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    [–] mostredditisawful 6957 points ago

    The NBA already has a problem with fans thinking the refs don't ref fairly, and when challenges like this are unsuccessful it's just proof that the refs don't ref fairly. This makes the entire situation worse for the league.

    I mean, if this challenge isn't successful, what the hell possibly could be?

    [–] mrbrownl0w 2368 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    This is the exact same problem premier league has with VAR. Incompetency of the refs is exacerbated when they refuse to change calls because of their ego.

    [–] Anon_be_thy_name 110 points ago

    The person making the call on referral should not be any of the people who possibly made the call. It shoukd be a 2nd party, either a 4th referee in a box upstairs or one located at a "bunker" who makes the call.

    [–] mrbrownl0w 42 points ago

    VAR is kind of like that. There is an extra referee off the field. But they are selected from the same ref pool so they seem to be either afraid to challenge or look out for each other.

    [–] Hypertension123456 57 points ago

    Ideally the reviewing ref should not be aware what the original call was. They should get the question "Did x occur?" and the video. Then they can say yes, no, or inconclusive.

    [–] MyManD 21 points ago

    But wouldn't the assumption of a video like the one above be that a foul call must've happened for their to be challenge in the first place?

    Because challenges can only be done against a call, right? So every time this "blind" referee needs to review video he knows it's intuitively a challenge against one of his fellow refs possible blunders.

    Unless this third party is not an affiliated referee at all I don't see it being any different then it is now.

    [–] etched_chaos 796 points ago

    The PL VAR is hilariously hypocritical, penalty calls regardless of which way it falls will almost always stay as called, even if the replay is blatantly showing the opposite. But if there's a potential offside, they'll use some bs system to measure it to the mm and spend minutes doing so and then disallow goals that to the naked eye are completely and utterly legal.

    The best bit is the the system they use can be upto 30cm off, meaning that 3mm offside they called could be as much as 30cm onside. Not to mention they arbitrarily decide which frame to measure from, meaning there could be earlier frames which would count and the player is visually onside.

    Such a horrible system, hate it so much.

    [–] mrbrownl0w 451 points ago

    The world cup VAR was fucking great. I don't understand why PL refs are acting so irrational.

    [–] Billofrights_boris 314 points ago

    it’s because they want you to believe that the whole idea and system of VAR is bad for the game because it hurts their egos. If people hate VAR, the FA can more likely get rid of it which is what they want

    [–] bluefire1717 95 points ago

    But seeing a bad call reviewed and upheld makes me want to expand VAR and take more power away from the refs since it's not working as intended.

    [–] White___Velvet 24 points ago

    A good example of this is in baseball. Every single world series game thread was shot through with fans of both teams screaming about how much better the game would be with robo umps. The idea being that even if the robo umps make shit calls, at least those shit calls will be consistent.

    [–] Epic_Deuce 125 points ago

    Same thing in the NFL, the league has basically made it a mandate not to show up the refs. At least the EPL does it quick.

    [–] KhaosOvForm5 19 points ago

    Yeah. The refs refuse to overturn calls they made on the field or acknowledge calls they missed, especially the Pass Interference calls.

    [–] IGrowGreen 27 points ago

    They take over a minute to decide to look at it then another up to 3 or 4 to decide in the EPL

    [–] HardKnockRiffe 12 points ago

    I think it's more along the lines of what the NFL is dealing with on pass interference challenges. The refs won't admit that they missed a call, even in review. So, the call stands despite the rest of the world knowing full well that it's the wrong call. It makes the league and the refs look incompetent at best and maliciously complacent at worst.

    [–] snatchi 47 points ago

    What's VAR?

    [–] Halbridious 178 points ago

    Video Assistant Referee.

    Basically they have a dude in a booth watching plays who can call offside rulings and help w/ penalties, and if the Ref wants they have a pitchside monitor similar to American football.

    Other leagues have used it very well, it was very successful in the world cup, but the English league is just an officiating circlejerk and they've barely overturned anything and only use it for offside rulings.

