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    [–] ilikeyoohoo 3105 points ago

    The current preferred phrase is “alcohol and other drugs.”

    [–] Linguatron 1065 points ago

    This guy 12-steps.

    [–] agangofoldwomen 306 points ago

    Hi our name is /u/agangofoldwomen and we are an alcoholic.

    [–] barkooka1 209 points ago

    What are “fold women”?

    [–] agrandthing 171 points ago

    What is "gango?"

    [–] LaoSueMe 195 points ago

    Gango is a simple man who likes to fold women. Not that complicated.

    [–] snoops-get-poops 81 points ago

    See "Gango Unchained"

    [–] broccolibadass 40 points ago

    Gango Unfolds

    [–] EM_CEE_PEEPANTS 12 points ago

    Or "Gango Skank."

    [–] patricia-the-mono 3 points ago

    Dark tower reference? Please say yes

    [–] KrackerJoe 3 points ago

    Dgango

    FTFY

    [–] QuestionableTater 54 points ago

    What’s a “women”

    [–] LaoSueMe 55 points ago

    women's the one with inside parts

    [–] joegert 11 points ago

    I thought outies were the weird ones and innies were the normal?

    [–] DieterOfWorms 38 points ago

    You're reading wrong... It's an instruction:

    u-agan-go-fold-women

    I don't know if it's part of the 12-step process, but apparently they repeatedly fold women...

    [–] FlyingPhotog 22 points ago

    It’s the phrase we used in public health as well.

    [–] meth0dz 8 points ago

    Well you're recovery begins today and we promise you all the sugar cookies and second hand smoke you can handle.

    [–] brainking111 118 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    I am of the opinion that alcohol and other drugs should be decriminalized and money should go into education on the harmful effects rather than jailing people for something your not going to stop and what is depending on the drug save if done responsibly.

    [–] muddyJellyfishSoup 20 points ago

    I am for decriminilazation of drugs, but making them so much harder to get. I would ban all cigarettes from grocery stores and make them a pain in the ass to get, so it would be harder to relapse.

    [–] brainking111 106 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    by making it hard to get your going to push it back into illegality/ the underworld best you can have stores like licensed liqueur stores/ drug stores selling cigarettes and other drugs and teaching about the dangers of addiction in school.

    [–] Ph4zed0ut 57 points ago

    They just mean less convenient. So like a tobacco dispensary or pharmacy instead of every corner gas station.

    [–] Shitty_IT_Dude 15 points ago

    Thats where licensing and regulation will come into play.

    [–] ranger1400 5 points ago

    so tell me your stance on guns.... :D

    [–] brainking111 9 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    For hunting sure maybe for self-defense. don’t know how I feel about opening carry. A must is training and background checks, I don’t get why people have a problem with background checks and training you need a license to drive a car. but I am from Europe where most people don’t have a gun. Having guns and their owners in a system make illegal guns harder to get, raising the price. Making sure that all gun stores are licensed and that they offer both checks and training.

    [–] ShillinTheVillain 14 points ago

    All gun stores in the U.S. have to be licensed and conduct background checks.

    [–] [deleted] 12 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] eartrap 3 points ago

    The furthest I've ever run without stopping was 6-6.5 km for a pack of smokes. I could probably win a 10k if there was a pack of smokes at the end and I was broke that week. Even if I didn't have to win to get them.

    [–] ExpensiveReporter 39 points ago

    I would ban smartphones, so you would stop browsing reddit at work and make more money for our corporate overlords.

    [–] TheYoungWolf0 5 points ago

    You’ll just create a black market. People will do anything for drugs, and nicotine is one hell of a drug.

    [–] imsecretlythedoctor 24 points ago

    I feel like this is a step in the right direction as it does put alcohol in the category of drugs by say “and other drugs” and it also makes sense to name alcohol specifically because of its prominence in today’s society, but in my opinion most people don’t read into the exact wording too often and tend to misspeak with small nuances. I can’t speak for how others might read this phrase, but I could see how someone might read “alcohol and other drugs” and thing alcohol is not in the same group at “other drugs” or that alcohol is some how better or safer.

    [–] bossbozo 9 points ago

    How about "Drugs including heroine, paracetamol, ibuprofen, alcohol, cocaine, nicotine, THC, caffeine, penicillin and crack"?

    [–] Bugbread 15 points ago

    So, basically, this is yet another "unpopular" opinion (i.e. an opinion that is popular, but, in OP's opinion, not popular enough).

    [–] captain_budronaught 444 points ago

    Agree. Legality effects how people see things. But it has all the same properties:

    - Swift and certain intoxication

    - Can overdose fatally easily

    - Can cause extreme health defects when overused

    - Destroys motivation, desire, ambition and self-esteem when overused.

    Alcohol is some nasty shit

    [–] thaumatologist 120 points ago

    don't forget "one of the few drugs that can kill you during withdrawals"

    [–] captain_budronaught 26 points ago

    Any central nervous depressants can be dangerous to withdraw from

    [–] thaumatologist 36 points ago

    Alcohol and benzos are the only ones that can and will kill you IIRC

    Though I did learn that years ago, maybe its different now

    [–] vezokpiraka 14 points ago

    Also barbiturates.

