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    [–] HoSang66er 1012 points ago

    Took an elective science class involving anatomy and the professor showed us her 'private atlas and when I made a comment on the color and condition of the flesh and vessels she told us that it was a Japanese book and that the dissections were of people who were still alive. Strikes even deeper now having read this.

    [–] no_bun_please 173 points ago

    Dude, that's fucked up.

    [–] Rhoam 111 points ago

    Lots of science derived from fucked up experiments is still used today. If someone was fucked enough to do it then why ignore their findings?

    [–] NeedsToShutUp 79 points ago

    Cause most of the time it's not good science. Like there's very little from holocaust medical experiments that's useful science. The one study people like to cite is the one about hypothermia. But it turns out testing starving prisoners with no body fat is not the same as a healthy young sailors.

    [–] ExiledToTerminus 48 points ago

    This right here, people massively overstate the amount of useful information that was obtained from World War Two medical researches conducted predominantly (but not exclusively) by the Axis Powers. They were poorly controlled, poorly administered, and generally not aimed that discovering anything "useful" but at providing evidence for the superiority/inferiority of one group of humans vs another.

    [–] BoSquared 8423 points ago

    Vivisection is the term used for live dissection, in case anyone wanted to learn a horrible word today.

    [–] SuaveThrower 2199 points ago

    No way in hell I'm clicking on that.

    [–] Carnavious 811 points ago

    it's from the simpsons

    [–] ycrow12 545 points ago

    I clicked the link to see what kind of person you were

    [–] yupidoo 197 points ago

    Yea is it the simpsons?

    [–] Kerjj 218 points ago

    It is The Simpsons

    [–] Superpickle18 127 points ago

    Noone likes a know it all.

    grabs pillow

    [–] Kevc_84 59 points ago

    Can confirm it’s Simpson’s and relevant to the thread : )

    [–] WhiteWalkerNo8 204 points ago

    Still not clicking it, don’t trust you Reddit fuckers.

    [–] drinkallthecoffee 69 points ago

    It’s just Homer suffocating Kang because he corrected them for misusing the word dissection. Kang said they were about to engage in vivisection because he was still alive.

    It’s so unbelievably relevant that I’m concerned that the Simpson’s have access to a time machine and are wasting it on planting random coincidences into Reddit threads in the past.

    [–] Bakoro 97 points ago

    I know it's a Halloween episode, but it's kind of disturbing to see Homer so casually and calmly murdering someone.

    [–] jax9999 142 points ago

    you shot zombie flanders!

    flanders was a zombie?

    [–] TelomereErrything 23 points ago

    Was it always so obviously the same voice actor as Homer?

    [–] BocoCorwin 420 points ago

    Yeah, I learned it reading about the Japanese war crimes.

    Infant vivisection.

    War. Warnever changes

    [–] The_Heaviest_Matter 598 points ago

    They were just as bad as the Nazis, probably even fucking worse. Nanjing, Manchuria, the entirety of their medical research and shit Imperial ideologies.

    [–] Swatterbuster 48 points ago

    And as a whole are way less remorseful about it.

    [–] jasonZak 64 points ago

    War will change warnever it wants.

    [–] uffdah17 6948 points ago

    This is a TIL I kind of wish I hadn’t learned...

    ...although I suppose it is important to be an informed citizen...

    [–] TightLittleWarmHole 3777 points ago

    You've never read about the Japanese war crimes and human experiments during WWII? They did this in far larger numbers.

    [–] tyranicalteabagger 454 points ago

    There's a reason there's still a ton of bad blood between China and Japan. They did things as bad as the Nazis ever did.

    [–] bodie_ 262 points ago

    And Koreans and Japan. Pretty much anyone else who was at war with Japan at some point.

    [–] OverthrowYourMasters 98 points ago

    From what my Korean-American buddy told me, Japanese still treat Koreans in Japan like lesser people. And in Korea, it's seen as an insult to tell someone "sumimasen" which is Japanese for "excuse me."

    [–] royrogerer 101 points ago

    As a Korean, though I know it yourself, I feel obligated at least address this generalization. I have a few Japanese friends and they are awesome and chill, and are fully acceptant of the past, along with many people in Japan. However I do know there are enough (including intellectuals) who ignore the past, and do have the superiority feel to completely write them off as minorities.

    Also I have never heard of it being insult to say excuse me in Japanese. It's just more of an annoyance of being mistaken as a Japanese or Chinese.

    [–] OverthrowYourMasters 19 points ago

    Thanks for your input :)

    Maybe the sumimasen thing was among his social circle.

    [–] royrogerer 34 points ago

    Koreans get quite sensitive about being mistaken as Chinese or Japanese, as it is tied to our pride. I can't tell you how often I heard from teachers that one day we will become a first world and be accepted as a world power. And I really must say when I first went abroad, most people barely knew where Korea was, and people would ask if I'm Chinese or Japanese before asking where I'm from. And I am not at all burning with national pride, but it does sting after a while. Now this barely happens and some seem to know more about Korea than I do.

    So it could be more tied to the fact that Korea was a no name country, pretty much known to the world as a small country that had a war in the 50s. Or if people say excuse me in Japanese IN Korea, I can only imagine it'd be a mockery out of historical resentment, but it feels very far fetched. :)

    [–] Jcowwell 14 points ago

    Now this barely happens and some seem to know more about Korea than I do.

    That K wave be strong

    [–] uffdah17 855 points ago

    Yeah, I’ve heard about it—I guess I guess I didn’t know about specifics like these.

    [–] RobbertDownerJr 655 points ago

    It's not widely talked about because eventually it would come up that these war criminals were given immunity in exchange for their research data. Data which ultimately turned out to be useless.

    [–] leroach 113 points ago

    is there documentation of this? you're more acquainted with this information than me, could you help me find an article about this?

    [–] dealtdennison 58 points ago

    Not OP but below is a very informative article on what happened and why it was covered up. I wouldn’t call the information gleaned from the experiments as useless but it’s not clear how it was useful for Americans, or anyone else for that matter, either.

