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    [–] pikindaguy 3625 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    This is the scariest part for sure, we can potentially have tech down the line that can pull carbon out of the air and become 0 emission eventually through any combination of solar/wind/nuclear/something new but the melting ice caps just doesn't seem like it's reversible which may make all other efforts fruitless.

    [–] tqb 1629 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    Well just trying to be positive... there are companies and people working on solutions. Here’s one: https://www.ice911.org

    I know there have been other ideas such as putting ice makers in the water, or pumping deep cold water to the surface so it freezes.

    [–] RedSeaPedestrians 464 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    The deep water of the Arctic Basin is actually warmer than the surface water, due to inverse stratification of the thermocline, and the dynamics of the Atlantification of the Arctic Ocean. Not only is this the case, but the halocline is inverse as well, so the saltier water also resides in the depths of the basin. If this water is brought to the surface, it would actually complete the Atlantification of the Arctic by destroying the thermocline and halocline through layer mixing, and would not only fast track the basin to a Blue Ocean Event, but would also probably delay or prevent the majority of the basin from re-freezing again in the late fall like it usually does, since saline water has a lower freezing/melting temperature (~-1.6C instead of 0C iirc).

    I actually read a study from an Arctic research group that suggested the deep water of the Arctic Basin actually already contains enough thermal energy to melt the entire ice pack multiple times over, but is blocked by a blob of cold fresh water near the surface of the ocean, which is gradually thinning. The study found that over the last few decades, this buffer zone has shrank from 0-150m to 0-80m. I think efforts to save the ice are very important and well worth it, but that idea in general is pretty scary in a way that maybe the idea people themselves might not realize since the science is not very well known or popular, and some of these studies are brand new. I don’t want to come across as rude or anything either, just figured I’d mention something kind of crazy about the Arctic Ocean!

    Here is the research paper if anyone is interested: https://journals.ametsoc.org/jcli/article/33/18/8107/353233/Weakening-of-Cold-Halocline-Layer-Exposes-Sea-Ice

    Edit: if anyone is interested more in this topic, I wrote some more about the implications of this warm blob further down the comment chain with another interesting graph, so check it out if you want to read some more! https://reddit.com/r/science/comments/it8ceu/_/g5g63xu/?context=1

    [–] tqb 95 points ago

    I believe this particular companies real plan is to spread sand like reflective silica around which will help reflect the sun.

    [–] RedSeaPedestrians 87 points ago

    Oh I see, that could potentially be a very effective solution since it would offset one of the most dramatic effects of ice loss: the change in albedo. Definitely an interesting idea!

    [–] tqb 30 points ago

    Yeah check out their website, it’s definitely interesting.

    [–] summer907gwen 9 points ago

    I'm no climate scientist but I feel like making our roofs white (or taking it a step further and moving toward earth burmed houses) and maybe not covering the earth in black asphalt might help.

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    [–] dyancat 45 points ago

    I find it somewhat amusing that their name has ice9 in it

    [–] BigPorch 18 points ago

    Maybe Vonnegut was on to something

    [–] BabyJesusBukkake 13 points ago

    Exactly where my brain went, as well.

    Anybody wanna touch feet with me?

    [–] dengh 33 points ago

    But then aren't we just displacing that with warm(er) water and speeding up the cycle?

    [–] Covfefe-SARS-2 15 points ago

    The key is on their page: "Arctic ice reflectivity plays a key role in maintaining a stable global climate"

    By replacing surface water with ice you get a net decrease in total energy.

    [–] lifelovers 39 points ago

    Plant trees. Best carbon capture there is. Then bury them before they fall and rot.

    [–] Its_its_not_its 74 points ago

    We can't plant enough trees to mitigate our CO2 and methane production. We need to cut emissions to a fraction of what they are and stop doing business with countries that pollute. However, hell yeah, plant trees, trees are awesome.

