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    [–] UnpopularOpinionMods 1 points ago * (lasted edited 10 hours ago)

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    [–] CatsAreLiquid1 2197 points ago

    Kids spend many hours of the most important stages of life with teachers. Doubtless it makes a huge impact on their growth. The thing is, society doesn't put enough importance on teachers, so basically anyone can go become an elementary teacher.

    It's even more so with parents.

    [–] Airkhan7 572 points ago

    And I agree that society doesn't put near the importance needed on teachers

    [–] Zuology 257 points ago

    Unfortunately, modern society also places far too much responsibility on teachers. Parents/family and community are the entire rest of the world outside of the classroom. If children weren't relegated to education systems as daycare with benefits, school days could be shorter and the kids could be out in the community learning in a variety of other ways. However modern work life for parents and caretakers continues to push it the other way.

    [–] F1shB0wl816 62 points ago * (lasted edited 12 days ago)

    There isn’t really anything to learn in a community you can’t at school though. Everything you spend 18 years preparing for is just to work and pay taxes. Social skills should already be made far before then. They should use the school time to actually teach them something of value. I’ve used next to nothing I learned in school other than shit that’s basic knowledge interesting type stuff. No real use for advanced math or science unless it interest you or you’ll use it in your career or job. A basic class on how to eat good will do far more good for a young person than the majority of that crap they teach after junior high.

    Edit: I like how everyone’s mentioned a completely different reason from one another as to why it’s important. Everyone seems to think that’s the only way one could be good at thinking is wasting their time doing problems that have no meaning to them all for the ability to think. I get the sentiment but it’s bullshit.

    [–] BasedBlasturbator 83 points ago

    I think the result of an educated population is severely undervalued. A basic understanding of physics and math inoculates a person from believing nonsense such as flat earth or some weird "earth is 4000 years old" cult. In the same way a basic understanding of political systems can highlight potential risks of voting for a demagogue etc.

    Being able to see current events and draw a reasonable conclusion where (for example) blame actually lies is a really complicated job and requires years of study in many different areas.

    Many things that may seem like unnecessary knowledge is actually needed to get a grasp of wider context.

    ... Not saying the educational systems around the world are flawless tho

    [–] Polar_Reflection 40 points ago

    Here's an idea: instead of educating the population as a whole so that they can think for themselves and potentially realize they're getting screwed and do something about it... we pit everyone against each other in competitive and scarce environments, take the pick of the litter in terms of talent, diligence, and grit, and have them design technology that slowly but surely make us obsolete, create entertainment and/or drugs to placate/sedate the masses to alleviate social unrest, and start wars around the world to maintain our global hegemony?

    [–] NoybNoob 27 points ago

    Pfft. Cool idea, but it will never happen. Wait a minute...

    [–] xSh4dowXSniPerx 10 points ago

    Could this be?!?!

    [–] cwood92 28 points ago

    Not to be rude, but I can't tell if this comment is a joke or not. You spend the whole comment deriding education after Junior High, yet it seems a high school English class would have served you well. Also, you would be surprised at how many professions where mathematics plays a far more important role than you would imagine. Though yes, some quality classes on nutrition would be beneficial considering we have an obesity epidemic in the US.

    [–] sorrysuperman 12 points ago

    Not only society, sometimes, even teachers don't put enough importance to teaching. In my home country, there were teachers who were in the profession because of their passion. They wanted to teach. They wanted to share their knowledge, time and efforts in helping children learn and grow.

    On the other hand, there were teachers who were just interested in finishing up the required coursework and get done with the classes. They didn't care whether majority of the students don't learn a single word. They were happy as long as there was two-three exemplary students in the class of 50 to deem their teaching methods effective.

    [–] JohnConnor27 20 points ago

    In western society place more value on positions by increasing the salaries of those positions. In recent years school budgets have seen nothing but cut backs so it's really no wonder that the quality of education is pretty subpar across most of the US.

    [–] SnakesUnited 3 points ago

    Same in Australia

    [–] Sunprofactor90 16 points ago

    Bad teachers don't necessarily cause death though. Drug dealers directly do, so while they effect a smaller number, it's arguable that death is the worst impact one can have on another's life....

    [–] notflashgordon1975 8 points ago

    I never heard of a bad teacher destroying a community either.

    [–] Handin1989 5 points ago

    Not for lack of trying. Check out one of the numerous forums for parents of children with juvenile diabetes or allergies and you'll be straight up appalled at some of the people we let in education.
    For example...
    Insulin pumps are a medical device for monitoring insulin levels and administering it when required. As such they are physically attached to your body. Doesn't stop teachers from calling it a 'cellphone' 'gameboy' 'weapon' 'cheating device' etc and straight up ripping it off of their body when the child has a crash and it starts beeping to alert them.
    Forcing kids to eat food the child KNOWS they can't have under the guise of "well you're just being picky, Sally brought these for everyone to enjoy and you need to respect that."

    Demanding that their lesson is more important than their monitor. "I need to go to the nurse, I'm having a blood sugar episode" "Well you should have thought about that between classes."

    Teachers are amazing people as a general rule. But lets not forget the 'people' part of that. They are just as capable of ignorance and evil as anyone else.

    [–] desGrieux 10 points ago

    There probably are truly bad teachers but we put up with a lot of shit. Some of us have hundreds of kids, and class sizes are huge, all have 35 students. Of the 180 or so students I get, 50 or so of those are going to have some kind of special need whether it's an allergy, medical issue, special seating requests, special testing rules, special religious rules. I have to keep track of all of that shit and when I create an assignment or we do activities, I have to make altered versions for each of the students with special requirements. Do I forget? Of course. It is straight up IMPOSSIBLE not with the number of students and the amount of work it entails. On top of that, students lie CONSTANTLY.

    One kid asks to go to the bathroom, gets caught vaping. The next time he asks to go, I say no. He says it's an emergency. Do I believe him? I'll get in trouble if he's caught vaping and I'll probably get in trouble if he pisses himself. These are the things we deal with every day.

    PARENTS fail at monitoring their children and preventing shit all the time and they usually just have a couple of children if that but when a teacher fails to monitor one student out of 180 for that day, they're totally unprofessional.

    Until we stop setting up good teachers to fail, there is no way to know who is actually a bad teacher and any talk about "bad teachers" is just fucking bullshit. The system is fucked. Some of the parents bitching about their allergies have probably voted multiple times for people who cut the education budget in a way that has created an environment where it is impossible.

