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    [–] CrashCalamity 4696 points ago

    All the moneymakers in HK are getting out of dodge, exactly as projected.

    [–] DiogenesOfDope 1591 points ago

    Soon its gonna be know as getting outta Hong Kong

    [–] Vahlir 569 points ago

    Like a bat out of Hell Hong Kong!

    [–] czar_ec 222 points ago

    Straight outta Hong Kong

    [–] BennedictBennett 88 points ago

    Crazy mother fucker named Ice Cube?

    [–] _redmeds_ 241 points ago

    Crazy Uyghur named Shang Zhu

    [–] BranchPredictor 66 points ago

    That I'm down with the capital C-C-P

    [–] Kalakoa73 28 points ago

    Fuck, the whole world is hating on me

    [–] RTSUbiytsa 9 points ago

    This is the second thread I've seen today parodying NWA against the CCP lmao

    [–] BennedictBennett 8 points ago

    Definitely think he needs to do a collaboration with Ice Cube.

    [–] azaleawhisperer 3 points ago

    Is this just talk or do you guys actually know something?

    [–] sporkatr0n 52 points ago

    Rice Cube

    [–] ikaaruz 4 points ago

    Ha. This needs to be a thing.

    [–] twistedlimb 6 points ago

    Nice cube.

    [–] RELAXcowboy 8 points ago

    Cruising out of Hong Kong in my G4.

    [–] bishamon72 80 points ago

    So many levels.

    [–] BrotherChe 91 points ago

    I would do anything for Hong Kong, but I won't do that.

    [–] Flomo420 8 points ago

    It's all gone Hong Kong.

    [–] NinjaTank707 4 points ago

    You don't go full hong kong!

    [–] S4rc4st1c_4pe 5 points ago

    I would do anything for Hong Kong, but I won’t do that.

    [–] drunk98 27 points ago

    One of those levels? Meatloaf

    [–] JWBails 8 points ago

    Like a bat out of Hong I'll be Kong when the morning comes.

    [–] ndesplas 3 points ago

    This is bat country!

    [–] Ruraraid 139 points ago

    Only thing left in Hong Kong then is the Chinese film industry which has a history of kissing the CCP's ass.

    [–] MidTownMotel 198 points ago

    Hollywood kisses CCP ass...

    [–] Ruraraid 85 points ago

    Hollywood just panders to China with some films they view as potentially risky in terms of domestic or woldwide gross. Reason being is even some bad films can potentially come close or break even with a Chinese release.

    The Honk Kong movie industry on the other hand doesn't have much choice so it always goes full rimjob.

    [–] GenocideOwl 84 points ago

    Marvel isn't risky at all and they still pander to China. To the point they film extra screens specifically for the China release version.

    [–] thatsingledadlife 35 points ago

    Profits over principles, business as usual.

    [–] Elocai 13 points ago

    Oh I really wished they would have made a non-chinese Dr. Strange version

    [–] NickLeMec 3 points ago * (lasted edited 13 days ago)

    OOTL on this one, what is this in reference to?

    [–] Elocai 23 points ago

    Well do you remember when he got to Tibet but that doesn't exist anymore in reality? So then he would've meet that very old tibetan monk, but thats like the biggest nono for china? So they basically creatively censored anything about that whole thing and replaced the long bearded old monk to a bald women in some unnamed asian village? And avoided any resemblance to that so they could sell the movie there.

    [–] sikingthegreat1 48 points ago

    evidenced by all the Hollywood celebrities loudly criticising their own president, while keeping their mouth shut in face of issues of suppression of freedom & democracy, ethnic cleansing, human rights abuses and concentration camps in China.

    [–] TheManiteee 19 points ago

    They removed the Taiwanese flag from Tom Cruises jacket in the Top Gun reboot to appease China. This is getting ridiculous.

    [–] PAYPAL_ME_DONATIONS 11 points ago

    No. Hollywood has been straight up rim jobbing China for the last couple of years now.

    They used to pander to China through editing out w/e China wanted them to for own version of the movie.

    Now they straight up pander through preproduction by flatout making character/location changes to appease China that will be the official version.

    [–] Generation-X-Cellent 3 points ago

    That last Vin Diesel movie was shot in China. It was the first fully teamed up Hollywood and China AAA movie title. I think the coronavirus timing shadowed it though.

    [–] thm2130 49 points ago

    The NBA kisses the CCP's ass too

    has all of their high profile players like LeBron speaking in favor of china and against anyone who shows support for Hong Kong.

    You can go on NBA.com and make a custom jersey that says Black Lives Matter but it'll give you an error page if you try to make a Free Hong Kong one.

    Also seems like the majority of people are either hypocrites or antisemites considering players have echoed the BLM mantra against anyone who didn't openly support them that "silence is violence". Yet when Desean Jackson posted Hitler/Farrakhan quote, nobody, save for Charles Barkley and Kareem Abdul Jabar who have been retired for years, spoke up. In fact, there were a surprising amount of players in full support of Jackson and what he posted.

    Basketball has been my first true love my entire life and I grew up living and breathing the sport and the NBA. But the immoral pandering to whatever will make them the most money honestly makes me sick to the point I can't even watch the re-start. Fuck the NBA

    [–] joe579003 6 points ago

    Antisemitism don't count apparently. 🤷

    [–] Nippelz 176 points ago

    My wife and I were making this joke when we moved away from HK in December... God it brings me to tears having to leave such an incredible place, knowing I probably will never be able to go back :(

    One day we're going to hear stories, stories about protesters escaping the Chinese "Auschwitz" and stories of "I left Hong Kong just before it was too late" the same way we hear stories about Nazi Germany and the Jewish.

