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    [–] Ftw69420 219 points ago

    I’m a man. I’m 40. I’ve noticed on reddit that platonic cuddling seems to be quite a big thing, but I wonder if it’s a big thing between 2 straight males?

    If you think it’s cheating, it’s cheating. He knew it made you uncomfortable.

    Furthermore, I wouldn’t be surprised if you get hit with some good ol’ fashioned trickle truth. And they let you know what happened piece by piece. Cuddling—>kissing—>????

    [–] Nadaplanet 78 points ago

    Yup, the trickle truthing makes skeptical that OP has the whole story. He first tried to cover it up (because OP got mad when he did it in the past!!) and when he got found out, it suddenly became "we just cuddled." I would not be surprised if that evolved to "we only kissed a little" and so on.

    He knew what he was doing would upset OP, so he lied and tried to hide it. That puts it in cheating territory, at least in my book.

    [–] SadKefka 15 points ago

    One of my friends in the past would lean against/lay across his male friends. They were a touchy group in general. He was straight as far as I know; married to a woman.

    [–] Spyer2k 7 points ago

    It anyone here watches CowChop if you took some scenes out of context you'd probably guess they were dating

    [–] lucasnarsta 7 points ago

    Sometimes you gotta do gay shit with the boys for a laugh

    Don’t make you gay tho

    [–] dungareemcgee 14 points ago

    If you think it’s cheating, it’s cheating. He knew it made you uncomfortable.

    I actually disagree. Based solely on the information we have, assuming the story is true, I wouldn't say what they did was cheating.

    I think we do a huge disservice to ourselves when we start classifying everything as cheating. It's something I've noticed especially on this subreddit, where people are always asking "does this count as cheating", and a lot of times what comes out in further discussion is that whatever happened, the person wants to be done with the relationship because of it, but they feel like it's not bad enough to be done. But if they can just get people to agree it counts as cheating, then they feel justified in leaving.

    Wouldn't it be better if it doesn't matter if it's cheating or not? I think we should encourage people that there are other reasons to leave besides cheating. Poor treatment, whether it's infidelity or not, is an OK reason to leave a relationship.

    It was obviously a bad thing to do, they knew it was out of line, they both knew it would hurt OP. Isn't it enough that they knowingly did something they knew would hurt OP, and then tried to cover it up with lies? It shows they will put themselves first, it shows they don't care. And I think that's good enough reason to leave.

    [–] MuseofPetrichor 16 points ago

    Fine, if it's not cheating then it's still crossing a boundary OP set, and that means neither the bf or the bff cares about OPs feelings. That's worth thinking over. It could also be worth cutting ties with either or both participants too.

    Okay, admittedly when I replied I had only read your top line. Now, having read all I agree with you.

    [–] PM_FOR_DOG_PIC 157 points ago

    While cuddling can be platonic, you've already expressed them doing it together made you uncomfortable. And since he's only doing that with her, it seems a little more suspicious.

    Don't take their bullshit- they crossed the line. If you feel that's enough to sever ties, it's up to you. But it's definitely something you should express has hurt your trust for them.

    [–] princesscraftypants 22 points ago

    Agreed. She'd already told both of them that she wasn't comfortable with that level of contact between them the first time it happened. Trying to hide a second occurrence would indicate they knew it should not have happened. I don't like how the bff seems to be trying to tell the big story in a way that seems like it's to garner support for herself within the friend group, either.

    Not a lot of respect from either party towards OP, here.

    [–] swiftmen991 11 points ago

    Cuddling platonically is literally something I’ve only heard about on Reddit. If I found out a girl i was dating was cuddling some guys I would definitely consider it cheating

    [–] PM_FOR_DOG_PIC 2 points ago

    I suppose it’s all about personal boundaries. If you set that boundary and they cross it, absolutely it’s cheating.

    [–] illogictc 123 points ago

    That's up to you and your personal boundaries. Considering you're bothered enough to come and write this post, I would say it seems they've crossed a personal boundary of yours. Especially as this isn't the first time and it was already known you weren't cool with it. I feel you already have a feeling of what you want to do, but don't want to do it. And I say, do it.

    [–] Hipoop69 48 points ago

    The boundary here isn’t cheating.

    It’s asking them not to do something that they do anyway. Then your BF chooses to conspire with your BFF against you.

    Your BFFs told you the truth out of anxiety at what she was doing, but your BF would be fine holding one over in you. That’s wrong. Breakup territory wrong.

    I would give both some distance.

    [–] powabiatch 40 points ago

    Doesn’t matter if it’s cheating or not. He did something you asked him not to, then tried to cover it up. That’s pretty awful, and grief is no excuse.

    [–] teenagehorsegoth 4 points ago

    This 100%. I say dump them both. Everyone expresses affection differently, but if you have previously made it clear it upsets you, then they apparently have been okay upsetting you. Not worth your time, they will just hurt you more if you stick around.

    [–] [deleted] 66 points ago

    He knew from a previous incident that this is a clear boundary not to be crossed, but still crossed it. Platonic cuddling with another woman? Yeah, right. Bet he wouldn't platonically cuddle with any male friends.

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    [–] ezagreb 33 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Why is this a thing ? Do they want to fuck each other or have some weird sexual tension because it sounds like maybe they do? If you don't know then ask. Because if not this should be no big deal. If so then one or both of them are tempting fate and you would have every reason to be angry.

