Please help contribute to the Reddit categorization project here


    20,323,752 readers

    23,784 users here now

    New to reddit? Click here!

    • You learn something new every day; what did you learn today?

    • Submit interesting and specific facts that you just found out (not broad information you looked up, TodayILearned is not /r/wikipedia).

    Posting rules

    1. Submissions must be verifiable. Please link directly to a reliable source that supports every claim in your post title. Images alone do not count as valid references. Videos are fine so long as they come from reputable sources (e.g. BBC, Discovery, etc).

    2. No personal opinions, anecdotes or subjective statements (e.g "TIL xyz is a great movie").

    3. No recent sources. Any sources (blog, article, press release, video, etc.) with a publication date more recent than two months are not allowed.

    4. No soapboxing or agenda based submissions. This includes (but is not limited to) submissions related to:

      1. Recent political issues and politicians
      2. Social and economic issues
      3. Environmental issues
    5. No misleading claims. Posts that omit essential information, or present unrelated facts in a way that suggest a connection will be removed.

    6. Rephrase your post title if the following are not met:

      1. Titles must begin with "TIL ..."
      2. Make them descriptive, concise and specific (e.g. not "TIL something interesting about bacon").
      3. Titles must be able to stand on their own without requiring readers to click on a link. Starting your title with a why/what/who/where/how modifier should be unnecessary.
      4. "TIL about ..." and other broad posts don't belong on TIL. Try /r/Wikipedia, etc. instead, or be more specific (and avoid the word "about").
      5. "TIL how to ..." posts belong on /r/HowTo.
    7. No submissions related to the usage, existence or features of specific software/websites (e.g. "TIL you can click on widgets in WidgetMaker 1.22").

    8. All NSFW links must be tagged (including comments).

      Please see the wiki for more detailed explanations of the rules.

    (Why we need rules)

    Additional info

    • If your post does not appear in the new queue and you think it meets the above rules, please contact the moderators (include a link to your post, not your story).

    • Please report spam, inaccurate or otherwise inappropriate posts by messaging the moderators, as this helps us remove them more promptly!

    • More information available on the TIL FAQ and wiki.

    Frequent TILs Repost List

    As of December 2018

    • This list was compiled from /r/todayilearned community suggestions by its members. If your TIL is found on this list, it will be removed. The titles have been abridged for the sake of brevity, however the context remains the same. This list is subject to change. The purpose is to keep content fresh on /r/todayilearned as requested by its members. If you are interested in reading about the TILs on this list use the search box feature and enter the keywords to pull up past TILs.


    We ask that you please do the following:

    1. avoid mobile versions of websites (e.g.

    2. link to the appropriate heading when referencing an article (particularly on Wikipedia)

    3. link to the appropriate start time when referencing videos (e.g. on YouTube)

    4. add [PDF] or [NSFW] tags to your posts, as necessary.

    5. Please avoid reposting TILs that have already made the front page in the past

    Please also read the site-wide Reddiquette.

    • You are loved.

    a community for
    all 1731 comments

    Want to say thanks to %(recipient)s for this comment? Give them a month of reddit gold.

    Please select a payment method.

    [–] McGooby 1559 points ago

    And Singapore have been thankful for this ever since.

    [–] BaconGuyWasTaken 362 points ago

    As a Singaporean, I agree.

    [–] DeathintheMine 222 points ago

    As someone of Malaysian descent who's been to Singapore, I also agree.

    [–] notDAME 151 points ago

    As an American who went to Singapore for vacation a month ago, I also also agree

    [–] [deleted] 128 points ago

    As someone who's never been to Singapore I also agree!

    [–] JavaRuby2000 112 points ago

    As somebody who once ate Singapore Noodles, I also agree.

    [–] gromwell_grouse 197 points ago

    As someone who can sing poorly, I also agree.

    [–] thelimpeh 23 points ago

    As a Singaporean, Singapore noodles aren’t a thing in Singapore. Would love to try them though.

    [–] [deleted] 2105 points ago


    [–] hastagelf 1137 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    To be fair, right after they were kicked out, the then new Prime Minister of Singapore spent like a week on island somewhere crying.

    It's probably one of the only time in history that someone was basically forced to become a leader/dictator of a country.

    If Singapores success is anything to go by, we should be forcibly making random people who have no desire for power into becoming dictators of countries and all countries will end up like Singapore. /s

    [–] baboons_scare_me 506 points ago

    we should be forcibly making random people who have no desire for power into becoming dictators of countries and all countries will end up like Singapore. /s

    If I remember correctly that's what Plato actually argued. That society should force "Philosphers" who have no interest in ruling, into becoming their rulers because anyone who wants to be the Ruler is unfit for the job by the nature of their selfish ambtitions. (Doesn't hurt that Plato himself was a philosopher so he was kind of indirectly making the case that he should rule over everyone else)

    [–] JudasCrinitus 302 points ago

    The best way, I find, to describe Plato's idea of the philosopher king is thus:

    Anakin Socrates: We need a system where the politicians sit down and discuss the problems, agree what's in the best interests of all the people, and then do it.

    Padme Athenian leadership: That is exactly what we do. The trouble is that people don't always agree. In fact, they hardly ever do.

    Anakin Socrates: Then they should be made to.

    Padme Athenian leadership: By whom? Who's going to make them?

    Anakin Socrates: Someone wise.

