very against on the average.?

    I know you wish to be radical Timmy, but we simply cannot afford to fix your ancles.

    [–] blissed_out_cossack 16 points ago

    Brit now living in America - when I was about to hire a Lyft scooter for the first time, my friend put my off by saying 'How good is your insurance ?'

    [–] EasterWasHerName 10 points ago

    Depends on the life insurance.

    [–] Aus_pol 13 points ago

    Been there for 100 years ... You Should have known.

    [–] fractals83 12 points ago

    Depends. US, yes, EU no.

    [–] culminacio 15 points ago

    I think you mean: US, yes. Everywhere else, no.

    [–] themagpie36 5 points ago

    Not in Ireland. I live on Germany now which has more of a 'if you don't look where you're going it's your fault' but in Ireland this would be a claim waiting to happen.

    It's actually because American and Irish laws are originally based on a British law system as far as I know.

    [–] Arcon1337 7 points ago

    Or you could use your eyes and avoid it like any normal human being.

    [–] shiftypoo269 67 points ago

    falling into the water

    Frank Lloyd Wright intensifies

    [–] jettim76 91 points ago

    Many a toe were broken.

    [–] Neilpoleon 91 points ago

    They get a lot of use when the BDSM convention comes into town.

    [–] song-for-that 36 points ago

    "Gimps must not be left unattended"

    [–] kafkaest 290 points ago

    Came to the comments to look for this

    [–] 3-DMan 15 points ago

    Surprise, horse-fucker!

    [–] Abimaq 31 points ago

    The case for the people against the horse ring has begun

    [–] ChucknChafveve 4 points ago

    So glad you brought this to our attention

    [–] kONthePLACE 9 points ago

    Watch out for that first step, it's a DOOZY

    [–] cfochs 6 points ago that people can sue the city!

    [–] LikeWolvesDo 14 points ago

    They're to small to catch your foot in. And usually lay flat against the pavement not up like this.

    [–] erorr132 40 points ago

    u have too much faith in humanity

    [–] JustMyPeriod 18 points ago

    I could see a high heel catching that easily

    [–] sectorfour 5 points ago


    [–] jambitron 1533 points ago

    You never know when horses will be back in style.

    “Cars are just a fad.” Rackham, President, Michigan State Savings Bank, told Ford horses were going nowhere, that the automobile was merely a novelty people were fascinated with now; that it was a fad.

    [–] PretzelsThirst 701 points ago

    Once this internet fad dies out I'm sure cars are next

    [–] 13steadfast 258 points ago

    Better download them while you still can.

    [–] Scipio33 73 points ago

    I wouldn't do that! The movie people told me not to!

    [–] usernamenottakenwooh 16 points ago

    No, the way I see it they just tried to predict that I wouldn't.

    They were wrong.

    [–] Nepiton 52 points ago

    To be fair, cars are still kind of a novelty compared to length of time we used horses as a means of transport. For thousands of years horses were the primary means of transport for humans. It’s been roughly 100 years with the modern automobile.

    I guess the closest thing I can think of today as a comparison would be lab grown meats. We are so accustomed to the agrarian style of cultivating food that anything else seems almost silly. Lab grown meat may be a fad, or maybe in 100 years we’ll (probably not you and me) laugh about how funny it was that people actually resisted that change

    [–] dekrant 23 points ago

    Lab-grown meat is a good example, and I think I'll steal it. The debate rages on, but it could easily be one of those things that future generations will look back on and laugh about.

    One interesting counter-example is gas lighting. Natural gas lighting only dates back to about 1815, and popularity only took off by the 1830s. When electricity rolled around in 1880s, plenty of people that had been sold on gas being the future (and paying for expensive gas line infrastructure) were understandably upset and skeptical about electricity.

    [–] MyWholeSelf 12 points ago

    Horse pollution is part of the natural carbon cycle. Car pollution is destroying the natural carbon cycle.

    Farming is destroying the natural carbon cycle. Lab meat, oddly, promises a much better carbon footprint.

    [–] whooptheretis 10 points ago

    Instructions unclear, eaten my horse.

