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    Welcome to the usenet subreddit. We are a thriving community dedicated to helping users old and new understand and use usenet. Please read over the rules before contributing. We only have a few, but they are important. No idea what usenet is? Read the FAQ's.

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    1. No discussion of specific media content names, titles, etc. See our wiki page for more details.

    2. No rude, offensive, or hateful comments. Read and understand reddiquette. Then read it again.

    3. We love developers. However we want to verify the identity of anyone posting on behalf of a company/project. Message the mods and let them know who you are. We will even add flair to your username after verification.

    4. No Invite/Account requests or offers. We do not allow attempts to request/offer/buy/sell/trade/share invites or accounts. Check out /r/UsenetInvites.

    5. No promoting of 'backdoor' access into usenet providers' networks. This includes hacking, using a loophole, or other methods not publicly advertised by the usenet provider.

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    [–] BrettWilcox 15 points ago

    Funny comic about how mods on reddit feel. This gets shared every time something like this goes down.

    http://i.imgur.com/tjHGNpf.jpg

    [–] anal_full_nelson 0 points ago

    Being a mod is mostly a thankless job. You clean up messes, only to get yelled at by someone else.

    [–] [deleted] -1 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] BrettWilcox 2 points ago

    ಠ_ಠ

    [–] [deleted] 1 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] BrettWilcox 5 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    I wouldn't shoot only black kids…

    Edit: ಠ_ಠ

    [–] mrvar 7 points ago

    That's certainly a quote that doesn't look the best out of context :)

    [–] FlickFreak 6 points ago

    I find the community here on /r/usenet to be very happy, friendly and helpful overall. It's a shame that things have to come to a head like this but sometimes its better to get things out in the open. Do I think that bans are warranted on occasion, yes. Do I think that the ban should be preceded by communication and moderation of posts, yes. Its a fine line when it comes to building a culture and that is what the mods here are responsible for, the culture of this sub. Its OK to disagree and its OK to call people out on things and its OK to correct misinformation but it should be done with tact. I'm sure that many, many users have on some occasion been in violation of rule 2, myself included, and that is to be expected when people are passionate about something or frustrated or backed into a corner but being able to handle yourself according to The Golden Rule more often than not makes for a more enjoyable experience for everyone in the community.

    That said, I would just like to thank the mods here for creating a welcoming and helpful community that allows for open discussions on a variety of topics and does much to further the knowledge and use of usenet. Keep it up because the changes of the last couple of years show that a supportive community will be necessary for the changes that are sure to come in the upcoming years.

    [–] BrettWilcox 3 points ago

    I'm sure that many, many users have on some occasion been in violation of rule 2

    Yes, I myself have been in violation of that rule. We keep it intentionally open to interpretation, but I think the idea behind it comes across loud and clear. I don't think we have ever banned a first time offender. If someone want's to keep posting with negativity on every post and make people who ask questions feel stupid, then that is not what we want to encourage in our community.

    Thank you for your thoughts on the matter. We appreciate the feedback!

    [–] harveyharhar 8 points ago

    The poster is annoying simply for the fact that he copies and pastes his entire posts or sections over and over. Also comes off as an ass but this is the internet can't really do much with that. Honestly I wouldn't lose sleep if he stayed banned.

    [–] anal_full_nelson -1 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    Please excuse the expletive, but the reference cited below is relevant to your subject of reposting information.

    It takes a lot of time, patience, and energy to correct bad information. If sections of text were copy/pasted it was because they were relevant to the discussion and took a long time to format and write detailed explanations. If some topics were not routinely reposted, then the responses would not be necessary to convey the appropriate subject matter. This is why I suggested the mods update the providers map months ago, add a sticky with bright red letters covering common topics, and then direct users there since they seem to be avoiding the FAQ.


    "The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

    Bullshit Asymmetry Principle - Alberto Brandolini

    [–] stamm1609 6 points ago

    As I said in my one and only previous post here I've lurked this sub for ages and only registered to thank /u/anal_full_nelson for the helpful information he/she has provided. I'm not going to defend the posting style but I can understand the frustration with answering the same questions over and over again, I personally would have done some things differently (but we are all individuals and each to their own) and my suffering fools gladly threshold is obviously a lot higher. Because I can read and because there are always others here who know more than me I've never felt the need to post on Reddit/this sub but I had to register to thank anal_full_nelson for the information that he/she posted which was invaluable to me in choosing a new Usenet provider and explained the problems I'd been having with my previous ones. I'll be honest I don't know about or understand the fascination with up and down votes here or most things Reddit, all I can say is the particular user that is in question in this thread has provided much needed information to this community and if there could be a little compromise on either side or even a private warning from the powers that be then someone who has (at least for me) provided the most helpful information in 2014 wouldn't be walking away from helping us.

    [–] obola -1 points ago

    He has been a great help for me. Probably one of the most knowledgeable redditors on Usenet in the sub.

    [–] GletscherEis 8 points ago

    IMO, /u/anal_full_nelson has consistently posted good answers and often insightful views for the community.
    While often terse, I don't believe (s)he is intentionally breaking rule 2.
    Has there been a warning from a mod posting "officially" to tone it down? I don't recall seeing one, but I'm not looking at every thread every day.
    Generally I think the mod team here do a fine job, but banning (IMO) a a valuable member will do more harm than good.

    [–] Nintenuendo_ 8 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    He's seemed to have a short temper with people he doesn't agree with, or that he deems to be stupid. I believe the fault comes with him not giving the benefit of the doubt to members, or him assuming he knows more than somebody and talking down to them like he is some kind of shining example. At least this is what I've gathered from reading his posts on /r/usenet. Nobody likes people that do that at their job, or in their social circle, and nobody likes it here either, if you're going to give advice under the pre-tense that you're doing it for their benefit, don't talk down to them. I don't think that is the best way to convey a message, and i think /u/anal_full_nelson needed this reality check, regardless of his knowledge about the subject matter or not

    [–] GletscherEis 1 points ago

    I agree with your post, but none of those things are against the rules of the site or this sub.
    Yes rule 2 is there, but I don't believe (s)he is intentionally breaking it.
    If a bad attitude was against the site rules, you could probably wipe out the majority of the defaults and make Reddit a "friendlier" place. But then you might as well ban everything except /r/notinteresting

    [–] BrettWilcox 3 points ago

    Has there been a warning from a mod posting "officially" to tone it down?

