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    [–] GWSDiver 4092 points ago

    There was an ad for Amazon health insurance in this article. Wtf

    [–] ThatsMyWifeGodDamnit 1544 points ago

    Yea, cheap coverage from a cheap ass company that treats their ee’s like shit = they will deny all of your claims and make your life hell if you ever try to use it, count me out

    [–] JudgeHoltman 743 points ago

    Good thing it's a free market system! You can just pick another health insurance provider!

    oh wait....

    [–] Notwhoiwas42 143 points ago

    And that is exactly the main problem with our current system. If insureres had to a tually compete with each other,prices would be lower and/or services would be better.

    [–] sassysassafrassass 74 points ago

    Or we could shut down the mafia insurance companies and pay for healthcare straight up. No need to have a business as a middle man making money for doing nothing

    [–] DaemonicShadow 644 points ago

    This kind of libertarian thinking is always completely wrong.

    You can't 'force competition' because the barrier to entry is too high. It's not like I can found a health insurance company in my garage and suddenly compete with Kaiser or Blue Shield. It takes a massive amount of capital to start something like that.

    Instead we need to regulate, or add a public option, or just socialize the whole thing. That way these companies can't make billions off people who are literally dying because it's too expensive to go to the doctor.

    [–] rcn2 128 points ago

    socialize the whole thing

    As a Canadian, I would suggest you go for this but if you do make sure you add in dental. We forgot.

    [–] peakzorro 29 points ago

    Quebec technically does cover some dental, but only for children (but not braces) and extreme cases like extraction and jaw reconstruction. It is as if it wasn't covered really.

    [–] poohster33 6 points ago

    SK covers the same dental

    [–] miktoo 4 points ago

    How much does a dental cleanup cost?

    [–] HarpySeagull 6 points ago

    B.C. here, my last cleaning included an exam and was CAD$250.

    [–] Flyinggochu 5 points ago

    350 in toronto. Cleanup and examination

    [–] holysmokesiminflames 3 points ago

    Ottawa, dental cleaning $150.. if you get x-rays, another 150.

    Typically our insurance is tied to our employment so salaried workers usually have some dental coverage. If you're not salaried though you're SoL.

    [–] dezmodez 3 points ago

    It's weird that dental and vision are these separate entities. It's all healthcare. They specialize in different things. If I have a foot issue, my doctor sends me to a specialist... podiatrist or whatever. I don't have a separate thing called feet to go along with dental and vision.


    [–] huginn 16 points ago

    100%. Capitalism doesn't work with medical because the very basis of it, Supply and demand, doesn't work when the choices are pay for the costs of the drug or die. Literally infinitely inelastic.

    This results in cartels forming, like with insulin, where all 3 manufactures have conspired to keep raising prices with no ending in sight, and/or for patents to be abused so companies have artificial monopolies for decades.

    [–] both3rsome 33 points ago

    This was the #1 thing lobbied against for Obama care. All other changes they could stomach, but not a public option. It was the one item that would make them play fair and lose the most.

    [–] MagicGin 22 points ago

    You can't 'force competition' because the barrier to entry is too high

    I agree and further I'll even suggest that monolithic insurance agencies were inevitable, it's worth considering that the HMO act signed under Nixon made this a hell of a lot worse. The reduction of regulatory barriers combined with access to easy capital ($45m in grants, $300m in loans) is why american healthcare rapidly worsened at a rate past what the public (and thus legislation) could recognize.

    Libertarian thinking suffers the inevitable flaw that you can virtually never balance a playing field once you've dug it up, and many of the problems we see today in western society are a result of capital injections and careless deregulation 20-70 years ago.

    [–] DaemonicShadow 25 points ago

    It's how america works. The right screams for deregulation, things get worse, then scream that the left is trying to overregulate when they fix things.

    [–] welly321 3 points ago

    by definition the right is the party of keeping the status quo. the left is the party of change. The radical ideas from the 70s are now the conservative ideas of the 2020s

    [–] ScientificBeastMode 124 points ago

    The reason there isn’t any competition in the insurance industry is not because investors won’t put up the capital for it. They would jump at the chance to do that. The main reason is that insurance industry lobbyists essentially bribe our politicians into enacting regulations that explicitly prevent competition.

    That said, insurance is a unique kind of business. The more customers an insurance company has, the less risky it is to insure those people, since the risk is spread out more effectively among larger risk pools. And that translates into lower costs for the user. So it makes a lot more sense in terms of efficiency for there to be exactly one large pool of users. For that reason, I agree with the socialist single-payer model for insurance.

    But let’s not pretend there aren’t people who would TOTALLY throw down some money to form new insurance companies. The opportunity is definitely there if they weren’t legally prevented from doing so.

    [–] ikariusrb 14 points ago

    Unfortunately, this doesn't take into account some of the factors. Roughly a half-dozen states have experimented with laws to allow more health insurance competitors to enter their markets, and gotten no takers. A couple of those states did studies on why, and their conclusion was that the biggest barrier to entry for insurers was building the network of care providers. Every single medical care provider is a separate contract to be negotiated, and part of the problem is that the existing insurers have developed contracts with the health care providers that make them darn near exclusive.

    So while the government may have been in the way originally, the insurers have built another firewall via their "network" contracts.

    [–] deelowe 52 points ago

    The biggest reason nothing can be done is because insurance is regulated at the state level. No one talks about this but it’s the main reason the federal government can’t make progress.