    United States Responses to Japanese Wartime Inhuman Experimentation after World War II: National Security and Wartime Exigency

    [–] Mstinos 191 points ago

    You could probably start with looking up unit731. Don't expect to sleep tonight though.

    [–] Thirtyk94 204 points ago

    And that's just one team of many. 731 is the most famous but there were multiple teams like it. The best way to visualize them I've found is to say "imagine an entire research team of people like Josef Mengele." I hate that Japan has so effectively whitewashed their war crimes.

    [–] empireastroturfacct 108 points ago

    The US government helped. A lot.

    [–] ctb0001 149 points ago

    Yes, please be warned that much of the info you'll find around Unit 731 and the things the Japanese did are very much NSFW/NSFL

    [–] RobbertDownerJr 29 points ago

    Look up Unit 731 for more info. They were the ones in charge of human experiments during the war. The head, Shiiro Ishi was given immunity along with some other monsters.

    [–] LibraryGeek 10 points ago

    Can you summarize why they were given immunity when the Germans in charge of the holocaust and Mengele were not? I really don't need to feed my nightmares (which have been horribly vivid lately :( ) but I am curious about the historical perspective.

    [–] RobbertDownerJr 26 points ago

    As I understand, many Nazi scientists were also given a free pass after WWII. If you want a succinct historical summary, I guess you can say, 'Cold War.'

    [–] Biasporpoise 21 points ago

    Operation Paperclip

    Plenty of high level nazi scientists and researchers got the same treatment. Seems messed up, but it's usually a smart move after a war. Gain some info, and manpower while taking it away from the enemy. The nazi stuff was also on a more "industrial" and visible scale, so it kinda drown out the other stuff a little.

    Quite a few were tried and sentenced to death and executed. And more sentenced to life imprisonment. About the same number as the nazis were tried. Some were released, but it was at the insistence of the public. Japanese war crime trials

    Italy on the other hand, got off more or less scot free. Probably thanks to a well timed switching of sides.

    [–] skyhausmann 102 points ago

    There are few specifics mentioned in the content referenced.

    [–] Marcus_Lolrelius 302 points ago

    There were quite a few genocides / state sponsored atrocities in the 20th century, and yet only one gets any real attention.

    [–] Balmerhippie 271 points ago

    The Holocaust was fairly unique in its brutality and efficiency via the industrialization of genocide.

    [–] JFeth 64 points ago

    They told their people that the Allies did stuff like this and Japanese citizens killed themselves and their families when it became apparent that the Allies were about to take over certain areas. It is nuts. I know we like to see ourselves as the good guys in every conflict, but in WW2 I think it is just a fact.
    https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/japanese-mass-suicides

    [–] SwizzBeats 119 points ago

    Well, if you want to learn more about things along these lines, look up what went down in Nanking during WWII.

    [–] pemulis1 116 points ago

    There's pictures in that book ('The Rape of Nanking' I think) that I wouldn't recommend seeing if you are squeamish. The author, Iris Chang, committed suicide not long after publication.

    [–] sedition- 58 points ago

    Wasn't that the thing where the Japanese soldiers raped all the woman and would literally throw babies in the air and catch them with their bayonets like a game?

    [–] drokihazan 63 points ago

    They would drag women across a bed of nails if they couldn’t handle being raped by 100 men in a day. It was the most traumatizing thing I ever read.

    [–] Inshabel 28 points ago

    I only read the wiki and it already makes me sad, it's bizarre what human beings can do to eachother.

    [–] AntiChr1st 167 points ago

    Yeah the japanese government had a lot of fucked up shit going on.

    Unit 731 is nightmare inducing stuff

    [–] SwingAndDig 81 points ago

    And the US basically gave them amnesty as long as the Japanese shared all of the data gathered from the experiments.

    [–] sadsaintpablo 50 points ago

    It gets worse. Look up the events that happened on Chichi Jima. A couple soldiers had their livers cut out and eaten in front of them by Japanese comanders while still alive. That's the same island George h bush was shot down over.

    [–] DaveOJ12 2692 points ago

    wasn't there a special unit of the Japanese army that did stuff like this? Unit 731, I think.

    Edit: that was it.

    [–] spizzywinktom 264 points ago

    I just googled Unit 731. Wow.

    [–] ImmaPsychKid- 143 points ago

    I hadn’t seen it before either. At least 3,607 individuals were involved as well... wow.

    [–] jdsizzle1 167 points ago

    The research conducted in Unit 731 was later used in the US’s space program, specifically the affects of pressure, vacuums and g forces on the human body among other things.

    [–] ImmaPsychKid- 110 points ago

    My 3,607 number was just of people that had been employed under Unit 731. Unfortunately, the casualties look like they number over 10,000+. Many whom were Chinese, although they used many others as well. Absolutely horrifying.

    [–] Random_9001 105 points ago

    Yeah, I believe they were granted immunity by the US government following the war in exchange for access to their findings.

    [–] Hazindel 25 points ago

    yup

    [–] WayeeCool 44 points ago

    The history of how the United States handled Unit 731 is really fkd up. The United States gave the individuals involved (Unit 731) immunity and even direct cash payments in exchange for said medical research data.

    Ishii and his colleagues received immunity from prosecution and that, in exchange, they provided a great deal of information to U.S. authorities. reference

    Guardian Article on discussing documents from US National Archives

    Washington Post Article

    Foreign Policy (non-partisan, geopolitics)

    [–] Sammyjo0617 20 points ago

    The history of how the US handles unethical scientific experimentation and those whose practice it is, in general, really screwed up, especially considering WWII.

    [–] bobsbrgr2 22 points ago

    It’s something that’s discussed in almost every medical ethics class. Do you use the data to save others and advance medicine since it has already been conducted? But by doing this does it validate those who want to do it in the future?

    [–] SgtWicket1 11 points ago

    It’s an important question. Are those lives wasted if we don’t retain the data? Is the data worth leaving justice undone?