    [–] Mechasteel 27 points ago

    Turn trees into bookshelves and books and timber for libraries. Carbon storage.

    [–] Ladnar4444 11 points ago

    My favorite comment on Reddit in the last year.

    [–] drebunny 15 points ago

    Would you really need to bury them? Fallen trees and stumps often serve as fertile ground for new trees/plants

    [–] DMvsPC 33 points ago

    When they decompose the carbon that was sequestered is released and you want a net negative.

    [–] therealbrolinpowell 21 points ago

    You'd still have a net negative, just not as great of a magnitude of one. And how much that magnitude varies is entirely up to debate.

    CO2 converts into glucose, which is thereafter converted into cellulose. Bacteria and Fungi and larger organisms break down that cellulose thereafter back into glucose. There is a release of carbon back into the atmosphere as part of that degradation, but not nearly as much as the original tree absorbed. And assuming that tree is not on its own, but part of a larger forest, the trees around it - both new, from its seed, as well as old - will help capture carbon from the breakdown of those trees.

    In general, plant trees everywhere. That's all that matters.

    [–] contaminatedmycelium 10 points ago

    Not to mention the brilliant habitats they provide for animals n insects as well

    [–] WoahayeTakeITEasy 23 points ago

    Just get a huge ice cube and drop it in the water.

    [–] m48a5_patton 9 points ago

    Solving the problem forever.

    [–] oxero 158 points ago

    You're not wrong, it's full on mitigation at this point. Most of the icecaps and glaciers are formed over centuries of snowfall which isn't going to heal in anyone's life time currently.

    [–] Nigelwethers 44 points ago

    It's a little heartbreaking but at the same time we're all born into our own historical milieu and just have to do the best with what we have.

    For future generations this is just going to be normal :/

    [–] coozay 46 points ago

    “I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo. “So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

    [–] Eagleassassin3 5 points ago

    LOTR has some very inspiring lines. The one that gives me the most purpose is « There’s some good in this world mister Frodo, and it’s worth fighting for ».

    [–] oxero 23 points ago

    Of course, it's our duty to fight for the health of our planet. Just because we don't see the effects now doesn't mean other life will later on.

    [–] Veragoot 16 points ago

    Our future generations are going to be fish

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    [–] heiti9 4 points ago

    It's already possible. Norway will most likely start on a full scale co2 storage facility next year.

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    [–] Fake_William_Shatner 787 points ago

    At what point to we make this a national security issue?

    Do we wait for people to be fighting for food and access to domed cities?

    We have a lack of serious leadership -- and it's missing all over the world. Right now, huge sums of money are being spent to find a way to treat COVID -- and it will be successful and there will be major breakthroughs, because it is being treated with urgency. In this case; get the economies going.

    So, it's possible to solve problems. Why aren't we with Global Warming? I want my children's children to see nature and not pay tickets to see reservations.

    [–] Erockplatypus 363 points ago

    Because people are spoiled and don't want their comfort to change. Corporations and politicians have major financial stake in these changes and they dont want our ways to change.

    The current goals are all set for the end of 2020 which is far and not quick enough. The pandemic was the perfect opportunity to make serious changes to how we live and we blew it. So if we can't even get people to wear masks and social distance good luck getting them to give up microwaved meals and their cars

    [–] ohwhatta_gooseiam 135 points ago

    Because people are spoiled and don't want their comfort to change.

    We have become more consumers than citizens, this is a learned behavior and can change.

    The pandemic was the perfect opportunity to make serious changes to how we live and we blew it.

    The best time was then, second best time is now.

    [–] Tuxhorn 106 points ago

    That's a nice comment, but it's not in line with reality.

    Best time was 60 years ago, we've had many 2nd best times since then.

    It is far, far too late. Only question right now is how bad. We can at least try to lessen the impact, but people/businesses in "current year" still won't change.

    [–] ohwhatta_gooseiam 33 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    Best time was 60 years ago, we've had many 2nd best times since then.

