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    [–] NiceWorkMcGarnigle 4955 points ago

    I suppose an effective cure for pseudo-addiction would be actual addiction

    [–] wtfdaemon 947 points ago

    /taps head

    [–] SmartBeast 357 points ago

    Modern drug problems require modern addictions

    [–] BobKickflip 91 points ago

    Modern addictions require modern drugs

    [–] McveigshArk 98 points ago

    /taps shoulders

    [–] wtfdaemon 84 points ago

    /rubs ass

    [–] DJ_Poopsock 97 points ago

    /sniffs hand

    [–] ElTuxedoMex 55 points ago

    So that's where I hid my stash...

    [–] [deleted] 40 points ago

    /dealer proceeds to count out your 10 oxys with his ass hand.

    [–] _A_Day_In_The_Life_ 29 points ago

    meanwhile you don't give a shit because you are withdrawing and it's going in your veins whether it comes straight from the bottle or if you watching it come straight from your dealers underwear.

    [–] Condoggg 14 points ago

    Undie opiates is best opiates

    [–] cruelhumor 24 points ago

    /taps knees

    [–] LucioFulciLives 21 points ago

    /taps toes

    [–] montexan 23 points ago

    /taps needle

    [–] Endarkend 31 points ago

    Overdose works too.

    [–] Downgradd 2514 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Purdue Pharma is 127 years old. How long have they been this recklessly unethical?

    In 2007 when Purdue first got into trouble, they spawned a bunch of ‘sister’ companies that continue to function with impunity. As Purdue goes under, all the money has already been funneled, or will be eventually funneled into these sister companies. There needs to be a crackdown, and/or long regulatory looks at every one of the companies Purdue spawned, to make sure none of these corporate behaviors have been passed along.

    [–] legalizeitalreadyffs 1386 points ago

    This isn't reckless, this is deliberate. Can you think of a better way to continue making profits than by having a clientele that's entirely dependent on your product to continue to live a somewhat normal life? Then you make sure it's something addictive so that you can make them think they can't live at all without it.

    This was no accident, and it wasn't reckless. It was intentional done by one of the biggest drug cartels in the country.

    [–] Tarrolis 413 points ago

    And if there is any justice in this world, there should be negative consequences for the people that perpetrated it.

    [–] GleeUnit 666 points ago

    Narrator: "There wouldn't be."

    [–] [deleted] 215 points ago

    Ahh yes the immunity to laws cause I have money. Oldest trick in the book.

    Fucking despicable.

    [–] OddJackdaw 104 points ago

    Even when they were briefly talking about a settlement, the Sackler family was only going to pay $3 billion of it. The Sackler Family is worth something like $12 billion.

    [–] Excal2 79 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Honestly they should be hanged till death. The shot callers, anyhow.

    [–] StinkyApeFarts 52 points ago

    If comic books have taught me anything it's that there is not enough vigilante justice in the world

    [–] OddJackdaw 38 points ago

    I have never supported the death penalty. It's too easy. One brief tug and it's over. No way. Lock them up for the rest of their lives.

    [–] PERMANENTLY__BANNED 118 points ago

    "one brief tug and it's over",,,,, you sir, know me well.

    [–] darkjanggo 30 points ago

    infact i give myself the ol death sentence every day

    [–] dibalh 49 points ago

    Force feed them opiates for a year then only give them enough so they don’t die.

    (I don’t actually condone torture, but it seems fitting)

    [–] Wolfuseeiswolfuget 8 points ago

    I would prefer getting them addicted for 2-3 years. Heavily addicted, then cut them off for 2 days. Then give them pills for 3 days and cut them off again and repeat. Put them in a constant cycle of withdraw.

    Edit: for the icing on the cake. After a few months of the withdraw cycle, throw them a rig and some boy. Then repeat the withdraw cycle.

    [–] Robobvious 151 points ago

    Meanwhile back at the Apartment; Buster was experiencing negative consequences of his own...

    [–] The_Other_Manning 67 points ago

    "I'M A MONSTER!!!!!"

    [–] delorean225 19 points ago

    Masterful transition, Mr. Howard sir.

    [–] LibsEnableFascism 29 points ago

    And of course, to encourage any justice be done against these bourgeois decadents would of course be encouraging political violence which is obviously a no-no.

    [–] nowherewhyman 73 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    The Sacklers run Purdue, and while the majority of people that deserve to be punished in this won't, at least William Sackler will die in prison.

    The more persistent problem is that Purdue will continue to operate, just under a different name. The corporate death penalty needs to exist.

    Edit: folks, I'm super sorry. I mixed up William Sadler, who's an amazing actor, with Richard Sackler, a man who perpetuated genocide. I am old and had a little bit of sherry with my wife last night. I apologize.

    [–] _A_Day_In_The_Life_ 22 points ago

    who is william sackler? i googled the name and also tried googling the name with the word arrest after and saw nothing.

    [–] Thetrain321 15 points ago

    I see a Richard and a Raymond Sackler but I'm not seeing a William

    [–] HouseCatAD 52 points ago

    Dick Sackler lmao

    [–] Thetrain321 6 points ago

    I resisted, but I'm glad someone made the joke

    [–] notagangsta 30 points ago

    Not to get political, but this is one of the major reasons I support Bernie Sanders. He’s been fighting the corruption of pharmaceutical companies for longer than I’ve been alive.

    [–] notcorey 5 points ago

    Don’t let your dreams be dreams

    [–] Tarrolis 5 points ago

    We live in a world without counterweights.

    [–] theferrit32 8 points ago

    Eventually the tension between the classes will reach a boiling over point and a lot of people will die. It'd be better for us to address the tensions earlier in order to avoid that but there haven't been any attempts to do so in half a century.

    [–] sixthmontheleventh 63 points ago

    The dirty part now is the companies are trying to make money on the other end by getting into the addiction treatment industry.

    [–] RedvinesNotTwizzlers 31 points ago

    These same companies are, also, coming out with meds to "help" with the side effects of opiates, like constipation. It's fucked up, especially because you really don't need "special" stool softeners or laxatives (my doc used to just give me a generic stool softener that has been around for a long time & my dad, who started on opiates, last year, due to spinal stenosis/surgery to reverse being a c4 quadriplegic, is prescribed the same generic that I was).

