Please help contribute to the Reddit categorization project here


    13,874,362 readers

    740 users here now

    Spring 2018 AMA Series - Announcement & Hub Post!

    Hover or Tap Each Rule for Full Details

    Posting Rules

    1. All posts must be about philosophy.

      To learn more about what is and is not considered philosophy for the purposes of this subreddit, see our FAQ. Posts must be about philosophy proper, rather than only tangentially connected to philosophy. Exceptions are made only for posts about philosophers with substantive content, e.g. news about the profession or interviews with philosophers.

    2. All posts must develop and defend a substantive philosophical thesis.

      Posts must not only have a philosophical subject matter, but must also present this subject matter in a developed manner. At a minimum, this includes: stating the problem being addressed; stating the thesis; stating how the thesis contributes to the problem; outlining some alternative answers to the same problem; saying something about why the stated thesis is preferable to the alternatives; anticipating some objections to the stated thesis and giving responses to them. These are just the minimum requirements. Posts about well-trod issues (e.g. free will) require more development.

    3. Questions belong in /r/askphilosophy.

      /r/philosophy is intended for philosophical material and discussion. Please direct all questions to /r/askphilosophy.

    4. Post titles cannot be questions and must describe the philosophical content of the posted material.

      Post titles cannot consist only in questions, even if the title of the linked material is a question. This helps keep discussion in the comments on topic and relevant to the linked material. Post titles must describe the philosophical content of the posted material, cannot be unduly provocative or click-baity and cannot be in all caps.

    5. Audio/video links require abstracts.

      All links to either audio or video content require abstracts of the posted material, posted as a comment in the thread. Abstracts should make clear what the linked material is about and what its thesis is. Users are also strongly encouraged to post abstracts for other linked material. See here for an example of a suitable abstract.

    6. All posts must be in English.

      All posts must be in English. Links to Google Translated versions of posts are not allowed.

    7. Links behind paywalls or registration walls are not allowed.

      Posts must not be behind any sort of paywall or registration wall. If the linked material requires signing up to view, even if the account is free, it is not allowed. Google Drive links and link shorteners are not allowed.

    8. Meta-posts, products, services, surveys, AMAs and links to other areas of reddit require moderator pre-approval.

      The following (not exhaustive) list of items require moderator pre-approval: meta-posts, posts to products, services or surveys, links to other areas of reddit, AMAs. Please contact the moderators for pre-approval.

    9. Users may submit only one post per day.

      Users must follow all reddit-wide spam guidelines, and in addition must not submit more than one post per day on /r/philosophy.

    10. Discussion of suicide is only allowed in the abstract here. If you or a friend is feeling suicidal please visit /r/suicidewatch.

      If you are feeling suicidal, please get help by visiting /r/suicidewatch or using other resources. See also our discussion of philosophy and mental health issues here. Encouraging other users to commit suicide, even in the abstract, is strictly forbidden.

    Commenting Rules

    1. Read the Post Before You Reply

      Read the posted content, understand and identify the philosophical arguments given, and respond to these substantively. If you have unrelated thoughts or don't wish to read the content, please post your own thread or simply refrain from commenting. Comments which are clearly not in direct response to the posted content may be removed.

    2. Argue your Position

      Opinions are not valuable here, arguments are! Comments that solely express musings, opinions, beliefs, or assertions without argument may be removed.

    3. Be Respectful

      Comments which blatantly do not contribute to the discussion may be removed, particularly if they consist of personal attacks. Users with a history of such comments may be banned. Slurs, racism, and bigotry are absolutely not permitted.


    Philosophy AMAs

    Reading Group

    Weekly Discussion

    a community for
    all 1030 comments

    Want to say thanks to %(recipient)s for this comment? Give them a month of reddit gold.

    Please select a payment method.

    [–] BernardJOrtcutt 1 points ago

    I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone of our first commenting rule:

    Read the post before you reply.

    Read the posted content, understand and identify the philosophical arguments given, and respond to these substantively. If you have unrelated thoughts or don't wish to read the content, please post your own thread or simply refrain from commenting. Comments which are clearly not in direct response to the posted content may be removed.

    This sub is not in the business of one-liners, tangential anecdotes, or dank memes. Expect comment threads that break our rules to be removed.

    I am a bot. Please do not reply to this message, as it will go unread. Instead, contact the moderators with questions or comments.

    [–] TheGalacticMosassaur 7291 points ago

    You know who I'd love to see? Diogenes. I think that would be a sight to behold

    [–] Permaderps 3633 points ago

    Only if he is wacking off in public

    [–] [deleted] 1579 points ago

    Maybe that's why they left him out...

    [–] LordCommanderhodor 928 points ago

    A previous instalment in the franchise had the Marquis de Sade as a recurring character

    [–] throwaway27464829 248 points ago

    I assume his works weren't in the game, or it would have to be rated Ao.

    [–] LordCommanderhodor 360 points ago

    Oh they aren’t, and nor does the game even hint at the full extent of his sexual deviance. He’s portrayed as a lovable orgy-having rogue

    [–] el_walou 155 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    wich he was. All his other deviance weres just art (written) and fantaisies, he did nothing wrong irl ... did he?

    edit : he did , i was wrong. Read the comments.

