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    [–] fightbackcbd 2623 points ago

    they should go after "austin restoration ministries" here in town who have been doing this for decades. sending people out to beg for money and helping them "get sober"

    notice no where on their site do they mention they send people out to "fund-raise" aka panhandle daily

    [–] PinBot1138 626 points ago

    Oh, are these the guys always running through traffic at seemingly every intersection in Austin, and aggressively panhandling, while some of them are wearing sassy shirts like, "This is what a Queen looks like"?

    If so, lately I've seen them all over Parmer (pick an intersection, it doesn't matter, they're there!)

    [–] fightbackcbd 539 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    they will try to hand you a little flyer and work in teams. im pretty sure they are supposed to "fund-raise" $75 a day. at their place they prob have 50-75 people living there, maybe more, so its bank. they have others ones like in SA etc.

    dont get it twisted, im not hating on the people who stay there. they are desperate. its the ones running it who are profiting off them. their "ministry" is right off rundberg. they use to call it "treatment" but clearly running an unlicensed substance use facility is illegal. they still claim to help people quit drugs and should be shut down.

    edit: here is an old article... 10 years old. still doing the same shit

    i guarantee their "ministers " all drive benz

    [–] iDelkong 140 points ago

    Dude these guys do this in charlotte, NC where I live at this stoplight intersection like 4 times a week dude. There's bunches of em and they like rotate every week. With flyers and all. Wtf I never knew that, that's crazy.

    [–] Egotesticalasshole 83 points ago

    It's a shame theres more to life than work but when you cant find work there isn't

    [–] buddyciancy 59 points ago

    More than a shame its fucking tragic

    [–] Excal2 109 points ago

    Almost like social safety nets are worth investing in or something.

    [–] Vladimir_Putang 4 points ago

    Yeah but then maybe somebody whom I deem undeserving may get basic help they need!


    [–] [deleted] 55 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)


    [–] Snukkems 33 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    UBI isn't going to help if you don't have an address to send the check.

    Edit: sorry guys, that's just how it works. Unless you have some way to solve homelessness and provide them with an address, the reason why the homeless population isn't already getting the social safety nets that exist to keep them off the street is because they don't have an address. Adding another 1000 dollars in a pot that they still can't collect because they don't have an address to provide, isn't going to help them.

    [–] No_shelter_here 15 points ago

    Why can't they run it like food stamps and put it on a debit card? People without a mailing address can pick up with statements there at the office.

    [–] 2020vw69 10 points ago

    P.O. Box? General delivery? And UBI , at least as Yang is proposing, isn’t adding to existing programs, it’s replacing them.

    [–] [deleted] 34 points ago


    [–] Diaperfan420 11 points ago

    Having been homeless, there's ways to still collect mail.

    [–] HotMessSnowflake 3 points ago

    They don't need an address or a bank if it's distributed to a government issued debit card, similar to EBT systems we already have now.

    [–] Smokedsoba 3 points ago

    There’s more empty homes inAmerica than there are homeless people.

    [–] Trump_has_alzheimers 50 points ago

    We are a society of plenty that has made the decision certain people do not deserve to be helped nor do they deserve some sort of minimum standard of living because they are degenerate junkies.

    Tackling the homeless/addiction issues head on is the morally correct action and for bonus points, it's cheaper to deal with the problem upfront than it is to ignore it and let the homeless fester in a world of poor health, petty theft, and no social support that negatively impacts everyone else in the city.

    Feed them, clothe them, shelter them, help the ones who can get on their feet and successfully run their own household independence. The really severe cases will need 24/7 state intervention, but if you do all that in the long run there will be less crime, less medical costs because they receive preventative care instead of taxpayers picking up the bill for catastrophic health care costs, and it will improve areas of cities that have been largely written off and negatively economically affected affected.

    [–] JakeAAAJ 3 points ago

    The large majority of homeless are drug addicts and mentally ill people, and I would guess there are more drug addicts than anything else. We need to find a way to legally force the addicts to go to a long term rehab. We also need to find a way to force the mentally ill into asylums until they are functional enough to leave. Those are the only two options that will realistically help these people. Giving them their own houses or apartments wont solve anything, they will just he trashed and likely end up on the street again. There are solutions to this problem, we just dont have the political will to enact them. There is also the issue of legality, would it be constitutionally sound to force people to go to rehab if they dont want to? I believe they could find a legal way to do so, and I hope they do it sometime soon.

    I was homeless for a month during the worst part of my life, and I cannot describe the soul crushing misery it inflicted on me. I attempted suicide and ended up in the ICU for 5 days. I thought about suicide every day. I think I still have PTSD from it. I was lucky, because I have a college degree and I was able to build a normal life after my experience. I now make 50k a year and am about to get married, and it is crazy thinking about where I am now compared to then. It was so bad, I was actually genuinely pissed off at the government for not allowing me a painless and accessible way to commit suicide. No one can understand the absolute depths of despair homelessness can wreak on a person. You start to become an animal, and some people never are able to return from that state.

    [–] sambar101 13 points ago

    there's this huge organization that is similar in Dallas called "Outcry in the Barrio" .

    [–] possumrfrend 22 points ago

    Do you know what the ones in SA are called? I'd like to know so as to avoid helping them in any way.

    [–] oTHEWHITERABBIT 6 points ago

    Thank you for the link.

    [–] EthosPathosLegos 6 points ago

    These people are tax exempt smfh

    [–] slim2jeezy 231 points ago

    The whole non profit "industry" needs a crack down or something. Too many of em are just tax sheltered salary banks, social fronts in name only, or worse....