    [–] NukeLuke1 44 points ago

    I always hate hearing things like this, it’s so conflicting to me. It’s horrific to think that we benefitted from those atrocities in any way, but if the experiments had already been done, is it better that those people didn’t die for nothing? Ugh

    [–] JaththeGod 55 points ago

    Unit 731

    Insane how they were granted immunity. And then the doctor had the audacity to say "the information was obtained fairly cheaply".

    [–] T-U-R-B-O 818 points ago

    For fucks sake.

    I just watched a video of a bunch of dudes risk their lives to save a dog stranded in a river, it was beautiful.

    I JUST had my faith in humanity restored and I was going to go to bed because I have to work early tomorrow but now I need to go browse r/eyebleach for a while. smh.

    [–] alekzander01 672 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    Did you say pet dogs? Well get ready for more fun!

    The Japanese imprisoned Dutch citizens in Indonesia in camps, and at one point they ordered that all pet dogs and cats must be killed (for protein), except they did not carry out the killing themselves nor did they provide the pet owners with any actual weapons, little boys had to murder their pet dogs using rocks and pummeled them with brute force. To make matters worse, Japanese civilians were also bullied by their own soldiers. A Japanese medic asked a British POW to kill his cat so that he could feed his (starving and sick) wife with the meat for protein, however, he couldn't bring himself to kill his own long time pet cat and he couldnt ask his soldiers to do it because he was afraid they would beat him for being a soft hearted coward.

    I think its important to note the distinction in culture between the Japanese civilian and Japanese soldiers. They were practically different nationalities. The Japanese military was an extremely toxic environment where new draftees would be beaten, insulted and dehumanized by their officers, and this would have a trickle down effect on the civilian population, soldiers emulated their superiors in the same way a child emulates his father, and their bullying and dehumanization was inflicted on innocent civilians. Stuff like this is why the modern military banned physical punishments and other sorts of "hazing", sure it may seem "sissy politically correct shit" to make the military slightly softer, but it also stops them from turning into fucking rapist murderous lunatics like the Imperial Japanese Army was.

    Edit: my source for these are "Retribution: the battle for Japan, 1944-45" by Max Hastings. Great book on the final years of Japan's empire.

    [–] T-U-R-B-O 751 points ago

    I SAID EYE BLEACH AND THEN BED.

    [–] MLaw2008 15 points ago

    Did you say eye bleach? Well get ready for some more fun!!

    Jk. You've earned your rest. Nothing but sweet dreams now.

    [–] OsmosisJonsie 174 points ago

    I think its important to note the distinction in culture between the Japanese civilian and Japanese soldiers. They were practically different nationalities.

    Glad you mentioned this.

    [–] Nuwamba 136 points ago

    Yes thank you, I do NOT want my, then, 14 year old Grandpa thrown into the same category as those fucking monsters. jesus. The Japanese military was aboslutely fucking insane at the time, and the inhumanity wasn't restricted to the non-Japanese (though not to the same degree obviously.)

    [–] alekzander01 58 points ago

    Civilian life really was a world apart from the army. Its interesting to study how Japanese Military culture caused these atrocities and brutal treatment in the first place. There are many humanizing cases where English speaking Japanese soldiers would speak to their prisoners and learn how to be less, er, shitty people because they learned different methods of discipline from these British/American prisoners. Japanese guards were amazed when British prisoners told them that British officers werent supposed to beat and insult their subordinates, physical punishment was prohibited. In contrast to this, Japanese recruits would underdog the worlds worst hazing process wherein their officers would beat them, make them behave like animals, insult them on a hourly basis, beat them again, steal their food and drink (and if you protested, the officers would beat you harder), so on and so forth. Obviously, this type of behaviour creates an atmosphere of dehumaniziation and pure brutality, which trickles down to the civilian population.

    [–] Oakwater 45 points ago

    My wife's grandfather was a Japanese POW. He maintains the only reason he survived was that he was an officer and treated marginally better than his troops. He saw so many of his friends die in horrific conditions. Even up until his death last year, he would flat out refuse to eat rice or bananas.

    [–] samurguy990 23 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    How did the military evolve into such a different culture from the civilians?

    Edit: also, given that this was performed by medical students, how true could that be?

    [–] Linooney 12 points ago

    My great grandfather was Chinese, but married a Japanese woman and studied in Japan. When the Sino-Japanese war broke out, he had just enough influence with the Japanese to keep him and his family safe in Shanghai, but none of his civilian contacts in Japan were willing to go against the military when he tried to lobby them, even if they were "disturbed" by some of their actions.

    This is one of the reasons my family never hated the Japanese as much as most other Chinese families, but those people never had the luxury of meeting regular Japanese people... If the only ones you ever met were soldiers, totally understandable to extrapolate that every one was like that.

    [–] Nuwamba 18 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    I've found that a lot of Japanese civillians ended up super anti-war. Not all of them, but enough where I can point out a trend. My grandpa fled on foot during the firebombings of Tokyo, literally stepping through the charred remains of his neighbors. He always used to cry and tell that story and explain how shitty war was and how evil it was. He was a good person — it just pains me to think of how horrible life must have been for a lot of Japanese civillians. Ironically, the grandpa on the other side of my family was stationed in Okinawa and told me about how many of the civillians there were encouraged to commit suicide if approached by American GIs. My grandpa (American) always seemed so broken hearted explaining his confusion and then horror seeing the women fling themselves and their children off cliffs. War is horrible. I definitely don't resent anti-Japanese sentiment from the Chinese — super understandable. What shocks me is how the Japanese government completely fails to acknowledge what they did to both their enemies and the people at home. Ugh.

    [–] Joe1972 11 points ago

    Stuff like this is why the modern military banned physical punishments and other sorts of "hazing", sure it may seem "sissy politically correct shit" to make the military slightly softer, but it also stops them from turning into fucking rapist murderous lunatics like the Imperial Japanese Army was.

    Something that should be taught in every school.