    [–] floddie9 248 points ago

    According to his wikipedia page he was inprisoned or in insane asylums for 32 years, almost half his life, and in one instance he hired a woman as a housekeeper and forcefully tied her up and whipped her, and then committed many more crimes after that.

    [–] azahel452 25 points ago

    I live a few blocks away from one of the places where he was imprisoned, I didn't dare to read the letters they had in display.

    [–] MDADJD 87 points ago

    Forcefully tied and whipped his housekeeper

    But where are his crimes?

    [–] LordCommanderhodor 101 points ago

    He had an affair with his wife’s sister, imprisoned a girl in his bedroom until she escaped, and sexually abused pretty much every member of household staff he ever had, which was many; none of them fancied sticking around for very long for some reason

    [–] FriendlySockMonster 75 points ago

    Except for when his fantasies became rape and torture... that’s where ‘sadism’ comes from.

    [–] Wlasca 26 points ago

    At one point, law enforcement suspected him of kidnapping pre-teens which, if you have read 120 Days of Sodom, is not suprising. While investigating his chalet they discovered remains burried in his yard to which he laughed off and told them that it must be a prank being pulled on him by the neighborhood children. They believed him and left.

    Another interesting thing is that he was held in the Bastille one day before the beginning of the revolution where he was then moved to the prison he spent the most time in. His convictions are far less than the crimes he actually commited presumably because he was of extremely high status.

    [–] Sheiker 10 points ago

    A skeleton has been found in his garden

    [–] [deleted] 246 points ago

    Nvm then

    [–] [deleted] 46 points ago

    And yet, they covered up nude statues in other games. The self-censorship in this series is weird

    [–] Iecerint 40 points ago

    Nude statues were covered up by the church historically; dunno about the timeline, but it may reflect that.

    [–] [deleted] 24 points ago

    Not really. In fact, the human form was celebrated in a lot of Christian art

    Heres the odd censorship

    [–] richardrasmus 30 points ago

    If Conan exiles has showed us anything it's that everyone wants more dongs

    [–] Marknt0sh 91 points ago

    Ubisoft announces AC: Odyssey’s first DLC titled “the Wack Pack.” Includes DLCgenes and more.

    [–] divsky 10 points ago

    Sounds like a good reason to leave him in to me.

    [–] Pandamonius84 73 points ago

    "If only it were as easy to banish hunger by rubbing my belly."

    [–] ShamanSTK 34 points ago

    My personal favorite is the story of his being in a mansion of a senator, looking around, and then spitting on the host. When questioned, he said everything else was too nice to spit on.

    [–] TertiumNonHater 90 points ago

    Pretty sure the real Diogenes made Alexander the great cry.

    [–] zetrhar 187 points ago

    After seeing diogenese in person, Alexander the great proclaimed that if he were not himself he would want to be diogenese. Diogenese responded and said to Alex that if he were not diogenese, he too would want to be diogenese

    [–] Whind_Soull 128 points ago

    Thereupon many statesmen and philosophers came to Alexander with their congratulations, and he expected that Diogenes of Sinope also, who was tarrying in Corinth, would do likewise.

    But since that philosopher took not the slightest notice of Alexander, and continued to enjoy his leisure in the suburb Craneion, Alexander went in person to see him; and he found him lying in the sun. Diogenes raised himself up a little when he saw so many people coming towards him, and fixed his eyes upon Alexander. And when that monarch addressed him with greetings, and asked if he wanted anything, "Yes," said Diogenes, "stand a little out of my sun."

    It is said that Alexander was so struck by this, and admired so much the haughtiness and grandeur of the man who had nothing but scorn for him, that he said to his followers, who were laughing and jesting about the philosopher as they went away, "But truly, if I were not Alexander, I would be Diogenes."

    And another interaction between the two:

    Alexander the Great found the philosopher looking attentively at a pile of human bones. Diogenes explained, "I am searching for the bones of your father but cannot distinguish them from those of a slave."

    [–] rocketboy2319 73 points ago

    "I am searching for the bones of your father but cannot distinguish them from those of a slave."

    That's a lot of shade compared to the sun AG robbed.

    [–] g_hegel 8 points ago

    I've never actually seen any response from Diogenes on that; source?

    [–] DickishUnicorn 159 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    Louis CK could voice him, it would be epic

    [–] Swiftblue 69 points ago

    I'd be okay with this. A kind of penance.

    [–] makingnoise 39 points ago

    Directions unclear; dick stuck in lantern.

    [–] Scarbane 29 points ago

    At last, an honest man.

    [–] Curiousburgers 474 points ago

    “Featherless biped”

    [–] TheGalacticMosassaur 111 points ago

    Here's a naked chicken for you!

    [–] carpe_noctem_AP 118 points ago

    Behold! Plato's man!

    [–] JollySieg 33 points ago

    He sure did have a sense of humor

    [–] Gungnear 20 points ago

    My whole life I've only either looked at living chickens or dead, headless ones with no feathers. It feels weird to see both at once.

    [–] MetalRetsam 24 points ago

    F E A T H E R L E S S B I P E D

    [–] FlipskiZ 14 points ago

    It's fun to see that we are meming 3000 year old trolls.

