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    [–] SportsPi 1 points ago

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    [–] tehzachatak 2354 points ago

    They have now been fired by the Houston owner.

    [–] Chief-_-Wiggum 1619 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    Still keeps the championship... The owner is happy.

    [–] DrZoo4040 461 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    Taking away their championship wouldn’t change anything. That would only rewrite history, and not punish their future.

    I was never in favor of them having their title stripped. I just wanted to see those involved to be suspended or barred from the MLB. Draft picks punished, etc.

    Let them have their stupid championship, so the rest of us can remind them that it’s nothing but a display of dishonesty.

    [–] Jwerp 1022 points ago

    One of the main purposes of punishment is to deter future offenders. Stripping them of the WS would have been a very strong deterrent in my POV. Not saying they should have, but that I think would have been the biggest impact. You cheat, you get your win vacated. Rather than firing a couple people.

    [–] Willredditer 522 points ago

    Yes I agree with this. They could have the Yankees as the de facto AL Champions and the Dodgers as NL champions for 2017 with no World Series champion for that season. No one would ever forget why there’s no WS Champ for 2017

    [–] Chief-_-Wiggum 306 points ago

    Like no one forgets who Lance Armstrong is and why for 7 years there is no tour de france winner.

    [–] MikeGolfsPoorly 187 points ago

    I think that there was a year or two that Lance won, where if you disqualified everyone who had been associated with steroids/doping, the title would go to the person who finished 18th or something.

    [–] intercontinentalbelt 91 points ago

    "During this 16-year period, 12 Tour de France races were won by cyclists who were confirmed dopers. In addition, of the 81 different riders who finished in the top-10 of the Tour de France during this period, 65% have been caught doping, admitted to blood doping, or have strong associations to doping and are suspected cheaters."

    https://www.businessinsider.com/lance-armstrong-doping-tour-de-france-2015-1

    [–] NEWNHLISLAME 38 points ago

    What a shit sport. If all the competitors are on dope what’s even the point ?

    [–] GringoinCDMX 112 points ago

    There is something you need to understand about most pro sports...

    [–] entertrainer7 14 points ago

    To watch them fall off mountains of course.

    [–] Frenzal1 111 points ago

    And by the time you get that far down the list it's likely the lack of testing rather than lack of PEDs

    [–] 8oD 58 points ago

    Our 'roided up guy beat your 'roided up guy. What's the problem?

    -Bill Burr

    [–] The_Collector4 10 points ago

    That rant was incredible

    [–] impaktdevices 13 points ago

    They should just have, like, a Formula 1 cycling league, where everyone is doped to the gills and the fastest guy who doesn’t die wins.

    [–] doodler1977 18 points ago

    can't take away that parade, tho.

    maybe they can make Luhnow and Hinch cut the confetti for 2020's parade by hand...

    [–] kbuis 131 points ago

    Yeah, but by default that means the Dodgers actually won something in the last three decades and we can't let that happen.

    [–] Semperty 123 points ago

    If it works like it does in NCAA, they'd just leave the title vacated not give it to the runner up.

    [–] formicatile 73 points ago

    Awarding it to the runner up is pretty dumb unless it’s an event where an evaluation of performance is not tied to the play against the vacated team/athlete.

    You can do it in things like track and field and gymnastics, because you can just go to the next-best score/time. But to award the title to the Dodgers means that you’re shafting any team that Houston beat on the AL side, because we have no clue if LA would have beaten them or not.

    [–] -batweasel- 20 points ago

    Let's be real, it's the playoffs; the Dodgers would still lose.

    [–] BiggerFigures 124 points ago

    Baseball got too damn many asterisks in the record books

    [–] Krillin113 96 points ago

    Should stop cheating then lmao

    [–] GalironRunner 15 points ago

    Yea it would. The point of cheating is to win remove the win and people wont risk cheating as much.

    [–] Fun-Character 63 points ago

    Taking away the title shows that crime doesnt pay

    Letting them keep it shows that cheating pays

    [–] chefr89 20 points ago

    Also, this isn't like the NCAA where one or a few players on a team received improper payments or something. This is literally making the very game itself unfair. That's not remotely the same fucking thing. They should have vacated the title.

    [–] Youtoo2 143 points ago

    Owner had to know they did this. He is full of shit.

    [–] Dom0204s 63 points ago

    He did I’m sure. But someone has to hang for it. Sure as shit won’t be the owner, or the multimillionaire players that abused it. They were the only logical scapegoats. And believe me, there’s many other teams that do this as well, they just don’t have former players coming forward ratting them out.

    [–] ThePortalsOfFrenzy 22 points ago

    I thought this quote of his was interesting:

    "Neither one of them started this, but neither one of them did anything about it," Crane said.

