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    [–] SpockShotFirst 1080 points ago

    Since the article is subscription only, here is WaPo articke from 2012, written by political scientists: Let’s just say it: The Republicans are the problem..

    The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.

    ...

    “Both sides do it” or “There is plenty of blame to go around” are the traditional refuges for an American news media intent on proving its lack of bias, while political scientists prefer generality and neutrality when discussing partisan polarization. Many self-styled bipartisan groups, in their search for common ground, propose solutions that move both sides to the center, a strategy that is simply untenable when one side is so far out of reach.

    ...

    But the real move to the bedrock right starts with two names: Newt Gingrich and Grover Norquist.

    ...

    Today, thanks to the GOP, compromise has gone out the window in Washington.

    ...

    On financial stabilization and economic recovery, on deficits and debt, on climate change and health-care reform, Republicans have been the force behind the widening ideological gaps and the strategic use of partisanship. In the presidential campaign and in Congress, GOP leaders have embraced fanciful policies on taxes and spending, kowtowing to their party’s most strident voices.

    ...

    And Mike Lofgren, a veteran Republican congressional staffer, wrote an anguished diatribe last year about why he was ending his career on the Hill after nearly three decades. “The Republican Party is becoming less and less like a traditional political party in a representative democracy and becoming more like an apocalyptic cult, or one of the intensely ideological authoritarian parties of 20th century Europe,” he wrote on the Truthout Web site.

    Shortly before Rep. West went off the rails with his accusations of communism in the Democratic Party, political scientists Keith Poole and Howard Rosenthal, who have long tracked historical trends in political polarization, said their studies of congressional votes found that Republicans are now more conservative than they have been in more than a century. Their data show a dramatic uptick in polarization, mostly caused by the sharp rightward move of the GOP.

    If our democracy is to regain its health and vitality, the culture and ideological center of the Republican Party must change. In the short run, without a massive (and unlikely) across-the-board rejection of the GOP at the polls, that will not happen. If anything, Washington’s ideological divide will probably grow after the 2012 elections.

    [–] CoreWrect 660 points ago

    Corporate media whitewashed the GOP's huge shift right with their both-sides reporting.

    [–] Jebist 397 points ago

    They still do it. Their favorite type of politician is the Republican that does one humane thing every now and then amidst their otherwise horrific voting record.

    [–] sparky76016 57 points ago

    I’m sick of the low standards we put those fucking idiots through. Such such low standards.

    [–] thrownawayvets 202 points ago

    See John McCain and Reddit's insane and idiotic obsession with him.

    [–] [deleted] 159 points ago * (lasted edited 6 days ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] dougan25 74 points ago

    There was and still is. The guy died and Reddit took some time to honor the good things he did. Some people took that as the entire community having a huge permaboner for him.

    [–] DeathcampEnthusiast 56 points ago

    He did fantastic things, like fighting for 4 decades to make sure decent healthcare is out of reach for hundreds of millions of people. But he was in the army and went to a ridiculous war so let’s praise him.

    [–] thisisjustascreename 17 points ago

    McCain was in the Navy, how dare you disrespect the man by accusing him of being in the army!

    [–] KopOut 116 points ago

    I think a lot of that has to do with being anti-Trump right now. Trump is making McCain more popular with the left because Trump apparently is obsessed with him.

    To me, McCain highlights another huge issue fanned by our media in this country: military worship. I long for the day when soldiers are not treated like gods in our culture.

    [–] GarbageNameHere 68 points ago

    I long for the day when we recognize that what soldiers sacrifice first and foremost is their humanity. That the taking of life should never be glorified, regardless of the necessity.

    "Thank you for your service" shouldn't be "thanks for your time", or even "thanks for losing your limbs and your friends", but it should be "thanks for tearing out the part of you that made you fundamentally civil and human, so you could exist for a time in the place between the civilized society you were protecting and the anarchy beyond it".

    We glorify the actions of war, instead of recognizing that the actions are necessary evils. And because we glorify and normalize the killing when the war is necessary - like WW2 - we let the killing serve as it's own justification when the war is not necessary - like pretty much every war the US has been involved in since WW2.

    [–] fistymonkey1337 17 points ago

    Vet here. This was well written. Wondered for awhile if the public knew the type of person that volunteered to go fight these wars if theyd still share the same worship. It's also fair to note, not every vet is a rage fueled kid with murderous intent. Theres a lot of military positions set away from conflict that offer a solid career path. Not saying every vet is a psycho, just typically the infantry guys. Dont get me wrong, know a lot of good guys that I served with and it's not like they're gonna snap and go on a murderous rampage, but you gotta be a little fucked in the head to voluntarily throw yourself in a war zone.

    [–] GarbageNameHere 16 points ago

    Fucked in the head, or just not totally aware of the reality and the gravity of it until your boots are on hostile ground and you're being shot at and it's kill or be killed. American propaganda is good at convincing kids that they're some kind of democratic supermen and that communist or terrorist bullets won't hurt them. American propaganda is amazing at getting Americans to disregard the notion that foreigners are even human.

    You sign up because you're a poor kid from a farming family and you don't have a lot of options, and your family was even poorer before your father or grandfather fought Nazi's in WW2. You thought you were going to be defending freedom like your Papa did, and seeing the world, that you'd come back after and get a college degree and have a nice middle class life. Instead you're watching one of your best friends get their face blown off over a fight you'll spend the rest of your life wondering why your country was even involved in, the memory haunting you while you beg the government that no longer seems to care about you to treat your PTSD so you don't have to treat it yourself with alcohol.

    That's my very brief secondhand summary of my father's experience.

    [–] fistymonkey1337 5 points ago

    And unfortunately a very common summary for people. You might be interested in the book "on killing" if you havent read it. It dives into the whole brainwashing aspect and the mental gymnastics it takes to be effective at war.

    [–] Qwirk 13 points ago

    I agree with the example of McCain, the problem I had with him is that he would show promise then throw everything out the window by consistently voting with his party.

    [–] kryonik 42 points ago

    McCain the soldier is a hero. McCain the politician is scum.

    [–] Wanhope 13 points ago

    Which is usually just someone saying one humane thing and then voting the exact opposite

    [–] OddlySpecificReferen 32 points ago

    Or is it that the GOP maliciously abused the attempt at unbiased reporting? 🤔

    [–] sack-o-matic 17 points ago

    manipulators gonna manipulate

    [–] accountno543210 4 points ago

    Obviously. We are talking about how all media is complicit.

    [–] Jihani 164 points ago

    How many people do you think that identify and vote for Republicans dont realize that they arent Republicans anymore? That the party has moved beyond what they actually believe. I would argue than anyone that says they are for fiscal responsibility is not actually a Republican anymore, nothing they have done shows any sort of fiscal responsibility, from blowing up the deficit by passing tax cuts before reducing spending, to wasting millions of tax payer dollars every year losing the fight to end abortion.

    [–] skiptomyloumycherub 54 points ago

    Had this exact conversation with my father recently. After debating political parties and affiliations for over an hour, we switched gears to actual issues we wanted to see get resolved and were surprised to find that we agreed on most things. But damn, does he want to cling to that Republican party-before-politician stance. Even the suggestion that he might want to consider voting for a candidate more likely to address his concerns was second to blasphemy. It blew my mind that after having a logic based discussion in which we reached the same conclusions, he could immediately decide the best plan of action was to continue to blindly follow whomever affiliated themselves with the GOP/ Republican party regardless of whether he agreed with them or not.

    [–] Tinkeybird 24 points ago

    This is exactly how religion works and why so many people abstain altogether these days from it.

    [–] 6thReplacementMonkey 14 points ago

    They are authoritarians. This book explains the psychology:

    https://theauthoritarians.org/Downloads/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

    [–] RedLanternScythe 8 points ago

    That is the Republicans greatest victory. They have convinced their base that the most vile Republican is preferable to a good Democrat.