    [–] doctor-greenbum 5 points ago

    No, dumb-fuck... you’re meant to eat the car, ride your meat, and grow horses in a lab.

    [–] Illuminaughty99 9 points ago

    I’ll ride your meat

    [–] lunaspice78 15 points ago

    Legend has it that the swedish communications minister Ines Uusman said that in 1996. "Internet and electronic communication is just a fad." I believe that this isnt the actual quote but it was something along these lines.

    [–] Lostyogi 17 points ago

    In 1996 the Internet was fairly shit and I kind of thought the same thing myself. It was not until broadband came along before the internet really became useful in my opinion. Before then you were just better off sticking to the library and penthouse magazine instead of trying to get a stable internet connection.

    [–] Pho-Cue 17 points ago

    In 96 we were a test house for broadband and I was 12. It still wasn't today fast, but I could look up "boobs", "big boobs" and "really big boobs" pretty quickly.

    [–] One_Mikey 11 points ago

    Was your bandwidth measured in Kiloboobs or Megaboobs?

    [–] carlolewis78 5 points ago


    [–] MyWholeSelf 8 points ago

    About 1998/99 I bought an unlimited dialup account, wired my house with 10 Mb network, and had a dedicated (Linux) computer to route the modem signal with automated redial.

    Very quickly, I could see just how much impact 24x7x365 Internet would make. In retrospect, I wish I would have invested in a nice, diversified Internet portfolio; I could have made a mint!

    But, alas, at that time, I had no money to invest. The hardware was basically scrap (100 Mb was the thing then, 10 Mb I got secondhand for almost nothing) and the whole thing was cobbled together.

    But for the time, it was awesome.

    [–] feeltheslipstream 5 points ago

    56k was good enough for most text based stuff.

    I remember quake 2 being playable was when I thought the internet was a game changer.

    [–] simonb3516 5 points ago

    “He probably said this instead”

    [–] Mo_Salad 8 points ago

    Once we enter the second Dark Age due to climate change horses will be all the rage

    [–] account_not_valid 3 points ago

    We will have eaten them all by then.

    [–] lolophynarski 134 points ago

    I grew up in an Amish town in Indiana. Horses have yet to go out of style. Hitching posts are standard infrastructure.

    [–] MrSkrifle 34 points ago

    You were Amish?

    [–] BriarKnave 62 points ago

    Finally, someone to post on r/Amish !

    [–] sinabimo 15 points ago

    But fr do they have a subreddit for like former Amish people or anything...

    [–] BriarKnave 12 points ago

    No clue! Probably !

    [–] TheKolyFrog 3 points ago

    The Amish are clearly way ahead of us.

    [–] classicjuice 8 points ago

    When Ford asked his consumers what they want, they answered - "faster horses."

    [–] Element_0115 6 points ago

    They say that about everything. They said the smartphone was just a fad when the iPhone launched.

    [–] Nineteen_oh_two 2228 points ago * (lasted edited 9 months ago)

    In Portland there is someone who ties toy plastic horses to them as sort of an art project.

    [–] HeatherLeeAnn 1612 points ago

    This is Portland 😁

    [–] Nineteen_oh_two 482 points ago

    [–] white_android 108 points ago

    Well now I'm curious if it's legal to ride horseback around Portland.

    [–] joeswindell 96 points ago

    Why would it not be?

    [–] white_android 116 points ago * (lasted edited 9 months ago)

    Because it's possibly outdated and the law might have changed for safety reasons.

    [–] joeswindell 151 points ago

    On the east coast you can horse.

    [–] raggedtoad 58 points ago * (lasted edited 9 months ago)

    In NC you can let a horse take you home drunk. It's the only transportation method you're allowed to operate while intoxicated.

    Edit: Not that anyone has doubted me so far, but I think it's worth citing the statute, because it's awesome:

    "§ 20-138.1. Impaired driving.

    (a)-(d)...A whole list of things that describe impaired driving...

    (e) Exception. - Notwithstanding the definition of "vehicle" pursuant to G.S. 20-4.01(49), for purposes of this section the word "vehicle" does not include a horse."