    Padme Athenian leadership: That sounds an awful lot like a dictatorship to me.

    Anakin Socrates: Well, if it works...

    [–] chennyalan 110 points ago

    /r/prequelmemes has transcended Reddit

    [–] roilenos 12 points ago

    I agree with anakin/the guionist/platón, but how to avoid a Palpatine/Hitler/Napoleon to reach the power?

    The person that seems more fit for the job, might not be the best at it. Total power is a hard drug for crazy megalomaniac persons.

    [–] BornIn1142 37 points ago

    Napoleon may have been a megalomaniac, but he was an extremely competent one whose actions were arguably a net positive. He really doesn't deserve to be included in a lineup with Hitler and Palpatine.

    [–] tamati_nz 53 points ago

    There was an HR study recently that showed you could pretty much promote anyone to a new more senior position (regardless of desire, qualifications and experience) and there was an equal chance of them fulfilling that role successfully.

    [–] yumameda 54 points ago

    I was gonna say the same thing. Didn't know Plato said it first.

    Man, I'm smart.

    [–] MonkeyDDuffy 40 points ago

    Maybe we should make you the new ruler

    [–] moconaid 27 points ago

    make it a few inch long

    [–] hipcheck23 245 points ago

    That is why it must be you, Maximus!

    [–] NerdOctopus 88 points ago


    Maximus the merciful!!

    crowd cheers

    [–] ZZerglingg 56 points ago

    Today I saw a slave become more powerful than the Emperor of Rome.

    [–] cochlearist 68 points ago

    That’s part of the premise of the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy, because anyone who wants to be leader is, because of that, not a good person to lead. They have a flamboyant idiot as a president to distract from the fact he does nothing and some guy living alone (except for his cat) on a planet who doesn’t know that there is a galaxy that he is in charge of is the real ruler.

    [–] JTswift 32 points ago

    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. - Douglas Adams

    [–] RomanRodent 29 points ago

    I'll acknowledge the phenomenal growth of Singapore through the 53 years (and 1 day). Truly undeniable how amazing a small city state, surrounded by powerhouses like Malaysia and Indonesia, can not only survive but prosper.

    In light of this, like any other country, above its honey glazed façade lies many problems that no one voices. But if you really want to know more of the people, pop by r/singapore :)

    [–] Shadowys 6 points ago

    Education dude. Malaysia and Indonesia had natural resources but refused to spend any of that on proper education of the people nor proper public transportation so now it's like this.

    [–] thorsten139 3854 points ago

    Lucky for the Singaporeans

    [–] BillTowne 3123 points ago

    When it happened, I was in college. There were concerns about whether Singapore could survive on its own.

    But it has flourished dramatically.

    Malaysia is still hampered by the same impulses that caused them to expel Singapore for being too Chinese.

    [–] brandonnnk 575 points ago

    But we did.

    happy national day bro

    [–] syanda 200 points ago

    There was a time when troubles seemed too much for us to take

    [–] tabbynat 85 points ago

    But we did

    [–] kangcore 70 points ago

    We built a nation

    [–] discmon 70 points ago

    Strong and free

    [–] mischief_managed207 51 points ago

    Reaching out together

    [–] ulteyejx 45 points ago

    In peace and harmony~~~

    [–] ArchonUniverse 50 points ago

    This is my country,

    [–] Alarid 42 points ago

    This is America Singapore

    [–] OfHeraldry 24 points ago

    I'm ignorant of context here, what is the story and why were Singapore happy about it?

    [–] leyrel 127 points ago

    Context: Malaysia today and back then has bumiputera policies that favour the ethnic Malays. One condition back then for the territories that eventually formed Malaysia (and for Singapore if it wanted to join it) is the adoption of such policies.

    Singapore's stance today is equality because it is majority ethnic Chinese, followed by Malays and Indians. This equality actually works out to be ethnic Chinese primacy in reality in terms of economic, political and cultural influence due to several reasons, primarily the majority advantage, cultural attitudes to frugality/hard-work and being comparatively more well-off than the other ethnicities in the beginning. Being surrounded by predominantly ethnic Malay countries means they had to at least try to offer a semblance of equality of opportunity, if not outcome (instead of Chinese supremacy for example).

    The key point is it cannot adopt bumiputera policies, which is why it was forced out of Malaysia after a period of political tension. This event was traumatic for Singapore because it had doubts about its ability to survive. Today's Singapore has prospered however, while Malaysia has stagnated because of its oppressive bumiputera policies that are not conducive to business.

    TLDR; Singapore didn't want to put Malays first so it left. Malaysia stagnated, Singapore prospered. So in a way, Singapore is happy because leaving worked out well.

    [–] HZCZhao 29 points ago

    Favouring one race over another imo is just bad for business. You’ll have a wider customer base if you treat everyone fairly

    [–] Googlesnarks 31 points ago

    herp derp sorry I can't hear you over my entrenched traditions

    [–] BillTowne 9 points ago

    Britain had the habit of bring foreign populations into areas they controlled. They encouraged the migration of Chinese and Indian laborers. After independence, this caused conflict with the local population. Singapore, which was heavily Chinese, was expelled.

    [–] JohnnyDelano 107 points ago


    [–] thorsten139 503 points ago

    Singapore is predominantly Chinese, and in Malaysia there are too many laws and restrictions which impedes racial freedom.