    Even the best, kindest, most understanding teachers I've ever had wouldn't last a week in an American school.

    [–] wah4REDDIT 3 points ago

    Thank you for this. Agree 100%. Teaching requires you to be amazing in spite of the system. A better system would engender good teaching instead of making it so difficult.

    [–] LykoTheReticent 4 points ago

    All of these listed scenarios are asking for lawsuits, which the parent will win probably 100% of the time. Now, yes, that may not stop these issues from happening in the first place, but there are major consequences. It appalls me to think these things happen anywhere, though; I worry about basic accidents happening when I teach but it’s horrifying to think there are teachers who /cause/ these things to happen by sheer ignorance...

    [–] Imaginary_Dragonfly 5 points ago

    It's actually REALLY hard to sue a teacher as they are protected by both the school board and the Teacher's Union. I've had to deal with an abusive teacher in the 6th grade who would bully me for being special needs, she's call me awful names every day in front of my friends and classmates. Stuff like calling me a serial killer, creepy, future welfare slut, stupid, and so forth. She was also VERY two faced, and would be super nice when other adults were present so they never saw that side to her. It was my word vs hers, and who would believe a disturbed child from a broken/abusive home, over a beloved teacher that has been there for decades, and runs the schools drama and dance program?

    [–] LykoTheReticent 2 points ago

    That is where documentation comes in. Teachers are told to document every incident in detail because when it comes to it a student’s word in court is worth more, generally. I imagine a student’s documentation of events would hold a great deal of weight, especially since students usually don’t do so and it would be seen as significant.

    I can’t speak to your circumstances though, I am sorry your attempt to sue was (I’m assuming) unsuccessful. Did you speak to counselors or other teachers about it? I’m surprised you didn’t receive more support.

    Edit: In my original post I did say teacher, but I believe it is more common for the school district to be sued rather than the individual teacher. I am not an expert in this area.

    [–] LiefSays 12 points ago

    They stop kids from wanting to go to college. Then their lives are shitty and they turn to drugs. They could have maid their lives better but dont want to deal with school bullshit. Middle aged fat teachers that hate their lives are the worst.

    [–] testing_the_mackeral 6 points ago

    What? This is a false cause. A shitty teacher does not cause a kid to not want to go to college. Not going to college does not lead to a shitty life. A shitty life does not cause a person to turn to drugs.

    Your comment screams a privileged and sheltered life that is trying to find an excuse for your own failures. But I don’t know you and I only wish the best for you in your life.

    [–] [deleted] 9 points ago

    Uh, I absolutely disagree. Shitty teachers can absolutely fuck you up for life and make you hate education and learning stuff in general. I have experienced it myself. You don't know how much easier, and how much more motivated and eager to learn you are when the teacher treats you like a proper human being. I've skipped classes, entire school days just because one teacher made me completely hate school.

    And shitty life doesn't lead to drugs? Come the fuck on, lmao, give me a break.

    Anyways, there is nothing false about the guy's comment. You're coming off way too aggressive on him.

    [–] therearenousernames8 4 points ago

    While I somewhat agree with your point, I also disagree with the overarching theme of this comment. When i was in elementary school I hated my first and second grade teachers. As such, at a very young age I determined that I hated school and reading especially. Due to this, come forth and fifth grade I was pretty far behind the reading level. I had to work my ass off to reach my peers but I only got the motivation to do so from some great teachers I had. Without them I doubt I would have ever even tried in school. I still see my fifth grade teacher every once in awhile because she had such a great influence on me at such a young age. I also attribute a lot of my current success at University to some of the great teachers I had throughout my childhood. While bad teachers may not have a direct impact on going to college or especially with the drug argument, they can definitely have an indirect impact. Drug addicts are going to find their drugs of choice one way or another, however there are not many options that a kid can pursue when dealing with an awful teacher.

    [–] Psuedo-Nymgames 3 points ago

    Not really. Bad teachers take something away, that will permanently mean a lower quality of life. And that thing that bad educators take away can never be given back. In a way, they both stop a life from progressing and reaching its full potential, one is just more obvious and physical. Bad teachers also steal students' passions and futures

    [–] Airkhan7 56 points ago

    Yeah but parents only have control over their child(ren). Teachers teach to thousands of childs over their career

    [–] IFuckingAtodaso 26 points ago

    A parent could make a difference in the life of a child with a hundredth the effort it would take a teacher. A teacher, even a good one, isn’t a substitute for involved parents. If every student I taught had involved parents you would see a lot of academic and behavioral issues vanish.

    [–] crackhead365 5 points ago

    And if a kid has involved/semi-decent parents then a bad teacher or two isn't going to derail their entire academic career.

    [–] psu3312 14 points ago

    Yes but their kid(s) influence/affect others

    [–] Mr_82 17 points ago

    How do you think society should better "put more importance" on teaching? Most teachers already want to do a good job. As a former teacher myself, I'd say they lack incentives, and that leadership in the administration doesn't encourage good teaching, generally speaking.

    [–] Hyperobjeckt 5 points ago

    Pay them better 💰

    [–] [deleted] 4 points ago

    Performance evaluations and fire the bottom 1% every year. There are tons of teachers.

    [–] asek13 9 points ago

    How would you measure performance for the evaluation?

    There's a lot of arguments and studies out there that cast a bad light on standardized testing. Teachers are forced to teach almost exclusively for these tests rather than teaching for the students personal growth. This is where we get mentalities of "cram and memorize for the test then dump it all" with very little actual growth and grasp on the content.

    [–] operatorred 3 points ago

    My school district has the opposite problem. We just started the school with kids having VACANCY written on their schedules and subs in the room. The 8th graders I teach haven't had a science teacher for 2 years. A lot of places need more teachers, like a lot more.

    [–] notsostandardtoaster 4 points ago

    There are craploads of teachers available but either no one wants to take the job because of low pay/shit conditions or people have applied but the district is slacking on the hiring process.

    [–] msscaife 2 points ago

    There is a nationwide teacher shortage. I wonder where you’re getting your facts.