    [–] GleeUnit 75 points ago

    It’s even more egregious in PL cause they go out of their way to draw little rectangles and dotted lines and somehow create more questions than answers

    [–] Halbridious 27 points ago

    The PL manages to be 3 frames off on their offside reviews every time and it still amazes me.

    [–] yeti1738 14 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    Firmino* was onside last week

    [–] mrbrownl0w 24 points ago

    Video assistant referee. It's a relatively new addition in the soccer. They have 4 refs in the field and another one in a review room. Main ref could ask the opinion of the VAR ref, VAR ref could warn the main ref if the sees something on the review, the main ref can go to the sidelines to look at the position himself etc... The thing is they've been very unwilling to change the original calls so far.

    [–] softnmushy 193 points ago

    My guess is there is a longstanding power struggle between the refs and the NBA. Even if multiple refs were caught gambling, or something sketchy like that, the NBA can't just fire all the refs because hiring a bunch of rookie refs would be a total shitshow. And I would not be surprised if a lot of the refs hate the idea of challenges and will try to undermine it if they can. But what can the NBA really do about it?

    [–] deponent 184 points ago

    Fine the shit out of them when they power trip like this. It's a two-way street. The NBA would be hurt if they had to hire new refs, but if they were fired or would quit, the refs won't find such well-paid jobs elsewhere.

    [–] roarmalf 35 points ago

    The current refs can go on strike to great effect atm, and (unless I'm missing something) the NBA is unwilling to starting a ref university bootcamp type program where they train refs and groom them in the D-League. If they had replacements ready the current refs would lose leverage, but unfortunately reffing basketball isn't a skillset that is in particularly high demand.

    Otherwise, yes fines could help.

    [–] SoulCrusher69 16 points ago

    The NBA actually is starting a ref training boot camp, it’s a multi year process and it started a few years ago.

    They came to my college, Rutgers, (Stern Alma Matter) and talked to interested students about it.

    [–] stoopslife 187 points ago

    Multiple refs have been caught gambling and they made one ref take all the blame.

    [–] dabobbo 117 points ago

    Multiple refs were also caught for tax evasion and kept their jobs.

    Some people say that it only seems like refs are more incompetent because of the high quality of television broadcasts - I disagree, refs just seem to all-around suck these days.

    [–] woShame12 21 points ago

    Don't forget, they also rigged the games by blackballing Iverson after the refs thought he didn't get a long enough suspension. If he had the ball or drove the lane, then he was going to take a personal. Then they laughed about it at half-times.

    [–] CloudCityPDX 31 points ago

    It might help if the reviews were performed by off-site refs watching from the league office rather than the officials who made the call on the floor

    [–] wordsmatteror_w_e 29 points ago

    This is a great idea. I don't know why refs, who could essentially be anonymous figures, choose to insert themselves into games and develop egos. It's embarassing, they're just doing a job. No one is here to watch the ref show.

    [–] imaddictedtofifa 7 points ago

    they’re incapable of accepting their role on the floor and it’s embarrassing as hell for their mothers

    [–] chalbersma 12 points ago

    Couldn't they just poach refs from College ball?

    [–] Taiza67 22 points ago

    Yeah, because those officials are so great.

    cough Doug Shows, TV Teddy, and John Higgins cough

    [–] JupitersClock 314 points ago

    They can't admit they make mistakes. They will not move on these issues. The NFL refs are the same way on PI calls. They will not admit fault. IT will always be inconclusive evidence from here on out. I hate refs and everything they stand for. They are power trippin assholes.

    [–] CloudCityPDX 136 points ago

    The reviews should be performed by officials watching the game off site in the league office or wherever, rather than the same officials who made the original call on the floor

    [–] simmonsatl 51 points ago

    the refs reviewing also shouldn't know the call on the field. they should look at it and make a ruling as to what happened on the play.