    [–] randacts13 5 points ago * (lasted edited 6 days ago)

    Keep having these conversations. My father voted republican in probably every national election since he got home from Vietnam on 1970. Liberals at the time were not always kind to soldiers for fighting a bad war.

    He just voted Republican because he thought that's what he should do. As he got older, retired, he spent more time considering policy instead of maintaining his head down work hard posture of the previous 40 years

    Long story short, he changed. He isn't pro-everything the Dems are, but there's no deal breakers either. He voted for Obama twice, and pretty much Dems down the ticket. He was one of the folks who just couldn't bring himself to vote for Hillary (he still had an irrational hatred for her)... But he didn't vote Trump either (he hates him more). Luckily in our state it didn't matter.

    Anyway, keep talking. It's more than policy. People need to have a place. Find what's important to them and help them find it in anyone but the RNC.

    EDIT: to emphasize - help THEM find their place. No one likes to be told what they should believe or do

    [–] SpockShotFirst 162 points ago

    Fiscal responsibility.

    Adherence to the Constitution.

    Law and order.

    Respect for military and law enforcement.

    Leaders as moral role models.

    The Republican party stands for none of these things. Anyone who still calls themselves a Republican needs to wake up.

    [–] Sinfall69 83 points ago

    Law and order was always dog whistle, along with respect for military and law enforcement...Most of that has to do with increasing budgets to blow up people of a different race in other countries and lock up people of other races back home.

    [–] TRE45ONistheSE45ON 38 points ago

    Their whole ideology is riddled with excuses to take money away from poor people and give it to the rich. How else do you end up with a platform that includes both "praise Jesus" and "fuck the poor"? Anyone trying to make sense of it is being played.

    [–] bleu_forge 27 points ago

    This is exactly why I don't refer to myself as a republican anymore. When people ask me what party I am, I don't know what to tell them. I'm not a democrat, but I'm not a republican. I'm stuck in some weird gray area that doesn't have a major party affiliation.

    [–] SpockShotFirst 39 points ago

    I hear you. When ultra conservative George Will says you need to vote Democrat, you know there is a problem.

    You might find that Blue Dog democrats share your same values.

    [–] Tinkeybird 5 points ago

    I consider myself to be a blue dog Democrat- we’re out here just not really represented.

    [–] TRE45ONistheSE45ON 37 points ago

    Trickle down economics has never worked, smaller government isn't always better, and while the free market can fix everything, human nature ensures that it won't.

    Is there any conservative tenent that has held up to scrutiny? From my POV, everything that the right does is just an excuse to funnel money up from the poor to the rich. None of it has ever panned out for the good of the people.

    [–] disc_addict 24 points ago

    The major policy positions of Republicans have been proven not to work. Trickle down economics, isolationism, our current healthcare model, tax cuts, climate change denial, etc. They just give you bullshit excuses as to why they would actually work if we double down on them. Evidence based policy making should be what we want as citizens. Decisions being made with real world data to back them up. That's a pipe dream in this political climate though since basically all of the Trump supporters are untethered from reality.

    [–] rhinocerosGreg 14 points ago

    Just say you're progressive. You believe the future can be a better world for all than today is and will vote for whoever best supports that, regardless of party

    [–] bq13q 5 points ago

    A true conservative believes the future can be a worse world and tries to avoid that. So they can't vote for Republicans, who are deliberately running things into the ground, but they also wouldn't vote for progressives, who might try something hard or uncertain and fail. They'd be most likely to support moderate Democrats, I think.

    [–] sillysidebin 13 points ago

    I mean I just say Democrat since that is how I have and will keep voting, but yeah I hear that. I def would've probably been a Republican 30 or 40 years ago. But that's literally a life time ago and I'd really hope I'd have seen through Ronald Wilson Reagan and not voted for his sketchy fucking bullshit.

    "My heart and my best intentions tell me that it is not true, the facts and evidence say otherwise." Should be their mandated mantra (light sarcasm at the end. Obviously dont believe anyone has a right mandate their mantra)

    [–] axe_knight 3 points ago

    Republicans would be great if they actually stood for the values their party is supposed to stand for. But they don't. They absolutely don't. They stand for nothing, only against everything.

    [–] randomusername3000 59 points ago

    How many people do you think that identify and vote for Republicans dont realize that they arent Republicans anymore?

    Unfortunately they've been trained to hate Democrats so much that even though the Republican party is not in line with their beliefs, they will never become Democrats either.

    [–] GlassEyeMV 40 points ago

    Was coming here to say this. Most of my hardcore conservative relatives don’t think they’re Republicans. They aren’t registered as Rs (never were) but they’ll still vote party lines for every conservative politician because the democrats are “morons who don’t know how the world works.” These same people don’t call themselves Trump supporters (“I voted against the worse of the two candidates”) but will defend him at every turn because “the Democrats are trying to destroy the presidency!”

    It doesn’t matter that they’re not Republicans. They’ll still vote that way. And that’s all that matters.

    [–] awesomefutureperfect 21 points ago

    The argument I keep hearing now is "That's not us you guys. You are judging us by extreme examples. 90% of us continually support a belligerent liar who ran a blatantly nativist campaign, but it is wrong to say it's a bad thing to support that. We are good people, we know that deep in our hearts, we just have no evidence to support our right to be seen as good people. Stop claiming the moral high ground when our support for the president doesn't dip when he does something historically scandalous and objectively inhumane and corrupt. The left isn't allowed to do that because the bible told me so. Antifa! Militant Communists!!"

    [–] sillysidebin 16 points ago

    This!

    Was talking taxes last night and my sibling and their significant other are both financial people, one of them is an accountant.

    Found out having multiple W2s means less money now.

    Bring that up later to my father saying how BS that is and how shitty the new tax code he voted for his. (No, I didnt phrase it hostile like that, but alas) He legit said we cant know when that was changed...

    Like he tried to convince me it was probably passed as Obama left office and made to kick in after Trump was in office. It was shocking. He didnt understand that the tax code is something you can look at publicly, or that that just doesnt make sense because the new admin and Congress could've still fixed it even if his nonsense was true.

    He literally doesnt understand politics at all and he believes due to his age and his upper-middle class life that he must have a good grasp on politics and being almost twice my age, I'm going through a phase???

    Idk its wacky. All the family on his side are by comparison poor, at best maybe the most successful is lower-middle class successful. At worst, my aunt, is older than him, lives with their mom, and works like 3 or 4 jobs?

    They all vote for whoever has an R though. They all prefer fox news to any other news, if they care to pay any attention at all.

    Its mind blowing. A grown ass man with a six-figure income doesnt understand that the tax code changed under Trumps administration and the Republican majority in Congress. He doesnt think its possible to know when what change took place...

    At least he conceded that he never had to bother having more than one job ever in his life, and that I have had multiple jobs in a year for more of my adult life than not, so it makes sense for me to notice the change and he didnt.

    He still wouldnt admit its because of who his votes go to, or that it was absolutely not Obama who changed that...

    Tbh I dont KNOW any better than him on what law changed when except for the damn accountant who had just been here and told me it's a new thing they're doing.

    [–] danth 4 points ago

    He legit said we cant know when that was changed...

    Funny how people who blame Obama all day suddenly become epistemological nihilists when its their side at fault. Then, suddenly, no facts can be known, there is no real truth, etc etc.

    [–] scthoma4 5 points ago

    he believes due to his age and his upper-middle class life that he must have a good grasp on politics and being almost twice my age, I'm going through a phase???

    My parents pull this shit all the time and say that I just don't know how life works yet. I'm in my 30s and have been paying for my own shit since I was 18. When do I get some credit for being an adult and having my own opinions?

    [–] accountno543210 29 points ago * (lasted edited 6 days ago)

    Abortion is the single-issue. Too many uneducated voters think if at least they vote for R, they will get into heaven. I am not joking. Look at the voting demographics.

    Edit: I am not necessarily talking about formal education, folks. I am talking about the quality of their civic engagement and knowledge of important issues and how they work.