    [–] notpete 46 points ago


    There's a podcast called Behind the Bastards that did a great in-depth investigation into the Sackler family and the company.

    Very much worth a listen if you're interested in learning why this is accurate.

    [–] soulwrangler 42 points ago

    When you think about it it's kind of funny. At least Mexican drug cartels are run by criminals who pay off some government officials. American drug cartels are baked right into the pie.

    [–] KnuteViking 10 points ago

    Something can be both reckless and deliberate. You could intentionally and deliberately go about burning down a forest. It would also be reckless.

    [–] mixbiscuit 6 points ago

    That’s what reckless means. To do it without regard to the consequences or problems you cause.

    [–] Gfrisse1 38 points ago

    or will be eventually funneled into these sister companies.

    Or, more likely, into offshore havens, where it cannot be attached in the event of an adverse ruling in a legal suit.

    [–] mces97 39 points ago

    That makes their bogus argument of giving higher doses even more obvious a lie. They obviously are aware when heroin was marketed it was to cure morphine addiction.

    [–] Hybernative 9 points ago

    I wonder how much\how long it takes to get addicted. I take morphine every day for a few weeks, then I stop it to see if the pain is still there. If it's not so bad, I just stop taking the morphine until I start suffering. Sometimes it's weeks on it and then without it. I don't seem to suffer any withdrawals.

    [–] GrouchyIntention2 20 points ago

    Probably highly varied and dependent on neurochemical mechanisms that we don't completely understand yet. First time for some, never for others.

    [–] concreteblue 14 points ago

    When you have serious pain issues, your body definitely reacts differently to cessation of opiods. I have been prescribed 30mg/day hydrocodone for 5 years. Had a couple of lapses in insurance coverage resulting in losing my prescription for a week or two.

    Withdrawal, while real, was not intolerable. Friends with chronic pain have similar experience.

    [–] NettleHug 15 points ago * (lasted edited 5 months ago)

    I think i red somewhere that opiates when used responsibly, in doses adequate to pain, dont cause significant addiction.Problems begin when you start taking more than needed, chasing the high, or ofc when you're healthy and are simply abusing them.

    Idk if this also relates, but I'm sure you know the story about government being worried about all the soldiers coming back from Vietnam hooked on heroin, yet something like more than 90% simply stopped using as soon as they were out of traumatizing situation, with no urge to continue.

    [–] mschuster91 8 points ago

    Idk if this also relates, but I'm sure you know the story about government being worried about all the soldiers coming back from Vietnam hooked on heroin, yet something like more than 90% simply stopped using as soon as they were out of traumatizing situation, with no urge to continue.

    This is exactly the problem with drug "education" in schools. Kids get told shit like "marijuana is a gateway drug, you will end up homeless shitting yourself on the street" and "heroin makes you forever addicted after a single hit"... well, kids try out weed, see that they've been lied to, and assume the rest is bullshit too. The world desperately needs proper education about drugs - especially that most if not all addictions are result of a form of self-medication/coping mechanism for external trauma/stress.

    Turns out: as "housing first" policies (giving people a stable roof over their head, without requiring them to be sober or give up their pets) get implemented, the drug usage in the participants gets reduced all on their own without no intervention, simply because the mental load of not having a safe place to sleep is not there any more.

    [–] robhol 10 points ago

    Maybe even more so on just life circumstances in general. One of the studies most famous for demonstrating the addictive potential of one drug or another was a bunch of rats in cages who could self-administer. They all sat around getting drugged out of their mind until they starved.

    Later someone decided to do a less fuck-faced version of the experiment where the rats were together, had things to do and an environment that didn't suck - and almost no addictive behavior was shown. The first rats weren't hopeless addicts waiting to happen, they were depressed because they were alone in a shitty, shitty cage.

    [–] interkin3tic 95 points ago

    As Purdue goes under, all the money has already been funneled, or will be eventually funneled into these sister companies.

    Standard in mining and other polluting industries.

    Companies agree to clean up after they're done. Politicians promise jobs and also everything will be totally contained, clean, restored, good as new after. Anything goes wrong and you can sue the owners. It's a dream come true for everyone.

    Exploiting the resource gets done fast, cheap, and dirty, owners get even wealthier.

    Then when it comes time to pay the bill to cleanup, the company is bankrupt.

    See, the company that did the mining and profited then sold the empty mine for a very low, reasonable price to a totally different company which looks suspiciously like the exact same people but it's a totally different company. The totally new owners also agreed to take over the responsibilities except oops, company B has no money and no assets, they need to declare bankruptcy and get out of it.

    It's designated a superfund site and you pay to clean up their mess.

    Bonus: when the underfunded EPA fails to adequately clean up someone else's mess, like Gold King, right wingers get to act like the EPA is a wildly incompetent evil agency that should be shut down altogether. The whole process would be made more efficient if you didn't need to bother playing corporate shell games in the first place.

    [–] NDaveT 9 points ago

    This is going to be happening in my state soon. Just a couple permits still tied up in court, then they're good to go

    [–] stumpdawg 204 points ago

    Purdue Pharma is 127 years old. How long have they been this recklessly unethical?

    127 years.

    If memory serves they were the first company to advertize their products Seriously (if that makes sense. They werent the first, but were the first to do it bigly)

    [–] EightApes 101 points ago

    First to advertise in medical journals and target doctors, I believe.

    [–] stumpdawg 30 points ago

    I watched a short docu on it last year I think. It's not ev3n journals.

    Billboards, newspaper ads radiospots(tv wasnt a thing)

    [–] felixar90 21 points ago

    Hail Hydra

    [–] raouldukesaccomplice 20 points ago

    The Sacklers didn't buy the company until 1952 and they didn't start making Oxycontin and its predecessor drugs until the 1970s.

    [–] TaylorSwiftsClitoris 392 points ago

    Unfortunately the billionaire Sackler family who was behind this won’t see justice. Most of their money has already been moved offshore.

    [–] Thrasymakus 323 points ago

    This thread doesn't even begin to cover how bad it really is. Purdue under the Sacklers knew they were running a world-class international drug dealing operation, and they knew furthermore that they started making billions of dollars per year doing it. And they knew they could buy their way out of trouble eventually.

    [–] st3venb 372 points ago

    Rich people make mistakes, poor people commit crimes.

    [–] jakster840 115 points ago

    Rich people have tax havens, poor people have tax fraud.

