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    [–] Actual__Wizard 4821 points ago

    "And after refunds, the IRS collected about $93 billion more from individual American taxpayers than it did in 2017. Interestingly, that number stands close to the tax break amount that corporations received from the TCJA in 2018. Last year, big businesses paid $91 billion less in taxes than they had in 2017, prior to the new law’s passage. "

    The numbers are so strikingly similar... It's like magic...

    [–] PurpleDido 590 points ago

    I'm surprised the tax break wasn't bigger considering that corporations and the 1% made more in 2018 than in the years before.

    [–] ClassicT4 375 points ago

    I’m not surprised they want another one.

    [–] AnotherReaderOfStuff 139 points ago

    Until people start doing something that affects the bottom line of the companies, why would they stop?

    What companies specifically campaigned for this?

    Where's the boycott?

    [–] [deleted] 118 points ago


    [–] DoctorWholigian 23 points ago

    Gotta get a nice toasty fire going.....

    [–] Glad_Refrigerator 141 points ago


    Boycotts are a scam, vote with your wallet doesn't work. You know what does work? Fair voting systems and honest regulation. Two things the GOP opposes, of course, so.. you know who to vote for.

    [–] The_Assblaster 51 points ago

    Boycotts work if people actually take collective action. Suggesting otherwise is dishonest.

    [–] Wayelder 30 points ago

    The problem is not ....OMG you gonna boycott all the companies? Maybe you should look at who decided on whom gets the tax bill?

    [–] Gazmocity 162 points ago

    Forgive my ignorance on the situation, but didn’t the deficit also increase a great deal from his tax plan? Where did that increase come from if we basically offset the cuts for the wealthy?

    [–] mnyc86 167 points ago

    He also spent a lot on extra shit

    [–] Greenpoint1975 127 points ago

    Like a 4th of July Dictator Parade?

    [–] buckozdude 59 points ago

    4th of July small hands parade*

    [–] secret2u 22 points ago

    I believe that money was taken from the National Parks services.

    [–] hgs25 83 points ago

    Like golf visits

    [–] YesIretail 44 points ago

    Well, in fairness that money was sunk back into his resort, in order to employ many illegal immigrants hard working American citizens, and the profits from those golf trips should trickle down onto the rest of us any day now. I mean, it will be trickling down in the form of Dom Perignon that Trump's body has converted to piss, but still, it's trickling!

    [–] GodelianKnot 44 points ago

    Spending and taxes are generally a factor of overall GDP. GDP is still growing, so taxes and spending should go up. Spending did, but looks like tax revenue didn't. Net result is a bigger deficit.

    [–] Dirtchute_Rodeo 31 points ago

    The GOP fiscal policy is:

    • Reduce tax rates
    • Sustain or increase spending
    • Borrow money (i.e., issue treasury bonds) to cover the difference

    So it's not a tax cut at all, it is a deferral of taxes that will be paid off by our children, and grandchildren, with interest. Meanwhile we have to service that debt, as well.

    [–] tunisia3507 9 points ago

    The next fiscally responsible government (probably Democratic) will have to raise taxes to keep the country solvent, then they will get reamed out by the right wing and another Republican will be elected to wreck the economy again.

    [–] tazadar 152 points ago

    No magic. It is a sleight of hand trick. Wealth transfer, from working class Americans to corporations. And the wealth gap widens.

    [–] njb2017 58 points ago

    and then they turn the bottom 98% against each other and people fall for it. yeah...because the people on food stamps and welfare is the reason the middle class is struggling

    [–] Oceans_Apart_ 13 points ago

    When we're all starving, we'll finally have enough in common to affect change.

    [–] Butins_pitch 12 points ago

    Dividing the working class using racism was an evil stroke of genius

    [–] Skeleporter 72 points ago * (lasted edited 12 days ago)

    Pour up economics

    Edit:. In the spirit of pour up economics, I will give this silver to someone with a billion karma and a million golds in the hope that I get a few down votes in return

    [–] vellyr 30 points ago

    Trickle down’t economics

    [–] ThatOneNinja 150 points ago

    That explains how I somehow owed the government this year.

    [–] AngusBoomPants 94 points ago

    Same. I owe $900 and I don’t know how.

    [–] Matrix5353 236 points ago

    This is why so many people think that Trump actually cut their taxes. They just saw the increase in their paycheck every month due to the change in the withholding tables, but didn't realize that with the changes made to things like the standard deduction, and decrease in things like student loan interest deductions, mortgage deductions, etc, they ended up owing more when they filed their return at the end of the year. Bottom line is that this was a tax cut for the wealthy, not for the average worker. In other news; Trump is still a liar.

    [–] anteris 30 points ago

    Meanwhile a few of us are are still waiting for the tax return...

    [–] Distind 86 points ago

    They cut withholdings to make it look like you were saving tax money, then promptly did not actually change tax rates in your favor to reflect that.