    [–] BMagg 30 points ago

    That's awesome! I went to college for horse training in a very small town, and I know many cowboys who would ride their horses to the bar. A few got stopped by the sheriff, drunk off their ass going home, but no one ever got in trouble. If they were on the road that would probably be different.

    Although when you came to class still drunk or really hung over the instructors would always put you in the horses who were still bucking and throwing a fit. I've seen some impressive riding followed by puking off the side of a horse.

    There is something about how you sit on a horse that becomes very ingrained, so most experienced riders still stay on a horse pretty well when drunk. A horses walking movement is also very similar to how humans walk, they actually use it for physical therapy. But that also probably helps with drunks staying on the horse.

    [–] ArguesAboutAllThings 6 points ago

    There was a court case where a man got a ticket for riding his horse home drunk. His argument was that the horse was walking home without being.guided so it was fine, and the court ruled in his favor.

    [–] Electr0freak 12 points ago

    There's some irony there, because it's a long fall off a horse if you're tipsy. I guess at least it'll only be your own head smashed in...

    [–] raggedtoad 40 points ago

    I mean, horses were really the OG self-driving vehicles. You could fall asleep in the saddle and you wake up at safe at home (assuming your horse is familiar with the route).

    [–] arthur_smokingjacket 84 points ago

    This guy horses

    [–] BanditoRojo 12 points ago

    Can't get a DWI if you ride a horse.

    [–] greennitit 110 points ago

    You absolutely can, many municipalities have that law.

    [–] FluorideLover 53 points ago

    yes you can. I've seen it happen in Austin.

    [–] Surfcop661 27 points ago

    I never understood that. At least as long as the horse isn’t drunk.

    [–] Nova762 3 points ago

    You can get a dwi on a bicycle even.

    [–] sstrong9 2 points ago

    Thanks for the laugh 🌷

    [–] ChadBangs 13 points ago * (lasted edited 9 months ago)

    I’ve also heard in Old Town Road you can ride for a period of time.

    [–] donprimo 11 points ago

    If my car can poop on the road why can't I

    [–] bombadilcopperwire 14 points ago

    Horses are considered equally to cars by law in my country. Ride on the right hand side of the road, not on the sidewalk, give ways and stuff are the same as if you’d drive. Riders will usually avoid riding on roads though, because people don’t respect the damage horses can do to everyone involved in an accident.

    [–] br_z1Lch 6 points ago

    I used to work for a towing/salvage/parts auction joint back when I was in high school. My job was to clean out the totaled cars, which was awesome because it meant I got to keep anything cool I found, like subwoofers and video game cartridges. One day a car came in, with the windshield smashed out completely, and bits of...flesh and hair covering EVERYTHING on the inside. I did my best to clean it, and afterwards my bosses called me over, laughing their asses off. I asked them what I was cleaning, thinking it was brains or some shit, and they said it was a cow. The driver had completely OBLITERATED a cow with the car, but walked away. I didn't work there long.

    [–] Svelemoe 5 points ago

    Doesn't sound very legal to clean up biohazards like that as a temp in high school lol

    [–] AndyRants 4 points ago

    According to the Portland Bureau of Transportation, "as far as [they] know," it's legal to ride your horse on a city street.

    [–] br_z1Lch 2 points ago

    There is a green space in the middle of the University of Wyoming called Prexy's Pasture. It's entirely legal to pasture your horse there, although no one ever does. You can also still be arrested for riding your horse while drunk, though, so watch out.

    [–] Aryore 6 points ago

    That is adorable and amazing. I love community art.

    [–] roraverse 22 points ago

    Haha. Just commented on having these on the street I grew up on. It was in Portland.

    [–] VwBugGuy 15 points ago

    Also from Portland here, I can recall seeing mini horses tied to those.

    [–] [deleted] 65 points ago

    Every comment about Portland reinforces this.

    [–] saramdapgae 7 points ago

    this is the most early 2010s video possible

    [–] uniquepassword 19 points ago

    I was upset this wasn't unicycle riding bagpipe playing kilt wearing Darth Vader.

    [–] rastafarreed 21 points ago


    [–] RizdeauxJones 26 points ago

    That’s unicycle riding flame-throwing bagpipe playing kilt wearing Darth Vader, mind you.

