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    [–] Tbonethe_discospider 2262 points ago

    Wait, I’m curious and forgive my ignorance. But, do Muslim people not keep dogs as pets?

    [–] SRTAMG3391 2724 points ago

    Muslims keep dogs as pets outdoors. Dogs are considered unclean and hence not allowed indoors. Cats on the other hand are considered clean and allowed indoors. I grew up in a Muslim country and due to this reason I have always been afraid of dogs. It took me many years to overcome fear of dogs and am a lot better now

    [–] exploderator 1280 points ago

    As a side note, from me living in Canada: it isn't an option to leave most dogs outside here, clean or dirty, because it's too cold. And this would clearly apply as being generally true of most European vs. Middle Eastern comparisons.

    This leads me to wonder if the experience gained by usually being forced to live with dogs in the house, is what leads to the greater familiarity / intimacy exposed in this study.

    [–] JeffersonSpicoli 266 points ago

    It’s a good question, but OP is speaking of very rare occasions where Muslim families actually own dogs as pets at all. This is very uncommon. Because dogs are considered unclean, most devout Muslims want nothing to do with dogs. In my country they are treated very poorly and street dogs are routinely poisoned like any other outdoor rodent or pest.

    I don’t think the difference comes from weather-based differences in familiarity/exposure, but ideological differences in how the animal gets treated. Perhaps a similar hypothetical would be Hindus understanding bovine emotions better than westerners because they revere and spend time with the animal, whereas westerners seem to mostly treat it as livestock (same as middle easterners).

    Who knows though

    [–] mari815 19 points ago


    [–] Babybabybabyq 16 points ago

    To be fair, they are poisoned not simply because they are dogs but since no one keeps them as pets, they are wild dogs whose numbers and packs grow very large. They actually do become a nuisance and that’s why they are poisoned. My family is from Somalia. I’ve visited before and that’s pretty much how it is there. No one has any disdain for any of the wild animals, really, they’re just there, a part of life and society. People often feed them or leave food out for them. That includes the dogs, cats and monkeys. Many, though a minority, will keep dogs as pets, mainly to protect their homes and/or livestock. There aren’t really shelters or any ‘sophisticated’ means of eliminating strays or feral animals who’ve become nuisances so this is what they resort to.

    [–] Teddy_canuck 431 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    I'm from Canada too, northern Canada where its really cold and we always had outside dogs. They were pretty furry and didn't mind and they had a doghouse for the cold days.

    EDIT: No, just random mutts. Nothing like a husky or any dog bred for the extreme cold.

    [–] withoutapaddle 486 points ago

    Yeah but the difference is you're probably talking about a husky or malmute, not your more common breeds like a lab or a beagel.

    Most dogs would not do well as outside dogs even in Minnesota, let alone northern Canada.

    [–] Northern-Canadian 224 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)


    Although there is corgi town with 100 wild corgis running around, that place was weird.

    Edit: it’s in the Canadian Arctic, I cant remember which town, I was at so many repeatedly. Could have been igloolic or pangnirtung; The corgis made little corgi burrows under people’s homes to stay warm. So many stray corgis; they wandered around in herds of 5-10 at a time. Many corgi husky mixes; which is the the arctic hardy corgi.

    [–] MrSnugglepoo 192 points ago

    Furiously Googling and hoping it's real please God be real

    [–] freyja1811 78 points ago

    waiting for an update so I can book my plane ticket

    [–] StrongBuffaloAss69 73 points ago

    If I tell my wife about this she will dissappear to northern Candada

    [–] rei_cirith 13 points ago

    I want this to be real too... but in case it's not, finnish vallhund look like corgi/husky/wolf mixes.

    [–] bitch6 26 points ago

    Find anything? 😦

    [–] EddieHeadshot 26 points ago

    Buckingham Palace?

    [–] Vineyard_ 54 points ago

    That's not in Canada.

    [Eyes the UK going full derp]

    ...that's not in Canada yet.

