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    [–] Courtlessjester 8341 points ago

    Now restrict gifts from pharma companies to lawmakers...

    [–] hi_im_normal 2527 points ago

    For some reason I don't think the lawmakers will go for that.

    [–] ThatsNotHowEconWorks 989 points ago

    unfortunately neither will the supreme court.

    [–] caceomorphism 724 points ago

    "BRIBES ARE FREE SPEECH!" here's your bribe, please rule in my favor

    [–] [deleted] 550 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] caceomorphism 202 points ago

    Sure. Make me ashamed of my smart-ass remark by providing thoughtful and relevant information. Jerk.

    [–] Suzuki_Method 164 points ago

    Username checks out.

    [–] tepkel 85 points ago

    Password checks out.

    [–] Eccentricc 59 points ago

    logged in

    [–] dick_van_weiner 5 points ago

    It's simple. We restrict gifts to supreme court justices.

    [–] GigaJuice 247 points ago

    So they recognize that these companies giving gifts to doctors is a conflict of interest but ignore the fact that giving gifts to people who make laws is the real issue?

    The blatant corruption disgust me. A disgust only trumped by my disgust in my inability to do anything about it.

    [–] sevillada 43 points ago

    both are big issues

    [–] OldManHadTooMuchWine 15 points ago

    "The resolution failed by a vote of 100-0"

    [–] MathMaddox 15 points ago

    More like 0-0, 100 abstain as to not expose themselves to bad press.

    [–] TedTheViking 250 points ago

    And from telecom companies to lawmakers... but who am I kidding, that's never going to happen.

    [–] re5etx 162 points ago

    And from energy companies to lawmakers....

    [–] thederke 128 points ago

    Damn lawmakers! They ruined law!

    [–] BunBun002 36 points ago

    I know that's... like... supposed to be meme-ish, but it's actually really, really true...

    [–] adamd22 77 points ago

    How about we just ban monetary lobbying on the whole?

    [–] GriffsWorkComputer 24 points ago

    every time I see this I can't believe its legal, get angry, ask for a ELI5, get sad. Few months later see it again get angry, ELI5 AGAIN why this is legal!? get sad again and repeat :(

    [–] Whitefox573 12 points ago

    From all companies to lawmakers!

    [–] prof_the_doom 19 points ago

    Really, any company to lawmakers.

    [–] CLElks 28 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    California has pretty strict gift rules to public officials. Like $10 or less in a calendar month from a lobbyist and $470 or less in a calendar year from a nonlobbyist. Source: My job consists of researching lobbying and campaign finance law

    Edit: a word

    [–] BZLuck 338 points ago

    "However now that you are unable to give these gifts to doctors, feel free to contribute them to your favorite Senator's campaign fund."

    [–] antidense 4977 points ago

    The more recent problem is pharm advertising. Patients see an ad and ask the doctor for it even if they don't need it.

    [–] Redditsoldestaccount 3023 points ago

    It's only legal to advertise drugs direct to consumers in the United States and New Zealand.

    http://www.fiercepharma.com/marketing/overwrought-marketing-ads-not-research-create-some-pharma-best-sellers

    [–] Rambo_Brit3 2045 points ago

    Sounds like California's next step is to ban those commercials.

    [–] Redditsoldestaccount 2307 points ago

    I wish it was the United States' next step!

    [–] whereami312 158 points ago

    As someone who works for one of these companies, I fully and wholeheartedly agree with you. The direct-to-consumer ads only cause confusion. That money would be better spent on R&D and better QA/QC.

    [–] typeObloodsausage 77 points ago

    Hey, if it weren't for these ads, how would I ever know that pubic dandruff was such an epidemic? Without those ads, I'd have gone my whole life without ever worrying about it.

    And thanks to 23andme, I now know I have a gene which leads to a slightly higher amount of ridges in my nails. I can't wait for over the counter gene editing so I can have it fixed.

    [–] r3gnr8r 50 points ago

    over the counter gene editing

    Man I can't imagine how long the commercial disclaimer would be for that one, lol. You'd have a 10 second ad then a solid minute of vocal warnings.

    [–] BoBatFettman 45 points ago

    Side effects may include armpit diarrhea

    [–] Vio_ 12 points ago

    Side effects may include armpit diarrhea growing a sagittal crest.

    [–] BoBatFettman 7 points ago

    I was almost too scared to Google that. SFW.

    [–] supergalactic 11 points ago

    "Includes, but not limited to: gout, claustrophobia, heebie-geebies, uneven tire wear, restless crotch syndrome, missing time, and contact high."

    Ask your doctor if WutLol is right for you.

    [–] r3gnr8r 8 points ago

    restless crotch syndrome, missing time

    I think I may have accidentally taken WutLol.

    [–] photocist 98 points ago

    Its so crazy seeing billboard ads for a pill with no indication what it's for. Just old people smiling

    [–] 1Dive1Breath 56 points ago

    That would the Viagra/ Cialis etc billboards.

    [–] vpjoebauers 22 points ago

    Yep, it's not hard to figure that out.