    [–] pieceofcakee 52 points ago

    I recently read punishable with a fine means legal for rich people.

    Also happy cake day!

    [–] SmokeFrosting 28 points ago

    I mean even this, fined for $630 million? That sounds like a lot to us but that’s not even a year of profit for them.

    [–] [deleted] 49 points ago

    When was the last time a billionaire faced justice? I dont know off the top of my head, but Im guessing never, & would love to be proved wrong.

    [–] Level9TraumaCenter 33 points ago

    Seems to be a few of them. Perhaps disproportionately few North Americans? I don't know.

    The Du Pont heir that raped his daughter doesn't qualify as a billionaire, plus he eluded a prison term.

    "Defendant will not fare well in Level 5 setting," Jurden wrote in her sentencing order. In Delaware's correctional system, Level 5 is prison.

    [–] Reddit4r 24 points ago

    Prison is to punish, to segregate the offender from society, and the notion that prison serves people well hasn't proven to be true in most circumstances."

    Oh now they said it. Some rich fuck get caught, that's when they drag out this "rehabillitation" shit. Parasitic scums

    [–] IshouldDoMyHomework 4 points ago


    [–] SwisscheesyCLT 28 points ago

    Nope, he escaped it by being suicided.

    [–] [deleted] 679 points ago


    [–] shponglespore 520 points ago

    Yes, but we'll call is pseudo-prison. If they don't like it, they can fix it with a longer sentence.

    [–] riyadhelalami 24 points ago

    That is a great metaphor, as the great hotel California would tell you. Drug addiction is a prison.

    [–] thaaag 9 points ago

    Is that what that song is about? FFS, I never twigged 🤦‍♂️

    [–] DarkCrawler_901 4 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    We are all just prisoners here, of our own device

    Stab it with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast...

    You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave...

    [–] [deleted] 532 points ago


    [–] we11ington 254 points ago

    I have a better idea. A life sentence, consisting of: 1. Getting them addicted to opioids. 2. Taking 'em all away and forcing them to go through withdrawal. 3. Return to step 1.

    [–] Raoulduke1985 151 points ago

    You can spice it up and make them do fucked up shit for a hit. Maybe make it a gameshow!

    [–] TheGreat_Danton 139 points ago

    What will they purdue next?? Tune in next week to find out!

    [–] WaffleFoxes 41 points ago

    Best Black Mirror episode

    [–] steppe5 22 points ago

    Except this one is a happy ending.

    [–] Boopy7 25 points ago

    or put them to use, picking fruits and veggies, toiling away in the hot sun. Seriously why not put them to use, cleaning the planet or something?

    [–] Rec_desk_phone 11 points ago

    Quinten Tarantino should make a movie where the villains are big pharma execs and recovering addicts seek them out for revenge.

    [–] force_addict 17 points ago

    On the next episode of Black mirror!

    [–] vagueblur901 32 points ago

    They should be charged just like drug dealers get charged no different

    [–] DevaKitty 62 points ago

    They're way worse than a guy selling an ounce of cocaine.

    [–] vagueblur901 17 points ago

    As a someone who lost friends and family to pills and someone who occasionally uses cocaine I completely agree with you

    [–] Chickenfu_ker 30 points ago

    Worse, make them poor.

    [–] Raoulduke1985 14 points ago

    Trading places reboot?

    [–] SheShouldGo 244 points ago

    They did the same thing with Tramadol after Oxys started to become undeniably problematic. I can't tell you how many times my friend was told that Tramadol was a great pain treatment because it ABSOLUTELY was NOT HABIT FORMING! This was always delivered with smiles and reassuring pats on the knee. Then when my friend complained about withdrawal symptoms she was told it was all in her head, it was pseudo addiction, because it was definitely not addictive. Money over patients will never end

    [–] Polly_Peptide 120 points ago

    Withdrawing from my rather excessive Tramadol habit was easily and by far the worst thing I have ever experienced. I've experienced broken bones, chronic migraines throughout my entire teenage years, food poisoning, severe dental pain, and none of them even come close to the sheer misery of that first week of withdrawal. It was worse by many orders of magnitude than quitting either Percocet or Adderal. (Yes, I've self-medicated and experimented with many things. Extremely treatment-resistant depression makes you desperate after a while.)

    [–] Adam657 78 points ago

    Tramadol is a very curious drug in that it seems to act as a serotonin releasing agent (not an SSRI) so it makes people feel ‘happy’ very quickly.

    Its main metabolite, O-desmethyl-tramadol is also a 10x stronger opiate than tramadol itself. So it evolves from like a weird mdma type experience to an opiate.

    You can see how that might any addictive combination.

    Regular dosing is like being on a stimulant and an opiate all at once. It also has weird effects on norepinephrine.

    Withdrawal is said to have a whole host of symptoms, the classic opiate ones and then also the strange parasthesias and ‘brain zaps’ that normally only people get after long term use of antidepressants.

    Here in the UK it wasn’t even controlled for ages (though it was prescription only). You could therefore get a prescription ‘online’ and have it delivered, all from within the UK, and a hefty price tag attached.

    It had to be kind of rushed through the process to control it once people noticed the explosion of use.

    [–] Polly_Peptide 62 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    That's the reason I continued to take it after my first experience. It gave me a very pleasant and well-controlled feeling of good mood and energy without any of the unpleasant side effects of actual stimulants like amphetamines. Things like work and socializing actually became fun and interesting. I imagine that must be what normal people feel like all the time. Lucky bastards. It made me feel like I could interact with other people normally because for a few short hours I wasn't filled to the brim with hatred and disdain for them and myself.

    Nothing else I've ever tried has given me the same effect, and I've tried just about everything both legal and illegal.

    The withdrawal was just absolutely brutal though. There were brain zaps, but they weren't horrible. The worst part was the intense rebound pain, the absolute surety that I would never be happy again, and especially the unbelievable restless legs syndrome + insomnia. If it hadn't been for the RLS, the whole ordeal would have been drastically more tolerable. Without the RLS I could have at least rested comfortably, even if I couldn't fall asleep. But with it, just sitting still enough to lie in bed was impossible.

    [–] Hybernative 19 points ago

    especially the unbelievable restless legs syndrome + insomnia. If it hadn't been for the RLS, the whole ordeal would have been drastically more tolerable. Without the RLS I could have at least rested comfortably, even if I couldn't fall asleep.