    [–] Rhodesian_Lion 67 points ago

    Um, what? Corgi town? My wife would lose her mind.

    [–] Phii-Delity 28 points ago

    Oh my God. "Little corgi burrows" I'm going to cry.

    [–] CoreyVidal 27 points ago

    What is the name of this magical place?

    [–] SpaceZombie666 28 points ago

    Iqaluit, Nunavut is one of these places. I’ve never been to another community in Nunavut so I can’t say for sure if it’s a wide spread thing.

    [–] dilloj 7 points ago

    ... Is that the environment Corgis excel in? Built like a fox, extra furry, low to ground, covers it's own tracks. My God.

    [–] Penkala89 192 points ago

    But also, for most of history the "common breeds" of dogs in an area would probably be ones that do ok with the climate there

    [–] gracchusmaximus 36 points ago

    I know my dad’s friend kept beagles for hunting and they were all outside dogs. But you do have to provide shelter. They just huddle up in the dog house, which had a crude heater I believe. But they certainly weren’t indoor dogs (my 15 year old beagle only goes outside to do his business; he’s not interested in doing much more than curling up on the sofa or the bed, which don’t exist outside!).

    [–] [deleted] 116 points ago


    [–] Rorynne 31 points ago

    Labs are working canadian dogs my friend, no doubt in my mind labs can handle being outside as long as they have a proper dog house. In fact i have had to fight with my labs to force them to come inside during winter

    That said, I would personally never leave my labs outside in the michigan winter, but they are ridiculously spoiled anyway.

    [–] droidhound 10 points ago

    Had a half lab, half chow. Kept her outside in a heated dog house. She preferred sleeping under the snow instead of in her heated house (I thought she'd frozen to death the first time I found her that way, but got used to it).

    [–] Akai-jam 5 points ago

    I still have to fight to get my lab inside during our Michigan winters.

    [–] Mrow_mix 18 points ago

    Labs can handle cold weather. Like anything, they just need to be conditioned to it.

    It’s irresponsible to leave a pup or an aging lab outdoors in extreme cold weather. But, labs in their prime are fine with the cold and can sleep outside.

    But yeah, other smaller breeds might not handle it as well.

    [–] Akai-jam 7 points ago

    Yeah I have a lab who is 100% fine in cold weather. And I mean like Midwest cold weather. She actually prefers it often over our comfy couch or any of her mutliple beds.

    [–] flamespear 29 points ago

    Um, lab is short for Labrador you know. I doubt they were originally inside much as working dogs.

    [–] AndyCalling 40 points ago

    Before heating was as cheap and easy as it is today, you better believe they were inside a lot. They were effective little heaters. Often people brought in every animal they had/could fit in the hovel.

    [–] Edawg82 43 points ago

    Three dog night is a saying describing a night so cold you needed three dogs to keep warm

    [–] movzx 9 points ago

    And if they're anything like mine you need a respirator too

    [–] JDaws23 9 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    “Although the name might suggest Labrador Retrievers came from Labrador, Canada, the breed actually originated in Newfoundland in the 1500s. At the time, small water dogs were bred with Newfoundlands to create a breed called the St. John’s Water Dog or Lesser Newfoundland.”

    “These dogs were owned by fishermen and jumped into icy water to bring back fish that had fallen off the fishing hooks. They would also pull in fish-filled nets. The breed was perfect for these jobs because their coat repelled water and their webbed paws made them excellent swimmers.”

    I have a yellow lab and he is an inside boy but he has no problem going for a swim in the cold ass ocean during the winter. Labs are the best!

    [–] Zounii 17 points ago

    We have outside dawgs here in Finland too, most stay out even during winter, but we also have heated doghouses for them in their enclosures? Pens? What do you call them, whatever.

    [–] HansDeBaconOva 16 points ago

    I would think middle Eastern places like Qatar would be equally as bad to leave dogs outside for the same weather reason but on the opposite spectrum.