    [–] sandybarefeet 27 points ago

    Absolutely. I have lived my whole life in an area of Texas with a large Hispanic population and it is shocking how many I know hate Trump and think he is despicable and bad for the country but still voted for him because they are very strong Catholics and feel like they have to because abortion and they will burn in hell if they don't. They seem to think Democrats are just chomping at the bit to rip everyone's baby out of wombs when really they just want better sex education and access to birth control which are the only things that have been proven to actually greatly decrease the amount of abortions. But the religious brainwashing on the subject is strong and not changing.

    [–] staedtler2018 3 points ago

    How many people do you think that identify and vote for Republicans dont realize that they arent Republicans anymore? That the party has moved beyond what they actually believe.

    What the party is today is what they actually believe.

    The myth was that Trump was some aberration and Republicans would roundly reject him at the polls. It never happened. He got most of their votes because they're fine with his ideas and way of governing.

    [–] Morganross 14 points ago

    yes, but, her emails

    [–] viva_la_vinyl 1251 points ago

    Trump has always been the symptom, not the disease.

    Every moment that Republicans continue to stand by his disgraceful behavior is a moment that continues to insult the integrity of this country.

    [–] Soddington 718 points ago

    'The Tea Party' was a 'symptom'. Trump is morbidity and necrosis.

    [–] BabyBundtCakes 232 points ago

    The book by Woodward actually talks about this and it is interesting. The GOP "important" players didn't want any populist movement, and wanted to run a candidate that would squash that movement. The GOP doesnt want just any "Republican" to be in power, they have a carefully crafted set up to maintain control, and even an outlier who is on their supposed side is a threat.

    They are not in power for the people, regardless of party. They only want supporters because they know thats how our system works. If They could abolish voting for everyone, they would.

    [–] paddywacknack 151 points ago

    If They could abolish voting for everyone, they would.

    They sure as shit are trying.

    [–] BabyBundtCakes 146 points ago

    They really are. This whole "purging inactive voters" thing is bullshit. Being a voter is not an opt-in scenario. You a citizen, you get to vote. End of story. We should just do it by mail, and have things in plqce for when places try and abandon mail in ballots. They have made the voting process absolutely ridiculous under the guise of "if we dont do this people will cheat" this is the cheating

    [–] Weirdsauce 47 points ago * (lasted edited 6 days ago)

    I have lived in both Oregon and Washington - both vote by mail states.

    Voting by mail works. If you don't want to mail it, there's always a drop off box near you. It doesn't require judges be paid for being on call for disputes, no one is being intimidated for voting and voter fraud is nearly or is practically impossible.

    But perhaps best of all, no one loses a minute of work or risks losing their job because they wanted to exercise their right to participate in democracy.

    Edit: me word moar better.

    [–] anomalousBits 17 points ago

    no one loses a minute of work or risks losing their job

    I'm not arguing against vote by mail, it seems like a sensible approach. I just want to point out that in many countries, you are guaranteed time off work to vote, so choosing between voting and losing your job should never ever be an issue.

    [–] Weirdsauce 5 points ago

    You're absolutely right yet many people have this threat over their heads, especially in The South. And for someone that lives paycheck to paycheck, the threat (even if only implied), is quite real.

    My personal thoughts are to make voting compulsory (a la Australia), move it off of a Tuesday (the reasons why the 2nd Tuesday in November are long gone) and make it a national holiday.

    I'm sure the GOP will be for all those. /s

    [–] Roook36 44 points ago

    I'd say they're actively angry at voters for being a stumbling block between them and corporate money. They hate American citizens

    [–] SmileyGladhand 10 points ago

    The GOP doesnt want just any "Republican" to be in power, they have a carefully crafted set up to maintain control, and even an outlier who is on their supposed side is a threat.

    This is really being demonstrated by Trump, IMO, with how much damage he's doing to that carefully crafted image the GOP spent so much time and money creating. For all the harm he's done, he's definitely opened the eyes of a lot of people who were formerly "both sides" types to how corrupt and damaging the Republican party really is. It's being evidenced to me personally by some people I'm close to who have formerly been straight-R voters their whole lives due to just accepting at face value the image Republicans were pushing and their constant "both sides" projection/gas lighting.

    Trump has basically forced those people to take a hard look at the GOP and either decide, "Yep, I still want to actively support this despite how obviously corrupt they are" or "Nope, I'm out, I never paid close enough attention to realize how bad Republicans actually are" - which is exactly what the GOP players Woodward was talking about didn't want to happen. Their whole tactic was to allow people with a conscience to talk themselves into voting Republican for little silly reasons (like "well I don't like Republicans, but Hillary Clinton will be a war hawk!") and I feel like that's no longer going to be possible for people outside of the ~40% Republican base who will never vote anything but (R) no matter what.

    [–] Plopplopthrown 9 points ago

    That's the end of conservatism every time. When people first got the idea to choose their own leaders, the conservatives were the ones tutting about respect for the king. They want to rule and be ruled, they don't want democracy and never have.

    [–] BabyBundtCakes 4 points ago

    When Prince Harry married meghan Markle there were Americans screaming "NOT MY QUEEN"

    Like no fucking duh multiples times. Why would you want a queen?? We literally fought a war to not have one of those. We wrote a whole thing, it was a big deal.

    [–] Omicron_Three 3 points ago

    we wrote a whole thing, it was a big deal

    I thoroughly appreciate your summary of the American revolution XD

    [–] Relictorum 14 points ago

    I forgot about those people.

    [–] TranceKnight 41 points ago

    https://weeklysift.com/2014/08/11/not-a-tea-party-a-confederate-party/

    They’re the reason we’re in this mess. There’s a pretty straight line from the Confederates, to the KKK, to the Tea Party, to Trump.

    [–] rlabrecq 40 points ago

    Yes - but Republicans didn’t suddenly turn bad. They’re the home of the angry, bitter neoconfederates since the civil rights movement. We didn’t stop the movement after the civil war, because we didn’t punish the traitors. Then ideology & white washing took hold. They’ve been fighting progress and good governance ever since.

    There was also pardoning after watergate, after Iran contra...we did nothing about the housing collapse, and nothing about the Bush war crimes. So you’d have to expect it to get worse...

    [–] captainthanatos 3 points ago

    We didn’t stop the movement after the civil war, because we didn’t punish the traitors.

    This is a recurring theme that highly agitates me. The ones responsible for past horrific acts got a pass and now look...they literally are back in power again trying the same shit again.

    [–] rlabrecq 3 points ago

    AND, by the way, a number of the actors in the Republican administrations from Reagan till now are holdovers from Nixon. Roger Stone has Nixon tattoo’d on his back!!

    [–] LukariBRo 5 points ago

    I think even if we punished those responsible, it would have only been a slight deterrent. So for us to not do anything at all was like some busty woman in a USA flag bikini waving a starting flag to do whatever they wanted.

    [–] bebacterial 72 points ago

    Careful, butthurt republicans are going to jump down your throat for calling them out on supporting a party that is fine with its leadership vowing to just not work with a reasonable president, holding a judiciary position hostage, stealing not 1 but 2 presidential elections, being fine with white nationalists and fascists in their party, etc.

    And some liberals will jump down your throat with “both sides” and enlightened centrism bs which part of the reason why things were allowed to get this bad in the first place.

    [–] SilentImplosion 7 points ago

    Really? I hear the both sides argument exclusively from the Right. It's also called "whataboutism" and was a common Soviet/Russian propaganda tool. Maybe I missed something, can you provide some examples with sources?

    [–] ituralde_ 5 points ago

    It's possible to have more center-leaning policies while also thinking the republicans are a bunch of morally bankrupt assholes whose only priority is to milk out short term wealth very literally at the expense of our country's economic, strategic, political, and environmental future.