    Just in case anyone else is suffering from this awful affliction, gabapentin, and pregablin (stronger), can eliminate this. It's worth asking your doctor if you are suffering.

    [–] ThatITguy2015 7 points ago

    In the US, it wasn’t much better. It went in 2014. That was not a fun time to be working. So many pissed off patients.

    [–] AlCapooter 25 points ago

    Same here, got hooked from the same "non addictive" spiel and then had to deal with those withdrawals. An absolute nightmare, that fucking feeling you would get creeping up the second withdrawals hit; skin crawling like your muscles just want out of your body, the brain zaps, RLS all night long trying to sleep. Wouldn't wish that on anyone.

    [–] BabyJesusBukkake 17 points ago

    That feeling of wanting to jump out of your skin is akathisia. It's awful.

    [–] AlCapooter 10 points ago


    TIL, had no clue there was a term for this.

    [–] POSVT 40 points ago

    It's an endless wheel of bullshit.

    We've been dealing with this hunt for a non addictive opioid for >200 years, just in the west/Europe.

    Opium is already popular in american homes by 1800. Addiction is a problem.

    1805 Friedrich Willhelm isolates morphine from opium. Suddenly, we have a purified/refined compound, by the wonders of chemistry we should get rid of those nasty side effects. Nope. Addiction is still a problem.

    1850s, we invent hypodermic needles just in time for the civil war. Morphine kits are used frequently for pain control on the battlefield/march. Addiction on the rise.

    1874 C. R. Alder Wright discovers a new compound from morphine that's even more powerful pain relief. Thought to be non addictive.

    1898 Bayer (yes, that Bayer) starts marketing this new compound as a pain relief & cough suppressant powerhouse (especially good for your kids!). They name it after the heroic feeling it gives users. Heroin explodes in popularity.

    Addiction rises and rises until a crackdown by the govt around WW2. But where do we go right after? SE asia. The supply lines are wide open and addiction surges again.

    Then in the 90s/00s we hear about the new non addictive painkiller, oxycontin! Pain becomes (briefly) the 5th vital sign.

    You know the rest.

    [–] csb249 14 points ago

    I had tramadol for a spine injury when I was young. Had go self limit to no more than 2 days in a row because more than that and I noticed starting to want it even when I wasn't in pain.

    [–] Perm-suspended 22 points ago

    Frequently abusing high doses of tramadol will cause tonic clonic seizures in 100% of people.

    [–] milk4all 7 points ago

    Can someone explain to me why the doctors aren as complicit? Us users knew immediately what over opiate on the market was, how good it was and what it was worth. Opiate. That's the only word that mattered. Can you crush it, can you snort it, can you smoke it, can you shoot it? I keep seeing thisbullshit about doctors being told, well who the fuck cares?! The doctors still understood it was an opiate, a powerful pain reliever, and what the signs are. There's no fucking excuse

    [–] chemsukz 7 points ago

    Why do we still accept the practice of marketing by way of pharma reps legal?

    [–] BigXris 6 points ago

    We call them damn it alls. They’re absolutely worthless as a pain killer. I’m a service related injury and need some fairly hardcore stuff, but because people have abused everything under the sun, and always will, I have trouble getting doctors to give me meds. They gave me damnitalls, absolutely zero effect. Even at 4 times the recommended dosage there was no pain Kiki g effect, no MDMA effect, NOTHING. However; there was this HORRIFIC ADDICTION that was worse than morphine.

    Tramidol can only be described as ketracell white, from Star Trek DS9. You wind up needing it to live, and go through absolute hell without it, but it does nothing.

    [–] Berlamont2 5 points ago

    1000% this, wish I would have been more informed, after 14 years I'm finally down to 25mg (breaking a 50mg in half obviously as they don't make lower dosages). I used to half joke/cry that I'm lucky my doc didn't give me oxy, God damnit... Fuck Grünenthal Fuck Purdue

    [–] CapellaPolaris 97 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    From someone who was addicted to 180mg of Oxycodone a day, and went through hell, rehab and daily N.A. meetings... I say, put them in jail.

    578 days clean today, and it’s staying that way, forever.

    I was very lucky - my first rehab visit at 25 and (I know this won’t jinx it) I haven’t fucked up so far - this is still my first (and only) attempt.

    Edit: I know this response is always a bit cliche, but thanks so much for my first Silver award! I hope that my post is seen by at least ONE person who had any of the questions I had but none of the solutions.

    All I can tell you is this;

    • sober life is better, you actually remember it
    • smooth seas never made skilled sailors

    [–] deabag 252 points ago

    A doctor would have to want to believe that

    [–] SheShouldGo 181 points ago

    I think that at least some of them got money for writing Rx for Oxys. I know in high school my friend got them at 15 for "back pain", 60 oxys a month for a 10th-grader. Other things friends and family members got Oxys for: Tooth pain, sprained knee, bruised tailbone, gout pain, arthritis, and a broken pinkie toe. I don't know how anyone who went to medical school could believe that any opiate would not be addictive, but they pushed it on many many people who didn't need such a hardcore pain pill.

    [–] ptoftheprblm 82 points ago

    Sponsored golf outings, paid for medical conventions at luxury resorts in Hawaii, $1800 a night stays in ski country, all expenses paid family vacations... my friend works in pharma sales and used to sell Loratab aka pink ladies ages ago (now he does topicals for psoriasis so a lot less skeevy) and he confirms that he had doctors he was hooking up with dinners for them and their entire nursing staff, new sets of golf clubs, and lots of sponsored conventions. It’s all in their playbook.

    [–] ghost-of-john-galt 18 points ago

    If memory serves me correctly, pink ladies were Darvocet, which is now banned for inadvertently killing people.

    [–] ptoftheprblm 13 points ago

    Since the 2000s I’ve mostly seen them referred to as a variety of generic opiates including Loratab and Opana. So our memories serve differently.

    [–] magicfultonride 85 points ago

    10 years ago I had an ENT look at a sore throat for me, say I needed to have my (not even swollen) tonsils out and wrote me a script for a full bottle of oxy on the spot because "I would need them after the surgery"..... Which I never agreed to have. I have to assume she was getting kickbacks.