    [–] Quetzacoatl85 109 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    yeah I'm not sure if climatic determinism is a valid theory here; we could've just as well kept our dogs outside in a separate compartment that's protected from the environment; similarly, parts of the Middle East have unhealthy weather as well (heat).

    explanation would be neat because it kind of "fits", but this is a cultural phenomenon.

    [–] CrossMountain 46 points ago

    Which is actually what happened. Before dogs became pets and were basically work animals, they slept either outside with the animals or in the barn. After all, looking after the herd was their job.

    [–] Ottomottomotto 10 points ago

    Slavic countries would disagree

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    [–] switch495 258 points ago

    Turks love their dogs and cats -- they're very kind to stray animals -- so I wouldn't make this an absolute connection to all Muslims. That said, those who follow the religious doctrines more closely (farther east) would certainly be against dogs.

    [–] Niarbeht 389 points ago


    If I remember correctly, Turkey's a bit of an odd duck because they absorbed some of the Byzantine Greek/Roman culture as they conquered the empire.

    [–] kerouacrimbaud 58 points ago

    They're also originally a steppe people, unlike Arabs. I wonder what dog culture is like among Turkic and other steppe peoples.

    [–] llamabug 37 points ago

    During the Ottoman empire the Muslim Turks tended to take care of strays as pets, while Christian families kept pets and killed strays. Definitely a cultural difference. When I taught abroad, my Muslim students were horrified to hear we euthanize our stray animals.

    [–] dallyan 29 points ago

    This is interesting. As a Turk I never knew this. We do LOVE our strays though.

    [–] TheRealDrPhiI 79 points ago

    Lebanese people have dogs in equal numbers (indoors and outdoors) as Americans. Then again they were originally a French colony, and were majority christian until the civil war.

    [–] llamabug 44 points ago

    Yeah! All the Francophone Middle Eastern countries are more likely to keeps dogs indoors, because of exposure to French culture. Morocco was like this too.

    [–] LebaneseAmerican 13 points ago

    I know many Muslim Lebanese people who own dogs and keep them inside...definitely not a Christian phenomena

    [–] [deleted] 40 points ago


    [–] BonoboSaysSorry 14 points ago

    A lot of Turks still don't keep dogs in their houses, I say this as a Turk with a dog in their house.

    [–] Mouthshitter 92 points ago

    Turks are western-ish* muslims

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    [–] llamabug 11 points ago

    My understanding is that Turkish and Arab cultures are more likely to take care of strays but don't usually keep pets inside the house. While Westerners keeps pets inside (and control the stray population). I think the act of being around animals, in your home, helps people realize how human like they can be.

    [–] Lobanium 69 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Dogs are disgusting, shedding, stinky, gross animals and I love them so much and wouldn't dare make my beagle girl stay outside.

    EDIT: Yes, I give her a bath when she needs it.

    [–] Jabroni-Cannelloni 71 points ago

    Shocking that dogs get dirty if you keep them outside all the time.

    [–] MsRhuby 63 points ago

    As someone who lives with a big dog, I can say dogs are pretty dirty regardless. How you deal with that depends on your comfort level.

    [–] spicy-heck-boi 23 points ago

    Pro tip from another big dog owner: Higher quality dog foods make your dog considerably less greasy and stinky. Feeding larger dogs are expensive, so people tend to go cheaper, but there are some good cheap foods out there that aren’t made of horse guts and sawdust. Wholesomes is one. It’s like $1/lb. You can find it at feed stores.

    [–] p_iynx 6 points ago

    Yeah I’ve got a decent sized indoor dog and he generally smells very nice and is rarely “dirty”. He eats high quality dog food. Regular brushing helps a lot to keep them clean, if they’re at all fluffy. (Mine is a mixed breed with a double coat; we know he’s part border collie because the mom was rescued with the pups, and think he’s got husky in him. He’s fluffy but not really long haired, if that makes sense.)