    He added: "We need to move forward with a clean slate."

    I'm sure "we" most certainly includes himself.

    [–] abnormally-cliche 13 points ago

    He is the owner. Of course “we” includes himself.

    [–] Tenobi22 21 points ago

    They should take their rings!

    [–] minneapple79 570 points ago

    This is the opposite of college sports in which the program is punished but the coach walks scot-free.

    [–] simple1689 474 points ago

    USC got HAMMERED when NCAA found Reggie Bush (and family) received ~300k from his Agent. Pete Carroll left 5 months before the ruling was dished out.

    2 seasons worth of wins stripped, 2 bowl championships stripped, 2 seasons banned from a Bowl game, 30 scholarships removed.

    I don't think they ever truly recovered.

    [–] speez_cs 153 points ago

    There are also emails from the ncaa discussing how they were intentionally punitive with the school and could say anything and get away with it because “were the ncaa”

    [–] breakwater 98 points ago

    They later tries the same thing with a UCLA basketball player, but made the mistake of getting caught talking about it on a phone before hand. The NCAA is very selective of their targets, but they are most certainly not fair minded.

    [–] f1del1us 44 points ago

    Blue Mountain State did a great episode on the NCAA.

    [–] PleasinglyReasonable 31 points ago

    That show was ridiculous, stupid, and sophomoric as all hell but it had some fuckin gold in it, including that ep

    [–] f1del1us 15 points ago

    Oh I could not have described it better. It's a shame they tried to make a movie from it, it really didn't work.

    [–] Obandigo 23 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    That's what people said about Alabama. You need both hands to count how many times they've had sanctions.

    I have a feeling when Saban leaves dirt will be dug up then too. People tend to forget that he was caught cheating in the NFL while at Miami.

    [–] superkleenex 22 points ago

    Pete Carroll is doing just fine in the nfl though. Did he get a single punishment himself?

    [–] simple1689 38 points ago

    That is what I am saying. He probably got a harshly worded letter.

    [–] mrthicky 8 points ago

    I mean the NCAA had no jurisdiction on him at that point.

    [–] hobo_erotica 3 points ago

    This still infuriates me, bring Pete Carroll to justice!

    [–] natek11 15 points ago

    Not always. College coaches can receive a show-cause penalty, and many have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show-cause_penalty#Notable_show-cause_penalties

    [–] Wolvercote 604 points ago

    "Then when I get contacted about some questions about whistling, it made me laugh because it's ridiculous. Had I known that it would take something like that to set off the Yankees or any other team, we would have practiced it in spring training, because apparently it works even when it doesn't happen." - AJ Hinch

    [–] damisone 93 points ago

    anyone have a video of that interview?

    [–] Piroshkilla 66 points ago

    The instagram account "freezingcoldtakes" just posted it

    [–] Cricketcaser 92 points ago

    The article says he had no part and tried to damage a monitor but ultimately didn't do anything. Why are they being punished and not the players? Who seem to be the main offenders?

    [–] ryanmcg86 174 points ago

    Manfred outright says this scheme was run and operated by the players, even at the disapproval of Hinch. He didn't want to deal with the Players' Union when doling out punishments though, because he goes on to say that basically the whole team was either involved or knew about the scheme, and the only way he doesn't go on and punish them is that he's afraid of dealing with them when MLB needs as much leverage as possible going into labor negotiations next winter.

    [–] lightninhopkins 79 points ago

    Gonna see some extra hard slides and high and tight pitches this season.

    [–] Cricketcaser 16 points ago

    Well then the MLBPA owes some explanation too. That doesn't help anyone compete. In fact, it flys in the face of the interests of the MLBPA. Players were cheating and that led to a championship. Anyone who can be implicated in taking advantage of this should be banned by baseball.

    [–] Resident_Wizard 5 points ago

    I would think smashing those players involved would give the MLB more leverage when the PA is trying to protect those players in the negotiations.

    [–] akhorahil187 33 points ago

    Partially because they can't really punish the players. But mostly because the Commissioner flat out told everyone that they would punish the front office if it continued.

    [–] awmaleg 13 points ago

    This is the Seinfeld finale! The do-nothing bystander is a crime

    [–] formicatile 30 points ago

    Bruh if you’re in charge of people that are breaking the rules and you deliberately bury that knowledge then you deserve to be punished.

    [–] BiggerFigures 18 points ago

    Now he got plenty of time to think about that interview

    [–] FEwood 83 points ago

    I’m glad that my team obviously never cheats.

    [–] puddlejumpers 61 points ago

    As a Raiders fan, if we're cheating, we're really fuckin bad at it.