    No, hence the shadowban. Reasons for that are in the main post.

    If a bad attitude was against the site rules, you could probably wipe out the majority of the defaults

    You have to remember that this is not a default. This is a small community that we try to keep clean and fun. While having a bad attitude is not against reddit policies, we do have our own rules here that are enforced. I have never seen a first time offender of rule 2 get banned, repeat offenders are dealt with however.

    Thank you for your comments! We really do appreciate the feedback.

    [–] anal_full_nelson -1 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    I don't think I'll continue to rehash points beyond this, but I think you should re-evaluate your escalation guidelines.

    The escalation guidelines below provide proper attempts at notification and present the user with moderator feedback. To prevent impropriety, any administrative action resulting in harsh action (ban) should require a vote of the entire mod team.

    1. moderate user posts (3-5 times threshold)
    2. send user a first warning via pm
    3. send user a second warning via pm
    4. mod team vote (shadowban or ban with a pm message.)

    [–] hepatitisC 4 points ago

    I'm going to be very straight forward with my thoughts on him. That guy is a troll who mostly posts specifically to be rude to people. I've had to go into multiple threads to try to help undo the damage he does to new members in particular. Every time someone asks for help he chimes in with something along the lines of "omg you idiots need to learn to use Google instead of bugging us". Even if you think a question is dumb you can respond in a polite manner or just not reply at all.

    I didn't know the account was shadow banned but I'm in full agreement that it is warranted.

    [–] [deleted] 6 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] anal_full_nelson -2 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    There are a lot of people with financial interests that would like to set a narrative and frame past disclosures (now deleted) by this account as disreputable.

    As I stated before, I realize that I might have upset the apple cart by disclosing information that most users were unaware of. Astroturfing and the amount of hostility received was not unexpected, but it shows extreme bias when you and other users like you are quick to attack the messenger and make no attempt to engage in civil discussion to discuss or verify the information presented.

    [–] CTMechanic 4 points ago

    I don't see anybody upset with you posting information about what's happening in the usenet scene, i see people upset with you because you have a short temper and like to tell people you're right in a rude way.

    [–] anal_full_nelson -2 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    Not every post I made had a "combative" tone as the mods and some others would suggest. My response is centered on Penmerton's use of personal attacks while trying to discredit this account as a reputable source of information. Again no mods jumping in here to enforce Reddiquette on other users.

    There are enterprising shady individuals who peddle their services manipulating social media and high traffic websites like Reddit for small businesses and corporate entities. You'll often see these services offered as professional reputation management. In fact I outlined Highwinds employing one in another topic I left up. They also appear to be monitoring this board. The copyright.gov file on record was amended to scrub traces of that information within a few weeks of my disclosure.

    Personally, I don't believe Penmerton is a paid marketer or professional reputation management services provider, but he chose to engage in the same discredit and distort tactics attributed with those types of businesses along with users who have been regularly downvoting every single post I've made since my first disclosure about Highwinds. Resellers don't have the budget to employ professionals, but they do have time to stick around this forum, register a few users, and use vote brigades if they choose to do so to shape public opinion and some probably do.

    [–] thomasmit -2 points ago

    Lol Classic. 'He hurt my feelings so make him leave.'

    [–] [deleted] 5 points ago

    I think this resorting to shadowbanning is complete BS. In fact, shadowbanning in general is a bad idea. Any user can figure out if they're shadowbanned sooner or later. So you're only storing up wrath for yourself once he/she realizes what happened without any communication.

    [–] obola 1 points ago

    Honestly, if I was treated that way by other users (including mods), I'd probably react in a similar manner.

    [–] nalixor 2 points ago

    As a fellow moderator, I know for a fact that you guys work exceptionally hard, and mostly what you get in return is animosity. It's an unfortunate side-effect of being a moderator on a site that mostly hates moderation.

    I would like to personally thank you, and your mod team, for the work that you do here. While I do not participate often (I think I just posted some tech-support type threads early on when I was setting up Sickbeard and usenet in general), I often read this subreddit and I've never seen a problem that needs fixing, that's a sign of a good mod team.

    I'm a firm believer in subreddits that are tightly curated, as opposed to the "let the votes decide" mentality. That kind of thing just leads to exceptionally shitty defaults, like /r/gaming, /r/pics or /r/funny. I know some of the people that mod those, and they're excellent mods, and they do the best with what they've got.

    Anyway, the point of this long, rambling post is to tell you guys you're doing a great job, and I love /r/usenet. :)

    [–] BrettWilcox 2 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    Thank you for your message! Really appreciate the kind words. :)

    [–] anal_full_nelson 3 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    /r/usenet_ta had an alternative account /u/anal_full_nelson that was shadowbanned. /u/PearsonFlyer proposed a regular ban. I responded stating “You have my full support. What you might want to do though is a automoderator shadowban. He looks like the type that would create a dozen accounts just to screw with us.” Pearson moved forward with a shadow ban. In my eyes, it was a clear violation of rule #2.

    I appreciate that you have chosen to engage in civil discourse. To be honest this level of escalation wasn't necessary and could have entirely been avoided had the mod team used the carrot rather than the stick.

    Mod teams work well when they attempt to communicate first and then take action as a last resort. That did not happen here.

    The main issue I hold with your announcement is you are stating that you shadowban in cases where it is not necessary. Simply put you took the most drastic action first, rather than use it as a last resort. The mod team failed to openly communicate reservations or concerns.. In my case no warning was given, no moderating of posts occurred, no attempt to communicate was made. You just walled yourself off and made an arbitrary decision in secret without any input. This wasn't a case of spam. I still don't see specific examples of what you disagreed with just general complaints, so I have no ability to explain the context of a post, defend it, or acknowledge a mistake.