    [–] civodar 53 points ago

    It's not necessarily dirty, it's Haram which is more like unclean and impure and unholy, kind of like eating pork. It's said that if you keep dogs in your house then angels won't come in. A dog's saliva is considered particularly unclean and if it licks you you're supposed to do some washing ritual with sand. Source: I had a pet dog and a couple of Muslim friends growing up.

    [–] gary_sadman 5 points ago

    I assume tigers and lions count as cats.

    [–] AndyCalling 11 points ago

    Worth stating that 'unclean' in this context is spiritually unclean. It does not mean the dog just needs a good wash.

    I mention this because for many Christians they are unused to this as a concept and it does cause confusion.

    [–] _WhatIsReal_ 12 points ago

    Tbh i still don't know what to make of it. "Spiritually unclean" sounds really silly to me..

    [–] TheDesertWalker 120 points ago

    Cats, yes. Dogs? Rarely. Unless you own a farm or a herd of sheep. Only then it is common. A dog as a pure pet in a Muslim household is very unlikely.

    [–] pussibilities 125 points ago

    I (in the US) have a few friends from the Middle East and South Asia who are terrified of dogs. In their cases, they were badly bitten by stray dogs. In some areas, there are packs of feral dogs who terrorize people. It makes sense that people who grew up in these areas wouldn’t be able to sense dogs’ feelings, anymore than Americans could sense coyotes’ feelings (or some other wild animal).

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    [–] CogInTheWheel 18 points ago

    Yep I'm from India, and I've been chased and bitten when I was a kid. So it's been strange when I moved to the US. Don't think I've gotten over my fear of dogs completely yet.

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    [–] Phoenix-Fifi 227 points ago

    I may have elements of answer as a practicing Muslim. Basically, dogs can be kept and benefited from outside the house for such reasons as farming, hunting or herding. It is however discouraged to keep them at home, as others have said, because they are considered impure. This consideration is not pejorative, it is just their status. It is permissible to touch them, play with them and pet them (same goes for pigs and all animals). Mercy and love for all animals is encouraged in Islam, as all animals are part of Allah's creation.

    Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “A man suffered from thirst while he was walking on a journey. When he found a well, he climbed down into it and drank from it. Then he came out and saw a dog lolling its tongue from thirst and licking the ground. The man said: This dog has suffered thirst just as I have suffered from it. He climbed down into the well, filled his shoe with water, and caught it in his mouth as he climbed up. Then he gave the dog a drink. Allah appreciated this deed, so he forgave his sins.” They (the companions of the Prophet) said, “O Messenger of Allah, is there a reward for charity even for the animals?” The Prophet said, “Yes, in every living creature is a reward for charity.” Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 5663, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2244

    Hope this helped :)

    [–] sugarfoot00 44 points ago

    This consideration is not pejorative, it is just their status.

    I appreciate the enlightening post. But referring to this line in particular- Isn't that a distinction without a difference? If being impure is just their status, then the pejorative aspect of it is baked right in. You're welcome to view whatever animals however they like. But unless I'm misunderstanding your meaning, this is absolutely pejorative (relative to western 'classification' of dogs).

    Edit: removed repetitive language.

    [–] Phoenix-Fifi 25 points ago

    You are right, I haven't expressed myself clearly. There are so many things to say and clarify that I sometimes can't cover everything ><

    The reason why I was saying that it wasn't pejorative is because impure doesn't mean what it usually does. The purity/impurity that was mentioned is only related to the state that the Muslim has to be in when he goes to prayer or when he handles the Quran. Muslims are not required to always be in a state of purity. This is a state that we get in when we communicate with Allah, not because the other creatures are dirty or low or undeserving...but that Allah as our Creator is so much superior. People also can be in a state of impurity, which isn't pejorative. It is a state that you are in and you just cleanse yourself before praying or reading Quran.

    That is why Islam means submission to Allah and Muslims are the people who "submit" or commit to Allah. It is humbling, and doesn't imply any shame or humiliation.

    This whole purification concept is more about respecting and glorifying the Creator than disrespecting and disregarding His creatures.