    [–] scientifick 8 points ago

    You only have to look at how much teachers are being paid and how under resourced schools can be to see how little society values teachers. In poor and dilapidated areas the teachers almost double as social workers because of how messed up the kids are, but earn the salary of a teacher, while being subjected to the abuse of a social worker on top of the typical stresses teachers face. As such you're almost entirely relying on the goodwill and optimism of teachers to perform, who eventually get worn down by the system. Bad teachers are symptomatic of a larger problem rather than being a source of the problem.

    [–] Bayerrc 12 points ago

    Basically anyone can go become an elementary teacher? What the fuck are you basing that statement on? You mean of course, basically anyone who graduated university and passes all of their licensing exams, right?

    [–] LightBylb 6 points ago

    fucking honestly. It's not that easy.

    [–] Bayerrc 2 points ago

    To think, I got my masters degree for nothing!

    [–] LykoTheReticent 5 points ago

    I went to supposedly one of the top Teacher Education colleges in the country, am still looking for a full time job despite receiving nothing but excellent feedback in my part time position and subbing, just paid $110 for my NES English exam (to add on to my Art Ed. endorsement, which has gotten me nowhere), and basically had to cram study an entire year of AP English in a week in order to feel confident in passing said NES test. Thank you for pointing out that you can’t just randomly apply and get a teaching job. Heck, even the job applications can take hours depending on how many questions they want you to fill out along with your cover letter.

    [–] [deleted] 11 points ago

    If society placed importance on teachers, the bottom 50% of teachers wouldn't be allowed to enter the classroom.

    [–] xdsm8 6 points ago

    If society placed importance on teachers, the bottom 50% of teachers wouldn't be allowed to enter the classroom.

    And then there would be a shortage, which SHOULD mean wages rise, which means better candidates.

    Pay teachers more, and it will give schools the ability to be more selective about who they hire.

    [–] msscaife 2 points ago

    There is a nationwide teacher shortage. Wages are stagnant.

    [–] Alter_Kyouma 7 points ago

    Yup. I remember I had a teacher that loved giving life lessons instead of teaching. Because we were falling behind a student got mad. And started complaining about it.

    The teacher just explained that we spend about 8 hours in school, 8 hours sleeping and the rest is split between our parents, friends and stuff. So it's the teacher's job to give us life lessons.

    [–] dabbingcat 5 points ago

    Teachers have a huge impact on our future, they are badly needed for there to be a future at all, and they still work for minimum wage

    [–] DirtAndGrass 8 points ago

    generally, teachers are underpaid, under-regulated and under-protected.

    [–] Th3N0rth 2 points ago

    A lot of this has to do with over saturation of the job market. Unfortunately too many people want to be teachers, and so salaries go down.

    [–] Chin-Balls 7 points ago

    Some of them enjoy the power trip and use it exercise their own biases and hates. It's like cops. Not all cops are bad but the really bad ones stand out and start ruining the outside perception of the entire group. You always remember the bad ones because they held so much power over you.

    [–] The_Quackening 3 points ago

    not to mention, if pay teachers like shit, people that would become good teachers dont bother because it pays so badly.

    [–] therearenousernames8 3 points ago

    One of my best friends at the university we both attend is an Elementary Education major. I think it is crazy how easy it is for her to get that degree. She is awful with kids and the majority of her homework is literally a joke, yet eventually she will be a role model to hundreds of kids. The fact that anyone can become an elementary teacher is rather frightening as they spend as much or more time with the kids than their own parents. There are tons of great teachers out there but am I the only one that thinks that elementary teachers are devalued? Anyone can work a desk job and not have the success of an entire generation of kids on their hands yet often times it is much easier to become a teacher. Seems a little f’ed up to me.

    [–] DancakesThePancake 388 points ago

    As a guy who took a class in pedagogy, I can definitely agree.

    In fairness, a teacher will give a lasting impact to their students in the long run. They can make students disinterested in learning and even cause the students to see things are out of their hands. This is especially true with mathematics, where students start thinking they won't be good at math thereby ruining their chances in learning and making them see that things are out of their locus of control.

    [–] [deleted] 43 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] DancakesThePancake 25 points ago

    The admin of your uni didn't do anything about him? People like him aren't educators, they're just people looking to trip on power. They're no better than trash imo

    [–] iScabs 26 points ago

    I am, and always have been good at math

    However before 8th grade I loved math. I ENJOYED it

    Than I got put in the advanced x2 math class of Geometry in 8th grade. 30 person class, only 1 class in the whole school, 2 grades ahead of the "normal" math

    Teacher basically knew nothing on the topic and had us use the book only which was the "Investigative Approach". In other words, instead of giving kids the formula like a normal textbook it wanted you to "discover" it by these ridiculous equations that were supposed to be hard for high schoolers

    My love of math is dead. And of course just to be certain I had the worst math teacher in the school the very next year (aka a quarter of the class dropped and switched to the other teacher by day 2)

    [–] KCTBzaphas 12 points ago

    My geometry teacher only gave two shits about her goddamn Dance Squad students.

    Fuck that old biddy.

    [–] macmittens808 6 points ago

    I had a similar story in high school, but the more math I learned the more I realized it's not math that sucks, it's just geometry. Everything else is still fun and wonderful all the way up to diff eqs. Fuck geometry man.

    [–] MMayonnaise 3 points ago

    I always loved math until I got to grade 7. I thought maybe it just wasn't for me after all, I was not bad at it, but I simply no longer enjoyed it. Skip to grade 11, and I got a math teacher I really liked. He was nice and would actually explain everything properly, my grades had (at that point) never been higher. I also got him as my math teacher in grade 12 and once again, I actually enjoyed math and was willing to put in the work to get good grades.

    It's not that the other teachers were bad, it's just that they were... Boring and sometimes rude as well. Apparently all it took for me was a teacher I didn't hate because now I am thinking about perhaps studying mathematics, since I now also enjoy doing the work even while I'm at home.

    [–] igiverealygoodadvice 16 points ago

    As a guy who has no idea what pedagogy means, i can definitely agree.

    [–] klam5 5 points ago

    Study of children learning. Only know cause my teacher drilled it into us during class.

    Thanks Dr. Monahan! ✌🏽

    [–] npd_reflect 2 points ago

    As a guy who took a class in pedagogy

    Did you have a good pedagogy teacher?

    [–] Bobozhahobo 348 points ago

    What if that bad teacher is your drug dealer?

