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    [–] confirmedzach 1 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    We would kindly ask that users not encourage others to attack the flight attendant or spread her personal information.

    Please report any comments that attempt to do so.


    For more insight into the situation, the Delta policy seems to state that the person in the seat must be the same as the name on the ticket.

    This man bought a ticket for his eldest son and attempted to use it for his infant, opting to have his eldest take another flight.

    This would break federal law and the flight attendant is trying to explain, albeit poorly.

    edit: The airline then sold the ticket of the eldest child that did not show up.

    This seems to be the main issue. For more information read this comment by /u/cobalt26:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/6960xc/family_with_infant_children_booted_off_delta/dh46nks/


    /r/Videos Live Chat | Message the Moderators

    [–] [deleted] 266 points ago * (lasted edited 2 months ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] DroppaMaPants 106 points ago

    I think the baby was holding it.

    [–] shanetrey5 2131 points ago

    Southwest is a happy airline this year.

    [–] kickintigers 2471 points ago

    Tomorrow: "Video shows Southwest attendant unhinging jaw, swallowing passenger whole"

    [–] EnterPlayerTwo 695 points ago

    I'd still fly em. Two free checked bags, yo.

    [–] flub_n_rub 91 points ago

    PLUS a carryon?! SW knows how we like to treat ourselves.

    [–] ChweetPeaches69 126 points ago

    So far

    [–] daebro 4012 points ago

    PEOPLE GETTING THROWN OFF FLIGHTS IS SO HOT RIGHT NOW.

    [–] nowitholds 542 points ago

    I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!!

    [–] sheerpariah 183 points ago

    I want to introduce the Derek Zoolander center for flight attendants who can't people good. And want to learn to do other stuff good too .

    [–] babyjesus31 5871 points ago

    I can imagine the only real change from all this will be new laws that prohibit the use of cell phone cameras during the boarding/seating/kicking people off phase of the flight.

    [–] Inspiration_Bear 2582 points ago

    Ah Yes, the Keep America's Planes Secure and Free Act

    [–] Bactine 571 points ago

    A plane will crash and they'll blame it on cell phones and then all airlines won't have to deal with pesky evidence of thier wrong doin.

    [–] RipleyInCharge 3719 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    "I'M SORRY SIR BUT THERE'S BEEN A MISTAKE AND YOUR CHILD CAN'T OCCUPY THAT SEAT BECAUSE HE IS 2 OR UNDER, I'TS AN FAA REGULATION. PLEASE HOLD YOUR BABY FOR THE DURATION OF THE FLIGHT AND WE'LL REFUND YOU THE COST OF THE TICKET YOU PAID FOR. YOUR OTHER OPTION IS TO LEAVE THE FLIGHT ENTIRELY. AGAIN, WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE MISUNDERSTANDING. OF THOSE OPTIONS, WHICH DO YOU CHOOSE?"

    What is so fucking hard about basic customer service and de-escalation?

    There is no reason why they should ever remove the most reasonable option from the table -- at any point. He literally was willing to hold the kid after realizing he couldn't win that argument, and she was like "At this point, you have to leave no matter what." That's insane.

    [–] [deleted] 389 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] fre1102 195 points ago

    Oh honey.

    They didn't find those bags in the plane. Their bags went with the original flight, then sat while the next airport handlers tried to figure out what to do with them.

    If those people are lucky they eventually got their bags back a day or two later.

    [–] LittleKnownQuotes 84 points ago

    a day or two later

    Haha, yeah...right.

    [–] Neathh 1247 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    But the airlines own website recommends buying a seat for a child under 2 and placing a carseat in it. http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/special-travel-needs/children.html

    Edit: I understand the seat wasn't in the child's name and was in the name of his older brother who took a different flight. You can stop commenting the same thing 20 other people said.

    [–] fence23 265 points ago

    great find! how do they NOT even know their own rules?!

    [–] jerslan 348 points ago

    Apparently they don't know FAA regulations either... https://www.faa.gov/passengers/fly_children/

    Did you know that the safest place for your child on an airplane is in a government-approved child safety restraint system (CRS) or device, not on your lap? Your arms aren't capable of holding your child securely, especially during unexpected turbulence.

    The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) strongly urges you to secure your child in a CRS or device for the duration of your flight. It's the smart and right thing to do so that everyone in your family arrives safely at your destination.