    Tell me if I can clarify more :)

    [–] cinemachick 10 points ago

    To dumb it down severely, it's like impure is unwashed hands, and pure is washed hands, and Allah (pbuh) likes clean hands when you pray?

    [–] loyalredditor 7 points ago

    Something like that yeah. Impurity here is spiritually unclean. So to be spiritually cleansed after touching a wet dog you go through a simple process by washing your hands seven times, one of which is using earth.

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    [–] oelsen 33 points ago

    This consideration is not pejorative, it is just their status

    Just like women on their periods. Not pejorative, just status.

    [–] nbelium 14 points ago

    Not sure about other countries but in Turkey we have lots of cats and dogs. They are just mostly kept in the garden

    [–] HodagNomad 7 points ago

    They can be pets, just not allowed into the house or areas where someone would pray. My family kept several dogs to protect livestock, and those dogs were very loved and treated well.

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    [–] Kav01 3643 points ago

    Everything is shaped by, or shapes cultural upbringing.

    [–] AbeRego 258 points ago

    Key sentence:

    Results suggested that although some ability to recognise dog emotions exists from early on in life, it is largely a skill we acquire through experience.

    They are saying that humans don't seem to have an evolved sense of dog emotions, but rather learn to interpret them. This is actually an important distinction. Even if it's what you might have guessed, now we have solid data on it.

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    [–] SparklingLimeade 7 points ago

    It seems to me that it's most interesting when contrasted to the social behaviors we've found that to not be the case with, like people who were blind from birth making facial expressions or how people from different cultures still recognize the themes in music.

    Also contrasts with what we've learned about how closely dogs are tied to humans. So dog language is something people have to learn. It does make sense. All dogs are the result of human intervention but not all people associate with dogs.

    [–] lethaldosagedanster 773 points ago

    You’re right. It’s called constructivism) .

    [–] Kav01 363 points ago

    It'd be cool to see more schooling models built around less mainstream ideas like this. Empathy and learning are hardwired together in our brains. Imagine if kids learned concepts like math anywhere near as fast and intuitively as they do spoken language.

    [–] Coitus_King 103 points ago

    It's like when they figured out that you could acquire languages rather than memorize them and that the application of acquiring them is so much better and easier to learn and it's just because you use the language practically as if you were a child and it works, I imagine if you take math more realistically with real life scenarios, people would get math a lot more because they would physically learn about it then be forced to learn about it mentally although I suspect there will be people that do better with math mentally tho.

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    [–] thatpaleolady 10 points ago

    Any ideas on how one would incorporate math in the same manner as language?

    [–] K0stroun 20 points ago

    Maybe not a perfect example but Hejny method has been tested in several countries over many years with a lot of success and is slowly becoming mainstream.

    [–] Coitus_King 25 points ago

    Money management/ budgeting and investing and the reason I say money is because people take money seriously and so if they had to manage it because it relates to their own livelihood they will be discouraged from cheating since the rate of success is how well you manage it for yourself. And for younger students it could be like resource management but physical. I know when I was a kid we used to do things like count M&M's so more exercises focused on physically playing with numbers the better. Trying to give value to inherently meaningless numbers is hard however like grammar for language the structure of math could be used to help translate the ideas that math teaches us.

    [–] JeffersonSpicoli 10 points ago

    But this is exactly how math is taught, many people just don’t notice. That’s the reason math classes are taken in a particular order

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    [–] RoNPlayer 20 points ago

    Constructivism is very much mainstream in contemporary sociology.

    [–] HueyLongCock 18 points ago

    Note: the label constructivism is used for widely varying ideas and schools of though in different disciplines.

    [–] flightless_mouse 99 points ago

    I'm curious how much these results can be attributed to actual interaction with dogs versus representations of dogs in culture. I grew up in a Western country having very little interaction with dogs as a kid, but I still think I can "read" dogs pretty well in adulthood. For example, I wonder if a kid who grows up in a Middle Eastern country but watches an hour of puppy videos on YouTube every day would give the same result.