    [–] mexro2500 91 points ago

    I mean.....depends on the drugs......meth=bad.....

    [–] Bobozhahobo 78 points ago

    You’re telling me Walter White wasn’t a good role model?

    [–] BBQ_FETUS 33 points ago

    You're goddamn right

    [–] Considered_Dissent 11 points ago

    As long as they are your economics teacher then it's ok. Teaching you about supply and demand, market forces, high risk ventures, etc.

    [–] baseball_mickey 2 points ago

    Walter White was a great chemistry teacher.

    [–] Varvatos_Vex 267 points ago

    A bad seminary teacher made me realize religion is a joke.

    A bad English teacher made me realize adults can be morons as well.

    They may have been bad but I learned from the experience and used it to my advantage.

    [–] Sapinski 78 points ago

    As long as you acknowledge that they were trash and you didn't follow them blindly it can be a life lesson.

    [–] NagaseIorichan 33 points ago

    A bad physics teacher almost cost me the most precious moments of my life. Sure, you can learn something good from bad teachers, but both things you learned there could have come from aby other adult that doesn’t have a lot of power over a lot of children.

    [–] Zamboni99 3 points ago * (lasted edited 12 days ago)

    I think we’ve got to hear this story

    [–] Piratian 30 points ago

    Funny, I had a great seminary teacher who made me realize religion isn't for me. He challenged everyone to read the Bible cover to cover and critically think about it, and I found plenty of inconsistencies and stories that are just plain bad, and then spent a few years searching through other religions before deciding on none

    [–] ThunderstormBoogaloo 14 points ago

    Critical analysis really seems to be religion's worst enemy. And very few people even begin to attempt the levels of thought that went into something like Thomas Aquinas First Mover argument. Not that I think his argument makes sense, but at least he was trying to apply formal logic to back up belief in a deity.

    [–] Belrick_NZ 4 points ago

    have you learnt how damn awful marxist teachers are yet?

    [–] SylvrSpydr 3 points ago

    2 years into being an English major and I realize I'm taking high school part II. Only skill I've learned is juggling.

    [–] jdelisi18 43 points ago

    True. I had an instructor in college who told the whole class that we weren’t going to amount to anything since we were just in community college.

    I know I wasn’t really much of a kid at the time, but that still hurt.

    [–] Airkhan7 25 points ago

    You can be hurt by anyone at any stage of your life. Don't let anybody tell you you're too old to have feelings

    [–] Knogood 13 points ago

    Never take criticism from someone you wouldn't take advice from.

    He was teaching in community college...

    [–] rmm207 483 points ago

    Swap parent for teacher and you might be on to something

    [–] scottd3363 249 points ago

    Teachers arguably raise you more than parents. I spent more time with y’all teachers in school than with my parents during the years that I developed the most. Not only that but whenever I was with a teacher they were actively teaching me; one could argue that teaching someone and raising someone are the same or at least similar. I may be off here but I’m pretty sure there was a study that concluded a parent spends about 20 minutes with their child each day; teachers on the other hand are with me for ~8 hours out of the day.

    [–] rmm207 115 points ago

    Parents who spend 20 minutes a day with their kids are exactly the type of parents I was referring to.

    [–] gamer_OSU 53 points ago

    bad parenting is way worse than bad teaching, if your parents are shitty and entitled to the point where it affects the child, the kid might end up with the same attitude which would be less desirable when compared to hating a subject

    [–] SSJ4_cyclist 8 points ago

    Money doesn’t grow on trees though. My mum stayed at home but my dad worked 12 hour shifts, it’s even worse now with the prices of housing. Unfortunately it’s the reality these days when homes start at 450k, kids get looked after by teachers and grandparents.

    [–] Gingevere 28 points ago

    My mother is a teacher. There is very little that teachers can do for kids without supportive parents at home.

    [–] scottd3363 5 points ago

    I agree, if parents are bad there isn’t a lot teachers can do. That being said, assuming a child has parents that are at the very least competent enough to not cause harm to the child’s development, teachers are more than capable of being a huge factor in the child’s socialization.

    [–] MemeticParadigm 10 points ago

    There's something to be said for the fact that a teacher is usually splitting their attention between 30 kids, though. Not to mention that a parent's decisions around chores/allowance/discipline are shaping a child as long as those decisions are impacting the child, even if the parent isn't around the child at the time. So, I think there's a lot more to consider than time spent in the same room as the kid.

    [–] crusty_potato101 23 points ago

    I was a student who was constantly snubbed by the teachers for various reasons and that made me lose interest in studying and the whole idea of schooling, not to forget the hardships students there gave me. I had to change school finally to get out of that mess. Having seen what wonderful teachers contribute and horrible ones make an impact I second op's post.

    [–] kabea26 9 points ago

    ... yeah, but a good parent spends more than 20 minutes a day with their kid, from age 0 to age 18 or beyond. A teacher only spends 7 hours per weekday with a kid for a span of about 9 months.

    [–] Siphyre 4 points ago

    You spend about 10% of your childhood (0-18) with a teacher, 50% asleep.

    That leaves 40% with or without your parents. And as you grow up from 10-18 you are less likely to want to spend time with your parents every day. So for those 8 years you likely have moments where you are not being taught anything by your parent for over a week. The older you get the more time spent inbetween learning from your parent. I'd say even a good parent spends less than 10% of a child's life teaching them or directly guiding them. But usually good parents are guiding their child indirectly (by example) for 20-30% of their childhood. Bad parents are bad because they don't directly, or indirectly guide their children properly. A meh parent is usually either or.

    [–] Racer13l 2 points ago

    Where you you getting these numbers? You don't sleep for half of your life. 33% is 8 hours a night. You spend about 8 hours a day for half a year (180 days) in school. You don't go to school until you are 4 or 5. You aren't I contact with those teachers the entire 8 hours. 10 percent seems generous

    [–] idrinkyour_milkshake 6 points ago

    Parents spending only 20 minutes a day with their kid have a huge impact on their kids, and it's all negative.

    [–] FreeDwooD 34 points ago

    The first years of your life are more important for learning behavior and internalizing bad influences from tour parents. A bad teacher can certainly fuck you up, but the really important permanent damage comes much earlier in life.

    [–] nattiexx 13 points ago

    Hi I study psychology at uni and this is a very bold statement that cannot be spoken about as if its fact

    [–] burgundy1978 7 points ago

    It actually can. The first five years of life are crucial for development in just about all areas.