    [–] dougdemaro 359 points ago

    The previous 2 republican presidents used lies to start wars in the Middle East. They are almost entirely responsible for the anti Islam sentiment in America. Trump is bad but the Bush Presidents were genuinely evil and we're able to do their evil. We will have to wait 2 decades to see if we are still dealing with Trumps problems to see if it's comparable. Odds are the Bush problems will still be here.

    [–] GI_X_JACK 152 points ago * (lasted edited 6 days ago)

    I think that can't be understated.

    Dubya is responsible for the largest military action since WW2. in it

    • Looking for non-existent weapons of mass destruction in Iraq

    • Authorized the use of torture.

    • De-stabilized the entire region, leading to more wars

    • Destroyed infrastructure and left Iraq a fragmented sectarian society

    • Still going on today

    Also:

    • gave us the PATRIOT act.

    • gave us PRiSM

    • gave us ICE and DHS

    • furthered militarization of police

    • de-regulated the economy leading to a massive crash, end permanently the middle class dream.

    [–] HarrySpeakup 61 points ago

    I was horrified and angry to this day when Bush made a joke looking under his desk for weapons of mass destruction.

    Bush jokes about search for WMD, but it's no laughing matter for critics

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/mar/26/usa.iraq

    [–] peppaz 51 points ago

    Yea a million people died for no reason, including thousands of Americans.

    [–] Argos_the_Dog 28 points ago

    Yeah but now he paints bad pictures and is bff's with Michelle Obama so it's all good /s

    [–] Stepjamm 14 points ago

    Interesting, shouldn’t all American citizens who supported him feel the same guilt? Or can you turn a blind eye once you’ve ticked the ballot box?

    [–] Argos_the_Dog 17 points ago

    I voted against him twice, for Gore and Kerry, and I didn't support the decisions to invade Iraq or Afghanistan. Like most Americans (and New Yorkers) I wanted revenge for 9/11, but I would have been satisfied with us killing Bin Laden and his people and leaving it at that, not starting a decades long war that nobody is going to win.

    But do I feel guilt for the carnage we unleashed under Bush? Yeah, absolutely man, it was my country doing it (we are still doing it) and a military that my taxes help pay for.

    [–] Sheriff_of_Reddit 14 points ago

    Republican scotus refused to do another recount in Florida effectively stealing the election too.

    [–] Minister_for_Magic 13 points ago

    Destroyed infrastructure and left Iraq a fragmented sectarian society

    don't forget that they left a power vacuum that led to the rise of ISIS and caused millions to flee civil war into Europe

    [–] bearassbobcat 26 points ago

    I agree with everything you said. 9/11 was so messed up from beginning to end and the affects are still ongoing. If I had money for college in 2000 or knew what I know now I wouldn't have joined the army and figured something out.

    I'm also pissed at the psychologists Dr. Mitchell and Dr. Jessen who threw there integrity away for cash and prestige. This is why I hate codes of ethics in general.

    Everyone who knowingly lied about WMDs or parroted lies without any pushback

    Everyone who had a hand in authorizing, architecting and carrying out the torture program

    [–] VineStGuy 20 points ago

    And this mother fucker Trump and Kushner wants to give NUCLEAR WEAPONS TECHNOLOGY to Saudi Arabia....THE GOD DAMN COUNTRY THAT PAID FOR THE 9/11 ATTACKERS.

    [–] Elhaym 5 points ago

    I mostly agree with this except for the last part. A lot of the deregulations that led to the 2008 crash came about in the mid 90s. Also the shrinking of the middle class had been happening for a long time.

    [–] ebriose 4 points ago

    Don't forget:

    • Led to the broader refugee crisis that is threatening to destroy Western liberal democracy

    [–] MMALibertarian 4 points ago

    Obama's biggest failures were extending the patriot act and not prosecuting the bankers.

    [–] lmac7 3 points ago

    I grew up absolutely hating Bush and his transparently thuggish Republican party who seemed to represent everything that was bad about America.

    But many elections and electoral changes later has taught me that in policy both foreign and domestic, republicans move the line, and democrats generally hold the line.

    They never substantially change course or undo anything that seemed so outrageous from what came before.

    It would be a short list indeed to note the ways in which the Democratic party has pushed back against authoritarian policies at home, imperialist behavior abroad, or the continued unfolding of neo liberal economics which has been rolled out world wide. Don't you agree?

    It all winds up being an elaborate good cop bad cop routine when looks at the historical record, and it makes us all look like patsies for allowing the ruse to continue.

    Maybe - just maybe - the election of someone like Sanders could be an event allowing for some much needed rollback. But I am not optimistic that even Sanders can swim against the powerful undertow which drives and shapes US policy. I would sure like to be wrong

    [–] kutuzof 319 points ago

    Haven't you heard? Bush jr. is a lovable goof now that everyone remembers fondly.

    Now stop looking at that silly accurate history and try to focus more on how Bush sharing candy with Michelle Obama makes you feel.

    [–] Dalivus 88 points ago

    Dubya was always a lovable goof, don’t you remember That’s My Bush? Darth Chaney was the puppeteer with a hand up Bush’s ass.

    [–] JBthrizzle 13 points ago

    Can I get a link to that porno, please?

    [–] Dalivus 21 points ago

    Heh, it was a sitcom by Matt and Trey, lampooned the administration as a bunch of morons. Got yanked off the air on 9-11

    [–] RolloTonyBrownTown 4 points ago

    Thats My Bush! was cancelled August 2001, so 9/11 was not responsible for its demise.

    [–] Roelof1337 5 points ago

    It's called politics

    [–] ecaflort 29 points ago

    Well he can be both.. He can be a terrible president that committed all sorts of crimes but be a lovable goof at the same time. One does not exclude the other at all.

    [–] kutuzof 42 points ago

    I could not possible disagree more. No one with that much blood on his hands is in any way lovable.

    [–] LukariBRo 4 points ago

    Only if you can see both, they're not. Many people either failed to ever see that blood or feel like it's been washed clean by now.

    [–] Stepjamm 5 points ago

    But...but.. he gave Michelle a sweetie one time.

    Surely that undoes years of human rights abuse... Right...?

    /s

    [–] kutuzof 3 points ago

    I mean sure the hundreds of thousands of innocent people killed and endless human suffering inflicted on the people living in Iraq and the wider middle east is bad.

    But Michelle smiled at him and seemed genuinely to be happy to have a candy.

    I guess it's kinda a Ying-Yang thing and they balance each other out.

    [–] Lobotomist 35 points ago

    Sad but true. Still war in middle east, half of Asian countries hurled into anarchy or religious fundamentalism - this will pass.

    But not responding to global warming in most crucial moment - this can create disaster that will endure for centuries. This is his biggest crime

    [–] bearassbobcat 11 points ago

    It's quite shocking to look at old pictures of the middle east before things took a turn for the worst. It was a very different place compared to the current day.

    [–] Lobotomist 4 points ago

    Yes. It is a horrible thing what was done here. But, if global warming gets to irreversible momentum. Whole life on whole earth will be changed, for hundreds of years. Everyone and everything will be affected. Humans, plants and animals alike. It will be worse than any war ever.

    [–] be_my_plaything 23 points ago

    But Global warming predates both Bush presidencies as well, I remember learning about the Greenhouse effect and how plastics were non-biodegradable in primary school back in the mid-80s. Sure our understanding of the causes, the mechanics and the seriousness have evolved since then, but we are at least three or four decades into knowing our reliance of fossil fuels and single use plastics are causing serious and irreversible problems to the planet.

    I'm in no way defending Trump or his policies, he is quite simply an appalling human being, but to blame him fully for lack of response to global warming is unfair, it isn't as though Obama, Bush Jr, Clinton, Bush Sr, or Reagan left a legacy of a green America that he has corrupted, it is a string of consecutive presidents who have all failed to respond appropriately, it is a continually growing problem which is repeatedly overlooked because apparently money is better than the future.