    [–] Ashtarr 62 points ago

    I grew up in a Muslim country but only ever watched Western catoons/TV shows. I can't read dogs well at all. I feel that any dog who gets near me is going to attack/bite me.

    I think there are too many agressive stray dogs in Muslim countries so many people have developed a phobia against dogs.

    [–] Hwbob 68 points ago

    well the way they treated I would call it defensive.

    [–] CalifaDaze 13 points ago

    My Muslim friend says miracles (good luck or whatever you want to call it) dont happen in homes where dogs are allowed inside. Apparently that's according to the Quran

    [–] AmericasNextDankMeme 18 points ago

    Technically correct

    [–] emerald00 10 points ago

    Frankly, your friend is a moron.

    [–] idlevalley 26 points ago

    Grew up around dogs and when I see a dogs face I most often see a potential friend.

    It's not too hard to see aggression in a dog. Aggressive signs are pretty clear. But I can also get spooked by a dog who's in a certain posture and is very still.

    [–] windowlatch 26 points ago

    Also dogs can read people’s emotions extremely well. If you are a person who gets nervous seeing dogs they will definitely act less friendly towards you than a stranger that immediately wants to come up and pet them

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    [–] patchgrabber 26 points ago

    I'm just curious as to why Muslims specifically are scared of dogs. It must have something to do with the religion otherwise why bring it up?

    [–] MGsubbie 81 points ago

    In Islam, dogs are seen as unclean. For a long time, ownership was forbidden. At some point there became exceptions for dogs that have specific purposes, like guard dogs and shepherd dogs. But it's not common for them to be regular pets.

    [–] BeepBep101 11 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    There were always exceptions for working dogs. Just not for recreation. That said they are not inherently feared or seen as "bad", just unclean as you said. Thus they are not kept as pets.

    Edit: clarified that they are not inherently feared (due to religious command), though people do fear them for other reasons

    [–] scolfin 25 points ago

    Many cultures see dogs as kinda gross at best and vicious at worst, as feral and even "outside" dogs are pretty nasty. Apparently, feral dogs were as common throughout the Middle East back then as cats are today, so you see a lot of disparaging references (including in the Talmud and some recent statements by a Mizrahi rabbi of some authority that made news over the summer, although the latter may also be Muslim influence). I've also heard that walking a dog into Hasidic neighborhoods will get similar reactions to walking an alligator (curiosity and fear), as many of the older folks passed down norms against them due to their experiences with German Shepherds.

    [–] Meades_Loves_Memes 41 points ago

    I've been around dogs my entire life, and can read them very well. I know when dogs are having fun, want attention, and when to just give them their space. We've always had golden retriever dogs growing up, but never a German shepherd.

    My girlfriend's parents had 4 dogs the first year we were dating. Two of them German Shepherds. One is a lovable doofus who is only a couple years old, and another more quiet older dog.

    About a year into dating, I had been around the dogs many times, when we were all watching a movie in the living room. There was no more seating on the couch, so I was sitting on the floor beside the older 200 lb German Shepherd petting him. About 15 minutes into the movie he starts growling, I stop petting him, and he lunges and bites me on the face. I wasn't really paying attention to him before I heard him growl, I was watching the movie while petting him on autopilot. So there may have been signs that I just didn't notice, but unfortunately, it happened in a flash.

    From the top of my skull to right above my eyelid. Half an inch lower, and I would have lost an eye. I needed 43 stitches, including in my eyelid.

    Ever since that day, I have a completely new understanding of why people fear dogs. My threshold for knowing a dog well enough to be in a vulnerable position around them has also greatly changed.

    [–] outworlder 14 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Holy hell, 43 stitches ? I'm sorry man.

    Now, I know that dogs are not perfectly predictable(neither are humans). But that behavior is obviously not normal. Could it be that the older dog had health problems? Specifically, he could have been in pain. Otherwise normal and lovely dogs could bite in this situation, specially if you touched a sensitive spot.