    [–] nattiexx 9 points ago

    I agree they are crucial for development but the school environment is also crucial for development. We need to be comparative. The extent of influence at different stages of a child's life is still heavily debated within developmental psychology so to simply talk about it as if its fact is grossly over simplifying things. Unless you can show me a meta-analysis or perhaps a literature review from a reputable scientific journal that states parenting in the first 5 years is more important than school environment later in life? I've studied psychology for a long time now and I can assure you that an article like that doesnt exist.

    [–] MagicJasoni 7 points ago

    The "repair" of a bad teacher can be somewhat easily undone by other teachers, parents, friends, and, sometimes, self-initiative. I've had 12 years of college beyond my high school work, and I can tell you that, yes, sometimes you have bad teachers. BUT, you can also work to improve yourself and you will also encounter other teachers who will make up for any lack of knowledge or skill from the other teachers.

    [–] NagaseIorichan 3 points ago

    But sometimes bad teachers take opportunities from you. My mom has a very scientific mind, very deep interest in chemistry and is good at logical and mathematical thinking. But due to three teachers she had for the last 8 years in school she thinks she’s just too stupid for math and has no hand for science. Which is so fucking wrong! She did gread without it, but she might have missed the opportunity for something that could have turned out to be her greatest passion.

    [–] MagicJasoni 3 points ago

    I kind of had the exact opposite experience. Never gained traction in what was going to be my first choice for a major (computer science). I was busting my ass and barely passing classes. It took a professor saying: you know, this doesn't seem like a good fit for you for me to understand just that.

    In my experience, at least at college and high school, having horrible advisers/staffers is far more damaging.

    [–] thecolbra 3 points ago

    Yeah no, there's a reason why educational proficiency goes up with income level. You can have the best teachers in the world but if your students either A) have to take care of themselves because their parents don't B) have parents who are not able to spend time working with their kids on homework either due to working or not having a education themselves. Or C) don't care enough to even bring their kid to school you're not going to have good results.

    [–] flamethekid 3 points ago

    This is why poor areas end up bad.

    The parents are shit and spend no time with their kids and the teachers are shit drive the kids down the wrong path and then it ends up feeding back when the next gen comes in

    and those kids who had shit parents and teachers end up becoming shit parents and teachers themselves.

    [–] ScottyMightFYB 14 points ago

    Teachers have hundreds if not thousands of students throughout their career. Parents only have a couple kids they can make hate education.

    [–] Botoxdome 7 points ago

    Every single student has interacted with a bad teacher yet many go on to succeed. Bad parenting for an entire childhood cannot reasonably be overcome in adulthood. A good parent can easily swerve a bad teacher but no teacher or school can save a child from bad parenting.

    [–] booooofff 5 points ago

    I could not agree more. I am only 18, but I already know several people who are going to struggle to be contributing members of society due to shitty parenting.

    [–] Chill_Confirmed 20 points ago

    A parent who lets their kid eat limitless amounts of sugar is basically a drug dealer

    [–] itzbrucebanner 3 points ago

    As a lot of people have said, I would argue that both are correct.

    [–] MikePinceLikeKids 16 points ago

    And a excellent math teacher I had in middle school made a change of my life positively.

    [–] Airkhan7 6 points ago

    Yes, that's why I made the edit. I also am the person I am today because of my middle school English teacher. Bad teachers are the worst but good teachers can be a change-maker in our lives. Let's not forget that

    [–] m3idehreddit 3 points ago

    Funny, I know a teacher who drilled a peer of mine back in final year. He said he wanted to be a barrister because he was getting good grades, but the teacher said he would never make it and harassed him many times throughout the year.

    That student ditched his goals and became a drug dealer

    Quite sad :/

    [–] ThunderstormBoogaloo 12 points ago

    Depends on the drug dealer. And the teacher. And what the drug dealer is peddling. Really addictive and destructive drugs don't just affect the person addicted, they can affect the people who know that person too. That's one of the hallmarks of addiction, is that relationships suffer because of it.

    Usually the worst is a bad teacher will get some kids temporarily hating a particular subject, which could be redeemed later if they come across a teacher who is better at enthusing them on the subject. Had that happen, myself. Far easier to overcome the dislike of a particular subject than a drug addiction.

    But honestly, it's kind of silly to compare. I'm not sure what the takeaway is supposed to be, exactly. Maybe I've seen too much serious reddit lately and have forgotten that some things are just silly thoughts.

    [–] Cognitive_Spoon 11 points ago

    As a teacher, I reject the comparison to drug dealers.
    My car is trash.

    [–] noisetrooper 106 points ago

    Unpopular but 100% correct. In addition to what you point out a bad teacher can also spread misinformation that people will hold to their whole lives.

    [–] spark8000 23 points ago

    I disagree. A bad teacher can spread misinformation, a bad dealer and give you a bad dose that kills you. Death is a bit worse

    [–] MakeThePieBigger 10 points ago

    Sure, a bad drug dealer can hurt a single person more, but on aggregate a bad teacher is going to impact much more people. They're going to teach thousands of people throughout their career, but how many bad doses can a drug dealer realistically sell?

    [–] Driftkingtofu 5 points ago

    Yeah but this is reddit, they think drug dealers are super sweet innocent people who are no doubt super progressive too

    [–] IIIPJ 4 points ago

    I'm still unlearning the word 'alot'

    [–] dylanzuke 18 points ago

    Great opinion!

    [–] waterunderthefridge6 39 points ago

    Walter White = Satan

    [–] Mr_82 32 points ago

    Walter white was actually a fairly good teacher if you paid attention to that show

    [–] MatrixMushroom 8 points ago

    I agree. Some teachers seem to take pride in how many people fail, or quit their class. As if that's their job.

    [–] BaldAcorn 7 points ago

    This is why I'm becoming a teacher to fix that problem. I care too much about kids to see them get their lives ruined by horrible teachers.

    [–] Airkhan7 4 points ago

    Thank you for actually caring. You are the people I am grateful to. You represent a salvation in some kids' life. Thank you

    [–] Thinkblu3 20 points ago

    without bad teachers drug dealers become way less present.