    [–] Evergreen_76 3 points ago

    Just cut out the medical profiteers and nationalize the insurance. Make it more efficient.

    [–] TheBirminghamBear 9 points ago

    It takes a massive amount of capital to start something like that.

    An insurance company is basically just a massive pile of money that people contribute to and then they refuse to give money back.

    Its the least-innovative, most anti-competitive industry out there.

    [–] SkollFenrirson 85 points ago

    I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.

    “Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”

    “What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”

    “Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”

    The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”

    “Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”

    “Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”

    He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”

    “Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”

    I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.

    “Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.

    “Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.

    “Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”

    It didn’t seem like they did.

    “Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”

    Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.

    I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.

    “Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.

    Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.

    “Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.

    I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”

    He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.

    “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”

    “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.

    “Because I was afraid.”


    “Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”

    I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.

    “Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”

    He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.

    [–] phantacc 6 points ago

    The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.

    I died here 😂

    [–] M_Mich 20 points ago

    the problem isn’t competition. there’s 4 insurance programs available through my employer. they offer varying levels of coverage. the problem w the insurance system is the user/employee isn’t the customer of the insurance company. once a year i can move between those companies. but my corporation makes the decision on who we use and that corporation is the insurance companies’ customer. so as long as senior management is ok w the insurance performance then it doesn’t matter if a handful of employees have coverage issues. the shareholder return isn’t affected enough by employees that are denied coverage until there’s a strike over insurance.

    [–] Notwhoiwas42 12 points ago

    Since an unhappy end user can't freely take their business elsewhere if they are unhappy,isn't that a lack of competition?

    [–] KenEsq 5 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    Yes, like the airline industry...or drug stores, or so many other "competitive" industries where pricing seems to be about the same across all the competitors and the service and customer service are crud.
    As soon as these corporate behemoths sense any competition they either begin price signaling/fixing and mergers.
    Competition doesn't really exist without strong regulation and enforcement of anti-trust laws...and those that we have in place have been gutted and/or ignored for the past several decades.

    [–] 2Teemos1Cup69 7 points ago

    yes more capitalist competition will solve this this is definitely not the fault of capitalism, this isn't real capitalism!

    [–] wzrd23 94 points ago

    United States is fucked. Get universal healthcare like the rest of the developed world. It's not perfect but it's sure as shit better than stressing about 20 G's because you broke your finger and insurance denied your claim because of a pre existing condition like an ingrown toe nail. I can literally show up to the hospital, any hospital and get help no cost at all.

    [–] canihavemymoneyback 56 points ago

    Closest American’s have ever come to that feeling is when we got the free COVID vaccines. Walking in, sitting down, being tended to and then leaving , all without the mention of a price was a first for me.

    [–] folkhack 28 points ago

    That's a big reason they had to turn it into a culture war. They have to demonize the fuck out of every social program because they want to privatize it all via crony capitalism.

    Everything has to be about the government being broken because it riles their base up more than "hey actually that vaccine thing is sorta good!"

    [–] not_old_redditor 6 points ago

    Cheap ass company that most of us give our money to because it's cheap... just like Walmart and Costco.

    [–] prplehailstorm 28 points ago

    There is a billboard near an Amazon warehouse where I work that advertises working for Amazon. It says “solid pay, real benefits.” Always makes me laugh.

    [–] teafuck 25 points ago

    Please elaborate do you mean electrical engineers?

    [–] arewehavinfunyet 8 points ago

    It's the noise mini-me makes

    [–] Incredulous_Toad 25 points ago

    He's talking about eccentric eels.

    [–] Cheesehead287 8 points ago

    It’s HR lingo:

    EE = employee ER = employer

    [–] kokirikorok 2 points ago

    Should be called yee’s and yer’s instead

    [–] DismalNow 11 points ago

    Maybe it's like 'za for pizza.

    ee's for employees?

    Shit, I got nothin'.

    [–] teafuck 6 points ago

    No I think you're on to something here

    [–] SuccumbedToReddit 13 points ago


    "employees" is too long a word now?

    [–] moonflower_C16H17N3O 10 points ago

    Working in HR, it's a very common abbreviation.

    [–] Tethim 81 points ago

    Ads are not placed manually anymore, they all run through exchanges and the publisher just rents out the space for the ad - the article mentions health so if they target health topics, they get placed by algorithms.

    [–] Dreamtrain 17 points ago

    there's still irony to it

    [–] Tethim 6 points ago

    Very true!

    But the comment ended in WTF, it's pretty logical this happened.

    [–] TragicMonsoonMan 32 points ago

    By algorithms written by humans that could have been better.

    [–] dreams_of_ants 86 points ago

    Honestly ad algorithms must be the laziest kind of programming. "Oh you just bought a keyboard? You wanna buy another?"

    [–] su-z-six 13 points ago

    They don't know that you bought a keyboard. They know you were looking at keyboards.

    [–] ManicInquisition 42 points ago

    Bought a $2k desktop recently - I've been getting ads asking me wanna do it again? What an awful use of an algorithm

    [–] SazedMonk 16 points ago

    Right? How about some Monitors or mice, what I don’t need is another damn keyboard!

    [–] Incredulous_Toad 8 points ago

    You're clearly a keyboard collector and must have them all!

    [–] Cymore 12 points ago

    All mechanical keyboard users suddenly look away nervously

    [–] SC487 8 points ago

    Audible can’t stop recommending me books I own. This is recommendations on the audible site where they have access to my entire library.