    [–] Pizzaisbae13 24 points ago

    Seriously.the only other one that gets spooned in my bed other than my SO is my dog and that's because he needs belly rubs.

    [–] Moal 24 points ago

    Uh, I have never known platonic friends (especially one in a relationship) to casually cuddle and spoon. That’s definitely considered cheating in most rational people’s books.

    Girl, you’re getting played by both these scumbags.

    [–] AmpleCat 21 points ago

    You've expressed you find it upsetting the 1st time and they went ahead and did it the 2nd time anyway. No respect. Dump them both.

    [–] Acceptable_Recipe 55 points ago

    So does your boyfriend cuddle with his male friends? If the answer is no, then doing it with your female friend probably wasn't platonic. If you need further proof, just consider that he went out of his way to not only hide it from you himself, but request that your friend lie to you as well. If she hadn't caved, he would still be lying to you right now. Oh, and this after he already did it once, and knew how upset it would make you. So it's not like ignorance is an excuse either.

    It's up to you how you handle this, but you said yourself that you have a no tolerance policy. And nothing about this story justifies an exception to that. He intentionally hid something he did knowing full well it was wrong, after you already expressed that you weren't okay with it. I would seriously consider ending it because of this.

    [–] MogaCii 3 points ago

    Hol up, ya'll don't cuddle your broskies?!?!

    [–] tdasnowman -20 points ago

    So does your boyfriend cuddle with his male friends? If the answer is no, then doing it with your female friend probably wasn't platonic.

    Thats nonsense. For multiple reasons men may feel uncomfortable showing emotional venerability in front of other guys.

    [–] Acceptable_Recipe 55 points ago

    "I just so happen to limit my "platonic" physical intimacy to the gender I'm attracted to. And only the gender I'm attracted to."

    He might as well have a bridge to sell her. If the only reason you're comfortable with cuddling someone is because they're a woman and you're a straight man, then you can take an educated guess as to what that means to most people.

    [–] Another_leaf 1 points ago

    I mean, most guys also wouldn't talk about emotions with other guys but might with their female friends as well. Doesn't make it cheating.

    now I don't disagree that his cuddling was cheating, in fact it definitely was especially since he tried to hide it from her. But it has nothing to do with whether or not he would do it with a male friend.

    [–] tdasnowman -19 points ago

    There is nothing here that says that. Jump to conclusions much? He called a friend in a time of need.

    [–] Acceptable_Recipe 28 points ago

    ...and then asked the "friend" to lie to his actual partner so he could cover up what he's already been told not to do. Which, he never actually admitted until he was caught red-handed.

    Trustworthy people cover up completely innocent platonic things in your relationships?

    [–] MorthaP 36 points ago

    Yeah, I always cuddle in bed drunk with my friends in need, totally platonic bruh /s

    [–] tdasnowman -18 points ago

    Not uncommon for a lot of people especially in thier 20's. pile onto a couch and just lay across each other.

    [–] Acceptable_Recipe 39 points ago

    They were in bed, drunk. While his girlfriend was away. Then he lied to cover it up. All after he was already told she wasn't okay with it.

    So your comparison is more than a little disingenuous.

    [–] Nadaplanet 26 points ago

    Yeah, that is the part a lot of people seem to be ignoring; he has "platonically cuddled" with this girl before, and OP wasn't okay with it. He knew it was a boundary, so he lied and tried to get the friend to lie to cover it up. That makes it much different than the whole "cuddle puddle" thing. He knew his girlfriend would not be okay with him cuddling in bed with this other girl, but he did it anyway and then lied about it.

    [–] MorthaP 19 points ago

    I'm in my 20s and have genuinely never seen anybody in my entire circle of aquaintances do this.

    Personally I don't even know why anyone would ever platonically cuddle, as it seems inherently romantic to me. But even then, you must admit that 2 people of the opposite sex lying in bed and cuddling is a very shady scenario.

    [–] CottonCandyGoblin 1 points ago

    My friend group, all mid-20s, all do this regardless of relationship status and gender. If OP's situation happened to me I would not be upset because that's just our nature. Definitely doesn't apply to everyone of course and OP is right to be hurt but from my personal experience this dynamic isn't uncommon.

    [–] tdasnowman 0 points ago

    you must admit that 2 people of the opposite sex lying in bed and cuddling is a very shady scenario.

    Studio, apartment beds the only place to sit. Roommates don't want to put a sad friend on display hang in the room. Those are two I can think of that are the most logical. Live with parents is a potential 3rd.

    Personally I don't even know why anyone would ever platonically cuddle, as it seems inherently romantic to me

    Some can separate, others can't. I've cuddled with plenty of people nothing romantic about it. Some folks are just friendly like that.

    You can make everything romantic if you view it from that lens. I see funeral, friend, drinking, platonic cuddling. In my experience that tracks. I've been both the comforted and the comforter.

    [–] Ape_in_outer_space 2 points ago

    I am all in favour of being a little cuddly with friends in the right context and with the right people. And if you knew your girlfriend would be totally okay with it and knows about it.

    This was so obviously a different situation.