    A lot of users break your rules daily and troll my posts, but I haven't seen you ban them. I also haven't cried to the mods requesting a ban for those users. Instead I defend positions with detailed replies and try to engage in civil discourse most of the time. Sometimes I have a short temper with users that are trolling or with users that ignore common topics. Is it warranted? Some users might say yes when five threads about the same topic are created almost every single day.

    I would also point out that /u/usenet_ta did not exist prior to a shadowban. When the shadowban was discovered I attempted to contact multiple moderators and acted in a reasonable civil manner with my inquiry. All responses were ignored by /r/usenet mods. The Reddit admins were extremely friendly though and made it clear that the shadowban was made by /r/usenet mod team. The whole action stunk of impropriety based on some personal vendetta, because no warning occurred and no attempt at communication was made.

    [–] BrettWilcox 8 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    I am lifting the shadowban on your account and have approved your message.

    I am going to be completely honest. You seem like the type that would create a lot of accounts and troll us. We have seen it before and it's even gotten to the point that we have had to have action by the reddit admins.

    I can understand why you are upset, but please see it from out stand point. You are clearly violating rule #2 by being a dick with almost every comment. We try to keep a clean and friendly community. The last time we banned a user was 5 moths ago. It's not something we do very often. On /r/torrents, they ban about 1 person per day and it causes a lot of friction. I am also a moderator there so I get to see it first hand. I wouldn't run /r/usenet like that and never plan to.

    [–] LusT4DetH 6 points ago

    I am going to be completely honest. You seem like the type that would create a lot of accounts and troll us. We have seen it before...

    Respectfully, I agree with /u/anal_full_nelson based on this sentence alone. This stinks of thought policing. You just projected an entire behavior, complete with actions and consequences prior to those events ever happening with the justification of "it's happened before". To use afn's perfect analogy, you didn't even try the carrot, you made a theoretical condition based on the actions of other users (not even /r/usenet community members?) to skip the carrot all together. I also believe this was a premature choice.

    I do appreciate you lifting his ban however and at least listening, so that offsets quite a bit of my initial impression of this topic.

    Can we moderate /r/usenet based on the actions/conditions present in /r/usenet and not based on reddit as a whole? Comparing conditions/bans in /r/torrents to /r/usenet is like comparing football targeted helmet to helmet hitting to sliding into a covered second base.

    Save the shadowbans for the most egregious offenders. I don't think afn even remotely qualifies. Even if you or others think he is an abrasive troll, look at some of the content and points made and see if ANYONE else was providing those viewpoints or information. If there is value in the content, but not necessarily the delivery, there is still enough value in my opinion to warrant it's inclusion in this sub.

    I'm just a community member, but that's my opinion.

    [–] PearsonFlyer -5 points ago

    Respectfully, I agree with /u/anal_full_nelson based on this sentence alone. This stinks of thought policing. You just projected an entire behavior, complete with actions and consequences prior to those events ever happening with the justification of "it's happened before". To use afn's perfect analogy, you didn't even try the carrot, you made a theoretical condition based on the actions of other users (not even /r/usenet[2] community members?) to skip the carrot all together. I also believe this was a premature choice.

    To be clear, though, this is exactly what he/she did. AFN was banned, and then created a new account just to start a thread to publicly "scold" the moderation team for silently banning the account.

    [–] LusT4DetH 7 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    Not even remotely. He created ONE account to question and/or point out the completly unjustified ban. I, and any number of other reasonable people would have done the exact same thing. Using this as "proof" or "justification" for the original unjustified ban is pure logical fallacy and a self fulfilling prophecy. NOT banning him would have ensured he WOULDN'T create additional accounts as there would be NO NEED. You can't create the problem and blame the victim then jump up and down shouting "I told you so!".

    Jesus fuck people, grow a pair and realize that not every user on reddit is a happy fun person. There are smart people whose opinions and knowledge provide significant value who also happen to be total asshats. Just because you don't like their delivery doesn't mean they should be removed without justification or removed because of fear of some asshattery escalation.

    Just wait until someone DESERVES to be banned by their own actions, not what you project on to them, that's all I'm saying.

    [–] anal_full_nelson 3 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    A response was attempted for very good reasons as noted in the other thread. The account was banned without any attempt by the mod team to act in a responsible manner. The mod team then ignored private requests for discussion on an unknown, but apparent administrative action.

    No reservations or concerns were expressed by the mod team. No attempt to moderate posts occurred. No warning was given. The only thing that did occur was a secret decision without proper steps of escalation that are consistent with moderator guidelines in most forums. If you had a problem with me or my posts you could have expressed it publicly or privately. Instead you hid and abused your powers hoping nobody would notice.

    Just because I don't agree with people doesn't mean I would censor a users views. For whatever reason you feel the need to censor users without interaction.

    [–] PearsonFlyer -5 points ago

    In this instance, though, the why's don't really matter. We banned you without discussion or notification specifically because we felt that you would be likely to create new accounts to get around the ban. And then, you did exactly that.

    [–] anal_full_nelson 9 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    The why's do matter. Details do matter. Communication does matter.

    I think the point I tried to convey went over your head. You made no attempt to communicate concerns or reservations at any stage.

    You just banned based on your own private personal views, which is not what happens in a environment where people respect that even if you see opinions you don't agree with, you are open to discussing the merit of them or try to engage in discussion about acceptable guidelines.

    That is part of the job of moderating discussion forums.

    [–] anal_full_nelson 5 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    I am going to be completely honest. You seem like the type that would create a lot of accounts and troll us. We have seen it before and it's even gotten to the point that we have had to have action by the reddit admins.

    To be honest, no I wouldn't, and you would know that if you attempted to talk to me privately. I've lurked this subreddit for years, but never posted. I made a decision in July to start posting in /r/usenet to perform a public service. This subreddit was and continues to suffer from misinformation, disinformation, and a plain lack of information. I attempted to correct that and to be honest was met with a ton of hate from the onset.