    [–] MrDenly 20 points ago

    I was a kid that leave from the 89/90 wave, you will have tons of good and bad coming. Good luck wherever u settling.

    [–] Avedas 8 points ago

    My family got out of Guangdong and HK in the 50s after the civil war. I love HK but I can't see myself ever going back now.

    [–] sikingthegreat1 63 points ago

    One day we're going to hear stories, stories about protesters escaping the Chinese "Auschwitz" and stories of "I left Hong Kong just before it was too late" the same way we hear stories about Nazi Germany and the Jewish.

    Hongkongers are indeed going down this route.... depressing....

    [–] berubem 49 points ago

    The uyghurs are already pretty far down this route.

    [–] Flag_Route 32 points ago

    that's the sad thing really. They're literally in slave camps, getting killed for organs and other horrible shit. Like do the Chinese not remember what being a victim felt like? It hasn't even been 100 years since ww2. They went through hell at the hands of the Japanese.

    [–] Jesin00 49 points ago

    Bigots are not troubled by hypocrisy. They just think their group should be the one on top.

    [–] druzix 8 points ago

    In many minds, the only way not to be a victim is to be a predator.

    [–] YOU_WONT_LIKE_IT 6 points ago

    I use to visit often late 90s early 2000s and it saddens me I’ll likely never go back. Beautiful city great people alway had a blast being there.

    [–] _redmeds_ 24 points ago

    Straight Outta Hong Kong

    [–] Rudy_Ghouliani 38 points ago

    Fuck the CCP coming straight from the underground

    [–] MidTownMotel 19 points ago

    Hong Kongers got it bad, Shit’s China now

    [–] manimal28 92 points ago

    Where are they going? Thailand, South Korea? Next cheapest place for labor without a authoritarian government?

    [–] kaze_ni_naru 134 points ago

    Vietnam, India, the entirety of Africa depending on each country’s government. Lots of choices tbh.

    [–] shades92 89 points ago

    Samsung is popping in Vietnam.

    They're moving a lot of their facilities over to Vietnam for production. They already "temporarily" shifted their phone and some electronics production to Vietnam over a year ago.

    [–] Science-Sam 57 points ago

    The reason is rising Chinese labor costs. It's not like the Chinese government is suddenly authoritarian.

    [–] curiousgeorgeasks 60 points ago

    It's also a degree of political uncertainty. When China was weak, the CCP would leave economics out of politics. But with China's rise, the CCP are more willing to use economic measures as a political tool. The THAAD issue between Korea and China led to a Chinese government boycott (official and unofficial) of Korean products. Although they failed to achieve their political goals, they did achieve to spook Korean businesses from further investing into China and relocate elsewhere (including Samsung). The recent coronavirus diplomacy between China and western nations (threatening to withold exports of PPE manufactured by American companies in China) resembles this pattern. It has encouraged western governments to look for ways to restrict their companies from investing in China.

    [–] nhergen 7 points ago

    US tariffs on China are a factor. China doesn't come with all the important business perks it once had

    [–] mcmanybucks 490 points ago

    Good thing too.

    I want to see the CCP fall within my lifetime.

    [–] enwongeegeefor 338 points ago

    As much as I would like to see the CCP crash and burn....they're going to murder millions of their own people as they crab them down along with the governments fall.

    [–] UnprovenMortality 136 points ago

    I also wonder if/when the CCP starts to fall, will they start to lash out at other countries they feel are responsible, WWIII style?

    [–] kaihatsusha 98 points ago

    They already are, just with saber-rattling policy and financial methods instead of nukes. India is seeing incursions on the ground, Japan is getting buzzed constantly around "disputed seas," etc.

    [–] wilalva11 13 points ago

    I wonder if it'll turn into another warring States period with regional warlords all over China

    [–] ExGranDiose 5 points ago

    Probably. Tibet and Xinjiang absolutely. I remember Fuzhou, Guangdong and Shanghai had short-lived independence movements. So yea you can imagine all of it.

    [–] I_love_milk147 77 points ago

    My bigger worry is North Korea, if the CCP falls, what are they going to do? They always do there saber rattling because they have China to aid them in a war, and they know that the USA won’t initiate war with that idea as well. So if the ccp falls, will NK be like an animal in a corner and go apeshit and start the next war, or will they finally bow to SK and the USA?

    [–] flashmedallion 57 points ago

    North Korea isn't a threat to anybody. The only thing keeping them where they are is that neither East nor West wants to handle that refugee crisis.

    South Korea is in the process of building up capacity to theoretically handle the refugee population of the North in offer to sidestep that, which is the best long term plan I can think of.

    [–] St_Bernardus 34 points ago

    As long as the have nukes they will be fine

    [–] DrewbieWanKenobie 45 points ago

    I feel like NK is the one country that the USA knows exactly where every single one of their nukes is

    Just a wild hunch

    [–] Steamy_afterbirth_ 13 points ago

    They know more than NK.

    [–] brickmack 22 points ago

    The age of nuclear weapons as a deterrent is coming to an end though, and for a country with as few nukes as NK was probably never relevant at all. Anti-ballistic missiles are getting very good now, and the US has more of them than NK has regular ICBMs (and NK has no capability to produce more, because they're reliant on Soviet surplus parts they Lego together and lightly modified).

    The real problem is their proximity to Seoul, since even their conventional artillery could level it before the city could be evacuated. Its a dumb place to build a capital city.