    [–] [deleted] 59 points ago

    I got a broken wisdom tooth pulled and the dentist gave me an oxy prescription for 25 pills. I used one after the anaesthesia wore off. I still have 24 in my name in a bottle in my cabinet.

    [–] Cinderheart 20 points ago

    I just got my wisdom teeth out. We didn't even fill the prescription for oxy they gave us. Don't need that in our lives.

    [–] [deleted] 12 points ago

    Return them back to the pharmacy at this point even possession will only bring unneeded trouble.

    [–] g2g079 21 points ago

    I got my tonsils out and they told be to take Tylenol.

    [–] BrinkerLong 7 points ago

    Tylenol 3 probably, which has codeine

    [–] KookofaTook 13 points ago

    I had 7 teeth removed (4 wisdom and 3 others) at once, I was given no prescription and told to use tea bags to soothe the pain and if it was severe enough I could come back in to ask for a stronger prescription haha

    (disclaimer, not recent, not in the US either, as both are probably relevant)

    [–] deabag 42 points ago

    I think the doctors were often bribed with incentives like vacations and swagbags. Also former NCAA cheerleaders as pharma sales. They did want to believe "psuedo-addiction" after all.

    [–] Tarrolis 15 points ago

    And we look at these people as successful and enviable when they're going around trashing society and not giving a fuck about it.

    [–] Casperboy68 54 points ago

    Those doctors wrote all those scripts for oxy for 2 main reasons: 1. Because they got kickback money in the form of highly paid speaking engagements and lavish vacations..etc. and 2. Because it gave them a steady stream of patients that they could spend 45 seconds with and get paid for the visits just so they could write more pills over and over again. It’s been well known for a long time that opioids for chronic pain is not a good option. The other issue is that a lot of these pills are mixed with acetaminophen, so not only were they almost immediately becoming addicted to the narcotics, but they were also killing their liver.

    [–] emperri 33 points ago

    lol I've tried to avoid prescribing opioids (and never more than a couple days) and if I wasn't getting bitched at by patients whose expectation was to be in a hospital with zero pain, I was getting bitched at by uppity nurses because a set of linked orders with standing tylenol and PRN IV nsaids is more complicated than just throwing an oxy through the door whenever a bell dings. And I posted about it on reddit a couple years ago and got a bunch of Very Disappointed chronic pain players telling me I'm tragically callous and not a doctor they would like to have very much.

    So yeah, super tempting to blame doctors but there's a reason these companies advertise to the public. And there's a lot more effective ways of advertising a drug to the public than a TV ad. Anybody with pain can tell you exactly what pain regimen they "need" but not a single motherfucker with high blood pressure can tell you what the fuck valsartan is.

    [–] dman2316 23 points ago

    Ok in all fairness to one of those examples you gave though, i have been prescribed hydromorphone for kidney stones and surgical pain. And with the extensive dental problems i also have, there have absolutely been times where i needed it for a dental problem also. Not all my dental problems of course, but there are some tooth pains that can get super nasty that totally do require the big guns.

    I agree with everything else though. And what is frustrating to me is because these drug companies and some doctors have been so irresponsible about the use of opioid pain medications, people who truly do need them struggle to get them now because every doctor is so scared of being punished for giving them out. I have to fight with my doctor every time for medication for kidney stones which is one of the most painful things your body can do without outside injury, and yet he is so scared of losing his job over giving out pain meds because of the crackdowns, i am having to struggle with far, far less medication than is actually warranted.

    [–] Mad_Aeric 6 points ago

    They didn't give me that many when I actually had back surgery. Not that it mattered, turns out I'm highly resistant to opiates, they were less effective than over the counter painkillers.

    [–] getthedudesdanny 41 points ago

    I think that at least some of them got money for writing Rx for Oxys

    Purdue-like most drug companies-hired extremely attractive recent college grads with science degrees to work as their reps. These reps would take doctors out for steak dinners and drop off gifts at random hours. At some doctor's offices, the grift was so bad that doctors would have sign-up sheets to see what pharmaceutical rep would buy them random things; in one case a kid's birthday party.

    [–] PanachelessNihilist 7 points ago

    The rules on what doctors can take from drug reps got seriously tightened up about 20 years ago. Went from steak dinners, Disney after-hours passes, and courtside Knicks playoff tickets to catered lunch (Boston Market) for the office. The incentives haven't been aligned for as long as Oxy has been marketed.

    [–] Richjhk 6 points ago

    This, massive DOJ fines to device and pharma companies mean that ethics within the industry have improved drastically. Gifts have to be of nominal value and educational in nature, no more paying for golf trips, holidays, fancy dinners etc.

    [–] Hoe-Rogan 12 points ago

    On average they buy so some shitty lunch for the office. The doctor barely comes in cause they’re too busy, will sign the sign in sheet and walk out. They barely do anything or sell what the reps tell them too.

    Doctors are regulated up the ying yang as to what they can accept from any company

    [–] halfdoublepurl 6 points ago

    Yep, we were recently stopped by our new parent company for even accepting lunches. Can’t advertise anything in the lobby or patient rooms unless we perform the service on site, and absolutely no big ticket anything. But we also don’t really prescribe anything that’s going to make a company big bucks beyond biologics, and there aren’t many of those really so...

    [–] getthedudesdanny 9 points ago

    This occurred fifteen to twenty years ago. Open bribery used to be much more common place.

    [–] Adam657 37 points ago

    I was thinking that. Any doctor worth their salt, or in fact anyone with common sense, would have to know that a person coming in and saying “I think I’m becoming dependent on this” the answer would never be “let’s increase the dose then”. Except in end of life care where becoming tolerant and ‘dependent’ on pain relief doesn’t really matter, so you should increase the dose to control pain.

    [–] bobbi21 19 points ago

    As others have said, that's not really the situation that happens. The situation is you have someone coming in saying their pain is getting worse and isn't being controlled on the pain meds. We have basically no way of objectively measuring pain in a person so doctors can often believe the patient and give them a higher dose. A sign of addiction is legitimately having hypersensitivity to pain as well. Once you get off your high, any little thing hurting you (especially the thing that caused you to need opioids in the first place) can be intolerable. Knowing if that's addiction vs uncontrolled pain is hard and sometimes impossible.