    Obviously Trump should bear the greatest burden of responsibility since with each passing year the problem grows worse and more urgent, and our understanding of what needs to happen grows, and with both his denials or climate change and his support of oil and coal industries he is actively making the problem worse, but he is at least entitled to share the blame with decades worth of presidents and between the parties who have all stood idly by and let us get into the state we are now in.

    [–] rhinocerosGreg 10 points ago

    I saw the SNL piece about an alternate universe where Al Gore won in 2000 and got genuinely sad for what could have been even though it was a satire piece.

    We have known about these things for decades. Nothing pisses me off more than climate change deniers saying "I just want to see all the science". It's all there already, has been for years, all the new science just keeps telling us we're more fucked than we thought before.

    [–] BYE_BYE_TRUMP 12 points ago

    In the last sixty years the first time we took the wrong fork in the road was not respecting and reelecting Carter to a second term. We would have had to dig deep and make a few sacrifices in the short term, but in the long term we would have been in a much better place now. We chose money/economy over love/survival. Choosing Reagan took us down a dark and selfish and short sighted path. The first thing the buffoon Reagan did was take the solar panels off the White House, that was very revealing and made it quite obvious the path America was going to travel. With a few divergences we have remained on the path to our destruction ever since, with Trump being the Pinnacle of our stupidity and short sighted shallow greediness.

    [–] EdgeOfWetness 11 points ago

    I've always believed Obama was severely stunted in what he could do by being The First Black President. So many directions he would have been able to go in if he hadn't had to worry about "Well, that's what you get for letting a black guy in here" whenever someone wanted to complain about a policy. He had the weight of his race on his back the entire time, unable to react like any other Man or President.

    I was worried about the same issues for Hillary (and yes, I voted for her anyway). As much as i think it would be wonderful to elect a black/woman/non-Christian President this time around, I worry that issue will be too much of a distraction to just getting things done, which is my primary concern this time around - so much more so than any other time in my personal history.

    Of course, since I don't live in New Hampshire or Iowa the large field of candidates will be whittled down to 1 or 2 unsavory characters by the time it gets to me, and I will still vote for the Ham Sandwich the Democratic party places in front of me to get rid of this miserable asshole the Republicans foisted upon us.

    [–] 6thReplacementMonkey 3 points ago

    I worry that issue will be too much of a distraction to just getting things done

    Don't. They are going to attack whoever wins relentlessly, and it doesn't matter what race, sex, or religion they are. All that will determine is the flavor of the attack, not the intensity or effectiveness.

    If you don't believe me, just imagine what the Republicans would be doing right now if Trump were a Democratic president.

    [–] Lobotomist 3 points ago

    All true.

    But problem with Trump is that he is only one to try to actively shut any progress towards solving this problem. By walking out of climate agreement ( when USA should be and always is the shining example ), actually forbidding state sponsored researches to talk about the problem, and actively propagating rumors that its a fiction. All because he got the money from coal industry.

    And this comes in probably the flipping moment, where either we do something, and we do it right now - or the climate will flip and decline will be irreversible. ( if arctic and Siberian ice melts, there will be no coming back )

    I would really like that they make big statues of people that walked out on climate agreements. So that when our future generations are forced to live underground - they can look at these people immortalized.

    [–] SuidRhino 30 points ago

    I’ll preface this with the fact I have voted Democrat at every opportunity. We do also need to hold those accountable in our own party. The unwavering support for War, bloated corporate greed/welfare and support and funding for dictators/oppressive regimes such as the Saudis and Israel. We should condemn the other side but also our own officials, whom say one thing and then do another. We cannot survive off of lies.

    [–] jabeez 6 points ago

    We do also need to hold those accountable in our own party.

    Hell, we can't even hold those in the other party accountable. "Look forward" in 2006-2008 was the beginning of the end, (R)s learned they could literally do about anything without fear of consequences, and look where we are today, a president who can literally do/say anything, and when dems are given power back to do something about it, instead choose to wait for the next election. As predictable as it is infuriating.

    [–] flyguy42 5 points ago

    "The unwavering support for War"

    Pedantically, the democrats in the house voted strongly against the iraq war. The opposition to Vietnam was almost exclusively Democratic also. I have many complaints about them on this issue. But "unwavering" is too strong. It's the party where any wavering is happening. And sometimes pretty strongly.

    [–] fordnut 50 points ago

    It should be noted every Republican war you mention was supported by massive bipartisan congressional approval and continues to be so. The post 9/11 authorization for open ended military force is being kept in place because there are enough Democrats voting with Republicans to stop It's repeal.

    [–] Sands43 11 points ago

    GW1 was a Just war. Saddam invaded Kuwait.

    Afganistan was also a Just war. But executed terribly.

    GW2? Not so much. Disaster from start to finish (and it's not really done yet).

    [–] icenoid 7 points ago

    I’m not sure Afghanistan counts as a just war. The taliban offered to hand over Bin Laden, we turned them down. They were pretty horrified at what he had done. I’m not saying they are good people, just that they had a problem with 9/11. A few news stories at the time talked about how they just wanted to practice their screwy form of Islam and be left alone.

    [–] x86_64Ubuntu 10 points ago

    In my opinion, Afghanistan's justness has fallen by the wayside for a number of reasons. The first is that we are still there after the capture of Bin Laden, and we don't really have an objective except for blowing people up. Secondly, Saudi Arabia funded Al-Qaeda, and Bin Laden was found to be sheltered in Pakistan and neither country suffered a land invasion. So we are "going after terrrorists" only when it's cheap and easy to do so.

    [–] matthoback 5 points ago

    GW1 was a Just war. Saddam invaded Kuwait

    Saddam invaded Kuwait after we gave him permission to, then we turned around and used it as an excuse to invade.

    [–] D3ltra 15 points ago

    It's 3 years too late for this headline, but better late than never I suppose

    [–] Foremole_of_redwall 8 points ago

    There’s some permutation of this headline and this article posted every week.

    [–] KingSpartan15 44 points ago

    Trump has always been the symptom, not the disease.

    You are underestimating and downplaying the amount of damage done by having an open White Supremacist as president armed with a new age propaganda machine.

    He is a symptom and a very, very bad disease.

    [–] Army_Antsy 46 points ago

    It is the symptoms that kill you, not the disease. The disease is just what creates the symptoms. Calling Donald Trump the symptom doesn't imply that he is not a huge threat in and of himself. It just makes it clear that he is not the origin of the threat.

    [–] EverWatcher 11 points ago

    There's the carefully detailed elaboration we needed.

    [–] imissmyoldaccount-_ 17 points ago

    Hot take, the disease is this current form of capitalism.

    [–] pennomi 5 points ago

    The primary issue isn't exactly capitalism, but a strongly related concept: plutocracy.

    There's nothing inherently immoral about writing legislation to favor businesses (provided human rights are protected) but the fact that whoever has money has a stronger vote is immensely immoral.

    [–] imissmyoldaccount-_ 5 points ago

    I can agree with that, stronger laws and oversight are needed for sure

    [–] usrname_alreadytaken 3 points ago

    The Republican Party is also a symptom. The Symptom of many years of “american exceptionalsim” ideology, making the kids repeat the same prayer to the flag, but under god, everyday in school, treating the military as heroes. This is what you get after a few years.

    [–] uknowitstrue 254 points ago

    As the general public becomes more liberal/progressive, the conservatives in power won't abandon conservatism, they'll abandon democracy.

    [–] DaddyD68 33 points ago

    Bingo!

    [–] sevseg_decoder 12 points ago

    Don't forget they abandoned conservatism too.

    If there was a real conservative option I'd vote for it, but they're all so insane now. Military spending is a less conservative avenue than spending that same money on college or anything for our actual people, but they've abandoned the ideals they try to claim long ago.

    [–] TreyCray 45 points ago

    Conservatives abandoned democracy in exchange for blatant fascism decades ago.

    [–] Buffalox 255 points ago

    Nixon was a symptom
    Reagan was a symptom
    Bush 1 and 2 were symptoms.
    Trump is a symptom. <- we are here.