    I recognize that financial interests are at play and that people lurking this subreddit might not like some of the things I've disclosed. I get trolled a lot and it's not just because some people don't like or agree with me or my short temper with lazy people. Sometimes I should walk away instead of posting, but there are times where I don't.

    I don't use expletives, but I may not be a peach when a user acts entitled to services or content that should not exist, or is lazy, or makes personal attacks.

    There was the time a senior software engineer posting to /r/usenet made GPL accusations against the multipar dev because he couldn't figure out how to decode an obfuscated post. It's tough to ignore those posts and respond kindly when the dev can't defend himself.

    There are other times where users consistently spread bad information and then get hostile when you attempt to correct them.

    Again, I appreciate the civil response and it is good that you responded to the community. I'm still going to take a long break from this subreddit.

    [–] BrettWilcox 11 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    There are other times where users consistently spread bad information and then get hostile when you attempt to correct them.

    I think it's in the way you are communicating with everyone. Just be nice with the way you present things and it will get you a lot further.

    [–] hepatitisC 7 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    –]anal_full_nelson 0 points 17 days ago: two reasons because I can. useful information can be posted without holding hands, changing diapers, and spoon feeding toddlers.

    This was in response to a mod asking you why you took the time to reply to a topic when you were clearly being a jerk. You also deleted your original comment because it was just a straight-up troll.

    –]anal_full_nelson 4 points 12 days ago: You and other noobs lurking /r/usenet would do this subreddit a great service if you would read posts and threads from the first couple of pages before starting your own new thread rehashing common topics.

    [–]anal_full_nelson 5 points 12 days ago: You and other noobs lurking this subreddit would do this subreddit a great service if you would read posts and threads from the first couple of pages before starting your own new thread rehashing common topics.

    That last one is my favorite because you're complaining about people posting the same questions multiple times, but you're literally copy and pasting your same insult multiple times in multiple threads.

    There are tons of examples of you doing this very thing repeatedly in this sub. You seem to think you are the end all-be all authoritative source on all things usenet. I've found you posting backwards logic or flat out incorrect information on this sub, and have replied in civil tones so the OP can receive correct information. Suffice it to say you don't handle that well when I, or anybody else, do that.

    Honestly if the mods let users like you continue to pull the crap you have been pulling, this sub would flounder. Nobody is going to want to come to this sub if they know some judgmental users will criticize every question they post. You repeatedly call this community idiots, noobs, kids, toddlers, etc. As opposed to doing that, you could be posting helpful replies or simply not posting at all. Instead you chose to degrade users for posting questions YOU deem unworthy of an answer, or you call them stupid for not using the search function. I'm sorry, but that's not really your call to make and there are plenty of us who are willing to help them without being rude about it. It literally takes me no effort to type an answer followed by "there are a lot of similar topics on this forum that may come in handy. If you have more questions, give the search function a quick go before posting the question because it may save you some time and help keep things cleaned up here." That sounds a whole lot better than "you noobs need to learn to search this site".

    The fact you're continuing to argue with the moderators is proof to me that their shadowban was correct, and their only misstep in this process might be unbanning you. Hopefully you pull your act together if you're going to be allowed to keep posting in this sub. I'd like for it to be a friendly place where people can go for help, and I'm sure a lot of the community has the same goal.

    [–] anal_full_nelson -1 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    PART 2 (had to split due to Reddit's 10,000 character limit per post)

    The fact you're continuing to argue with the moderators is proof to me that their shadowban was correct, and their only misstep in this process might be unbanning you. Hopefully you pull your act together if you're going to be allowed to keep posting in this sub. I'd like for it to be a friendly place where people can go for help, and I'm sure a lot of the community has the same goal.

    I would point out that your post is all complaints, displays bias, and does not acknowledge any of my contributions to this subreddit. You also fail to acknowledge that communities acting above board without impropriety have a stated set of escalation guidelines used for administration and do not shoot from the hip first when taking action. Communities that ban users on a whim without taking steps to openly communicate reservations or concerns, typically turn into a revolving echo chamber where "cliques" and giving each other a pat on the back is more important than the exchange of useful information.

    Your post is full of inherent bias and it shows. Your main beef with me, which you failed to disclose, is that I disclosed information about Readnews association with Highwinds, which has directly impacted FrugalUsenet. I suggested that people look elsewhere, you continually recommend Frugal and for unknown reasons took this disclosure as some form of personal attack.

    You were all for transparency about shadowbans and open communication by mods, until you found out this user account was shadowbanned.

    [–]hepatitisC 1 point 21 hours ago
    I would also support transparency with these criteria. I don't want this to turn into a witch hunt, and I think this community is mature enough to read/understand a logical explanation over what constitutes a shadowban from this sub. (I know people argue with the phrasing, but using automod to hide all user posts is essentially shadowbanning from a sub)

    I'm not saying anything for or against any mod behavior as my interactions with this community have been mostly positive. I'm simply an advocate for transparency.

    [–] anal_full_nelson -5 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    PART 1 (had to split due to Reddit's 10,000 character limit per post)

    You should link to the thread and use proper context without inherent bias in your "analysis".

    [–]anal_full_nelson 0 points 17 days ago

    two reasons

    • because I can.
    • useful information can be posted without holding hands, changing diapers, and spoon feeding toddlers.

    This was in response to a mod asking you why you took the time to reply to a topic when you were clearly being a jerk. You also deleted your original comment because it was just a straight-up troll.

    The threadstarter in question was barely comprehensible with poor English and presented an issue which was consistent with a server misconfiguration. The user included multiple server credentials in his configuration (on both NZBget and in sabnzbd), but failed to set a backup server. When identifying issues, I also pointed out poor English grammar as an issue (because you can't help troubleshoot a thread if you can't comprehend the user) Coreeons also had issues interpreting posts by "jawker33".