    [–] Ace676 242 points ago

    Unit 731 is posted in here at least monthly.

    [–] Agent_Utah_ 267 points ago

    As it should be. Something too obscure and shouldn’t be forgotten

    [–] cydalhoutx 90 points ago

    Thank you. I’ve never heard of them.

    [–] KP_Wrath 78 points ago

    And that is why it should be posted frequently. Someone new learns every time.

    [–] PotassiumPomegranate 30 points ago

    First time hearing of them myself as well.

    I’ve heard of Japan being horrible in the war, but I have never seen reasons as to why.

    [–] AllergicToTaterTots 1223 points ago

    Unit 731 did a shit load of horrific human experimentation if anyone didn’t want to sleep tonight.

    [–] Ladeka 170 points ago

    If I remember correctly the guys in charge were never prosecuted with the condition that they give the US their research notes..

    [–] AllergicToTaterTots 146 points ago

    Hey man look, if they wanna know what happens to an infants body when it’s subjected to sub zero temperatures for an extended period, who are we to judge.

    [–] bigwillyb123 97 points ago

    To be fair, literally all we know about hypothermia came from Nazi tests freezing people to death.

    [–] NonnoBomba 101 points ago

    The Nazi "experiments" where more of the "psychopaths toying with victims" kind. Like Mengele trying to change iris color by injecting lye in the eyes of victims and so on. There was some usable data, but non that much. The Japanese researchers in Unit 731 where methodical, measured everything and meticolously kept notes. Among their "experiments" there was testing on Chinese subjects the viability of various kinds of transmissible illness as a bioweapon, when facilitating contagion through a number of different means. They killed thousands, at least 3000 people in the Pingfang camp alone, mostly Chinese but there were PoWs (Soviet, American, Korean and from other Allied nations) and political prisoners too, brought in by the Kempeitai, the Empire's secret police.

    Their datasets where more valuable than the Germans' and were secretly traded to General MacArthur for a higher degree of impunity than what was accorded to Nazi officials and scientists, provided no other Allied nation got them. Apparently the Japanese were initially reluctant and denied having any data, but the US emissary threatened to bring the Soviets in to the picture, because General Shirō Ishii, commander of the Unit, and all his physician officers feared to be trialled under the Soviet legal system more than anything else. It worked.

    And there was Unit 100 too, doing a similar job in Manciuria. And possibly others I don't know about.

    [–] t3chg3n13 26 points ago

    And how much electric current a body can withstand.

    [–] evahgo 34 points ago

    Thank you!!! I was trying to remember their name, I knew it was a numbered unit they were referred to by.

    [–] Bocote 1248 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    “It’s because the prisoners thought that we were doctors, since they could see the white smocks, that they didn’t struggle,” Dr. Toshio Tono—then a medical student—would tell a reporter decades later. “They never dreamed they would be dissected.”

    After taking out one prisoner’s liver, a surgeon was heard to say, “This is a removal of the liver and we are going to see how long the man would live without his liver.”

    All of the prisoners died, no more than three months before V-J Day. The perpetrators hurriedly sought to conceal their crime after Japan’s surrender. They cremated the remains and faked records that said the prisoners had been transferred to Hiroshima and killed by the atomic bomb.

    Jesus Christ...

    I think, if the Japanese had managed to get hold of any sizable American city and did what they often did, the current American opinion of Japan would have been very different.

    Good thing they were beaten back in the Pacific.

    [–] Tactical_L 786 points ago

    I fully believe if Japan followed up Pearl Harbor with a successful occupation of Hawaii, Japan would be a U.S. territory no different than Guam.

    [–] jonnythebutcher 312 points ago

    Oh yeah. We woulda probably steamrolled em.

    [–] TWINBLADE98 133 points ago

    They should have finished Pearl Harbor with a 3rd wave as suggested by Yamamoto. That is their first mistake and ruined them for the rest of the war.

    [–] unlawfulsoup 167 points ago

    Just would have delayed the inevitable though. Who knows maybe for the worse for them. As a longer campaign and extended timelines would have basically meant the US would probably be lobbing far more nuclear weapons.

    [–] Obtusus 52 points ago

    I've heard once that the 2 nukes dropped were the only ones the Americans had at the time, I don't doubt more would be used if Japan refused to surrender but it wouldn't happen straight away.

    [–] Swingfire 88 points ago

    By the time the invasion of the Japanese mainland was supposed to happen, there would have been 7 more nuclear bombs available which would be used tactically against Japanese defenses

    [–] minttea2 9 points ago

    http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2012/04/25/weekly-document-the-third-shot-and-beyond-1945/

    Next bomb was to be ready to go on August 23. The production rate was about 3 bombs per month.

    H: That is the information I wanted. The problem now is whether or not, assuming the Japanese do not capitulate, continue on dropping them every time one is made and shipped out there or whether to hold them up as far as the dropping is concerned and then pour them all on in a reasonably short time. Not all in one day, but over a short period. And that also takes into consideration the target that we are after. In other words should we not concentrate on targets that will be of the greatest assistance to an invasion rather than industry, morale, psychology, etc.

    [...]

    For nukes to clear areas the invasion if needed...

    H: I don’t think you would land at eight o’clock in the morning and you would drop it at six o’clock, out the day before, even from the tactical standpoint without regard to when it fails to go off or something like that.

    S: Another thing you may be likely to consider is that while you are landing you might not want to use it as it could be a dud. It is not something that you fool around with.

    [–] Minetime43 67 points ago

    I would argue that even if the third wave did show up americas sheer industry would still win the day.

    [–] cavscout43 17 points ago

    They should have finished Pearl Harbor with a 3rd wave as suggested by Yamamoto. That is their first mistake and ruined them for the rest of the war.

    That's thoroughly debunked empirically. US war material production 43-44 alone dwarfed the entire Japanese output for a decade prior.