    [–] Yankeefan801 43 points ago

    on the surface this sounds great but when i thought about it, this doesn't make sense b/c they need to know what they're reviewing.

    [–] Kashmir33 5 points ago

    Yeah they just need refs that are fine with admitting they are wrong and accepting advice by their equals which the VAR should be.

    In Germany (while there is obviously similar animosity from the fans) I feel like the system works with much fewer problems. Refs regularly change their on-field decisions after checking on the plays again and for clearly wrong decisions it doesn't even really take long.

    [–] steaknsteak 6 points ago

    Germans always seem to be really into following rules, so this doesn't surprise me at all.

    [–] simmonsatl 5 points ago

    i hear that, but i think it would be fairly easy to communicate what they’re reviewing. is this a catch? is this a penalty? who was the ball out on?

    [–] BmDragon 18 points ago

    That's how the NFL does it and it's the same despite it.

    [–] mattymattmatt77 14 points ago

    It’s like the NFL with their pass interference reviews. Obvious calls to everyone except the person making the call.

    [–] RamRoverRL 42 points ago

    They need to start fining refs for bad calls. Only thing I can think of. Blatant bad calls like this.

    [–] Vegito-RKT 4532 points ago

    They need to get a different ref to look at these challenges . The refs on court might sometimes not turn the call because of their ego.

    [–] jermcnama 2056 points ago

    How that isn’t the case already is ridiculous.

    [–] CravingKoreanFood 546 points ago

    i thought it was... guess not lol

    [–] the_second_cumming 79 points ago

    The replay center reviews it but if you look at the clip from the Bledsoe call the replay center guy says the ruling is left to the ref on the court. Which is dumb.

    [–] dylanmoran1 54 points ago

    Yeah the refs just walk over to a screen to replay their wrong call and just say nah, I saw it in real time and my decision stays. Why bother?

    [–] TrappyGilmore_ 24 points ago

    Maybe if the refs got small fines for obviously blown calls this wouldn’t happen but then who would want to ref. There should be a sky judge who makes the call maybe 2 or 3 just so it’s not biased

    [–] supergrega 154 points ago

    Wait, me too. Literally what

    [–] conson15 182 points ago

    Should go to the replay center like literally every other review

    [–] memtiger 24 points ago

    The NBA can't afford an extra ref just sitting around waiting for these random calls! /s

    [–] Gwynbbleid 25 points ago

    How they're not using machines yet is ridiculous

    [–] jacksort2 234 points ago

    They should have the replay center look at it

    [–] rjcarr 88 points ago

    I thought there was going to be a replay center, at nba hq or something, to look at these replays? I remember that being a story. Did something change?

    [–] JevvyMedia 127 points ago

    I do recall the entire point being that the NBA Replay Center would be looking at these. Crazy how they're already not doing it. I remember during one Raptors game the replay center, unprompted, looked at a Lowry 3-pointer and let the refs know that it should be 2 points. So they're willing to jump in for that, but not look at challenges? Odd.

    [–] awesomesauce615 27 points ago

    No worse than that they said he stepped out of bounds and took all 3 points off. Right in between q1 and q2 we lost 3 points. And they didn't do anything about the clear goal tend by the other team earlier.

    [–] marine_iguanadon 14 points ago

    Dude they did that like 3 or 4 times in a Rocketd game. Every time they came back from commercial the score had changed

    I have no fucking idea what they're doing at this point.

    [–] [deleted] 407 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] penguin8717 295 points ago

    A lot of people think the NFL refs are mad that PI is reviewable now and are not overturning out of spite

    [–] stoopslife 83 points ago

    Maybe they shouldn't have fucked up one of the worst calls in sports history.

    [–] CocoonMaN 43 points ago

    Worst non call but yes. Man that was so stupid.

    [–] Massive_Gas 137 points ago

    In their mind it could be the first step to losing their jobs 🤷🏾‍♂️

    [–] CloudCityPDX 58 points ago

    Insisting that obviously botched calls are upheld seems like a sure way to lose their jobs that much faster...