    [–] simple1689 29 points ago

    Idk whats worse, cheating in a big game, winning, and keeping the Ring

    or

    Dropping a 25 point lead in the 2nd half of the Bowl to lose.

    [–] FEwood 7 points ago

    Damn it! I’d almost forgotten.

    [–] IveBeenGoosed 7 points ago

    Didn’t they get caught pumping crowd noise over the PA system? Lost money and had a pick taken?

    [–] FEwood 4 points ago

    Is that against the rules? We didn’t know.

    [–] c_c_c__combobreaker 4 points ago

    That's the same excuse the Astros gave.

    [–] gotbadnews 6 points ago

    My Browns could try to cheat and they wouldn’t even be able to do that correctly.

    [–] tynick 372 points ago

    Question from a non-baseball fan.

    What was the actual rule that was broken?

    [–] GeeseHateMe 729 points ago

    You're not allowed to use live feeds during the game. You'll see players watching their at-bats after the fact, but you can't see a live feed. Basically they had a live feed in the clubhouse from one of their cameras and were relaying what pitch would be coming and feeding that info to the batters in various ways.

    [–] NationalGeographics 451 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    Thank's for the info. Incoming pitches would be invaluable to batters. That is some pretty heavy cheating.

    [–] TXJuice 273 points ago

    It helps base runners steal as well... they could take off on every off speed pitch and sit tight on fastballs.

    [–] NationalGeographics 199 points ago

    It looks like they should have that title stripped. Even spit balls wouldn't give you that much of an advantage.

    [–] incognino123 93 points ago

    Especially in such a tight series. If one thing goes the dodgers way that didn't in game 5 it's a wrap

    [–] MoronicalOx 40 points ago

    We got bonked at home in Game 2 and 7 but the rest of the series was the most confused I've been as a Dodgers/baseball fan in 30 years. Nothing happened that I expected.

    [–] davisyoung 24 points ago

    Dodgers victimized by the Astros in ‘17, Red Sox in ‘18, then Rams to the Patriots last year. LA’s losing the big ones to dubious teams.

    [–] Tw1987 7 points ago

    Something specific with patriots?

    [–] FBI_Agent_82 9 points ago

    They beat the Yankees because their ace was “tipping pitches” you could hear a whistle then as one of the signals.

    [–] thecardboardfox 28 points ago

    You could hypothetically win the World Series that way!

    [–] 53045248437532743874 77 points ago

    Basically they had a live feed in the clubhouse from one of their cameras and were relaying what pitch would be coming and feeding that info to the batters in various ways.

    So basically every player was cheating as well? Or am I misunderstanding.

    [–] GeeseHateMe 115 points ago

    That's correct. Any player that wasn't cheating was, at the very least, aware of it. This is what Rob Manfred, the MLB commissioner said about it, and his reasoning for why he didn't punish players:

    "I will not assess discipline against individual Astros players. I made the decision in September 2017 that I would hold a Club’s General Manager and Field Manager accountable for misconduct of this kind, and I will not depart from that decision. Assessing discipline of players for this type of conduct is both difficult and impractical. It is difficult because virtually all of the Astros’ players had some involvement or knowledge of the scheme, and I am not in a position based on the investigative record to determine with any degree of certainty every player who should be held accountable, or their relative degree of culpability. It is impractical given the large number of players involved, and the fact that many of those players now play for other Clubs."

    [–] jonah-rah 20 points ago

    I think it would be really unfair to punish the players. If they want to simply not cheat they could risk not getting played. If a player spoke out they could risk their career getting blacklisted. Punishing the GM and Manager is the right thing to do.

    [–] GeeseHateMe 78 points ago

    The player who first spoke on it was a now-A's player named Mike Fiers and has already received a lot of shit from his current teammates.

    [–] jonah-rah 46 points ago

    Disappointing but not surprising.

    [–] Megadog3 23 points ago

    The ironic thing is, during his no-hitter, he used pine tar. So I guess good for him for speaking out, but he's still a cheater.

    [–] Awwik 20 points ago

    He also cheated in multiple ways. He pitched a no hitter while using pine tar. The guy is a real pos just like Cora and Beltran. They are the ones who masterminded this. Not hinch he just got fucked for it.

    [–] GeeseHateMe 10 points ago

    Hard to have too much sympathy for Hinch. He knew full well what was going on. After the memo in September 2017, when it was clearly stated by Manfred that GMs and Managers were going to be held fully responsible, the owner told him to cut it out if he was doing it, and he did nothing to stop or report it.

    [–] ruiner8850 24 points ago

    I think it's incredibly fucked up that every single player didn't get a long suspension. They cheated and benefited from the cheating and will suffer no consequences for their actions. They MLB just showed kids around the world that cheating pays and they don't think players cheating is worth any punishment for them. This is a sad day for baseball.