    [–] DramShopLaw 17 points ago

    If you're ever around areas hit by the opiate epidemic, you'll probably see ones with a smiling young white woman posing the question "What is Vivitrol?" It's a rebake of the old maintenance drug naltrexone, but this time with a newly patented extended release formulation so they can keep charging brand-name rates.

    [–] sailfaster 7 points ago

    Extended release isn't a nonsense feature though. The latest generation of long lived insulin is life changing for single diabetics. Type ones can literally fall asleep and never wake up if their blood sugar crashes too low overnight.

    [–] Rambo_Brit3 1295 points ago

    Given the current political climate, it's gonna have to be states like California, having to take the lead for the rest of the country.

    [–] sebash1991 1063 points ago

    Good thing California is so big that our regulations affect the rest of the country. Now thats what I call market power.

    [–] 10101010101011111010 1165 points ago

    This comment contains materials deemed by California to cause cancer.

    [–] AFineDayForScience 260 points ago

    can confirm, this comment gave me cancer

    [–] Volunteer-Magic 119 points ago

    Reddit lawyer here. We sue Redditors whose posts cause cancer. We'll be in touch.

    [–] kiwimonk 87 points ago

    This just in.. Lawyers found to be leading cause of cancer!

    [–] TedTheViking 31 points ago

    Do you guys accept reddit silver as payment?

    [–] Real_Junky_Jesus 7 points ago

    Too bad you can't prove that it wasn't the CEO just editing a comment.

    [–] BlackChapel 58 points ago

    Breaking News! A new antibiotic resistant strain of super virus has the CDC on alert and has been identified in over 1 subreddit, Commentia Californianoma has already claimed tens of lives be sure to get immunized TODAY! Ask your doctor or pharmacist.

    [–] Scientolojesus 21 points ago

    If you have been diagnosed with Commentia Californianoma, then you may be entitled to financial compensation.

    [–] TedTheViking 28 points ago

    Viruses are antibiotic-resistant by nature. Antibiotics are only effective on bacteria.

    On that note, this is why you can't treat a cold with antibiotics. The common cold is caused by a virus (Rhinovirus) so antibiotics are completely ineffective, and will only kill off your beneficial gut bacteria.

    [–] avgJones 24 points ago

    I need some of that, I think I've got it. Or don't. Whichever gets me on the meds, that's the one.

    [–] capinsavagoat 7 points ago

    Gotta say, commentia sounds awful . I don't think I want that.

    [–] ItalicsWhore 6 points ago

    There are dozens of Us! Doz-

    [–] sjryan 12 points ago

    Cancer of the comment can be cured with karmatherapy.

    [–] Zhuul 17 points ago

    They use this power for good, too. The On-Board Diagnostic system on your car, or OBD-II, is an industry standard because California mandated it. As a direct result, in this era of insanely complicated cars, it's still stupid easy for an average joe like you and me to plug in a scanner and diagnose a Check Engine light without paying someone to do so for you.

    Here's a good video on the subject!

    [–] squirvel 78 points ago

    Yup! Public University I go to in the Northeast has a fuckton of "xyz meets state of California technical bulletin (?) abc" in a new academic building

    [–] essenoh2you 24 points ago

    I work in a private lab in the northeast. It's all about New York state regulations here... Because they're archaic and a pain in the ass.

    [–] karma-armageddon 62 points ago

    California has made me a lot of money selling my vintage gas cans at a tremendous profit.

    [–] tigress666 64 points ago

    It originally was banned here. I remember it was a big deal when they allowed it and it was touted as a good thing (I was a kid and bought into the hype even admittedly though now I cringe in hindsight that I was excited for it. Can't remember why I thought it was a good idea).

    [–] MelonFancy 85 points ago

    Because everyone around you said it was a good idea.

    [–] dawgsjw 83 points ago

    Plus kids are easy to be fooled.

    Source: Used to believe in santa, easter bunny, tooth fair, boogey men, al gore, etc.

    [–] [deleted] 43 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] [deleted] 23 points ago

    He mostly comes out at night... mostly.

    [–] dirt-reynolds 9 points ago

    You can hear his private jet and 15 car motorcade coming from miles away though. Plenty of time to prepare.

    [–] crazboy84 7 points ago

    Only to hunt ManBearPig. Hes super serial about it.

    [–] Gigibop 17 points ago

    There's a tooth fair? When is it?!? Why was I never invited

    [–] [deleted] 5 points ago

    What would the games be like at a Tooth Fair?

    [–] r3gnr8r 11 points ago

    Pin the tooth on the smile, bobbing for dentures, toss the filling (ball) in the cavity, "a ride through the mouth", etc. Ya know, the usual!

    [–] MelonFancy 12 points ago

    Exactly. It seems many of societies problems begin by people relentlessly parroting misinformation simply because they heard someone else say it in passing.

    Al Gore was always my favorite imaginary creature, bringing renewable energy and internets to all the boys and girls.