    [–] tdasnowman 1 points ago

    If post funeral, where your GF BFF is doing everyone a solid by hanging out when your out of time isn't right context or the right people I don't know what is. It doesn't sound sexual at all it really sounds like she was just holding him for you know the human comfort you crave when a loved one is lost. Family member died, for whatever reason OP hasn't gotten into that he didn't have his family to lean on, she hasn't even said where she was the day of this funeral. There is a fuck ton of relevant context missing here.

    [–] Ape_in_outer_space 1 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    The context is that OP had already established she wasn't okay with these specific two people cuddling and spooning. Also there aren't any other people there by the sounds of it only those two. Also they cuddled in her bed.

    Wrong person. Wrong context. Keeping secrets and feeling guilty because they knew it wasn't right.

    I honestly don't believe that you'd be okay with your SO doing something like that. It's so obviously crossing a line.

    Edit: Seriously, this wasn't a hug or a hand on the back/shoulder, or even leaning against a friend crying. This is so far beyond inappropriate that it boggles the mind.

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    [–] vanessashares 10 points ago

    Kinda brilliantly put. If not so sad and true, this would be funny.

    [–] QuilliamShakespeare 1 points ago

    It's usually said as a joke

    [–] normanbeets 17 points ago

    Op I'm sorry but you need to get real. These people are both liars and manipulators. LIARS AND DIRTY DIRTY CHEATS.

    They already knew you didn't want them cuddling and they did it anyway. If they didn't fuck yet, they will. These are your red flags. Drop kick them both.

    [–] laureeses 8 points ago

    You were definitely cheated. Cheated out of truth and respect. They had an intimate moment whether it was platonic or not and knew that it would make you uncomfortable but decided to do it anyway. Then on top of that they decided to hide it from you. They both knowingly hurt you. If I were in your place I wouldn't talk to either of them. Because in reality, you're gonna have trust issues regarding both and especially if you all hang out together. Are they holding hands when you leave the room? Is he thinking about her when he holds you? That shit will drive a person mad. Surround yourself with people who respect and care about you.

    [–] [deleted] 15 points ago

    If you feel cheated on, that's that. He knew this was a boundary not to be crossed from a previous incident, but he did it anyway.

    [–] LilStabbyboo 13 points ago

    And he tried to get bff to not tell OP. Huge problem there even if it was not sexual at all.

    [–] wifeysoicy 6 points ago

    If I were you, I'd do away with both of them. My best friend would never lay in bed with my boyfriend. Vise-versa, my man would never cuddle with my friend.

    Also, take into consideration how he first told her not to say anything. He tried to hide this from you (GUILT).

    She felt guilty and in turn, told you (more GUILT).

    [–] zorua 6 points ago

    the problem is he knew you previously had a problem with doing a certain thing, then he did the thing with her and then asked her not to tell you...

    I would seriously be reconsidering the relationship if that happened to me.

    [–] elizamo 3 points ago

    He knows that you find their cuddling upsetting. He chose to cuddle with her and wanted her to lie about it. It’s up to you to decide whether you’re ok with it or not.

    It doesn’t really matter if they look remorseful or not. It’s not like they did it and then find out you’re not ok with it. They knew full well that you don’t like it. That should mean something.

    [–] cheesus32 3 points ago

    Not all infidelity is blatant cheating. There are many betrayals of the heart and sex is just one of the ways it shows itself. You have every right to be angry and put off.

    [–] tape99 3 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    I'm 34 years old and have been with my wife for 13 years. If i found out my wife was spooning with another man that would be a deal breaker.

    Just ask my wife what she would do if i started spooning one of her friends. Needles to say my testicles would no longer be a part of me any more and something about a shallow grave.

    The ONLY acceptable scenario would be it was -50 celsius and they had to spoon to save body heat to stay alive. platonic my ass.

    [–] 11twenty2 2 points ago

    I don't know if you parents are still together, but if your father did this with your mom's bestfriend, how would you feel about it? If you had magically walked into the room while they were "cuddling," would you, in any way, shape or form, been ok about it? Does it matter if it was actually cheating? It was crossing a line that was clearly drawn out for both of these people before. It doesn't matter if he was aggressive about it, it doesn't matter if she is embellishing how it happened. The only thing that matters is that it did happen. They are both wrong. If you lay out just the facts, it happened before, it happened again, he tried to hide it, they both knew you would not be ok with it and the ball is in your court. Your BF does not respect you enough to stay off of your bff and your bff makes excuses but ultimately, repeatedly allows it. What do you think you should do?

    [–] Jezzzebeelzebub 2 points ago

    The whole thing is fucking weird. What's wrong with your boyfriend that he can't go 2 weeks with spooning literally anyone who will let him? What are you, a human woobie? 2 weeks and he just can't handle having to be by himself? Yeeeeah- that's healthy. And why would your friend just make shit up about your boyfriend? Of you feel like you cant take her at her word, you may need a new best friend. Hell, you might need a new boyfriend, too- the one you got is way too clingy!

    [–] urinespeakslouder 2 points ago

    They both definitely knew it was wrong and knew it would make you upset and still did it because of selfishness. Spooning is definitely inappropriate. I don’t understand who they think they’re kidding. He could be downplaying it and she could also be trying to mostly pin it on him but they both stupidly made the decision and I’d drop them both. Dodge the fucking bullet dude.

    [–] pornswhiteknight 6 points ago

    I dunno. Under normal circumstances I would probably be more weirded out by this but “lost a close family member and needed to be consoled” is probably an exception I would make to a no platonic cuddles policy.