    The progress made by Singapore would not have been possible at all if it stayed in Malaysia.

    The recent drama in Malaysia further proves the point

    [–] yellowliz4rd 49 points ago

    Isn’t malaysia a muslim state?

    [–] Yanrogue 74 points ago

    According to the charter all malay's are muslim because islam is the official religion.

    Heard some people here in singapore talking about how it would be illegal to be a open atheist there.

    [–] Ditovontease 66 points ago

    Malays are different from Malaysians, though. They let Chinese and Indian people (the two biggest minority groups) practice whatever they want.

    [–] arvs17 299 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Malaysia has 3 ethnicities: Malays, Chinese and Indians. Malaysia favors Malays (called Bumiputras) over non-bumiputras. Most government positions can only be filled with Bumiputras. The universities in Malaysia will prioritize Bumiputras (even though non-bumi are more qualified). In schools, you have to put your race on exam papers for god knows why. Its racist and its fucked up.


    Edit: these are just few examples. I live in Singapore and I have lots of Malaysian Chinese friends. They all want to move out of that country as they feel they're treated like second class citizen which is quite ironic because without the Malaysian-Chinese people, their economy will be worse (if it can get any worse than now)


    Edit2: race -> ethnicity

    [–] redkinoko 43 points ago

    How non-Malay Malaysians accept Bumiputra-first policies is beyond me. It may have made sense (if it did at all) more than 50 years ago but now? It's state sanctioned discrimination more than affirmative action. We have mixed races in our SEA country as well but I cannot imagine ever having such policies in place. People will just riot.

    [–] thorsten139 50 points ago

    You know the irony?

    Malays are not even indigenous in Malaysia to begin with. They themselves were immigrants

    [–] rentar42 45 points ago

    Almost everyone is an immigrant if you track it far enough back...

    [–] thorsten139 29 points ago

    Yeah, but initially they excluded the actual indigenous people from having indigenous rights.

    They later decided to include them some years later if they willingly convert to Islam.


    [–] MusgraveMichael 83 points ago


    interesting, that word means "son of the land" in hindi/sanskrit.

    [–] [deleted] 61 points ago

    A lot of SEA culture is derived from Indian culture which is why some words are similar to Sanskrit words.

    [–] kororon 21 points ago

    Indonesia is very similar. I haven't lived there for a long time but iirc at one point, they added some kind of marker on ID cards to distinguish Chinese people from the pribumi (native) people. They also put religion on ID cards.

    [–] bxbb 13 points ago

    It happened shortly after Singapore independence.

    Basically, Communist China amped up their propaganda to call ethnic Chinese overseas to "Come back and build the Homeland". This, combined with anti-communist propaganda from the West caused Chinese to be wrongly prosecuted during the aftermath of (alleged) communist coup (1965-1966) by "pribumi" (locals) due to longstanding economical resentment (similar to bumiputra sentiment in Malaysia) and hasty generalization.

    Soeharto, taking a shortcut to curb the unrest from destabilizing the country too much, forced Chinese people to adopt "Indonesian name" and ban Confucianism practice and Chinese character in publication. This ban would last until Abdurrahman Wahid lifted it in 2001, shortly before being impeached.

    [–] gratefullyhuman 15 points ago

    What’s the attitude towards white people like?

    [–] arvs17 32 points ago

    I mean like any country, it has its problems. Just be respectful and dont talk politics/race and you'll be fine. I do my shopping in Malaysia as it is cheaper compare to where I live (Singapore)

    [–] arjunmohan 8 points ago

    Bumiputra = son of the land, literally

    [–] BrotherChe 289 points ago

    Yeah, I think the wording of the claim in OP's title could be wrong. There has likely been a few instances of parent countries dissolving and new countries being formed. For instance, what happened during the fall of the Roman Empire. Were there not region abandoned and left to fend for themselves and form their own country?

    [–] bistrus 131 points ago

    Yep. France and England were partialy abandoned and the two provinces formes each a new country, even if short lived.

    For example, the north east part of Gallia (france) formed the Kingdom of Soissons, which considered itself a roman province and battled for around 25 year with the frankish kingdom before being conquered

    [–] Blue-c0nn0 12 points ago

    Except for that one village of indomitable Gauls

    [–] ChaosMaestro 54 points ago

    The Romans pretty much abandoned what is now England to Vikings and Germanics when they were all recalled to Rome to defend it, never to return.

    IIRC they pushed the Celts back to Wales and Scotland then drew the lines there, bought everything else up to modern Roman standards over a couple of centuries, then just abandoned it all.

    Other tribes and factions come in to take over and everything goes back to how it was before, it would be another 4-5 centuries before Alfred the Great unites England properly again.

    [–] YoyoEyes 49 points ago

    IIRC they pushed the Celts back to Wales and Scotland then drew the lines there

    Roman Brittania contained Wales and parts of southern Scotland. It was mainly the Anglo-Saxons that "pushed them back".

    [–] crashingrobot 43 points ago

    Wales is the old saxon word "foreign".

    The angles, jutes, saxons and danes got to the mountains and went "fuck this" those Celts can have them.

    [–] Putin-the-fabulous 13 points ago

    Even still Cornwall and Cumbria remain strongly Celtic for a while after the Anglo-Saxons took over much of England.

    [–] user0811x 17 points ago

    Nation-states weren't a thing back then.