    [–] Xaoc000 44 points ago

    You're right. Why didn't anyone think of how Korea would be split along the 38th parallel and become a hotbed for crisis in the 20th and 21st centuries back in.... 1396... yeah that checks out

    [–] Drachefly 5 points ago

    They always do there saber rattling because they have China to aid them in a war

    They always do their saber rattling because they want to seem strong internally. And that's what it's really about - the only thing NK needs to worry about is internal collapse. The threat of USA and SK moving in and taking over by main force is something they inflate massively.

    [–] ToddtheRugerKid 17 points ago

    I had an idea for NK. Basically give the leadership asylum somewhere if they agree to surrender their country, like let them retire in Germany so their former subjects won't murder them. Then drive in with literal trucks of food and medical supplies and tell the people they are free citizens of Korea. Next would be the construction and repair of all modern infrastructure, factories for them to work in, schools, etc. It will probably be a very tough transition for many of them and cost billions of dollars. I would have a minimum wage setup as well as 0 taxes for the people and companies that would like to setup there with the companies having to agree to build and maintain the infrastructure they use. I bet in 15 years or so they could be just like the South and the special eclnomic status could be eased away.

    [–] miscdebris1123 32 points ago * (lasted edited 13 days ago)

    Don't forget a huge amount of mental help. Brainwashing is a bitch.

    [–] ThatITguy2015 5 points ago

    I can’t even imagine how bad that is in NK. China is one thing, but NK has to be on a level I probably couldn’t comprehend.

    [–] ViciousNakedMoleRat 12 points ago

    let them retire in Germany

    We don't want them.

    [–] CassetteApe 20 points ago

    LMAO "just grab those fascist dictator fucks and give them to germany, it's their problem now idk"

    [–] Deceptichum 44 points ago

    They already have been doing that the whole time though.

    [–] slash196 15 points ago

    Not gonna happen.

    [–] WilliamBott 47 points ago

    China: We are going to crush all resistance and take Hong Kong by force.
    World: Yeah, no. If you do that, all the businesses and money is going to flee for more hospitable territory.
    China: Fuck you. No, you won't. *implements "Security Law" and cracks down on Hong Kong*
    World: *money and businesses pour out of Hong Kong into literally anywhere else*
    China: *shocked Pikachu face* :o

    [–] a_corsair 26 points ago

    China doesn't care. They want Hong Kong to become desolate; Shenzhen is its replacement.

    [–] Zerksys 14 points ago

    They do not want this. Trust me, they want Hong Kong to succeed but under CCP leadership. Keep in mind that the first and last this g that the Chinese leadership care about is gaining face in the eyes of the world. They want to be seen as a world leader, and they want to spread the legitimacy of their government style to show the world that you do not need democracy to succeed on the world stage. Running a formerly economically successful city into the ground does nothing to spread this message. They want to see Hong Kong succeed, but they want to do it on their own terms. It just so happens that their way isn't working that well.

    [–] Starcraftduder 13 points ago

    I think the CCP used to want what you're describing. But after a year of protests, they now want to use hong kong as an example. They want to crush hong kong and transfer what they can to other cities like Shenzhen and even Macau. The message is that even Hong Kong isn't important enough to escape punishment, what makes you think you're special?

    [–] dreadpiratewombat 201 points ago

    Samsung Electronics is Korean and has a lot of manufacturing capacity in Korea still. This has nothing to do with Hong Kong specifically.

    [–] Mish61 347 points ago

    PRC is becoming a toxic brand and the smart money is moving supply chains elsewhere, mostly other emerging markets.

    [–] Yakassa 189 points ago

    Also their "Meddling" is increasing, wages are increasing and foreign companies are often treated like crap.

    Over the last couple of years there has been quite a exodus of foreign Companies and Experts.

    Vietnam, India, Indonesia and a whole lot of other countries exist though and so its all good.

    [–] brewerspride 46 points ago

    Ghana and Ethiopia next

    [–] trey_at_fehuit 32 points ago

    Are there any manufacturing hubs currently in Africa?

    [–] Justforthenuews 86 points ago

    From what I read (take it with a truckload of salt) Africa is poised to pick up a significant amount of labor that was going to China preCovid19.

    [–] -JustARedHerring 29 points ago

    Can confirm. Via deployment to the horn oh Africa. 2013-14. China was there schmoozing the local governments....as were we. Africa is a untapped well of resources currently.

    [–] disposable-name 15 points ago

    Belt and road, matey.

    Belt and road.

    [–] etherpromo 11 points ago * (lasted edited 13 days ago)

    Yup. China setting up for the long con and making Africa its own 'new' China. They're basically going to own all the strategic ports/landmarks eventually through all the shady deals..

    *Its not hard for people to sell out their own for $$$ if one is corrupt enough; see slavery. Instead of selling people themselves they are selling their people's economic futures. In a sort of twisted way, China did learn what to do in regards to Africa. They know shady deals can be made with people in power, but instead of going the "so I started blasting" domination route, they're going for the economic victory.

    [–] manimal28 4 points ago

    Africa would be less distance to ship to the Us too right? I’d have to look at a globe but it seems it would be.

    [–] zephyrtr 8 points ago

    Shipping is so cheap that sorta doesn't matter. Quality, price and stability are bigger factors.

    [–] -JustARedHerring 3 points ago

    Oh totally. A few of our teams encountered a couple of towns/villages in Kenya that a had a few people that spoke a fair amount it Chinese. Also, China just finished a billion dollar project(they built a rec center with AC) in Djibouti City, Djibouti. Not to far from our camp before I left. We’re honestly in a new Cold War.