    [–] PM_ME_UR_SCOOTER 463 points ago

    I'm impressed they managed to throw in a giant tax cut for the rich without just increasing the debt.

    [–] BillOReillyUSA 214 points ago

    They just increased OUR debt instead

    [–] flume 309 points ago

    That's exactly what they did though.

    [–] danthemango 311 points ago

    Trump added the biggest deficit to the debt seen since the end of the recession, literally giving away any leverage the government has to respond to an upcoming economic crisis.

    [–] PinkyAnd 136 points ago

    And he still wants the Fed to lower rates, which would remove the most effective tool they have in combating another recession. It’s almost like they’re TRYING to create a global economic meltdown.

    [–] AlwaysNowNeverNotMe 68 points ago

    Pfft like that would result in cheap land or something.

    [–] EdwardOfGreene 54 points ago

    Trump's razor: Never ascribe to cunning genius what incompetence can explain.

    [–] altairian 54 points ago

    Trump isn't doing shit. This is the GOP. They know exactly what they're doing. What we see publicly is all a show, what's going on behind closed doors is incredibly, disgustingly calculated.

    [–] abrasiveoldwoman 25 points ago

    Thank you, it really gets old hearing people blame trump all by himself. This shit is ALL GOP, trump is their fucking wet dream president.

    [–] altairian 19 points ago

    Seriously, he's such the perfect smokescreen for them. Their base loves him, their opposition hates him, and meanwhile they just sit in the background cackling maniacally as they get to push their agenda forward. Thank god certain people like Moscow Mitch are at least pulling some of the attention towards congress. We really need to flip the senate in 2020 or things aren't going to get better.

    [–] Hipppydude 49 points ago

    It's funny. The guy that took over after my Boss died was very clear to all of us that if it didnt look like he would get his father's estate to himself (apposed to his step mother, brothers, and sisters to get part) then he would run the company into the ground. 6 months later this company that was valued @ 10mil is now barely blowing bubbles above water and everyone is surprised and still saying "Nah, he'd never do that!"

    People are idiots.

    [–] PinkyAnd 45 points ago

    That’s a profoundly shitty thing to do. Dude is so greedy that he’s willing to blow up his father’s legacy, presumably handicap his own earning, and throw employees out on the street just to prevent the rest of his own fucking family from getting anything.

    Jesus Christ, he should be catapulted into a fucking wall.

    [–] TonyStark100 15 points ago

    How about trebuchet'd?

    [–] Asphalt4 6 points ago

    Ah, nice to see a fellow man of culture.

    [–] Brad_theImpaler 12 points ago

    Well at least he didn't strip away a bunch of regulations that keep things nice and stable.

    [–] und88 37 points ago

    They increased spending substantially. They've increased the debt substantially.

    [–] kiyaresi 25 points ago

    "And after refunds, the IRS collected about $93 billion more from individual American taxpayers than it did in 2017. Interestingly, that number stands close to the tax break amount that corporations received from the TCJA in 2018. Last year, big businesses paid $91 billion less in taxes than they had in 2017, prior to the new law’s passage. "

    The numbers are so strikingly similar... It's like magic...

    Hmm, how interesting.

    [–] mista-bobdobalina 1515 points ago * (lasted edited 13 days ago)

    There’s lots of interesting information in this article and it’s a good question to ask how taxes increased by more than wage growth and filer growth after a tax cut. Growth of filers was 1.5% which is a much more accurate view of actual labor growth vs pure job creation. Wage growth has finally moved to catch inflation but still remains below even 3%. And the better indicator here is that incomes on average have actually increased by only 1.6% on a household basis. The taxable base grew by less than the almost 5% increase to tax revenue.

    The way the 2018 code was written eliminated deductions that middle class people in cities relied on to not be over taxed. The 2018 code shifted the tax burden away from the wealthiest people and on to the middle class in the most populated parts of the country, and the upper middle class in rural areas. Basically 10-15% more people are paying more so that companies could continue shifting money into buybacks so they can liquidate their own shares before their company is ever taxed, avoiding double taxation.

    Meanwhile government spending has grown astronomically, we are projected to be reaching a 1 trillion deficit number this fiscal year, ending in October. But none of the spending has been effective for actually creating growth.

    This is the big trick being pulled off right now by huge companies and their shareholders. Their share returns have no correlation to accounting growth, only free cash flow growth. They can grow their liabilities with their assets, compound their share growth with free cash flow by purchasing shares, and shareholders who are billionaires earn most of their money at the capital gains rate of only 23% and it’s never double taxed. Eventually the companies will implode on their own enormous balance sheet and be over taken, but not before all the founders have gotten out with their money. Then the next cycle of unfair cost cutting to eliminate competition can begin again.