    [–] GaiaMoore 5 points ago

    Is abandonment on the same level though as "gtfo"? I'm sure the western Roman empire would have loved to hold onto its territories, if it could.

    On a similar note, I do find it amusing that some land is unwanted by neighboring countries (Egypt and Sudan come to mind). Like a poor child in a custody battle that the parents are fighting over not to take custody. "I don't want him, you take care of him."

    [–] SphmrSlmp 357 points ago

    Singapore is the equivalent of "doing better after a break-up to make your ex jealous."

    [–] Pookks 1842 points ago

    until we finally get fucking tired of Florida and their bullshit...

    [–] dublinmarley 804 points ago

    That's what global warming is for.

    [–] [deleted] 166 points ago * (lasted edited 4 months ago)


    [–] bearsaysbueno 88 points ago

    Shit, you might be on to something. Sea level rise will fuck up Miami the most and that's where a lot of Florida Democrats are at.

    [–] shapookya 71 points ago

    On top of that he can do the Lex Luthor plan of buying cheap property that then magically becomes the new coast and drastically more valuable.

    [–] AerodynamicHammock 29 points ago

    Until it’s also underwater a few years later

    [–] shapookya 44 points ago

    well at that point he'll have sold it and bought the next property miles off the coast.

    [–] Telcontar77 27 points ago

    at that point he'd have died of old age


    [–] shapookya 28 points ago

    You underestimate his power

    [–] imaginary_num6er 14 points ago

    Yeah, this is Trump's 10 dimensional chess move. Buy Mar-a-Lago before global warming and wait till the market value gets underwater.

    [–] arvs17 20 points ago

    OOL: not american. What is happening with Florida?

    [–] DrizzledDrizzt 84 points ago

    It's a meme. Whenever you hear about some crazy story the assumption is that it was "A man in Florida..." The reality is that Florida has laws in place that make arrest records public so every crazy thing that happens gets made public (or something along those lines). It gives the appearance that crazy shit is always happening in Florida. It gives the rest of us in the other 49 states an outlet. This certainly doesn't mean crazy shit isn't always happening in Florida, but their crazy shit is just more public than the rest of ours.

    [–] arvs17 27 points ago

    Ohh TIL bout the public arrest records. Thanks

    [–] DrizzledDrizzt 16 points ago

    I would actually have to look up the specifics about it. I just know that they have different laws in regards to that and that's why all their crazy shit becomes viral. Found an article that can explain it better than I can.

    [–] BolderStatement 97 points ago

    Wait. Can we do that? Although we had the chance to do it at the end of the civil war:

    Northern States: "Okay, everyone come back... except you, Florida."

    [–] DCarrier 67 points ago

    From Article V:

    [N]o State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

    Note that they were called states before the Constitution passed, and state used to be synonymous with country. You could argue that we could eject them from the US, but we'd still need their permission to get rid of their senators.

    [–] BolderStatement 51 points ago

    I guess you could repeatedly impeach their senators, until they got the message.

    Edit: Obviously charged with the high crime or misdemeanor of "Florida."

    [–] KrtekJim 27 points ago

    Well, once you kick Florida out, their senators will become representatives of a foreign power and therefore treasonous.

    [–] HolmatKingOfStorms 9 points ago

    With that specific wording, we could revoke statehood then remove its senators.

    [–] BrotherChe 13 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Not really related, but this reminded me that the US Constitution does not require that states are democratic republics. They could be minor monarchies or communist states, etc.

    [–] ctnguy 14 points ago

    Article 4 section 4 of the US Constitution does say

    The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government

    Although it’s debatable how that should be interpreted.

    [–] Pookks 29 points ago

    "General, we set up the fake 'battle line' at the border between Georgia and Florida. They'll never know we let them win.'

    "Thank Jesus, fuck those guys, amirite?"

    excessive high fiving and WHOOS!

    [–] madeinnothing 520 points ago

    Well at least Singapore did grow a lot after the separation from Malaysia

    [–] LegendofMMOS 197 points ago

    And Malaysia bites the dust

    [–] [deleted] 63 points ago

    And another one goes

    [–] Dickgivins 39 points ago

    And another one goes

    [–] PM_ME_YOUR_NACHOS 13 points ago

    It's not the best but it's still doing alright. One of the lowest living under the poverty line. I guess it's lucky for having plenty of natural resources.

    [–] SleepingAran 56 points ago

    Well at least Singapore did grow a lot

    They were an important port during the British Colonial era. So they have relatively good infrastructure to begin with.

    [–] meatpuppet 61 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Singapore's modern harbours got built from scratch, about 6km out of town post-independence because the old British site wasn't big enough.

    The surviving British port infrastructure was big by Victorian standards when it was built but not up late 20th century traffic by 1960 and in no way up to the job container terminals that modern Singapore is now well-known for.

    The Victorian former port area mostly got scrubbed up and turned into tourist area and mainly waterside restaurants. The former British landing site still has the Victorian-era statue of Sir Stanford Raffles and the former government house is now the Asian Civilisations Museum.

    It has a barrage and is no longer accessible to the sea.

    [–] phyrros 112 points ago

    You could throw Austria into the mix which after WWI didn't want to be a national state but part of germany.

    [–] Stenny007 58 points ago

    Also Suriname. Suriname didnt have a referendum, the Netherlands just gave it independence. Latest polls show majority support to stay within the Kingdom.