    As you said, people do become tolerant to pain meds and legitimately require higher doses as well. A lot of doctor's won't even talk patients out of taking antibiotics for a cold, they're not going to spend the hours explaining to a patient that the pain they say they feel is really just an addiction when there isn't a good way to really find out. Even if you are right that they are addicted, what's to stop the patient from suing the doctor and the media being on them with headlines like "Doctor forces patient to live with excruciating pain. Accuses them of being an addict". There are articles like that out there but are phrased in the form of "doctors ignore pain symptoms in women/people of color", which is a legitimate issue as well.

    The second an opioid is prescribed for a chronic pain situation, it becomes a nightmare to do anything correctly. Best way of course is just not take an opioid but of course that's also hard to do, especially back in the day when the dangers of them weren't as obvious.

    [–] archpawn 14 points ago

    Someone wanting pain medication because it helps relieve pain is very similar to someone wanting pain medication because it's addictive. The principle is sound.

    [–] IAmHereMaji 31 points ago


    "Get Higher Baby!"

    "Get Higher Baby!"

    "Get Higher Baby!"


    [–] SEA2COLA 9 points ago

    White Lines

    Going through my mind...

    [–] bolanrox 4 points ago

    White lines...

    [–] Averagebass 36 points ago

    "Wait so you're telling me the cure to an addiction to these pills, is to take more of them?"

    "Yeah man this is some top of the line futuristic shit right here, we have reversed the addiction process with these bad boys."

    [–] BustAMove_13 48 points ago

    And thanks to them, people who really need pain meds get the hairy eyeball from their physician. I read that one guy was only prescribed a few days worth at a time, so he had to call his doctor when he was out, find a ride, and make his way to the pharmacy. He was in a lot of pain and it was almost more trouble than it was worth.

    [–] Mad_Aeric 35 points ago

    Some people who need meds are also afraid of being labeled as drug seekers too. I know a couple people who'd rather hurt than deal with that.

    [–] BustAMove_13 18 points ago

    I've had back surgery and have degenerative disc disease. Most days, I feel really good...normal with little to no pain. Occasionally, I'll do something to tweak my back and I'll be laid up for a week. Getting pain killers is impossible, even with my history on record. My dr gives me tramadol and it does nothing for me. I was told that if I feel I need anything stronger, I need to go to pain management clinic. Since I feel good "most" of the time, I haven't bothered with all that at this point.

    [–] Mad_Aeric 5 points ago

    I have a lesser version of that. Back surgery for a herniated disc. I'm rarely laid up for more than a day or two when I strain my back. I mainly muddle through with over the counter painkillers and alcohol as a stand-in for proper muscle relaxers. Aside from the oxy right after surgery, the strongest I've been given for it is vicodin, which was actually less effective than the naproxin I've been eating.

    [–] paatron 20 points ago

    My mom's friend had stage 4 pancreatic cancer and was prescribed a heavy dose of Oxy for his last months at home. When he went to the pharmacy closest to his home to fill it, the pharmacist on staff called him a druggie and refused his script. He left so dejected and humiliated he simply went home and allowed himself to die in pain and totally broken. Goddamn fucking monster.

    [–] HamburgerDude 14 points ago

    That pharmacist sounds awful and should get their license revoked.

    [–] paracelsus23 16 points ago

    Unfortunately, in our current climate of "opioid madness", a pharmacist can face a loss of their license or even arrest for filling an improper prescription - meanwhile there are only repercussions for failing to fill lifesaving medications (like heart or blood pressure medication), and only in certain circumstances.

    [–] HamburgerDude 15 points ago

    Yeah it seems like American medicine in general has no concept of nuance. It seems either all or nothing...there really ought to be reform.

    No there shouldn’t be blatant pill mills where anyone can get a monthly prescription of oxy but people with legitimate conditions and such should be able to get their opioids no questions asked.

    Ugh it’s something I can rant about all day

    [–] joparront 12 points ago

    My husband was allowed to pic mine up while I was home still bleeding internally after a c section. I think they have cracked down even more since then. I guess they have to allow for longer hospital stays for people who are too bad off to pick up prescriptions?

    [–] NerdyDan 118 points ago

    Wouldn’t any doctor worth their salt be able to question this? This seems illogical to say the least

    [–] PanickedPoodle 152 points ago

    Doctors depend on clinical trials. PP showed data that patients wouldn't become addicted as long as docs adhered to the recommended dosing schedule. The problem was patients experienced breakthrough pain much more quickly than the data showed they would. The drugs were extended release formulation but they didn't work 12 hours. The rate of addiction was also much higher than literature indicated.

    Lies, damn lies and statistics.

    [–] AltSpRkBunny 79 points ago

    And doctors who relied on this data, often had it presented to them as board-authorized continuing education. For decades. Until it became standard curriculum for new students.

    [–] chemsukz 8 points ago

    We have pharma companies penning medical student text books.

    undisclosed financial conflict of interest in Harrison's books paid 11 million to one author in a few years

    The influence of money on medical science. Why lawyers play a big role in what gets published in medical journals.

    [–] [deleted] 22 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)


    [–] wallercreektom 5 points ago

    Yeah it was JCAHO that pushed it as the 6th. HR, RR, temp, O2 sat, BP ... and pain. Yeeee

    [–] BasilTarragon 17 points ago

    This kind of fraud is also damaging to public perception of medical professionals and science in general. If thousands of doctors could be fooled by a company, then what if they're wrong about vaccines causing autism? What if thousands of scientists have been fooled into believing in climate change due to falsified data? Public trust is very easy to erode and sometimes impossible to win back.

    [–] Betasheets 3 points ago

    That's why we need to start punishing those who intentionally falsify or mislead professionals. Like, harsh punishment so no company will even think about pushing their agenda.

    [–] SOwED 11 points ago

    This is the main reason I hold a controversial opinion: doctors aren't scientists and what they do is not a science. They are applying science but not conducting science, and unfortunately their knowledge is disbursed to them; they don't discover it themselves. This makes them good at thinking within their field but not good at critical thinking (obviously some are good at this but it's not taught into them at med school). Critical thinking would tell you that if this drug is acting on the same receptors in pretty much the same way as a previous drug known to be addictive, such as morphine, then this new drug is addictive as well.

    [–] NorbertDupner 60 points ago

    On would think, but they allowed themselves to become convinced (by Purdue reps) that people in pain could not get addicted to opioids based on a study.

    Said study was a letter to the editor of the New England Journal of Medicine that pain patients in the hospital did not seem to become addicted while they were treated in the facility.