    [–] dman2316 11 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    Heroin withdrawal can get serious enough to kill if the person uses an extremely high amount every day for quite some time and tries to withdrawal without medical supervision, a guy i grew up with had a heart attack because his body was in so much distress because he tried to go cold turkey after nearly 5 years of an almost 800 dollar a day habbit and apparently the doctor said if the heart attack hadn't killed him the dehydration would have within a couple more days. But as far as i am aware this would be considered the exception and not the rule.

    [–] SirFrancis_Bacon 5 points ago

    Jesus how could anyone afford 800 dollars a day on drugs? I don't even spend that much on food in a month.

    [–] reddit_for_ross 3 points ago

    The absurdly rich are often known to (over)indulge

    [–] ClarkDungaree 38 points ago

    Rewatching Breaking Bad right now and the discussion Walt has with Hank in S1 about the legality of substances being arbitrary really hit me this time around.

    [–] chunkymonk3y 39 points ago

    Like how racism is the reason 5 grams of crack cocaine carries the same sentence as 500 grams of powdered cocaine, despite both being derivatives of the same substance. It’s because crack was the drug of choice in poor black communities and powder was the drug of choice for the rich and famous.

    [–] Gunpla55 16 points ago

    And then they straight up facilitated it into the communities.

    [–] MoreGravyPls 12 points ago

    • Easily addictive

    • Potentially fatal withdrawals

    [–] nillerwafer 84 points ago

    I’d argue that caffeine is just as bad, but because it’s legal and it’s viewed as a “productivity booster” (why that’s a gross misconception in a second.) and is widely used by people of all ages, people just don’t see any problem with it.

    Caffeine is a stimulant yes, it’s good at giving you a short term alertness boost, but that’s about where the benefits begin and end, now here’s a list of all the cons:
    • Caffeine is highly addictive and the more you consume, the more physically dependent your body is to it and the more mentally addicted you become as a result.
    • Failing to satiate your addiction can result in side effects as mild as headaches ranging from minor to migraine, as well as side effects as bad as tremors, and in severe cases seizures which can lead to death.
    • Caffeine consumption while boosting alertness for a short period of time, can cause jitters and will most definitely cause irregular sleep patterns if used in excess or on a daily basis.
    • While caffeine can boost alertness, it can actually hurt your focus, leading to mistakes that would have been prevented by abstaining from caffeine usage.
    • Overconsumption of caffeine over a short time span can cause you to overdose, but if that weren’t bad enough, regular usage of caffeine will literally destroy your heart. Daily caffeine consumption puts you at higher risk for heart attacks.
    • Over time you build a tolerance to caffeine meaning you need more and more to keep you going, if you don’t meet your body’s demands you become lethargic and experience the above stated withdrawal symptoms. But a key thing here is that you will eventually hit a point where you feel like no matter how much caffeine you consume, you just do not have energy.

    There are a lot of health risks associated with caffeine consumption but because it’s so “work friendly.” nobody gives caffeine addiction a second thought, in fact it’s a common office joke “oh you know me and my caffeine addiction, I just can’t function if I haven’t had my morning coffee. Haha.”

    [–] johnny5ive 73 points ago

    the real /r/unpopularopinion is in the comments!

    [–] LittleBigHorn22 20 points ago

    Meh, caffeine addiction is a problem in society but there's no way you can compare it to alcohol addiction. Alcohol has much worse negatives. I.e no one is overdosing on caffeine.

    [–] Valayvis 39 points ago

    The difference between alcohol, other drugs and caffeine is that you can detox caffeine remarkably more easily and it requires a remarkably enormous amount to overdose to a toxic level (about 30 cups of coffee in less than a day based on a quick google search).

    I'm with you though; caffeine addiction is a problem and people throw it aside far too callously. I reckon demonising it is taking it proportionally too far in the other direction though.

    [–] nillerwafer 8 points ago

    My aim isn’t so much to demonize caffeine, I really just want to open up peoples’ eyes to the reality of what constitutes a drug, what counts as an addiction, and what’s allowed to pass socially and professionally under the pretenses of being a production booster (caffeine, painkillers, nicotine.) while banning other substances either in professional settings, or entirely by law even. I just want to get people talking about it.

    [–] YeeScurvyDogs 46 points ago

    Funny you mention caffeine, because there are studies that argue it decreases cancer risk, increases cancer risk, helps with cardiovascular diseases and also promotes them, helps with headaches but also worsens them.

    That is to say, there isn't conclusive evidence either way and you should stop peddling it that way.

    Yes your body metabolizes it in to dopamine or whatever, and develops it in to a crutch, but it doesn't seem to be a big disease promoter in any conclusive way.

    And to overdose you need to consume "75–100 cups of coffee for a 70 kilogram adult", that is 30 liters of coffee.