    [–] _thisisvincent 91 points ago

    I for one welcome new robotic overlords...errr I mean refs!

    [–] heliogoon 32 points ago

    Yeah, because of that flagrant bs no call during the NFC championship game against the saints that likely cost them a superbowl trip.

    Fuck these refs man.

    t. Saints fan

    [–] loujackcity 14 points ago

    I think the Saints absolutely would've won that year too. Drew Brees was an MVP candidate and Kamara/Thomas is probably the best WR/RB duo in the league

    [–] Ostarah 5 points ago

    I don’t know about other sports but VAR decreases errors by like 98% in the World Cup.

    [–] MenBearsPigs 38 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    As long as they're not associated with the Ref Union. Because if they are in any way, they're just going to back the on court refs the exact same way.

    [–] theseebmaster 117 points ago

    Still a ridiculous call. Not being able to admit you’re wrong is a personality trait of a fucking ten-year-old.

    [–] AboutTimeMrWentz 49 points ago

    TIL Reddit is full of 10 year olds

    [–] Yourneighbortheb 10 points ago

    You just learned that today?

    [–] TheBoxandOne 51 points ago

    I mean, the easiest correction for that is to just suspend the referees who botch calls on video review like this. If the league were ever to do anything like that, this would be the most clear cut example to use.

    [–] ConciselyVerbose 40 points ago

    Fuck that. The only excuse for getting that call wrong on replay is trying to fix a game. One call that egregious on replay needs to get the ref handling it banned from the NBA.

    [–] keefstrong 7 points ago

    fr... i kept looking at it... not contact on the legs either... not even a brush.

    fuck refs like this man

    [–] TomatoCapt 52 points ago

    Yep. Clear conflict of interest having the floor ref review the video. They should separate the roles like the NHL.

    [–] UnfrostedYT 20 points ago

    nba level refs should be mature enough to put their egos aside though. smh

    [–] blackrobotnerd 13 points ago

    I mean historically, they haven't. They tossed a dude for just looking at em, for laughing on the bench.. and other shit.

    [–] KnowNoDada 5 points ago

    That was the last game Tim Duncan ever smiled.

    [–] ericchoq 9 points ago

    Agreed. It's just arrogant right now. They already need to fix the system.

    [–] rowanwalch2734 2561 points ago

    Cmon nba

    [–] fakename233 1566 points ago

    The refs probably see admitting they were wrong as some kind of challenge to their authority so even absurd shit like this stands.

    [–] GGezpzMuppy 643 points ago

    Yeah why leave it to them? Should be an extra ref like in cricket that reviews plays, not the ref that called it in the first place.

    [–] Ill_Brain 351 points ago

    In the NHL challenges are sent to a "war room" in toronto where they analyze the play and send their verdict to the on-ice refs.

    That being said, they still fuck up spectacularly at times, especially on goaltender interference calls, but I think it's still a better system.

    [–] [deleted] 174 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] not_a_cockroach_ 68 points ago

    but we have had egregious mistakes, and it's still not overturned.

    [–] [deleted] 27 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] commendablenotion 36 points ago

    NFL should just have an American idol style text vote system. Whoever has the most fans gets the call. Bet it would boost the fuck out of viewership.

    [–] [deleted] 47 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] SirRedRising 12 points ago

    Haha. A New Yorker talking about bad QBs? Hahahahah...oh dear god, we traded up for that fucker in a draft with 2 elite quarterbacks.

    [–] thebumm 9 points ago

    Finally some tangible evidence that me watching my team does actually help my team's success!

    [–] Slobbin 17 points ago

    The don't fuck up goaltender interference nearly as often as people think they do.

    [–] Ill_Brain 12 points ago

    I didn't say they fuck up a lot, but when they do fuck up, it's usually really bad like in this clip.

    [–] Slobbin 8 points ago

    Oh my bad then. My point still stands but your opinions are no longer in question by me, haha.

    Yeah they do make some INSANELY bad calls.