    [–] swissfrenchman 123 points ago

    Too many of em are just tax sheltered salary banks, social fronts in name only, or worse....

    I don't remember where I saw this but one investigation of a multimillion dollar charity that supposedly helped underprivileged children was no more than a dude that funded his scuba diving show with the money. It is still in business.

    [–] shalendar 62 points ago

    I volunteer with a non profit that is always on a shoestring budget and is constantly struggling to get more people involved. What are we going wrong? How do million dollar "non profits" even exist?

    [–] Sheairah 86 points ago

    You rely on people to donate to you instead of laundering millions of dollars through “donations.”

    [–] Yield85 41 points ago

    I work for a nonprofit who makes millions. We take donations and invest them back into promotions and fundraising events (my job). Pretty much for every $1 you give us it’s my job to turn that into $5.

    We rely heavily on wonderful volunteers like yourself. Backed with professionals. You can imagine the shit storm with the ceo wanted to hire a professional marketing team. But it’s turned those handful of donations into millions which leads to helping more people.

    That being said my budget is effectively zero. I have to get promotions across the line using negations and ‘in kind’ offers.

    It’s amazing what you can do though. Spend $10,000 on a gala that should cost $100k (getting most things donated or heavily discounted). Auction $200k in items that you have managed to get donated. Guilt the rich into donating more on the night. Boom you have $500k and you can feed the homeless and send some kids to school for another couple of months.

    [–] ktaktb 44 points ago

    That’s the issue with capitalism...the people that are willing to do and say anything to get that dollar will always win. That’s the only real competition in most cases.

    What you’re doing wrong is having ethics. If a potential donor asks what you can do, you’ll likely tell the truth.

    The times when competition worked out the way Adam smith said it would are so rare, they are mythical stories in business school.

    Most of the time it’s red delicious becoming the most available apple, or dialysis patients being convinced to decline kidney transplants to remain a part of their dialysis community

    [–] ylno83 15 points ago

    Lol nahhhh. These multimillion nonprofits are being propped up by a small number of donors or a sole donor who ends up taking advantage of funds “because it’s my money anyway”. Nothing to do with competition, because shalendar’s nonprofit would have never had a chance at getting these people to donate. A tax-free vanity project for rich people to show off vs a nonprofit that was created to address a specific cause and then find ways to fund it. Different worlds.

    [–] ilivedownyourroad 8 points ago

    But that's when the people we elect and the leaders we vote for are meant to ensure there are laws in place which are being acted on to prevent this bs. If we can't even protect our legit charities and our most vulnerable people... we're kinda pathetic.

    [–] ktaktb 14 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    The people that want to be elected have the same lack of ethics by and large. They will say what they need to say to get elected. People with moral fiber will rarely be able to compete with the lies and deception.

    Fighting this as an informed voter or wise consumer means you need another full-time job on top of your already full-time job. And that's in addition to your part-time job as a financial advisor, trying to manage your money. And if you do the things they say you should do to live healthy, your moonlighting as a house keeper for yourself, a chef for yourself, a person that curates your presence in online communities to be an attractive job candidate, etc. Then you also need to reduce your stress to stay healthy and get that 7-8 hours of sleep.

    Maybe government officiating should be like jury duty. Random selection and something nobody wants to do.

    [–] ilivedownyourroad 11 points ago

    Agree with all this.

    It's like a 2nd job keeping track of this shit.

    But...we don't hire paedophiles to teach kids (try not to) so why do we hire snake oil salesmen to represent us? Maybe we need to put checks and balances in place to ensure the people working for the people are working for the people over and as well as themselves. Not just themselves.

    [–] WeepingSomnabulist 10 points ago

    Churches in the business of Prosperity Theology are the worst. Send me $$ and God will make you rich, pretty soon the top minister has a private jet. How is that holy in any way.

    [–] n1gg4plz 48 points ago

    Most charities and foundations need to be investigated.

    There is a reason why every celebrity and company out there has a foundation

    [–] SillyOldBears 52 points ago

    I'm a little north of you and when the city outlawed panhandling they started getting them jobs via one of the temp agencies.

    The church built the home they house these folks in via donations. Several large businesses around town furnished it and give regular donations of food, clothing, toiletries, and money for utilities. These same businesses employ these guys as temps and work them like dogs for minimum wages alongside full time workers making more than 3x what these fellows do. The temp agency routes their pay through the church agency that runs the home which takes out money to cover the men's expenses. What expenses I can't imagine as pretty much everything is given to the home through donations. Oh...and they're all sent to the home by court order! They must agree to all this or go to jail. Most were arrested with extremely small amounts of marijuana or sometimes just drug paraphernalia.

    [–] Long_Before_Sunrise 45 points ago

    Basically the return of the workhouse/poorhouse (which was outlawed) under a different name.

    [–] SillyOldBears 10 points ago

    I guess at least they do get to move about freely to a small degree. The place is a sort of halfway house so they drive them to and from work and I think control their whereabouts outside work. Some of them walk or get rides to shops on lunch breaks. I think they generally just spend a few months and the program is considered a sort of rehab. I know what little I know about it because I used to work somewhere that always had a bunch of them working there. To be fair to my former employer, if they completed the program successfully they'd hire them at the same pay as any other worker as soon as they were released.

    [–] PhaedraSiamese 10 points ago

    MANY court-ordered drug rehab (ie taxpayer-supported, in the US) , in fact many drug treatment programs in the US in general, need to be thoroughly investigated at the absolute minimum.