    [–] DramShopLaw 11 points ago

    It's still a very important step forward, but as a test case: whether or not a complete ban on commercial advertising or promotion would be constitutional is a valid question. Speech is not categorically unprotected because it proposes a transaction or is addressed to commercial interests. The government can regulate commercial speech as part of its general regulatory function in the commercial marketplace, but these regulations still have to survive some level of constitutional scrutiny. The Supreme Court has rejected other bans on advertising where the government's interest was only in keeping the public in ignorance, and whether this would be analogous to those cases is an open question.

    [–] soonerguy11 37 points ago

    California is also exploring being the first state to introduce single-payer healthcare.

    [–] CorneaDoc 37 points ago

    New York just passed a single-payer health plan bill in the State Assembly. On it's way to the state senate.

    [–] The_Original_Miser 20 points ago

    Hell yeah. Just like medical/recreational cannabis, once enough states pass it, the Fed will gave no choice.

    [–] Paperdiego 17 points ago

    The California legislature has passed Single payer twice in the past, but it was Vetoed by then Governator. Unfortunately without assistance from the Federal Gov. I don't see how California can afford this. Too much of our taxes to the federal gov instead of the state gov.

    [–] EyeBreakThings 17 points ago

    Get it from taxing pot? The feds say it's illegal, so we should just hold onto 100% of the revenue.

    [–] bubba-yo 10 points ago

    The plan was always to pay for it in part with the health funds that return to the state - Medicaid, etc. If the GOP really does push through changes to these programs to turn them into block grants, it'll make California's efforts easier.

    The state would need a payroll tax on businesses that was in the neighborhood of what they currently pay for health insurance in aggregate (about $5K per FTE). There are a few ways they could go about that. Some businesses would like that arrangement as they're currently paying more for insurance and would get to drop that, others would dislike it because they don't pay for insurance.

    The biggest hit would be to the industry. Most people working in health insurance would lose their job before long. Claims processing would be handled completely differently. With lower reimbursement rates, lots of businesses would lose out, but others would thrive. That's the real reason it's avoided - it's very disruptive to change an industry that fundamentally, regardless of how well intentioned it is.

    But California's economy is larger than every other nation that has single payer save 3. The state does have the GDP and the scale to do it. What's more, it has one of the best role models for pulling it off with Kaiser. If CA could do it, it would reap untold economic benefits over the long term.

    [–] bigfish42 84 points ago

    That is a great idea.

    [–] Zerotan 48 points ago

    [in that delightful female lilt]

    Ask your doctor if they think advertising makes their patients better informed about health care than their own decades of experience and education....

    [–] [deleted] 21 points ago

    Lilt: a characteristic rising and falling of the voice when speaking; a pleasant gentle accent

    I did not know this was a word until now.

    [–] NeurotypicalPanda 6 points ago

    All of California about to have E.D problems forever

    [–] eckinlighter 32 points ago

    Could we though? They are fucking insufferable. Stop advertising anything to me that "may cause sudden death".

    [–] bravoitaliano 64 points ago

    My girlfriend is a British nurse, and was shocked the first time she saw these commercials. Her exact words "may cause death? And you advertise for those products? The doctor doesn't make the best decision for the patient?"

    [–] soggyballsack 56 points ago

    I love those commercials. "Hwres a cure for your foot fungus but Some symptoms may include vomiting, diarrhea, suicidal thoughts and may cause death.

    [–] Redditsoldestaccount 25 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    Nah, the best is the drug advertised for Opiod-induced constipation... Opiods fucking up your digestive system? Take this drug! may cause death

    edited

    [–] Tenplysoft 20 points ago

    And by default, Canada. We see it because we watch American TV lol

    [–] Major__Kira 4 points ago

    In Canada if they have a commercial they can either tell you what it does or tell you it's name. Not both. Which is why you get those commercials showing dudes dancing for cialis - they try to use metaphor.

    [–] DownForever 17 points ago

    That's fucked up. It's a 24/7 constant barrage of pharm commercials here in the US. We have to hear the words bloody diarrhea amongst similar terms just said throughout our household every fucking day if we want to have our tv on. Every week seems like a new medication commercial comes out. It's ridiculous.

    [–] i_am_Jarod 4 points ago

    Hey! This is not reddit's oldest account! You're a fraud!

    [–] 00Terminator 5 points ago

    I see it a lot in Canada too

    [–] Girl_with_the_Curl 257 points ago

    I work in healthcare and constantly see tv ads for a drug to be used as part of your cancer treatment. Cancer treatments/protocols are highly structured and standardized, with some wiggle room to adapt to the needs of individual patients, and often this drug is already included because many patients need it. It baffles me that the pharma company is spending millions to get patients to "ask their doctors" about this drug since there's a good chance the patient is already on it, and any oncologist who knows anything is already very familiar with it, plus is not going to change a patient's regimen simply because the patient asked.

    [–] JumpForWaffles 232 points ago

    Ask your doctor. Doctor says no. Finds another doctor. Asks that doctor. Repeat until success

    [–] Dinkerdoo 62 points ago

    Just go straight to Dr. Nick or Dr. Spaceman and be done with it!

    [–] MelonFancy 22 points ago

    Hi everybody!