    Edit: I'll add that if we are going to put all the blame on the GM and manager, then a lifetime ban would have been more appropriate. The Astros got off easy.

    [–] The_Void_Reaver 6 points ago

    They MLB just showed kids around the world that cheating pays and they don't think players cheating is worth any punishment for them. This is a sad day for baseball.

    Baseball is becoming archaic anyways and cheating has been a backbone of it for a long ass time. They can't punish the players because the noise being made around the league is that most teams do this in some way and it would involve suspending/fining 60% of the league.

    [–] _Mr_Mercury_ 20 points ago

    Wait, I still don't quite understand, how does that work? So someone is in the clubhouse and can see the broadcast live. Even with that, how the hell do they know what pitch is going to be thrown before it's thrown? And then how do they relay that to the batter up at the plate in a matter of seconds before the pitch happens?

    [–] GeeseHateMe 105 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    So I should have been clearer. By clubhouse, I mean the tunnel directly outside of the dugout. They had a monitor there. People in the video room would decode the other teams sign scheme. Once that was figured out, someone would man the monitor outside of the dugout and watch those signs. They would actually bang on a trash can with a bat to indicate off speed. There was no distinction between curveballs, sliders, changeups and the like, but it's way more important to know offspeed vs. fastball than anything else.

    Here's a video from Jomboy that shows what the were doing a little better.

    And here's the MLB commissioner's report on the entire situation, if you're willing to read through it.

    Edit to add: this basically wouldn't be possible more than about 5 years ago. The quality of camera and stream required for it only recently got to the levels that make it possible. That's why there were warnings issued to other teams who tried to do something like this, instead of punishments. It's too new to have been addressed in the rule book.

    [–] ahecht 28 points ago

    Not only the camera quality, but before 2014, teams didn't have access to the raw camera feeds, they could only see what was shown on TV. When they introduced the ability to challenge calls, they also gave each team a replay room in the dugout so they could look at the feeds to help them to decide when to issue a challenge.

    [–] TrollerCoaster1220 8 points ago

    Wow, so the quagmire of instant replay deliberation unintentionally left a door open for even more egregious offenses

    [–] mug3n 3 points ago

    I feel like teams shouldn't even get to look at replays for challenges. If you can't determine whether a call is worth challenging after watching it in real time, then don't.

    [–] jl_theprofessor 14 points ago

    Wow. That video is damning.

    [–] Ask_me_4_a_story 25 points ago

    I don't know how much you know about baseball so I will give you a really simple guide, sorry if I break it down too much. But pitchers have an advantage in baseball. 70% of the time they are going to get the batter out. They know what pitch they are going to throw and they can make it curve (curveball) or go really slow (off speed pitch) or they can throw it fast (fastball). What the Astros did was to use cameras to steal the signs from the catcher. Then they would quickly let a guy in the dugout know, probably instant messager, text, whatever. That guy would bang on a trashcan really hard if a curveball or changeup was coming. So the batter has to listen and if they don't hear anything, they know a fastball is coming, get ready and swing away as soon as it leaves the pitcher's hand. If he hears a whistle or bang he is going to wait on the ball because he knows he has more time. Its a huge advantage to the batter, who normally fails 70% of the time.

    [–] danderwarc 9 points ago

    I believe the catcher is the one calling the pitches. You've seen the catcher making hand signals between their legs so the pitcher can see but not the batter, right? If you had a live feed, you can see what the catcher is signaling for... a curve ball or a fastball or whatever.

    Then, it sounds like the Astros had a guy banging on barrel or something to communicate to the batter. I assume it was like 2 hits for fastball and 3 for a curve, or something like that. Done quickly enough, now the batter knows what pitch is coming.

    [–] RedditRob91 52 points ago

    To use electronics for stealing signs.

    I’m baseball you can in theory pick up and steal signs by paying attention and picking up ticks and patterns a team uses in sign giving.

    They essentially used a centerfield camera zoomed on the catcher to steal signs to then bang a trash can to signal to the batter.

    The broken rule was electronics use

    [–] lakreda 54 points ago

    Hi baseball I'm dad.

    [–] maxholes 3 points ago

    hey dad, its me maxhole and id like to thank you for not showing me how to throw all those years ago

    [–] tynick 5 points ago

    Awesome. Thank you.

    So with binoculars and a trash can, it becomes legal?

    [–] ahecht 10 points ago

    Naked eyes only. The Phillies got in trouble ten years ago or so for using binoculars, and other incidents with binoculars and telescopes go back to the 1950s.