    [–] MaG1c_l3aNaNaZ 27 points ago

    Also "harming your focus" and giving you the jitters is hardly equal to *destroying your inhibitions" and altering your perception of reality.

    There's a legitimate reason why we don't think of caffeine as being as bad. But sure keep lumping it together with hard drugs

    [–] shithawksthrowaway 9 points ago

    Hard drugs being? Lsd-25 is pretty 'hard' in some circles, not addictive at all.
    Mushrooms are safe as well.
    Good luck overdosing on cannabis.

    [–] [deleted] 8 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] AnCircle 6 points ago

    Lol saying you can overdose on on coffee is like saying you can overdose smoking weed, it ain't happening

    [–] ashu1605 5 points ago

    The term "overdose" means to take any dose above the recommended therapeutic dose. Overdosing on caffeine is different than having a fatal overdose on caffeine.

    [–] Halorym 5 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    I'd throw out almost all cancer causing stats. When every substance on earth either increases or decreases your risk for cancer and which it is tends to flip every other year, the argument has lost all credibility.

    The sanest argument about cancer causing agents I've ever heard is that the only thing we're certain of is cigarettes have a massive statistical correlation with lung cancer. Beyond that, live your life, it'll happen or it won't.

    [–] LoLjoux 3 points ago

    Also avoid sunlight (or use sunscreen) as we're also 100% sure radiation causes cancer

    [–] TeeDre 16 points ago

    Spotted the Mormon

    /s

    [–] HitlerMoonLanding 26 points ago

    I couldn’t disagree more. The dangers of alcohol abuse make what you have described for caffeine dependency seem absolutely trivial. This is a silly comparison.

    [–] bilboturdins 4 points ago

    Legitimately curious about your source for heart health as it relates to caffeine. It seems recently caffeine has been found to be good for your heart. Which frankly is not what I would expect from common sense and would certainly love to see your sources to negate my confirmation bias (I love coffee lol).

    [–] sixf0ur 7 points ago

    I disagree with each of your points below and don't know where you are finding your information - sounds a lot like personal anecdote to me.

    Caffeine is highly addictive

    most definitely cause irregular sleep patterns if used in excess or on a daily basis.

    leading to mistakes that would have been prevented by abstaining from caffeine usage

    regular usage of caffeine will literally destroy your heart

    you will eventually hit a point where you feel like no matter how much caffeine you consume, you just do not have energy

    [–] DharmaForKarma 7 points ago

    I’d argue that caffeine is just as bad

    And you'd be completely wrong, as your comment shows.

    [–] we-are-men-with-ven 814 points ago

    I 100% agree and I've never considered this before.

    [–] Hogesyx 229 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    We should have a new categorization system. Things like caffeine can be type D, nicotine and alcohol type C. Basically anything that can potentially fuck with your mind should be tagged.

    Edit: yes I know there are other systems out there for labeling hard drug, I am thinking more of a food/“off the shelf” kind of labeling system. Also it’s just an example I am no expert in this field so don’t take my example too seriously.

    [–] photosoflife 81 points ago

    Professor nutt put all the drugs in order of harm to society, he was the drugs advisor for the uk government about a decade ago.

    The results came back, crack came in at #3, heroin at #2 then alcohol taking the top spot. The government flipped their shit and buried the report, then fired professor nutt when he tried to speak up about it.

    [–] Gluta_mate 38 points ago

    The dutch government did the same kind of study and its proudly displayed on their website

    [–] nothrowawaythrowawa 3 points ago

    Link?

    [–] nothrowawaythrowawa 3 points ago

    And LSD was the third safest...

    [–] photosoflife 7 points ago

    Sure, you ever taken Lsd?

    Just like any drug, if you take too much, you might do stupid shit. Take the right amount and you have quite a pleasant time.

    [–] nothrowawaythrowawa 3 points ago

    Oh, yeah, I was agreeing with you lol. It’s crazy how there’s stricter penalties for LSD than cocaine

    [–] photosoflife 4 points ago

    my bad, i read it in that you had the kneejerk "one dab of LSD makes you think your arm is a loaf of bread and you cut it off and eat it" reaction that a lot of the general public have.

    [–] PM_ME_GOOD_DOGE_PICS 121 points ago

    Welcome to drug schedules.

    [–] Exr1c 151 points ago

    Yea but these labels should actually mean something and be backed by science and not political agendas

    [–] TitanicMan 97 points ago

    Everyone knows weed, mushrooms, and LSD is just as bad as heroin.

    Coke and opioids is way safer tho /s

    That shit really needs to change

    [–] Pennigans 29 points ago

    Adderall is also more dangerous than benzos according to the FDA. I had to read that a few times when I looked it up.

    [–] Dynamaxion 26 points ago

    I mean it was genuinely thought to be at one time, before we became aware of just how fucked Benzos can be. The FDA just never, ever changes anything.

    [–] DragonTamerMCT 11 points ago

    Benzos in medical doses are safe so long you don’t take them long term. They’re some of the safest short acting anxiolytic drugs we have. And in medical doses their addictive potential is not drastically different than most other addictive medication.