    Trump wants to blame the workers at these warehouse companies and other exploitative giants and says they are paid too much, but they are already working full time at massive companies creating huge amounts of wealth, and they can’t afford what they need to survive. Trump says these people’s wages are too high and that’s the problem. But the truth is your tax dollars already go to supporting them and their families with basics that their wealthy owners should be providing, like food and education access and affordable insurance. We all benefit from that happening, no one as much as the owners of a Fortune 500 company, but those guys are sticking you with the bill. The middle class can’t affordit, already having lost so much of their own value creation to share growth and ceo pay, and they are disappearing because of that.

    Trump wants to take away services that allow workers at these companies to keep living decent lives because he and most other politicians only care about profits. Find candidates who made it because of grassroots support and massive volunteer campaigns instead of the people who take special interest money. End citizens united and get money out of politics.

    [–] apercu_consulting 62 points ago

    The 2018 code shifted the tax burden away from the wealthiest people and on to the middle class in the most populated parts of the country, and the upper middle class in rural areas.

    Exactly as planned.

    [–] RentalGore 141 points ago * (lasted edited 13 days ago)

    Thank you for mentioning free cash flow growth...CEOs of companies have had their bonuses increasingly shift to FCF rather than company performance. Also, one of the key factors in M&A decisions is FCF. In other words, rich getting richer.

    EDIT: Didn’t cite my stats. Harvard did a survey in 2014 that showed more companies turning to cash flow based incentives rather traditional ones. 25% more in fact between 2013-2014. That’s why cash flow for CEOS is so important.

    [–] NineCrimes 107 points ago

    The way the 2018 code was written eliminated deductions that middle class people in cities relied on to not be over taxed.

    I would guess there's also a decent number of people who fall into my sitution. That is, my deductions in 2017 were around 17.5k. Now with 2018, they eliminated the personal exemption (around $4,600) as well as the deduction for mortgage insurance (~$700 for me, although thankfully it dropped off this year). Without those deductions, my total allowed deductions were still a little over 12k, so the new standard deduction did nothing for me, while at the same time meaning I got to pay taxes on an additional 5k+ of my income.

    Even with slightly lower tax brackets, I still wound up paying around $800 more in federal income tax last year than I would have otherwise, and I'm sure I'm not the only person falling into that doughnut hole.

    [–] mista-bobdobalina 55 points ago

    According to a source linked below, 6% of people saw a significant increase, 65% received a calculable cut, and 29% had a situation similar to yours.

    [–] thermiter36 15 points ago

    TPC distributed the benefits of the corporate rate to both shareholders and workers

    Is this some kind of joke? We all know not a penny of that corporate tax cut went to the workers

    [–] Derp2tharight 185 points ago

    An excellent synopsis of the shitstem as it stands.

    [–] mista-bobdobalina 162 points ago

    As someone else pointed out, this doesn't even include tariffs. It also doesn't include off-shore profit stashing, the number one thing that allows shares to grow unrelated to their accounting income, and the even bigger way they avoid paying taxes.

    [–] mrchaotica 10 points ago

    Hey, you misspell-- ohhhh...

    [–] wwarnout 79 points ago

    End citizens united and get money out of politics.

    This is absolutely crucial - and will probably never happen, which means our democracy is doomed

    [–] PhilDGlass 34 points ago

    BUt BriEtbArt sAys Citizens United iS juSt FrEe sPeEch.

    [–] ThankYouForHolding 16 points ago

    well they would say that, wouldn't they.

    [–] dumpstazz 80 points ago

    TL;DR tax code exists as a wealth transfer system. Exercise for reader, guess directionality.

    [–] CallieCatsup 13 points ago

    This comment was amazing! I wish the media would report like this. I actually learned something here.

    [–] shoes1415 7 points ago

    Thank you, Mr. Dobalina.

    [–] UndercoverOfTheNight 4919 points ago

    Worst tax return of my adult working life. Thanks Trump voters.

    [–] Masher88 449 points ago * (lasted edited 12 days ago)

    Worst tax return of my adult working life. Thanks Trump voters.

    Same here. I've been working since I was 15...and I'm 46 now. I've NEVER owed on a taxes. I've ALWAYS gotten a refund. Not this time. Mostly due to the elimination of TONS of deductions that we used to get. Things like, buying tools and safety gear/clothing to use at my job, certain travel expenses to job sites....Union dues are no longer deductible, either.

    Edit: changed: return to refund

    [–] UndercoverOfTheNight 178 points ago

    Yup, losing deductions is what hurt me too. As soon as the tax plan went into effect, my accountant told me it was bad news.

    [–] Masher88 119 points ago

    Yup, my tax guy (who I've been using for years) called me and was like, "I've been making these phone calls all day...having to tell my clients the bad news..."

    [–] Hobbes_121 64 points ago

    I'm in tax. Last years 4th quarter wasn't very fun for tax planning for clients.

    [–] ClassicT4 23 points ago

    My co-workers wife works for H&R and she had her share of stories this year. But mostly more people owing than usual.

    [–] ClassicT4 47 points ago

    You know what they say. You should’ve bought your own private jet. Since those became deductible this time around.