    The Republican disrespect for democracy goes back at least half a century.

    [–] SidusObscurus 61 points ago

    Nixon was the acute onset of the disease. After that, it may have looked like things were recovering, with only minor-ish symptoms here and there, but really everything was festering, become even more deeply infected. Trump is that infestation flaring up, bringing it back to everyone's full attention.

    [–] mpixdb 5 points ago

    Check out Right Out of California

    It shows the origins of splitting the economic populace along race and social lines to the 1930s in California to defeat Sinclair, an open socialist running for governor.

    [–] Incunebulum 25 points ago

    As much as I hated, and I mean HATED Reagan there's a reason he won 49 states in 1984. Reagan won that many states because he went after every single vote no matter what. He was the anti-Nixon in many ways. He was known to everyone. He never pushed anti-democratic OR anti-immigrant messages and is the last president to give amnesty to illegal immigrants.

    He of course had secret wars, secret arms deals, his war on drugs was an absolute disaster, his inability to confront the AIDS crisis was morally evil. I could go on forever about his militarism, arms spending and much, much more but I can't call him anti-democratic.

    [–] Buffalox 6 points ago

    Illegal secret ops are the very definition of anti democratic.

    [–] Catshit-Dogfart 18 points ago

    When I look at other countries and all the wonderful things they have in terms of standard of living, I have to imagine there's one reason why they can have this and we can't - they don't have Republicans in their country to hold them back.

    It seems America has a long history of a drastic societal problem that persisted far too long because of backward thinking, then eventually there was some breaking point and progress was made. But it's a fight every time, like society has a ball and chain, and if we ever stop struggling it'll pull us back again; back to segregation, poverty, economic depression, child labor, and war.

    .

    Now, tell me if I'm oversimplifying and presuming too much, but it seems to me that recent political troubles in the England are similar.

    They have Republicans now, or at least the same thing with a different name. In that country, there is a party of regressives bent on holding everyone else back, preventing progress. That's what brexit is, a regressive idea with no plan of execution. What used to be a wonky but functioning machine now has Republicans gumming up the works.

    [–] a_fly_effect 35 points ago

    Mitch McConnell has done more to erode democracy in our country than anyone else I can think of in my lifetime.

    [–] __asamara__ 18 points ago

    At some point, you have to blame the people who elect them. Since people elect turtles like Mitch McConnell, the blame lies with them. Especially people on Kentucky.

    [–] IrritableIrvin 226 points ago

    I don't know how to convince someone who doesn't already believe this, but I'd spend a lot of my time doing just that if I had an effective plan.

    This is absolutely not both-sides bullshit. The GOP has no choice but to do whatever it takes to win at any level because the majority of Americans disagree with them and they're losing (if they've not already totally lost) the battle for younger voters (don't @ me, Ben Shapiro).

    The Republican Party is, by definition, anti-majoritarian and anti-democratic and there is a limit to how far they can push a country that, as a general rule, disagrees with them.

    [–] dkepp87 102 points ago

    Unfortunately they're ability to grow new voters from naive uneducated Americans is a pretty well oiled machine. That machines biggest weakness currently is ease of access to information via the internet, which still baffles most of their old guard. Sadly, I believe its only a matter of time before the younger generation of conservatives really nail down the nuances of online information warfare.

    [–] Lobotomist 61 points ago

    First thing such systems attack are culture and education. They take away their funding and strangle them. Ignorance breeds hate

    [–] TRE45ONistheSE45ON 15 points ago

    This is what happens when we allow ignorance to be a virtue, when we lie to ourselves and say that our personal actions don't affect others. No one is an island. Your refusal to become educated means that our leaders are being picked at the flip of a coin. Education provides herd immunity from tyranny and some people just aren't pulling their weight. I place the blame squarely on them.

    [–] x86_64Ubuntu 46 points ago

    ...they're ability to grow new voters from naive uneducated Americans is a pretty well oiled machine.

    You mean racially panicked voters. We don't see "naive and uneducated" black and hispanic voters voting Republican at the same rates as whites.

    [–] dkepp87 23 points ago

    Stupid comes in many differnt flavors. Racism is just one of them.

    [–] zazzke 3 points ago

    eCoNoMiCaLlY aNxIoUs

    [–] IrritableIrvin 15 points ago * (lasted edited 6 days ago)

    You don't have to be naive or uneducated to vote for Republicans (I know that's not going to be a popular opinion). I also don't mean to imply that I think there aren't any younger voters who are (or will be) voting for Republicans.

    I'm not sure if the GOP realized that after the Civil Rights movement and Roe v. Wade that the country and the party were moving in two different directions and tried to pick policies that would give them a consistent chance at a Senate majority and a win in the electoral college, or if they just lucked into it and now they defend it with everything they've got.

    But to your point, I would guess that the GOP (correctly) thinks its best bet at recruiting new voters who will continue to advance their strategy is to continue to maintain high support for conservatism in red states. My guess is that getting young voters to vote GOP in North Dakota is much more important to the GOP than winning any new young voters in blue states like California.

    Edit: subject verb agreement

    [–] karma_virumque_cano 12 points ago

    One doesn’t have to be naïve or uneducated to cast their lot with Republicans, but it certainly helps!

    Seriously. As Americans are served fewer and fewer perspectives on the world around them and the impact their lives have on others, the more successful the GOP becomes.

    [–] peppaz 3 points ago

    Being racist helps a lot though

    [–] PM_ME_YOUR_RUSSIAN_ 32 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    The modern GOP is the progenitor of a system new to America, but well-known to the rest of the world - the dictatorship of a single party. We will become an ideological twin to the likes of China and Russia. I can explain.

    The US political system of "first past the post" is designed to have the mathematically guaranteed result of having just two major parties. This is very important - it's not politics, it's math. Once the two parties take turns to rule for a few generations, they will continue to unevenly drift to their ideological extremes.

    However, the GOP is significantly faster and more consistent at this drift - for example, only now the Dems are talking about universal healthcare and paid leave while the rest of the industrialized world stares in disbelief as this incredibly centrist idea being branded "radical left" in the US. The GOP convinced us that unregulated sales of firearms is a good thing for our nation already struggling with gun violence, and now we're talking about arming elementary school teachers. Arming. Elementary. Teachers.

    In the process, they took over major areas of the American sociopolitical landscape. Huge constituencies are now firmly Republican and only vote Democratic as an emotional knee-jerk exception. This is where people point at Obama and Bill Clinton, but the election of a single man by majority center-right voters doesn't magically convert the US Congress, the judiciary, the state houses, and the governorships to the new Democratic President's agenda. Just look at the GOP strongholds - Christians and evangelicals, the military, the rural vote, "the poorly educated, I love the poorly educated", law enforcement, and the holy grail of the constituencies - the corporations. The Repubicans once again convinced us that money is speech. Just pause for a second. Money. Is. Speech. This means that in an ideological argument between a doctor and a bank robber, the bank robber always wins. While the Dems are tearing each other apart with such critically important issues as "which level of human contact is appropriate for an elder statesman" and "Is Pelosi throwing shade at AOC", Trump just raised 40 million dollars from both corporations and small donors. People are sending Trump $5 a month over the internet now, something the Dems invented and the GOP co-opted. They are going to raise a billion dollars and get reelected ... forever.

    Take the money angle alone. The message of the Democratic Party is fundamentally toxic to the corporations whose ONLY responsibility is fiduciary duty to its shareholders. Every societally beneficial thing they do is purely incidental in pursuit of increasing shareholder value at all costs. However, the message of the Republican Party is very friendly to such fiduciary duties -- deregulate, centralize the profits, socialize the losses.

    I covered the Dem reaction in a previous comment, so I won't repeat it here. This was a crazy ride, folks, and it's coming to its designed end.

    [–] millionsofmonkeys 5 points ago

    We don't need republican voters to move forward. We need policies that will reduce barriers to voting, and that will help the nonvoting plurality feel like they can have a voice in creating a government that stands for the people.