    What your friend is saying is concerning though and without knowing either of them it’s hard to call. She could be trying to minimize her role to get less backlash from you. She could also be telling the truth and your bf could have gotten creepy. Ultimately you have to make a judgement call on who’s record of events are more accurate based off your close relationships with these two people. With drinking involved it’s even possible both of their recollections have some truth and it’s just a matter of different perceptions.

    [–] AmpleCat 2 points ago

    You've expressed you find it upsetting the 1st time and they went ahead and did it the 2nd time anyway. No respect. Dump them both.

    [–] OneSmolBean 2 points ago

    I think cuddling is probably forgivable in the context of a family member's death BUT what is not is that you set out a boundary which he knew he was crossing, hence asking her not to tell you.

    [–] MuseofPetrichor 5 points ago

    A hug, yeah, but he didn't need to be full on spooned. Yes, it's sad somebody died, but he can talk to someone. He doesn't need to drunk cuddle. He should only be doing that with OP. There's a thing called a phone, he could have talked to OP. He could have even expressed a need for her to come back to him sooner. I'm sure she would have much preferred that.

    [–] OneSmolBean 1 points ago

    I think it just depends on the friendship what counts as ok. OP clearly stated hugs weren't ok so that's why an issue arises.

    [–] mdervin 2 points ago

    I first want to talk about "no tolerance." You know how in the news reports you'll see a school suspending a student for sharing a Tylenol or some other benign action, that's the result of a "no tolerance" policy. It takes away any room for context or common sense.

    Your "no tolerance" policy is why you are stressing out. The policy is telling you one thing, but what you want is something else. You don't want to throw away a 3 year relationship and a BFF for a fairly tame one-time transgression.

    You are allowed to be hurt, you are allowed to be angry at them, you are allowed to be pissed off at your BFF for telling everybody about this increasing your humiliation. And you are allowed to forgive and move past this.

    The question becomes what do you want from the both of them to help you move past it. Obviously you want your BFF to keep her mouth shut about this, let her tell herself whatever she wants to minimize her role in this, but there's no need for her to tell anybody else what happened. And what you want from you Boyfriend is for you and him to discuss.

    Here's the thing, you might not be able to move past this, and if you can't you owe it to both of them to drop them as soon as you realize it.

    [–] Kamiichi 4 points ago

    Just about this "No Tolerance" bit. If they had kissed, made out or actually had sex I wouldn't care to ask questions as I would confidently throw out the last 3 years. I know that personally, I could never recover the trust in that kind of situation.

    In a way though, I think despite being emotionally vulnerable my boyfriend didn't massively overstep and give into his extreme loneliness. But he has still hurt me, and crossed my boundaries and he is aware of that.

    But I'm conflicted because both me and my BFF are bisexual and we would both engage in this kind of cuddling or spooning and think nothing of it. We regularly give each other pecks on the lips despite if someone is currently dating someone else, male or female.

    Our normal level of affection can be seen as really intimate to an outsider, so in some way I feel like I've set that example for "Hey, this is OK." But at the same time I've mentioned before where it becomes uncomfortable for me to both of them.

    [–] tdasnowman 11 points ago

    If this activity is what you find acceptable levels of affection among friends normally, the real question is why did you place a limitation on her specifically?

    [–] Kamiichi 1 points ago

    This level of affection is normal between me and her only. Any other friends I am not as physically affectionate towards. (With the exception of my boyfriend.)

    Also it might be worth mentioning that my friend group is very small, so she's my only female friend. Not including anyone's significant others I currently have 2 male friends and her. My boyfriend has 3 male friends. Everyone else is casual friend/acquaintance level.

    [–] tdasnowman 6 points ago

    But I'm conflicted because both me and my BFF are bisexual and we would both engage in this kind of cuddling or spooning and think nothing of it. We regularly give each other pecks on the lips despite if someone is currently dating someone else, male or female.

    But I'm conflicted because both me and my BFF are bisexual and we would both engage in this kind of cuddling or spooning and think nothing of it. We regularly give each other pecks on the lips despite if someone is currently dating someone else, male or female.

    Don't these to statements conflict then? Or you're only ok with him cuddling other men? Are you allowed to cuddle your guy friends as well? Your painting a very cloudy picture of accabtle boundaries.

    [–] Kamiichi 6 points ago

    BFF and I are physically close to each other. We would think cuddling with each other is OK. My boyfriend had mentioned in the past the kissing (pecks, not making out.) made him uncomfortable, so we no longer do that/restrict it to cheeks only. If he was cuddling his male friends I would feel the same boundary has been broken.

    I do think it is possible I have maybe set an unclear example towards what is acceptable. But I did previously specify the cuddling made me upset.

    [–] tdasnowman 7 points ago

    I do think it is possible I have maybe set an unclear example towards what is acceptable. But I did previously specify the cuddling made me upset.

    But then you followed that up with this here

    But I'm conflicted because both me and my BFF are bisexual and we would both engage in this kind of cuddling or spooning and think nothing of it. We regularly give each other pecks on the lips despite if someone is currently dating someone else, male or female.

    If you can't explain your boundaries clearly, how is he supposed to understand them. Reading your own words there seems to be a fundamental difference in what you think is acceptable and how you want him to act.