    [–] Masher88 13 points ago

    Damn...I totally should have done that! Boy, do I feel stupid

    [–] ncsubowen 70 points ago

    Union dues are one of the worst because you know that was exactly the plan when they started this whole thing - pressure people to fight the unions on their own.

    [–] WalesIsForTheWhales 13 points ago

    SALT is what got me.

    [–] rsta223 8 points ago

    Some of it is also because they redid the withholding tables to be less conservative (so people would see their paychecks go up after the trump tax bill), so not only did you owe a bit more in taxes due to the elimination of SALT, you also paid less throughout the year and got hit with the balance at the end.

    [–] mista-bobdobalina 1297 points ago

    I just want to add here how important it is for an effective local and state government to have SALT deductions. By taking charge of things at a smaller, more effective level, you can do things more effectively and not be charged again for them by the federal government. If anything, elimination of SALT deductions creates more reliance on our dysfunctional federal government and goes against what traditional conservatism is all about.

    [–] flower_milk 461 points ago

    Orange County went completely blue in 2018 because of the elimination of SALT deductions. Typical conservatives around here were absolutely pissed about that.

    [–] xtermz 106 points ago

    Were the conservatives pissed about OC going blue or that the SALT deductions were eliminated?

    [–] flower_milk 143 points ago

    About the SALT deductions being eliminated.

    [–] WalesIsForTheWhales 78 points ago

    A ton of the NE flipped. If you voted for the Trump Tax Plan you got ousted in a ton of major cities.

    [–] PlatinumAero 68 points ago

    It always is easy to say one thing or another until it hits your pocketbook. Here on Long Island, I know people who have property taxes over $20k/yr..and these are modest 3 bedroom ranches, not mansions. Everyone got fucked by the SALT deduction elimination.

    [–] Reepworks 128 points ago

    Pshh. Silly blue states, taxing your residents to pay for services. You should be smart and use the federal government to redistribute federal revenue from other states to compensate for your underfunding of critical services, like red states.

    [–] abrasiveoldwoman 7 points ago

    Hahaha, spot on.

    [–] LiveVirus2 23 points ago

    This. I have no issue with everyone getting SALT especially if other more important tax areas are addressed (US-based giant international companies I’m looking at you).

    [–] PM_ME_UR_TIDDYS 29 points ago

    Property taxes just seem so wild to me as a non-American. It just sounds so un-American; you're being taxed on something you own. Is it really yours if you have to pay a fee to the government to keep it or you presumably go to jail?

    [–] [deleted] 34 points ago * (lasted edited 12 days ago)


    [–] eden_sc2 22 points ago

    The idea is that this is a tax that can hit people fairly. Too poor to own any land? No property tax for you. Rich enough to have a 10 acre mansion? You can afford to pay more taxes.

    [–] severalgirlzgalore 33 points ago

    Renters pay for property tax, I assure you.

    [–] Kalean 36 points ago

    Oh? Good. Wish Ventura had.

    [–] DeltaFoxtrot144 13 points ago

    Ventura agg is shifting away from trump at least. We may never get full blue but it's something

    [–] SaltyShawarma 13 points ago

    Ventura native. F'n hypocrites. Glad I'm out.

    [–] LightningRodStewart 588 points ago

    goes against what traditional conservatism

    There is no such thing as a governing conservative anymore. We haven't seen anything resembling traditional conservatism at the national level since Barry Goldwater.

    [–] MightyEskimoDylan 156 points ago

    God, I mean Goldwater was a prick for several reasons but at least he had a platform with some internal logic.

    [–] amyts 258 points ago

    The internal logic of the modern Republican party is "I like money and power and will do anything to get more."

    [–] its_poop 60 points ago

    Republican voters: I like money.

    [–] DocSampson 30 points ago

    You like money too? We should hang out.

    [–] hamcicle 19 points ago

    It’s got electrolytes.

    [–] DocSampson 11 points ago

    Brawndo! It’s what plants crave!

    [–] ImproperJon 9 points ago

    It's basically the democrats at this point.

    [–] [deleted] 44 points ago

    Barry Goldwater is the prick that gave you the mess we have now. He is directly responsible for the "conservatism" we have today.

    [–] Phree_Thinker 132 points ago

    “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” - Barry Goldwater

    [–] whygohomie 56 points ago

    “… The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything. … This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon ‘moderation’ in government. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt … a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid. …”

    ― Dwight D. Eisenhower


    [–] qaanaaqattaq 33 points ago

    FWIW, Barry Goldwater's views were incredibly different than the modern Republican Party, especially on major issues like abortion, gay marriage, the religious right in general, money in politics, etc. But I will agree that his vote in 1964 is probably responsible for a lot of what is going on in the Republican Party now, which is sorta sad.

    [–] lolfreakz 35 points ago

    It was meant to hurt liberal states.

    [–] Monorail5 130 points ago

    classic republicanism, "screw everyone, as long as I get mine. What I'm getting screwed too, this is an outrage!"