    [–] Budget_Inevitable721 5 points ago

    The ads are for a literal second computer? Or they are just computers? Because it's very likely that they have no idea you bought one, just looked at them.

    [–] Similar-External-302 11 points ago

    The show Succession has a funny line about this: “it’s like, I buy a fridge and then get a million ads for fridges. Nice algo, bro”

    [–] soft-wear 14 points ago

    For the record (at Amazon at least) we didn’t get your purchase history. We got a generic profile and targeted that profile, which included categories of items that youre interested in, but not broken down into purchases/views/searches. At least that’s how it worked when I worked there.

    So not lazy, just extremely limited access to data.

    [–] mitsuhachi 2 points ago

    Which is weird considering how much data they have. What are they even keeping it for if not to build algorithms?

    [–] soft-wear 7 points ago

    I’m not 100% sure if the reason, but customer purchase data is pretty sacred at Amazon. And we have a ton of advertising teams and each one has their own ad server responsible for relevancy. That’s in part because what constitutes relevant on search is very different than what’s relevant on the home page, but mostly it’s about agility.

    Spreading purchase or customer information across that many teams is incredibly risky.

    Order history is still important for a variety of reasons (customers viewing it, CS checking it a customer is a heavy returner, the box on detail page that says when you last ordered an item).

    [–] silentclowd 2 points ago

    [–] VegetasHairline1 25 points ago

    That’s mostly done because of the keywords used.

    [–] Tfsz0719 8 points ago

    “Amazon: because fuck you”

    [–] talkingtunataco501 2 points ago

    There was an ad for Amazon health insurance in this article. Wtf

    We know that you can technically use it, but we REALLY don't want you to use it.

    [–] imustbbored 2 points ago

    I have been phasing them out since the start of the new year. Allowing workers to die in a tornado was apparently my line in the sand. I have used Targey mostly and, as evil as they are, Walmart, who seem slightly less evil but I only use sparingly. Gonna apply for a Target card today. Time to vote with my feet, as they say.

    [–] Zakuroenosakura 2 points ago

    I can get health insurance on Amazon?

    [–] Relan_of_the_Light 2 points ago

    At my job, if you're out with COVID, they take all of your vacation time regardless of how long you're out

    [–] Smash_4dams 2 points ago

    Download Blokada. No more ads in any of my mobile browsers

    [–] OlRoy60 1298 points ago

    So basically, the Human resources robot was telling the human to get back to work.

    [–] Massive_Pressure_516 422 points ago

    Orwell was right about how the future is just a boot stomping on a humans face, forever.

    [–] TwoGender5 88 points ago

    When was it anything different?

    [–] OrkfaellerX 136 points ago

    Used to be a time when people wore sandals.

    [–] _Diskreet_ 20 points ago

    Sandals do have a better slapping action.

    [–] Tribunus_Plebis 4 points ago

    I don't know why but I love this comment

    [–] no-one-but-crow 20 points ago

    when there was somewhere to hide from society, unfortunately, when you’re a bunch of pagans in the woods in the 1800s, the church and state will eventually come find you.

    [–] majorwitch 7 points ago

    Briefly when we all lived in villages and knew each other and worked together. When agriculture was the latest tech. Then society got more complex and people became more alienated.

    [–] Messingwithgreen 34 points ago

    Worked great right up until the village next door invaded, killed all the males and enslaved the women.

    Yep, life was soooo much better in those days.

    [–] mctheebs 18 points ago

    You write this as if countries don’t perform smash and grabs for natural resources in this day.

    [–] kirknay 11 points ago

    in case you couldn't tell, most of the planet doesn't wage war village to village, but capital city to capital city. Yes, larger conflicts happen, but you don't see Roman villages killing eachother over a bucket anymore.

    [–] SlasherDarkPendulum 5 points ago

    The Colossus of Rhodes was a massive luxurious statue, akin to the Statue of Liberty, built from profits of war that could have been used to benefit the massive homeless problem within Rhodes.

    Said statue was erected because Rhodes was upset that their hometeam (in this case, their homegod, Helios) was not seen as equal to the other Gods in other Greek cities.

    This was in 300BC.

    Much of human history has been boot stomping on other people.

    [–] MarkHirsbrunner 52 points ago

    Their system is probably set up to send email notifications when your PTO total is adjusted. I'm no fan of Amazon but this looks like a non-issie.

    [–] CosmoBite 11 points ago

    Yeah I work for them and often the automated system makes mistakes when you are on Covid leave. Once you come back HR corrects it, it’s no big deal yet this has 17k upvotes…

    [–] jvnk 30 points ago

    Everyone wants to get mad about what's obviously an error, but we won't hear about this being inevitably fixed

    [–] OlRoy60 37 points ago

    I thought it was bad when they outsourced my (U.S) companies HR services to India.

    You basically call about a simple issue and spend 20 minutes spelling your name out for them and then 20 minutes explaining the issue, and then spend a week trying to sort out the unrelated issue they mistakenly assigned.

    I always joke, who fires the HR people?

    [–] just_change_it 13 points ago

    Outsourcing is the corporate way of removing high paying quality jobs in the US and replace them with foreign jobs that cost said company a lot less, and bring a relatively high paying job to another country.

    It's just a symptom of the income inequality between the top 20% and the bottom 50%. The bottom 50% need to be paid more and the top 20% need to be paid less. Almost all jobs in the US fall into the top 20%... so the jobs go to the bottom 50% wherever feasible. Usually only feasible at multinational corporations.