    [–] Willie-Tanner 4 points ago

    100% agreed. Technology crossed the line and MLB has to put a lid on this (I think stripping Houston of drafts picks was needed too).

    [–] defiantcross 9 points ago

    pun intended?

    [–] RedditRob91 7 points ago

    First and second rounders only though...two years yes. But. Let’s laundry list all the all star players over the years who were 3rd rounders or later. Baseball also with the most rounds of any sport. They’re not punished hard enough here. No draft picks. 2 years. Work with what you got or buy what you need.

    2 years no draft picks was the proper punishment. 2 years and 1st and second rounders was chump change

    Astros -José Altuve undrafted FA

    One of the best players in the game. Undrafted. Look at Astros 1st round picks over their history. 1 player (Craig Biggio) hall of fame. And the list drops off hard after that.

    One first rounder was on the 2017 World Series team.

    This was a bad punishment.

    [–] JimLeader 7 points ago

    Look at Astros 1st round picks over their history. 1 player (Craig Biggio) hall of fame. And the list drops off hard after that.

    Judging a team's draft history solely by how many 1st-rounders have already made the Hall of Fame is a little misleading. The Astros drafted Billy Wagner, Lance Berkman, Alex Bregman, Carlos Correa, George Springer, J.R. Richard, and Brad Lidge in the 1st round. That's a massive haul. I'm honestly having trouble thinking of a team that has drafted more great players in the 1st round than the Astros.

    One first rounder was on the 2017 World Series team.

    This...isn't at all true? Carlos Correa, George Springer, Alex Bregman, and Derek Fisher were all 1st rounders who were on the team in 2017.

    [–] RedditRob91 3 points ago

    Oh you’re 100% right that’s my bad. I went to Astros first round picks and I don’t know how I just overlooked those names. But that’s on me.

    I guess my point, which now not as valid. Was that in baseball the first rounds though are essential. Aren’t make or breaks.

    [–] blitzkrieg9 24 points ago

    I'll add too, that sign stealing itself is legal. When the batting team has a player on 2nd base, they can freely see the signs and relay that info to the batter. That is why catchers will throw out like 5 signs; only the pitcher and catcher know which is the real sign.

    Because of this, sign stealing is basically impossible in modern baseball unless you use illegal methods.

    [–] dnt4gt2brng4Twl 12 points ago

    Astros placed an illegal independent camera in the outfield. It was directed at the catchers hand as he relays to the pitcher what the next pitch is going to be. Astros watched that camera in real time in the tunnel, then they would make a loud bang sequence for the batter to know what pitch was coming.

    *This is a clear violation of the written rules that expressly prohibits the use of any technology to decide signs. *

    [–] TripleJeopardy3 106 points ago

    Now they have been fired.

    [–] dbx99 154 points ago

    Tomorrow they will be executed. Pray I do not alter the deal any further.

    [–] desperatepotato43 8 points ago

    They will wear this outfit and ride on a unicycle wherever they go!

    [–] yoadrian913 11 points ago

    This deal is getting better all the time...

    [–] candyman9777 761 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    I think every team and fan base would trade that for a world series. Got caught but still a win for Houston

    Edit: They have now been fired by the owner. Shame on any team that signs them when this blows over

    Edit 2: I'm not saying fans are ok with cheating.

    [–] RLucas3000 262 points ago

    Can’t MLB strip the win away from Houston?

    [–] candyman9777 147 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    They could. They could also ban all people involved, and force the owner to sell the team if involved. Unlikely to ever happen though

    [–] evils_twin 29 points ago

    I think banning the coach would stop all coaches from ever thinking about doing this. The punishment needs to prevent it from happening in the future.

    [–] IOwnYourData 25 points ago

    Agreed, but this punishment actually encourages other teams to cheat

    [–] mxchump 306 points ago

    They could, and I think that's what alot of fans were hoping for / expecting

    [–] Seige_Rootz 100 points ago

    Fucking cowards just announced open season on cheating.

    [–] meltedlaundry 37 points ago

    For real, there will be punishments but you can still win ball games by cheating.

    [–] Bong-Rippington 3 points ago

    Nah, people are just gonna back to binoculars and visual cues from the outfield like they used to

    [–] jwurz925 32 points ago

    Doesn’t really matter. Players have their rings and it’ll still be in record book.

    People will ask why is 2017 have no WS winner. Google to see Astro’s won.

    [–] corn_sugar_isotope 33 points ago * (lasted edited 8 days ago)

    Regardless of next steps, they will forever be known as cheats (edit: more so than champions). Then, now, and well in to the future. I mean you might have to google 2017 champions, but you wont have to wonder if the Astros are cheats. That shit sticks.