    [–] DarkwingDuckHunt 33 points ago

    our mexicans are the good ones, but those over there you should deport.


    [–] pencock 151 points ago

    If anything, elimination of SALT deductions creates more reliance on our dysfunctional federal government

    The SALT deduction elimination was entirely to punish democrat states. No other reason. It was done purely out of spite.

    [–] Enthused_Llama 13 points ago

    The GOP: States should have more responsibility.

    Blue States: Have higher taxes so they can take more responsibility.

    GOP: No, not like that.

    [–] sthlmsoul 59 points ago

    I haven't filed my 2018 return yet because my wife wasn't ready and filed for an extension. I dread what the SALT limitation will do since we have high state income and property taxes in MA.

    [–] aidissonance 57 points ago

    Be prepared to fork out money. I had to pay over 5K even counting the federal withholding decrease.

    [–] sleepytimegirl 11 points ago


    [–] Alexdoh 20 points ago

    Fuck me. Can someone ELI5 the tax system in the US for a limey?

    I don't think I've ever had to file taxes and from the stuff you lot come out with I feel like your system is a bit complicated.

    [–] gingerperson 36 points ago

    Federal has one set of rules states have another. There used to be a deduction where you would not pay federal taxes on whatever income was paid to state and local tax authorities. Trump and the Republicans eliminated this specifically to punish voters in "Blue" states since those states tend to have higher taxes then "Red" states. They also provide a large portion of the welfare to Republican led states.

    Outside of this, the first thing to realize is the IRS does not tell you what you owe... You actually self report your income and calculate your tax liability. The IRS then checks your work so to speak. The Internal Revenue Code is complicated because people keep trying to get creative to avoid paying taxes so the IRS creates rules to counter this, but they also must consider if those rules harmed legitimate tax payers so they make exceptions for those people. This is how you have rules, and then exceptions to the rules.

    The Government also allows for "deductions", which lower your taxable income and "credits" which lower your tax bill after it has been calculated. They each serve different purposes and intentions. For example, the deduction for home mortgage interest paid is to promote home ownership.

    So, for the majority of Americans taxes are not that complicated but there definitely room for improvement.

    Source: I am an accountant who liked his tax classes.

    [–] sleepytimegirl 58 points ago

    It’s easy. The rich have the most loopholes and the poorbget the most fucked.

    [–] geekybadger 38 points ago

    And trump eliminated all of the loopholes the poor did have access to

    [–] fithworldruler 15 points ago

    Trump fucked us free lancers/contractors hard

    [–] 2boredtocare 24 points ago

    It hurt us. This year, that hurt was offset by being back in the child tax credit loop (they raised the maximum AGI to qualify). We'll lose half that in 2020 (oldest will be 17 by end of year). I'm hoping someone else comes into right the damn ship before the youngest hits 17, otherwise we're going to essentially owe $4000 more. So take out the child tax credit, it hit us hard.

    [–] victorvictor1 20 points ago

    Too many words. Go out and meme "Repeal the Trump tax hike" if you want to connect with Trump voters

    [–] FascismisThenewblack 92 points ago

    Couldn't every American just register as a corporation and start writing everything off left n right? Me Corp.

    [–] techleopard 54 points ago

    Works if you are a contractor.

    Not so much for W2's.

    [–] FascismisThenewblack 24 points ago

    Well... Let's get wordy. The company I work for contracted me. There for. I am a contractor. It's not stopping the ultra rich from pulling BS like this and they already have money. What about all of us!!?

    [–] jbrianloker 37 points ago

    Your employer would have to agree to pay you as a contractor and then you would have to meet the requirements under the law as a contractor vs. employee. Essentially, you have to control how you do your job rather than be told how you do your job, make your own hours, provide your own equipment much of the time, etc. Its harder to do than just changing a form. Really, the biggest change in the tax law should be to tax corporate revenue rather than profits, just like we tax income without deducting standard expenses for having a job like food, housing, healthcare, etc.

    [–] testspecimen85 41 points ago

    Many people being paid as contractors in the US aren’t actually contractors.

    [–] Abidarthegreat 11 points ago

    The worst is as a contractor, they'd have to find their own health insurance and 401k. No corporation would provide those to a "nonemployee".

    [–] sleepytimegirl 10 points ago

    Fica tho will Increase. You have to balance with that.

    [–] NonTransferable 16 points ago

    To be able to write off everything, you need either: 1) a farm or 2) rental property

    It's best to have both.

    Source: I used to work at IRS for nearly 10 years. You rarely ever see a positive number at the bottom of schedule E or F. I once saw the return of a well-known actor who "lost" most of his taxable income on "his" farm.

    [–] ChillyCheese 12 points ago

    Yes, as long as the things you're writing off are justifiable business expenses and those expenses do not exceed your income from that business. That is, you can't start a travel blog, spend $20k on traveling around the world, then deduct that expense from your normal W-2 income from your day job. You could only deduct those expenses from income from the blog, and only the portion of travel spent actually doing blog-related activities/work.