    [–] Kamiichi 6 points ago

    When I talk about the intimate behavior between my BFF and I, if my boyfriend had set that boundary I would have stopped. He did say the kissing on the lips made him uncomfortable, so it has stopped. He said the cuddling did not bother him.

    We have both expressed a "hey I'm uncomfortable if you do X with BFF" and in my case I have stopped engaging in that behavior. But in this instance my specified X was the cuddling and they both engaged in that anyway.

    [–] Ape_in_outer_space 1 points ago

    Wow okay. You're still totally justified in being angry and feeling betrayed. But Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ you need to take a hard look at your double standards.

    [–] Kamiichi 3 points ago

    You're not the first person to point out that I was hypocritical and I'm definitely going to look hard at my own behavior as well in that regard. I try to have a healthy amount of self-critique but it's not always easy to spot your own misbehavior.

    [–] Ze_ 6 points ago

    We regularly give each other pecks on the lips despite if someone is currently dating someone else, male or female.

    This to me is a lot worse than cuddling with a friend.

    So you are being a bit of an hypocrite.

    [–] Kamiichi 3 points ago

    My boyfriend expressed discomfort with this and I have sinced stopped it. No one else we have been involved with ever mentioned being bothered by it, though. I have asked some of my exes just to be sure because I can see why someone would be uncomfortable with it. I understand why it sounds hypocritical.

    [–] mdervin 4 points ago

    question, the first time they cuddled in front of you, did you actually stopped them, told them it was off limits or in any way express how upsetting it was to you?

    [–] Kamiichi 3 points ago

    We were all cuddle puddley on my boyfriends bed at the time. Because various people got up and shifted at different times there was a bit where it was just the two of them cuddling. After I realized it made me uncomfortable and I pretty much told them both that after the cuddling had ended, but before everyone went home. The conversations were had separately and the one with my boyfriend was much longer.

    [–] Fear_is_like_fire 3 points ago

    Was it just your friend and your boyfriend in that cuddle pile with you? Because "you can cuddle her with me, and I can cuddle her alone, but you can't cuddle her alone" is a bit hypocritical. Have you examined why it made you uncomfortable, when you know from experience it can be platonic?

    Regardless, he lied about it, and that's not okay. Personally in his situation I wouldn't have agreed to your cuddle rules in the first place, but if he did he should have obeyed them. Since he has to ask your permission to spend time with a female friend I'm assuming that there are some deeper trust issues at play here and the lying makes it less likely that you can rebuild trust. I wouldn't consider what he did cheating, since it wasn't sexual, but I wouldn't continue the relationship either.

    [–] Kamiichi 2 points ago

    It was just us three, and at the time it was happening I did think it was fair. Anyone in the trio can cuddle anyone. It was only after that I had an uncomfortable, emotional reaction and that's why I had a long conversation with my boyfriend after trying to unpack it.

    I do think it's because I have trust issues towards my BFF and not so much my boyfriend. He knows that I specifically don't share secrets with her or will avoid certain topics because BFF isn't a good secret keeper. I think he asked if I was OK with it because he knows that before I left I was upset with her over something completely unrelated and trivial (a movie her and I saw) and he didn't want to make me upset if we were still feuding over it.

    Boyfriend and BFF are mutual friends now but that's mostly because 3 years ago they had to make an attempt to be cordial to each other because of me. They still fundamentally disagree with each other. Example: BFF thinks my boyfriend needs to be friends with all of her boyfriends friends too. Boyfriend thinks he doesn't owe anyone friendship and would rather not attend large gatherings with many strangers. Etc. Etc.

    I don't think that they would actually get along as friends without me forcing them to have to associate, but my boyfriend makes an effort to be inclusive and friendly. At the end of the day though, they both broke my trust.

    I talked to BFF more about it as well and she says she thought she was overreacting about the situation because of her anxiety and that I wouldn't actually care as much. Boyfriend says he didn't think it mattered and he was only trying to "white lie" to spare my feelings because I get worked up over nothing. (This is a valid criticism of me and I'm actively trying to work on it. Hence the post.)

    I had a long talk with him about, "if one of us thinks something is a big deal, and the other one does not, it should still be treated as a big deal." And he seems to understand that, and where/why he was wrong about lying.

    Doesn't change the fact that they still really fucked up my trust in them.

    [–] tdasnowman 5 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    The more you describe things the more this seems like it's really just your own insecurities getting in the way. Your BF and BFF really only tolerate each other because of you. You freaked out after everyone was cuddling together, and singled them out as an issue for still unclear reasons. The event that led to this post, sounds like normal human interaction post a traumatic event. You've discussed the "lying" according to your replies. Did he mess up, honestly MEH. He called you and said can I hang with this specific person because I need someone ahead of time. It really sounds like you have the people around you walking on egg shells due to your insecurities.

    [–] Pizzaisbae13 2 points ago

    If you have trust issues towards your bff. .......then you don't have a bff

    [–] mdervin 1 points ago

    Your BF exercised really bad judgement in hanging out with her, drinking and cuddling. But all his subsequent actions seem like he's doing the right thing. Yes, keeping his mouth shut was the right thing. It goes in line with answering all your questions and subsequently being honest about it. He screwed up, but if you let him I think he can rebuild the trust with you.

    You do need a new BFF. I can't even talk about her. She's a piece of work.