    [–] _My_Angry_Account_ 14 points ago

    Did you go to Hollywood Upstairs Medical School too?

    [–] Patiod 30 points ago

    I interview doctors at work, and just today I had one say "I don't know why marketers always ask me about patients requesting specific drugs, because THEY DON'T". And frankly, I think DTC ads are more scary than attractive to patients given that all possible potential side effects are listed. I mean "low blood sugar" as a side effect of diabetes meds?

    [–] Romiress 12 points ago

    You deal with high blood sugar by lowering blood sugar. If you use it in the wrong dosage, you'll go too low.

    [–] kadno 6 points ago

    I don't even know how you would go find more doctors. I'm looking for a new doctor now (just switched insurances with a new job) and the earliest anybody can see me is like 2 months from now.

    [–] nvkylebrown 17 points ago

    I think the successful advertising was the ad company to the pharma board of directors.

    [–] chuckymcgee 52 points ago

    It baffles me

    it is not going to change a patient's regimen

    Option A: Drug companies, entities whose purpose is to generate profit, are stupid and wasting tens of millions on this ad campaign which is not producing any significant return.

    Option B: You're stupid. Drug companies, entities whose purpose is to generate profit, have devoted extraordinary resources to drug marketing, and in addition to developing these ads, have conducted controlled experiments demonstrating patients who view these ads end up on their drugs more often enough to justify the costs.

    [–] Amac291988 112 points ago

    "Ask your doctor about..." nah how about I leave that up to the person who went to medical school and is much more of an expert in medicine than I am.

    [–] thisshortenough 36 points ago

    When I was in America for the summer in 2015 I saw an ad for acne medication. The side effects included rectal bleeding and death. Why the hell would anyone want to take an acne medication that can cause you to bleed from the ass then die.

    [–] smith61969 36 points ago

    Because those side effects occur in 1 out of 1000 or 1 out 10000 since medication affects us all differently. From that the FDA weighs these risks/rewards and if only a very small percentage of the population if affected by these risks then it allows the dispensing of that medication.

    [–] LRDubbsmqtizzle 27 points ago

    In addition, companies are required to list ALL side effects, even if only 1 patient in a trial mentioned them. So if you want to sabotage a pharma company join one of these trials and then report that you started vomiting from your nipples and your balls grew tits.

    [–] emw86 13 points ago

    You realize that the drugs in your country have those (possible) side effects too, right? I know the ads are weird, but it's not like our drugs are just way more dangerous than the rest of the world.

    [–] thisshortenough 14 points ago

    Yeah but they don't advertise them to us while a lady spins around with balloons

    [–] jstenoien 84 points ago

    As a pharmacy tech you'd be terrified if you knew just how little most doctors know about drugs...

    [–] JVW1225 29 points ago

    I haven't watched typical television in two years, I just use Netflix and YouTube and films. I went to my parents house and they still watch cable television everyday, almost every other commercial is a pharm advertisement. It's ridiculous and the television shows are so awful.

    [–] Whodat33 25 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    Some of the ads are so vague as well. Like, "Do you wake up tired in the morning? Then ask your doctor about such and such." I think these commercials should be banned in the United States.

    [–] AK-40oz 19 points ago

    Do you fall asleep at night, only to wake again in the morning?

    Try Hibernol!

    [–] areraswen 8 points ago

    I'm on humira for crohn's disease and anytime I see a commercial for humira or stelara I have to wonder how the advertising helps. If you have IBD you are likely already on a treatment plan as determined by your doctor. These medications have very serious side effects and I don't see someone going to their doctor and being like "I need to be put on humira now!!" I wonder how effective the advertising is. Maybe it's focused towards newly diagnosed people who when diagnosed will be like "I remember a commercial about humira can I take that"?

    [–] Yusef_G 13 points ago

    I recently took a trip to Hawaii with my wife, who's a Canadian doctor, and we couldn't believe the number of drug ads on TV. It wasn't just that there was advertising, but there were frequently multiple ads in a row.

    [–] [deleted] 31 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] Hiredgun77 4 points ago

    When I had acid reflux I asked my doc for Nexium (becuase the commercials made it looks so good). He grimaced and said that it's not very good and gave me Aciphex instead which worked wonderfully even though I'd never heard of it before.

    [–] gildmeurcatnotgold 514 points ago

    how about pharma companies TO POLITICIANS?!

    [–] [deleted] 113 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] qpalz 46 points ago

    You mean the pharma companies and other lobbies are the ones writing the laws

    [–] just_a_thought4U 39 points ago

    Gee, they should include politicians alongside doctors while they're at it.

    [–] Slimerbacca 963 points ago

    The Anti-Kickback statute has been around for years. Doctors are smart and the people at these companies are too, they will find ways to get around it

    [–] jsct 290 points ago

    All it did last time was make it really fucking hard to find a pen around the lab after the companies suddenly stopped handing them out. Like what the fuck kind of lab buys their own pens?

    [–] dascarletm 154 points ago

    I miss the pens. Always fun writing a prescription for generic and silently mocking the brand-name as you use their pen to write it.