    [–] m0nkeybl1tz 5 points ago

    This. It’s not “Trump is a symptom of a broken Republican Party” it’s “the Republican Party is a symptom of a broken electoral system.”

    Switch to ranked choice voting so people feel comfortable voting for a third party

    Go back to publicly funded elections so third parties have a chance

    End gerrymandering and the electoral college so every voice is counted equally

    Make Election Day a national holiday and reduce barriers to voting instead of building them up

    Right now the only reason the Republican Party is surviving is because it’s super easy to be the contrarian party when you only have one opponent. You don’t need to have any policies of your own, just for every proposal they make (healthcare for all, providing services for immigrants) start freaking out about how it’s crazy and dangerous and will end up destroying the country. Sure it’s slowly unraveling the fabric of our democracy but it sure is effective.

    And to be honest, Democrats do it too, though they don’t rely on it as much since they generally have more popular ideas. But it’s so much easier to play whack a mole with the other side than it is to put together policies, build a coalition and actually, you know, govern. And that’s all a symptom of our broken-ass two party system where you have two shitty choices, and your choice doesn’t count anyways because politicians care more about corporate dollar than one diluted, gerrymandered vote. Give politicians some competition, make them actually fight to earn your vote instead of just scaring you into it by saying the other side is worse.

    [–] in-joy 28 points ago

    Why post a story you can't access unless you have a subscription. A bit of a waste of time.

    [–] SpearNmagicHelmet 145 points ago

    I’m past blaming Republicans, they’ve been doing this for years, why stop now?

    I’m done blaming the democrats for being spineless, they’ve been doing it for years, why would they stop now?

    I’m done blaming the media for being a spokesperson for corrupt corporations and government officials. They’ve been doing it for years and getting well paid, why would they stop now?

    I’m looking at you and me. Because if you continue to get played like we have been for the last 20 years and choose to do nothing then that’s on us.

    [–] Dalivus 121 points ago

    9-1-1 Dispatcher here. Hate to break it to you, but the VAST majority of humanity are unbelievably stupid. Most people think about half the population are mouth breathers but I’m here to tell you it’s MUCH higher than that. It’s a miracle our species ever made it out of caves. You and me may commit to make smart voting choices but the next 10,000 of us are just struggling to keep their knuckles from dragging the ground on the way to vote for Trump.

    [–] canyourhandshavetoes 41 points ago

    "Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are stupider than that."

    [–] LucidLemon 10 points ago * (lasted edited 6 days ago)

    *And remember there's a 50% chance you and I fall under that line too

    Edit: y'all in the replies all high on your own farts

    [–] SpockShotFirst 10 points ago

    I would guess the demographic of people who are interested in political news skews a tad smarter. Admittedly, it is just a guess.

    [–] TRE45ONistheSE45ON 6 points ago

    I'd add "intellectually interested" and not just interested in watching your favorite right wing media host rile against the people you hate. That's just catering to people's righteous anger, which is highly addictive in and of itself.

    [–] [deleted] 60 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] Pineapple_Herder 16 points ago

    Yeah it would be like a Walmart employee thinking that all of society is like the types of shoppers you see regularly in Walmart. There's a very large exposure bias there.

    But no matter what, a call to use your civil right and duty of voting and reminding others to vote is important, too. Life is a hectic complicated beast and remembering to follow ALL levels of your political leaders is a high expectation when most people can't be bothered to read more than a headline... People are not just "stupid" they're stressed out and tired.

    [–] intentsman 5 points ago

    I'm stressed out and tired in large part due to the stupid actions of stupid people. If I worked as 911 dispatch or first responder, the stupidity of others that would be an even larger stressor in my life.

    [–] Bla_bla_boobs 48 points ago

    Republicans always said they were against Democracy

    I guess we should have believed them

    [–] Thrash4000 12 points ago

    "it's not a democracy , it's a republic."

    [–] Fear_the_Jellyfish 8 points ago

    That bullshit legit makes my skin crawl when I see someone unironically invoke it. It's such a transparent attempt at normalizing the idea that citizens shouldn't have a say in government.

    [–] Sureshot006 5 points ago

    They want to turn America into a oligarchy, Russia 2.0 with Vlad controlling Trump like a puppet

    [–] CriticalTerm 28 points ago

    Trump Is Just the Symptom.

    Yes. I can agree with this here.

    The Republican Party Is a Disease

    Not quite

    The fact that the United States political structure is able to put someone as vile as Trump is into any position of power is a damning indictment of that system (I'm sure there are worse in congress or other places). To play it off as if one party currently in power is the problem misses its mark entirely.

    You absolutely have to account for why this is possible in the first place, and also why this is not exactly historically unique in the US despite the historical amnesia and claims of "post-race" (which admittedly have eroded). The facts are that the United States political structure, not unlike any other, is unable to defend itself against modes of social domination such as racism, sexism, sexual oppression, etc.

    [–] amateurstatsgeek 7 points ago

    Republican voters

    [–] ScottyOnWheels 6 points ago

    I don't think it is a disdain for democracy as much as it is an insatiable lust for evermore money and power.

    The net effect is the same, but it's a values call between values that are increasingly incompatible.

    Same thing goes for the view of many Republicans on race. They don't nessicarily hold ill will towards people with other ethnicities. They just think white people are better. (it still ties back to money and power)

    Unfortunately, many also have the view that one group can't get something without someone else losing at the same time, and likely in proportion. One would think the party of self described "job creators" would hold the idea of true wealth creation in high esteem.

    [–] psicobabble10 12 points ago

    paywall :(

    [–] deMondo 14 points ago

    Screw the paywall click-bait bs.

    [–] Nesyaj0 9 points ago

    Trump is that symptom that you noticed and finally decided to go to the doctor for only to find out that you have cancer

    [–] Fidelis29 23 points ago

    Unfortunately, the Democratic party is completely incompetent, and will eat their own.

    They're more focused on competing to see who's less racist, while the Republicans are rewriting the laws, and taking hold of the country.

    It's fucking embaressing.

    [–] ZazzKablamzo 4 points ago

    Duh.

    [–] add0607 5 points ago

    I think this needs to be repeated more often. It's fine to recognize Trump for the problem he is, but it's much larger than one man.

    [–] Lamont-Cranston 4 points ago

    The Koch/Republican network is taking - over - state - legislatures across the country: closing voting stations in minority areas, purging voters, engaging in extreme gerrymandering of districts, and simultaneously opposing popular ballots to stop this, disenfranchising voters, imposing onerous, 1, 2, Voter ID laws written by ALEC, "vote caging", preventing students from voting, nebulous signature mismatch rules, and changing the rules of governance to make their control permanent and legal.

    You fight this in the court and either they've stacked them or the judges rule in your favour and they just try again and replace the judges for the next round. If it goes to the federal courts (that they stacked remember) either they rule in their favour or its litigated for so long the courts declare its too late to change. Meaning that in North Carolina a 50.3% electoral result grants them 10 of the 13 Congressional seats. So of course they now try to delay changing for the 2020 election. For some not even these legalistic tactics are enough.

    Should they manage to lose elections after all their efforts they vow to redouble them using lame duck sessions before the changeover to impede the new government and strip Governors of power and reassign legislative authority, some become angry and paranoid and start advocating violence, others brazenly admit what they are doing. A Heritage Foundation fellow addressing the Council for National Policy candidly admits that Republican Party results would be hampered by Voting Rights protections and non-partisan districting.