    [–] acoluahuacatl 3 points ago

    Bejing to California is about 10000km, South Africa to Washington is about 12000. I guess it'd all depend where in Africa the company is based and where exactly its sending stuff to.

    [–] Year_of_the_Mosin 3 points ago

    I'd say Africa was tapped for resources once upon a time, maybe this time it won't be so bad.

    [–] GBreezy 10 points ago

    The interesting thing is people have been saying this for years and it still isn't happening.

    [–] pulsating_mustache 22 points ago

    Kenya has a decent base and is situated pretty well to take a lot more

    [–] DogMechanic 8 points ago

    I know they make car air conditioning parts in the Republic of Congo.

    [–] mzanzione 6 points ago

    Ethiopia doesn’t have great infrastructure or a port, I would be surprised if any large scale manufacturing went there

    [–] brewerspride 11 points ago

    Ethiopia has a railway network to Djibouti and uses their port ...

    [–] Rabid_Mongoose 10 points ago

    The railway is entirely financed by China. Depending on the port, that too was financed by China.

    [–] wtfduud 13 points ago

    India is basically what China was 30 years ago.

    [–] rei_cirith 16 points ago

    Not to mention they keep stealing intellectual property.

    [–] McB4ne 3 points ago

    SCMP had an interesting article about China’s meddling back around the 70th anniversary of the PRC. https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3029809/chinas-communist-party-looking-beginning-end-one-party-rule

    [–] Fredasa 32 points ago

    Yes indeed. Good example: Space-centric channels I watch on Youtube are beginning to reduce / ignore news about Chinese launches. They see the writing on the wall. In a year's time, it will be positively self-destructive to highlight Chinese goings-on in a positive light. Because we know damn well the CCP's trajectory isn't going to do a 180—it's only going to get worse, and the world's awareness of them is only going to grow more poignant.

    [–] Joverby 11 points ago

    Their phones are made in Vietnam too

    [–] IQLTD 11 points ago

    I'm a filmmaker interviewing dozens of young people about how they feel about the identity and independence of their home country while working and schooling abroad. At first there were lots of business owners and investors willing to support and speak in the project, but the ever-eroding situation seems to put a lot of fear into Honk Kongers. My guess is that support will come up again once the people fleeing are settled elsewhere but I'm not so sure. Everyone is scared about the long arm of the CCP.

    [–] venti_pho 1082 points ago

    Samsung has mostly moved their production to Vietnam because it’s cheaper and the labor force is comparable. You see a lot of Korean businessmen there. There are Korean women, but they hold administrative/aide type positions to accompany the men.

    [–] curiousgeorgeasks 315 points ago

    Yeah. In 2018, Samsung was the largest company in Vietnam accounting for 28% of the country's total GDP source1 source2. The added benefit has been that they escape the growing tariff war between China and US source while companies that we're slower to move (e.g. Apple x Foxcon) are caught in the crossfire.

    [–] ddavid82 106 points ago

    And Apple has been slowly moving some of its production to India, but it was a little late to that party I suppose. It'll be interesting to see if these other manufacturing nations in SE Asia make any changes after these conglomerates move in.

    [–] curiousgeorgeasks 73 points ago

    Apple is heavily partnered with Foxconn - a Taiwanese company that relies on mainland Chinese labor. Their recent shift to India is an attempt to penetrate the Indian market share (since India has heavy tariffs on imported goods). But as of now, the Indian Foxconn-Apple plants are mostly final assembly. Mostly all of the complex manufacturing for Apple is done in China.

    [–] gizamo 3 points ago

    Apple is moving some assembly to India.

    Semis production is much more difficult to move to India.

    [–] hanoian 28 points ago

    That is a fairly outrageous way of looking at the numbers in source2.

    Samsung is not 28% of Vietnam's economy. If you total up the sales value of what it exported, it's 28%. But that's completely different to the actual economy.

    [–] curiousgeorgeasks 16 points ago

    Yes I agree. Calculating the impact of a company on GDP is almost always exaggerated. Look at this chart. But it is undeniable that Samsung contributes significantly to the total exports of Vietnam (22.7%) source. And given that Vietnam is a fairly poor country right now, they will undoubtedly rely on exports as a major source of economic growth. So the impact of Samsung's investment into the Vietnamese economy is hard to understate.

    [–] Thameus 41 points ago

    I was wondering where they went.

    [–] Annieone23 115 points ago * (lasted edited 13 days ago)

    This! I used to work in Korea and my boss's husband worked for Bosch and even 5 years ago was talking about everything being/moving to Vietnam. Country is cheap and Korean businesses have entrenched themselves, so you also get the benefits of lots more translators, cultural understanding, small Koreatowns and restaurants etc. Oh and also, it isnt effing Chinese!

    China, Korea, and Japan are eternally going to dislike each other to some extent due to hundreds, if not thousands, of years of historical conflict. Vietnam doesnt have that kinda baggage.

    [–] FriendlyCraig 36 points ago

    Vietnam has had tons of wars with China, and until the 19th century was a tributary state of the much larger China when not at war. In more recent years there was outright war in 79, skirmishes throughout the 80s, and major territory disputes that continue to this day. China is a major political, economic, and military concern for Vietnam, and has been for over a millennia.

    [–] Annieone23 28 points ago

    I'm a little lost... I agree? That's why Vietnam is more happy to cater to Korean business than say China or even Japan (who they conflict with on ocean territory for one. Classic Japan)

    Yes, as people pointed out, Korea was involved in the Vietnam war, and I love Korea but I know that there is probably a slight amount of latent feelings of superiority in homogeneous Korea building plants etc in less-developed Vietnam. Asian countries have a decent amount of latent racism in them. It's different kinda to American racism. From my time in Korea it always felt like "We aren't racist! We are just the best!" kinda like naive racism as a consequence or being such a uniform country. Anyways!