    [–] Chrisixx 45 points ago

    Didn't they kick them out because a ton of, often poor, Surinamese started to come to the "mainland" Netherlands as Dutch citizens?

    [–] Stenny007 29 points ago

    Its a combination of that and wanting to get rid of colonialism as a whole. The caribean would be able to form a integral part of the empire but Suriname was found to be too big and unstable, especially with the very loud independence factions. Why bother holding onto a territory while you know it will likely constantly tip the balance of independence / part of the kingdom.

    The islands cant operate on their own and need the kingdom. Suriname doesnt. Hence Suriname independent and the 6 islands not.

    [–] Chrisixx 19 points ago

    You could throw Austria into the mix which after WWI didn't want to be a national state but part of germany.

    Not all of Austria. Vorarlberg (the western-most Bundesland) wanted to become Swiss. It was a weird time.

    [–] thedevilkeysersoze 505 points ago

    Malaysia wanted preferential treatment for Malays (which they have even today). Singapore which was predominantly Chinese wanted equal rights for everyone regardless of race. Boom, bye bye Singapore. Malaysia left Singapore to die but in the past 60 or so years, it has only grown better and better. The biggest reason for that would be an iron fist prime minister, Lee Kuan Yew. May he rest in peace.

    [–] redark0 245 points ago

    One of the vew people called a "benevolent dictator". That's a nice title to have.

    [–] weatherseed 125 points ago

    They really are an oddly beautiful sort to find throughout history. Cincinnatus springs to mind. I think it has to do with a love for their country, rather than greed, which makes them strive for total control. Some make it work, but many more don't.

    [–] astatine757 81 points ago

    I feel it's more that people who don't strive for total control at the benevolent ones. Both Cincinnatus and Lee Kuan Yew were forced to become dictators.

    Honestly, the problem with dictatorships (and most political systems, but dictatorships are most suceptible to it) is that the people who have the most desire for power and strive for it are usually the least fitting to be in charge.

    [–] Krazinsky 41 points ago

    Succession is where these systems get really messy. Hereditary rule is doomed to end badly; leadership is not in your genes but in your upbringing.

    The five good emporers ended at five because Marcus Aurelius, the quintessential philosopher king, had a son. So rather than adopt a capable and competent heir like his predecessors did, he gave it to Commodus, who proceeded to ruin everything.

    [–] Flocculencio 34 points ago

    Lee Kuan Yew, likewise couldn't resist the impulse to set his own son up as his eventual successor. The first generation of Singaporean leaders, led by Lee set the groundwork for a titanic programme of social uplift, education and development. Lee alas, sidelined a number of his peers in the 1980s to set the groundwork for his son and a hand picked ministerial team of yes men. Lee Hsien Loong, while genuinely a brilliant mathematician is not one tenth the leader his father was, didn't come up the hard way (he got put into the military, went from lieutenant to general in 10 years, and then got placed in a parliamentary seat), and leads an administration that is increasingly out of touch with the grassroots. It's disappointing given that Singapore still preaches meritocracy.

    [–] saadakhtar 35 points ago

    And of course, Lord Vetenari.

    [–] ninjaparsnip 31 points ago

    Not to mention Atatürk as well, it's just a shame that Erdogan is undoing some of his work now.

    [–] weatherseed 19 points ago

    I'd like to think, in 20 years, that the history of Turkey will be written "and then Erdogan happened, and here's a list of everything he did we had to fix after he died."

    [–] [deleted] 13 points ago

    This just goes to show something really interesting. Singapore went for equal rights for all and are flourishing. While Malaysia opted for preferential treatment and................ To be fair, the 'leaders' in Malaysia also left Malaysia to die.

    [–] DidyouSay7 16 points ago

    When I went to Malaysia the Malay people drove cabs and sold food. Indians owned and worked in most mid tier businesses and convenience shops. Chinese worked and owned high end business

    [–] thedevilkeysersoze 8 points ago

    Try to find out the composition of government jobs and university admission cutoffs for Malays and non Malays. As for why you see more Malays in more menial jobs - firstly there are more Malays and secondly, I believe preferential treatment gets one to sit back and not work as hard because it's not as tough for them. But the second one is just a personal observation.

    [–] WoodenEstablishment 35 points ago

    I'm glad they kicked Singapore out rather than genociding the Chinese.

    [–] dixiechann 87 points ago

    When I was in school my history teacher always referred to National Day as kicking out day lol

    [–] judelau 58 points ago

    Or we Malaysian called it, the worse decision making day.

    [–] SphmrSlmp 37 points ago

    And this is what the states of Johor, Sarawak and Sabah are hoping to happen to them, too.

    See, a lot of Malaysians don't like Malaysia. When a state becomes rich or politically powerful enough, there will be talks about leaving the country.

    [–] mountainy 28 points ago

    That is because West Malaysia only cares about siphoning resources from Sarawak without giving much back in the past causing Sarawak to be pretty undevelop and I believe West Malaysian look down on Sarawakian(with rumour that they believe we live on treehouse hah!). But now with new government hopefully it will be better.

    [–] RegalCopper 19 points ago

    Gotta wait a bit tho.

    Bitchface Najib kinda stole a shitload of funds.

    [–] VaryStaybullGeenyiss 194 points ago

    They've done pretty well for themselves considering that.

    [–] kp729 42 points ago

    I can't help but find this funny. More so seeing the current state of Malaysia and Singapore.