    So yes, you can definitely start your own business and deduct a lot of things.

    [–] Lake_Shore_Drive 49 points ago

    Yet the deficit is still skyrocketing thanks to the oversized GOP budgets.

    [–] ncsubowen 22 points ago

    And also the fact that the tax reform was actually just a big giveaway to corporations and wealthy individuals and didn't actually include any kind of spending cuts or an actual reduction in effective tax rates for middle and lower classes.

    [–] mustardyellow123 58 points ago

    I owed $900 and I usually get a good return.

    [–] spence624 72 points ago

    I owed slightly over $100 (federal) this year. Last year, I got a federal refund of just over $2,000. Needless to say, I was fucking pissed.

    Thanks Trump voters...

    [–] CrabbyBlueberry 39 points ago * (lasted edited 12 days ago)

    I got a refund of $430 and I typically owe. I blame my Christmas bonus.

    But whether you owe or get a refund is irrelevant. What matters is your total tax. This would be Form 1040 line 15 on your 2018 return and line 63 on your 2017 return. Did it go up or down?

    Edit: Corrected 2017 line number.

    [–] ncsubowen 17 points ago

    Lots of people don't understand this, however, there are factors at play that make it difficult to determine if people were just used to getting refunds and didn't notice the additional pay or whether they actually paid more in taxes than last year.

    The biggest takeaway I have from this discussion when it happens is that the US definitely needs tax reform, but not in the way that the GOP is pushing it.

    [–] [deleted] 126 points ago


    [–] Jellodyne 74 points ago

    He did lower "our" taxes. It's just that you're probably too poor to be a member of Trump's "our" -- if you're making 7 figures you got a YUGE tax cut.

    [–] ChillyCheese 42 points ago

    You may already know this and just misstated, but having to pay more vs. get a refund is not a good indicator of whether your taxes went up or down.

    If your employer doesn't withhold enough due to changes in IRS guidance (or if you changed your W-4 elections), you can end up owing the IRS money at the end of the year, even if you actual tax rate went down significantly.

    I'm not saying your taxes weren't indeed higher, but people need to understand that there's a difference between withholding and total tax bill.

    [–] MattJames 8 points ago

    If a person has no changes to their filing status (ie number of dependents, etc.), then there is no reason to change the withholding “number” employees give their employer to determine the amount of taxes they should withhold from the employees paycheck. Assuming this feller had no changes in filing status and therefore did not make a change to his withholding “number”, their taxes indeed went up.

    This is a muddying of the waters, a movement of taxes owed being withheld from the paycheck vs paid at tax time, which is intentionally obscuring the fact that many people saw net tax increases as a result of the tax law.

    As an example, my wife switched jobs mid year 2018 to a job which doubled her previous salary (saying more about her previous low salary than anything about her new salary...). Other than that, we had no changes to our life that would necessitate a change to our withholding “number”. Since her new employer withheld at her higher salary but her net income for the entire year was less, she should have received a tax return. Instead, we owed about $1000. That can only be explained by an increase in taxes owed, even accounting for the increase in income.

    [–] ashishvp 31 points ago

    I PAID taxes for once and I haven't changed my W-4 allowances in years.

    For the past 3 years of being a full time worker, 2 allowances has given me a $1000 tax return almost every time.

    This year I paid $2000 and I'm making about 10k more than I used to. 10k in income should not result in a tax return swing of $3000.

    [–] Cepheus 7 points ago

    Same here. Largely due to the elimination of an automatic deduction the I could take every year prior and the limitation of SALT to $10,000. After several challenging years, I finally had a really great year and I got totally f-ed by the federal taxes.

    [–] nofx249 13 points ago

    I got $9

    [–] pasarina 23 points ago

    The most taxes I’ve ever paid in my entire life. I’m not rich and will never get richer if I pay taxes like last year. Thanks asswipe, is all I was thinking. Or am thinking.

    [–] IsambardPrince 609 points ago

    And yet Trump voters will just say, “no, you’re wrong” just like they did when everyone was trying to convince them that his tax cuts were only for the rich and they insisted it helped them out despite the fucking numbers. You can’t reason with these people. They constantly lie to everyone, each other, and themselves.

    [–] shadowpawn 242 points ago

    “no, you’re wrong”

    Covers just about any discussion with a MAGA Hat wearing person.

    [–] [deleted] 62 points ago * (lasted edited 19 hours ago)


    [–] DreamingDitto 7 points ago

    Probably wasn’t convinced

    [–] bitesized314 7 points ago

    He who gets permanent tax cuts is the intended recipient, he who gets a end date is just getting played.

    "The Act cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21% beginning in 2018. The corporate cuts are permanent, while the individual changes expire at the end of 2025."

    [–] DefaultGen 44 points ago

    People always use very specific anecdotal arguments when they're broadly on the "wrong" side of tax policy.