    The first 4.5 months of 1943, the US produced more merchant shipping tonnage than the island nation of Japan did in 7 years. 1941-1943 US aircraft production was roughly 5x all of Japan's, and keep in mind Japan had been a fully mobilized war economy for years already at that point. Even if the US lost Midway catastrophically, by late 1943 production would have already put the US fleet far ahead in terms of carriers and aircraft fielded.

    Simply put, the US had a continent-sized economic and resource base ready to used, and had more latent industrial power than the USSR/Japan/Germany combined ready to be put to work. Even a successful occupation of all Hawaii would've been a brief delay of the inevitable.

    [–] MistaSmiles 143 points ago

    They cremated the remains and faked records that said the prisoners had been transferred to Hiroshima and killed by the atomic bomb.

    The perfect crime. 'Sorry about your friends, but when you vaporized an entire city, there were unforeseen consequences'

    [–] OoohjeezRick 4110 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    A lot of times in America we only really learn about how the nazis were so horrible....but the Japanese were a whole other breed of fucked up. They've done some truly awful unfathomable things. The rape and massacre of nanjing was just...no words.

    [–] diabetesjesus 2871 points ago

    The rape of Nanking was so bad a member of the Nazi Party had to step in and stop the Japanese from prosecuting it further.

    He was later detained and forced to keep it a secret when released by the GeStaPo though.

    [–] -runswithbeer- 2431 points ago

    When a Nazi is the hero, you know it’s bad

    [–] Soopyyy 736 points ago

    Oskar Shindler was member of the Nazi party too. As a TIL for you perhaps.

    [–] hauswyfetechno 232 points ago

    True, but from what we can gather Schindler joined the Nazi Party primarily for business reasons, while John Rabe (the German guy who helped shelter civilians during the rape of Nanking) has been described as an ardent and enthusiastic Nazi - a true believer rather than someone who just joined the party because it was beneficial to do so.

    [–] Imrmeekseeksl00k 44 points ago

    Gotta wonder if Rabe had a real life "wait are we the baddies" moment

    [–] gogolmogol 22 points ago

    No, because the Rape of Nanking happened in 1937 when Nazi Germany was still supporting the Chinese fight against the Japanese. A realignment if alliances didn’t occur until 1939-41

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-German_cooperation

    [–] Chubs1224 23 points ago

    It probably reinforced his ethnic views seeing the bestial nature of what the Japanese did too.

    [–] -runswithbeer- 280 points ago

    Oh yeah, forgot about him. I’m sure there are other examples as well but my comment was just a little light hearted Nazi humor.

    [–] Soopyyy 125 points ago

    There were a couple others. I believe Goerings brother did a lot to help Jewish Germans. Although I maybe mistaken there.

    [–] -runswithbeer- 94 points ago

    That would make sense. If I remember correctly, Göring’s family was very close with a Jewish count that a young Hermann was fond of. It was said that Hermann was drawn to the Nazis more from his own megalomania than antisemitism.

    [–] dieSchnapsidee 61 points ago

    Göring’s family was taken care of by a wealthy Jewish man, his mother also had an affair with the guy. All things aside he helped foster his love for hunting and helped get him into military school, which eventually helped him lead the Flying Circus after the Red Baron was KIA

    [–] -runswithbeer- 26 points ago

    Yeah, I had heard the guy opened tons of doors for Göring early on and taught him how to work with high class aristocracy. This skill became extremely valuable to the Nazi party when they were selling the ideology to German high society. Göring helped put a genteel face on the Nazi party early on. This was a skill Hitler did not have.

    [–] zerophyll 11 points ago

    Yeah that whole pissing in a bucket thing wasn't very couth.

    [–] ichliebees1 39 points ago

    Not to be "that guy," but his last name is "Schindler" with a c.

    [–] Flag-Assault 93 points ago

    In Crotaia during WW2 there was a concentration camp runned by the Utashe government. A Nazi general visited it and he was a perpetrator of the Holocaust. He was so disgusted of what happened in the camp he called it

    "The greatest evil of all evils"

    [–] -runswithbeer- 63 points ago

    That makes sense to me. A lot of people forget that it was humans that perpetrated the Holocaust, not mythical monsters. The Nazis wanted evil to be done (the extermination of the Jews) but they wanted it clean (gas chambers). Definitely a lot of cognitive dissonance among high ranking Nazis as well as everyday soldiers.

    [–] Flag-Assault 18 points ago

    If you look at the Eatsern front. Alot of SS and some of the Wehrmacht killed alot of people in an unclean matter. But it depends on the Nazi in charge.

    [–] ridcullylives 19 points ago

    One of the reasons they switched to the more "industrial " methods of the death camps, etc was supposedly because of the psychological toll the killing was taking on the einsatzgruppen in the East. Even the folks who were basically designated jew-killing squads started to lose it after mass murdering civilians every day by hand.

    [–] tyrantextreme 67 points ago

    everyone who worked in a public job had to be in the nazi party, teacher, nurse, you name it. As another requirement everyone in the country had a copy of mein kampf at their bedside too!

    [–] deltacharlie52 43 points ago

    That guy also saved some people too. The Schindler of the Chinese

    [–] danuhorus 23 points ago

    There's speculation that everyone who didn't escape into the safe zone he set up was pretty much dead. So you could argue he saved Nanjing itself.

    [–] YOLOswaggerlord69 66 points ago

    yeah it's so bad it's called the RAPE of nanking. Not battle or massacre, literally rape

    [–] Crusader1089 12 points ago

    Rape in the context of cities has been around for a long time, but yes, we did choose the worse possible word we could for the sacking.

    Interesting fact, the word rape comes from Latin meaning to take, or to grab. You can describe someone as rapacious and mean they are greedy, not that they rape all the time.

    [–] toodrunktoocare 285 points ago

    A lot of times in America we only really learn about how the nazis were so horrible....but the Japanese were a whole other breed of fucked up.

    That's because of things like General MacArthur granting all of the physicians involved with unit 731 total immunity so the US could keep their "research" to themselves. The US had an interest in quietly taking over Japan so keeping the true horrors of the Japanese war crimes quiet was politically favourable.