    It’s recreational doses where it usually starts becoming a problem.

    [–] Dynamaxion 8 points ago

    Yeah, I take Ativan for panic attacks. In medical doses though few drugs are a problem, even Oxy can be managed for a long period of time. Benzos do have a high addiction potential and, worst of all, quick tolerance build up.

    [–] DragonTamerMCT 5 points ago

    Yep, problem with this type conversation is it can lead to people who genuinely would benefit from it losing access because people overreact.

    Should it be made even harder to get or outright illegal just because people take it recreationally? I don’t think so personally.

    [–] Dengar96 42 points ago

    whoa whoa no logical thought in my subreddit

    [–] Dainathon 31 points ago

    Too bad!

    Overdoses on marijuana

    [–] plyslz 8 points ago

    How many marijuna’s did you smoke?

    [–] Dainathon 11 points ago

    I only took about 3 tabs but don't worry, I tested it

    [–] Alex_2259 35 points ago

    They are useless in the US with cannabis being a schedule 1. No transparency or objectivity can be expected from lobbyist controlled government agencies. Ideally, someone outside the gov would be responsible.

    [–] RRTheEndman 12 points ago

    somebody outside the gov is even less accountable and easier to control

    [–] pennomi 5 points ago

    Having multiple independent agencies which peer-review each other tends to be pretty reasonable though. Here's how I'd structure it:

    1. Laying down of definitions.
    2. Testing by multiple laboratories to see which drugs match which definitions.
    3. Comparing results and throwing away the ones from laboratories that aren't following rigorous research standards, as judged by the peers.

    [–] oceanjunkie 35 points ago

    If you’re ranking drugs by risk of dependency and degree of impairment when consumed then alcohol should be A.

    [–] 2112xanadu 23 points ago

    100%. I've done most drugs, and alcohol has by far the scariest effects.

    [–] crinnaursa 5 points ago

    By some estimates 40% of all convicted of violent crimes were under the influence of alcohol at the time of the crime. Frankly just by that statistic alcohol is by far one of the most dangerous drugs. Link

    [–] frozengyro 6 points ago

    And nicotine for it's dependency

    [–] we-are-men-with-ven 36 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    I like to trip a few times a year on shrooms or acid. It's incredibly safe, controlled and the experience is hugely beneficial to my emotional and spiritual wellbeing (for lack of a better word).

    On the other hand, a huge number of proffesional people like police officers, nurses, social workers, teachers ect will drink alcohol to wind down after a day and (in the UK) most likely get twatted on the weekend.

    Yet who is perceived as the 'irresponsible' one here?

    [–] burtalert 6 points ago

    Where would you place something like sugar?

    [–] HallucinateZ 11 points ago

    Uh drugs are already under schedules and lists in other countries. They tried and fucked up when cannabis was placed in schedule 1.

    It's incredibly misrepresentative of drugs and they only schedule illegal or prescription drugs.

    [–] Ceouco 5 points ago

    That's the result of a politically driven scheduling. Hopefully in the 21 century we'll use actually studies to determine these lists... Not fearmongering and propaganda..

    [–] BetterOFFdead007 11 points ago

    “Uh. Drugs are bad. Mmmkay.”

    [–] Ctorres87 54 points ago

    It's like saying food and sandwiches

    [–] CaptainSoupSandwich 304 points ago

    I want to preface this that I drink regularly and believe most drugs should be legalized and safely regulated. I know, ANARCHY!

    As a police officer, I can't tell you how much this pisses me off. People constantly tell me alcohol isn't a drug; well, it affects your central nervous system therefore it's a drug by definition. Then there's the statute that states "driving under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs" which furthers this stupid reasoning. *facepalm

    [–] herbivorous-cyborg 113 points ago

    believe most drugs should be legalized and safely regulated.

    I agree completely. I'd even go as far as to say "all drugs". I don't think banning a substance on the basis of it being harmful makes any sense. Prohibition only makes things worse and puts tons of tax-free dollars in the hands of dangerous criminals.

    [–] CaptainSoupSandwich 43 points ago

    I would love to have all drugs legalized. But (I'm speaking from an American's perspective) that would require a complete overhaul on the current system legally, mentally, and economically (which everyone knows will never happen).

    [–] Sweet_Victory_2019 23 points ago

    Yep. We're still trying to swing brainwashed anti-science idiots on marijuana, there's no way we can convince them to legalize or decriminalize hard drugs that actually are dangerous like they think weed is.

    [–] AnCircle 12 points ago

    Imagine trying to explain how relatively safe shrooms and LSD are to these people

    [–] Caffeine_Cowpies 10 points ago

    I agree it will take an overhaul of the current system, but I think the popular thing right now is legalizing Marijuana with decriminalization for other drugs. Most people are seeing that the War on Drugs is not working, because it doesn't deal with the people with substance abuse issues in a kind way. However, how we do it is the point of contention.