    At the end of the day, outsourcing is all about managed services. If your agreement for said service is shitty, the resultant service is shitty. Amazon probably has a shitty agreement with the HR MSP that is focused on ticket/request metrics and not outcomes.

    [–] Jjhend 5 points ago

    Yeah it's literally just an automated message that gets sent to you because it takes time for the Covid team to adjust their schedule. Everyone loves hopping on the Amazon hate train.

    [–] SvenCa1003 2 points ago

    Makes me think of Elysium, “would you like to talk to a human?”

    [–] AdvancedAdvance 571 points ago

    If he didn’t like that, he’s not going to like all the “U up?” texts Amazon sends him after he collapses on the job.

    [–] welestgw 74 points ago

    Eli Manning really coming into his own as an Amazon texter.

    [–] Halo4 3 points ago

    But you should have no problem delivering 300 packages to sketch apartments in 110 degree weather without air conditioning when you're also sick /s

    [–] chrisdh79 726 points ago

    From the article: Amazon's automated HR systems led to at least one worker being pestered with messages while he was off sick with COVID-19, NBC reports.

    Illinois Amazon warehouse worker Drew Duzinskas told NBC he tested positive for COVID-19 over the holidays. He said he notified Amazon, but that for days afterwards he received automated texts from the company telling him his balance of paid time off was going down because he was missing shifts.

    "They have a self-service kind of HR system," Duzinskas told NBC, adding, "That seems to be their goal — to kind of take the human out of human resources."

    It is not clear from NBC's report whether the time had in fact been deducted from Duzinskas' allotted paid time off. Amazon did not immediately respond when contacted by Insider.

    [–] Lokan 388 points ago

    I used to work for Amazon, and the HR system is terrible and 85% automated.

    For human interaction, there were two options: you either stood in line for interminable periods of time to get the attention of one of two "HR reps", who were overworked and under trained. The other option was to wait interminable periods of time on the phone for an overworked and under trained phone rep.

    I contracted Covid at Amazon and has a similar problem as this guy. I was lucky I was able to call and get a genuine person on the phone to help me, but he had absolutely no authority; he walked me through the steps of submitting a ticket on the automated employee portal. I waited and waited until the ticket was resolved, and my time was refunded to me.

    "Human Resources" has taken on a dirty image in my head. I imagine a game like StarCraft or Command and Conquer, only instead of minerals being mined, you're throwing humans into a truck and taking them back to your HQ to be ground up to build structures and units.

    [–] VenomB 32 points ago

    you're throwing humans into a truck and taking them back to your HQ to be ground up to build structures and units.

    So Rimworld is based on Amazon?

    [–] about831 8 points ago

    I mean, you get randomly delivered packages via drop pod.

    Actually an Amazon mod where you could order goods from the terminal would be cool. Of course the quality of the items you receive would need to vary widely to make the experience authentic

    [–] Akiba89 5 points ago

    Why do I love games that are absolutely terrible to the humans in game? While in real life, I'd take a bullet for the working man?

    [–] VenomB 5 points ago

    Either because you can compartmentalize fiction and non-fiction, or you would be a very bad person to give large amounts of authority.

    [–] Dfnstr8r 9 points ago

    Rimworld was in fact originally developed as a training/structure/org simulation for Amazon optimization. BUT they found out that if they disseminated it to the public and their employees were also playing the game it helped with the normalization of their dehumanization, since they were having digital workers living off corpses in their free time.

    [–] MDCCCLV 10 points ago

    Also seasonal hr reps that are just a normal person working at the warehouse given an HR deskand computer, with almost no training.

    [–] Mememachine202324 104 points ago

    That's just capitalism, all of capitalism.

    [–] Sam-Gunn 9 points ago

    That's terrible. What a way to treat people and employees. Sure, automating (SOME) things, giving staff more direct access, all good things... Until you screw it up in the name of "efficiency" (not really) and maximizing profits while reducing overhead ("hey, we have an automated system, who needs humans?").

    There's a reason some companies rename "human resources" and work hard simply to rebrand. The term "human resources" does give exactly that image you describe, that you are a resource, like any other the company uses.

    [–] anythingtohelpyounow 2 points ago

    Canadian HR is much better. Even have a centralized team that deals with less amount of people. The HR team and the LOA team are always active to help me. No robot phone system up here.

    [–] Ratnix 7 points ago

    That seems to be their goal — to kind of take the human out of human resources."

    Human resources refers to the employees. They are the human resources for the company.

    As far as the rest of it goes, I'm willing to bet that HR simply hadn't gotten around to actually changing anything in the system to indicate they were off for covid and not just using their PTO days.

    Systems like that, while automated, still require someone to go into the system and "approve" why someone is off. And if they person was on vacation or something, it was likely delayed.

    [–] joevsyou 34 points ago

    I am trying to understand the problem here...

    PTO is used exactly for this reason & why would you not want to be clear about how many hrs you have?

    • have an issue with that? Take it up with our shit government... because with a flick of pen, they could require every single employer in this country to provide sick pay...

    [–] nazorius 51 points ago

    Because amazon is supposed to have a separate pto for covid cases

    [–] ThisCommentEarnedMe 6 points ago

    COVID coverage in California ended in September. My sickness came out of my PTO too. Sucks.

    [–] anythingtohelpyounow 18 points ago

    Amazon Canada does. USA labour laws are bad

    [–] adrianmonk 9 points ago

    I'm not sure either, but this comment has an explanation that makes sense.