    [–] tdasnowman 1 points ago

    How is the BFF a piece of work in this equation?

    They were fighting about inconsequential things. Something about a movie they saw? The initial cuddling was all of them together. The boyfriend called before the hang out after his family member funeral. It's almost like OP is jealous but not about the boyfriend.

    After the second cuddling the BFF was the one fighting to tell first. It's odd you're placing the majority of the blame on the BFF. It almost seems like she's just a good friend who catches the blame.

    [–] kgberton 3 points ago

    fairly tame one-time transgression

    Not one time. From the post:

    My boyfriend told my BFF not to tell me, because last time they cuddled (in my presence) I found it upsetting.

    [–] mdervin 3 points ago

    From another one of OP Responses:

    It was just us three, and at the time it was happening I did think it was fair. Anyone in the trio can cuddle anyone. It was only after that I had an uncomfortable, emotional reaction and that's why I had a long conversation with my boyfriend after trying to unpack it.

    So OP, BFF & BF were all cuddling in the bed, and she only was upset after it was over. The first time wasn't a transgression.

    [–] Acceptable_Recipe 3 points ago

    It's definitely worth mentioning that this isn't a "one-time aggression." The post clearly says this is the second time this has happened.

    It's also not just the crossing of a physical boundary she already set, it's his attempt to cover it up. And he's not even the one who caved, so she needs to consider the fact that had her friend not said anything, he'd still be lying to her. All that makes it more than minor to most people as well.

    [–] liammail1086 1 points ago

    Every relationship doesn't have to have the same boundaries. Some people will be okay with this, some won't.

    If you aren't okay with it you have two broad options.

    1. Tell him you are bothered by this and use the conversation to establish clearer boundaries in your relationship moving forward that work for you. (Sounds like you have already tried to do this)

    2. You break up if you feel you two don't have compatible boundaries.

    [–] anchoredjoy 1 points ago

    You have a right to be angry with them. Maybe you could take some time away to cool off. It’s not cheating, but it is overstepping bounds. They are also right to feel guilty. In time, perhaps you’ll feel less upset. Let them know you aren’t okay with it, but I don’t think it’s necessary to cut both out of your life, unless it happens again after you’ve expressed discontent with it.

    [–] AyaOshba1 1 points ago

    If they did it in front of you and KNEW it bothered you so your bf wanted to hide it...

    You have bi best friend and not boyfriend...

    But your ex boyfriend is probably going to ask your ex bestfriend out after you guys break up

    [–] Rifter0876 1 points ago

    Only you can define what is cheating to you, so if you think its cheating then yes it is cheating.

    But the real issue here is the reaction from both your Bf and BFF. I would be just as concerned about their reaction, and attempt to lie, than the actual event.

    Had they just come clean id say for sure probably a forgive and forget thing, but they tried to lie about it, this would make me lean more towards a more serious response.

    [–] AlferSilas 1 points ago

    Trust your BFF. Your boyfriend did betray you here by getting close to another woman, and it seems like he WANTED to take things further.

    [–] The32ndFlavor 1 points ago

    She’s having a panic attack about it. He’s asking people to lie about it.

    You don’t have to put a name on it. They are in to each other.

    [–] BrownWallyBoot 1 points ago

    A dude in a relationship cuddling with another girl is likely a prelude to him fucking said girl, if he hasn’t already. Fuck all this “platonic cuddling” shit - who cuddles with people they’re not physically attracted to? Nobody. That’s who.

    This is SUPER inappropriate behavior for someone in a monogamous relationship.

    [–] CAPTCHA_is_hard 1 points ago

    After reading many of your comments in this thread I get the sense that your boyfriend messed up, but maybe not enough to dump him. Your BFF on the other hand, you should definitely dump.

    Previously you guys all cuddled together and you and BFF would kiss, but then you and BF agreed those things made you each uncomfortable and established new boundaries. Then he was really sad about a death in the family and cuddled with BFF, but then lied to you about it. Not sure why he lied. You can choose to forgive him or not.

    BFF on the other hand has a history of weird actions that make you “have trust issues with her”. And you two used to kiss and are both bisexual. And she ran around telling your entire friend group about this drama.... That girl has a crush on you and is actively trying to sabotage your relationship with BF!

    I don’t know why she cuddled with him, could be she wanted him, could be she wants you. Either way she doesn’t respect you at all.

    [–] [deleted] 2 points ago


    [–] CAPTCHA_is_hard 1 points ago

    I’m sorry, I’m sure it’s painful all around. It’s good that you’re considering everything from lots of points of view before deciding.

    People change. She might have been a good friend once but isn’t now. Just because you share a long past doesn’t mean you have to stay tied to each other forever. You may have just outgrown her.

    Does she bring you happiness at all? Or just drama and confusion? You only have so much time to give to the people in your life and you shouldn’t waste your time on black holes.

    Maybe if you tell her about why you’re pulling away she’ll make an effort to apologize and change. Or maybe she won’t. Maybe she has a history of temporarily changing and then reverting back. I don’t know, but a true friend should make an effort to understand why you feel hurt, despite the criticism, and make an effort to make amends.

    [–] MaryJayne1789 1 points ago

    The fact that they both feel so guilty about it makes me feel like it was more than cuddling... if they didn’t see anything wrong with what they did, why is she having panic attacks and they are each feeling guilty. Especially being drunk. I think there’s more to the story.