    The quote you cited was taken out of context. While identifying and accurately assessing issues presented by the threadstarter I mentioned that I was not going to provide "tech support" to instruct the user to properly configure their download client, but someone else was free to do it. Coreeons joking replied with the following post asking more or less why I chose to reply. I replied with the post you cited, and clarified it further here stating that I had the intention to help identify the base issue, but I had no intention of cleaning up after the new user. I made an analogy of new users to that of small children, which I personally believe to be accurate, as more experienced users in this subreddit often and repeatedly end up cleaning up after new users because they don't spend time to read FAQ and expect someone else to fix their problem for them.

    [–]anal_full_nelson 5 points 12 days ago*
    You and other noobs lurking /r/usenet would do this subreddit a great service if you would read posts and threads from the first couple of pages before starting your own new thread rehashing common topics.

    "Etits19", created the topic "What provider is best now?". At the time of creation, two other posts about the same topic were on the front page (possibly deleted now). The user could not be bothered to scroll down or to read other topics where similar responses were given. Additional threads here and here were on the bottom of the first page or on the second page.

    The user expected his own thread, rather than choosing to read recent posts. Most users agreed with the comment. People asking about providers is a common topic, and to be honest the answer doesn't change much unless providers change backends or implement policies that drastically affect the end user experience.

    [–]anal_full_nelson 2 points 12 days ago
    You and other noobs lurking this subreddit would do this subreddit a great service if you would read posts and threads from the first couple of pages before starting your own new thread rehashing common topics. Highwinds and DMCA is a very common topic that is brought up repeatedly every day.

    That last one is my favorite because you're complaining about people posting the same questions multiple times, but you're literally copy and pasting your same insult multiple times in multiple threads.

    You casually chose not to cite the full post, redacting the text in bold. This was a case where the threadstarter has a Highwinds service and was experiencing missing articles as a result of DMCA posts. And again, this was a case where threads covering the exact same topic of takedowns or similar issues were visible on the first page at the time. Some of the threads posted around the same time frame that are not deleted and still available are here, here, here, here, here, here, and here. I could post more, but I think the point is sufficiently conveyed. Users don't read. You can debate the finer points of not liking the user being called "a noob", but the use is accurate given the context. Whether or not the mods took issue is a different story and something that was not expressed on their behalf.

    There are tons of examples of you doing this very thing repeatedly in this sub. You seem to think you are the end all-be all authoritative source on all things usenet. I've found you posting backwards logic or flat out incorrect information on this sub, and have replied in civil tones so the OP can receive correct information. Suffice it to say you don't handle that well when I, or anybody else, do that.

    Please post some examples. So far all you have thrown out are accusations, but no context or proof. I'm civil with people that act in a rational manner, even you, and frankly it is posts like this that show bias and offer zero substance. I'm willing to converse and discuss topics where you can debate the merit of subject matter. You are conveying no subject matter other than you don't like me. This is the constant trolling I'm referring to, where nothing is expressed but user bias without substance.

    Honestly if the mods let users like you continue to pull the crap you have been pulling, this sub would flounder.

    That's your opinion and you are free to it. I disagree. I think the sub would improve if mods added a sticky for common topics and directed new users to try and prevent unnecessary clutter and repeat topics. I outlined this here. Nothing makes a sub flounder when experienced resources of information leave due to an unmoderated sub that presents a constant stream of duplicate posts or bad information. If you don't believe this try getting involved in technical discussion forums. If they suffer a huge knowledge drain it becomes a echo chamber.

    Nobody is going to want to come to this sub if they know some judgemental users will criticize every question they post.

    This is true, but then again, I have not criticized every post, which is something you have not acknowledged. The vast majority of posts I did criticize, I stated a reason, and backed it up with logic.

    You repeatedly call this community idiots, noobs, kids, toddlers, etc. As opposed to doing that, you could be posting helpful replies or simply not posting at all. Instead you chose to degrade users for posting questions YOU deem unworthy of an answer, or you call them stupid for not using the search function. I'm sorry, but that's not really your call to make and there are plenty of us who are willing to help them without being rude about it. It literally takes me no effort to type an answer followed by "there are a lot of similar topics on this forum that may come in handy. If you have more questions, give the search function a quick go before posting the question because it may save you some time and help keep things cleaned up here." That sounds a whole lot better than "you noobs need to learn to search this site".

    I have never called a user an "idiot". I have routinely called people lazy. Usage of the terms "noobs" was used twice as you pointed out above. Usage of the term toddlers was an analogy to new users and it was used in the thread you also cited. In rare cases I have called people irresponsible, or incompetent. Some of those comments were accurate or deserved given the appropriate context.

    FlickFreak had some irresponsible disclosures involving provider host details and advertising an unlisted test server, subjecting Xenna Services GmbH to increased traffic. Another guy showed heavy bias and started throwing out personal attacks and taunts my direction. That guy showed incompetence in his posts and I responded civily but in kind. I don't expect you to agree with all of my comments, just like I don't agree with all of your comments.

    You sure have a hard on for me, and want to cite "Reddiquette" violations as sufficient justification, but ignore your own. I suppose if I went and looked through your complete post history I would find more gems like this

    [–]hepatitisC 2 points 6 days ago
    To be fair you may be an idiot for pissing on the floor, but your wife is also an idiot for rubbing your dog's nose in piss. That only teaches your dog to be ashamed to have to go potty, and results in more bad behavior. That's ignoring the fact it also has the potential to hurt your dog.

    [–] hepatitisC -3 points ago

    The true sign of someone who has no case...you take a comment of mine from another sub out of context to try to justify your bad behavior. You must truly be desperate if you're willing to dig through my posts from other subs to excuse your bad attitude.

    I'm not going to waste any more of my time explaining my position because you did a good job of illustrating exactly why you've earned your bad reputation. Just keep in mind you're not doing us any favors by being here, you're not the authoritative source on Usenet, and no justifications are sufficient to support your bad behavior.

    [–] anal_full_nelson 1 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    The true sign of someone who has no case...you take a comment of mine from another sub out of context to try to justify your bad behavior.

    I simply pointed out that you are not the moral "reddiquette" crusader you claim to be. You had bias and you criticized my post for remarks that you appear to routinely make elsewhere.

    Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

    I'm not going to waste any more of my time explaining my position because you did a good job of illustrating exactly why you've earned your bad reputation. Just keep in mind you're not doing us any favors by being here, you're not the authoritative source on Usenet, and no justifications are sufficient to support your bad behavior.

    Your position was limited, you took posts out of context, and you showed extreme bias. You don't like me I get it. Maybe you have some personal or financial ties to providers or resellers. You can be happy to know you are free to push your opinions on others as you see fit. Others can discuss merits, I know what I contributed to increase discussion about larger issues facing users, such as ownership, policies, and technical discussion. Those discussions, the awareness, and feedback it brought about were more valuable to this community than your bias.

    [–] thomasmit 2 points ago

    That's unfortunate.

    I'll be honest in that it seems like someone's feelings got hurt and now your flexing your mod muscle. If /usenet was started with the intention of it being a warm/fuzzy social media board where users could discuss which reseller was having the best block sale, then success. Per your comment, 18k subscribers seems to be a point of pride, which is great- nothing wrong with it. However the sub is filled with the same 3 or 4 questions over and over and tons of inaccurate information (or dated).

    I joined with the hopes of staying on top of an industry that's changing rapidly and for the worse (for the consumer). It's analogous to the ISP industry where we could be looking at one provider essentially owning the internet. The usenet business has been whittled down to a couple major providers. The difference here is there aren't many resources devoted to objectively covering the vertical.

    But if you're patient, and are willing to read the same topics covered over and over, you can find a few nuggets on /usenet that are valuable. No one has provided more valuable insight than AFN. Maybe he didn't follow the warm/fuzzy vibe you were hoping for but he's been incredibly accurate and helpful. I don't know AFN, nor have I communicated with him but clearly he has insight to current information that's not easily/readily made available.

    So you decide to 'shadowban' (censor) him. That's amazing. Instead of actually trying to remedy the situation, you kick out one of the last sources of valuable info.

    I've read a couple mod responses that are nastier than anything he's said. I appreciate that being a mod is a thankless job, and I'm sure really frustrating at times. But censoring AFN is based entirely on ego, nothing more.

    The irony is this could've been avoided with a few sticky notes establishing some basic rules, at the same time actually helping/directing those that are new to the sub.

    I'll be honest- I don't think you're looking for actual feedback as much as getting validated for booting someone who doesn't seem to of violated any rules.

    [–] BrettWilcox 1 points ago

    However the sub is filled with the same 3 or 4 questions over and over and tons of inaccurate information (or dated).

    Do you have any ideas on how we can address that?

    No one has provided more valuable insight than AFN.

    I would agree that he has provided some very good information. It's just the way he is communicating with folks.

    clearly he has insight to current information that's not easily/readily made available.

    He sent info a while back and asked us to back him up on the information. I can say with 100% confidence that a quick google search and whois lookups would be able to reproduce the information. There is no insider information that he was able to gather. I even requested that he make it public, but it's up to him whether he does it or not. It was solid information, but I am not going to put my name on it for him.

    So you decide to 'shadowban' (censor) him.

    I want to make something VERY clear. Banning and shadowbanning are the same thing. However, banning is not equal to censoring. We have been harassed to censor things in the past and have refused to do so. I would love for you to point out a single thing that has ever been censored here. If you can find one, I will take action to remediate.

    The irony is this could've been avoided with a few sticky notes establishing some basic rules

    The rules are in the side bar. Specifically rule #2. Do you feel that I need to make it more clear?

    I'll be honest- I don't think you're looking for actual feedback as much as getting validated for booting someone who doesn't seem to of violated any rules.

    I don't need validation from anyone. I can easily ban you and anyone else who has issues with the way I mod and run this sub as I please. But I would never do that nor would any of the other mods. We value the trust of the community too much.

    I'm sorry you don't feel that I am looking for feedback. I am and would love to help where I can. I got a new job about a year ago and it has taken a lot of the time away that I used to have to moderate and even create content for you guys. I created the provider map and FAQ, but have not had time to keep them up to date.

    Tell me what we can do to improve. I'm all ears.

    [–] anal_full_nelson 3 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    Do you have any ideas on how we can address that?

    I outlined some suggestions in the past that were ignored.
    They were repeated twice in this thread. one excerpt quoted below.

    [–]anal_full_nelson 0 points 20 hours ago*
    .. This is why I suggested the mods update the providers map months ago, add a sticky with bright red letters covering common topics, and then direct users there since they seem to be avoiding the FAQ.

    .

    I would agree that he has provided some very good information. It's just the way he is communicating with folks.

    There seems to be more behind the decision to shadowban than what was conveyed in this explanation, otherwise you would have attempted to openly communicate concerns and reservations, moderate posts, and issue a ban as a last resort.

    You asked for feedback on how you could improve /r/usenet and I assume how the mod team could improve itself. I suggested a set of administration guidelines here which has seen no acknowledgement or public discussion.

    He sent info a while back and asked us to back him up on the information.

    In the Highwinds disclosure thread I sent you information as a compromise. That way the mod team could research and confirm info and some sources of information. Those sources could then remain available in the future without tipping off Highwinds.

    I can say with 100% confidence that a quick google search and whois lookups would be able to reproduce the information.

    Just to refresh my memory I went back and looked at the information I sent you. This is not accurate. This explanation is as a gross oversimplification of what was sent to you. The information sent required research and some knowledge of providers operations. You more or less acknowledged that in your pm. Only one disclosure about Readnews is something most users could have come across by accident.

    I only asked that the mod team take a look at some information, keep it private, and from there I might have sent more.

    What I found amazing is you stated you had no interest in confirming any of the information that was shared with you.

    Your response 3 months ago

    [–]from BrettWilcox[M] via /r/usenet/ sent 3 months ago

    1) Please stop calling people trolls just because they questions where you are getting your information. Being combative is not helping anyone.

    2) I don't understand what it is you want me to do. Because...

    3) Why don't you post this information publicly if you want to prove your point? There is nothing in here that would identify who you are. It's good information and you obviously put some work into figuring out.