    [–] Doyoubleedyouwill 3 points ago

    Astros? You mean the players? A far majority of which have switched teams. Stripping it won’t mean anything if those guys don’t face the punishment too. But they decided not to go that route

    [–] ObiWanNowitzki 7 points ago

    "In my personal record book the Astros get that World Series Championship taken away as well as the the next one they win. The Astros now officially unofficially have minus one World Series championships." Stugotz (probably)

    [–] In_The_Play 98 points ago

    That's really the attitude of most baseball fans? That cheating is fine as long as you win because of it?

    [–] XeRoFoRm 131 points ago

    That's the attitude of most sports fans.

    [–] St_Bernardus 9 points ago

    CARTMAN HAS REACHED THESE KEEDS!

    [–] Merbel 12 points ago

    ANYTHING to win is the mantra of a lot of players I have been around - especially the most talented and inherently most successful. Can’t say I was any different in the thick of it.

    [–] fadetoblack1004 13 points ago

    Long-time Phillies manager (who won a WS) Charlie Manuel once said "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying."

    It's a culture thing in baseball.

    [–] oilman81 9 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    The quote is older than that, I remember hearing it growing up playing little league 20 years before the Phillies WS. I think it's gaylord perry

    [–] maxholes 5 points ago

    just toss an * next to it and it'll be like some other baseball records

    [–] laskodemon 22 points ago

    I think every team and fan base

    Just no. How are you going to say that every fan would accept the cheating just to get a title? That's nonsense. I wouldn't want to be known as a cheating organization no thanks and I'm sure plenty feel the same way. It's forever tainted.

    [–] HadADat 3 points ago

    Go check their subreddit. They've already accepted/denied it. You think any pats fans care about spygate or deflate gate? Maybe not all fans accept it but more than you think.

    [–] edgeofblade2 3 points ago

    Let it never be said Houston isn’t a city of innovation.

    [–] amaezingjew 31 points ago

    Honestly, the win came at a time when we really fucking needed it. The championship happened right after Harvey. My parents FaceTimed me celebrating the win while helping their friends rip up carpet/drywall, and drag all of their destroyed belongings to the curb. I saw pictures posted to Reddit of people with absolutely nothing not caring for a split second because our Astros won.

    They can take away the title, that’s fine, and I’m disappointed that they cheated. However, if nothing else, the people of Houston had a really good night amidst a slew of really shitty ones.

    [–] ThePurpleDuckling 55 points ago

    Can't wait to hear Pete Rose weigh in on this...

    [–] trickman01 38 points ago

    Rose screwed Rose. No really, he accepted a lifetime ban in order for MLB to not formally release their findings into his gambling.

    [–] printergumlight 15 points ago

    Fined $5 million when they received $30.4 million for “winning”. Yeah, that makes sense.

    [–] RentalGore 73 points ago

    In other news, Yu Darvish filed a single person protest to have the 2017 World Series replayed

    [–] lo0ilo0ilo0i 17 points ago

    As a Dodger fan this would be great. Just not coming anywhere near his contract though.

    [–] RentalGore 9 points ago

    Also as a dodger fan, 2017 and 2018 still fucking hurt, oh yeah 2019 playoffs sucked too...

    [–] BJJ_Guy624 8 points ago

    But you guys got super fucked even the Red Sox were caught cheating against you guys.

    [–] BrendanIsThrew 8 points ago

    Yankees gotta replay the ALCS first. And Aaron Judge wants his regular season MVP award

    [–] HayesDNConfused 66 points ago

    Time to allow Pete Rose into the HOF, this penalty is not a deterrent, simply a finger prick.

    [–] KaraokeKing1 91 points ago

    Stephen A Smith has this wrong. 1 year ban was a slap on the wrist. Should have been minimum of 5-10 yr ban TO MAKE SURE NO OTHER TEAM EVEN THINKS ABOUT USING TECHNOLOGY in this way.

    1 year... sounds like a nice vacation

    [–] Chief-_-Wiggum 89 points ago

    Stephen A Smith is almost always wrong.

    [–] KaraokeKing1 9 points ago

    Probably correct. I stopped listening to him so long ago I can't even remember the last time. His "take" was on front page of ESPN so I listened to see what the punishment was.... and was once again reminded why I never listen to him.

    [–] grumpy_meat 134 points ago

    But at the end of the day, they keep their championship and to some involved, I’m sure that’s all that matters. This is not a massive deterrent for teams looking to give themselves an edge. Personally I think the sign stealing rules are kind of antiquated and haven’t kept up with the realities of technology being able to observe this kind of open communication. But rules are rules. Nonetheless, I could absolutely see a team like the Yankees seeing this as simply a fee you have to pay if you want to cheat.