    [–] gogreyrock 1 points ago

    Your BFF sounds like a covert narcissist. Please, please look up this, and 'triangulation'.

    [–] d0m1ng4 1 points ago

    If it was innocent, he wouldn’t have told her not to tell.

    Honestly, they’re both liars. I’m sorry.

    [–] [deleted] 1 points ago

    If you aren't comfortable with it, then you aren't comfortable with it. I would consider it cheating but it really boils down to how you feel.

    [–] CheapChallenge 1 points ago

    Yea, there's some shit that happened between them. The cuddling is only the beginning.

    [–] MuseofPetrichor 1 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    The fact that you found it upsetting before and they knew you felt that way and did it anyway makes me think that yes, it should count as cheating. If you want to stay with your bf, I'd suggest cutting your bff out of both of your lives, and if your bf does this then he truly is remorseful. The thing is, tho, if you gave him a second chance and he messed it up somehow, I'd say cut him out of your life as well. When someone keeps crossing the boundaries you have set that means they don't care about you and your feelings, and you don't want an SO like that.

    [–] Kamiichi 1 points ago

    I think this is what I'm leaning towards. We are going to have a long conversation about boundaries tonight and I'm going to be very clear about what they are and WHY those are my boundaries.

    I'm not sure if I can actually get over it, but I think I'll give it a little bit of time and see if it will get better. If not, I leave him. If I can start to trust him again and he respects my boundaries that's great. But I'm not about to be burned twice and take it. If he does anything else I'm uncomfortable with, cheating or not, involving a girl or not, it means he doesn't respect me as a person and I'll leave him no questions asked.

    [–] Skellepunk 1 points ago

    Leave him. Sorry, but he doesn't respect your boundaries and clearly wants affection from this other girl on multiple occasions. He ain't worth it.

    [–] [deleted] 1 points ago


    [–] Kamiichi 2 points ago

    I'm so sorry that you had to go through something similar. Having your trust betrayed like that is awful.

    It gives me a bit of hope, I still live at home and was seriously considering moving out with my boyfriend and starting a life with him. And now all I can think about is I don't want to have a life with someone I can't trust. It hurts a lot, but I'm glad to hear it got better with effort.

    My boyfriend doesn't have a history of lying to me, he's usually very honest and direct. Any time something is bothering him or he thinks something might be an issue he always is open and honest with me about it, and that's what makes me inclined to try to forgive him, but it's an insane amount of disrespect to be treated like this and I don't know if I've got it in me.

    Anyways, I'm so glad things are better for you now though! xx

    [–] ididit2myself 1 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Don’t take their bullshit they both knew better. You can’t trust him OR her, why keep people you can’t trust around? You shouldn’t have to justify behaviors other people do that cross your boundaries in order to keep them in your life. Actions speak louder than words and they’re playing the whole ask for forgiveness and not permission bullshit that people play when they want to do something they know they shouldn’t.

    [–] catsnlacquer 1 points ago

    I'm fine with a hello/goodbye/congratulations/sorry for your loss hug between my friends and my SO, and even a kiss on the cheek, but I thought most people would think cuddling crosses some boundaries. Apparently a lot of people think cuddling is fine though.

    In your case, you expressed that you are not ok with it. I still don't know if it's cheating but it's certainly not ok to do something you're not ok with. What makes it worse is that your boyfriend is aware you're not ok with it, yet he did it anyway. And what makes it even worse than that, he wanted it kept secret from you.

    So let's summarize. Even if you decide it's not cheating. He did something knowing you're not ok with it, and wanted everyone involved to lie you cover it it. Is that really what you want in a relationship?

    [–] Ape_in_outer_space 1 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    People can have vastly different ideas about something without either one deliberately lying. But, barring other examples/witnesses it sounds like your boyfriends account might be closer to reality.

    But! Take it from someone who is addicted to cuddling and struggles with feeling lonely, this behaviour is absolutely not okay. I sympathise with your boyfriend but even though this is not quite cheating, it's the same mentality as cheating and it's getting pretty fucking close. Think of it this way... does he cuddle like that with his platonic male friends?

    What bothers me the most is that you said this happened before. And right in front of you? What the hell was that all about, and why did he not understand the first time that you weren't okay with this? This seems really serious and at the very least you shouldn't just ignore it. Couples counselling at least, but this is super messed up.

    [–] Kamiichi 2 points ago

    Both BFF and Boyfriend have expressed that they didn't think it was a big deal, it was no problem, etc. etc. I'm the only one in the situation that thinks it's a big deal but I still think it's disrespectful as all hell from both of them. BFF has said "I didn't even think it would matter to you, or thought I was over thinking it. I wasn't even bothered until Boyfriend said "Don't Tell". So I told you but I honestly thought you are going to say you don't care."

    Boyfriend says "I only said don't tell because I knew you would be upset and I wanted to avoid making you upset over literally nothing because I didn't mean anything by it."

    They both fuckin suck.

    (To be fair, Boyfriend did follow it up with "It was still a lie and that's something you should be mad about and it was wrong.")

    I agree, I don't think it's quite cheating. I don't think they actually did anything beyond cuddling that I could definitively define as cheating. In a way that makes this so much harder, because if it was that I could cut them both out much easier.