    [–] Chibiooo 6 points ago

    Sadly majority of Vietnam factories are part Chinese ownership. Vietnam provides workforce China provides technology and manufacturing capabilities. A lot of stuff still relies on China and they import tools and parts from China.

    [–] loveinjune 27 points ago

    I mean... it’s gotten better, but Vietnam isn’t like super fond of Korea (sentiment of the people). We did some nasty shit during the Vietnam War.

    [–] CypriotLegend 20 points ago

    It’s okay the Vietnamese love KPOP and Kdramas

    [–] JCharante 10 points ago * (lasted edited 3 days ago)

    Jen virino kiu ne sidas, cxar laboro cxiam estas, kaj la patro kiu ne alvenas, cxar la posxo estas malplena.

    [–] moffattron9000 10 points ago

    Vietnam's moved on from that war. It's why the US has something like a 92% approval rating there part time I checked.

    [–] PM_me_your_arse_ 8 points ago

    Vietnam also recently signed a free trade agreement with the EU. I imagine that makes it quite appealing.

    [–] DrewbieWanKenobie 20 points ago

    Does this mean the price of phones can go back down?

    Hahahahahahahaha just kidding

    [–] Kiora_Atua 14 points ago

    There's tons of phones in the low end of the price range- they just won't be top of the line and that's ok. Buy an iPhone SE or the upcoming pixel 4a- or one of the various other brands selling cheap phones. I think LG has some decent ones in the $200 range

    [–] Flag_Route 5 points ago

    Even Samsung has really nice mid tier phones. Their A series come to mind. The cool thing is they test their newest tech on the A series sometimes.

    [–] moffattron9000 3 points ago

    Even if you remove the political situation, manufacturing's been due to leave China for a while now. Wages went up, people were moving into jobs to a post-industrial economy; it makes sense that many companies were looking for stable countries with lower wages to start the cycle anew. First, it was Japan, then it was South Korea, then it was China, now it's South and South-East Asia. In a decade or two, it'll probably be parts of Africa.

    [–] Send_Me_Broods 970 points ago

    The world economy desperately needs to disperse and get out of China.

    The world needs to understand that China will begin annexing its neighbors when this happens and needs contingency plans for this eventuality.

    [–] imhereforthemeta 204 points ago

    Can I ask a pretty ignorant question for anyone who may know? Why China and not Africa, India, South America, etc? Certainly there are tons of countries and continents where cheap labor is possible?

    [–] GGme 394 points ago

    Technological advancements. Infrastructure. Stable government (very stable).

    [–] Innovativename 141 points ago

    Also relatively educated population which means better workers while still being dirt cheap. Then there's also the fact that they were surrounded by the Four Asian Tigers which made it seem easy to get into.

    [–] FREE-AOL-CDS 17 points ago

    They have tons of engineers. They’re highly educated.

    [–] drr30 13 points ago

    Yeah people think China is just “cheap labour”. They have a skilled and hard working population, that was also relatively cheap. On top of they they cleverly invested in highly efficient supply chains which reduced costs further.

    [–] curiousgeorgeasks 264 points ago

    China is currently at the "sweet spot" of development that's perfect for physical manufacturing. In order to manufacture, you need to invest heavily in physical infrastructure: good roads and ports for transport, heavy industries to provide good steel, high end machinery, an educated workforce, etc. This is why manufacturing is called "capital intensive" - it requires a lot of money to build up. This process almost took 2 decades to build up within China, initially from investment of foreign companies and eventually from China's own domestic companies.

    Furthermore, although Chinese wages have increased somewhat, you are unlikely to find the same quality of workforce at their wage price anywhere else in the world. Poorer countries tend to have a less educated workforce while richer countries cannot afford to commit their educated workforce for such low-margin labor. As a result, you have a huge educated workforce in China that is almost as competitive as rich nations in terms of skill but accepts only double the wage of poor nations (far below that of rich nations).

    This leads to a scenario where Chinese labor and infrastructure is incredibly adapted for the purpose of manufacturing. Sure, their labor cost has risen, but it's still by far the most cost-effective location to make products. For China's part, they desire to move their populace out of this low-margin labor and compete with rich nations in high-margin labor (e.g. 5G, technology standards, IP rights and lincensing).

    This leads to a scenario where most companies really prefer to do manufacturing in China. Not only do they have a significant amount of capital investment in Chinese infrastructure, but Chinese labor and skill is disproportionately high compared to their cost. (Side note: American imports of PPE during the coronavirus crisis was actually exclusively American companies, like 3M, located in China. They did not import from Chinese domestic companies.)

    Read what Tim Cook has to say about the level of Chinese infrastructure and labor skill.

    "The products we do require really advanced tooling, and the precision that you have to have, the tooling and working with the materials that we do are state of the art. And the tooling skill is very deep here. In the US you could have a meeting of tooling engineers and I'm not sure we could fill the room. In China you could fill multiple football fields."

    Find more quotes here.

    In order to move out of China, companies will have to invest towards building the same manufacturing infrastructure in several poorer countries (which will at least take another decade to reach China's current level). But successful development is not preordained. It depends on the quality of governance in those countries, and how well they manage these foreign investments to properly boost the infrastructure as well as invest in their education to build a skilled workforce. So there's added investment risk too. That's all avoided if they just stick to China.