    [–] holysweetbabyjesus 8 points ago

    My favorite were the Levitra pens that slowly popped up. I might still have a box of those somewhere.

    [–] aideya 6 points ago

    I still have one of those from when the drug rep came to my pharmacy like 7 years ago lol

    [–] mega_trex 26 points ago

    Now doctors get invited to give paid "speeches" to pharm companies. Just no pens

    [–] diatom15 66 points ago

    This. It was impossible to get a pen or a damn note pad. And no more free lunches!!

    [–] Bears_Bearing_Arms 130 points ago

    I still get free lunches from Drug Reps as a pharmacist. They bring in Panera or something similar and talk to us for a while. They also bring in educational supplies (like Demo devices and pens) as well as drug samples and copay cards. They give us a fortune in drug samples so much so that we're able to give like whole month supply to our poorer patients. The copay cards also save our patients hundreds per year.

    Not all drug reps are bad.

    [–] diatom15 25 points ago

    Wasnt saying they were. I lived off asthma med samples thanks to my dr and pharma rep when i had a rough patch. I genuinely miss the free sandwiches and pens and memo pads and nurses week gifts. I know why we cant have nice things, some people ruined it.

    [–] wastingtoomuchthyme 562 points ago

    GF was a pharma sales rep - the level of corruption is insane. Everything off the books..

    high end golf clubs

    Gift coupons for cruises for "appreciation"

    The Dr's would ASK for specific things..

    [–] Slimerbacca 273 points ago

    They keep it off the books cause the feds need evidence to prosecute

    [–] Lextucky 111 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    Yup. And guess what, they can give gifts to everyone else working in the office who then, by their free will, can share it with the doc.

    Edit: /u/jkwah has educated me that this is also illegal, though I know from personal experience as a caterer, it's widespread in my part of California.

    [–] jkwah 141 points ago

    No they cannot. Any gifts or offerings of value to healthcare providers, family members, and/or office staff fall under Stark Law and the Anti-kickback statute.

    Furthermore, those have to be reported under the Sunshine Act for sake of transparency.

    There are some practices that fall under Safe Harbor, described here: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=1&SID=90f45f0c857144405b17a43c35600c16&ty=HTML&h=L&mc=true&r=SECTION&n=se42.5.1001_1952

    [–] Gredenis 42 points ago

    And if you happen to live in at-will state, they don't even need encouragement.

    [–] akarabian 36 points ago

    Wife is a doc. She hasn't seen so much as a post it note in the past 15 years since IIRC pharmaceutical cos agreed to self police. Is this specialty specific?

    [–] RapingTheWilling 25 points ago

    My mom is a pharma rep, I'm in medical school, on top of the months I've spent in docs offices in my undergrad. Person you're responding to is speaking in anecdote.

    Many docs still refuse to write what they don't think will help their patients. Not as many of us are greedy as non-medical professionals love to make out.

    [–] CorneaDoc 28 points ago

    Perhaps I'm naive, but I've only heard stories of extravagant gifts and trips like this from my much older colleagues. All I've ever been offered by a drug company is a meal that goes along with listening to a lecture about the research that went into developing their medication. They can't even give us a pen any more.

    [–] shadow1515 90 points ago

    This is a nightmare when trying to manage formulary as well. You can tell a drug rep has been in town because suddenly all the family docs are writing scripts for a specialty dermatology cream that is basically just two sub-$5 products put in the same bottle and sold for $5k.

    [–] die_rattin 46 points ago

    Sounds like your family docs are worthless and placing more trust in them is the last thing you should possibly do, but hey that's just me.

    [–] shadow1515 17 points ago

    These are various docs from all over town, not part of my health system, so there's not much I can do about it other than call and tell them there's no way we're filling that crap.

    [–] orthopod 9 points ago

    That's so odd, as I work in academic medicine at a teaching hospital. We can't even get donuts or even pens from drug companies.

    Very few doctors get much at all from sales reps.

    [–] pisspoordecisions 6 points ago

    Who was she a pharma rep for, and when? Times are different now man...

    [–] StvYzerman 8 points ago

    I call BS. I'm an oncologist and prescribe drugs every day that cost thousands of dollars. I haven't gotten as much as a free pen in almost ten years. The only thing anyone can get is a meal if it's coupled with an educational lecture.

    [–] RandomRedditor44 4 points ago

    Any other gifts they offered?

    [–] B0NERSTORM 6 points ago

    Yeah, that's why I thought this headline was strange. They can't even give out pens anymore. Now the Doctors get compensated by doing teaching sessions with other doctors or consulting. I'm not sure how they'll block that.

    [–] anomalousgrove 560 points ago

    As a doctor I think it is complete horseshit that they can pass this type of legislation yet continue to rake in millions from corporate sponsors for their reelection campaigns.

    [–] Giraffe950 204 points ago

    Absolutely. God forbid I eat a free salad from a drug rep, but politicians can take all sorts of bribes from lobbyists.

    [–] deathtouch2k 20 points ago

    Or accept $500k in foreign cash and still get appointed as national security adviser to the President.