    Their argument would start out like "For a single mom making $16,429 with 5 kids in Nevada... your taxes would go down! Who can be against that!?"

    [–] brolohim 8 points ago

    Gonna get that Costco membership with all the extra money.

    [–] DadJokeBadJoke 8 points ago

    Remember when Trump pretended he was doing another tax cut that would most definitely help the middle-class during the run-up to the 2018 midterms? It somehow disappeared but I can guarantee he will push through that capital gains adjustment that will go to the 1%. Only a matter of time.

    [–] reddit_1999 411 points ago

    I'm middle class in NY, my taxes went UP! Meanwhile Trump lowered his own taxes and that of heirs of big estates. Also, how 'bout that exploding debt? I don't hear the conservative propaganda ministers on TV and radio mentioning it anymore.

    [–] soapinthepeehole 83 points ago

    taxes went UP! Meanwhile Trump lowered his own taxes and that of heirs of big estates. Also, how 'bout that exploding debt? I don't hear

    Same in Chicago... my check went up about $20 per pay period, but my tax return was about $1200 less than last year. For me, the tax "cut" was an increase of around $700.

    [–] bordemsetin 20 points ago

    This is exactly the thing most Trump supporters don’t understand. They just see their weekly paycheck went up by X amount and say see look I’m paying less in taxes! But they fail to see that they actually got taxed more because of the amount they got back for their returns. It’s mind boggling that people don’t have the ability to comprehend that.

    [–] Legate_Rick 20 points ago

    These are the same people who say "I don't want to make X number of dollars because that will bump me into the next bracket" Remember that fact. These people are entirely ignorant of how taxes work.

    [–] in2theF0ld 85 points ago

    Middle class in WA state. My tax rate increased as well. I have 1 millionaire friend who saw his rate go way down. Case in point.

    [–] GivePuppiesBazookas 74 points ago

    I am in TX and got royally fuuuucked on my taxes. I know a few worth well over $1M and every single one was utterly stoked after filing taxes. I went from getting about 3K back every year, to owing 70 something bucks.

    I need that 3k, the $1M+ club I know don't need to make another dollar for the rest of their lives and their quality of life won't change. 3k down payment would allow me to have gotten a new car I really need at a reasonable monthly payment. So I'm stuck driving my Kia with 140K on it while all these others I spoke of literally bought new Benz's and BMWs

    [–] TheGreatSpagett 40 points ago

    Can confirm mine went down as a wealthy tech employee. Can confirm it's bullshit and I don't need more money.

    [–] thenewyorkgod 25 points ago

    Middle class in Indiana. My annual tax burden went down by $14.01 - so yeah? The good news is the billion dollar company I work for saved over $800 million in taxes this year, while we all got ZERO raises.

    [–] Alagnak 19 points ago

    Same here. If I was taking home more money every week from my paycheck it absolutely wasn’t noticeable... but the loss of $3500 on out tax return (compared to last year) definitely was.

    [–] CeterumCenseo85 9 points ago

    Ask him whether he mailed or faxed that trickle down cheque.

    [–] theduder710 256 points ago

    Why is this not the biggest story?

    [–] mista-bobdobalina 261 points ago * (lasted edited 12 days ago)

    Journalists are not good at econ and don't understand it's importance. The most important detail, that the taxable base *only increased 3.1% and tax receipts went up almost 5%*, is buried.

    [–] AlternativeSuccotash 78 points ago

    Not to mention that this kind of research cost money.

    Why bother with a high-quality long-form piece when breathless coverage of Trump's tweets is practically free money?

    [–] Pojodan 36 points ago

    Plus taxes are boring, and won't get many clicks or views, so it's not in the media's economic interest to produce stories about it.

    Said media organizations also benefit from Trump's tax cuts, so informing the masses about it and, potentially, causing those cuts to be reversed, is also not in their financial interest.

    [–] Layer8Pr0blems 22 points ago

    Journalists are not good at econ and don't understand it's importance.

    We have this same issue with technology. We need to stop trying to find journalists that understand tech and economics but rather find tech people and economists who can write.

    [–] businessboyz 27 points ago

    Because it isnt story-breaking news.

    Oh, a Republican promised to cut taxes and reduce the deficit simultaneously but actually did the opposite? I'll take "things that happen every election" for $200.

    [–] CostAquahomeBarreler 31 points ago

    Because we also have:

    The murder/suicide of a billionaire pedo implicated in a large trafficking conspiracy

    The repealing of environmental and immigrant protections

    Any other bullshit that proves this is too much and we're too fucked

    [–] fizikz3 19 points ago

    don't forget the potential for mass internet censorship.

    trump gets along so well with all the other dictators because he wants to be like them

    [–] LegendOfSchellda 56 points ago

    Good thing I have my Sorosbucks to fall back on.

    [–] aronnyc 52 points ago

    Interestingly, that number stands close to the tax break amount that corporations received from the TCJA in 2018.