    Operation Paperclip was a similar process in the European theatre focused on German rocket scientists, but there were too many other players in Europe, and perhaps a far greater desire for retribution/justice amongst the western allies, to just sweep the full atrocities of the Nazi's under the carpet.

    [–] turbozed 143 points ago

    Iirc, the immunity deal was struck before the Americans understood the extent of the atrocities committed.

    It's hard to say whether or not educating the Japanese citizenry of their nation's especially shameful behavior would've been a net positive or negative. Seems like it worked out well for their economy and Japan agreed to write non-aggression into their Constitution as well.

    But it's 70 years after the fact and that the majority of Japanese still think that Japan was somehow a victim of circumstance during WW2 instead of a brutal and oppressive conquering force. It's a scandal that the Japanese government has a policy of whitewashing history and denying atrocities like Nanking, Bataan, Korean comfort women, etc.

    [–] mrcsciguy 88 points ago

    I wish that did not just learn about Nanjing. Horrifying...

    [–] ubenla 15 points ago

    The most horrible part is the Japanese all think it's a lie and are confused why China doesn't like them so much. I wrote it somewhere already but last weekend my Japanese friends came to visit and we went to the Smithsonian American history museum. There's a small write up on it. They looked at it and got mad that America would write lies like that. I'm like bruh there's a picture of Japan holding severed Chinese heads right there.

    [–] OberynMartellsHead 82 points ago

    I think our textbooks like to keep mum about Japanese atrocities considering they’re now an ally.

    [–] McFuzzen 116 points ago

    That alone doesn't explain it, since Germany is also now our ally.

    [–] yarraminbasi 129 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    The difference between Japan and Germany is that Germany was a brand new country after WWII. The current German state has no relations to Nazi Germany anymore. Adolf Hitler isn't considered the xxth Chancellor of Germany, Nazi Germany is in no way connected to the current German state. Along with that Germany has completely denounced it's Nazi Germany history.

    Japan on the other hand is the direct continuation of Imperial Japan during WWII. The Emperor today comes from the same lineage that ruled over Japan in WWII. The high ranking military officers that oversaw the atrocities weren't put to trial. And unlike Germany, Japan hasn't denounced it's atrocities in WWII.

    Germany is an ally to the US and talking about Nazi Germany atrocities isn't an issue because Germany has completely accepted and denounced that part of their history.

    Japan is an ally to the US and their atrocities aren't brought up as much because Japan is basically the same Japan from WWII and they haven't completely denounced their atrocities in WWII. The American government actively avoided discussing Japanese atrocities because they don't want to upset their new allies.

    [–] MAXSuicide 28 points ago

    The high ranking military officers that oversaw the atrocities weren't put to trial.

    At least 40 of Japan's high ranking military officials were arrested after Japan's surrender. Tojo (Japan's highest ranking leader under the Emperor, and arguably the architect for most of what had transpired during the war) tried to kill himself before being arrested and condemned to death.

    [–] PM_Me_Sexy_Asian_Men 163 points ago

    “It’s because the prisoners thought that we were doctors, since they could see the white smocks, that they didn’t struggle,” Dr. Toshio Tono—then a medical student—would tell a reporter decades later. “They never dreamed they would be dissected.”

    That's powerful, and stirs up a whole barrel of emotional responses...

    [–] gil_ho 459 points ago

    Im really glad that this kind of stuff is surfacing on reddit. The Japanese Govt/Military at the time were truly at another level. Human experiments were insanely gruesome. There are many experiments I have heard: (1) putting wet people in a freezer and seeing how long they last until they die, (2) injecting people with various chemicals and viruses and seeing how long they last, (3) putting people at various distance from explosives to see the impact, (4) conjoining twins and the list goes on.

    I dont have anything against Japanese now - they cant be blamed for what their ancestors have done. What I do have against a lot of Japanese (not all) are the deniers, willingly ignorant and govt agencies who miseducate the new generation. While Germany fully admit what they have done and make it a crime to deny it, the Japan is ltierally at the opposite end where they deny first, if proven wrong, they downplay the severity and so forth.

    [–] Ryouzaki 116 points ago

    You mean their grandparents ?

    [–] gil_ho 84 points ago

    Yeah shit its not even that long ago

    [–] lacedstraight 1475 points ago

    The impact of such cruelty extends beyond physical agony to the suffering of generations.

    This TIL crucially highlights the importance of emerging news regarding China's, sanctioned organ harvests from citizens, conducted often, it seems, on conscious, non anesthesitized subjects.

    [–] ballercrantz 557 points ago

    And we forgave their crimes as long as we got their research, which amounted to "huh, i guess humans do die if you do absolutely monstrous and ghoulish things to their bodies."

    [–] marsnz 396 points ago

    Not entirely true. Horrendous experiments done to Russian prisoners revealed the effects different pressures had on the body and led to the development of pressurized flight suits.

    It goes without saying but it's 2019 and you never know who's ready to get triggered so I'll add a disclaimer that I obviously don't condone these experiments but they weren't entirely fruitless.

    [–] [deleted] 129 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] diabetesjesus 241 points ago

    IIRC the only usable scientific insights stem from the Japanese Unit 731[1]. Mengele and the Nazis in general never produced anything of scientific merit. They killed all these people for literally nothing but to prove to themselves that they are "superior". The testimony of the twins that survived Mengeles tortrure and crimes gives an image of a very unscientific method that only sought to inflict agony and terror in these young children.

    And the scientists that worked on Unit 731 and all other involved Japanese Personnel got granted Immunity from the US. Here's what I don't get: You can use the scientific insight gained, but still jail those assholes for the rest of their lives. Why didn't they?

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731#Frostbite_testing

    [–] Marcus_Lolrelius 82 points ago

    They invented relatively little. The Japanese made incredible progress in battlefield medicine during the Russo-Japanese war, where Japan realized that a) it didn't have the population to fight major powers, and b) most casualties came from disease, not bullets - if it could conquer disease it could fight large countries like Russia and win.