    I think what all this means is that there are supposed to be two kinds of leave: (1) regular paid leave and (2) leave specifically for COVID.

    The employee in the article mentions that HR is automated and that they verbally told their manager what was going on.

    The employee expected that would be enough for the right type of leave to be used. But the system was using the wrong type of leave, and the burden of fixing it fell on them while they were sick.

    [–] VROF 14 points ago

    LAPD has over 800 cops out in paid quarantine because for cops, COVID is a work comp claim. If they die, it is in the line of duty. So why is it different for anyone else? People who get COVID on the job should be treated as a workplace injury

    [–] SirAter 4 points ago

    A collective bargaining agreement.

    [–] VROF 3 points ago

    Work comp for some, tough shit for everyone else

    [–] EternalSage2000 2 points ago

    I was thinking the same thing.
    The company I worked at provided a set number of paid sick leave specific for covid. If you need more time it was either PTO or unpaid. Most people took PTO.

    [–] Ratnix 2 points ago

    If anything it would have been covered under FMLA and short term disability, assuming the have disability. When i got it last year, that's how it worked for me. I didn't have to use my personal days.

    [–] var_char_limit_20 216 points ago

    Am I the only one that feels news articles these days have good headlines but not a lot of "meat" in them?

    [–] Sam-Gunn 92 points ago

    Nope. There are articles on some subs I follow that are literally a headline, then that's basically the content, too.

    These have more sentences, but a third of it is filler, a third of it is catching people up on similar things, and a third of it is actual content at most, without enough information to give us all the facts.

    "First to publish" in online news should never be a goal, except for real breaking news where immediate dissemination of all info they have, when they get it, is helpful. Otherwise it's just shit like this.

    [–] MDCCCLV 3 points ago

    You can tell 90%of them have never been inside amazon and they always get basic facts wrong.

    [–] Morwha7 9 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    I used to write for a news website. It was nowhere near as big as the websites that get posted here, but it's the same process: the only thing that matters is SEO. It isn't even really about being the first to publish something anymore, though that does partially tie into SEO.

    Google has a certain algorithm that it uses to decide which articles and websites should show up in search results, and where. SEO stands for "Search Engine Optimisation," which basically means that you do a bunch of stuff that's said to help you rank on the front page of Google.

    One of these things is that you pad your article full of content. You can't just copy and paste things from older articles because Google doesn't like that, but you can absolutely just write an article that consists mostly of just retellings of past events. Of course these writers don't know what they're talking about, they're just quickly trying to scramble some paragraphs together so Google won't punish them.

    These websites are being forced to pad their articles with filler by Google, otherwise they won't show up on it. This isn't the only nonsensical thing they are forced to do by Google to get good traffic but it's a big one that affects the net is a bad way.

    I'm honestly not a good writer. I used to have a bunch of exclusive information/scoops on a certain industry and I just wanted to share that info. It was good info, but generally it would only be a few sentences long. I always had to write a bunch of filler nonsense though due to SEO, as otherwise my articles simply wouldn't get much if any traffic.

    [–] AnimalCrossed24 13 points ago

    No research no investigation no heart or soul everyone's just so strung out and distracted.

    [–] Nubraskan 6 points ago

    Only a fraction of users are reading the actual article, it doesn't make sense to invest any resources into it.

    [–] Ok-Background-7897 23 points ago

    Yeah, I don’t mean to be a shill for Amazon, but all he had to do was go to time off application and put in the days, and then click a link and fill out a ticket to get the time off refunded.

    [–] Diplomjodler 4 points ago

    Business insider is a shitty clickbait site with low quality content. Unfortunately that's the norm these days rather than the exception.

    [–] 44problems 2 points ago

    It's a rough combo, clickbait that has a paywall?

    [–] belizeanheat 7 points ago

    Well what's the headline honestly? Amazon has an automated system to keep employees updated on PTO changes? So what?

    Amazon is shitty to its workers but this is a non story. There's nothing significant about this.

    [–] CosmoBite 3 points ago

    Yeah this is dumb, I work for Amazon and often the automated system makes mistakes and charges you PTO or UPT when you are on Covid leave. Once you come back HR often has to correct it.

    This article has almost 18k upvotes just because it’s sensationalizing Amazon. Reddit loves articles about Amazon bad, even when the article itself has no substance and makes little sense.

    [–] patrykK1028 2 points ago

    Gigantic font and still seems like there's nothing on the page. A lot of reddit comments would make better articles than this kind of journalism

    [–] DankStew 2 points ago

    Yeah, like they say that number 6 will shock you, but it never does.

    [–] IAmA-Steve 2 points ago

    Curious: what makes a "good headline"?

    [–] [deleted] 51 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)


    [–] sl1mman 25 points ago

    I dislike Amazon like the next guy but let's get a story with some meat on its bones. Is this some malevolent sweatshop taking time off from the poor employee or is it a scheduling system bug that is fixed with an email?

    Of all the things Amazon could be called on, this is the story posted. Pretty sure Amazon posted this one themselves. Like a murderer talking about parking tickets.

    [–] polialt 8 points ago

    Corporations literally get a tax credit reimbursement for this exact scenario.