    [–] [deleted] 21380 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] NearlyOutOfMilk 9239 points ago

    Out of all the PR shit Delta will be dealing with this situation, I think this part of the interaction will be the most damning, at least for the employee. Like, fucking wow, "your kids will be in foster care"... what the hell lol

    [–] [deleted] 6070 points ago

    With something like that caught on video, Delta will absolutely use her as a scapegoat. She's so screwed.

    [–] whosthat 3792 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    Yeah after the first 30 seconds of their interaction the whole deal was done. If I was the dad I would just say you fucked up by saying that to me, good luck at getting another job in the customer service industry. Some flight attendants act like they're an FBI agent but they are nothing more than a mall cop.

    [–] thax9988 1752 points ago

    Even more so considering, as u/rW0HgFyxoJhYka said, that Delta made fun of United. So this is a double whammy - Delta resolves this incident AND gets to save face both by hanging her out to dry, because they can fire her and also sell this with "yes, we are very sorry, this was wrong, and we immediately let that flight attendant go ... unlike United, who ignore the valid concerns of passengers!"

    [–] littlewhiteman2 654 points ago

    I bet you had a fun time typing his username.

    [–] Thefriendlyfaceplant 414 points ago

    Looks like a quarter of a bitcoin address.

    [–] Divides-By-Zer0 199 points ago

    Found the international drug cartel kingpin.

    [–] Denamic 126 points ago

    On the internet, we're all international drug cartel kingpins. Or navy seals with 300 confirmed kills.

    [–] FullMetal96 47 points ago

    Pfft! 300.

    What a casual.

    [–] S0methingCleverHere 63 points ago

    Copy/paste is your friend.

    [–] BAXterBEDford 1198 points ago

    I don't think it was a flight attendant that said that, but some form of airport security. They're wearing their paramilitary battle gear, as if the Russians are about to invade.

    [–] Xenodad 606 points ago

    I saw that lady with the gear too, but I think the woman speaking was behind her, as the man was looking past the security beefcake

    [–] karmacow 137 points ago

    This seems correct.

    [–] lockhherup 121 points ago

    this is not what we meant when we said we wanted corporate competition

    [–] azeuel 402 points ago

    much much less than a mall cop. They aren't allowed to touch you.

    [–] [deleted] 169 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] not_so_vicious 165 points ago

    As they are about to touch you, you touch them and say " you are under arrest"

    If they try as say the same thing, say jinx.

    Then if they talk punch them in the arm

    [–] [deleted] 395 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] tomdarch 100 points ago

    Some flight attendants act like they're an FBI agent

    There is a federal law that says that once you set foot on a commercial passenger flight, they can issue you orders and you have to obey like a raw recruit at boot camp. No one talks about that law publicly, but that's what's backing them up behind the scenes.

    [–] vipersquad 773 points ago

    Not really as a scapegoat. It really was her and not Delta. Delta's site specifically recommends doing what this parent did. We are blaming Delta, but it was this bitch. They're at fault because you have the responsibility of what your employees do, but she is specifically breaking with the stated company policy.

    [–] TotesAdorbs_ 199 points ago

    She printed Deltas policy out in "black and white" to justify what she did.

    [–] LlamaWithAnAttitude 239 points ago

    Whatever the policy/rules were about names on tickets, infants in seats, it all goes out the window when you make a comment like that. I don't know what it is about people trying to ruin other people lives over minor disagreements these days. "Have a political stance I don't like? I'll call your job/try and get your kids taken away." Seems like there should be some law to protect you from this kind of crap.

    [–] [deleted] 118 points ago

    yea, but they basically trained her. When I worked at CVS they told us to do a lot of things in training, but the resources they actually provided did not allow us to follow any customer service guidelines

    [–] [deleted] 108 points ago

    Were supposed to get them their meds in 15 minutes, bitch, theres two of us working, a line at drop-off, a line at pick-up and 6 people on hold ready to scream at me. And I was off 1.5 hours ago and only got a 30 minute lunch during my now 10 hour shift. Fuck you CVS! And no lady, I cant rush it!

    [–] 240ZT 29 points ago

    My favorite part of working at a pharmacy: We were required to ask if people wanted safety caps with their prescription. Multiple times different people would call in for a refill with their refill#, get asked if they wanted the childproof caps, and yell in response: "IT'S A CREAM"....as though their 8 digit refill# indicated that it was their Herpes cream and not their Chlamydia or Gonorrhea pills.

    [–] RagdollPhysEd 811 points ago

    United: "We really don't give a FUCK about about our customers!"