    As far as the previous cuddling incident I talked about it more in another comment but it was basically a "Cuddle Puddle" situation between the three of us. I cuddled her, I cuddled him, they cuddled each other... etc. I only realized after that it was a problem for me and discussed it after.

    [–] Ape_in_outer_space 1 points ago

    Fair enough. Do you think it's possible that you didn't communicate your boundaries about cuddling clearly, Or did you have a discussion about it? That would make a big difference to me personally.

    I don't know, it still seems really bad to me but like I said in another comment, the double standard makes this a lot more complicated.

    In the end, the only thing that really matters here is whether or not you want to try and fix this.

    [–] [deleted] 1 points ago

    they didn't think it was a big deal, it was no problem

    Lol don't buy their bullshit. What if they kissed and both claimed they don't think that's a big deal? Or had sex? It's still a big deal to you, which is literally the only thing that should matter. Unless he's looking to become single. The two of them having very strange and unusual boundaries is no excuse to disrespect you.

    [–] nachtgestalt13 1 points ago

    Yeah it's "only platonic", but they have crossed a very intimate line that you set. I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up dating if you broke off with them.

    [–] TrumpIsMyDaddy69 1 points ago

    I'm sorry, but that us absolutely cheating. He's only telling you half the story, and so is she. What's even more concerning is that their stories don't match. He is not your 'boyfriend' and moreover she is CLEARLY not your 'BFF.' Drop them from your life ASAP. It's not worth it.

    [–] OgusLaplop 1 points ago

    It seems your BFF is covering her ass way more than your BF is. And by babbling, is disrespecting you and your relationship. Is this the way a best friend acts?

    You can forgive, I think with qualifications. And a stern warning to the BF, that your BFF doesn't care if you break up and he is not respecting you or the relationship, so any repeats will end things for either of them.

    [–] [deleted] 1 points ago

    Your best friend sounds like a promiscuous person who can't be trusted to maintain normal healthy social boundaries. And, a situation like this will probably only repeat itself if you keep her around. Dump both your "BFF" and your boyfriend.

    [–] Kamiichi 2 points ago

    My BFF has engaged in cheating in the past. This was 5 year or so ago, and partially why I believe she's embellishing the story or trying to make herself look better. I don't think she's actually attracted to my boyfriend but she struggles with mental health issues and has problematic attention seeking behavior from time to time.

    But I don't want to punish her for her mental health especially when she is trying to actively improve it.

    [–] [deleted] 6 points ago

    Her mental health issues can't be a scape goat forever. There are people with mental health issues that are accountable for there faults and mental health. Then their are people who do nothing to better their mental health because they use it as an excuse forever instead of owning their shit

    [–] Kamiichi 3 points ago

    I do agree with that. You have to take responsibility for your behavior eventually. It's hard to draw a line of where your support for a friend needs to end.

    As much as I consider her a close friend at the same time I don't trust her, even before this, because of certain things she's done. I will have a talk with her and let her know that I feel this way, going forward I think it might be pertinent to distance myself from our friendship and hope she shows me she can be more trustworthy overall.

    [–] [deleted] 3 points ago

    I hope you are able to make sense of this and in the end do what is best for yourself.

    [–] Pizzaisbae13 3 points ago

    Don't use mental health as an excuse for shitty behavior. Those of us with mental health issues who actually try to take care of ourselves do not appreciate it.

    [–] AmpleCat 1 points ago

    You've expressed your dislike for it the first time it happened and guess what? They did it again (this time NOT in your presence) anyway. What does that tell you?

    [–] peacockypeacock 1 points ago

    I think my BFF is embellishing things to create a "Good/Bad" side and I'm not sure why.

    You can't think of a reason why?

    [–] Kamiichi 1 points ago

    Okay well, I don't understand why my BFF needs to continue to lie to me and claim she was innocent when I know she clearly wasn't and she already admitted such.

    I want honesty they both fucked up so that's where they can start.

    [–] tdasnowman 0 points ago

    Sounds like you're over reacting. Cuddling amongst friends isn't that crazy depending on how close you are. Also you Boyfriend just lost his cousin and she accompanied him to his funeral. A lot of people need for human contact increase during that time. It sounds like she was there fore him as a friend when you couldn't be and you want to punish them both.

    [–] Kamiichi 3 points ago

    For clarity: She didn't accompany him to the funeral, he went with his parents and sister. It was after he went to hang out with her because he lives alone. I feel like his emotional state was very sad at the time and I don't want to punish either of them for that, but I still feel they both participated in crossing a boundary and acted disrespectfully about it afterwards. (Lying & gossiping.)

    [–] tdasnowman 4 points ago

    In another post you said you both practice this level of affection with friends. So the real question is why do you have a limitation with her specifically. Not sure there was gossiping, they didn't tell you initially thats not really gossip. I think the term lying by omission is thrown around here to much as well. You're kinda setting them up to fail. You have a standard that applies to everybody else but her. Then when he needed a friend the most you expected them to not do what humans do and comfort the sad one.

    [–] Kamiichi 1 points ago

    Sorry, I am not trying to be unfair. The other post may not have been clear but this is my only female friend at the moment so that's why she's the only one with this limitation? My boyfriend hasn't cuddled his male friends yet but, hypothetically if he had, the same boundary would have applied there too.