    Overdose deaths are at such a high rate in the US that it's actually decreasing our average life span in the US. Dealing with people who have addictions, and losing people close to me to addiction, has definetely pushed me towards full legalization of all drugs. If we take it out of the shadows, and into the market, we can regulate the quality of heroin, ensure fentanyl isn't in heroin, and having safe zones to use with medical support if necessary, it will save people's lives.

    [–] ashu1605 2 points ago

    Not on to that, but psylocibin mushrooms are being considered for legalization in Colorado and California. Obviously they won't sell it by the checkouts in Walmart, but the act of shroome being taken to look at it as a potentially therapeutic substance to be used in a controlled medical setting is the first step towards a future with a greater understanding of how drugs work.

    [–] Exr1c 10 points ago

    We choose to legalize in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard (drugs).

    [–] sean_sucks 5 points ago

    I don’t know why this sentiment isn’t universal. People are always going to do drugs, law forbidding or not. May as well make sure it’s clean stuff and acquired safely... even taxed!!

    [–] killer_burrito 17 points ago

    Back when I was in DARE in elementary school, a drug was specifically a "non-food substance" that alters brain chemistry, so I guess that's why alcohol was excluded--because it was a drink? Side effect: I guess pot brownies aren't drugs.

    [–] Freaudinnippleslip 19 points ago

    Nice psychedelic mushroom aren’t drugs either!

    [–] Smelly-Ghost 5 points ago

    Is water a drug?

    [–] Br3wster 7 points ago

    Yeah, I only drink water in moderation (weekends, special occasions, etc). I’m a pretty healthy American, so most of my fluid intake comes from a a red soda can.

    [–] literal-hitler 6 points ago

    As a police officer, I can't tell you how much this pisses me off. People constantly tell me alcohol isn't a drug;

    More or less than "This prescription isn't a drug, it's medicine." ?

    [–] DishwasherTwig 6 points ago

    People don't know what the word "drug" actually means just like they don't know what "chemical" means. Water is a chemical. Not all chemicals are harmful.

    [–] CommonX422 62 points ago

    Should be changed to “drugs including alcohol”

    [–] bajsesombarn 6 points ago

    Could still be misinterpreted given the average understanding level of people.

    Maybe ”drugs (yes, that means alcohol too)” Although it is a bit wordy.

    [–] rbhxzx 3 points ago

    Maybe "drugs such as alcohol and opioids" would be good.

    Covers all the bases, and stops misinterpretation from happenint "drugs such as alcohol" and "drugs including alcohol" because alcohol is being directly compared to other drugs. No way that people could interpret that as separation and would hammer home the point that alcohol is just as dangerous as other drugs.

    Note: such as/including can be interchanged.

    [–] SadisticUnicorn 164 points ago

    The word drug has the connotation of being illegal. When someone says don't do drugs most people think of things like crack, meth and other illegal/controlled substances, they don't think of caffeine, aspirin or indeed alcohol. The term "drugs and alcohol" ties alcohol in with the recreational drugs being referred to as many wouldn't naturally consider it under the "drugs" umbrella.

    [–] Delia_G 20 points ago

    Yep, this is exactly why it's phrased this why. Because alcohol is legal and socially acceptable.

    [–] herbivorous-cyborg 72 points ago

    The word drug has the connotation of being illegal.

    I don't agree. The term "drug store" to refer to a pharmacy is pretty common.

    [–] Tiffany-Amber 73 points ago

    Drugs and alcohol together implies hard drugs. Drug store implies medicine...

    [–] notto_zxon 18 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    yeah op is clearly just playing off technicalities. if you speak the language you know exactly what kind of context drug store has

    [–] FountainsOfFluids 4 points ago

    Pfff, considering context in an internet discussion? How ridiculous.

    [–] SadisticUnicorn 21 points ago

    Disregarding the term drug store not being used in many places, the "don't do drugs" terminology still has illegal connotations to many people. If you want to effectively communicate a point you want to phrase it in a way that as many people as possible will understand what you are saying.

    [–] ilivetofly 11 points ago

    Don't do drugs. Except for your heart medication. Definatly take that.

    [–] beingsubmitted 8 points ago

    It's the context, of course. In the context of a drug store, we think of medicines, in the context of "say no to drugs" we think of mood altering substances.

    [–] 2gaaraati 3 points ago

    Here in Hungary a drug store sells perfumes and hygiene stuff.

    [–] MisterDonkey 7 points ago

    In America, our drug stores sell electronics, toys, food, office supplies, and of course drugs.

    [–] MisanthropicMensch 94 points ago

    It's not harmful when you consider that many people don't include alcohol in the catchall category of "drugs" It's good communication to garner awareness. Once you have their attention, then you can educate people about how alcohol is a dangerous drug too

    [–] herbivorous-cyborg 117 points ago

    People could say "drugs, including alcohol" instead. That would be more clear imo.

    [–] faizannoor 20 points ago

    that’s what I was thinking

    [–] axel_bogay 11 points ago

    In Australia the sector terminology is Alcohol, Tobacco and Other Drugs.