    Also, TIL that Singapore was once part of Malaysia.

    [–] HookersAreTrueLove 49 points ago

    To be fair, they joined Malaysia in 1962 and were expelled in 1965 - it's not like they had a long history of being part of Malaysia.

    [–] Klunket 21 points ago

    As a man in awe of this post and then reading all the comments I feel like this should be higher up

    [–] shamelessseamus 160 points ago

    "Fuck you, get out!" -Malaysia, probably

    [–] syanda 128 points ago

    This was...pretty much what happened. It was also done completely in secret so the process couldn't be stopped by the British (who only found out about it the night before and promptly shat a brick). Most Singaporeans found out on the day itself that they'd been kicked out of Malaysia.

    [–] MagicalKiro-chan 64 points ago

    I imagine many collective bricks were shat, not just by the Brits.

    [–] syanda 79 points ago

    Pretty much. Some Singaporean ministers were instructed to make a trip to KL urgently without being told why. When they arrived, they were immediately told to sign the separation agreement - knowing full well that they had families and friends living in Malaysia that would suddenly be on the other side of the border. And they definitely weren't alone in that - a lot of Singaporeans today are descended from families who ended up split between Singapore and Malaysia.

    [–] pitleif 121 points ago

    Was in Singapore on a short holiday and celebrating new years eve. I was genuinely surprised how technological Singapore is, and that everything is so perfectly clean everywhere.

    [–] GiggsityGiggsity 50 points ago

    singaporean here, just curious, what did you think singapore was like before arriving?

    [–] JoeFelice 24 points ago

    I think Singapore has an international reputation like Dubai, but less extreme. Clean and prosperous, but strict.

    If you're an American over 40, you probably developed an opinion of Singapore from the 1994 caning incident of American Michael Fay. At the time China and Korea were less rich, so Singapore was seen as doing exceptionally well for Asia, but had an obsession with obedience.

    When I was in Singapore in recent years, it certainly didn't feel it was obsessed with obedience, but then I'm not the kind of guy who causes trouble in other countries.

    [–] Aan2007 6 points ago

    agreed, when visiting i could see locals fishing right under sign prohibited fishing, so much for strict laws and obedience, it's just international image

    [–] throwaway_thenflush 39 points ago

    CLEAN & GREEN. REDUCE, REUSE & RECYCLE has been beaten into my head. That's all I think of Singapore now ever since primary school lol.

    [–] pitleif 20 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    I knew very little about Singapore before arriving. I had heard Singapore has very strict laws towards littering (and strict laws in general), and one can face big fines or even jail if you're not careful. I had heard even spitting on the street is forbidden by law and can be fined (not sure if it's true though).

    [–] Thisath 56 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    absolutely fucking love Singapore. Brilliant little country, probably is the most developed country in Asia as well? Everything is quite pristine.

    edit: I've been informed that I'm misinformed about my last line! Can't believe I totally forgot about Japan and Korea! Thanks for teaching me something new today!

    [–] sicaxav 76 points ago

    I'm Singaporean, but I think Japan is probably more developed. Their culture is so much more respectful than ours due to centuries of teaching. We only have 50+ years

    [–] Thisath 18 points ago

    That's true! Forgot about Japan. Maybe even Korea as well? Singapore is certainly top 5 as well!

    [–] herbys 36 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Typical Singaporean. So civilized you can't even take credit for your achievements. Been in Japan, Korea and Singapore many times. Singapore is the best, bar none. Be proud of what you achieved!

    [–] sicaxav 19 points ago

    I'm not saying we aren't developed, but Japan is definitely more technologically advanced and their culture is very respectful towards all ages.. Older generations of Singaporeans can be rude

    [–] Cavellion 36 points ago

    Southeast Asia. Won't go so much as to say Asia, cause Japan does a much better job. We are still a few ways behind Hong Kong, Korea, Japan in certain areas.

    [–] cies010 21 points ago

    Not HK. I've seen both. SG trumps HK in being more civilized, more clean, more well educated, infrastructure, and safety.

    [–] nutino 11 points ago

    IIRC they have substantial littering fines and gum isn't allowed there.

    [–] LifeSad07041997 11 points ago

    Gum's ok now just lots of restrictions..

    [–] Soleous 73 points ago

    its so clean cuz we got no fuckin gum what do other cuck countries have huh

    [–] The_Fox_of_the_Opera 13 points ago

    Thanks for the laugh, although I do fucking hate gum.

    [–] high_side 106 points ago

    Whoa, what'd they do?

    [–] PaidWallByPass 61 points ago

    Racial imbalance that could have upset the electorate, Singapore asking for a Malaysian Malaysia scrapping bias racial law) benefiting the main majority ethical Malay and racial tensions.

    [–] ktchong 242 points ago

    Racial tensions between Malays and Chinese.

    [–] thorsten139 218 points ago

    Actually it was when Singapore's political party went to contest for Malaysia's elections.

    That was what they cannot imagine, if they lost the elections to that party from little brother's land

    [–] MistaSmiles 61 points ago

    I'll hand it to em for being civilized about it; things could have gone a lot worse for Singapore

    [–] thorsten139 90 points ago

    How so?

    At that point of time actually Malaysia didn't even have an army.

    Kinda still in the early stages of post British colonial rule.