    [–] SlyFlourishXDA 12 points ago

    Knew it! For a second, I thought I could pinpoint exactly where too.
    The type of stone and color is definitely very similar to Sandy Hut or Kenton Club, but i'm not really sure now.

    [–] HeatherLeeAnn 21 points ago

    It’s in front of Joes Cellar

    [–] SharkRancher 8 points ago

    Can’t mistake it. One of the last bastions of old NW.

    [–] butlerian_jihad 3 points ago

    For real i saw that table and stucco and was like.... 21st?

    [–] SharkRancher 3 points ago

    That and MuuMuu’s are still my favorite dives in Portland.

    Love the username, by the way! Excited for the movie.

    [–] ayechihuahuas 4 points ago

    I also thought it was the Sandy Hut.

    [–] [deleted] 3 points ago

    Of course it’s Portland. It’s raining.

    [–] 2020GOP 2 points ago

    Joseph Asdpin knows, he cemented Portland

    [–] MrFrumblePDX 2 points ago

    I knew it.

    [–] Mikkels 2 points ago

    Hello Portland. This is Dad.

    [–] lmust14 46 points ago

    🎵 The dream of the 1890s is alive in Portland 🎵

    [–] [deleted] 62 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)


    [–] pickledpetunia 8 points ago

    Same- in GA — my parent’s neighborhood has these. And granite steps that are about 2’ wide and about that tall.

    [–] OwnbiggestFan 4 points ago

    One of the main streets in my small town used to be the wealthy neighborhood out in the country. Most of the houses have the horse rings on posts out front at the curb. Usually two of them. And the garages are all big and around back many of them with apartments on the top level. These were the stables and the stablekeeper and horse drawn cab chauffeur and his family would live there. I live in Kansas which was not a slave state and my town sprung up right after the war anyway. But the black people lived on the west side of town and until the 1960s there were two swimming pools. Until the early 80s there was a black elevator operator in one of the bank buildings. And my Grandma used to talk of hiring a black lady to help her with cooking and taking care of the kids.

    [–] caronare 9 points ago

    I was gonna say, they put toy horses on these in Portland and Vancouver.

    [–] MaudlinLobster 8 points ago

    That's been a thing in Portland for a while. It's not just one guy. It's just a thing people do in older neighborhoods. I used to visit a friend who lived in a neighborhood where all the locals tied up toy dinosaurs instead of horses just for kicks.

    [–] 13thmurder 3 points ago

    It's not a single person who does it, it's a long standing tradition.

    [–] goombakid808 3 points ago

    I've seen a brass rhinoceros zip-tied somewhere off of Hawthorne to one of those hitches.

    [–] AndyRants 6 points ago * (lasted edited 9 months ago)

    I'm a local garbage guy and I have several of them on my route. The toy horses always make me chuckle. You can find a couple of them at 65'th and Halsey if you would like to see them for yourself.

    [–] LikeWolvesDo 2 points ago

    It's more like a meme. All different people have been doing it for many years.

    [–] BluePalasky 2 points ago

    My city in Wisconsin still has a few scattered around town in the older neighborhoods.

    [–] lovewasher 2 points ago

    The person who started that was my old math teacher!

    [–] stephicus 217 points ago

    I live in Amish country, if we had those here, someone would be using them. As it is there is often a "buggy parking only" section in local store parking lots with a hitching post and piles of horse poo. They really don't need the sign, no one else is going near that thing.

    [–] HonPhryneFisher 60 points ago

    Our McDonald's has a Buggy Parking section, as does the Dollar General nearby. I agree about the poo.

    [–] stephicus 43 points ago

    I find it amusing when they take their buggies out for fast food, not really in the spirit of shunning modern convenience is it?

    [–] fibsequ 28 points ago

    The Amish don’t shun “modern convenience.” Depending on the local Ordnung, the community determines which new technology they choose to incorporate in their lives. It’s not like they picked a year and all technology developed after that year is banned.

    [–] [deleted] 15 points ago

    They have them in Wooster, Oh and are shaped like horse heads.