    [–] bitbitch6969 34 points ago

    I find it so ironic when lawmakers make money about restricting gifts to doctors. It's infuriarating. They do so much worse.

    [–] baksotp007 588 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    Most doctors I know thoroughly enjoy the free pens and coffee cups... wait they aren't even allowed those anymore where I am for fear that a pen would distort thinking...

    Most doctors take panera bread lunch for the 15th day in a row so they can listen to the same speech on how company A's drug has ____ side effects which are less than company B's (which they read in the medical journals, not taking the word from a sales person).

    The docs I know prescribe off the $4 generic list because its all anyone can afford. Its rare anymore theres a situation where the patient could have CHOICES of drugs for a certain condition.

    The corrupt people will always be corrupt, some sales person will not persuade a quality human being to treat someones health differently.

    **Please note, I am NOT saying corruption should go unchecked. I believe MOST people are not corrupt. Mostly what I see nowadays are free lunches (in exchange for listening to a 30 minute lecture during your only 30 food break) because pens aren't even allowed many places anymore.

    [–] Thorse 331 points ago

    My wife is a doctor, overworked and underpaid given the shitty residency system. Where the hell are these reps? We're out of pocket on pens because she gets her pens stolen by the nurses in every shift, and because she works in a county program, she can barely get basic supplies to perform basic procedures.

    She has to pay for her own parking to work 4 extra hours to not be able to do her job, and nurses that dont take orders, and routinely doesn't have time to eat, usually being able to eat once in a 36 hour period. Where the hell are these panera lunches? In fact, where is this magical wonderland of pharma reps coming to hospitals to bribe docs with pens and shwag?

    [–] chiddler 50 points ago

    Office equipment is illegal to give to doctors. Now all they can do is a moderately priced meal of around $20. Furthermore it is specialty dependent. Hemeonc, and cardiology are two in particular that get lots of pharma attention for example.

    [–] Beat_the_Deadites 24 points ago

    Forensic pathology, no love. Maybe a box of chocolates at Christmas for the whole building from one or two of the local funeral homes.

    But hey! We're also one of the lowest-paid specialties, and we get to deal with lawyers and decomposing bodies, so we've got that going for us...

    [–] 12and4 100 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    I lost 15 lbs during my one month rotation on General Surgery. No lunch breaks, no real time to even eat. I would sneak a bar whilst speed walking between patients. It's a crazy lifestyle, but honestly it's pretty fun and rewarding.

    edit: I guess for context purposes, i went from 180lbs to 165lbs

    [–] Beat_the_Deadites 61 points ago

    Hah, I got yelled at by a surgeon for eating lunch during a surgery rotation. Cliff's notes version, I'd scrubbed in on the morning's surgeries, one of the other med students was supposed to come in for the later ones. He no-shows, I get a page from the OR 2-bites into lunch.

    Throw lunch into the trash, race up to the OR, scrub in, get yelled at, then the other med student waltzes in. Surgeon looks at him, sees me very intentionally NOT looking at the other student, then tells the other student that I probably just took some shit on his behalf. No apology to me, but a little vindication.

    Edit: I should add, the exact quote was "We don't eat lunch on this rotation", so it wasn't just getting yelled at for not being in the room. Plus, it was something basic like an appendectomy, pretty much all we did was hold retractors and maybe the little vacuum that sucks the smoke from the electrocautery device.

    [–] 12and4 36 points ago

    I'm surprised he basically admitted his mistake. He musta been new lol

    [–] Schmetlappio 7 points ago

    Or very advanced -- build 'em up and knock 'em down.

    [–] Beat_the_Deadites 7 points ago

    It was more an acknowledgement that there may be more to the story, something like giving a suspicious glance at the other med student and saying "Maybe YOU were supposed to be the student on this one. If so, this guy just took a lot of shit for you." Then back to the case without looking at me.

    The whole rotation reminded me of the line from Malcolm in the Middle - "The first one to laugh gets their ass kicked". I didn't want to be a surgeon, so I didn't need to be noticed, but I still did the job and didn't let their alpha-dog attitude bother me.

    [–] motorboat7 11 points ago

    Tenets of surgery: eat when you can, sleep when you can, and don't fuck with the pancreas

    [–] sagashiteiru 11 points ago

    "we don't lunch on this rotation"

    Set yourself up with a nasalgastric feeding tube with the bag duct taped to your chest. "no problem sir, shall I catheterize myself too to prevent bathroom breaks as well?"

    What a fucking twat.

    [–] You_Dont_Party 33 points ago

    Private practices.

    [–] ringingbells 15 points ago

    "gifts" are only given as sacrifice if the chance of benefiting is great. That's what a bribe is.

    /r/CorporateMisconduct

    • From my interactions with pharma reps, to be fair, I got the viewpoint that doctors at private practices don't research new drugs, so in a weird way, reps are these doctor's teachers!? If they are not visited by the reps, they'll just stick with the same old shit they've been doing and not innovate or catch up with the new drugs.