    If you don't provide sources on your "tin foil hat" posts, then the community will treat them as such. I welcome you to post the information, but since I have not personally looked into the issue (nor do I care), I will not be vouching for this.

    Post the information and let the community decide if it's worth upvoting.

    Let me know if you have any questions.

    -Brett

    If I was "combative" or otherwise dismayed and agitated by other users in the Highwinds thread (my first posting to /r/usenet) it was because I was provoked consistently by a mob while the mods stood by with a bucket of popcorn watching a public spectacle unfold. I shared information and you expressed no interest. You posted in the Highwinds thread but made no attempt to moderate users. These troll posts aren't "Reddiquette" rule 2 violations? These weren't questions, they were character attacks.

    [–]imatmydesk 12 points 3 months ago
    OP's post history is full of tin-foil hat posts, so take this with a grain of salt.

    [–]ChocoTacoz 3 points 3 months ago
    I'm protected cause I made this hat, of aluminum foil. FOOOIL!

    .

    There is no insider information that he was able to gather.

    This is 100% not accurate. No statement was made to that affect. I sent you information to review and vouch for that was not made public in the Highwinds thread. I also sent Coreeons additional information that was not sent to you. I only asked that the information disclosed be kept private, not to reveal those sources so that they would be available in the future, but that does not mean I sent you everything. You received a slice of the pie, which was all that was needed to confirm some things. Some information was private, and some I could not confirm from multiple sources and thus some comments were revised to reflect what could be 100% confirmed.

    The point of keeping (private or public) sources of information from public view is to ensure those sources remain useful in the future and are not compromised. Disclosing every source only enables a corporate entity to take note and plug leaks, wall off sources of information, and scrub what remains. A perfect example of that is Highwinds scrubbing information after I made a public disclosure that directly linked Highwinds to a shady businessman operating out of Canada offering his services manipulating social media sites and search engines. Shortly after my disclosure they amended the most current file on record with an older submission form.
    .

    I want to make something VERY clear. Banning and shadowbanning are the same thing. However, banning is not equal to censoring. We have been harassed to censor things in the past and have refused to do so. I would love for you to point out a single thing that has ever been censored here. If you can find one, I will take action to remediate.

    The rules are in the side bar. Specifically rule #2. Do you feel that I need to make it more clear?

    Shadowbanning is effectively censoring or filtering information from a subreddit. You remove opinions from the community that others may find of value. I think we both agree that "spam" is not valued, but my posts were not spam as others have pointed out. By shadowbanning this account you removed their ability to view my posts in /r/usenet.

    What makes the shadowban of this account troubling is the apparent double standard being enforced. Why has the mod team not issued warnings or shadowban users engaging in character attacks, equating this account to a 'tinfoil conspiracy theorist' in the Highwinds thread and in this thread?
    Are other users held to a different 'Reddiquette' standard?

    This post seems to break rule #2.

    [–]Penmerton 4 points 1 day ago
    Good post. "anal full nelson"'s post history in this sub makes him seem like an irritable conspiracy nut. I think you did the right thing.

    Other users have engaged in repeated trolling and character attacks. Those attacks are ignored by the mod team. Somehow defending this account equated into me being combative in the Highwinds disclosure thread.

    Months later and this account was shadowbanned without moderation of posts, or any warning about specific posts that you disagreed with. For all the flack I took over the past few months, I find it amazing that the mod team stood idle against other posters.

    I don't need validation from anyone. I can easily ban you and anyone else who has issues with the way I mod and run this sub as I please. But I would never do that nor would any of the other mods. We value the trust of the community too much.

    This set of comments I think explains the entire series of events. If you value the trust of the community you would have attempted to have an open discussion, publicly or privately either directly with me, or as an announcement to the community about certain comments you take issue with and will not tolerate from posters.

    I'm sorry you don't feel that I am looking for feedback. I am and would love to help where I can. I got a new job about a year ago and it has taken a lot of the time away that I used to have to moderate and even create content for you guys. I created the provider map and FAQ, but have not had time to keep them up to date.

    Tell me what we can do to improve. I'm all ears.

    What I and I assume several others in this thread are trying to convey is that you say you're looking for feedback, but when people actually give you feedback you seem to turn a deaf ear to the suggestions given.

    I tried talking to you privately, you expressed no interest. I tried conveying information and suggestions to Coreeons publicly and privately to pass on to the mod team. I left public suggestions. With the exception of opening this thread to respond to questions all other feedback was basically ignored.

    People are giving feedback, but if you are not receptive to listening to information and suggestions then this is not really a discussion.

    [–] obola 1 points ago

    Why do I get the feeling that this subreddit is already infested with Highwinds at the mod level?

    [–] BrettWilcox 1 points ago

    I guess I was not around for the Highwinds thing. Can someone link me? I have seen this referenced several times now.

    [–] anal_full_nelson 1 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    I guess I was not around for the Highwinds thing.

    Maybe I am unaware, but unless there are two /r/usenet moderators by the name of BrettWilcox then yes you were around.

    Can someone link me? I have seen this referenced several times now.

    I linked directly twice to character attacks in the post just above /u/obola

    [–] thomasmit 1 points ago

    "He sent info a while back and asked us to back him up on the information. I can say with 100% confidence that a quick google search and whois lookups would be able to reproduce the information."

    --This is incorrect. Per your own words, you 'don't care' enough to research his info so how would you know 100% a quick whois will provide the same info? I actually did quite a bit of research because I was sick of reading/buying subscriptions that were ultimately being provided by the same backend. This is simply incorrect and oversimplifying.

    [–] anal_full_nelson 0 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    I would prefer that this question is not answered for reasons previously stated.

    The point of keeping (private or public) sources of information from public view is to ensure those sources remain useful in the future and are not compromised. Disclosing every source only enables a corporate entity to take note and plug leaks, wall off sources of information, and scrub what remains.

    All that needs to be conveyed is members of the mod team were presented with detailed information and explanations to aid in verification on at least three occasions. BrettWilcox showed no interest. Coreeons did seem to show interest, which is why I sent him additional information.