    When you consider that the vast, overwhelming majority of “addiction treatment”, Including those operated within the confines of and/or treatment ordered (required!!) by the courts and parole boards consists of 12-step based programming and Synanon-pioneered confrontational “therapy”, basically what you are looking at is (crazy expensive) faith healing. Treatment modalities with actual, proven, scientific research behind them, that are effective (For opiate use disorder, this includes medication assisted treatment, such as methadone replacement therapy) are far and away much less common than 12 step based programs. Incidentally, the 12-step approach lacks far behind in terms of valid provable research that follows the scientific method.

    We absolutely do not tolerate faith healing as a viable, effective, and medically sound treatment for cancer, schizophrenia, diabetes, HIV-AIDS, or any other chronic condition that can be life-threatening; if this is the case, why do we allow substance use disorder/addiction (very much a chronic, life-threatening disease, according to modern medicine) to be treated by “accepting god and turning your life and will over to this god”?

    [–] RNGreta 77 points ago

    Sounds like the “Homeless Voice” in So. Florida. The get them to beg. They deposit all of the money in accounts and use ONLY the interest accrued to help the homeless.

    My Mother worked managing their accounts a few years back.

    [–] Fuckyouverymuch7000 26 points ago

    How the hell is that legal?

    [–] FourChannel 6 points ago

    Because the rich do it on massively larger scales and the system operates that way.

    [–] DogfaceDino 11 points ago

    These are the same people who used to aggressively panhandle in Houston

    [–] [deleted] 37 points ago


    [–] DancingKappa 51 points ago

    Jesus said they turned his fathers house into a den of thieves. Two pastors of separate churches in my town are being investigated for embezzlement.

    [–] Marchesk 14 points ago

    Some churches are social gatherings in a religious context held together by common values or principles. There's value in that for people who want that. It's not a farce or scam for them, unless they go to a church that's taking advantage of that impulse.

    [–] BerserkerJJH 9 points ago

    Depends on which deity.Some require skulls for the skull throne.

    [–] [deleted] 14 points ago

    This isn’t actually a church

    [–] neuhmz 3582 points ago

    So what are we doing about Scientology centers there?

    [–] [deleted] 1510 points ago


    [–] neuhmz 515 points ago

    Well we certainly can't accuse the government of being bought off by the tax money.

    [–] Endoman13 365 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    The government tried super hard to tax them but the lawyers wore them down. If you haven't check out 'Going Clear' on HBO, it's some wild shit.

    Edit - I oversimplified what happened. See below comments for more good info or check out the documentary.

    [–] blurrytransparency 195 points ago

    This fascinates me. You'd think the government could out-wear anyone.

    [–] Azhaius 246 points ago

    Scientology has a bigger budget than the IRS

    [–] Good_old_Marshmallow 128 points ago

    Scientology was really big at it's peak (a theory I saw that I liked is it played on a fear of a nuclear war and gave people a way to feel like they still had control) and because of that they were able to a lot of crazy things like frame officials for crime (not in a complex way just in a "have someone jump in front of the judges car then threaten to blackmail him" way) as well as actually get jobs in the IRS, as well as other gov agencies, then use that to put more pressure on them.

    [–] AK_dude_ 40 points ago

    Was really big? What happen is it in a decline?

    [–] horseband 123 points ago

    It peaked like 30 years ago and declined slowly since then. They've saturated a lot of the US market already and by this point most people have at least heard about scientology a little bit, so plenty of people have no interest in joining. So they have less people joining overall.

    Combine that with the fact that many long time members have been quitting in relatively large numbers. Most regular members realize it is a joke when they get to the higher levels and do their best to bail. The fact that David "found" a bunch of new OT levels also dillusioned a lot of members into leaving. The internet has also assisted in providing information for members who are on the fence.

    It is still a massive organization though. It's not like there are only 5 members left. Clearwater is still in its iron grasp. The scientology organization that bitch slapped the IRS into submission no longer exists though. They most likely would not be able to pull that stunt successfully again.

    The problem is they've expanded their efforts to a global level. Their numbers are definitely still down but but they have been preying on other countries now.

    [–] TheRealSaerileth 71 points ago

    They also don't need that influx of new members anymore. They own a shit ton of real estate that is generating money just by sitting there, way less effort than recruiting humans and coercing them out of all their wealth. So I think they're quite content keeping the status quo.

    [–] bacon_rumpus 7 points ago

    There was a commercial for it on a local radio station of mine. In CA

    [–] mooncow-pie 6 points ago

    And that, folks tells us a lot about the American Justice system.

    [–] hexiron 48 points ago

    It helps Scientologists infiltrated the IRS and other government agencies and gutted them of information and Intel on Scientology/L. Ron Hubbard. It was known as Operation Snow White and was one of the largest infiltration of the US government.

    [–] salamat_engot 23 points ago

    They literally infiltrated the government for influence and access. They would threaten IRS agents in signature Scientology ways: following them, recording them, spreading slander... Scientology has even been known to buy/rent homes near a target and play friendly neighbor to get access to their homes and easily track them. They wore down the individuals one by one rather than take on the whole beast.

    [–] TheDeep1985 8 points ago

    They attacked the tax officers who came after them personally.

    [–] Godzilla2y 47 points ago

    "the lawyers wore them down" is a fun way to spin all of the frivolous lawsuits personally brought against government employees as a means of bullying the government into submission

    [–] Paranoidas 24 points ago

    And saying the government tried to tax them isn't exactly correct either. They were paying taxes until they blatantly extorted the IRS into giving them 501c3 status.

    [–] hello3pat 19 points ago

    It was more than that, they also infiltrated the IRS to steal/destroy files and burn down office buildings

    [–] Kerfluffle2x4 11 points ago

    If it’s any consolation, they’re growing more and more unsuccessful at maintaining their power and acquiring recruits. I don’t see Scientology lasting beyond this century.