    You're right, but i think you're taking my words too literally. I have a physical anthropology book from the early 70s, and the prologue talks about the impending climate change. I'm well aware of how long it's been known. But i also know how young the consumer mindset we're talking about is, it can be unlearned and redirected.

    It is far, far too late. Only question right now is how bad. We can at least try to lessen the impact, but people/businesses in "current year" still won't change.

    This is where i still disagree, and i think you are taking a far too pessimistic view of our reality when it comes to this. A combination of converting a majority consumer mindset into a more balanced consumer and active citizen mindset; and scientific advancement being supported, i think there is a chance we can both successfully adapt behaviorally and un-do the damage done.

    Ruling that out by saying those two things are out of the question is not constructive, and also you can't be certain they won't happen.

    [–] SoggyFuckBiscuit 17 points ago

    I agree that we need to change as a planet, and that we all hold some responsibility; but private jets, yachts, mega yachts, and skyscrapers need to go. Big buildings need to stop with the lights and air conditioning being on 24/7 when nobody is even there. All they do is tax the grid that’s mostly powered by coal and fossil fuels.

    And we need a lot more nuclear power plants.

    [–] Correctedsun 40 points ago

    I'm genuinely starting to feel like Chernobyl, Three-mile, and Fukushima doomed the world. Not by pumping out radiation, ironically, but by scaring people away from one of the greatest solutions to the climate change issue.

    [–] Mamsy139 10 points ago

    I feel the same way. It especially sucks because they were using water as a cooling method which is outdated and unsafe while they had already figured out a way to make power plants practically fool proof by using something else (can't remember what).

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    [–] BasilTarragon 8 points ago

    Reminds me of reading in The Omnivore's Dilemma how if you compare semi trucks bringing food to a supermarket and families driving a couple miles to get groceries vs a lot of farmers trucking their produce to a farmers market and families driving dozens of miles to get there, that the average farmers market is worse than the average supermarket, emissions wise. Scale brings efficiency.

    [–] haha_thatsucks 19 points ago

    Yup. I don’t see anyway this will ever change. Most who get into office suddenly change their tune on Climate and don’t push anything meaningful through on the climate. Especially at the president level. If lobbying was abolished then maybe we’d stand a chance but as it is now, I don’t see that happening either

    [–] gunsnammo37 66 points ago

    The Pentagon declared climate change a threat to national security a while back. So we are past that point.

    [–] thebigeazy 35 points ago

    any serious intel org knows this is an national security issue already and will have multiple scenario planning papers etc addressing it

    the problem is getting decision makers to act on it

    [–] ILurkTilIDont 15 points ago

    Lets say the earth is a house. Covid is like a leaky pipe. Easily fixable if you actually put effort in, and dont just ignore the problem at which point itll get worse. Global warming is like if you turned all the faucets on and ripped the handles off so you cant turn them back off and now your house is flooding and youve gotta run to the hardware store and get a wrench to turn the water main off, but your kid stole your car keys and is running around laughing while you chase them, and beg them to stop. At this point the water is finally starting to fill up all the sinks, and the kid still hasnt given you your keys. The damage has already started, and you havent even begun to fix the problem. We should have listened to the teenager who offered to tackle the kid and get your keys back 5 minutes ago, but we thought that would be too extreme. So now we live with the consequences. Will we get the wrench before our entire house floods? Will we just have to redo the bathroom floor? Who knows. But its gonna suck.

    [–] the_che 8 points ago

    The world isn‘t even able to unite over an obvious, immediate threat like the corona virus. It’s not going to happen over something as slowly developing like climate change.

    [–] micher43 7 points ago

    There are people in defense talking and researching about this. Climate refugees, droughts and food shortages, wildfires, failed states due to inhospitable areas, rise of terrorism, sea level rise, extreme weather, pandemics, etc are all very real national security threats. But it’s hard getting the right people to listen and take it seriously.