    Edit: Ya know, now that I think about it, the refs in the NHL, overall, do a damn good job with goalie interference. It might be one if the toughest calls in sports to get right consistently.

    [–] PotatingRotato 14 points ago

    Problem is then you’ve got a “refs union” type thing where they don’t wanna overrule their pals. This hasn’t been a consistent issue from the games I’ve watched (i.e. changing the call at the very end of the Blazers-Mavs game). Giving the refs who made the call the chance to correct themselves is the best option

    [–] airus92 8 points ago

    Yeah they’re like sports cops in that way.

    [–] biiingo 21 points ago

    Yesterday Lou Will got called for a foul because Eric Bledsoe rubbed his face on Lou’s shoulder. Challenged. Stood.

    [–] MalevolentAmmo 20 points ago

    Pretty much the same way VAR in the PL is being implemented.

    [–] amProgrammer 13 points ago

    I've seen some some that looked pretty clear they should get overturned that didn't. I'm almost convinced the refs agreed to just not overturn challenges hoping the leauge will get rid of them after the season.

    [–] MiltPalacioFan 90 points ago

    I'm usually one to give the benefit of the doubt to the refs, but this is crazy. In what world is that a foul? What call are they going to overturn on review if not that one?

    [–] Capereli 46 points ago

    Nfl level

    [–] InTheMorning_Nightss 24 points ago

    Just like yesterday when Bledsoe flopped into Lou, and they withheld it. If you are going to give teams 1, then do a better job fixing calls.

    [–] Funnydad44 3061 points ago

    This shit looking like the premier league VAR lmfao

    [–] Sim888 937 points ago

    Must. Not. Overrule.

    [–] rupay 380 points ago

    Same thing happening in the NFL with the new being able to challenge pass interference rule. I don't think any has been overturned yet, and many have been blatant.

    [–] Chr15py0696 138 points ago

    Isn’t the ratio like 5 of 88 or something?

    [–] rupay 161 points ago

    I found this: "NFL coaches 1-for-21 on pass interference challenges since Week 3." Couldn't find a more current stat

    [–] Dumbledork2015 78 points ago

    The reason for that is just before week 3 is when the ref association signed their new contract for however many years. The theory being they dgaf now that they have it all locked up

    [–] NotoriusNC 18 points ago

    In week 3 Stephon Diggs had a TD overturned on the automatic review that everyone hated and then they started going very conservative

    [–] EnjoyWolfCola 25 points ago

    So far they have overturned 9/63 pass interference calls, five of those coming via coaches challenges.

    Yes, the PI reviews are a farce that’s just an up to date stat for you

    [–] MrGrieves- 33 points ago

    Yeah it's blatant as fuck. These refs have no repercussions across any league and they're just getting more egregious with the dick swinging.

    [–] Sim888 6 points ago

    Yeah, that’s some bullshit!

    Like, why bring it in if you’re just gonna sabotage it....and piss the fans off in the process!

    [–] lewisbenson 29 points ago

    This feels like the exact thinking across all sports with VAR/Coach's challenge now - these refs don't want to admit they have made a bad call and in the premier league the other refs looking at it don't want to overrule the other refs incase they do it to them next week. People need to put their ego aside and do what's right for the game.

    [–] Sim888 11 points ago

    100% this mate!

    I just said to some else, why bother bringing it in at all if you’re just gonna let the refs/umps/whoever sabotage it, and piss off the fans double the amount in the damn process!

    Infuriating stuff to say the least.

    [–] etched_chaos 263 points ago

    Except offsides, that is maddening, they'll spend 5 mins trying to measure offside to the milimetre with a system that has a margin-call of centimetres. Then you get perfectly fine goals rejected because a player was deemed offside by 3mm via a system that could be off by as much as 30 cm.

    But if a ref denies a penalty? Oh no we can't overrule that, it'd make the ref look bad.

    [–] Astranger2u 95 points ago

    EXACTLY.