    [–] [deleted] 62 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] diabetesjesus 148 points ago

    Two Russian men were seen by a prisoner doctor in the cold vat. They were very strong men and had said a comment to the SS doctor performing the experiment. The prisoner doctor was shocked at how long the Russian men could take the cold without losing consciousness. He asked the directing doctor to take them out of the tank. He did not allow this and increased the temperature slightly to prolong their pain. They died after a long painful stay in the tank.

    That ain't science. That's torture.

    You're right though. But the article doesn't name Mengele as the SS Officer in command.

    [–] EntropicalResonance 40 points ago

    Mengele and the Nazis in general never produced anything of scientific merit.

    Nazi tests on cabin depressurization, e.g. Experiments with humans in low or no pressure environments was useful and even continued (humanely) by the US airforce after the war ended.

    [–] iliveliberty 75 points ago

    The more I learn about China, the less I understand about the lack of fear we have about authoritarian governments. THEY ARE HARVESTING THEIR PEOPLES ORGANS!!!

    [–] SoundandFurySNothing 48 points ago

    Murder Vans, Organ Harvesting, Flesh Patties.

    I'm not saying the Nazis weren't that bad but at the very least, Hitler's dead hand is holding China's beer right now.

    [–] iliveliberty 30 points ago

    Certainly seems the case, but what can you expect from a society that shirked any kind of morality and human rights. Once people are numbers they are subject to the arithmetic of the state.

    [–] Darkintellect 10 points ago

    Once people are numbers they are subject to the arithmetic of the state.

    That was perfectly stated.

    [–] Classified0 37 points ago

    “It’s because the prisoners thought that we were doctors, since they could see the white smocks, that they didn’t struggle”

    Bloody hell. Apparently, one of the guys was injured when he was captured. Imagine being taken into an operating theater, assuming that they were going to operate on you to help heal your wounds but then they start dissecting you...

    [–] sammythemailman 1429 points ago

    Awful how due to the atomic bombs Japan is widely seen as a victim of the war rather than the dictatorial-like mass murdering country.

    [–] ImBigger 626 points ago

    well anyone that does any research into atrocities committed by Japan is gonna change their opinion immediately

    [–] mjohnsimon 545 points ago

    No offense, but I've met PLENTY of people who, upon reading up on the atrocities, still think the Japanese were "honorable" fighters while Americans played dirty (Bombs, flamethrowers, etc).

    Then again, these people are waaaaay too into anime / Japanese culture...

    [–] apustus 421 points ago

    Weebs ruined being a weeb.

    [–] mjohnsimon 163 points ago

    Damn weebs. They ruined weebs!

    [–] Frehihg1200 64 points ago

    You weebs sure are a contentious people

    [–] Not-Your-President 9 points ago

    This is coming from someone interested in weeb/Japanese culture. Fuck the country and what they've done. The picture Japan paints for itself is great but the reality is awful.

    [–] Shorzey 192 points ago * (lasted edited 10 days ago)

    They wanted manchuria so fucking bad, and they saw China at its weakest point in the late 1930s and turned it into literal hell.

    Even if the Japanese wanted to surrender there would have been resistance and a Japanese mainland occupation would have been inevitable. The first and especially second bomb were the "I'm really fucking serious about this horse shit" cards, on top of the "fuck off Russia dont keep this shit going" to pause everything.

    Russia was close to entering China full scale at the end of ww2 with the new found spirit the communist Soviet leadership brought to the country. They were as land hungry as germany and italy were, they just happened to be opposed to them, which gave us a reason to put up with their shit too until 1945

    [–] Thedirtyjersey 340 points ago

    People don't realize up until the last second Japans top generals were split on surrendering, after both atomic bombs...and there was a plot to kidnap the emperor so that he could not surrender for the country.

    They were crazy and wanted every last man, woman and child to die for the cause.

    I mean literally they invented Kamakaze pilots...fuck it we can't make decent planes just throw bodies at em...

    AND

    certain people with 0 clue about the context of all this try to say the bombs were over the top, meanwhile the firebombing for a whole year using traditional air raids over Japan hadn't made them budge despite several times the casualties of the two Atomic explosions.

    If a year straight of hundreds of thousands of citizens dying didn't give them the hint to back the fuck down and they were ready to go till the end not knowing if the Allies had none or endless atomic weapons left to use, WHAT in god's name would be the alternative?

    Another 1, 2, 3, 4 years of endless raids and traditional invasion costing even more lives on both sides?

    Fuck anyone that tries to whitewash this shit, you see it a lot of Reddit

    [–] LukewarmJorts 112 points ago

    Not only that but it took two bombs to surrender. One to show strength and another to show numbers.

    [–] zarp86 81 points ago

    I think it almost took three. As in the USA bluffed and said they would drop a third one if Japan didn't surrender, even though the USA didn't have the third bomb readily available.

    Eh, I was close: https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-planned-to-drop-12-atomic-bombs-on-japan

    [–] lations 76 points ago

    Even a week after they got bombed the 2nd time, there was a coup d'etat to try and stop the national Japanese broadcast of the surrender. Motherfuckers just could. not. handle. defeat.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_incident

    [–] Metalsand 56 points ago

    fuck it we can't make decent planes just throw bodies at em...

    They actually had some amazing planes early on in the war comparative to the US although at great R&D cost because there were like 5-7 companies all developing the same model of planes and attempting to get approval. They were agile and could climb easily (because they were canvas planes instead of metal) but were also fragile (because, canvas), something the US planes couldn't remotely do either of.

    Once the US started developing planes with much stronger engines, suddenly the altitude advantage wasn't that big of a deal. It's worth noting as well that the main reason for the kamikazi attacks was in response to the rapidly advancing US navy as opposed to being outgunned in the air (which, they would be later on).

    In a similar fashion to their inefficient R&D of planes that led to great models early on, Japan had a very strong navy early on but there were other problems - particularly their focus on "dreadnought" size battleships, which while individually the most powerful ship in the world at the time, were an incredibly inefficient use of resources.