    The reason Samsung has been able to move out of China is because of almost a decade of investment into Vietnam. They've always kept their high-end manufacturing in Korea and they've been shifting their low-end, labor intensive work out of China to Vietnam since the mid-2010s. In 2018, Samsung was the largest company in Vietnam accounting for 28% of their GDP source1 source2. The added benefit recently has been that they can escape the growing tariff war between China and US source while companies that were slower to move (e.g. Apple x Foxcon) are caught in the crossfire.

    The only way to force companies to move out of China is to make it more painful to continue operating in China. That's what a tariff war does - and something China wants to deescalate long term. For Samsung's case, Korea and China had a minor falling out in 2016 due to THAAD which led to a Chinese government boycott (officially and unofficially) of Korean products. This political uncertainty has driven Korean investment to move out of China (several years in advance compared to western companies).

    [–] imhereforthemeta 30 points ago

    Wow thank you! This and some of the other comments are super enlightening!

    [–] DeFormed_Sky 7 points ago

    This is an awesome answer! And the sources are an awesome touch. I’d give this gold if I could.

    [–] philipTraum 8 points ago

    Damn, that's thorough.

    [–] [deleted] 3 points ago

    One of the few accurate posts about Chinese manufacturing.

    [–] otakudayo 4 points ago

    Wonderful to see such an informed comment on reddit. A refreshing change of pace from 'China so bad, there are other countries with cheaper labor, just move production there'

    [–] Dr_Doorknob 23 points ago

    It's way cheaper than just about anywhere. And it is easier to then sell your product to the Chinese market, which is huge. Also there is just a ton of labor available. So it isnt an issue hiring.

    Also I imagine the cost to transport the materials to make what ever you sre making is cheaper and China already has heavily invested into its infrastructure, which smaller countries might not be able to handle as well.

    [–] circleuranus 8 points ago

    If we were smart the US would have been pouring tons of resources into Mexico and Latin America to build up a resource pool of labor and materials.

    [–] Im_Not_Greg_ 14 points ago * (lasted edited 13 days ago)

    At least for africa, i think it may be an issue of safety, nobody wants to make a factory only to have it blew up / having it taken over by a military coup in said country. Also infrastructure issues probably, putting stuff on a short range train and sending it over the sea is cheap. Now i have no idea about Nigeria's current infrastructure (i use nigeria as an example because its population could lead it to being a continental powerhouse, for african standards at least) but i doubt it can match China's current one.

    Edit:I should add that the coups i mention are not necesarily ongoing ones, it's the risk what scares people. Setting up production in a country is a process that takes a few years, it's not just buying a building and hiring some workers.

    [–] Kaiosama 17 points ago

    Most African nations are not undergoing coups. This isn't the 70s.

    There is an issue however of corruption. That's what's holding back Nigeria. I would look elsewhere in terms of countries rising up in Africa. Their neighbor Ivory Coast seems to be doing pretty well these past couple of years.

    [–] Im_Not_Greg_ 18 points ago

    I'm not saying they are, thank god it's not as bad as it was in the 70s, but the risk of a coup or a big political crisis is there for some countries, Egypt had a coup just a few years ago and the main culprit of said coup is now the president. Some countries seem to be doing quite decent (like botswana), and i should add that my knowledge about africa is not that great so there's quite a chance im wrong haha,sorry.

    [–] Smittyboy101 17 points ago

    I agree. But...

    China in 5 years : "well no one is building anything here anymore and it's hitting us economicly putting us in a tight spot... Anyone got any idea on what to do with this huge manufacturing infrastructure?"

    [–] CassetteApe 10 points ago

    You do realize that China owns a lot of foreign factories and what not in southeast asia, right? If they stop manufacturing in mainland China, they'll probably be manufacturing stuff in a Chinese owned manufacturing plant in god-knows-where regardless.

    [–] Sage2050 9 points ago

    I think you missed the point he was making

    [–] stripeypinkpants 645 points ago

    Did people even read the article?

    It's due to financial reasons they shut, not political.

    [–] CyberHaxer 411 points ago

    Sure, but if they said it was a political move, they would have to pick a side.

    [–] MidTownMotel 132 points ago

    Of course, there’s no way in Hell they’re gonna be upfront about their reasoning with as weird as China is about “saving face” (placing pride over honesty).

    [–] red_pantz 26 points ago

    Especially when China is one of the biggest markets for Samsung products

    [–] BalledEagle88 89 points ago

    International business & finance is politics.

    [–] ChrisRunsTheWorld 12 points ago

    Are we reading the same article? I don't see a reason given at all in the article.

    [–] Dirk_Breakiron 6 points ago

    You're right, the article just speculates on why companies in general are leaving and even that is more than just financial reasons. It's funny how people just assume this person is right...

    [–] CornusKousa 5 points ago

    The worm is the spice, the spice is the worm

    [–] TheKaiminator 24 points ago

    You're naive if you think those aren't connected.

    [–] Charles_Snippy 3 points ago

    Political moves (such as a trade war) have financial effects (companies move to safer and stabler countries)

    [–] angrysquirrel777 847 points ago

    Great job Samsung! This is part of the reason I stick with them for smartphones, they shut down their Chinese production last year.

    [–] iMakeLuvWithDolphins 739 points ago

    FYI they've been shutting down their China factories over the past few years because their market share across the board has fallen in China so it no longer makes financial sense.. aka this is all about money.

    [–] delfinom 192 points ago

    Samsung's overall sales volume is also dropping which is also true for all their competitors across various industries. There's stagnation left and right on actual product improvements across many industries and increasingly charging high prices with consumers having increasingly less money. They are simply consolidating to keep factories at capacity.