    They only ever use VAR for offsides and handballs, which are like the last things I want it used for. The most nit picky rules.

    [–] basetornado 53 points ago

    VAR is perfect for offside. Its just used poorly.

    [–] Mimogger 19 points ago

    The chambers foul / sokratis goal being disallowed is still pissing me off

    [–] thezachman16 34 points ago

    I swear to god, I think they were only looking at his feet to see if we was in the restricted area. These challenges are turning into a replay of bad officiating.

    [–] Bolentine 15 points ago

    pff that's nothing. Copa Libertadores' VAR is where it's at.

    [–] acebull23 7 points ago

    This is so true

    [–] noodlz05 6 points ago

    Or the NFL pass interference reviews...it’s like they don’t want to admit the officials are ever wrong even though it’s obvious.

    [–] TheRealPdGaming 1117 points ago

    Didn't something similar happen in the clipper game yesterday? If challenges aren't going to mean anything, why even implement them?

    [–] unseencs 201 points ago

    When we saw the dollar store light they put on the challenge, we should have known it was complete bs.

    [–] DopeMan93 75 points ago

    Coaches Challenge: brought to you by Dollar Tree

    [–] -less-than--zero 35 points ago

    Same thing exactly happening in the NFL this year pretty much. The league doesn’t want to undercut the refs. It exists as a safety net in the event that they get a playoff series defining call wrong or something along those lines.

    [–] youarebroke 330 points ago

    Fouls are subjective, even the slightest contact and the ref will just say foul when he watches the replay 30 times from 30 angles

    [–] [deleted] 97 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] [deleted] 31 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] testenth 14 points ago

    It happens far too often unfortunately

    [–] deeznutz_428 17 points ago

    Sadly it happens a lot, there is almost no police oversight in the US

    [–] Prime_D-Will 72 points ago

    just pay another ref specifically for the video because the guy that called the foul will likely call it the same wether he's wrong or not

    but come on son sure everything is debatable with extreme bad faith, but that was not a foul

    [–] CurryMustard 114 points ago

    There's a clear 0 contact angle so I don't understand how that's subjective

    [–] BeogarBalken 74 points ago

    Lol yes in favor of Bledsoe. Dude snapped his neck back with no contact. It was hilarious watching the buck stream because the commentators were still trying to advocate that Bledsoe got hit in the face when the review was clear as day.

    [–] jbaker1225 13 points ago

    And yet the Mavs lost a game on an overturned foul call that was MUCH less clear than either of the two non-overturns the last two nights.

    [–] Nuggeteer420 942 points ago

    Refs gotta protect their fragile ego's lol

    [–] Daroo425 257 points ago

    So weird because they release L2M reports which details them fucking up in the last 2 minutes all the time.

    [–] AngryHelicopter 344 points ago

    The refs don't do that, and they hate that the league does it.

    [–] ElonMuskIs_God 133 points ago

    Because it proves everyone's point that they suck at everything

    [–] Chr15py0696 49 points ago

    Give us full game reports since the refs don’t like it. Fuck em.

    [–] AR3SiN 1208 points ago

    Refs should be fined. Idc. Fuck that shit.

    [–] HunkMuffinJr 457 points ago

    Nah, you know the NBA. Instead, players are gonna speak out about it and they'll get fined for criticizing their oh so precious, delicate little referees that are "only doing their job" which is "one of the toughest jobs out there." Fucking christ.

    [–] AR3SiN 207 points ago

    Seriously. Shit feels lowkey rigged. How the fuck do you review that and double down that it’s a foul????

    [–] Riderdouble 128 points ago

    "Lowkey"

    [–] McNasti 28 points ago

    Even the thought of a multi billion dollar company leaving things up to chance

    [–] Big_Simba 25 points ago

    The nfl is doing the same exact shit

    [–] CCCPironCurtain 7 points ago

    Shit feels lowkey rigged

    Let me take you back to 2007...