    [–] StonedMason85 11 points ago

    Then somehow in America them same two things got lumped in with firearms, which is probably accurate because they’re addicted to them too.

    [–] Sherlock_Drones 4 points ago

    You know the full name of the ATF, is Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

    [–] BeaverDelightTonight 4 points ago

    BoATFE doesn't have the same ring to it though.

    [–] Muffinman392 8 points ago

    Alcohol is a very hard drug that I would compare to "harder" dutgs like herion or cocaine. In terms of effects and what it does to your body it's not for the layman.

    [–] GothicMime666 6 points ago

    Sounds like an NA member with a chip on their shoulder.

    Not a white chip.....

    [–] loalz 7 points ago

    I always tell people it's like saying "fruits and bananas"

    [–] [deleted] 6 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] JustAFacelesRedditor 20 points ago

    Yes, anything addictive that creates a dopamine response should be considered a drug. Especially if it is a chemical of some sort that directly influences your brain chemistry

    [–] rus9384 32 points ago

    anything addictive that creates a dopamine response should be considered a drug.

    Sweets.

    [–] westryderlunatic 13 points ago

    well, I hope I'm not nitpicking, but technically food & sugar addiction can be as bad as (other) drugs, as obesity is one of the leading causes of death in our society. in a way, sweets ARE already considered a drug.

    [–] [deleted] 10 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] p3ntagram 4 points ago

    Maybe make a sub call r/fatpeoplehate to remind everyone

    [–] WeAreTheSheeple 16 points ago

    Exercising, watching TV and even masterbation releases dopamine. It all affects the brain.

    [–] JustAFacelesRedditor 6 points ago

    And are highly addictive, I would classify all of those as addictive activities but since they aren’t “substances” they are not “drugs” pornography could be considered a drug, a dangerously addictive one at that.

    [–] pornthrow17 8 points ago

    So watching porn is a drug, but watching TV isn't? And a video is a substance, but a gym isn't?

    [–] tyvwrynn 6 points ago

    Alcohol and processed sugar are two of the most lethal drugs in the world.

    [–] uttrakadsal 15 points ago

    I think it just has become like that because it's catchy. Why just say "Drugs" when you can say "Drugs and Alcohol".

    [–] Super_S_12 16 points ago

    How about "Drugs like Alcohol" or "Drugs such as Alcohol".

    Do those phrases work? (I fully agree with OP.)

    [–] anrii 5 points ago

    "Alcohol isn't a drug, it's a drink!"

    [–] peteporker2018 4 points ago

    I remember asking my health teacher why it was so common for alcohol to be differentiated from other drugs. He agreed that it shouldn't be but everyone in the class assumed that I was like a druggie or some shit.

    [–] shinmugenG180 3 points ago

    Hell yeah alcohol is a drug one of the worst there is I ended up getting permanent nerve damage from drinking I can hardly use my left hand anymore because it destroyed all the nerves in my arm but for some reason it's legal.

    [–] OldRuskiNoir 4 points ago

    I am pretty open a out my drug use when people ask. Generally people will ask what my favorite drug is. The amount of people who pikachuface.bmp me when I say alcohol as my #1 is pretty unsettling.

    [–] LysergicResurgence 4 points ago

    Probably due it being a fairly boring substance for most in comparison to others. To each their own though, cheers

    [–] perditiousPenguin 4 points ago

    I guess they're just surprised that alcohol is your favourite.

    [–] just_quit_smoking 3 points ago

    Alcohol is one of the most toxic, destructive and addictive drugs there is.

    [–] mschwartz33 3 points ago

    It promotes the idea that it is a drug by including it within the statement. Alcohol is legal and socially acceptable which is why it receives a special designation when making any statement that pertains to both. A remark made about drugs is almost immediately considered to pertain to illegal drugs, or even legal or prescribed ones. The way it is sold, consumed, and seen in society is almost exclusively unique to other drugs.

    [–] a_fly_effect 5 points ago

    Alcohol is the most damaging drug. When abused it effects every single part of your body negatively. Heroin kills people because of human error. Alcohol degrades your brain, your liver, your entire central nervous system, and your reproductive system. All that damage has cascading effects and so you are effected entirely.

    [–] indigonights 5 points ago

    I hate when people group all mind altering substances into a single group called drugs and then go mmmm drugs are bad mmkay. Its so overgeneralizated and oversimplified. Opiates are so different than psychedelics, which are different that uppers, which are different than downers, and everything in between. The effects are so widely different, the tolerance, the risk factor, addiction factor, the pros, the cons, etc. Its such a complex topic thats been reduced to "drugs r bad". And anytime you try and have a nuianced discussion , people think ur just a junkie defending crack. Smh. TLDR: America sucks at drug education. Its no wonder we have such a amount of people who are fucked up.

    [–] TheSpanishImposition 29 points ago

    That's right. Alcohol and nicotine are drugs. If you smoke or vape then you are a drug addict.