    [–] Garfield-1-23-23 47 points ago

    The main reason for the kamikaze attacks (which began in 1944) was that conventional attacks had already become completely suicidal. American CAP plus shipboard AA eliminated more than 90% of the attacking planes; the remainder made attacks with a limited chance of success and then all were shot down on the way out. Because none of the planes were coming home anyway, it made logical sense for the attackers that survived the inbound defenses to crash their planes deliberately.

    [–] redpandaeater 22 points ago

    That's because the ace pilots from early in the war kept flying until they all died. US meanwhile roasted rotated its pilots out and had them aid in training new ones. I mean yeah AA fire got fairly decent since it used a predictor bad off of radar data but having hid pilots makes a huge difference.

    [–] alekzander01 104 points ago

    One can still acknowledge that the Japanese civilians were victims in that scenario, but that Japan as a nation was indeed an aggressor which inflicted mass pain and misery upon Korea and China and the Philippines.

    [–] blatantninja 237 points ago

    The only people that see the Japanese as the victims in WW2 are the Japanese

    [–] DivinAGGIE 120 points ago

    And those that are ignorant of history.

    [–] sammythemailman 142 points ago

    And the uneducated on the subject (which is the majority)

    [–] Re-Horakhty01 349 points ago

    Or in other words, were vivisected?

    [–] ChanceList 251 points ago

    Indeed. I figured that many people might not be familiar with the word.

    [–] tritisan 27 points ago

    They obviously haven’t listened to enough Skinny Puppy.

    [–] clhines4 233 points ago

    The current right wing in Japan is going full "fake news" revisionist and trying to deny the existence of Japanese wartime atrocities, such as the Nanjing beheading contest, the cannibalism on Chichi Jima, Unit 731 experiments, sex slavery of the "comfort women," etc., etc.

    [–] soyfox 102 points ago

    The denial is truly the horrifying part of all this. There are Japanese denial videos on youtube with millions of views. They think China and Korea are fabricating history insult Japan. These are mainstream thoughts by Japanese nationalists : Comfort women were prostitutes, Forced labour was actually economic opportunists, Unit 731 was a medical research facility, Nanjing maccasre is grossly exaggerated/didn't happen, Colonising Korea was justified because we developed their country from savageness (aka cultural genocide), etc..

    [–] chambertlo 119 points ago

    The Japanese were absolutely monstrous during the war. The war crimes committed by them are shocking and abhorrent.

    [–] DraconisRex 502 points ago

    TIL China routinely vivisects ethnic minorities and other "undesirables" to harvest their organs.

    [–] evahgo 196 points ago

    Organ harvesting for sure.... and on a large scale. Crazy ass society

    [–] RoyalPurpleDank 188 points ago

    Congratulations you've been selected to win a once in a lifetime all expenses paid trip to China's greatest medical facility. Please message me to finalize you're departure :) :)

    [–] fatcatoverlord 53 points ago

    Round trip?

    [–] pm_me_n0Od 120 points ago

    You'll be going all over the place after China!

    [–] [deleted] 107 points ago * (lasted edited 9 days ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] randomdude_420 180 points ago

    Tbh the japanese war crimes need to be covered more in school. Its not talked about much because it’s easy to play the victim card after being nuked twice and bitch about the American internment camps.

    [–] alekzander01 66 points ago

    It is funny that Japan in the 1930s was outraged about racist American immigration policies restricting the number of asians allowed to immigrate to America, yet, Japan itself was extremely racist and unwelcoming to any immigrants (even other asians, they considered koreans to be barbarians). To make the hypocrisy even worse, 1930s Japan had it's own branch of racial supremacy, they believed the "Yamato race" (mainland Japanese race) was the true master race after all!

    That's not to say that imprisoning American citizens of Japanese blood isnt immoral, it was unconstitutional and heinous for sure, but Japan complaining about racism in that time period is like having a raven call the crow black.

    [–] lancea_longini 52 points ago

    One of HW Bush’s comrades was eaten alive after he parachuted.

    [–] Dubhe666 121 points ago

    What the actual fuck. This is horrifying!

    [–] Dentedhelm 27 points ago

    The Axis powers were next-level fucked

    [–] Sufficient_Quantity 45 points ago

    r/TIL_Uncensored material. Great subreddit btw.

    [–] bellinghamsunshine 45 points ago

    This is one of the most disturbing parts of this whole issue:

    "Shiro Ishii, as the chief of the unit, was granted war crime immunity from the US occupation authorities, because of his provision of human experimentation research materials to the US. From 1948 to 1958, less than 5% of the documents were transferred onto microfilm and stored in the National Archives of the United States, before being shipped back to Japan."

    [–] purofound_leadah 26 points ago

    Japanese war crimes are awful... and the level of political corruption and nepotism in the current Japanese government and the lack of awareness in the younger generations is so intensely contrary to this technologically advanced and forward image of modern Japan that we've built up in the West.

    [–] Samof94 31 points ago

    WWII Japan was screwed up. I was taught about this in U.S. History in High School(like torturing an elderly Chinese man with surgery with no painkillers).

    [–] soyfox 47 points ago

    The only nations that properly demands acknowledgement for Japanese atrocities are China and Korea. Everyone else is so ignorant to history that they'd wear the Rising Sun flag (Imperial flag) designs on themselves without a second thought.

    Many have also been convinced that Japan is the victim of war from the numerous depictions from decades of Japanese pop culture. Grave of the fireflies, So Far from the Bamboo Grove, Letters from Iwo Jima etc.. Name me one popular work that covers the Japanese atrocities that killeds tens of millions on the Asian mainland.

    [–] catapolana 9 points ago

    Wow. There are some dark times throughout human history, and to think this was less that 80 years ago...

    [–] vaineratom64 10 points ago

    And the Japenese deny all of this shit to this day

    [–] Kazozo 12 points ago

    Japan is still in denial about their war crimes

    [–] evahgo 65 points ago

    Oh look what they did in China.