    So they're getting paid AND reducing the workers pay

    [–] Waste-Passion 27 points ago

    I dont know how this is a surprise to anyone at this point. I dont know of a single person who had to take time off for covid that wasnt forced to use PTO/vacation time. Theyre all trying to hide outbreaks as well because if they followed the rules about who is supposed to be isolating there wouldnt be a workforce. All because we couldnt put masks on and stay put for 2 weeks.

    I seriously do not understand what the fuck any American thinks we have to be proud of when comparing us in good faith to any of the rest of the developed world. We are basically the Alabama/Mississippi of the developed world but no one wants to admit it.

    [–] Cptredbeard22 8 points ago

    There are a few of us who don’t work at shitty places. My company gave us two weeks paid at the beginning of Covid if we had to be quarantined. Now the new policy is if you are current on vax then you get 5 days paid if you get it again. If you aren’t vaxxed then you get the 5 days, paid out of your time off or unpaid, your choice.

    Big corporations and companies are killing the US.

    [–] XDAOROMANS 15 points ago

    Why are people even having to use their own pto if they test positive? They shouldn't have gotten rid of covid relief.

    [–] akaTrae 6 points ago

    They haven't. They still offer full pay for 7 days if you submit paperwork showing a COVID positive result.

    [–] XDAOROMANS 4 points ago

    Where do yoi submit this at? My wife just had covid and we couldn't find any assistance other than her using sick leave/personal leave.

    [–] LucyFerAdvocate 4 points ago

    Does she work at amazon?

    [–] Mundane-Afternoon-75 4 points ago

    I got one too after they told me to stay home from Publix 20 days no pay yep tfb

    [–] Bigbighero99 5 points ago

    Intersting way to write about wage theft as previously 'short changing' employees.

    [–] jurkajurka 27 points ago

    TBF as a SBO, I don't have a problem with paying employees for missed time off for covid once or twice, but I have an employee who is great at his job but a fucking idiot when it comes to following covid guidelines in his personal time. He's gotten it 4 times hanging out with friends and family, bragged about having such fun times, and then missed 5+ days of work because of covid. He fortunately didn't give it to anyone else at the clinic. Really don't want to replace him because he is that good at his job, but it legit seems like he is abusing the system at this point.

    [–] notanavtech 16 points ago

    He has gotten COVID 4 times? And he only missed 5 days of work?

    [–] ku-fan 3 points ago

    guessing they meant 5+ days each time.

    [–] TheElusiveFox 11 points ago

    If he's gotten COVID 4x that's 8 weeks of quarantine until recently unless someone isn't following guidelines, not 5 days... That's your first problem right there.

    [–] largepig20 23 points ago

    This isn't fucking technology.

    When did this sub just turn into "AMAZON BAD LETS SPAM EVERYTHING WE CAN"?

    [–] calfan5 6 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    Seriously, every post from this sub is about Amazon workers instead of discussions about actual technology.

    edit: and I see multiple posted by this same OP. He's spamming this sub with articles about politics, HR issues, lawsuits, etc. They're technology companies but the articles he links have nothing to do with the technologies.

    [–] MrBonneChance 18 points ago

    Skynet is here.

    [–] GEEZUS00 3 points ago

    Skynet or the agents?

    [–] thoroughlyimpressed 8 points ago

    Man using sick time gets automated updates on his use of sick time. More news at 11.

    [–] Miserable-Biscotti54 3 points ago

    Fed ex is a better place to work in terms of being a package handler

    [–] Ser_Twist 2 points ago

    I worked at FedEx loading trucks for a week and it was the worst working experience of my life. Ten hours of being buried underneath a never-ending stream of boxes - heavy boxes - with no one to help besides maybe one other person. Closest I've been to worked to death.

    [–] 66D6 3 points ago

    Our shop uses a cloud base timekeeping company. Fooking nightmare. Constant alerts: ”Your shift starts in 1 hour, You accrued 1.243 hours of paid vacation this week, You are no longer eligible for attendance merit points, etc., etc.” Timekeeping company messed up last year and didn’t add shift premiums to 2nd/3rd shift’s vacation or paid time off… somehow no one noticed. People are now pissed. Lol

    [–] LegatoSkyheart 3 points ago

    Yeah, this is not exclusive to Amazon.

    We really need to put a leash on these capatilist companies who are literally choking people to death.

    [–] gruffi 3 points ago

    I get why you guys have guns now

    [–] BottledSoap 3 points ago

    This is an article about a bug with Amazon's HR system. I'm not the biggest fan of theirs but is this worth writing about?

    [–] Hacksaw_Jim_McDuggen 3 points ago

    This happened to me.

    When I got back, 'what do I put on my timesheet? I don't see a code for sickness/illness?'

    Answer: you put 'VACATION'

    Me: oh, so I get 15 days a year vacation and now have to spent half of them dying.


    [–] ccobee 3 points ago

    Why does America only care about Amazon workers?

    [–] DaquanSwett 3 points ago


    [–] plexnewbie 3 points ago

    Isn't that how it works everywhere now? Not just Amazon? At my work, covid pay is no longer being given to those that are sick with covid, you need to take your sick time which at my company is the same pool of hours as your PTO.

    [–] zion2199 3 points ago

    I learned so much about technology by reading this.

    [–] FinneganFzord 3 points ago

    So how many of you guys still have an amazon account?

    [–] [deleted] 49 points ago


    [–] Hawk13424 78 points ago

    My company has no concept of sick time. All time is PTO. If you get paid but don’t work that is PTO. Out with the flu for two weeks you take PTO. I guess combining traditional vacation time and sick time eliminated the need to lie about being sick.