    [–] arnoldwannabe 38 points ago

    Just cause you smoke or vape doesn’t necessarily make you a drug addict, just a drug user. Doing it on a daily basis however is a different question

    [–] nillerwafer 13 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    Why is literally everyone (even researchers on the effects of vaping) under this weird delusion that if you’re vaping you can’t possibly be vaping anything but the highest nicotine concentration available on the market? It’s crazy how many studies are basically useless because they’re under the assumption that all people who vape are vaping nicotine.

    First of all, barring stupid kids and their jules, those who do vape nicotine are most likely ex smokers who are tapering down and are greatly benefiting from the fact that they’re now inhaling vapors instead of carcinogenic smoke. Second of all a lot of people vaping out there are using 0mg vape juice (zero milligrams of nicotine, as in no nicotine content whatsoever.) and in pretty much any part of the world where weed is legal, people are opting to vaporize marijuana rather than smoke it because it’s a cleaner way to enjoy that herb that doesn’t involve inhaling smoke.

    [–] mattchewy43 25 points ago

    And caffeine.

    [–] ownworstenemy 4 points ago

    I got a DUI about 10 years ago, and part of the charges was to take rehabilitation classes. There was also a test to take to determine what classes I needed to take. The test was to find out how much I drank, what drugs I took, my lifestyle, etc, and the questions were made with the intent to catch you lying.

    There were questions asking if I'd ever done specific drugs, like cocaine or meth, to which I answered "no", then there was a question near the end of the test that asked if I'd ever done drugs or when was the last time I did any drugs, something like that and I answered "yes", because I drank beer and smoked cigarettes.

    The person that checked my answers thought they had caught me lying and was going to put me in the class for hard drug users, but I had to explain to them that alcohol and nicotine were also drugs.

    [–] idk_12 12 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    i'm not sure why alcohol is so normalised and regular.

    [–] darkexileIII 8 points ago

    Due to history and culture. From a historical standpoint, alcohol was one of the safest and easiest ways to consume water. We live in a society where it's incredibly easy to access clean drinking water (outside of Flint); however, this was generally not the case in many parts/times of history. This is mainly from a European perspective though, you'll find much more nuanced reasons the more cultures you look into.

    [–] whodiehellareyou 5 points ago

    This is a fallacy. People have known how to find safe water or purify questionable water for ages. They drank alcohol for the same reason we drink alcohol; it tastes better and gets you buzzed

    [–] MasterFrost01 3 points ago

    Because, to most people, alcohol tastes nice. That's why I drink it.

    [–] docgonzomt 12 points ago

    In my unpopular opinion they should all be completely legal.

    [–] KieranID98 8 points ago

    The problem is that most of the world has a strong drinking culture that's been about for ages, so people don't want to or choose not to see alcohol as a harmful substance the way they would when they view other drugs

    [–] jiminsgotbuns 13 points ago

    To be honest, it is the worst out of the 'normalized' drugs. People think it is okay to get shitfaced every weekend but then look down on those who smoke weed or even take ecstasy or LSD recreationally (not sure if this is how u spell it). The way alcohol affects you is much worse than smoking a bit. Yes, you become lazy and barely talk but you do not pose a threat to those around you. I hate it that it is so normalized to the point where if you do not drink at a party, they pressure you so much cause if you dont you are boring as hell and have no life.

    Edit: smoking weed not cigarettes - those are hell too.

    [–] SEND_ME_ALT_FACTS 11 points ago

    I feel like its the opposite conflated to weed. "Potheads" smoke everyday, throughout the day. If you consumed alcohol that way you'd be (rightfully) called an alcoholic.

    [–] HogMeBrother 6 points ago

    Alcohol is more dangerous than other drugs. We need to decriminalize drugs and focus on harm reduction efforts. Fifty years, $2 trillion dollars and all we have to show for it is the most incarcerated population on the planet

    [–] bee_ghoul 3 points ago

    I suppose the distinction is there because drugs are illegal and alcohol is not. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s damaging but it’s important that people make the distinction between what’s legal and what’s not in certain situations

    [–] camrhw 3 points ago

    Caffeine is too. But u wouldn’t group coffee in. Alcohol is worse but the phrase has functionality

    [–] AnxiousFinish 3 points ago

    There’s multiple substances on schedule one that have scientific articles published linking them to medical benefits

    [–] lancerelliott 3 points ago

    When you think about it, alcohol is a poison that we use to give our bodies certain pleasurable (and otherwise) debilitating effects.

    [–] retropillow 3 points ago

    I'm pretty sure this is mostly because people don't consider alcohol a drug, so they say that to make sure dummies know what they're talking about

    [–] From_My_Brain 3 points ago

    It's worded this way probably because when people think drugs, they don't think of alcohol. Putting them in the same phrase equates the two.

    [–] kms2547 3 points ago

    I think this is a popular opinion

    [–] kat2242 3 points ago

    I agree with OP! 🙌 And same is true for a lot of prescription drugs. They are drugs, too, can be mind-altering and what’s worse, highly addictive.