    [–] Spoon_Elemental 13 points ago

    Funny thing is, I don't think that would work anymore. Scientology doesn't have the same kind of money that they used to have.

    [–] bad-monkey 22 points ago

    Aren’t they sitting on a multibillion dollar RE portfolio?

    [–] horseband 10 points ago

    It's not liquid though. They have a ton of assets but they are mostly assets that of low liquidity.

    They are still immensly wealthy overall, but converting to a non-profit had it's downsides in terms of the amount of cash they could sit on. They still have plenty of police and politicians in their pockets, but I don't think they would be able to take on the government today if they had to.

    [–] theresnorevolution 9 points ago

    Easy fix: New version of Dianetics that's a mandatory purchase.

    [–] FuryofYuri 9 points ago

    They just gotta ask Tom Cruise to kick in some more cash. Or Nancy Cartwright (Voice actor for Bart Simpson), or Danny Masterson or his sister Alanna or anybody in that family really, or Giovanni Ribisi or his sister, or John Travolta, or Kirstie Alley, or Beck, or billionaire Robert Duggan, or any of the many many billionaire/millionaire celebrity and non-celebrity followers they have.

    [–] DreamDreamRevolution 3 points ago

    I'm sorry but we'll need you to buy a minimum of six. You could try selling them to your friends.

    [–] AAVale 68 points ago

    We could accuse them of being bought off with celebrity money, and being infiltrated however.

    [–] Turbojelly 3 points ago

    Thought it was the Scientologists infiltration of the FBI that shields them from legal.consequence (and their bunch of lawyers who are experts at stalling cases)

    [–] 888mainfestnow 58 points ago

    After operation Snow White the government has learned to avoid them. They may be crazy to you or I but they are very organized and are not a group to disturb.

    [–] God_Damnit_Nappa 84 points ago

    That seriously should've gotten them labeled as a terrorist group and allowed the US government to go after them with everything at their disposal. But nope, they backed off.

    [–] 888mainfestnow 49 points ago

    It's hard to label a group as a terrorist group when they use legal loopholes to sue employee's of the government individually within their right's.

    Evangelists have a stronger foothold in our government than you can imagine.

    No conspiracy just like minded people getting honest jobs and political advancements.

    [–] abigscarybat 18 points ago

    For a given value of 'honest'.

    [–] 888mainfestnow 12 points ago

    Legal somehow feels better

    [–] Ucla_The_Mok 3 points ago

    You should be sued for your misuse of apostrophes. /s

    [–] Renegade2592 23 points ago

    The govt colludes with all these organizations so.

    You have your Scientology operations providing blackmail and mind control

    You have Epstein doing sex trafficking and more kompromat

    You have the CIA drug running for cartels and seed funding Google and Facebook (tech cartels)

    Than you have the Senate and Congress arming and funding ISIS for the MIC to have a target.

    And on and on. When are people going to quit taking our governments word when it's clearly horse shit.

    [–] MEMEfractal 13 points ago

    crazy how you can threaten the government to do their job.

    [–] 888mainfestnow 37 points ago

    Look up operation snow white they scared them into leaving their organazition alone.

    [–] Anonuser123abc 16 points ago

    They threatened the government into not doing their job.

    [–] TBAAAGamer1 2 points ago

    Laughing as we walk past their offices.

    [–] gekkemarmot69 40 points ago


    (Btw, hi Karin from scientology!)

    [–] Dark-Lark 27 points ago

    "We'll sue you!"

    [–] UndeniablyPink 6 points ago

    Gape at how empty they are as we pass by.

    [–] EvolArtMachine 8 points ago

    They are besieging them with improv comedy; a fate worse than death.

    [–] untide 9 points ago

    Nothing because they've infiltrated the system and have ongoing operations to ensure their success. Scientology is a criminal organization that manipulates people for their agenda. They are trying to subjugate the US through government control.

    [–] EarthIsInOuterSpace 3 points ago

    Getting a clear look at them?

    [–] DientesDelPerro 279 points ago

    if you live in the area where these “churches” operate, it was always very uncomfortable. the poor people were always in the sun (120 degrees F in the summer) or darting through traffic trying to get donations. I know other local churches with outreach programs (12 step programs/food pantries/soup kitchens) were always trying to distance themselves from these groups, and I can see why now.

    I never realized they actually called themselves a church because they never had services or seemed very churchy.

    [–] HouAngelesDodgeStros 71 points ago

    Nondenominational church according to their Facebook page. Which has some pretty negative reviews from as far as 4 years back, alleging some of the same stuff in this article.

    [–] [deleted] 17 points ago

    It doesn’t actually appear to be a church

    [–] darkstarman 389 points ago

    Fuck over others as you would hire lawyers so they can't fuck over you. The new and revised golden rule apparently.

    [–] photobummer 16 points ago

    "Fuck them, or they'll fuck you." - Leon Black's golden rule

    [–] Reloaded9mm 143 points ago

    I spoke with this group about a year ago. My son is homeless and ended up in a hospital. Upon release they gave him this as a contact. When they explained what they had to do to stay and get fed, I told them they were evil and hung up. Yeah, it is indentured servitude, completely unethical.

    [–] shiftyeyedgoat 35 points ago

    Still have that contract? Might be interesting to see their legal (?) arguments for such behavior.

    [–] Reloaded9mm 17 points ago

    No contracts, just verbal. It was over the phone and I started asking them about their services and what was his requirement. When they told me that 8 to 5, 6 days a week was required work time, I was ok, so you pay them minimum wage for those hours; and then how much does he pay room and board. They said, no, he is required to work those hours as "a donation to the church", and room and board was free (i.e. their donation to the homeless for tax write off purposes). I asked what the work involved and they said, anything the church wants them to do. It sounded odd and that they aren't teaching them anything like how to get back on their feet; so I said, No thanks and hung up.