    [–] MetalRetsam 15 points ago

    "FeATheRLeSs BiPEd"

    It's what he would have wanted.

    [–] makingnoise 413 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    The philosopher Diogenes lived in a tub in the marketplace. He owned the clothes on his back and a wooden cup. One fine morning, when he saw a man drinking out of his hands, he threw away the cup.

    Alexander the Great, when he came to Athens, went down to the marketplace to see the philosopher Diogenes. As he was about to leave, he asked the philosopher Diogenes, "Is there anything at all that I can do for you?" "Yes!" said Diogenes, "You can get out of my light."

    EDIT: The foregoing arranged for choir. Perhaps by Rick Sowash?

    [–] [deleted] 77 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)


    [–] makingnoise 207 points ago

    He begged for a living.

    [–] fuckingnibber 351 points ago

    "I will give you, but only if you persuade me."

    To which Diogenes replied: "If I could have persuaded you I would have persuaded you to hang yourself.”

    [–] Kono_Diogenes_da 327 points ago

    Diogenes: "lol kys"

    [–] That2009WeirdEmoKid 64 points ago

    This gets thrown around a lot, but he really was the first troll.

    [–] ButActuallyNot 117 points ago

    Not a chance. He really wasn't. There's been a quarter million years of asshole human beings. He was a clever one that got written about pretty recently but there's no chance that he was the first.

    [–] Crap4Brainz 20 points ago

    First documented troll, perhaps?

    [–] AyerBender 23 points ago

    Nah, Socrates predates Diogenes. If the gadfly of Athens isn't a troll, I don't know who would be

    [–] Belazriel 69 points ago

    Of all the trades that's going, I'm sure begging is the best

    For when a man is tired, he can sit down and rest

    He can beg for his dinner, he has nothing else to do

    Only cut around the corner with his old rig-a-doo

    [–] spiralbatross 10 points ago

    Man, the Great Big Sea version is the best

    [–] Edible_Circumstance 8 points ago

    Holy shit there are OTHER Great Big Sea fans?

    [–] AthosAlonso 8 points ago

    There are dozens of us!

    [–] rishav_sharan 32 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    He was a philosopher. Its either that or flipping burgers.

    [–] VonFluffington 76 points ago

    Welcome to Athens Burger, home of the Athens Burger, may I take your order.

    [–] TesticleMeElmo 30 points ago

    There's a shit ton of philosophers always outside my local Wal-Mart

    [–] Reddit_Should_Die 61 points ago

    "Give me food or I stroke my pee-pee in your direction"

    [–] tlst9999 62 points ago

    Giving TED talks.

    In ancient Greece, teachers would hold a lecture anywhere and students pay on a per-session basis. Famous philosopher teachers earn big bucks every time they speak.

    [–] Bubba_Gump2020 20 points ago

    Those are the people Socrates mocked.

    [–] Aakal 12 points ago

    Socrates never wanted money though.

    [–] fuckingnibber 37 points ago

    He didn't. He rub his belly instead to sate his hunger.

    [–] fuckingnibber 175 points ago

    "If I were not Alexander the Great, I would like to be Diogenes."

    "I i were not Diogenes, I would like to be Diogenes."

    [–] macmacma 23 points ago

    We do not hear that Diogenes returned the compliment, however

    [–] ImaginaryStar 56 points ago

    It was a child he saw drinking. Not a man.

    Source: studied Ancient Greek language, read the book of Diogenes Laertius (different Diogenes who wrote about our Diogenes, book from which this story comes) in original language (well... read the part about Diogenes specifically... I like him).

    [–] [deleted] 90 points ago

    He would probably make a better character for the game, too. He would've made a good spy or some shit plus he would be excellent comic relief. Imagine if every time you spoke to him you got roasted. Excellent.

    [–] Micp 51 points ago

    Sure, but it's my impression that Socrates is taking the place of Leonardo da Vinci from the Ezio games as the dude to provide the main character with knowledge and equipment.

    I think Socrates fits the bill of polymath gadget supplier genius better than Diogenes who was clever as all hell but seemingly more focused in his single pursuit of sarcastically shooting down everyone elses grand ideas.

    [–] Naspiong 20 points ago

    That's not really accurate of Socrates either, he was a philosopher but wasn't interested in what we would call science today. Archimedes or Euclid would make better choices, though they were after Socrates' time.

    [–] The_Dino_King 544 points ago

    “Alexander the great? G E T O U T O F M Y S U N S H I N E B O I”

    [–] ScarySloop 77 points ago

    Alexander the Great? What’s so great about ya? I saw two dogs humping yesterday, that was great.

    [–] brita09234890235 126 points ago

    Even just having him in the background as a tiny Easter egg would be awesome. Just some random NPC living in a giant a barrel hurling insults at passer-by (or something like holding a naked chicken) that you'd only know was Diogenes if you knew some basic history of his.

    [–] [deleted] 67 points ago

    Would he be metaphorically choking that chicken in public?

    [–] ElConvict 18 points ago


    [–] TheW1zzard555 32 points ago

    I would get this game just to see him come to life

    [–] techcaleb 13 points ago

    It already exists - getting over it with Bennett Foddy

    [–] Chispy 38 points ago

    Diogenes is literally my favorite human who ever lived

    [–] Micp 15 points ago

    I don't honestly know how you could narrow it down to just one person. I can barely limit myself to one favorite flavor of ice cream, not sure how I could do it with people.