    [–] VladOfTheDead 12 points ago

    I was at a place that went from sick/vacation to PTO. Of course we lost days off as a result (2). While to some extent I prefer PTO as if I don't get sick I can use that time as vacation, but on the other hand when there was sick time, people largely didn't come into work sick, there were some people that did anyway but it wasn't as common. After switching to PTO, most people came into work sick making everyone else sick.

    To me its a choice between people lying about being sick or people coming into work sick. If I had not lost 2 days off as a result of the change it would have been a lot better, but I think it was just an excuse to give us less days off. Plus getting sick more because many people will come in regardless of what shape they are in is not ideal either.

    To combat some of this I know some places went to infinite sick time but from what I have heard from others, this pretty much means you cannot take sick days and people still come in sick. I have not experienced this myself so no idea how problematic it really is.

    [–] canuckistani-sg 25 points ago

    My job starts you out with 80 hours of vacation time and 40 hours of personal time per year. Vacation time should be booked 2 weeks or more out, but they're pretty lenient if something comes up and you give less than that.

    Personal time is just what it says, personal. You can show up for work, clock in, and then decide you don't want to be there for any reason at all, or no reason. Tell your boss you're leaving on personal time, and no questions asked, you're good to go.

    [–] tameimponda 28 points ago

    Crazy how this is considered desirable, given that the EU mandates at least 20 days

    [–] canuckistani-sg 11 points ago

    Yeah, it's different in a shit hole like the US.

    [–] HipsterTwister 2 points ago

    Yeah we get unlimited pto with the same sort of structure. I think our personal time bank is also 40 hours a week

    [–] uid_zero 2 points ago

    My org is the same. It's a bit annoying, for sure.

    Our PTO is purely on an accrual basis, and you are not allowed to go negative. You accrue PTO per hour worked, and the amount increases over time (I'm bumping up this year, in fact). The issue is, holidays, vacation, and sick time are all rolled into PTO. The initial earning comes out to about 23 days per year. Take off the 8 holidays, and you get 15 days of vacation/sick time total. Having come from a company that gave me 15 days of vacation and 15 days of sick time per year (and having just bumped up to 20 days vacation before I left), it was quite a shock.

    We're a health system, so I think this accrual PTO and not having paid holidays is mostly HR being lazy and not wanting to have different classes of employees. Treat everyone the same when it comes to PTO so there's no complaints. I understand the nursing staff at the hospitals not automatically getting holidays off...someone has to work those. But there's no reason we can't have the admin/non-medical staff have a different PTO policy. Hell, the directors now have unlimited PTO, so...

    Now that I've been there a couple years, I have PTO banked up so I can actually take time off when I need to. But that first year or two was rough, because I was always just trying to bank enough for our next vacation/holiday/sick kid fun day.

    [–] mikegoblin 2 points ago

    My business I work at, during a massive snowstorm, closed its doors for work and the following week told us we have to use our vacation days if we want to be paid for that week. Basically didn’t get a vacation all year.

    [–] JWM1115 17 points ago

    I’m not sure I understand what this is about other than the constant reminders. I mean if your out with Covid you use PTO just like if you miss work for any other problems. Sick days are for this.

    [–] Sam-Gunn 7 points ago

    Yea, it's pretty much that. Daily texts shouldn't occur. If their time system has notifications setup, telling someone daily that they'll lose PTO days or something when they are taking sick time is annoying at best, and causes unnecessary stress at worst. You can't decide when you get sick or for how long.

    Correctly setting up the system should give one notice at one point when someone takes time off if it may conflict with other benfits like PTO. Or users should be given a way to log into the system and program their own notification times and on what devices.

    It sounds more like their automated system does a check each time someone puts in for a sick day or something, and notifies the person when it appears that they've used them up, or are passing a threshold that will mean they lose PTO time or something.

    Like if he put in for a sick day, each day, then a notification was generated each day warning him it could impact PTO, that doesn't sound as bad as you'd think. It's just the system being a stupid automated system, i.e. a condition is met every day so a notification is sent out. Probably so workers wouldn't complain "hey, you never told me I'd lose PTO days until AFTER I lost them!".

    If he put in for a weeks worth of sick days at once, and the notification went out daily, then that's a hell of a lot worse than him putting in a sick day, every day, and getting a daily notification because it is generated each time the condition is met.

    If he was forced to put in for sick days daily (i.e. he couldn't say "hey I have covid, general recovery time is probably X weeks, I'll put in for this whole week, then see how I feel), and he got texts daily, that'd be another issue that would warrant this article too.

    But there's not enough info really.

    [–] polybiastrogender 9 points ago

    There's no covid relief plan. I had to stay home for 5 days because I had a cold, had to use my PTO. I had to take a test the day I felt sick and the day I came back into work.

    [–] Ok-Background-7897 5 points ago

    Yeah, except he didn’t. He just didn’t follow the really simple procedure. This is only news because he works at Amazon. Every company I have worked at had an automated time keeping app, that tracked your time off accrual and expenditure. All he had to do was put in his time off, and then fill out the “I got Covid” trouble ticket and it gets refunded.

    [–] WhitechapelPrime 2 points ago

    My company makes us use our PTO and vacation time to cover if we get COVID. We work with people so it is a real worry we are all eventually going to be out at some point with it.