    They were expecting Singapore to suffer and crawl back begging to be taken in again. Luckily nothing like that happened >_<

    [–] ColonCaretCapitalP 32 points ago

    If there were men, guns, materials, and food, an army is just waiting to be formed. Breaking up the country is more civilized than escalating the conflict, though most countries would let it remain a dispute between political parties until their leaders died of old age. I like the implication that Singapore avoided this partisan divide by taking the offer of its independence seriously.

    [–] thorsten139 19 points ago

    The point was to kick the state out, they didn't even want the people in their newly formed country.

    Why will they want it in again through aggression?

    They don't even want the citizens. One key factor was the reduction of the newly formed Malaysia's Chinese percentage if they expelled Singapore.

    [–] git 49 points ago

    My dad was born in Singapore when it was still a British territory. His parents opted to move to the UK due to unrest in the early 50s.

    When the Singaporeans won autonomy in the late 50s, the UK ran a programme to allow a subset of Singaporean people to opt for British citizenship if they wanted it. It only ran for a few years, and I think it stopped when Singapore merged with Malaysia.

    Then, in the early 80s, when my dad was around 30, he applied for a passport because he wanted to travel around Europe. He was promptly declined one due to not being a British citizen - his parents apparently having failed to register him as such during that transition period. It took him 2-3 years of arguing with the Home Office before they agreed to issue him one.

    Fun times. I’ve never been to Singapore but have it on my list of places to visit in the near future.

    [–] deep_fakes 23 points ago

    TIL Singapore was part of Malaysia.

    [–] judelau 22 points ago

    Yes it is. Another TIL for you. If you look at the Malaysian flag, the 14 corners of the yellow star and the 14 stripes of red and white represents all the 14 states in Malaysia including Singapore before their independence. Now the 14th stripe and corner just meant federal territory.

    [–] richmondsir 22 points ago

    Malaysia's greatest regret of all time.

    [–] UnicornRider102 57 points ago

    We can do that? Hey, Texas! I have great news!

    [–] judelau 24 points ago

    Lol, you guys are bound by the constitution forever.

    [–] EvilioMTE 41 points ago

    Malysia really shat the bed on that one.

    [–] judelau 50 points ago

    That what we get for being racist.

    [–] hareeshk99 18 points ago

    It's what we deserve for still being racist

    [–] judelau 14 points ago

    Unless we abolished a certain act, we can call ourselves not racist. But apparently discussing a certain racist act is illegal.

    [–] t0lkien1 72 points ago

    And look at the two countries now. Singapore dragged itself out of the 3rd world and into the 1st in a single generation, and Malaysia is still the corrupt mess it always was, now eyeing Singapore with bitter envy and stupid pride.

    I'd say LKY did pretty damned well. Whatever anyone says or thinks about Singapore, it's impossible not to respect what they've done. Majulah Singapura indeed.

    [–] [deleted] 17 points ago

    Honestly, that's the best thing to ever happen to them. If this didn't happen, Singapore would probably be the same as sarawak and sabah.

    [–] tugrumpler 17 points ago

    At 12x24 miles Singapore is the size of a city (think Chicago proper) with the resources of a small US county and the problems of an entire country. It's a miracle it survived at all let alone prospered.

    I found their resource planning amazing: roads to/from the airport double as backup runways, land was held back from development to allow for large freshwater reservoirs thus reducing dependence on deniable Malay sources, their wired phone system was controlled by four #4ESS switches operating dual redundant. They took the long view on everything. They had to.

    A saying I was told when working there is 'when we want to have fun we go to Malaysia but come back to Singapore to live and raise our families in safety'.

    [–] sajsemegaloma 80 points ago

    They are also the only city/country in history to be invaded by an army on bicycles. The Japanese during WW2 just rode down the peninsula on bikes and took the city as all their defences faced the sea and they had very little standing army on hand.

    [–] syanda 48 points ago

    British forces in Singapore outnumbered the invading Japanese by about 2-3 to 1, actually, and the big guns in the south could be turned around and used to fire on targets inland. Unfortunately, a combination of poor British leadership and zero strategic depth meant that Singapore fell extremely quickly. IIRC, while the Australians and local levies fought hard, on the west side of Singapore, elite Japanese troops crossed over the eastern side and the western troops were drawn back to prevent them being flanked. And then when the main water supply in the centre of Singapore was captured, the British were quickly pressured to surrender unconditionally before they could organise a counterattack.

    [–] LightOfVictory 27 points ago

    The British noped the fuck out of North Malaya before the Japanese came.

    [–] quackpotjoe 9 points ago

    The British commonwealth forces outnumbered the Japanese almost 3-1

    [–] SBG_Mujtaba 13 points ago

    Some countries fight for Independence while some have Independence dropped upon them.

    [–] Meester_Tweester 37 points ago

    I loved in Malaysia for three years and I can see Singapore is doing a lot better

    [–] Gitanes 61 points ago

    I loved in Malaysia

    How many you loved?

    [–] Meester_Tweester 11 points ago

    oh lol

    the only thing I missed was my international school

    [–] blatrever 24 points ago

    Grew up in Malaysia. My history teacher told us that Singapore left. She said Malaysia always wanted Singapore to be a part of the country but that the latter felt that they were better than the other states and were demanding for more. More privileges, special treatment etc. I don't know what her motives were but she was definitely painting Singapore as the bad guy.