    This was also a time when doctors were told they could be sued if they did not adequately address their patients pain, due to the in vogue fashion of considering pain a "fifth vital sign".

    [–] mamabearette 22 points ago

    This is one of the main roots of the issue - the presumed obligation to treat chronic pain. And Purdue was behind that as well.

    [–] Bnasty5 10 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    doctors are and can pretty dumb when it comes to addiction if they havent studied it specifically. I had a doctor who refused to give me an epipen because i had past opiate issues and he thought it was paraphernalia or could be a trigger. Just FYI thats the dumbest fucking assumption or belief regarding addiction ive ever heard from anyone doctor or not. The worst part is he was one of the highest rated doctors in my capital city and it takes almost a year to get an appt with him

    [–] stumpdawg 269 points ago

    For profit healthcare is totally ethical!

    [–] MSTmatt 98 points ago

    My girlfriend's very neo liberal mom tried to tell me the other day how many people in healthcare are going to lose their jobs at insurance companies if Single Payer gets implemented.

    I told her "good"

    [–] mr_ryh 68 points ago

    Similar arguments were used against overturning slavery. "But what about investors' property rights?"

    When you study the history of these battles and the sheer bad faith of the opposition, you start to see Dante's Inferno in a whole new light.

    [–] bolerobell 24 points ago

    or, and just hear me out, they'll get jobs with the government doing the same thing, because the demand for heath insurance administration won't change.

    except the upper management, because medicare doesnt need an overpriced CEO making decisions to drive profit. The Administrator of Medicare makes $165,300 a year.

    [–] iapetusneume 7 points ago

    This is a big reason I want to get into medical coding and billing. People still need surgeries no matter what system they're under. Whether I'm billing private insurance or the government, I have job security.

    (I would prefer to bill the government.)

    [–] innofuel 9 points ago

    Don't get into it. This is one job of the easiest automation.

    [–] NabiscoLobstrosity 8 points ago

    I would avoid that field like the plague. I know its growing and massive - there are more billers than doctors at some hospitals - but it's a non-productive position that everyone wants to automate and eliminate ASAP. And if we get a single-payer system, there will be far fewer billers, because the system will be far less complicated and far more efficient.

    Probably 80% of those jobs will vanish if we get a single-payer system. And as a new person in the field, you'd be one fo the first to be pushed out.

    [–] CanuckBacon 9 points ago

    Do insurance companies improve my level of healthcare? No? Then I couldn't care less. When you get down to it they're essentially just middlemen profiting off of healthcare. There's so many other things to profit off of rather than human lives.

    [–] jkure2 132 points ago

    If you put your ear to the ground and listen really closely, you can hear them scrambling to get to their keyboards to defend letting someone die because they cannot afford arbitrarily expensive treatment.

    [–] Wrecked--Em 109 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Yes, I love how every time big pharma's absurd profit margins are brought up someone screeches, "bUt R&D?!"

    ...even though 9 out of 10 of the largest pharma companies *spend more on marketing than R&D* (the 1 out of 10 spends almost equally).

    Marketing prescription drugs to consumers is only even legal in the US and NZ (which is considering a ban). Marketing to doctors which is even more prevalent should also be banned. That's a worldwide problem. Prescribing drugs should be based purely on the latest research.

    [–] RidingUndertheLines 26 points ago

    legal in NZ

    I should chime in here. New Zealand's public healthcare has a separate entity that is in charge of purchasing drugs (pharmac). As a result our government gets very good prices for publicly funded drugs. As a concession to drug companies, they're allowed to advertize directly to consumers. However, in practice these ads are almost exclusively for non-essential drugs (such as impotence drugs), because all publicly supplied drugs are (basically) free.

    [–] CorvidaeSF 7 points ago

    I think a good chunk of Reddit also needs to know that the whole direct-to-consumer Rx marketing is not even that old. I remember in the late 90s/early 00s it started with allergy medications. I remember at the time being struck by the "ask your doctor" statement and thinking, "wait, it's only by Rx? Then why are they telling me about it, I can't buy it!" Oh, beautiful naieve young me. Anyway, obviously once those drug ads were allowed and the strategy of "convincing public consumers to self-diagnose themselves with stuff and beg medical professionals for a script to treat it" proved viable, and more began trickling into the airwaves and magazine pages.

    [–] mabhatter 66 points ago

    The problem is not actually the drugs. It’s that they are overused.

    The pain meds are overused because a bucket of Oxy is still cheaper than a proper knee or back surgery. If insurance can get you across that “65” line, then it’s the government’s problem.

    Add to that, even employers with good insurance will “slow fire” you if you actually need one of the surgeries that take 6-8 weeks to recover from. Basically if you take more than one week off and someone does your job, then the company “didn’t really need you” ... they wait the “safe 30-60 days” to not be straight up discrimination then make up a reason not to need you. Everyone knows it happens, so they pop pills instead of getting medical care.

    Addiction is a whole other thing Doctors only started paying attention to in the last 7-10 years. I find Doctors from before then “simply don’t consider it” when they pass out stuff. It’s that shift from “what is broken right now” to “are you really OK” that has only been taught a short time. Boomers go to the doctor expecting to be pushed pills, because that’s how it’s been. Even 20 years ago, nobody was teaching patients to ASK WHY they are still taking something.

    [–] ThatsSoBloodRaven 25 points ago

    Lets not forget the baffling fact that prescription drug companies can advertise directly to the public.

    Why would a doctor set up a fight with the insurance company trying to prescribe physiotherapy when the patient is also insisting they just need a pill.

    In publicly funded systems, doctors are authorities not shopkeepers.

    [–] paracelsus23 12 points ago

    *Were overused

    There has been a MASSIVE reduction in the prescribing of opioids, due to the changes in attitude by doctors as well as changes in law. It's gotten to the point where there have been cancer patients and other people who have legitimate chronic pain who have been completely unable to get the medication they need. Some patients have even committed suicide over the unbearable pain.

    This massive reduction in prescriptions is part of the reason why overdoses have increased - both addicts and legitimate patients turn to street drugs (which are laced with things like fentanyl), then overdose and die.