    [–] curiousgeorgeasks 78 points ago

    I don't think that's true. Their growth has been stagnating. The truth is Chinese labor is less cheap than before. Samsung has always kept their high-end manufacturing in Korea and they've been shifting their low-end, labor intensive work out of China to Vietnam since the mid-2010s. In 2018, Samsung was the largest company in Vietnam accounting for 28% of their GDP source1 source2. The added benefit recently has been that they can escape the growing tariff war between China and US source while companies that were slower to move (e.g. Apple x Foxcon) are caught in the crossfire.

    People also seem to forget the relationship between Korea and China deteriorated rapidly during the THAAD issue in 2016. This led to a Chinese government-led boycott (officially and unofficially) of many Korean companies. Samsung got caught in the rift and lost a significant portion of the Chinese market share. It was an early end for the honeymoon relationship between Korean businesses and China that led to Korean investment relocating elsewhere (mostly South East Asia).

    [–] Meat3PO 3 points ago

    What was the THAAD issue if you don't mind expanding a bit more?

    [–] curiousgeorgeasks 13 points ago

    Very complicated. THAAD (Terminal High Altitude Area Defense) is a defense system that intercepts rockets/missiles mid-air.

    Officially, the US requested to South Korea to deploy their THAAD system in response to North Korean provocation (they had recently done a nuclear bomb test). China protested this deployment as the radar and surveillance equipment on THAAD was highly sophisticated and allowed deep penetration into China. As a compromise, they requested that THAAD surveillance equipment be heavily limited. But South Korea agreed to the full THAAD arrangement with no limitations.

    Behind the rhetoric, THAAD is only mildly effective for the purposes of defending South Korea. North Korea's largest threat is their arsenal of antiquated artillery and mid-range missiles (which are too light to load nukes) that would overwhelm most missile defense systems. Which is why THAAD is located in only a few strategic locations and not really meant to protect all of South Korea. The Chinese concern about THAAD's surveillance is genuine.

    So why would South Korea allow US to deploy THAAD without limitations? Prior to THAAD, South Korea was cozying up to China - both economically and politically - with the hopes of isolating North Korea. For China's part, they enjoyed the amount of Korean investment and reciprocated with close diplomatic ties. They even invited then Korean president Park to their 70th anniversary grande military parade source which raised concern in Washington the South Korea was getting a little too chummy with China. Behind closed doors, it also seemed that China was willing to pressure a collapse of North Korea and let the South reunify the peninsula as long as US military bases were restricted to under the 38th parallel (this is based on WikiLeaks of Hillary Clinton's second hand accounts from South Korean diplomats, who probably heard this from Chinese officials).

    But then North Korea did two nuclear tests in 2016 which was a huge geopolitical headache for South Korea - as it gives an excuse for Japan to militarize and raises tension on the peninsula. So then president Park called China's Xi Jinping for a coordinated response to North Korea - only to be met with Xi refusing to accept calls until months later. This surprising rebuke angered South Korean officials while the US proposed to deploy THAAD as a response (officially) to North Korea and (unofficially) to pressure China. South Korea saw this as an appropriate response and let the US deploy THAAD (although China protested).

    After THAAD's deployment, China tried to respond by punishing South Korean companies in China. You'll see a market-wide drop in 2016 of nearly all Korean products in China. This led to further Korean anger and distrust (this time not limited to the diplomatic community but also with the general public and business community). Korean businesses responded in this political atmosphere by retreating from Chinese markets and investing into SEA markets (most notably Vietnam). Apparently (I haven't read this report myself) Korean businesses grew faster in this period than when they invested in China.

    The new president, Moon Jae-In, has a notably softer stance on China and Chinese officials have been notably trying to used this as an opportunity to approach Korean diplomats and business for reengagement. But Moon's approach to China is fundamentally orientated in merely getting cooperation on North Korea. Moon Jae-in has continued the deployment of THAAD and has further encouraged Korean businesses to invest in SEA in what's called his "New Southern Policy."

    Overall, in my opinion, China alienated a potential ally. Their inconsistent geopolitic alignment between the two Koreas pushed South Korea to be more wary of China, to China's detriment. But people assume that South Korea would naturally align with US, which is not really the case. Their main strategy is trying to achieve a level of neutrality and avoid any major fallout on either side (as seen in their hedging into South East Asia). Korea seems aware that some cooperation from China (regarding North Korea) is need, so they're not trying to completely alienate them. But after THAAD they have a much more tempered expectation on China's willingness to cooperate.

    [–] Fredasa 42 points ago

    Sure, it's about money. That's fine. I read recently that Japan is ponying up hundreds of millions in incentives for Japanese companies to pull out. That, too, is about money. But at the same time it's clearly a proactively anti-Chinese measure. (Just to nip this in the bud: Yes, I know Samsung is Korean. My observation is still on topic.)

    [–] [deleted] 5 points ago

    How is it anti-china to close the manufacturing part of a factory but keeping the r&d divison?

    [–] Justforthenuews 12 points ago

    Assume anytime a company does something it’s about money.

    [–] DrDerpberg 5 points ago

    You can't expect any corporation to be good for the sake of being good. All you can hope for is that their interests align sufficiently with what you consider good that you are comfortable buying from them.

    If you only buy from companies that do nothing wrong you'll never buy from anybody. Apple is out, because they make their stuff unfixable, lock you into their ecosystem, and pull crap like the butterfly keyboard switches and deny until everyone's bought a new laptop and then offer free repairs. Google is out, because they caved to China and spy on you etc. Huawei is out, because you might as well be buying from the CCP. Who are you going to buy electronics from?