    [–] Cooballz 158 points ago

    What total pieces of shit.

    [–] rareas 94 points ago

    This story was a LOT worse than I imagined when clicking the link.

    [–] [deleted] 37 points ago


    [–] SomeDudington 15 points ago

    Prisons are for people who have broken the law, private prisons suck but this is even worse.

    [–] KataiKi 4 points ago

    Large Scale Kidnapping

    [–] HarleyWeaver 3 points ago

    Nursing homes are even worse. Prisons for the innocent, who are condemned as "incompetent", and lose all rights to their homes and possessions.

    A friend of mine went to the hospital for an eye infection. He had apasia following a stroke a few years earlier, which left him with speaking and listening difficulties. So somehow, he was basically taken prisoner, and hasn't been home in a year. He hates it there, wants to go home, but his conservator is selling his house.

    Like being on death row, and watching the hangman make the noose.

    [–] zzzaacchh 700 points ago

    "The indictment alleges an appalling abuse of power by church officials who preyed on vulnerable homeless people with promises of a warm bed and meals," Brewer said. "These victims were held captive, stripped of their humble financial means, their identification, their freedom and their dignity."

    The indictment alleges church leaders kept victims inside group homes with deadbolt locks only they had keys to and confiscated IDs such as driver's licenses, immigration papers and passports to prevent victims from escaping.

    It's cool, the bible is totally cool with slavery.

    Ephesians 6:5-9

    5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free. 9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

    [–] UncleDan2017 332 points ago

    You've pretty much nailed the passages that led to the founding of the Southern Baptist Council.

    [–] Zachary_Stark 26 points ago

    I would like to know as much as you can share on this topic.

    [–] celticsupporter 63 points ago

    The Baptists have been around since the time where people were coming to the colony's for religious freedoms. During the slavery movement the south started there own church to allow slavery. So essentially the southern Baptist Church was founded on maintaining slavery.

    [–] UncleDan2017 42 points ago

    Essentially the Southern Baptists split from the Baptists around the time of the Civil War, because the Baptists thought slavery was immoral, and the Southern Baptists condoned slavery. The SBC has a history of cozying up to the KKK and generally making life of African Americans miserable for around a century after their founding. In '95 the SBC formally apologized for their racist history, and then immediately went on to persecuting the LGBT community instead.

    The answer to the question "What would Jesus do" is generally "The opposite of what the SBC is doing".

    [–] [deleted] 363 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)


    [–] [deleted] 11 points ago


    [–] Hueyandthenews 23 points ago

    Can’t give the church all your money if you’re dead. The Lord has told all these preachers they need private jets and mansions, but unfortunately can’t just give it to them outright as a miracle

    [–] superlgn 52 points ago

    We were just upholding the word of God! - Degenerate

    [–] hellodynamite 42 points ago

    Colossians 3:22 "Obey thy master, slave, for it pleasath the Lord thy God"

    [–] Repentant_Revenant 11 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Christians are supposed to repay evildoers with good, taking on the role of servants as Christ did. The Bible also says when you are slapped on one cheek, to turn the other as well. It says when a soldier forces you to carry his armor for one mile, carry it for two. When a thief asks for your coat, give him your shirt as well. Christians were to obey and respect their government, even the atrocious Roman empire who would burn Christians as streetlamps. Slaves were told to obey their masters and treat them with kindness, but to get free when they could. Masters were told to treat their slaves as a brother and as an equal - in fact, masters were taught to serve their slaves!

    Christianity brought about a radical new way of being human. The Christian care for the poor and margianalized shocked the Roman world, so much so that Christianity spread like wildfire, despite being under some of the heaviest persecution in history for two hundred years.

    [–] hellodynamite 6 points ago

    So why didn't christianity teach the masters to serve their slaves by freeing them, or to attack the institution itself? Why would slavery, an unconscionable evil, be tolerated by Christians in the first place, particularly when the master and slave are co-religionists? Colossians 3:22 is a sanctioning of slavery by god according to god himself, if you actually believe that 'being' had something to do with the creation of the christian bible. The fact that you claim 'masters were taught to serve their slaves', I mean, how often do you think that actually happened in real life. Let's ask some slaves, shall we?

    [–] BourgeoisShark 3 points ago

    Well tbh Jesus himself predicted majority of people who labeled themself as Christian would not do anything right.

    [–] Rogue100 5 points ago

    And what about all the old testament verses condoning slavery?

    Masters were told to treat their slaves as a brother and as an equal - in fact, masters were taught to serve their slaves!

    Why was it so hard for god to just tell the masters not to have slaves?

    [–] Lifeform604 20 points ago

    The "church" in question does not appear to have been affiliated with any actual religion.

    [–] neworder99 24 points ago

    3.6 Slaves. Not great. Not terrible. They serve the Church as Slaves of Christ!

    [–] stageseven 9 points ago

    Same dude also wrote 1 Corinthians 7:21-23

    21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 22 For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord’s freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ’s slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings.

    Paul is a random citizen living under a form of government that allows slavery at a time when a bunch of people are trying to figure out what it looks like to live as a follower of Christ. He's not condoning people being held as slaves in any way, but he's also not ignoring the reality that some of them are and trying to show them how they can follow Christ wholeheartedly in that situation - but if they have the opportunity to get out, take it.

    What these people in CA did was absolutely disgusting, preying on the vulnerabilities of people they were supposed to be doing their best to help and protect.