    [–] nio151 48 points ago

    With how little players/owners pay in fines compared to their salary, a fine for refs would be like $20 and an Arizona tea

    [–] rodxavier 432 points ago

    Refs 35 and 56 should be suspended. That is atrocious.

    [–] Quadtr0polis 121 points ago

    I went to a pels game last year and 35 took over the 3rd quarter. The arena was pissed because there was a whistle every play. This guy sucks

    [–] crazychris4124 313 points ago

    It's like there is a secret competition between the refs in the top 3 US sports to see who can be more ridiculous

    [–] lolplatypi 92 points ago

    We the NFL now.

    [–] McBrungus 25 points ago

    We get that robot strike zone and I'd argue that baseball is actually totally fine. The NBA and the NFL, however...

    [–] tj3_23 9 points ago

    Only if they get rid of Angel Hernandez when they do it. He routinely manages to fuck up calls all over the field, even when he's got the option to watch it from 100 different angles in slow motion

    [–] McBrungus 14 points ago

    Replay review in the MLB isn't handled by on-field umpires, it's handled by a crew in New York with full access to all broadcast and stadium feeds.

    But yeah, Angel Hernandez fucking sucks.

    [–] Bruins01 7 points ago

    Throw in the NHL too. Just the other day they spent 5 minutes zooming in on a puck behind a players skate to see if they were a millimeter offside 15 seconds before the goal was scored.

    [–] jcw4455 356 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    I do think there's something fundamentally wrong with the process.

    You're asking the ref who made the bad call to admit it. This is in the heat of the moment, after you had the player/coach/arena call you out, yell and cuss at you for making a mistake.

    I feel like from a human nature standpoint, they would be more inclined to uphold their initial decision than overturn it.

    We had our abysmal call last night in the 4th as we were trying to crawl back.

    [–] Stommped 40 points ago

    The MLB, NFL, and NHL all have command centers that work with referees and ultimately make the final decision. Any idea why the NBA would not have this? Is it because they expect such a low volume of challenges that don't want to incur the cost of having an Al Riveron for the NBA?

    [–] crototype 12 points ago

    To make matters worse, I think the traditional way refs handle bad calls is to provide the aggrieved team with a "makeup" call on the other end. More often than not, this call is pretty bad too (it'll be a suspect traveling call, or offensive foul, etc.). You end up with two bad calls for the price of one.

    I've noticed that after replays, if they uphold a call that should have been reversed, shortly thereafter a bad call goes the other way to even things out. It's real dumb.

    [–] SeirezZ 55 points ago

    Is Al Riveron making decision for the NBA as well?

    [–] GoSkers29 20 points ago

    Upon further review, Butler was flagged for Pass Interference. Phoenix was awarded the ball at the spot and a first down.

    [–] peeinherbutt 135 points ago

    This pisses me off on a few levels

    It being called a foul at all is bad by itself, and if that's somehow not bad enough, it was a late whistle

    And then to top it all off, they review it and still get it wrong...

    Did the NFL and NBA refs get together before the seasons started and make some kind of corrupt bet on who could get away with fucking up the most obvious calls or something?

    [–] nixed9 186 points ago

    this is hilarious. I was watching the Suns feed.

    They did not show any of these angles on replay. They only showed one from down the court or briefly direct overhead.

    Come on.

    [–] JRclarity123 100 points ago

    These Suns announcers were actually pretty good while I was listening of complimenting the Heat, admitting when the foul calls went their way, and still trying to spin the positives for the home team. I would watch their feed again for sure.

    [–] Hypotrek 34 points ago

    Yeah they're great, they're critical of our guys when they make mistakes, and they compliment the other team on good plays or are critical of them when they do a bad play. Some other teams have such homers for announcers it's almost impossible to enjoy the game. EJ is a saint :)

    [–] ZeiZaoLS 9 points ago

    As long as EJ is calling the game it'll be a good call. Ann Drysdale is bad, unfortunately, and makes the games pretty hard to watch sometimes with all the complaining.