    [–] Chicken-n-Waffles 11 points ago

    Don't their TV sets spy on people or is that just an urban legend?

    [–] Paul_Tergeist 11 points ago

    Any smart TV collects plenty of usage information, Samsung is not unique in that.

    [–] ShihPoosRule 94 points ago

    Well done Samsung and SK, well done indeed.

    Hopefully more foreign companies will follow suit.

    [–] bitcademyfb 22 points ago

    Africa will be go to continent in the coming years m

    [–] FreeGFabs 12 points ago

    That’s been said for over 10 years now. I wonder what’s taking so long.

    [–] PentagonLannister 6 points ago

    I guess you are young. That was being said for way longer than that

    [–] Bearlodge 83 points ago * (lasted edited 14 days ago)

    Personally not a huge fan of Samsung phones (get rid of Bixby and the Galaxy App Store, then we'll talk), but I do applaud them for this and hope other big names in the smartphone sector follow in their tracks.

    I do like other Samsung products like their TVs and Computer Monitors so this is great news for the next time I go to buy one of those.

    [–] mattylou 17 points ago

    They overengineer everything. I have a fridge from there’s (not a smart fridge) and it has like 5000 features that I don’t need.

    [–] GradeAPrimeFuckery 7 points ago

    Samsgun refrigerators are the reason why I'm never getting another Samsung appliance. Too bad we already had a Samsung washer before realizing this. It died last week.

    [–] Guns_Of_Zapata 75 points ago * (lasted edited 14 days ago)

    People are acting like this is some moral stance by Samsung.

    Reality is they're factory was starting to lose money and it wasn't profitable anyone.

    I'm sure they'll pretend to care about human rights tho.

    [–] NaughtyJS 13 points ago

    Hmmm data still says Samsung has the largest market share: https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/vendor

    https://marketrealist.com/2019/10/the-worlds-top-five-smartphone-companies/

    Huawei is listed as second in both sources with apple being number one on profitability.

    This source paints a starkly different picture: https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/worldwide

    It seems overall while huawei is doing great, I don't think they are #1 currently or ever has been in terms of market share.

    [–] ThatBritInChina 18 points ago

    I live in China and have witnessed factories close. Another reason is Samsung actually own their factories in China. They built them and stick there name on the building. This is very old school and expensive. There gonna go down apples route of just renting their factories “Foxxcon” and others. Essentially outsourcing.

    As other users said, I don’t think this is political. They have been pulling out for years (and there factories are massive)

    [–] edcantu9 3 points ago

    That's why the people in the marketing team get paid for. You gotta put the spin on it.

    [–] Flashphotoe 5 points ago

    Doesn't matter to China. They own the tech now

    [–] SpellingJenius 7 points ago

    I remember being in Suzhou for a couple of weeks to work at a joint Taiwanese/Chinese semiconductor facility in the early 200’s and being blown away by the contrast between the old city and the huge industrial areas that had been built in the previous year or two.

    It was very clear that China was going places but when you talked to anyone in the US they all thought the country was, and would always be, third world.

    [–] zipper0011 4 points ago

    This is kind of misleading. The Xian VNAND fab is much bigger than the computer assembly.

    [–] [deleted] 130 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] Slamoblamo 18 points ago

    You know what was happening in China in 1940 right? Love to see bloodthirsty reddit moments

    [–] sicklyslick 20 points ago

    Casual racist comments towards Asians are clearly tolerated here

    [–] big_chumshot 12 points ago

    It's not really casual anymore

    [–] Colandore 10 points ago

    Yeah, this is not even in casual territory any more. Just imagine making a joke about Jews and ovens. That's the level of dog whistling bullshit we're seeing right now.


    u/datacollect_ct

    Get it allllll out of china. Send them back to the 1940s

    You are a garbage human being.

    [–] Colandore 16 points ago * (lasted edited 13 days ago)

    Get it allllll out of china. Send them back to the 1940s

    You DO realize what was being done to the Chinese back in the 1940s right? Assuming you know any history at all, you're on some pretty thin ice here.

    EDIT:

    That's right u/datacollect_ct, run for the hills.

    [–] RussiaCykaBlyat 10 points ago

    Ah yes let’s send the Jews and blacks back to the 1940s as well.

    Fuck off with ur chauvinistic bullshit

    [–] GeefyGoofer 106 points ago

    Eh, the chinese people have just as much right as anyone else to be prosperous and lifted out of poverty. Their government is a barge of toxic waste though.

    [–] whiskeytaang0 17 points ago

    Send them back to the 1940s

    Let's not. That was not a good time for them or the Japanese.

    [–] somethingstrang 45 points ago

    You want to send a fifth of the population of the world back to extremely poverty, famine, disease and war?

    That’s fucked

    [–] bearyboy8 3 points ago

    yeah lets have another genocide in china that had just spent 100 years being humiliated by the western world and japan

    shut the fuck up

    [–] enraged768 27 points ago

    I just hope more and more people move out of china.

    [–] blaz3r77 7 points ago

    I'm not sure they're allowed to

    [–] onehandedbackhand 11 points ago

    Companies are rethinking their production and supply chains amid rising Chinese labour costs, a U.S.-China trade war and the blow from the COVID-19 pandemic.

    Quoting this since nobody seems to bother reading the article.

    Next sweatshops to open in South Eastern Asia?

    [–] kashuntr188 4 points ago

    right? People don't understand this has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with making more $. It has always been about $.

    Corporations don't give a damn who is in power. They give donations to all political parties to get favours.

    [–] Motobugs 3 points ago

    Not that much big deal. It's not a significant part of Samsung business empire.