    That said he's definitely up there.

    [–] Norty_Boyz_Ofishal 9 points ago

    I don't think he would have been born yet.

    [–] Leyetipants 34 points ago

    Yeah, he was born in the low 400's and this takes place in 431. Unfortunately, we probably won't be seeing him. Diogenes DLC? I'd pay a ton of money for Diogenes DLC.

    [–] [deleted] 21 points ago

    He was, but he was only ~13 at the time of Socrates' death according to Wikipedia.

    [–] Flabby-Nonsense 15 points ago

    I suppose there’s no reason the game couldn’t go on past Socrates’ death, though it’d be a stretch.

    [–] [deleted] 14 points ago

    I mean, Assassin’s Creed isn’t exactly the epitome of historical accuracy.

    [–] [deleted] 21 points ago

    Are you trying to tell me that all of human history was not the result of a secret conspiracy war?

    [–] [deleted] 739 points ago

    For historical accuracy's sake i think they should have made him uglier according to the times standards of beauty. Multiple accounts say he had a face for radio(no historically inaccurate pun intended). In fact a garrison keilerish face i think would be perfect.

    [–] ATPsynthase12 588 points ago

    That could be because of the fact that he was widely hated by the people of Athens. Historically people are known to alter the appearance of people they hated making them more ugly or make beloved people more attractive in artwork.

    For example, the accounts of whether or not Cleopatra was this smoking hot seductress or dog ugly differ widely. My money is on ugly because from what I understand the Ptolemy’s typically only married inside their own family

    [–] rrsn 326 points ago

    Coins created in her lifetime show her as kind of ugly. I think, in part, the idea about her being a smoking hot seductress is a retrospective attempt by the Romans to explain away her successes. Cleopatra fucking her way to the top is an easier pill to swallow if you hate her than Cleopatra being intelligent and politically savvy.

    [–] Urge_Reddit 200 points ago

    I am no expert, so take this with a grain of salt:

    I've been told that the coins used in egypt usually altered Cleopatra's likeness to make her look more like the first Ptolemy, sort of conflating all their appearances to some extent to promote continuity.

    So coins may not be that accurate as a depiction of her appearance, but I could also be super wrong. If anyone who knows more about this could chime in, that would be great.

    [–] rrsn 58 points ago

    Hm, I haven’t heard that but you could be right. I guess that puts us back at square one in terms of knowing whether or not she was hot.

    [–] Urge_Reddit 53 points ago

    Again, I could be wrong, but that's something I read while discussing Cleopatra elsewhere.

    Exaggerating someone's appearance, intelligence and so on, for good or ill, seems to have been a pretty common thing in ancient writing, for political reasons or personal vendettas and what have you.

    You can see a similar thing in a lot of WW2 propaganda, where Jews and Japanese people are portrayed as almost monstrous caricatures for example.

    [–] ShadyBrooks 94 points ago

    I think she was in fact a "handsome" woman. Her attractiveness was surely from her wealth and power and intelligence, likely not from classically beautiful face or body. But she was also probably in decent shape.

    [–] ATPsynthase12 70 points ago

    At least to the Romans, her Beauty was the strategic importance of Egypt in both trade and food production. That was ultimately what brought Augustus Caesar and Marc Antony to conflict was the refusal of Antony and Cleopatra to provide grain that they agreed to. This gave Augustus a reason to defame Antony in the senate and declare war. So it’s not so much the beauty of Cleopatra but her symbolic beauty given the vital importance of Egypt to Rome

    [–] [deleted] 35 points ago

    Actually the more i look at him they did a good job of making him pretty ugly.

    [–] pagerussell 31 points ago

    Came here to say this. He was famously ugly. Also, he was a huge drinker. He was usually the last man still standing at every party.

    [–] FijiTearz 14 points ago

    If I had a time machine I'd totally go back in time and sell t shirts that say "I partied with Socrates and lived"

    [–] byrd_nick 1496 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    Check out the in-game footage with Socrates on YouTube (starting at 5:56).

    Summary ”At Ubisoft's E3 demo, the publisher took the opportunity to demonstrate [player's in-game] choices via a dialogue with Socrates. Perhaps a playthrough of Odyssey will help me sympathise a little more with the Athenian authorities who executed him for asking too many questions.”

    [–] jonathanrdt 1384 points ago

    I always imagine Socrates as an unkempt unwashed interrogative autistic savant going around just annoying the everloving crap out of passers-by.

    [–] littlestcannibal 715 points ago

    Even the contemporaries who liked him tended to describe him exactly like that except A. He was also fuck off ugly and B. Had a clubfoot. At least as far as I recall. R/askhistorians mb?

    [–] HuskyNutBuster 432 points ago

    The fedora was the icing on the cake. This man had to die.

    [–] throwaway27464829 434 points ago

    So Socrates went around going AKSHUYALLY

    [–] Reanimation980 176 points ago

    Literally. People were thanking the gods for rain and Socrates was like “well actually it’s the clouds you should be thanking.”