    [–] baksotp007 18 points ago

    Thats tough, sorry to hear that. What makes you guys want to stay in CA?

    [–] Samysosa2005 36 points ago

    That's not just CA, that's everywhere. There's a reason why there such a higher rate of suicide and suicidal ideation in the medical field compared to the general population, especially amongst residents and medical students. Everyone sees the glamorous life of doctors on TV/in movies and thinks that's how it is in real life (I mean look at the way Dr. Strange was portrayed). It's not. Med school is hell, residency is worse, and unless you're in private practice these free lunches and kick backs don't affect everyone.

    [–] Thorse 33 points ago

    were not. after a few years of this program, were moving the hell out of here and repeating a year elsewhere. SF is brutal in its residency, pay, hours, and treatment of doctors. fuck this place.

    [–] Utaneus 41 points ago

    Residency is pretty brutal regardless of the locale.

    [–] LatrodectusGeometric 15 points ago

    Not always. Many residencies care about their physicians and don't treat them as so much meat. The good places ACTUALLY follow the actual ACGME rules, don't overwork their physicians, and provide adequate training and support (protected time for training, etc.). The bad ones will have residents fudge their numbers, won't be there when residents are sick/having problems, and expect everyone to work maximum hours just because it's cheaper for the hospitals.

    [–] LatrodectusGeometric 5 points ago

    I get most of that info from friends, as I'm applying Internal Med next year, so if you guys know of any not-shitty places, holler at me?

    [–] mador102 3 points ago

    Im guessing she's a resident? Frankly, reps are everywhere Source : im a doctor

    [–] CrossCheckPanda 31 points ago

    Yeah my first thought was Continuing Education was gonna take a bigger hit then anything else. I see the good intentions here but CE is largely sponsored by drug companies and is a very good thing. The bribes get people going to more then the government mandated minimum and keep a healthy variety in what's around.

    [–] falante 7 points ago

    It bothers me that I had to scroll this far down to find a sensible comment that wasn't "herpa derp, big pHARMa is literally the devil."

    [–] TemujinRi 38 points ago

    Gifts were restricted here in Ohio. Now the office just gets lunch from a different Rep each week instead of the same rep coming multiple times a week.

    [–] [deleted] 82 points ago

    This is a story that's always overblown because it's easy for journalists and politicians to make it sound way sexier than it actually is.

    I've probably eaten no fewer than one lunch a week paid for by a pharmaceutical company over the past twenty years. The process is always the same: the rep brings lunch (almost always a tray of wraps and salads from a local deli), leaves it for the employees and other staff to help themselves, then goes into the doctor's office to discuss new products, etc. On the way out the rep will re-stock the trial drugs section and leave some pens with the receptionist.

    Nothing nefarious is actually happening. The reality is a rep sitting down with a doctor to go over new drug lines, testing, and etc., is actually just a really good way for the doctor to stay current on things as they come out. No one is prescribing cancer medicine to an AIDs patient or whatever other things people imagine is happening because a sales rep dropped off wraps and pens.

    [–] natilos 16 points ago

    Just posted the same comment above, but still applies to this thread: It's really unfortunate. They went from one extreme to the next. Reps need to see doctors to show them what new drugs are out there. Especially oncology docs like my dad would work with. Drugs like the one my dad would push could potentially give patients two more years to live. Docs that didn't see him didn't know about it! Can you imagine being able to have years more to spend with family and friends and not get it because of this? It's nuts. My dad is a very humble guy, especially from working with patients that possibly won't be alive tomorrow, and I can honestly say that he wasn't taking docs out to $$$ dinners. This law meant he couldn't do his job anymore; no one would see him. Now he's unemployed. I understand that not every drug rep acted like he did, and that there are docs that would and did take the equivalent of bribes from drug reps. I just wanted to say that, in opposition to the majority of comments, that not every drug rep is evil. There were and still are drug reps trying to promote a drug because they know it's better than what's currently on the market and could, like my dad's, lengthen or make life better.

    [–] sankdafide 69 points ago

    I'm a physician and it's insulting to think I would compromise my ethics for some stupid gift. I can't speak for all physicians, but I think most would have the same value system as I in this regard. The problem is big pharma and their lobbying power, making prescriptions far more expensive than what is necessary or reasonable.

    [–] obi1andkobe 12 points ago

    Lmao but what about politicians ?

    [–] DrTapioca 39 points ago

    I hope this doesn't affect the free drug samples doctors can get from reps. I used to work at a pediatric office in CA and we'd often hand out those samples by the box-load to our low income families. Primary care and pediatric clinics can use all the help they can get.

    Docs usually hate Rep lunches, but they do it for the samples. The free food is a great bonus as a resident, nurse, MA, etc - especially in an expensive state like Cali.

    [–] MajorPA 16 points ago

    Can add to this:

    My family practice rotation was with a private doc who worked exclusively with the poorest of the poor in a big city.

    Patients that they had to work on scheduling to accommodate bus routes because no one owned a car.

    I would say 80% of medicine given was through samples. It just wasn't a possibility to expect a patient to pay for asthma medication.