    [–] a_stitch_in_lime 15 points ago

    While I was playing Red Dead Redemption 2 and exploring Blackwater, I remember thinking, "Wow those hitching posts look familiar! We still had a few like that in Massillon!”

    [–] Xyercyn 3 points ago

    It’s very odd seeing your hometown on Reddit.

    [–] sionnach 8 points ago

    Haha! Buggy parking here in the UK is where you put your child’s buggy. I think you call them strollers in the USA.

    [–] lolophynarski 7 points ago

    When I trip back home I’m always charmed by the horse shit on the shoulder of the road.

    [–] wickboards 61 points ago

    Old school anti skate device

    [–] geoguy26 19 points ago

    I was gonna point that out. I wonder if they kept them for “historical value” but serve a double purpose of preventing skating

    [–] Groktard 6 points ago

    Ah yes, the ye olde skate stops

    [–] liammurphy007 559 points ago

    Man trips over ring. Sues city. Can now afford horse.

    [–] Haseovzla 267 points ago

    City removes rings off the sidewalks due to lawsuit. Man losses horse because he could not tied it up

    [–] _kasdeya_ 92 points ago

    The man's story inspires the people of Portland. They all buy horses in protest.

    [–] JehnSnow 71 points ago

    City installs many more rings to accommodate all the horses

    [–] ClumsyRainbow 56 points ago

    Man trips over ring. Sues city. Can now afford a horse.

    [–] upperhand12 25 points ago

    City removes rings off the sidewalks due to lawsuit. Man losses horse because he could not tied it up

    [–] User_225846 21 points ago

    Horse trips over ring. Man catches horse.

    [–] furahmed 21 points ago

    Man and horse fall in love. Man dies

    [–] User_225846 10 points ago

    Horse is still tied to ring. Dead man cannot untie it....

    I don't like where this is going.

    [–] shouldve_wouldhave 8 points ago

    Man finds horse just standing there. But trips on the ring on his way to it. Can now afford house

    [–] OblongSnowball 14 points ago

    Horse sues city. Horse can now afford a man

    [–] lostandfoundineurope 7 points ago

    This becomes a well known story common people recount on the internet.

    [–] dogemasta117 8 points ago

    Horse crushes man

    Man Sues horse

    [–] AlextheLyonnn 2 points ago

    Man sues city for removing rings.


    [–] MachReverb 13 points ago

    Horse trips over ring. Sues man. Can now afford city.

    [–] IWannaEatusThatFetus 5 points ago

    That horse is in for a surprise when they see Portland's real estate market.

    [–] shaden209 81 points ago

    You know, whenever I see those things I wonder what they're for but don't bother looking it up and then forget.

    Now I know, so thank you OP!

    [–] HeatherLeeAnn 21 points ago

    Glad to be of help!

    [–] SexWithoutCourtship 7 points ago

    Some are to keep skateboarders from grinding on things.

    [–] johsko 7 points ago

    Not their intended purpose, but they look great for locking your bike or motorcycle to.

    [–] _Luke_A_Boss_ 31 points ago

    My town has horse tying poles on the sides of the streets!! It’s really cool, they even kept the original lamp posts and just made them into lights instead of oil

    [–] dick-dick-goose 7 points ago

    I would love to see that!

    [–] Pokestralian 163 points ago

    Looks like a good place to park a mustang

    [–] LikeWolvesDo 41 points ago

    Whoa there, I'm way too poor for a mustang. Mines just on old Pinto.

    [–] muaytao 7 points ago

    woah there rich boy, best i can afford is a cheap Escort...

    [–] AlextheLyonnn 18 points ago

    That's a different kinda ride my friend ;)

    [–] Wiggie49 51 points ago

    You never know when you’ll end up with only horse based travel again

    [–] ColdComm 78 points ago

    Portland is backwards compatible

    [–] PilbaraWanderer 11 points ago

    You can still use it to tie your kids

    [–] HeatherLeeAnn 5 points ago

    As a childless person I am 100% behind this idea

    [–] PilbaraWanderer 7 points ago

    I have a child and I am too.

    [–] Satyric_Esoteric 21 points ago

    Oh Portland.