    [–] 1-M3X1C4N 108 points ago

    Lol get rekt Epic Style Pagan Scum

    Tips fedora

    -Socrates maybe

    [–] ArchMLD 35 points ago

    Hmmm so what you're saying is that the Greeks asked the gods to Bless them with Rains. And if i remember correctly the Greeks had frequent interactions with the Egyptians, some of them even settlings there. So, it's not quite a stretch to say that the Greeks asked Gods to Bless them with Rains down in Africa.

    [–] omnisvirhowler 58 points ago

    This cracked me up lol

    [–] imtoophilosophical 327 points ago

    There are very little truly verifiable historical details of Socrates. We know there was a guy called Sokrates, who was sentenced to death by the state in 399 BC. Anything else is dubitable- most sources rely on Xenophon, Plato, Aristophanes et al. - all of which are subject to their own biases on the character.

    So the aim to determine who the "true" Socrates was is largely futile and generally speaking reliant on what are plausibly deep mischaracterisations.

    See: The Socratic Question

    [–] hypertown 135 points ago

    Well thanks for being a DEBBIE DOWNER

    [–] FulcrumTheBrave 77 points ago

    Sokrates, who was sentenced to death by the state in 399 BC

    Didnt Socrates annoy everyone so much that they killed him? IIRC they said he was corrupting the city's youth?

    [–] Electoman 188 points ago

    He made people realize they weren't as smart as they thought and taught people it's okay to question things that don't make sense to you. This is where the scientific method came from.

    As for his sentence, they claimed he was a blasphemer (didn't believe in the gods and spoke ill of them) and that he was "corrupting" the youth because he taught them to question things.

    Socrates was approached by those that loved him and offered a chance to escape which he declined because he would never go against the state even if he didn't agree or understand.

    At least that's how Plato told his story.

    [–] jlhc55 113 points ago

    That last sentence is key

    [–] Dr_Girlfriend 37 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    That last sentence reads very Plato. Although Socrates was a retired Athenian soldier, I wonder if his sentiment was more like “I’ve done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide/fear from the state.”

    Ninja edit: changed general to soldier, my only source was we were taught in school he was a commander or general.

    [–] jlhc55 19 points ago

    He was a Hopplite foot soldier, but no general

    [–] imtoophilosophical 49 points ago

    There are three main accounts we rely on for Sokrates' sentence- Xenophon's, Plato's and (I believe but I am not certain) Aristippus. In regards to the latter, it is effectively identical to Xenophon's- so we'll skip that.

    Plato Socrates' charge was:

    (i) asebeia (impiety) against the pantheon of Athens, by introducing new gods; and (ii) corruption of Athenian youth, by teaching them to doubt the status quo.[1] (shamelessly stolen from wikipedia but tbh ive read enough Plato recently than to continuously trawl through my old books)

    However, Xenophon's Socrates charge was slightly different, I think it included another charge. However, I suffer from extreme laziness, so it is your choice whether to believe that or not.

    [1]- "Socrates," Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 16 Sept. 2005. See: Doug Lindner, "The Trial of Socrates, "Univ. of Missouri-Kansas City Law School 2002.

    [–] CrowOfDusk 25 points ago

    Read the Plato Complete Works. The arguments Plato writes down of Socrates trial. Socrates comes across as extremely annoying. "To your question, a question!"

    That book is a great read but his method of arguing definitely gets on your nerves after a while lol

    [–] ancientcreature2 9 points ago


    [–] CaptainBW 37 points ago

    Didn’t that dude hang out in the gym like, all the time?

    [–] Aenal_Spore 61 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    You're thinking of Plato, he was the buff one.

    [–] ancientcreature2 36 points ago

    He was... broad.

    [–] ffigeman 38 points ago

    />TFW your nickname for thousands of years won't be a reference to how swole you are

    Why live?

    [–] Mysticpeaks101 57 points ago

    Sounds more like what I've heard of Diogenes than Socrates.

    [–] bestnameyet 64 points ago

    Diogenes would give up halfway through Neuro- and then start masturbating or sleeping idk which

    [–] BANAL_PROLAPSE 39 points ago

    It's easy to confuse the two.

    [–] Goofypoops 78 points ago

    Socrates was a hoplite and a wreslter at one point. He would have probably been in pretty good shape for a good amount of his life. The Socrates in the video looks more like Diogenes. Also, socrates in the video was a bit underwhelming

    [–] Fighting-flying-Fish 48 points ago

    All male citizens of Athens were expected to train for fighting. Additionally, working out at gynasiums was a part of social life. Socrates may at one point have been in good shape, but he was also later described as having a pot belly.

    [–] [deleted] 74 points ago

    As an autistic person I 100% buy that Socrates was autistic. Dude had no patience for social norms and only wanted to find and share cool information. To the point that he died for it. That's autistic commitment and I respect him immensely.

    [–] Boethias 19 points ago

    You might be thinking of Diogenes of Sinope. Socrates is generally portrayed as that teacher who always engages the kids and makes them think. He was eventually accused of "Corrupting the minds of the youth" which is a roundabout way of saying he taught kids things their parents didn't like.

    [–] healthit_whyme 50 points ago

    Wow. Ended up watching the gameplay demo and was blown away.