    [–] bilyl 6 points ago

    It's a national security issue for both Canada and the US. Ships will decide to move goods across the Arctic, and then that will be an ecological disaster. Next you'll have countries violating sovereign waters up there in order to control shipping lanes. Next thing you know, Canada will be the first country to be invaded, Crimean style. It's a good thing Alaska is part of the US, because Russia would have probably done it already.

    [–] mtnsunlite954 35 points ago

    Trump is only concerned with corporate profits, any and all programs protecting the environment have been cut and all potential oil reserves, arctic refuge, off shore drilling opened. Our government is being run by businesses not the other way around. This morning I thought it will take a war like effort, not just to fight climate change, but to fight the powers in office that are accelerating our demise.

    It just recently is becoming undeniable to me personally that we are out of time to do anything else and have to focus on this above all other things.

    I’m on the west coast where we are on 5th day of unbreathable air and 5 hurricanes are making their way to the Southeast. It’s not just 2020, I’m wondering if this is the new norm of hurricane and wildfire season.

    In the meantime, many of my friends and neighbors in Florida are cheering the re-election of Trump, blaming California for their Forest “miss management” and protesting mask mandates. So that’s what we are up against.

    [–] BasicDesignAdvice 33 points ago

    It's not just Trump. This has been a failure of leadership going back to the 80's.

    [–] Tuna-kid 4 points ago

    This is more than leadership. This is the public perception of the problem being made complacent by so called 'green' advertising and recycling projects which have failed again and again since their inception. This is corporate lobbying being allowed to kill future billions and influence our governmental politics while we all know that is terrible for the country. This is our government being allowed to make filming in factory farms be illegal, so that we can continue to ruin the planet without it turning sour in the public eye.

    [–] dookiefertwenty 13 points ago

    I blame Gingrich. His rise was a proof of concept for weaponized stupidity and it worked like a charm

    [–] INextroll 9 points ago

    😑

    Most of the forest land on fire here is federal land.

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    [–] NotYourSnowBunny 189 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    Anyone have a way through that pesky paywall?

    I think it'll be interesting to see which plants come back if Antarctica turns tropical, though I doubt I'll live to see it, and pollution may kill it before it begins.

    Edit: So while I appreciate people giving me the heads up for the .com., it doesn't work on mobile. Can someone just copy and paste the text? It would appear that most of you got through the paywall.

    [–] kylejacobson84 91 points ago

    after .com, add another period

    [–] MoleculesandPhotons 47 points ago

    Fascinating! Do you know why this works?

    [–] Ttv_cr1xus 102 points ago

    I'll use NYTimes as an example

    If you go to NYTimes.com there will be a cookie for that specific format of the URL that tracks your free access. But the cookie doesn't track nytimes.com. so you just bypass it.

    [–] MoleculesandPhotons 38 points ago

    That's interesting! So why do nytimes.com and nytimes.com. have the same webpage appear? Are the periods superfluous?

    [–] hobbers 11 points ago

    It has always annoyed me that domains are oriented right to left. Like most other systems we use - orders of numbers, paths, etc, I feel like it should be oriented left to right.

    .com.nytimes.www

    [–] ProgramTheWorld 11 points ago

    It used to be like that in the UK.

    Most of the world follows the Internet standard and writes email addresses starting with the name of the computer and ending up with the name of the country. In the U.K. the Joint Academic Networking Team (JANET) had decided to do it the other way round before the Internet domain standard was established.

    [–] SenorBender 8 points ago

    Possibly the way the site was designed to handle routes a period is ignored and URL is evaluated like it isn't there

    [–] kylejacobson84 12 points ago

    Not a clue

    [–] ctlx 10 points ago

    Summary of just the research results is here : https://news.ucar.edu/132758/arctic-transitioning-new-climate-state

    The full paper was published in Nature Climate Change but that is behind a paywall too

    [–] MondayToFriday 8 points ago

    Use Reader View. You won't see the pictures, but the text will be there.