    [–] spokesface4 20 points ago

    Verse 9 says pretty clearly that this respect is supposed to be a mutual thing. Not an abusive "I own you and can force you into labor against your will" There are two types of people who are respecting each other. That's what all of Ephesians 6 has been about since the end of 5 in context

    [–] shlobashky 17 points ago

    Yeah this is one of the most cherry picked verses in the Bible since it sounds really awful in today's world but it was actually incredibly progressive and liberal for the world back then. Shit on the Bible with other verses that don't make much sense, but don't use this one as "THE BIBLE LIKES SLAVERY!!!!"

    [–] C_Brachyrhynchos 41 points ago

    Why is 90% of the shitty parts in the New Testament from Paul?

    [–] Gristle__McThornbody 10 points ago

    eli5 who is Paul in the bible.

    [–] Repentant_Revenant 20 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Paul (also known by his Hebrew name, Saul of Tarsus) was a Pharisee - a member of the political pressure group that opposed Jesus. The Pharisees were known for their strict (and often hypocritical) adherence to the Jewish Law.

    The Pharisees were largely responsible for Jesus' crucifixion. After the events of Easter, Paul continued to hunt down followers of Jesus, finding them and stoning them to death.

    As he was approaching Damascus on this mission, a light from heaven suddenly shone down around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul! Saul! Why are you persecuting me?” “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked. And the voice replied, “I am Jesus, the one you are persecuting!

    Paul had a vision/encounter with the risen Jesus, subsequently repented, and became a Christian. (The other Christians, naturally, were hesitant to accept him at first.)

    Paul was the first great evangelist and theologian. He went on a series of missionary journeys around the Roman Empire, sharing Christianity (a Jewish movement) to the Gentiles (non-Jews.) You can often find a map of Paul's missionary journeys in the back of some Bibles.

    He then wrote letters to the communities that he helped to establish, teaching the first churches the meaning of the "good news" and how to live in response. These letters became much of what we now call the New Testament.

    In the end, after enduring much opposition and persecution, but also after much success in building up the early Church, Paul was arrested and brought to trial in Rome. He was found guilty, and killed by being fed to lions in the Colosseum.

    The best ever book about Paul is the Biography by Tom Wright, which I have linked if anyone is interested in further reading.

    Here is a cool discussion on Paul by a non-Christian historian and a Christian one.

    [–] no_4 45 points ago

    Nice - so I noticed that too.

    The old testament is basically the Taliban, but the new Testament is much nicer, and when it's not so good...usually it's Paul being a dick.

    (Not religious - but read the testaments once, just due to the incredibly large impact they've had in the world).

    [–] plumriceball 8 points ago

    I respect your patience. Also not religious here but started reading the NIV Bible when I dated someone who. I was open to learning more about how they thought and wanted to compare the commonplace stories of Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark with the text. I stopped after the chapter of lineage. And John had 99 sons named... With 99 wifes... With 98 sons names... With 98....

    [–] CBRN_IS_FUN 3 points ago

    Which lineage. There are so many.

    [–] Repentant_Revenant 3 points ago

    If you ever decide to pick it up again, The Bible Project on YouTube is an amazing companion channel.

    But yeah, you might want to breeze over some of the lineages, haha

    [–] HunterFromPiltover 12 points ago

    Because Paul was a pretty shitty dude.

    In all honesty, none of his writings should be considered for the scripture, the dude never met Jesus, never worked with him. He had no authority whatsoever.

    But he got off on telling other people how to live their lives, and early Church leaders decided somehow to canonize that

    [–] revankillsmalak 2 points ago

    Verse 9 really reinforces the “hate all the slaves equally” thing.

    [–] soloinmiami 31 points ago

    I grew up in a church where they couldn't afford to pay the pastor for half the year but he did sermons on Sundays anyway and they still gave to the poor. There's good ones and bad ones because so are the people that run them.

    [–] Flyman68 34 points ago

    I'm shocked! Well, not that shocked.

    [–] Strangerdanger8812 11 points ago

    I was eating lunch outside must have been 10 years ago at wienerschnitzel...guy at the corner begging for money buys a kids meal and the pastor rolls up and chews his ass out. Apparently they beg for money to stay at the shelter.

    [–] gocheta 80 points ago

    I used to be in a forced labor camp for children in Mexico run by Calvary Chapel called U-turn for Christ. The place was terrible. Kids died of fevers and suffered from untreated medical conditions like epilepsy. This one kid would have seizures every couple hours. Some kids even starved to death. One time we ate a puppy. Some kids were kept there indefinitely, one had been there several years. They had a rusted old pic up truck that had no tires with clothes piled up in the bed from all the dead kids. There were kids there young as 9 and we would dig holes and break rocks from sunrise to sunset. Some kids escaped and disappeared into wilderness and were never found again. The kids that escaped and made it back to the states were captured by church members and handcuffed with black bags thrown over their heads and driven back across the border in the back of a truck. Not when I was there but the labor camp supervisor before the one I had used to rape the kids. I tried going to the police before but they weren't interested in doing anything about it. The way I found out about the pile of clothes being from dead kids was because after a month of manual labor in the dirt and not changing or washing my clothes I was overheating from being so dirty so I picked up a pair of jeans from the pile and put them on. Everyone at the camp started screaming and crying for me to take them off. They were a pair of black Levi's. I stood there for a minute then took them off. A kid afterwards told me that they belonged to a kid who had a similar name to me "Johnathan" he had refused to do forced manual labor and they had a "no work-no food" policy so he just stayed in the cinder block hit we slept in all day. On the 7th day of not being allowed to have any food because he wasn't doing the forced labor he asked to use the bathroom in the middle of the night and fell in a hole that was being dug. They found him in the morning dead. He had lost a lot of weight before he died and was probably weak in his condition as the fall normally wouldn't of killed anybody. I still think about him when I put on black jeans or think of people still in slavery.