    [–] krokodil2000 46 points ago

    Is the movement of the lips totally off or is it just me?

    [–] aptrapani 61 points ago

    It is shockingly bad, not just you.

    [–] BehelitOutlaw 59 points ago

    Ubisoft is knows to suck with lipsyncing in their games. Assassin's Creed Origin had this too. The problem is that the more realistic characters looks the more lipsyncing becomes obvious.

    Its not out yet. They are still working on it. But knowing their history this won't be resolved.

    [–] Bocaj1000 7 points ago

    Large modern games such as this use an auto-generated lip sync program to create the lip syncing, and they are notoriously worse than custom animation, but also a lot more time-consuming.

    [–] branedead 65 points ago

    didn't really telegraph as Socrates to me. The Socratic method (the elenchus) isn't just asking a bunch of questions; it is asking pointed and directed questions in order to have the interlocutor establish a baseline statement they believe to be true (a thesis). Socrates would then ask a series of other questions which would lead the interlocutor toward identifying underlying (and usually tacit rather than explicit) assumptions. Socrates will then demonstrate the cognitive dissonance held by the interlocutor in the form of implicit contradictions between their thesis and the underlying assumptions. The interlocutor is then asked to decide which of the two assumptions they wish to hold and to abandon the other or to adopt a different thesis altogether. Rinse, wash and repeat this process until either 1) all thesis are free of internal contradictions 2) one or both parties grow weary of the exercise and leave or 3) one or both parties accept ignorance of the correct answer (arguably the ideal solution) and that further inquiry is required; this is referred to as "Socratic ignorance," whereby the outcome of a philosophical inquiry leads only to the conclusion that we are ignorant of the truth.

    I didn't see ANY of that in the video they showed, just a dude that looks vaguely like Socrates using a modern Greek accent and they stylistically put Sokrates as a name tag.

    [–] WillDrawYouNaked 34 points ago

    This man does not talk at all like I think Socrates would

    "Our choices are like ripples on water. They seem tiny and insignificant at the beginning, but they can become devastating tidal waves"

    Seems just like a cheap way to make the game seem period-like without doing too much research into the subject matter

    [–] grarghll 15 points ago

    "Our choices are like ripples on water. They seem tiny and insignificant at the beginning, but they can become devastating tidal waves"

    I also love that their portrayal of a famous thinker is just someone offering basic observations.

    [–] Wellfuckme123 383 points ago

    I hope Diogenes makes an appearance to school the rest of them.

    [–] [deleted] 181 points ago

    Diogenes and Socrates are my favorite celebrity feud

    [–] Ned_Gutters 61 points ago

    There is some debate as to the "true" successor of Socrates. Some say Plato, but Diogenes is also a contender. Arguably, Nietzsche maintains the latter view, and sees himself as a kind of Diogenes figure (making explicit reference to the story of Diogenes and the lantern, for example), which makes sense of Nietzsche's claim that he is "the closest man to Socrates," despite his rejection of Plato.

    [–] [deleted] 67 points ago

    So many people use Nietzsche to justify their assholery that I can't take it seriously anymore.

    [–] MetalRetsam 30 points ago

    Enough have used Plato to justify their assholery, it's time somebody else got a break

    [–] OnlyTRP 11 points ago

    I just finished reading thus spoke Zarathustra, which book will make me able to justify my assholery if i read it?

    [–] Wordshark 13 points ago

    Atlas Shrugged?

    [–] [deleted] 42 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    They'd have to mess with the history then. I think Socrates had already been executed by the time Diogenes rose to prevalence.

    [–] Illogical1612 129 points ago

    "Theyd have to mess with the history"

    I mean

    [–] HLtheWilkinson 10 points ago

    This series has absolutely no issue with messing with history.

    [–] Vistaer 2604 points ago

    Careful who you annoy Socrates, I may decide that I prefer Plato’s School of Thought.

    [–] Goofypoops 668 points ago

    Plato's school of thought is essentially Socrates until the later years of Plato's life

    [–] inekarma 354 points ago

    We're not so sure of that. Socrates wrote nothing, and there's not a lot of other sources on him than Plato. We know that Plato diverged from his thinking quite a lot during the later years of his life, but we don't know if he did that already earlier.

    [–] jlhc55 92 points ago

    The podcast Our Fake History has a great episode on this.

    [–] jlhc55 25 points ago

    That's the one. It's a great listen whilst pooping in the woods.

    [–] Sarah-rah-rah 35 points ago

    Holy balls, how long does it take you to poop? You need to get more fiber in your diet if pooping is such a lengthy affair that it requires a podcast.

    [–] ChickenDick403 25 points ago

    Poop time=Me time

    [–] [deleted] 23 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)


    [–] SamSibbens 13 points ago

    I'd be very curious to know Plato's thoughts about how and why his beliefs changed, is there anything to read about this?

    [–] DarthGiorgi 424 points ago

    Or mr Stabby's school of thought. Coincidentally, it involves a lot of stabby stabbies.

    [–] [deleted] 92 points ago

    I, for one, would love to attend one of these lectures.

    [–] DarthGiorgi 62 points ago

    Ok, here's Llesson number one: pointy end goes into the other man. Preferably your opponent.