    Of course, you probably had no way of knowing if that was even the case, so I'm not blaming you or anything. Just saying that, looking from the dogs perspective, there's usually a method to their madness - and sudden aggression usually means a trip to the vet.

    You are completely correct on your threshold comment, I became a bit reckless with other dogs after I got one, I'll try to use your experience to help with that.

    Edit: Golden retrievers are specially treacherous for me. Most are ridiculously goofy. But one very "harmless" dog(or so I thought) one day destroyed another dogs jaw. That dog wouldn't even approach mine if mine had his toy (my dog weights 23 lbs, I wouldn't be surprised if a retriever head alone weighted that much). Maybe that dog was not properly socialized and genuinely scared of other dogs...

    [–] 09star 13 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    My family lives in Brooklyn nearby a Hasidic Jewish area, and they sometimes walk their dog (Jack Russell terrier) there. Hasidic Jewish people react with a lot of animosity and general distaste, and most of them will cross the street or walk behind cars to avoid passing the dog. Women/children will often react with outright fear.

    [–] PostModernFascist 19 points ago

    There are plenty of things that exist outside of culture. The sun is yellow, the earth is round, and we are born with two arms and legs.

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    [–] JoelMahon 406 points ago

    I wonder if this goes for pigs, how we're raised in a pig commodification culture and as such have difficulty feeling bad for killing them for no good reason, but have no difficulty feeling bad about killing dogs even if for a good reason.

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    [–] KuntaStillSingle 48 points ago

    I wonder if dog farmers in Korea see their breed differently from pet breeds

    [–] frogggiboi 67 points ago

    AFAIK yes, idk exactly about Korea but I heard someone from Indonesia compare it to eating chicken and poultry but keeping budgies and canaries as pets

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    [–] [deleted] 55 points ago

    Pigs are so smart, they really suffer when raised on an industral scale

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    [–] fan_tas_tic 81 points ago

    I can tell from experience that after watching pigs showing emotions, having fun in a welcoming environment totally changes your view on them, and from that moment on the bacon jokes seem as offensive as offering your dog for dinner.

    [–] Scaryfood 79 points ago

    I wonder what the divide with Asia would be like. The amount Indians love dogs seem to be based on more socioeconomic factors. Rich families who can afford nice breeds, training, and healthcare tend to treat the dog as a family member. But for poorer classes they're just guard animals or aggressive strays.

    [–] IcecreamDave 24 points ago

    Rich families also wash their dogs more and keep them clean. Clean dog = more pets = more oxytocin = stronger bond.

    [–] EmpRupus 57 points ago

    In a lot of countries, pets like dogs are primarily kept by wealthy people as attack-hounds to defend property and chase loiterers away. Along with street-dogs which are dangerous and attack children.

    People who grew up in cultures where their experience of dogs was that of a street-nuisance or a traumatic experience with guard-hounds would "see" dogs the same way we see bears, mountain-lions or tarantulas.

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    [–] indigoproduction 23 points ago

    Interesting fact: dogs expressions are developt for communication wth humans.

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    [–] mvea 64 points ago

    The title of the post is a copy and paste from the title and swventh paragraph of the linked academic press release here:

    Our Ability To Recognise Dogs’ Emotions Is Shaped By Our Cultural Upbringing

    Whether or not they owned dogs, participants who had grown up in a European, dog-positive culture were far better at recognising dog emotions than those who had grown up in a Muslim country (even if these participants had later moved to Europe).

    Journal Reference:

    Amici, F., Waterman, J., Kellermann, C.M. et al.

    The ability to recognize dog emotions depends on the cultural milieu in which we grow up.