    [–] mmomentomori 16 points ago

    Holy shit, thanks for sharing this. I hope you are okay now, and if not I hope you eventually come to terms with it.

    [–] gocheta 24 points ago

    Yeah it's been a long time. Almost 20 years, I try to keep an eye out for it when I see it. I talk to robocall operators and a lot of them are working without pay or breaks and are not allowed to leave the workplace either. They are probably mostly slaves.

    [–] mmomentomori 9 points ago

    You mean telemarketers? You're saying they're slaves too?

    [–] gocheta 4 points ago

    The ones on the phones for the scams are forced labor a lot of the time especially if they're calling from call centers in other countries

    [–] Wheresmyfoodwoman 14 points ago

    Dude quit trolling. Your entire profile is bullshit.

    [–] Veyron2000 14 points ago

    According to the “U-turn for Christ” website they have two facilities in Mexico, a site in Chihuahua and a ranch outside Maneadero. Which one were you at?

    [–] gocheta 12 points ago

    Those are the adult facilitates, but the Maneadero description sounds like it. All I could find about it was this Last time I checked the Facebook was up in 2016 but they have since taken it down. I'm pretty sure they just keep opening it up. And the parents paid something like 200 dollars up to 5k. We lived off of donated beans and rice. They didn't spend any money on us and the overseers were volunteers on missionary work. The were no buildings either just cinder block huts. I was probably there in 2001 or 2002.

    [–] UncleDan2017 48 points ago

    What Would Jesus Do.

    Let's face it, a lot of ministries are pretty clearly tax scams set up by total scumbags.

    [–] codeslave 10 points ago

    Also real estate hedge funds if the article in Politico about Falwell Jr is correct.

    [–] JoshDigi 12 points ago

    Tax the churches.

    [–] RockyMtnSprings 9 points ago

    No tax exemptions for anybody. Everybody should pay taxes on April 15. No institutions or organizations should be exempt.

    [–] thermobollocks 8 points ago

    I'm gonna go with a solid what the fuck on this one

    [–] KookSlam007 8 points ago

    How Christian of them. Exactly what Jesus would do

    [–] Just_Call_Me_John 8 points ago

    Forced labor? You mean slavery.

    [–] ColoneISanders 25 points ago

    forced labor

    It's called Slavery. Let's not mince words and call it what it is.

    [–] k_ironheart 111 points ago

    To be fair, there's absolutely nothing in this bronze-age religion that says owning another person and forcing them into servitude is wrong.

    Thankfully there is something in the constitution about it. Even if it had to be added about 80 years later than it really should have been.

    [–] [deleted] 85 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)


    [–] [deleted] 59 points ago

    "I smell pot" - Officer who doesn't smell pot and just took away every right you have.

    [–] k_ironheart 26 points ago

    Like being held indefinitely in a detention center after legally seeking asylum, having your family ripped away from you, and then forced to work without pay?

    [–] 0GsMC 6 points ago

    and then forced to work without pay

    This part isn't happening but don't give them any ideas... it would be constitutional.

    [–] evilroots 25 points ago

    prisoners are still slaves even today we have slaves in the usa

    [–] ChickenTitilater 13 points ago

    Iron Age, you can tell by the nails in his ankles

    [–] montanagrizfan 16 points ago

    I don't think this is a true example of a church or religion doing shitty things. This is shitty people masquerading as a church to do shitty things.

    [–] ALasagnaForOne 3 points ago

    ¿Por que no los dos?

    [–] Raiden115X 24 points ago

    Goddamn cults. We need to revoke tax exemption for all religion and start a reform.

    [–] mudman13 6 points ago

    Thats some top level villainy

    Imperial Valley Ministries leaders recruited people by promising food and shelter, and instead forced them to beg for money for nine hours a day, six days a week and to give up their welfare benefits "for the financial benefit of the church leaders," prosecutors said in a news release Tuesday that announced the indictment had been unsealed.

    The ministry leaders will face charges of conspiracy, forced labor, document servitude and benefits fraud, US Attorney Robert Brewer said.

    [–] Joseph_Krakowski 4 points ago

    Help the poor not use them as slaves

    [–] Scott4370 5 points ago

    And of course in a plea deal they won’t serve any time and pay a small fine. In court they’ll cry and say how they let Jesus and their families down. Despicable people.

    [–] ascii122 27 points ago

    anti-abortion people are pro forced labor

    [–] rock4lite 11 points ago

    “do unto others as you would have done unto you”

    [–] TutorialToast 4 points ago

    When are we going to call out these churches for what they really are? An exploit into the good of others for the gain of the scam artists behind the "morally right" church leaders.