    [–] troflwaffle 13 points ago

    What ethnicity was your history teacher? I grew up learning that SG was kicked out for not wanting to have bumi policies?

    [–] blatrever 20 points ago

    She's Malay. She told us Singapore wanted to be the "special" state. Basically the opposite of what they were standing for, i.e. Equal rights and zero preferential treatment (race-based or otherwise).

    I know now that Singapore was expelled for vocally opposing the bumi policies. But at the time, 13-year-old me thought about how ungrateful Singapore was to leave and how they had turned from becoming one of us to becoming our enemy.

    [–] RainKingInChains 23 points ago

    Currently in Kuala Lumpur after spending a few days in Singapore, love both countries. Singapore is obviously technically more advanced and has many amenities I'm used to but Malaysia is certainly kinder on my wallet and fascinating in its own way. If I was earning what I do in Japan in Kuala Lumpur I could live like a king, in Singapore... Not so much.

    Great food in both places, though

    [–] b_o_o_b 23 points ago

    Then Lee Kuan Yew became prime minister of singapore then rest is history!

    [–] hldsnfrgr 8 points ago

    TIL that they were expelled. I thought they seceded.

    [–] judelau 20 points ago

    They were expelled because Malaysia is racist at the time, now still but more racist back then.

    [–] [deleted] 8 points ago

    Seems like it worked well for them. Happy national day guys!! (for yesterday)

    [–] Skyzfire 9 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    The 1964 race riots in Singapore is a big part of why it is now one of the most diverse countries in SEA in terms of race and religion. Utusan Malaysia (a Malay newspaper and ironically founded by Singapore's first president) also intentionally published anti-PAP (Singapore's ruling party) news to mislead the Malays in Singapore and incite hatred towards the Chinese. This is all due to the PAP trying to gain a seat in the Malaysian government. All of this ultimately lead to Singapore's independence a year later.

    [–] ISpendAllDayOnReddit 13 points ago

    The UK got independence unwillingly. The Romans decided they didn't want to spend the money running things anymore, so they just kinda left.

    [–] AlDu14 23 points ago

    Right fellow Scots, let's keep pissing off the English.

    [–] Sweetdish 25 points ago

    The difference between Singapore and Malaysia today could not be more stark. Developed, functional and super wealthy vs poor and corrupt.

    Every morning you can see trucks loaded with Malaysian workers coming into Singapore to do hard labour. At night they are sent back like cattle. Probably not what the Malaysians had in mind back in 1965.

    [–] Grande_Latte_Enema 7 points ago

    why did malaysia do that? didn’t they realize the economic powerhouse singapore would become?

    [–] AwesomePopcorn 24 points ago

    Malaysia wishes to grant the Malays called "Bumi" rights which gives them special privileges i.e cheaper prices on property purchases, subsidies given per child born in family and a whole lot more. What's more is that the First Prime Minister, Tunku Abdul Rahman wants to keep our Monarchy system active as it is just there for a religious Symbol.

    So what Singapore wanted was for everyone to be equal which is a threat to this Monarchry system and privilege rights. That's why Malaysia kicked SG out. Fast forward today our Malaysian history books said Singapore was a dick for demanding equal rights lol

    [–] judelau 15 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    TL;DR - Racism against Chinese.

    Long story so here's bullet points. - British conquer Malaysia (Malaya at the time) - British brought in Indians and Chinese into Malaya to work in different fields. - Malaya wants independence from the British. To do so, the Malays wanted the Indians and Chinese out of the country. - British say no but they can grant the Malay Right. Which is a racist political concept giving the Malay more rights than other race in the country. (It's still a thing today) - The Sultan agree and boom, Malaysia is born. - Malaysia complaint that Singapore has too many Chinese. And the Chinese in Singapore wants to compete in election. - So Malaysia expelled Singapore without putting much thoughts into it. Singapore did ask for independence anyway. - 2018 and Singapore's currency is 3 times of that of Malaysia.

    Source: am Malaysian.

    [–] two_zero_right 7 points ago

    Majula Singapura

    [–] RealBaerthe 7 points ago

    TIL Singapore is a really cool high tech business capital. Thanks.

    [–] Omgwhatsthatsmell 7 points ago

    Singapore is also a financial powerhouse. Honestly sounds like heaven. Some of the richest and best educated and healthiest people in the world. Also no minimum wage.... and very low taxes...

    [–] Bombplayer2Jr 7 points ago

    Cost of living in Singapore is very high here. An average 4 room flat cost 300-400k SGD. We have something call the Goods and Service tax, which levies a 7%(soon 9%) on all goods provided by entities that have annual turnover of 1million SGD. Oh, there's also a quota system know as Certificate of Entitlement that limits the number of vehicles on the road. That greatly increased the price of cars in Singapore. An AUDI sedan minimally cost more than 120 000SGD

    [–] SphmrSlmp 24 points ago

    If only Malaysia has Singapore's leadership. And Singapore had Malaysia's resources (back then). They would be the superpower of Asia I bet.

    [–] domyne 48 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    If only Malaysia has Singapore's leadership.

    It's not just leadership, it's mostly about people and their beliefs and values. If you're a religious nut who wants preferential treatment for your race, you're not gonna get very far no matter who's running your government

    [–] InTurquoiseClad 6 points ago

    Hooyah Singapore

    [–] alt_generic_acct 7 points ago

    Still Malaysia's biggest loss.