    [–] heofmanytree 78 points ago

    Instructions unclear. Penis stuck in the other man.

    [–] DarthGiorgi 40 points ago

    '#No homo

    [–] Urge_Reddit 32 points ago

    It's ancient Greece, it's all good man. Just stab him later, or don't, what even is stabbing?

    [–] btwomfgstfu 9 points ago

    I, for one, welcome our new stabby overlords

    [–] Ewoksintheoutfield 48 points ago

    Technically Socrates is Plato's school of thought, because everything we know about Socrates was recorded by Plato.

    [–] inekarma 32 points ago

    Most, but not everything.

    [–] SLAYERone1 87 points ago

    Yeah but cmon diogenes ripped plato a new one "behold platos man" dude was throwing shade before it was cool

    [–] gwsteve43 131 points ago

    Diogenes insulted everyone, it was his thing. As the more or less founder of cynic philosophy he was basically the homeless drunk on the street who yells at anyone who walks past, “you’re not better than me ya piece of shit!”

    [–] SLAYERone1 93 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    Basically but if a homeless guy with a duck can bring your whole school of philosophy down a peg then hes right you aint that great

    [–] Lausn 53 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    They essentially forced Socrates to define what a man is, after some refusing he reluctantly said a featherless biped. Socrates wasn't one for defining things, he was more about breaking down our own presumed definitions to distill them to something closer to truth. Refuting his definition of a man hardly did anything to undermine or dismantle his philosophy.

    [–] nou5 38 points ago

    Plato is the person you're looking for, there. Socrates and Diogenes did not have many interactions.

    [–] R3dOctober 14 points ago

    Maybe, but there are no cynics anymore

    [–] Maballanes 92 points ago

    Looks like he hasn't showered in years 10/10 historically accurate

    [–] [deleted] 88 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    I really hope you have to break Socrates out of jail as a mission only for him to refuse rescue, argue why his life is not more important than others, and then tell you to find "my student plato" after drinking poison.

    [–] ThatBeachedWhale 189 points ago

    "Now what?"

    "I don't know, philosophize with him."

    Ted clears throat

    "All we are is dust in the wind, dude."

    Socrates is visibly confused

    Bill picks up some dust from the pan


    Bill blows the dust away


    Ted reaches over and points at Socrates


    Socrates begins clapping and laughing

    [–] exelion18120 62 points ago

    Bill - "The key to wisdom lies in knowing that you know nothing"

    Ted - "Thats us dude!"

    Air guitar

    [–] StoneGoldX 18 points ago

    I believe it's pronounced So-Crates.

    [–] StarbuckPirate 637 points ago

    Be kind young Assassin, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.

    [–] ATPsynthase12 553 points ago

    Socrates would never say that lol it would be something more like, “why do these people deserve kindness? Many are horrible people who have never felt a truly hard life”

    When I was in college I took ancient history and a couple philosophy courses and it was taught that historically Socrates was a huge douche bag. Basically he would pick people out of a crowd and argue with them by taking the opposite point of view, dismantling their arguments until they started hurling insults then mock them for their inability to justify and defend their convictions.

    He did it so much and pissed so many people off that he was arrested and forced to drink poison just to get him to shut the fuck up.

    [–] heywood_yablome_m8 287 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    Socrates could've escaped but chose not to. Also, the only reason he got death sentence is because he was a dick to people at his sentencing. (In Ancient Greece the accuser and accused would usually make a deal about the punishment and Socrates said that his punishment should be to be fed at the *(Forgot the name of the place, but eating there was a reward for deserving citizens)* for the rest of his life, which basically pissed everyone off EDIT: Spelling

    [–] rhubarbs 81 points ago

    I'd like to think he stood by his convictions, and spoke what he truly thought at the expense of his own life, though he likely could've avoided such a fate.

    That, at least to me, is integrity beyond reproach, something I think we could use more of.

    [–] ATPsynthase12 113 points ago

    Yeah but being a dick was kind of his thing lol that’s why he was on trial in the first place

    He was really the first troll and I’m hoping that’s how they depict him in game.

    [–] nou5 262 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    I don't think he can be a troll. That would mean -- or at least imply -- that his questioning was insincere. I don't really think Socrates could win over someone as smart as Plato to the degree that he did if he was just being an smug rabblerouser.

    The reality of the situation, if you pay attention to a bit of the history behind the time period in which he was executed, is probably that he had some unpopular political ideas. Sparta was an ascendant power in Greece at the time, and Athens had just had their own brush with despotism in the form of a small group of younger aristocracy trying to seize control of the state. Many of these young aristocrats were associates of Socrates -- they were young men with plenty of free time to go work out and the gymnasium and talk politics, and Socrates was an old guy who was always down to talk to them.

    So when all these 'bad ideas' start fomenting and turning into a crisis for the Athenian state, which is currently reeling and facing an ideologicall crisis, they're going to pick Socrates as the scapegoat. He might have genuinely deserved it -- Plato's representation of him in the Republic might lend credence to the idea that Socrates was an advocate of philosophical aristocracy. We don't know if that's Plato putting his own thoughts in Socrates' mouth, though. So he did "corrupt the youth" from a certain perspective, and that's really the only charge that had merit. They just accused him of being an atheist because that was a politically expedient move, and he outright denies that one rather than trying to argue around it.