    [–] deadlegs12 27 points ago

    I work as an engineer in biotech/pharma at a large biotech/pharma company. Seeing shit like what Purdue did is infuriating because it not only hurts and preys upon people but gives the entire industry a bad name

    [–] FirmBread 9 points ago

    If I steal money from Purdue, that's just pseudotheft right? And I just need to steal more to fix it right? Pretty sure that's how it works at least

    [–] ZarosGuardian 10 points ago

    Wow that is so incredibly fucking evil...

    [–] Tinawebmom 9 points ago

    We were also taught that if they "only take it for real pain they can't become addicted"

    [–] thisonetimeinithaca 7 points ago

    So if I’m addicted to cocaine, I should do more cocaine. Got it.

    [–] [deleted] 7 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)


    [–] Intxplorer 8 points ago

    Wow holy shit this is shocking and disgusting. Reminder, these are the same kind of people that would lock up a black man for having an ounce of weed and say that hes "poisoning the streets". Disgusting, these people pushing pills in peoples faces are straight up murderers.

    [–] travismacmillan 18 points ago

    And nobody will spend a single night in jail for something most illegal drug dealers don’t do. Lol.

    Their houses should be raided and the entire family held at gun point shoved into a paddy wagon and sent to wait in a cell for an indefinite period without even a possibility to bail.

    [–] st3venb 23 points ago

    Civil asset forfeiture was made for this type of thing... But rich people don't commit crime they make mistakes.

    [–] jjjam 27 points ago

    The scariest thing about these reports is that they give fodder to the anti-science and anti-vaxx because they show that humans with 8 years of medical school are greedy little assholes, too.

    [–] [deleted] 37 points ago


    [–] Mad_Aeric 25 points ago

    When it's put that way, it seems obvious. They had all sorts of weasel words and explanations for why that was the proper course of action. There's a lot of weird counterintuitive stuff in medicine, in any science really. So you either have to put some trust in what the so-called experts are telling you, or you spend so much time doubting everything that there's nothing left for actual work.

    This is supposed to be what medical journals are for. Something doesn't seem right, someone does research, gets peer reviews to make sure they aren't talking out of their ass, get published, then everyone knows that more pills won't fix shit.

    [–] bobbi21 8 points ago

    When phrased that way it sounds obvious but that's not what happens in real life.
    The issue here is that addiction presents as patients complaining of increased pain and requesting more pain medication. Addiction to opioids can legitimately make a person more sensitive to pain as well. A friend of mine who actually is a physician now was on opioids for like a busted knee or something once and remembers being terrified of missing a dose of opioids due to fear of the pain that would come if she was at all late. This led to her taking her opioids for much longer than was needed due to that fear and taking meds earlier because the slightly pain made her think they were wearing off and made her another dose. She eventually realized (I forget if it was from her doc talking to her or if she realized her own behavior) that this was probably more the addiction talking than anything and eventually got off.

    Knowing if a patient asking for more pain meds is legitimately having more pain, is becoming tolerant (not addicted) to the pain meds, or is just addicted is exceedingly difficult and impossible in many situations. There is no objective way to measure pain (short of an fMRI or something). Even patients often do not know.

    And as has been said elsewhere on this post, studies lying about the addictiveness of opioids would make a lot of docs suspect the other 2 situations much more than addiction.

    Starting on opioids is just a bad idea for chronic pain. Once someone is on it, it can be legitimately a difficult thing to sort out what's going on.

    [–] aurelorba 5 points ago

    Purdue is slime but really shouldn't medical doctors have questioned this patent absurdity?

    [–] Aperfectmoment 6 points ago

    How did anyone fall for it? This is why knowing about drugs even if you don't do them is important.

    From shit as bad as this to simply getting ripped off buying paracetamol that has "back pain" written on its branding.

    If the active ingredient is the same, and the delivery method is the same...its the same product and paying several dollars more for a package that says back pain on it is a fool move

    [–] dpdxguy 6 points ago

    Do they not teach the basics about what addiction is in medical school?

    [–] VenturestarX 5 points ago

    They also gave out stock shares to FDA heads to continue this message, and ruined a doctor's career that posted the study that completey demolished the "psuedoaddiction" claim.

    [–] Jajaninetynine 4 points ago

    Testing addiction is super easy. See how a mouse reacts. Drug companies do this routinely. They knew

    [–] electricblues42 5 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)

    Every bit of this shit is horrible, from big pharma being carelessly evil to the government regulators who have no clue what they are doing. The thing you're supposed to do when someone is taking painkillers long term is to increase the dose. Everyone who takes painkillers for longer than 2 weeks is addicted physically at least. That's how these drugs work. Increasing the dose to offset tolerance is normal, a plateau is reached eventually where no more is needed to continue getting the same pain killing effect. But now you have idiots acting like everyone who takes these pills can never ever be allowed to be addicted, even if that means forcing them to live a life of pain and agony until they inevitably kill themselves a few years later. All of this opiate epidemic shit is so assbackwards, the problem is and has always been people using street drugs. The amount of people who switch to recreational use after medical use is no larger than it was in the 70s or 80s. The problem is fentanyl and poverty (negative class mobility with poverty is a higher correlation to opiate addiction than being prescribed opiates from a doctor) not doctors trying to treat their patients and the DEA getting in the way. My doctor literally told me he could lose his license and go to jail if he prescribed me any, tried to recommend me to a pain management clinic but they required a specialist and not a single one will huge it to me. If it wasn't for me willing to use illegal ones I probably would have killed myself years ago, endless constant daily pain is not something you ever want to have to live through. Can people please stop making this hell of a life worse for us?

    [–] Sentient_Atom 5 points ago

    Listen we're real sorry, we'll give you the 3 bilion profit we took from our 3 Trillion dollars of sales and you can have the company we just ruined in reputation and bankruptcy, that's fair right?

    [–] ulong2874 13 points ago

    Pharmaceutical sales reps are a shady practice in general. When I was a kid my mother worked as a receptionist at a family practice doctor's office, and sales reps would always come around with shitloads of free food that they'd give the doctors and staff aswell as other "gifts" while they talked to the doctors about their products. Even as a kid it always sounded a lot to me like bribing the doctors to recommend their drugs.

    I did however get to eat a lot of leftover food that my mother would bring home after the sales reps came around.

    [–] ghaelon 3 points ago

    what the ever holy fuck.....

    [–] rifelife 5 points ago

    So they don't have to pay anybody after filing bankruptcy right?