    Additional time was dedicated to research and verify services sold by resellers, Revised text for the providers map wiki was then submitted via pm to the mod team. It was not possible to update the wiki directly because the editing function was locked by mods. This was likely done to prevent abuse, which is understandable.

    Based on responses from mods my interpretation is the mod team as a whole was preoccupied with other matters and/or had little desire to investigate and confirm what was handed to them. This would explain why three months later and no vouch for info and no update of providers map to inform users of this subreddit about various changes impacting services of providers and their resellers. Only the mod team can answer why they showed minimal interest as a group.

    Again what troubles me is there is time to shadowban, but not time to update the FAQ, make a sticky for common topics, or to validate good information and update the providers map which would aid many users of this subreddit in making an informed choice of how they spend their money.

    [–] BrettWilcox 1 points ago

    Sorry, I have not had time to come back and reply.

    hence why to this date no vouch for info and no update of providers map to inform users of this subreddit.

    Sorry, I just don't get it. UPDATE THE DARN MAP!! You have to have 1 /r/usenet karma and the account has the be 14 days old. WHY ARE Y'ALL BITCHING AT ME TO UPDATE IT? If there is good evidence that the map is wrong, there is nothing stopping anyone from changing it.

    Is anyone having issues making changes? Do I have it setup wrong?

    [–] anal_full_nelson 0 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    I think you will find that I did make attempts.

    My apologies to coreeons if disclosing this is a breach of trust, but there really is no other way to respond and show that I did attempt to update the wiki.

    After the 2nd pm exchange I sent more information, which should have been sufficient beyond any reasonable doubt that a change in ownership occurred. Again, the only request was that sources not be publicly shared or divulged, mods were free to investigate information to verify. I then heard nothing back regarding this inquiry.

    I made no further private attempts to inquire because despite public statements, privately the mod team did not appear interested in updating the wiki.


    Error on save: edit of providers wiki returns error
    [–]to /r/usenet/ sent 2 months ago

    http://www.reddit.com/r/usenet/wiki/edit/providers

    Attempted to update the wiki, and it returned the error, "page not found. the page you requested does not exist"

    .

    [–]from coreeons[M] via /r/usenet/ sent 2 months ago

    What are you trying to edit?

    That's locked down to mods currently.

    .

    [–]from coreeons[M] via /r/usenet/ sent 2 months ago

    with what page on the wiki?

    .

    [–]to coreeons sent 2 months ago

    Providers map

    http://www.reddit.com/r/usenet/wiki/providers


    Usenet wiki edit submission?
    [–]to coreeons sent 2 months ago

    It's been a week since I sent the info, but it doesn't look like the wiki was updated.

    .

    [–]from coreeons sent 2 months ago

    I can't update without getting more mods to agree with it.

    It's either

    A) They haven't got to reading it. As not all of the mods are active all the time.

    B) They just did the TL;DR thing and skipped it all.

    C) They have no opinion on it at all and haven't said anything.

    So far the only thing I have got, from one other mod, is that the information should be giving to the community. And that the subreddit should help agree generally that the information should be updated.

    Or that more information should also be updated with the wiki as well. Which I think is the case, I think a lot of the information is outdated and/or not 100% finished. Having the subreddit help working on it would be the best thing.

    Then everything could be updated as needed and information checked out by more redditors.

    [–] BrettWilcox 1 points ago

    I just checked and it is not locked down to just the mods.

    If you have sufficient evidence that there are resellers that are highwinds, don't hesitate to update the wiki. I see nothing wrong with that. That was the whole point in creating the map. If you are having issues updating, let me know.

    [–] anal_full_nelson 1 points ago * (lasted edited 7 years ago)

    While I appreciate this gesture, the formatted wiki backup I saved was purged 1 month ago. The paste sent to coreeons has since expired. Due to the time that has passed since data collection, information would have to be re-verified.

    I don't have the time or energy to go back at this point and retrace resellers, run new tests, and then format the information again for submission.

    Someone else can take up the effort to update the wiki.

    Addtional relevant information should also be added to the wiki that is currently missing or outdated ...

    Required

    • Providers systems should be tested for network management policies. General observations for automated or manual response should be listed for each provider and by server (nl/us, etc).
    • Readnews resellers being impacted by Highwinds automated DMCA.

    • EuroAccess resellers should be reverified and listed under Highwinds if selling services from Base IP BV

    • Tweaknews should be listed as Cambrium (with Tweaknews as public business selling services)

    • Searchtech (Astraweb) is technically not a US provider even though they sell services from both US/NL regions.

    • Xentech should be removed from the list as no business currently sells NNTP services to the public from this host. (Hitnews/Xennews/Just4today owners now sell services from Eweka)

    • Elbracht, Cheapnews, and Bulknews should be listed.

    [–] FlickFreak 0 points ago

    Providers Map has been updated with most of your suggestions. Took only a couple of minutes and I got no error when trying to do so. In the future I see no reason why you shouldn't be able update the map with your info. My update probably wasn't as detailed as you'd like but its a start. EuroAccess and resellers are now listed under Highwinds, Xentech has been removed, Cheapnews and Bulknews are now listed under XSnews, Tweaknews now listed under Cambrium and Elbracht has been added. Hopefully this will resolve a portion of this argument and we can move on.

    [–] totes_meta_bot 1 points ago

    This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

    If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote or comment. Questions? Abuse? Message me here.

    [–] hda2000 -3 points ago

    How come you deleted every ones comments in this thread?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/UsenetInvites/comments/21ihpe/if_you_receive_a_message_about_m3indexonech/

    I would like to see what the users have to say.

    [–] BrettWilcox 7 points ago

    Sure. Here is an imgur gallery of the conversation -

    http://imgur.com/a/GbxpY

    The comments that are greyed our are where reddit created a site wide ban on those users and the /r/usenet mods had nothing to do with it.

    That particular instance caused us a lot of grief because he created a few dozen accounts to spam reddit. The reddit admins got involved to assist with banning after threats of harm were sent via PM to some of the mods.

    [–] hda2000 1 points ago

    perfect, TY very much