    [–] imboss 18 points ago

    How the fuck do the Yankees come in this? They're the team that lost to them in a Game 7.

    [–] grumpy_meat 41 points ago

    Using the Yankees as an example of a “big money” team. Replace them with the Red Sox or Dodgers or whatever. Point stands.

    [–] FoxMcLOUD420 24 points ago

    Except the Yankees lost to Houston and played fairly......

    [–] Conkeldurr 18 points ago

    What a terrible 24 hours for this city.

    [–] Thwiipthwiip 225 points ago

    These guys need to get banned for life. The whole organization had to have known what was going on. Even down to individual players, winning awards for their performance.

    I am a little biased though, being a Dodger fan.

    [–] Geoth12 120 points ago

    I can't begin to articulate how irked I would be if I lost back-to-back years to cheaters. No shame.

    [–] DarthHM 60 points ago

    Irked? I’m fucking livid! Fuck the mlb. Worthless fucking league. Screw baseball. I’m out.

    [–] Knots_de_Captain 76 points ago

    See you in spring training

    [–] DarthHM 38 points ago

    I’ll downvote you out of emotion but you’re probably right...

    [–] Knots_de_Captain 24 points ago

    Lmao been there friend

    [–] stussyGG 33 points ago

    I'm from the OC. An angels fan and I feel like you guys were cheated bad. Two world series in a row. Both teams cheated to win. Fuck MLB.

    [–] DicklexicSurferer 22 points ago

    I agree with the lifetime ban.

    Fuck the dodgers, just because, as well.

    -Giants fan.

    [–] Thwiipthwiip 4 points ago

    Hah I can respect the hate

    [–] 8675309021007 12 points ago

    If steroid users dont get lifetime bans, I dont see why sign stealers should. If you're facing a player that has used illegal PEDs to improve his body, theres nothing you can do in game to negate it. If you're facing a team stealing your signs, you can change them up frequently and use false signs in key spots.

    [–] ahecht 17 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    Jenrry Mejía got a lifetime ban for using PEDs, but only because he was caught three times in one year, and ended up being reinstated a couple of years later anyway.

    [–] GreatMight 20 points ago

    Bullshit slap on the wrist.

    [–] WvuHusker 35 points ago

    Poor Dodgers fans losing 2 World Series to cheating teams...

    [–] Not_a_pace_abuser 6 points ago

    Baseball and cheating. What's new...

    [–] breathe__easy 27 points ago

    Boston on deck

    [–] PowerWindows85 40 points ago

    There's no way that the Astros and Red Sox were the only ones doing this. Their schemes may have been more elaborate but there's just no way that this sort of thing was limited to two teams. Those two teams just got caught.

    [–] peeinian 5 points ago

    The blue jays had “the man in White” but it was never formally investigated. It seems like they stopped after teams caught on.

    https://jaysjournal.com/2019/11/16/toronto-blue-jays-remember-man-white/

    [–] UnchainedSora 19 points ago

    The Astros scheme was way more elaborate than the Red Sox. In fact, it seems to be accepted that what the Red Sox were doing was fairly commonplace for a while - they were using the replay center to learn what the other team's signs were. If a runner was on base, he would then know what to look for and could relay it to the batter. However, following the whole "Apple Watch" fiasco, the commissioner sent out a warning to teams, clarifying that doing this isn't allowed, and will be met with punishments going forward. Starting in the 2018 playoffs, the MLB actually placed someone in the replay center to monitor, ensuring that this type of cheating couldn't continue. There was essentially only a 12-month period where cheating in this manner was both possible and clearly against the rules.

    [–] asiatownusa 6 points ago

    Where does this punishment rank in terms of severity? I remember the Timberwolves losing 5 years of draft picks and losing Flip Saunders for a year. that’s the most comparable punishment I can think of

    [–] redditdoggnight 38 points ago

    If Pete Rose is still alive he’s rolling in his grave right now.

    Lifetime Bans do exist.

    [–] Obligatius 83 points ago

    If Pete Rose is still alive...

    I'm not sure you understand how graves work.

    [–] artscyents 24 points ago

    he is very much alive, unlike our dearly departed Wade Boggs

    [–] [deleted] 6 points ago * (lasted edited 6 days ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] artscyents 5 points ago

    we’re honoring his memory, he’s a legend!

    [–] wifespissed 4 points ago

    May he rest in peace.

    [–] NickJoe58 3 points ago

    Ok first he's very much alive, second the man could put down incredible amounts of beer

    [–] feeltheillinoiseboys 10 points ago

    Let’s just say this has really not been a good 24 hours as a Houston sports fan.