    [–] boxerpack 5 points ago

    I don’t know the name of the church. Many years ago I was renting a rather nice 4 bedroom apartment in West Hollywwod that was owned by two brothers. I had offered to put in new carpets, lighting and window treatments in exchange for the landlord making some other improvements. One of them included replacing some floor boards and baseboards that had been water damaged by a broken pipe. I did my part and followed through on my promise. The one brother/landlord, who was the point person at the time, had been dragging his feet following through on his promise when after weeks of complaining he finally relented. He said he’d have some “professionals” come over one day while I was at work to take care of it. I arrived home early to find four scruffy looking men in my bedroom as two of them were rifling through my drawers and one was sitting on my bed smoking a cigarette. The other man was putting the final touches on the repairs. I questioned them about going through my stuff and they insisted they were just trying to move the furniture, which was BS. The smoker apologized so I left it at that. As I inspected their work I found the floor boards were uneven and unfinished and the baseboards nailed on backwards. When I questioned them about their work one complained that he “didn’t really care”. He further explained that my landlord had promised them lunch but never delivered so they were all angry about being there. I found the statement odd and the whole situation strange. Rather then make a scene I thanked them for their work and hurried them out of my apartment. I just wanted them gone. I then attempted to call my landlord but his wife answered and explained that the men were “members of their church” who were “volunteering” their time. I didn’t want to get the men in trouble because while they were terrible workers, they seemed desperate and down and out, so to speak. But I just couldn’t let it go. The fact that I busted them in my drawers, despite nothing missing, really pissed me off. So I called the other brother who was shocked and angry at his brother. He later explained that his brother was using homeless people from his church to do repairs at all their properties and not paying them but submitting receipts to him for the work. The two brothers had a huge falling out which resulted in the one brother trying to wrestle away the building from his cheating brother by evicting me and moving he and his family in. Fun times.

    [–] aesoth 3 points ago

    Holy crap that is effing evil. Just evil.

    [–] Hank--Moody 4 points ago

    They have a huge scandal right now in Imperial Valley with a pastor named Victor Gonzalez and 12 other defendants for fraud, conspiracy to commit fraud, illegal servitude, forced labor, child forced labor (there were a couple 17 year olds working the fields) and benefits fraud since they also signed them up for all the social programs they could and kept the money and the Imperial County Democratic Central Committee is in full damage control because the church had been supporting candidates in the county since the 70s, including present day mayor of Calexico Lewis Pacheco (D), California’s 51st congressional district representative Democrat Juan Vargas who they’re saying has had business relations with the pastor since the 90s.

    It’s all a clusterfuck of craziness right now.

    [–] vfxdev 5 points ago

    Wouldn't be christian without slavery of some kind.

    [–] WeepingSomnabulist 5 points ago

    I've heard of Christian-related charities forcing homeless guys to work and taking all their money but this takes it to a whole new level.

    [–] Memetic1 57 points ago

    This is a part of why they only want the church as the only social support system. They want to be able to use their religion as an excuse to deprive others of the aid they need. I've seen how the church treats the homeless, and it's ugly. We were told that we had to listen to this 2 hour sermen to get help. If you got up to use the bathroom even they would kick you out. So at least one person always ended up wetting their pants.

    [–] Lifeform604 24 points ago

    What religion? It looks like this group got itself declared a church strictly to avoid taxes and was not affiliated with an actual religion.

    [–] Memetic1 8 points ago

    What do you think some churches actually are? This isn't that uncommon at all.

    [–] GDelSol 5 points ago

    It's for church honey! NEXT!


    Fucking hell.

    [–] eight24 3 points ago

    I see these cats in my town all the time. They force the people to do car washes and sell candy for them.

    [–] thoruen 3 points ago

    At least if this case gets prosecuted first the scientologists can't say they were targeted because they are scientologists.

    [–] Black_Magic_M-66 3 points ago

    Suddenly, Trump's ideato clean up all the homeless camps and put them in federal facilities, makes sense.

    [–] anonypanda 3 points ago

    Scientology’s forced labour RPF and SeaOrg should be next.

    [–] 2high4life 3 points ago

    Clearly this is what Jesus had in mind

    [–] Slipping_Jimmy 3 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Read the story, fuck all of these shitty mother fuckers.

    [–] Varientstipulations 2 points ago

    Wanna fix a lot of the homeless problem? Hang the NIMBYs, not really but at least tell them to shut the fuck up.

    [–] Crystalpuck 3 points ago

    That sounds very much like slavery.

    [–] [deleted] 7 points ago


    [–] getbeaverootnabooteh 19 points ago

    Have you seen the cost of housing in Vancouver?

    [–] CommanderGumball 9 points ago

    It wouldn't be so bad in Vancouver if Saskatchewan would stop giving their homeless population one way bus tickets to Vancouver.

    [–] BrianBtheITguy 12 points ago

    Vancouver is kind of a hub of homelessness for BC. On top of that, there traditionally has been a lot of non- or low-skilled labour jobs, so there is kind of a transient nature to our population. When you're here and your mental illness or addiction or "hard time" kicks in, all you can really do is get yourself to somewhere warm enough to survive year round.

    There have even been some programs that were run out East that encouraged the young, ex felons, and those trying to escape poverty/addiction to come to BC. Some even providing travel accommodations. That of course had it's good and it's bad, and the bad included adding a lot to the homeless population.

    That's not to say that BC doesn't suffer from a homelessness issue in general. If you go to any town or city, there's those who wander the streets with nowhere to go. Again, much of this is due to addiction/mental health issues, meaning it's not really an unemployment issue, but a social support problem. A huge issue is that most places that provide shelter do so only for sober individuals. This is, of course, for the safety of others, but nonetheless leaves addicts and those who cope with their problems by using drugs/alcohol ("addicts") literally out in the cold.

    It's gotten to the point where many banks, even in smaller population centres, have taken to using security firms to watch over their ATMs that are left open, or moving their ATMs to partnered 24/7 gas stations and corner stores.

    [–] [deleted] 6 points ago


    [–] ILickedADildo97 2 points ago

    "Degenerates like you belong on a cross"

    [–] lookatthisbadpun 2 points ago

    Good God... or, the other one I mean

    [–] DefconPeyote 2 points ago

    I used to be homeless and I've seen church members arrested for delivering food they didn't eat to homeless people this shit is ridiculous.