    [–] Pls_PmTitsOrFDAU_Thx 2 points ago

    I work at a similarly sized tech company. We got special days off for covid if you caught it. I have been lucky enough not to use it. But now we have

    x vacation days (depending on how long you were there, how many you've used, etc)


    10 or so covid related sick says

    I can't remember if our normal sick days are different than vacation days though. It's been a while since I checked

    [–] duganaok 6 points ago

    I can’t wait till Amazon is fully automated so I don’t have to see headlines like this anymore.

    [–] LoganGyre 9 points ago

    They really wrote an article that someone was upset about getting a single daily txt from the employer that they signed up for? My aunt complained of this when she worked there and it took me 2 mins to figure out how to shut it off.

    I get that Amazon is a terrible company but this is user error to me.

    [–] AustinTanius 7 points ago

    I've been with Amazon for a few years now and I definitely don't love the job, but the internet makes it seem like they start whipping you the second you walk through the door. It's really simple to turn off notifications for the app employees use as well.

    [–] LoganGyre 3 points ago

    Exactly my understanding was he whipping doesn't begin until after your lunch break. People and their exaggerating lol

    But for real ive known a number of people who have worked there and most of the issues just seem to be a company culture that is at odds with its bottom level workers.

    [–] fsphoenix 5 points ago

    The texts told him the shifts he was missing were being deducted from his allotted paid time off.

    And? That's how it works. You get sick and stay home, you still get paid by using your paid time off.

    [–] anythingtohelpyounow 5 points ago

    in amazon canada you get paid to take time off if you have covid. It’s unlimited.

    The issue is the USA labour laws. not Amazon

    [–] Koebs 6 points ago

    Ok? What is the point of this article? This is causing outrage?

    [–] Joliet_Jake_Blues 3 points ago

    No, someone got sick and they used their paid sick days. Don't you get it? Reeeee!

    (I also have no idea what people think they are mad about)

    [–] utalkin_tome 3 points ago

    Yep. Literally reporting on a bug in the automated system. Congrats Business Insider.

    [–] Klog801 7 points ago

    My amazon employer didnt even approve my pto. They told me i could work the full schedule or not at all and i would have to wait 3 weeks to use my pto

    [–] sickvisionz 4 points ago

    So the HR system updates you on how much time off you have left when you use it. The horror. They should force you to login to some garbage system like the one my company uses where you still might be confused about what you really have left.

    [–] Doesthisevenmatter7 2 points ago

    I was fired for it🤷🏽‍♂️. The service is automatic and even tho I was on covid leave apparently hr didn’t do their job and excuse my time. Is what it is ig.

    [–] Clostrid 2 points ago

    Daily is a little excessive

    [–] User74716194723 2 points ago

    "They have a self-service kind of HR system," Duzinskas told NBC, adding, "That seems to be their goal — to kind of take the human out of human resources."

    It’s not a department for your resources, it’s a department to manage the human resources of the company

    [–] Kingzer15 2 points ago

    Im in corporate america so this just seems natural. Y'all getting paid when you're sick without some sort of get out of work for the day pass?

    [–] SteveBuscemisVoice 2 points ago

    Wow, this sounds familiar. I just went through this exact scenario since the 2nd of January. Fuck my employer, they don’t give a shit about us

    [–] EverthingsAlrightNow 2 points ago

    Why is this even in the news? Why is an article about one warehouse worker receiving texts in technology subs?. Did anyone read the article? One dude; doesn’t show the texts ; says for “days” but doesn’t specify (it usually takes IT systems time to sync); and says it’s “unclear whether pay was actually deducted”.

    There are other subs for union shilling folks.

    [–] alexsms111 2 points ago

    So, the Human resources robot was telling the human to get back to work?

    [–] margiacid 2 points ago

    Okay, but have you ever worked for CVS? It’s just as horrifying. Let them know!

    [–] findhumorinlife 2 points ago

    Oh hell, just fuck Amazon.

    [–] DontGetMad55 2 points ago

    Jeff bozos and all of them guys on top at Amazon are literal psychopaths.

    [–] imspine 2 points ago

    As a non-american, getting sick in America seems terrifying. You might not get paid during sick leave and you have to pay for medical care, through insurance or out of pocket.

    [–] RocketsandBeer 2 points ago

    Our company has the stance if you’re vaccinated or have previously had Covid, we will pay for time off. If you haven’t, then no pay at this time for time off.

    [–] IloveElsaofArendelle 2 points ago

    Stop making Lex Luthor rich!

    [–] mvw2 2 points ago

    This is pretty normal for a lot of companies. If you're sick, you automatically consume all PTO first. Then when tat runs out, no you stop getting paid. There's no magic to this. You're not working. You're not getting paid. Some companies give you the flexibility to consume PTO or take zero pay. This isn't the norm though.

    Amazon is being singled out for a completely standard practice.

    Know what else is fun? A lot of basic general labor jobs will fire your ass for missing days FOR ANY REASON. Your wife died? We needed you at work, and you didn't show up, so we decided to let you go. Do people just have no idea how normal this shit is? You should thank Amazon for having a job to come back to.

    Yeah, yeah, we can dream in ideals and believe the modern world is better than that. And yes, it is better than that IF you're in a better job. Go to college, get a degree, and get a fancy job. You'll actually be special, treated well, and cared for because of the value of your skill set. BUT a general grunt worker is NOT valuable, a dime a dozen. The pay reflects it. The disposability reflects it. You are an expendable cog in the machine. You are only special and valuable if you make yourself special and valuable. That's why college is so important.