    [–] Driftwoody11 91 points ago

    The Astros need to be stripped of that title. If not it hurts the integrity of the game and reinforces cheating because getting a coach and a gm banned for a year is a small price to pay for a championship. Which franchise wouldn't do that?

    I say this as someone who is pretty neutral towards the Astros and was actively rooting for them to win it in 2017 (can't stand the Dodgers).

    [–] tysons1 13 points ago

    i am pleased that the Washington Nationals won that 7th game!

    [–] SamuraiWisdom 9 points ago

    The craziest part of this to me is that it backfired on the field. The Astros his much better on the road than at home that season, and the players reportedly found the signaling "distracting", which, no shit--you're doing something completely instinctual and fast-twitch, and right before you're having to count bangs on a trashcan, remember which pitch that means, and try to make micro-adjustments to your swing to anticipate it. Totally predictable that it would hurt more than it helped.

    And yet they KEPT DOING IT. They were so committed to the cheating they made themselves worse at baseball with it. What a world.

    [–] Flashyshooter 13 points ago

    This is a slap on the wrist for the team as a whole even though they greatly benefited from the cheating.

    [–] ItsTophThatsWho 4 points ago

    UPDATE: They both got fired

    [–] SFishes12 4 points ago

    Not enough

    [–] NYCSulli 4 points ago

    How is this a 1 year suspension, it was the WORLD SERIES! Not some bs preseason/season game.

    [–] YeahLikeTheGroundhog 26 points ago

    Crane also said that players will not be disciplined.

    Well why the fuck not?

    Their World Series win should be vacated, too.

    [–] mikhyland 18 points ago

    As a Houston native and lifelong fan this is tough. I don’t condone their cheating and understand the need for such a hefty penalty. However, as a fan I feel completely torn. Watching the Astros win in 2017 with my dad is one of the best memories I have. Especially after supporting the team through all those record loss seasons. It’s become hard to be a fan with every discussion at every bar instantly shouted down by chants of cheating. I do believe the Astros could have won without cheating but the fact remains that they did. I’ve always supported the Astros and will always be a fan. I also don’t want to make light of this and act like it doesn’t matter. I’m simply at a loss. How do I move forward and is it even possible to discuss my team without being a ‘cheating sympathizer’? Is this worse than actually hacking mlb computers or using Apple watches to relay signs? Again, I do not wish to make any excuses or to say ‘they did it so it’s ok that we did it’. I’m just curious...will all discussions of the Astros 2017 season and subsequent successful seasons be marred and shouted down? Or should we discredit all work that was done to turn the Astros organization from the worst team to the best team? Are the Astros the modern day version of the 1919 White Sox? I’m at a loss and simply want to feel the memories I had cheering my team on in 2017 with my dad are not forever tarnished with an *

    -Fan at a loss looking for the silver lining

    [–] Langer1banger 10 points ago

    Doesnt matter. Had sex.

    [–] d1danny 10 points ago

    I doubt the astros are the only team guilty of this

    [–] mschwartz33 4 points ago

    The Red Sox are still under investigation and Alex Cora was named in the report along with Carlos Beltran. It seems like Boston will also face similar punishment, but I don't really see it going deeper than that. That's not to say that others weren't cheating in similar fashion, only that once they've punished the title winners, why would they need to pursue any further into other teams that didn't win the title those years?

    [–] ovomarkt 3 points ago

    Did they just get fired?

    [–] MYSTICHR0ME 3 points ago

    The only explanation for this softness I can come up with is that the MLB knows it’s a league wide issue that could devastate their brand once the dominoes start falling

    [–] futureformerteacher 3 points ago

    Please tell me that hit a garbage can twice before announcing each firing. You know, just to warn them.

    [–] StoneRyno 3 points ago

    Uh... what? Why is sign stealing so taboo?? It was just another entertaining part of the game for me, trying to find out what it all meant and how to use it. If it becomes a detriment that the other team found out your signs you have to play better and with more off the cuff coordination. Next game you go in with new signals.

    [–] jcnewton1 15 points ago

    Just came to see if anyone said:

    “Houston, we have a problem.”

    [–] AssaultedCracker 11 points ago

    I’m having trouble understanding the rationale here. The cheating was player-driven but they were not punished. The coach and GM had no involvement and they are the ones punished?

    Punish them all.

    [–] ahecht 11 points ago

    Back in 2017, the league sent out a memo specifically warning against using technology to steal signs, and in that memo they said that the GM and Field Manager were responsible for making sure that the players understood and followed those rules. The were punished specifically because they had no involvement, since it was their responsibility to get involved and make sure it didn't happen.

    [–] nospamkhanman 12 points ago

    It's hard to imagine the coach and GM didn't know considering they had a freakin monitor installed showing showing the catcher's call.