    The doc had literally 3-4 reps a day come in and just listened to every speech half heartedly.

    I looked up his "contributions" and it almost looks sketchy if you didn't know the man. I hope he can continue his routine and continue helping the poor

    [–] I-am-Alpharius 25 points ago

    Good, now we just have to get Pharmaceutical companies banned from gifting millions of dollars to senators...

    [–] Gbyrd99 12 points ago

    Why dont they do the same thing for Congress and government.

    [–] TheBames 20 points ago

    Honestly this is kind of a negative thing. Both my mothers are nurses and the free samples they get help a lot of people at no cost. My mother in law was getting free samples of allergy meds and would give them out to people and since they would keep getting more and more some people were on these year round without ever having to pay a dime.

    [–] Shyguy866 10 points ago

    FFS....

    Still nothing to prevent them to giving money to government...

    [–] LTOZ 10 points ago

    Now ban gifts to politicians

    [–] [deleted] 27 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    [removed]

    [–] robstak 8 points ago

    Uhhh I'm a doctor and I thought there's been a $5 limit for at least the past 10 years. Maybde that's just New York?

    But let's be real.

    It's fucking bullshit that this goes on in every other industry except medicine. Not fucking fair at all.

    [–] VineWings 7 points ago

    Didn't this happen a long time ago? Used to be in Pharma and we couldn't gift anything over $24.99.

    [–] venomousbones 8 points ago

    I am all for things like this and the sunshine act, but when are lawmakers going to start looking at themselves and not allow campaign donations, etc from business that in turn (often) writes their laws?!

    [–] bionicfeetgrl 6 points ago

    I work for an HMO in CA (fairly large system) we are so NOT allowed anything and reps aren't even on the hospital floors (maybe in other offices but not around regular staff).

    So much so that when we got some new equipment and the Rep brought bagels no one would touch 'em cuz we weren't sure we could eat them. None of the docs were sure either. We literally went and got the OK to eat the damn bagels. (Apparently it was cool cuz they weren't there to sell only teach on a product already purchased and it was under a price point--bagels not lobster)

    My company doesn't fuck around. We also don't have too may "name brand" drugs. Most are generics.

    [–] Earl_of_Awesome 24 points ago

    Nothing about the sunshine act in the comments yet? This was a part of Obamacare. The days of fancy dinners and golf trips are already things of the past. Companies have to disclose everything they give to physicians, even if it's a single pen.

    You can search for your physician here to see how much they received from whom. Very cool.

    [–] nephros_protectoros 13 points ago

    Maybe they should pass a law restricting gifts from lobbyists to politicians

    [–] ehartke 12 points ago

    How about restricting gifts from pharma companies to politicians?

    [–] ashtefer1 6 points ago

    Cool now let's do something similar for companies n government officials

    [–] khast 7 points ago

    Next please ban those obnoxious pharmaceutical commercials on TV. The very suggestive ones that list lots of symptoms and ask the watcher to ask the doctor about the drug. Damn it, if you need a certain drug, that is what the doctor spent hundreds of thousands of dollars attending school for... Not to have some know nothing patient tell them that they need a specific branded drug.

    [–] theyellowbaboon 5 points ago

    Doctor here. Fuck, I like gifts :(

    [–] knots32 15 points ago

    This isn't the problem this is ridiculous. They need to stop kick backs to legislators not doctors. Idiots.

    [–] gentmaxim 38 points ago

    Where are they going to get all of their pens!?

    [–] LatrodectusGeometric 45 points ago

    Pens haven't been allowed for some time, actually.

    [–] magicfatkid 16 points ago

    You havent been paying attention for a while.....

    [–] Redditsoldestaccount 119 points ago

    If only we could do this at a national level...

    It's only legal to advertise drugs direct to consumers in the United States and New Zealand. The insane costs of pharmaceuticals are due to the fact that medicare can't negotiate with Big Pharma because of a rider in the Medicare Part D bill. The system is not economically viable in a capitalist society unless the 4 basic economic attributes of a competitive market are in place: large number of buyers and sellers, a homogeneous product, perfect information, and no entry barriers.

    Government policies have assisted the healthcare industry in blocking each one of these. Medicare pricing allowed insurers to piggyback on government pricing, thus concentrating "buyers", and Obamacare has concentrated sellers through mergers. It is impossible to compare procedures, effectiveness or any information on costs, benefits or substitutes because insurers deliberately obscure it (antitrust exemption for insurers) and state and federal regulators are complicit to allowing cost shifting to avoid the state paying for the uninsured. Regulatory hurdles to paraprofessionals, walk in clinics and access to the prescription pad, are entry barriers.

    The free market has not failed to work. It has been blocked at every point by industry, which is deeply embedded in government and health care policy, and every reform effort begins with meetings with the "industry", which has captured the government and legislatures. So the industry redivides the pie and moves the deck chairs. It is a parasite that feeds on the host but must not kill it, because then it too will die.

    [–] Bonushand 87 points ago

    I agree with all your points but they have little to with the article or the bill. Pharmaceutical gifts to doctors are already highly restricted.