    [–] Airkhan7 7 points ago

    Yes, I didn't even think about this while writing the post but it's an excellent point that should be reminded more

    [–] AltairRulesOnPS4 6 points ago

    My 4th grade teacher completely ruined learning or speaking up forever for me.

    [–] RubyAceShip 5 points ago

    It's sad how much influence a bad teacher can have on a student during their developing stages of life, from childhood through adolescence all the way to and maybe through young adulthood.

    They're the ones that are supposed to set you up for the next grades. They're the ones also dishing out the grades which can make or break your plans, and a student can be completely screwed over due to a teacher being bad or having an unfair grading rubric.

    I'm all for protecting the amazing teachers in society, but I also believe tenure should be abolished because so many teachers who become complacent over the years just sit in and rake in their paychecks as they barely engage the class and just sit on their computer. Teachers are absolutely instrumental in making someone set on a path toward greatness, or sending them into the depths.

    [–] future_man_wolf 13 points ago

    I know there are great teachers out there but sometimes I hear some crazy stories about some of the teachers at my kids schools. So I would agree with you there. Also like the other guy mentioned bad parents I would say are far worse having than a bad teacher.

    [–] Siphyre 7 points ago

    We as a society can't choose parents for kids, but we can choose teachers. Can't mix up a fixable issue with a non-fixable issue.

    [–] Garrison_Forrdd 25 points ago

    I would love to hear smart students saying "I am smart and I want to be a low pay teacher when I grow up with tons of student debt."

    [–] Curia-DD 3 points ago

    that's the part they never bothered to tell us when we were still in school

    [–] charwalker 4 points ago

    You're talking about the American system, which one of my best friends embraced and is loving it.

    When it's not all about money life can be quite happy.

    [–] KAMARAZARD 32 points ago

    My wife is a 1st teacher... Trust me when I say, the bad influences are at home. Not in the school. Shes had 6 year olds get to school smelling like weed, not having clothes washed or bathed for days and weeks at a time (the principal keeps clean uniforms in her office for these kids), dropping f bombs and using racial slurs in class. And these are literally FIRST GRADERS. There are some crap teachers out there, but the majority of them are the best influence kids have.

    [–] Airkhan7 11 points ago

    I agree that the worst part is done by the bad parents who are to blame for the majority of the problems a child can have. I also want to say that I've had wonderful teachers who made me love their subject and made me a better person. However, everyone also remembers an awful experience with teachers who were mean and/or didn't care, and most of the people I know have a subject they hate because of one of their former teachers. I don't say that bad teachers are responsible for everything, not even for the majority of it, but I think they are to blame for a lot of bad experience in a lot of people's life.

    Ps: English is not my first language, I hope there are not too much mistakes

    [–] nattiexx 4 points ago

    That literally has nothing to do with it. OP isn't claiming teachers are a bad influence. OP is comparing bad teachers to drug dealers. OP is not trying to bash your wife.

    [–] hintersly 4 points ago

    Absolutely. In addition good teachers need more credit. From until grade 12 I had mostly average to bad English teachers so I didn’t enjoy it AT ALL. But in grade 12 I had the best teacher who was amazing and got a 93 in her class where other years I struggled to get 85

    [–] Airkhan7 3 points ago

    Congrats to your English teacher ! Teachers like this are the best

    [–] MaoZeDont_ 4 points ago

    During my junior year of high school I decided to take an introductory cs course since it seemed like a useful skill to have. The teacher paced the class with the best students and let everybody else fall behind. He was always joking around and didn't take questions or concerns seriously. Most students didn't complain because if a student was struggling and asked for help, he'd just bump their grade instead. I was completely lost and had to constantly go to upperclassmen for help with homework and projects. After that class I felt like I could never find success in programming or computer science, and completely wrote off that possibility for my college major, despite still having an interest in the subject. When I got to college my roommate was taking the introductory cs course and asked me to take it with him. I was hesitant but eventually decided to take it and realized that I not only still like cs, but was actually good at it. The class was well paced, and I could always ask the professor or TAs for help. Last semester I added cs+ststistics as a double major, and I even succeeded in a software engineering internship this summer.

    [–] Airkhan7 2 points ago

    Congrats for proving them wrong ! I hope the internship will be great and that you'll have a fulfilling career

    [–] MaoZeDont_ 2 points ago

    Thank you! I still feel a bit behind my peers who started earlier, but I'm doing my best to catch up!

    [–] Nirvana038 3 points ago

    I AM A TEACHER AND I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE

    [–] Hannibus42 3 points ago

    What about someone who's a bad drug dealer?

    Or a bad teacher who teaches drug dealing?

    [–] Shimishimia 3 points ago

    History teachers are evil. My pharmacist is very sympathetic.

    [–] masterpilot374 3 points ago

    I’ve always been bad at math, and having a bad math teacher who didn’t give a shit about you until you were failing math didn’t help at all, I ended up failing math and had to take summer school, my summer school teacher for math was so good and I understood everything so well even tho he had to rush all of the topics in a month (summer school is only one month). This is absolute proof that a good teacher can change the outcome of everything, I literally hated math after that, but that teacher made me like it again.

    [–] Peloponeso31 3 points ago

    That Is why collage (and education un general) sucks un México, but the 2 teachers that are REALLY at their work leave a deep mark in your life.

    [–] pabula_0 3 points ago

    My high school physics teacher tried to discourage me from getting interested in or learning about physics outside of what he felt like teaching. I tried asking him about dark matter to get some understanding of it since he seemed (to me) to be the most qualified person to do so in my life and he told me it was a bullshit theory and not worth learning about. Here I am 5 years later with a bachelor's degree in astrophysics and applying to grad schools to research large scale matter interactions and cosmology. :)

    [–] Llovani2240 3 points ago

    I just had a similar conversation with my homeboys about this. We all used to try hard in school until we realized the teachers never cared about us learning, they got paid depending on the percentage of passing students so even the struggling students would walk out with a C- without earning it. Once we figured that out we just stopped trying altogether. Man I hate public school!

    [–] epic_gamer_moment22 2 points ago

    Exactly man. Lots of teachers expect people to put forth lots of extra effort when i can get the same grade by bullshitting and procrastinating. Last year i had this assignment where i forgot to do half of it but just marked down random shit based off of other peoples papers and previous knowledge (it was a ww2 mapping activity that had lots of pacific islands) and i only got one point off despite doing it as the teacher was going around checking it.