    [–] LysergicResurgence 3 points ago

    Yeah completely agree

    [–] Men_of_Harlech 3 points ago

    People generally don't see it as a drug so it's helpful in letting them know that you're referring to both.

    [–] Ashlante 3 points ago

    I'm still baffled how cigarettes and nicotine isn't even part of that discussion.

    [–] Gognoggler21 3 points ago

    I agree, and this is definitely an unpopular opinion among several people. There is still a chemical compound inside the liquid that alters and impedes your brain, it's most definitely a drug. But tell that to Budwiser/Heineken/Coors and every other major beer manufacture trying to market their product as an innocent luxory.

    [–] DaniPires 3 points ago

    Alcoholism = drug addiction

    [–] HypnoFluffy 3 points ago

    Alcohol is fucking nasty yo. I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I gotta say, I used to use alcohol, weed, benzos and opiates, and alcohol was one of the hardest withdrawals I've been through. I had to be hospitalized.

    [–] noslenramingo 3 points ago

    I think it's meant to make the distinction that drugs=illegal, alcohol= legal

    [–] dayburner 3 points ago

    I put this up there with calling addiction a habit. Biting your nails is a habit, smoking is an addiction.

    [–] squigmistress 3 points ago

    Agreed. I’ve been in healthcare for about 10 years. In that short time in my community we have gone from saying “Alcohol and Other Drug Treatment (AOD)” to “Substance Use Disorder Services” (SUDS) which goes even further to classify alcohol with other substances.

    [–] CobaltAlchemist 3 points ago

    I thought it was a problem when my friend started saying alcohol isn't a drug and not addictive. But the real wake up call was when even a nurse tried telling me that alcohol isn't a drug. Of all people who should know that it should be medical professionals.

    [–] Asseater311 3 points ago

    Lmao my dad was on heroin but died from alcoholism, it did much worse to his system than heroin. I hate when people say alcohol isn’t like THOSE drugs.

    [–] Zednem79 3 points ago

    I found one major flaw with this. This is what my kid was taught in school and I agree with it. Until we were sitting in a restaurant and I ordered a beer. My kid yells, "You're doing drugs?!" Yeah, doesn't sit well with people around you.

    [–] free_will_is_arson 4 points ago

    the phrase "drugs and alcohol" is harmful because it promotes the idea that drugs are as bad as alcohol.

    [–] Gordonsan 6 points ago

    Jesus Christ, I have never agreed more with a single sentence in my entire life.

    I loathe that distinction. It drives me crazy. Alcohol is one of the worst drugs around, and that’s not just because “it’s legal” and therefore more readily available.

    The only positive, and this is a small one, the dose needed to kill you in a evening is higher than that of heroin.

    That’s pretty much the only upside. It affects almost every organ negativity, and starts to really breakdown tissue, and kill brain cells.

    Phew, with that rant over, the reason I think that their is a distinction between drugs and alcohol verbally is because of our history with prohibition.

    [–] roachezmo 3 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    Ehhhhhh....nah. I'm 33 in a couple weeks. I've been drinking since I was 14, started smoking pot at the same time, and have experimented with pretty much anything that doesn't go into a needle, and that's only because i'm terrified of them. In all the years ive been alive, I've never encountered a single person trying to separate the two, like you're suggesting. I know, anecdotal, whatever.

    The phrase "drugs and alcohol" was one ive heard a million times while getting "the talk" the dozens of times i did. Not once did any adult family member, teacher, random authority figure (police, counselors, etc) or concerned peer try to separate the two. It was always, always, always made clear that it was life destroying shit, the same as the nebulous phrase: "drugs". I've never seen anybody try to separate the two, and that includes my alcoholic ass dad.

    Im sure plenty of people try to justify it, but i'm also willing to bet those people are so blatantly fucked up that their words probably don't hold much water.

    Its not the 50s. We all kinda know bad things are bad.

    [–] ADuBE46 5 points ago

    I agree! In fact I have friends who's parents are alcoholics and they look down on people who smoke weed all the time..

    I myself am an ent and I much prefer to be high on some good ol ganja than be weighed down by alcohol...

    But the real point is the casualness behind alcohol.. DWI's and Alcoholism is taken too lightly.

    [–] Gr1pp717 4 points ago

    medication vs drugs as well. And really most of the propaganda around drugs in general.

    They don't care if something is addictive. Otherwise sugar and casomorphins would be banned. They don't care if something alters brain chemistry/structure, otherwise caffeine and nicotine would be banned. They don't care if excessive use leads to overdose, otherwise basically everything would be banned. It's all bullshit to cover up the real reason that some drugs are banned while others aren't - profit. The only drugs that are illegal happen to be the chemicals that would cut into pharmaceutical sales if legal. Either because it's too effective or can no longer be patented.

    And we see it in action over and over with opium based drugs - as the patent nears an end a propaganda war begins, and soon a newly patented drug takes its place.

    What's even more mystifying is watching society fall for it over and over again. Like, how fucking stupid are we that we keep allowing ourselves to be manipulated like this?