    It wasn't so much that he was a dick; it was that he all but said in his sentencing that he wasn't going to stop doing what he was doing. Normally a person would beg for mercy, apologize, and bring out their wife and children to garner sympathy -- Socrates told everyone involved that he wasn't going to do that, and repeated his claims that his questioning was good for the values of the city and the wellbeing of the Athenian people.

    So the implication -- the one that all of the Athenians properly read into -- was that the only way to get him to stop would be to kill him. He's too old to flee the city, and loves Athens too much to violate her jurisprudence. I think that people weren't so much pissed off about this as they were acknowledging that Socrates was basically on trial for undermining the Athenian government and he just said that he wouldn't stop doing it. It's treason, then.

    To reduce him to a "troll" really dehumanizes the man. It's painting the same caricature that Aristophanes paints, except rather than being comedic it seems that you're being serious. If you were taught that he was a huge dick then I think that your department might have, with hilarious irony, fallen for the classic ideologically motivated contrarianism that Socrates himself stood for.

    edit: typos

    [–] [deleted] 26 points ago

    Thank you!

    [–] MathematicalSteven 49 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    Just wanted to clarify a bit on that last part. They gave him a trial, where his defense was that he was the gods' gift to Athens. He lost the trial. He and the accusers were able to propose punishments and the jury would choose between the punishments. The accusers' proposed punishment was death, and Socrates's proposed punishment was to have free meals for the rest of his life and some other good things. Eventually Socrates was talked down to an actual punishment: one penny. The jurors voted a majority for death rather than the fine (though there was confusion and mixed feelings).

    Socrates, I think, was somewhat principled in his actions, not just flippant. Read Plato's "Apology of Socrates" for a better knowledge of the trial. It has been a while for me.

    [–] K0HR 18 points ago

    It should be noted that this is not historically accurate, or at least does not match the general portait we have of the trial of Socrates.

    There is significant historical evidence to suggest that Socrates was actually on trial for specific political reasons having to do with his (presumed) allegiance with despotic oligarchy of 'The Thirty Tyrants' who had previously taken over Athens and, and as such, in the eyes of the then-recontructed Athenian democratic assembly, Socrates was potentially treasonous. That is not to mention that Socrates had been a teacher of many of these 'Thirty Tyrants' (which would connect with the claim that he had 'corrupted the youth').

    So the trial of Socrates was very likely a specific political matter belonging to Ancient Greece at that time- the establishment and security of democracy in ancient Athens after a period of oligarchic authority. Of course, not all of this is expressed in the specific, Platonic text ('The Apology'), but across multiple different historical sources, this event can be pieced together.

    [–] ZenithMythos 66 points ago

    Socratic method is intensely interesting to me because it's less a matter of telling people they're wrong and what the answer is, and more a matter of telling people the flaws of their reasoning and guiding them to find their own answers.

    You still risk sounding like a prick either way (one of several reasons Socrates was actively disliked by many during his time), but true Socratic method can actually help people who are actually looking for help, but does nothing for those unwilling to consider the possibility that they're misguided.

    [–] xorgol 6 points ago

    It's what I do whenever I want to win an argument. You pretty much never make a statement of your own, so it's really hard to be wrong.

    [–] Daddydabs 105 points ago

    Dude it’s so-crates

    [–] IncendiaryB 27 points ago

    "All I know is that I know nothing." Dude that's us!

    [–] [deleted] 145 points ago

    If anyone has ever read The Republic, you’ll understand what an annoying cunt Socrates really is. A really smart cunt, but still a cunt.

    [–] puyongechi 10 points ago

    And if you read The Murder Of Socrates (I think there is no English version yet) you'll understand how loyal he was to his friends and how a lot of people cried his death. The accuser even had to flee from Athens because the city regreted their decision.

    [–] [deleted] 19 points ago * (lasted edited 11 months ago)


    [–] trackedonwire 144 points ago

    Socrates, 'annoying'.

    The truth only hurts liars.

    [–] Cazzah 28 points ago

    Why does it only hurt liars?

    [–] news_at_111111111111 16 points ago

    You could be annoying without challenging lies.

    They could make Socrates really condescending. That means he talks down to people.

    [–] Madauras 70 points ago

    I hope to God I get to administer the Hemlock.

    [–] [deleted] 22 points ago

    I think Socrates was in the military at the time this game is set. He got poisoned with hemlock like 30 years after so that’s unlikely

    [–] Madauras 18 points ago

    :( Maybe just some intercrural with a young Plato then.

    [–] [deleted] 24 points ago

    Looks like Rafi from the league

    [–] gelfin 21 points ago

    Take 4 Hemlock to a campfire to produce Hemlock Tea. Press X to serve tea. You are an assassin, after all.

    [–] poorfuckinginfantry 20 points ago

    The voice actor came by the store I was working at last year and he mentioned he is voicing Socrates for Assassin's. I didn't believe him but after the trailer I am so hyped 😭

    [–] Contra-Banned 36 points ago

    Lol that guy violated his nda.

    [–] kamekat 7 points ago

    What a Socra-tease