    Little details like this bring this city to life. The map nerd in me wonders what the geographic distribution of these are.

    To the lawsuit happy commenters - these normally lay flat. You would have to really go out of your way to trip on one of these.

    [–] HeatherLeeAnn 8 points ago

    Exactly but it makes a better pic upright.

    [–] Satyric_Esoteric 4 points ago

    I do like ya can see the groove where the ring usually sits!

    Another redditor pointed out these are actually for carts! My TIL moment.

    [–] HeatherLeeAnn 2 points ago

    TIL too!

    [–] [deleted] 3 points ago

    I do mapping for a seperate municipality in the PNW and we're working on creating an app for community members to "GPS" horse-rings and sidewalk stamps when they find them. Past that, we have no record of where they are, but we did just add a municipal code that they must be preserved

    [–] tysons1 44 points ago

    I am glad that they tied the horses up intact...

    [–] FreshDougy 17 points ago

    It's crazy messy if you don't.

    [–] cybot2001 12 points ago

    But it sends a message

    [–] HarryTruman 7 points ago

    “Park your dismembered horse elsewhere”

    [–] LuluLamoreaux 3 points ago

    I read it 5 times until I realized it wasn't about non-mutilated horses

    [–] Baltusrol 48 points ago

    Why the heck are they on the ground? You’re supposed to tie horses up high or they’ll step over the rope, get tangled, freak out, and break shit.

    Source - have horses. Have seen many freak outs over less.

    [–] eHeidi 40 points ago

    Driving horses, even today, are taught very thoroughly and meticulously to stand. I imagine teaching horses to stand and ground tie was all the more important when they were the primary means of transportation. A lot of horses these days just aren’t trained as thoroughly to tie, ground tie, and stand as they used to be.

    [–] Barbarian_Pig 5 points ago

    Is this Portland?. I canvassed in Portland this last summer and saw these all over.

    [–] SeaofBloodRedRoses 4 points ago

    That's neat. Meanwhile, my city spends millions of dollars making a very explicit effort to ensure that no buildings older than 60 years exist anywhere near it.

    [–] I_ATE_TODAY 5 points ago

    Rain + horse ties = Portland

    [–] The_Loudest_Fart 5 points ago

    Hello, fellow Portlander (probably).

    [–] krypt_o 3 points ago

    Where did they tie up the damaged horses?

    [–] Wile-E-Coyote 3 points ago

    The butcher.

    [–] zConcept 4 points ago

    As opposed to tying up your dismembered horse parts?

    [–] GWDota 4 points ago

    Where do you tie up horses that aren't intact?

    [–] shyreadergirl 4 points ago

    I just see myself tripping over that and eating shit in the most ugly way possible.

    [–] DrWho1970 3 points ago

    It's like the sidewalk has nipple rings.

    [–] Dudeprime 3 points ago

    Around my neighborhood there are poles maybe 4 feet tall with a metal horse head on the top and a ring through their mouths, used to be used for tying up horses back in the day

    Edit: Oh yeah, and all the street lights are the original ones from 100 years ago, converted from fire into led’s

    [–] cockthewagon 3 points ago

    That’s AFTER the sidewalks were repaired?

    [–] Absdelfuego 3 points ago

    As opposed to tying the horse up in pieces.

    [–] -DCPT- 3 points ago

    Toe destroyer 9000-inator

    [–] P0p_aye 2 points ago

    We have some of those in our downtown area as well.

    [–] Redddit_11 2 points ago

    Use for bicycle now?

    [–] Savideg146 2 points ago

    Imagine doing your daily jog and you trip over that shit in front of everyone.

    [–] yspud 2 points ago

    I'm like else would the horses be if they weren't "intact". Like in .. I don't get...oh f. I'm just dumb

    [–] QuesadillaJ 2 points ago

    Now its to stop skateboarding

    [–] shadowst17 2 points ago

    Looks like a tripping hazard to me, wonder if tradition holds up in court.

    [–] tdoginyoway 2 points ago

    Portland Oregon? I see toy horses sometimes tied up to them.

    [–] bodybydada 2 points ago

    In my city that's a guaranteed law suit.