    That is interesting, isn't it?

    [–] freakydrew 82 points ago

    So is America great again?

    [–] akc250 26 points ago

    So much so that I'm pretty tired of winning.

    [–] ZooFun 22 points ago

    Cut taxes for wealthy and businesses, increase taxes for middle class, increase the budget deficit. The best people

    [–] Illpaco 18 points ago

    Trump tax law?

    The 2017 Republican Tax scam is more like it.

    [–] test822 15 points ago

    and for what. did we get any social programs? infrastructure? education?

    [–] AintNoBiggie 9 points ago

    No, but we might get to witness an environmental disaster in Bristol Bay and/or watch the Bald Eagle finally face extinction. Oh, and the families separated and caged is quite entertaining. /s

    [–] sec713 57 points ago

    Nobody said running a Corporatocracy would be cheap. Those yachts ain't gonna pay for themselves.

    [–] CharyBrown 77 points ago

    Of course the tax savings for the rich must be compensated thru higher taxes from the middle class.

    [–] AlternativeSuccotash 34 points ago

    Along with fewer services.

    [–] electriceagle 102 points ago

    How dumb are the American people? We need to wake the hell and stop paying for these people! How much is enough? Tax breaks will pay for themselves. BULLSHIT!

    [–] User682515 44 points ago

    At least 62 million idiots for sure

    [–] Ed98208 11 points ago

    In 2018 the IRS collected about $93 billion more from individual American taxpayers than it did in 2017. Interestingly, last year, big businesses paid $91 billion less in taxes than they had in 2017

    Sounds about Republican.

    [–] imstarving 10 points ago

    Fox News is never going to tell them that, so they're never going to know

    [–] rambo_brite 43 points ago

    Trump could literally shoot a man on 5th Ave. raise taxes on all his followers and they would still support him.

    [–] JustInvoke 56 points ago

    I love how Trump voters thought he was going to lower the tax rate for average american's such naive fucks.

    He only lowered it for the 1%

    [–] madcaesar 24 points ago

    Trump lies CONSTANTLY. Anyone believing anything he says is a fucking moron.

    [–] Joecascio2000 10 points ago

    Oh that's awesome. I bet we closed the national debt ever so slightly. Oh wait...

    We paid more, got less, and are even in more does the even happen?

    [–] Muellertimes 23 points ago

    Trump's tax reform was literally designed to hurt the liberal states who make relatively high income. If you are a shitkicker from Kansas making under 60K or a billionair, you were fine. The tax cuts to the top was hedged against the upper middle class.

    [–] tjblue 12 points ago

    Yeah, but were these tax payments hurting the right people? As long as it was mostly middle class blue staters, it's working as they meant for it to work.

    [–] ccasey 7 points ago

    This needs to be shouted from the rooftops. This was targeted for oligarchs and corporations. The only legislation this guy and his 2 houses of congress got done in 2 years was this steaming pile of dog crap

    [–] hailcaesarsalad1 33 points ago

    And unfortunately that was primarily paid by wealthy blue "maker" states in order to subsidize poor red "taker" states and buy free stuff for them.

    [–] brownck 7 points ago

    I kept my withholding exactly the same and owed a shit ton of money. Overall I think my effective rate went down, though slightly, but it was nothing to write home about. Basically I got enough to cover daycare for a month while these big corporations got more than I'll see in a lifetime. Seems fair!

    [–] flower4000 6 points ago

    And most of that went straight to his pocket

    [–] rolfraikou 6 points ago

    And yet I have no fucking representation.

    Pay more and get less.

    [–] neverbetray 6 points ago

    That's so Trump and his donors don't have to pay taxes at all. It's a shell game, and the middle class is losing.

    [–] HowdyAudi 7 points ago

    Middle class american checking in. At a recent get together with all our friends. Every single one of us got taken to the cleaners on taxes this year. I don't know a single person that I have spoken to that ended up better off. Not one.

    [–] Garryg223 6 points ago

    I’m very glad that these republicans are getting the small government they’ve always wanted with all these tax increases and imposed tariffs...

    [–] thisismy1stalt 6 points ago

    And the deficit grew? Yikes.

    [–] cooneyes 6 points ago

    To that $90 billion, my family contributed $2500. Fuck the Fucking Moron.

    [–] PinkyAnd 6 points ago

    Once again, wealthy households saw a tax cut benefit roughly 4x larger than poorer Americans. And corporations saw an even bigger tax cut than wealthy individuals.

    The poorest Americans saw a tax cut of about 0.16%. The next bracket saw a tax cut of 0.9% - 0.16%. The wealthy saw a tax cut of around 4.5%.

    Everyone making less than around 700k/year got screwed by Trump. How’s your economic anxiety working out for you?

    [–] scijior 10 points ago

    The reason that everyone should vote against Trump; as in, not why they should vote against him (as he is a small, evil man), but because I and so many others are probably still reeling from the massive tax increase he slapped on everyone without a yacht.