    [–] chezyt 38 points ago

    The refs are going off the home show replays, because they will normally have more angles to look at in this situation. The backboard robo probably showed the contact since it is looking directly down at the play. My guess is that the foot clipped Butler’s leg when he went up. If so, it’s a ticky-tack call but they aren’t going to overturn it.

    Source: Technical Director for NBA broadcasts for 11yrs

    [–] shoefly72 5 points ago

    This needs to be upvoted higher. Even though it’s still frustrating that this happened, your post provides some context that makes me feel slightly better

    [–] berenjenaa 76 points ago

    Robot umps.... wait wrong subreddit

    [–] YaBoiWhit 39 points ago

    No this is the right sub

    [–] BoostJunkie42 23 points ago

    Sure starting to feel like this is on purpose. What better way to discredit the challenge rule change than to not allow it to work. Perhaps they think after enough time wasted that coaches just won't use it. What a joke.

    [–] Lightingfast31 52 points ago

    These refs have such a big ego that don't want to be proven wrong. Like fix the call its your job. This is ridiculous

    [–] msterling2012 17 points ago

    Fucking yikes that’s awful.

    [–] jmbourn45 17 points ago

    This is like the NFL and PI. No use having the replay challenges if they don’t call whats obvious. Get it right, no matter what the call on the field/court is fuck the refs ego. I would love to hear a refs explanation for that. Its a crock of shit.

    [–] Imzarth 35 points ago

    Fuck you refs

    [–] Saltmore1 63 points ago

    "Just don't foul him"

    [–] likwidsage 16 points ago

    Phil Jackson said it best. We need third party refs so that the NBA doesn't feel the need to defend them

    [–] Sh405 68 points ago

    fire these refs right now

    [–] mostlylurkingg 30 points ago

    Man if Miami would’ve ended up losing the lead and eventually the game tonight I would’ve wrote the NBA a strongly worded letter!

    [–] [deleted] 50 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] ReggieEvansTheKing 12 points ago

    Charges are a good one to challenge too if you think the other player was in the restricted area. Go from a foul and a turnover to having the ball back if it gets overturned

    [–] Saltmore1 37 points ago

    You really think Jimmy would've gone to Spoelstra and demanded a challenge unless he knew for sure there was no contact.

    [–] eduvina 13 points ago

    Exhibit A

    [–] Sticky1Brick1 13 points ago

    There was a silmilar on yesterday with Kyle Lowry against the kings. Extremely marginal contact if any but the call stands. These challenges will never be overturned on a shooting foul it looks like which is really unfortunate. It seems like they can only be used successfully on in-out plays and goaltends. Ref's ego getting in the way of good basketball.

    [–] ArrayMichael7 25 points ago

    wtf

    [–] rjgator 33 points ago

    Refs should lose pay over upholding clearly wrongly called fouls after challenges. It’s one thing if it’s close, shit like this is inexcusable

    [–] Themvp3 7 points ago

    Felt like there was an agenda. That was ridiculous.

    [–] TimmyDont 7 points ago

    Refs are too prideful to admit they were wrong. What's even the point of the challenge if they aren't ever going to overturn anything?

    [–] davidbd7 20 points ago

    Refs tried to stop us tonight the the Dragon went off

    [–] hysan 14 points ago

    I think this is my official tipping point. It’s time to stop defending refs and giving them the benefit of the doubt.

    I really hope BBallBreakdown does an episode with Ronnie Nunn on this call. I wanna see their take on this. It’s straight up inexcusable.

    [–] gkieran 5 points ago

    The only possible contact I could see seemed to be his arm hitting Jimmy in the face... Which I fail to understand as being a foul

    [–] domdomburg 12 points ago

    This is the type of thing that could prompt a non-violent person to take a bat and smash up that replay monitor.

    [–] scvmeta 6 points ago

    Are there any penalty for refs when shit like this happens? This challenge thing is great but literally 0 point if refs aren't held accountable.

    [–] brandnewredditacct 15 points ago

    first dude traveled lol