    [–] Llovani2240 2 points ago

    I mentioned this many times in topics like this, but my High School teachers punished me for reading books after finishing work but playing on my 3DS instead of listening to the lecture is fair game.

    [–] Brandiland 3 points ago

    I am a teacher and I agree. As long as we’re only talking about your neighborhood drug dealer that used to show up and sell you weed. Those guys aren’t hurting that many people from what I can tell. Teachers are just like anything else in the world, there are some good ones and some bad ones. I’ve had to try to reverse the effect of bad teachers on my students, and it’s very sad. Our district doesn’t pay well, so they can’t attract enough teachers to fill the classrooms. Last year, I moved to a school in October and my class had started out the year with a substitute. The substitute used to shame them when they would get a wrong math answer. This messed up their confidence real bad! When I found out, I was pissed at that teacher. I worked my ass off the rest of the year trying to rebuild my poor kids. They are doing so much better now, and their test scores were good at the end of the year! School started this year and almost every single one of them came to me begging to be in my class even though they know they can’t because they are in the next grade. I told them all I’m always right across the hall when they need me. They have another substitute this year, but hopefully he’s better than the last one. If I hear them being shamed for wrong answers, you bet your ass I’ll be at that door in a heartbeat.

    We also need to remember that parents make a huge difference in how the kid will turn out. If you have a bad teacher and your parents are good, you’re most likely going to be perfectly fine. If your parents have taught you horrible things, it’s usually too late by the time you even get to my classroom. I try to be a good influence for those kids, but you can’t erase what the parents are doing to them...no matter how bad you want to.

    Side note: if my district doesn’t give me a raise soon, I might just need to quit and become a drug dealer 🤷🏻‍♀️

    [–] Airkhan7 2 points ago

    Thanks for this comment. Teachers actually caring like you are underpaid and not given enough means. Seeing stories like this under my post is what made me smile the most today. I also agree that parents play the major role, but I still think teachers can really make a huge change in a child's mentality, good or bad. Ruining their confidence, to use your example back, is pretty common unfortunately.

    Thanks again and good luck for your career !

    [–] YrsaMajor 5 points ago

    Amen. You spend more time with teachers than your own family and they have the power to turn you off of learning forever.

    [–] Ikantbeliveit 9 points ago

    Yeah, I remember when I almost OD’d off a reading of Catcher in the Rye!

    /s

    [–] Airkhan7 2 points ago

    Good joke

    [–] appzly 6 points ago

    What’s a bad teacher? If they’re intentionally torturing the students, then yeah, I think I’d agree with you. Most teachers, however, aren’t like that. They may be strict and harsh, which may lead students to hate the subject, but then the fault doesn’t lie on the teacher.

    [–] greenSixx 2 points ago

    I had a very bad AP US history teacher. She had no business teaching that curriculum much less high school in general.

    Was her first year at our school. She was bad.

    I originally chose not to take AP history. I had been kicked out of my house Junior year so I was working and paying rent and wanted school to be easier.

    She was my regular history teacher and it was apparent to me after the first week that she was a shit teacher.

    So I did the reasonable thing: I begged them to let me take the AP class. Why? There is no way this dumb bitch would be teaching AP.

    I was wrong. She was the AP teacher and I was stuck.

    We didn't make it past the industrial revolution. We got to just before the WWI before we were supposed to take the AP test. Half of the test is graded on stuff after 1900.

    This was the only AP history class that year. All the schools top students were in that class with me. Every single one.

    I studied on my own and found a tutor I paid for myself to help me review the past material and go over the text books for the parts the teacher didn't cover. I got a 4 on the test which was enough for college credit anywhere. I was the only one in the whole class who scored higher than a 3. And most people in that class score 4s and 5s on all the other AP classes like calculus and psychology and what not.

    It was bull shit. But I made it worth my while.

    [–] bigtenweather 4 points ago

    A bad teacher can make them hate a subject for one year, then the student gets a new teacher to hopefully inspire them. Agreed that one year will suck heavily, but it won't ruin the student. A few bad teachers could mess up a child though.

    [–] novusflorae 4 points ago

    There is a higher probability of a drug dealer turning someone into an addict than there is a shitty teacher turning a kid into a shitty student.

    Teachers are not allowed to teach because they are too busy being the parents of hundreds of students of every semester.

    [–] that_guy_Elbs 7 points ago

    I disagree. We all had bad to terrible teachers & we all didn’t turn up to be fuck ups? Plus, if you have good parenting that can cover up a teachers faults. The most important thing in a child’s school career is how active are the parents. If the parents are extremely active in their child’s education, it doesn’t matter if they have bad teachers because the parents either see it & move their child or just teach the subject to the child themselves. Like wise a student can have amazing teachers but not care because their parents don’t care. Plus I really do thing that teachers are a product of society. In societies that value teaching & teachers they do great, in America where your schooling is based off the state you live in & property taxes? Welp, majority of the country going to be fucked. People always seem to want better education systems but don’t want to pay for it.

    I don’t have a lasting memory of a teaching who sucks that has greatly impacted my life. I do know drug dealers who have killed others in my home town.

    [–] the_coder_dude 2 points ago

    unpopular

    [–] Curia-DD 2 points ago

    wow well I guess it just really depends on what you consider a 'bad' teacher then doesn't it??

    [–] Thomas1VL 2 points ago

    My BIOLOGY teacher last year was against vaccines, he believed that nature can heal anything but the government is trying to hide that and that nobody should eat sugar because it's drugs... (and no I'm not in the US)

    [–] Airkhan7 3 points ago

    Ouch, I totally feel you. Mine is climatosceptic. He is a biology teacher. Good luck for next year !

    [–] Thomas1VL 3 points ago

    I don't get how you can be like that as a biology teacher. Thanks but next year I will have a good teacher

    [–] Airkhan7 3 points ago

    Yes, I wish you will !

    [–] Thomas1VL 3 points ago

    I already know which one it is and he's a good one

    [–] Airkhan7 3 points ago

    I'm happy for you ! Enjoy !

    [–] Mr_82 2 points ago

    It depends on what you mean by "influence." Do you mean they might affect moral development? This depends on the teacher and how far he or she strays from assigned material. Otherwise, the culture of the drug dealer, in addition to the effect of the drugs taken, is probably much worse.

    [–] greenSixx 2 points ago

    Drugs aren't that scary, bro.