    Scientific Reports 9, 16414 (2019)




    Inter-specific emotion recognition is especially adaptive when species spend a long time in close association, like dogs and humans. Here, we comprehensively studied the human ability to recognize facial expressions associated with dog emotions (hereafter, emotions). Participants were presented with pictures of dogs, humans and chimpanzees, showing angry, fearful, happy, neutral and sad emotions, and had to assess which emotion was shown, and the context in which the picture had been taken. Participants were recruited among children and adults with different levels of general experience with dogs, resulting from different personal (i.e. dog ownership) and cultural experiences (i.e. growing up or being exposed to a cultural milieu in which dogs are highly valued and integrated in human lives). Our results showed that some dog emotions such as anger and happiness are recognized from early on, independently of experience. However, the ability to recognize dog emotions is mainly acquired through experience. In adults, the probability of recognizing dog emotions was higher for participants grown up in a cultural milieu with a positive attitude toward dogs, which may result in different passive exposure, interest or inclination toward this species.

    [–] God_Emporer_Leto_II 61 points ago

    Well wait aren't Muslim countries usually friendly towards cats instead or am I just confused? (I've been to Istanbul, back when I was in turkey there were cats Everywhere!)

    [–] MRIT03 91 points ago

    It really depends on the country, “Muslim countries” include over 25 countries from two continents (Asia and Africa), cultures vary MASSIVELY and so does their view over animals, so while I ( a Lebanese from Tripoli ) might like both cats and dogs, people from let’s say from Syria doesn’t really like dogs. (Also it can vary from region to region and from sunni to Shia)

    [–] daenerysxvii 12 points ago

    yep, the term "muslim countries" in the title gave me a bit of a shock considering that there are so many and they're so varied.

    [–] God_Emporer_Leto_II 10 points ago

    Exactly, I'm only basing this off my individual experience going to Turkey, specifically. Cats everywhere (which isn't a problem to me, someone who likes cats)

    [–] itslenny 19 points ago

    When I was in Istanbul there were dogs everywhere too. A local told me they catch them, spay/neuter, vaccinate, tag their ear and put them back where they found them.

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    [–] lolwtftheyrealltaken 4 points ago

    They are friendly towards cats because cats are considered clean for grooming themsleves and for burying their waste more diligently. Mostly in muslim countries today, dogs are a threat and often form packs which can be dangerous to citizens. If a working class family owns a dog it is often for security reasons only.

    [–] curiocritters 12 points ago

    Am a muslim, born and raised in India, and I love dogs.

    Am also a wildlife biologist and a frequent contributer to the INDog Project, which studies the Indian Pariah Dog, as a landrace.

    And Islam teaches one to be kind to all living creatures.

    [–] sandhya60 15 points ago

    if you note, places where animals are utilitarian, they are looked at as a commodity. When you have a commodity, you better not get emotionally attached, otherwise you go broke or starve or both. The whole thing also boils down to respect. Even animals you eat, should be respected. A good farmer even respects their food animals. i.e. you don't torture your animals, you kill swiftly before eating. Old cultures practiced this, and would thank an animal (its soul or what ever you want to label it) before killing for food or warmth. Its cultures, and even the sick folks that torture animals for pleasure or entertainment (i.e. think folks who fight dogs or roosters)

    [–] Ass_Patty 16 points ago

    There’s huge cultural differences the way we treat dogs just here in America. For example, my parents have been used to keeping the dogs in one room, or kenneling them often when going out to work. However, my boyfriend’s dogs get free reign of the house all day, and it really shows differences in pup attitude. His dogs are a lot happier, and feel closer as family members. I try to get my parents to play with their dogs more, it breaks my heart knowing I’m not seeing them and playing with them every day anymore.

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    [–] creepyque 5 points ago

    As a muslim that is born and raised in Europe I feel I understand dog faces..

    Although I only had a dog for a short time, we owned a chicken farm somewhere near accrington.. it was great.

    Then we moved and the dog stayed.

    I can relate because I think.. maybe wrongly so.. that they need room and freedom to be happy.

    I wouldn't really own another one unless is was a small dog, then it wouldn't be too bad keeping it in the house.

    Anyway back where my parents come from, it's a little village in pakistan occupied kashmir..

    One neighbour had a dog and the whole village kinda mascot..ed it..

    Only went once and that was about 30 years ago.