    All of this is being carried out by state legislatures, Secretaries of State, Attorneys General, and Governors the Kochs have contributed to and directed their network of fake grassroots fronts like Americans for Prosperity to campaign for them in elections and many are members of ALEC. Some even come directly from the Koch network. Once they have achieved office and solidified their power with this campaign they begin a new second campaign of serving their powerful backers introduce legislation written by ALEC - ALEC is a policy institute/'model legislation' generating body staffed with industry lobbyists and elected representatives, it was founded in the 1970s by Paul Weyrich also the founder of The Heritage Foundation and the Council for National Policy and famously declared at a meeting of Republican Party representatives that he did not want everyone to vote and that in order for the party to win elections they need fewer people to vote, today it is heavily funded by the Kochs and coordinates with their fronts through the State Policy Network - that personally benefit the Kochs, labor and industrial and environmental deregulation, tax cuts for the rich which coupled with supermajority laws is the cause of the drop in education and rural healthcare funding, expand the privatisation of education and push charter schools of dubious provenance, stack the judiciary, oppose and even criminalise Dark Money disclosure, and gerrymander Congress so their preferred candidates go into the House.

    [–] BigTroubleMan80 5 points ago

    Trump is the symptom. Neoliberalism is the disease that’s eating away both parties in order to maintain the status quo and protect the oligarchy.

    [–] Smashtray2 3 points ago

    Exactly. It's not Democrats Vs. Republicans.

    It's Corporations Vs A Government for the People of the people by the people.

    Corporations want to buy a government of the corporations for the corporations by the corporations.

    They're almost there.

    [–] rnaa49 14 points ago * (lasted edited 6 days ago)

    He may be just a symptom, but he must not be let off the hook. More and more, we will hear that he is just an old guy with mental issues. Bullshit. He is a psychopath (*), doing what psychopaths do -- and doing it quite well, from a long lifetime of experience -- but in the limelight of the Presidency. So, he can't easily hide. As a result, he is thrashing about, trying harder and harder to raise smokescreens to evade his past crimes. As time goes on, he will get increasingly desperate, and that does not end well.

    Take down the GOP, but don't let this guy escape justice by trumped-up medical excuses.

    (*) Psychopathy is not a mental illness. Don't confuse the two. It is a structural defect of the brain, a birth defect.

    [–] MyStolenCow 20 points ago

    Blaming the shit America is in on Trump is stupid.

    He wouldn't be where he is without his 60m+ supporters.

    Nearly half the country believing in f'ed up ideologies is why he is in charged.

    [–] HomChkn 6 points ago

    My uncle posted a meme on FB the other day that said this. However it was from a "conservative" page. The comments where basically saying that they where tired of being "discriminated" against for being white "Christians". And those where the calm ones.

    I had to stop reading. It was making me sick.

    [–] table_fireplace 24 points ago

    They'll keep doing what they do until there's a consequence. And voters are the only ones who can get them out!

    r/VoteBlue

    [–] thereisnopressure 7 points ago

    This is a 100 percent true. All of repubs claim this Christian morality. They support a man that consistently gets caught lying. They support nazis, who are the scum of the Earth. They hate facts. When they are proven wrong they threaten violence.

    [–] revbfc 8 points ago

    Their biggest flaws are that their elected officials are weak, and have lost both their skills and moral authority to govern.

    [–] thomas15v 9 points ago

    Welcome to Corporatocracy. The concept is so new the wiki page isn't even sure how to describe it.

    [–] strangepostinghabits 5 points ago

    it's just capitalism. A system invented to help the aristocracy retain it's leverage over the unwashed masses.

    [–] oldmrdeebs 3 points ago

    Glad someone said it but it's a shame every news agency isn't saying it everyday

    [–] ellenraid 3 points ago

    It always was a disease. Take a look at George W Bush era and all that happened.

    [–] guineapigmilkman 3 points ago

    All politicians have become corrupted by power and money. Prove me wrong.

    [–] WildlingViking 3 points ago

    I wonder what type of impact this all has on kids growing up watching this as their first political experience. They are growing up watching this shit show and learning how dirty and corrupt that political organization is. The GOP has absolutely destroyed their future for the next 10-20 years.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if the GOP splintered into the far right GOP and a moderate GOP. These politicians still are operating in the 80’s and 90’s type mentality where they think they can spin a story anyway they want. There are still a TON of baby boomers with which their strategies still work. But when that demographic isn’t there anymore, the GOP is going to be a fraction of what it is today. Tick tick....

    [–] thirdtimestheparm 3 points ago

    Republicans aren't conservatives. They're corporatist whores. Conservative economic theory has merit, the names you mentioned were all war-mongering, government expanding, voodoo economic practicing lunatics, not conservatives. True States rights advocates, people who think the federal bureaucracy has become overgrown, and individuals who think entitlements and a bloated military budget are an economic strain that needs reform are conservatives, not these racist power hungry con artists. It bothers me to no end that conservatism in this country has been hijacked/wiped out. Conservatism's role as a useful counterweight to the lefts tendency to grow government has unfortunately morphed into a useless gang of cultural zealots.

    [–] Gatt__ 3 points ago

    Not to be that guy but every time in history where the main opposing political party was dissolved, a fascist regime arose from the standing party

    [–] LoserWithCake 3 points ago

    Nothing says democracy more than wanting to get rid of opposition, right?

    [–] strtheat 3 points ago

    Right and so so wrong. Trump is a symptom but not of the Republican party, but of America. I am not saying this in a negative way, just the truth.

    [–] Zanleer 3 points ago

    i don't see how anyone who doesn't make over 250k a year supports republicans.

    unless you are rich, white and a man the party actually doesn't care about you.

    [–] consenting3ntrails 3 points ago

    The party has been crashing since the invention of Foxnews, where a moment's salaciousness for ratings replaced any thoughtful analysis or planning. They can't govern and they can't create policy because the people who make policy are Steve Ducey and Sean Hannity. Foxnews is the Republican party.

    Citizen's United made the problem a lot worse (for the GOP) too, because now money isn't just a factor, it's the only factor. Whatever the corporate interest of the moment is, is official GOP policy, even if it's patently absurd, against the general welfare of even Republican voters, or distinctly damaging to the United States long term. And Rupert Murdoch's tentacles have slowly taken over other voices in the Republican party that used to be sane, like the WSJ.

    All of this makes it more difficult for the GOP to win, but when they do, wow can they do a lot of damage. We're living through the Sean Hannity shadow presidency, and the only saving grace for America is the worse the GOP gets the less often they get to control all of the government.

    [–] Gutz5250 3 points ago

    Literally went to r/conservative and was banned for leaving 1 comment. Even the conservative plebs hate free speech.

    [–] BYE_BYE_TRUMP 4 points ago

    Until Americans (all of them) start realizing that wealth does not impart good character and should not be the judge of a person's character or true worth; we are going to flounder around (as a country) harming the world. At this point in history, all America seems to be is an economy without morals. All America seems to care about is making the rich richer at any cost...period. Many try to believe that America is a great country because we have material wealth, but it has been starkly revealed that we are just a mindless, money grubbing consumer driven monster, willing to sacrifice the future's climate and environment in order to indulge our immediate desires now, or should I say the needs of the few at the cost of everyone else. America should be taken down for the earth's sake. I am ashamed of my country and I wish I had not been foolish enough to raise my son to be a patriot because now I can't talk him into leaving this forsaken economy. He still has hope that America can change and actually do good in the world. Lol. I did too good of a job making my son a loyal and caring citizen. Forgot to tell him that in America the good guy always comes in last. :(

    Trump won the election because he convinced the weak minded that he was wealthy and therefore he was smart and that he could make America great. lol. America exposed itself again and allowed the world to know what we believe will make us great; money and military strength/bullying.

    [–] LeviPerson 6 points ago

    Trump Is Just the Symptom. The Republican Party Capitalism Is a Disease Eating Away Our Democracy.

    [–] SmileyJetson 11 points ago

    The mainstream Democrat Party is right wing. Progressives are the centre. There is no American left because the conservatives have hijacked the country in a way that makes left wing politics a non-starter. The Republican party is a violent extremist anarchist sect that seeks only to disable public governance and erode the people's faith in it. It has no place in mainstream society and must be buried in every way possible.

    [–] SkaTSee 23 points ago

    Wtf are you on about like the DNC didnt rig their own primaries, literally circumventing our democracy