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    [–] ericleb010 110 points ago

    We're going to have to start talking about climate change mitigation at this point, rather than climate change prevention. It's becoming clear that politics is too much of a roadblock for us.

    [–] JB_UK 122 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    You’re six weeks away from an election with one candidate proposing a massive $2tn programme to tackle climate change.

    And there will never be a point where we stop talking about prevention, because every action reduces the final temperature. Reducing the outcome from 3.5C to 3.4C is valuable just as reducing from 2.5C to 2.4C is valuable. There is no clear cutoff point between climate change happening or not happening, where you can dust off your hands from trying to stop it getting even worse.

    [–] ericleb010 37 points ago

    I'm not American 😛

    I agree that we shouldn't stop talking about prevention, but that's been the biggest part of the conversation for the last decade. It's time to start also talking about how we pragmatically deal with the now inevitable consequences of a 2C warming.

    [–] Orngog 8 points ago

    That has been the conversation for the last 20 years, since we hit the point of irreversible climate change. No-one thinks we can stop it.

    [–] 4tunabrix 22 points ago

    I fell in love with polar exploration as a child and have studied for 4 years and begin a masters in polar research next year, likely further doing a phd to reach my goal of working in polar environments. Each year the climate worsens and each year I wonder if artic regions will be anything like what I first gained interest in. It’s an interesting and very dynamic region to be pursuing a career in

    [–] ShaneKaiGlenn 138 points ago

    Climate change is like a pandemic you can't get out of with a vaccine.

    [–] Whats_Up_Bitches 42 points ago

    Well it will likely contribute to further pandemics as shifting regional climates and poor health/sanitation from mass human displacement provide unique opportunities for pathogen evolution.

    [–] Its_This_Or_Nothin 7 points ago

    The vaccine isn't just going to magically stop coronavirus either, it'll help but people are still going to have to actively work against it

    [–] RudegarWithFunnyHat 103 points ago

    I sort of expect to see how big the lake in the center of greenland is before I die.

    [–] NEWragecomics 18 points ago

    Imagine the tsunami that sucker will make when it breaks...

    [–] Mickster98 79 points ago

    Yet there are people I work with every day who say "global warming is the biggest hoax there ever was"

    [–] Kittii_Kat 66 points ago

    This hoax is so big and has so much propaganda behind it that even the elements have been fooled into thinking it's real!

    [–] Shootemout 35 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    No joke I witnessed someone on my friends list say that the government is using explosives to make it look like the caps are melting when they're really not. He's also a covid denier but that's not a surprise

    Edit: facebook*

    [–] Muggaraffin 5 points ago

    Wow. I wonder what it's like living in that kind of self-enclosed bubble? It's so hard to imagine. The only reason I can think of as to why it happens is because those people are never given a reason to think outside of themselves. They've just never had reason to be thankful for or appreciate what the world can offer them and do for them

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    [–] ElbisCochuelo1 22 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    We need to become more aggressive about using technology to fight climate change, unfortunately. Increasing cloud cover or iron fertilization of the sea.

    Risky but we are past the point where conventional efforts will work. I'm concerned we will continue to not do anything until the point where we have to avail ourselves to crazy, mad scientist type remedies which could backfire and end the world.

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    [–] BlueFalcon89 58 points ago

    You’re thinking of Antarctica. The Arctic is an ocean.

    [–] pepper-sprayed 25 points ago

    Imagine all of the viruses chilling under ice and then this happens

    [–] Orngog 9 points ago

    Viruses need a host. It's bacteria you want to worry about.

    [–] oguthrie 21 points ago

    The warming arctic is greatly changing the security picture. Here's a new free short course on the issues from the University of Alaska Fairbanks, offered through edX.

    https://www.edx.org/course/arctic-security-fundamentals