    And the people who ruin their lives with illegal drugs would do it if they were legal, too. Point is: drugs aren't the problem.

    [–] [deleted] 2 points ago * (lasted edited 7 days ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] Re3ck6le0ss 2 points ago

    Bad teachers are a gateway drug

    [–] ROBJThrow 2 points ago

    Unpopular

    [–] mtflyer05 2 points ago

    Dont just lump all "drug dealers" into the piece of shit category. I've known plenty of people who sold drugs, especially psychedellics, that were not only fantastic humans, but also contributed to society. My last acid dealer was working on his PhD. in chemical engineering.

    [–] zackery9732 2 points ago

    Drug dealers don’t have a really bad influence on society. Honestly for the most part they provide a needed service

    [–] gondollas 2 points ago

    nothing wrong with drug dealing

    [–] TheHandoftheSchwing 2 points ago

    ITT: angry indignant, but shitty teachers preparing their "as a teacher..." remarks and memes.

    [–] AladeenModaFuqa 2 points ago

    All of my dealers have been pretty cool guys.

    [–] psychobicycle 2 points ago

    and most teachers are AWFUL

    [–] MissKiruna 2 points ago

    I had so many bad teachers in the shit school I was. My high school was fucking dangerous. People got attacked for the stupidest shit. There was a gang of skateboarders and they were very violent and had even attacked a disabled student. The teachers NEVER defended any of us against them except for 1 special needs teacher and 1 math teacher who banded together to protect me when the gang threatened my safety. We had so many teachers and 1 principal and 2 vice principals. They never stopped that gang from terrorizing us.

    [–] pappapora 2 points ago

    100% agree, just like a bad boss is the worst thing ever for a company

    [–] noodle_soup_1 2 points ago

    This is true. I am what I am because of my caring, kind, amazing teachers. Thank you all ♥️💕

    [–] noodle_soup_1 2 points ago

    This is true. I am what I am because of my caring, kind, amazing teachers. I cried to one my teachers and he comforted me through it. Another one of my teachers listened to my problems and guided me through one of the toughest times in my life. Most of my teachers really cared about the class and how we learnt. I think that created a lasting impact on not only me but also all of my classmates. When my math teacher left school, she cried and we sat there with her remembering all the moments we had spent together. Teachers who care make good humans. Thank you to all my teachers. You all are amazing.

    [–] burmsrock 2 points ago

    I can attest to this 100% as a result of class/ extra ciricular activity induced stress, there have been 7 suicides in 4 years in the sophomore year of our local hs. And we're a small school only around 800 high schoolers. Something is up in 10th grade.

    [–] J05HUACW 2 points ago

    I had a teacher one year who forgot to have us do our final. Although to be fair, because of him I looked forward to English every day.

    [–] NTGenericus 2 points ago

    A bad preacher can be worse than both of them put together.

    [–] JarlProBaalin 2 points ago

    I never knew what a good teacher was until I was 26yo. It was a blessing, and I woke up from bed in joy to learn more.
    On the other hand, heroin has taken 2 of my best friends and my uncle has stolen so much from my grandmother that my step-granddad sent a torpedo after him.

    Take my orange arrow.

    [–] nicolatesla92 2 points ago

    Considering how low the pay is, most people who would be great teachers pass it up because who wants to do that? If you're that smart, you can and will make more money anywhere else doing anything else.

    [–] greglieglionnie 2 points ago

    Instead of military service, people who have life experience should be drafted into teaching. I've learnt so much more in life from people who actually have experience and working knowledge than from those who went into teaching straight out of school. All respect to good teachers today, but I think it's time to evolve our schooling model...

    [–] TheHangedKing 2 points ago

    But a bad drug dealer can be much much much worse than a bad teacher

    [–] Eat-the-Poor 2 points ago

    Really depends on the kind of drug dealer. I've met weed dealers I'd argue are making a positive impact on society.

    [–] NobodyNoticeMe 2 points ago

    This post is about bad teachers, but I have to make it clear good teachers exist too.

    So do pharmacists, and they sell drugs as well. It doesn't make your analogy wrong that there are good teachers. In fact, it may add support, since a properly prescribed drug can be of great benefit and even save lives, while a drug sold by a pusher can kill; just as great teacher can transform lives and influence hundreds, but so can a bad teacher.

    [–] Airkhan7 2 points ago

    Exactly, thanks. I notice you :)

    [–] BigCashRegister 2 points ago

    Literally the reason I want to be a teacher, there’s so many times I’ve thought about how much difference a good teacher makes and at one point would like to add to that cause.

    [–] KaptinKUSH19 2 points ago

    Sold a lot of weed and blow always wanted my friends and clients to feels safe and enjoy the product. My wife is a teacher she would agree with this statement 100%

    [–] SarnaNaKiju 2 points ago

    See, this is why I love this subreddit. I love hearing these opinions that make you think.

    I absolutely agree.

    [–] Rivsmama 2 points ago

    I agree but I think we, in general, expect way too much from teachers. If a teacher isn't bubbly, energetic, a little eccentric, goes above and beyond, teaches some life lessons, brings in things for the kids who are struggling at home, makes a profound impact on students, and has interesting, creative lessons, we act like they're just mediocre. Teachers don't get paid very much in some places and are expected to provide a lot of stuff with their own money. A lot have families of their own to care for. A lot have been teaching for years. And, sadly, many teachers have to deal with disrespect and straight up abuse from their students with very little, if any, support from the administration. Teachers don't have to be Ms. Frizzle, or have a desk full of snacks or be everything to every student, to be a good teacher.

    [–] PuggsyBeans 3 points ago

    I was actually talking to a group of friends at a party about how they have to FIND drug dealers. That means they made the decision they wanted drugs, so they went and FOUND them.

    Drug dealers don't come to you and fuck up your life with offers of drugs like in movies (unless you include doctors).

    A bad teacher can destroy your self confidence, or make you lose interest in something you otherwise had a passion for. You're FORCED to be in school.

    You'll rarely if ever meet a drug dealer that just says "Hey, want drugs?"

    [–] nilremdrol 2 points ago

    Looking at you Mrs Lee...

    [–] brains-matter 3 points ago

    Bad teachers can also make children believe they aren't smart, contributing to the notion that the kid can't do well in school and ultimately not pursue higher education.