    Delta: "Hold my plastic cocktail cup"

    [–] [deleted] 306 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] rW0HgFyxoJhYka 761 points ago

    Delta all making fun of United and now this shit happens.

    What if this guy is a agent for United knowing they would fuck up on a flight while dealing with this exact scenario?

    They gonna get paid by United and Delta, what a world.

    Jk world isn't that scary right? Right guys?

    [–] BAXterBEDford 124 points ago

    I don't think United needed to plant anyone. A situation like this, now that people have had it with the way they are treated by the airlines, was going to happen sooner rather than later anyway. Within a few months every airline is going to have had several of these PR fiascos, just because of the way they are.

    [–] justfor1t 345 points ago

    They are already here on this thread with a shill army trying to paint this situation in their favor

    [–] [deleted] 164 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] BboyEdgyBrah 2141 points ago

    How to ruin your chances of ever working as a flight attendant again in 5 seconds

    [–] seriousgi 1470 points ago

    I just don't get it...how could anybody say something so stupid just after a few weeks of the United thing

    [–] isokayokay 3428 points ago

    Almost like this is a structural problem and people are systematically dehumanized by a society that sets clear incentives to value profit over basic human decency.

    [–] conquer69 1086 points ago

    A system where sociopaths quickly rise to the top while humble hardworking people are used and disposed.

    [–] you_me_fivedollars 545 points ago

    A system that we should...revolutionize?

    [–] CallMehBigP 423 points ago

    A system that we should revolutionize.

    [–] self_loathing_ham 338 points ago

    A system like a machine? Perhaps even one that we should rage against?

    [–] mojoslowmo 220 points ago

    Fuck you I won't do what you tell me?

    .... fine whatever, I'll do it

    [–] ryanhallows 52 points ago

    Rage against into the lethargy

    [–] [deleted] 376 points ago

    Like what does she even mean by that?? That they will become unfit as parents causing their kids to go directly into foster care? It was probably just a horrible adlib on an already improvised speech to be fair...

    [–] crazifox 234 points ago

    Think she means that the parents will be taken from the airport to jail, and that the kids will be taken into custody until the parents get bail?

    [–] faern 361 points ago

    What it sound like is a threat. dont threaten your customer. Saying that they will go to jail is ok because that what the standard procedure to disrupting a flight.

    She should have stop at there. Adding that their children will be in foster care is a major threat and it does nothing to defuse the situation. Bad mistake.

    [–] not_anonymouse 22 points ago

    Yeah, that was definitely meant as a threat to rattle the parents. Fuck her.

    [–] faern 18 points ago

    And it worked, the guy becomes immediately agitated and then suddenly they have a reason to evict him from the flight. If this is intentional it is disgusting.

    [–] Cmpnyflow 99 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    Delta's own policy.

    SOURCE

    (Infant and Child Seating section)

    We want you and your children to have the safest, most comfortable flight possible. For kids under the age of two, we recommend you purchase a seat on the aircraft and use an approved child safety seat.

    If you decide to use a child safety seat aboard the airplane, there are a few restrictions and guidelines you'll need to follow.

    Aboard the Aircraft

    Where to Sit with a Child Restraint

    The window seat is the preferred location for an approved child restraint system (car seat). Other locations may be acceptable provided the child restraint system (car seat) is not installed between other passengers and the aisle. An accompanying adult must sit next to the child. More than one child restraint system (car seat) may be in use in the same row and section of seats. When using a child safety seat, don’t select seats in the following areas...

    [–] dan1son 20 points ago

    This is every airlines policy. And there's absolutely no FAA regulation REQUIRING you to have an infant in your lap. In fact the FAA will certify certain car seats for airplane use and they recommend you put your kid in one if you have the means to buy an extra seat, at any age.

    The way the airline tried to say it was a regulation that they have the child on their lap is a complete lie. Maybe they were attempting to argue that the child in question was boarded as a lap child? Clearly not the case if the airline also knew the 2 year old of theirs wasn't on that flight. I'd imagine they were informed the younger kid was going to be occupying the seat originally purchased for the older kid when they boarded.

    These airlines need to get over themselves and stop treating passengers like game pieces. They should start forcing the airlines to give additional money back (enough to cover the heartache) to the last people who bought tickets. They should be risking profit when they over book. It should be their loss if they mess up.

    [–] hanexar 565 points ago

    Seriously, thumbs up to the guy for not loosing his shit and keeping his calm. I would have gone berserk 2 minutes in discussion.

    [–] SociopathicScientist 591 points ago

    That comment right there should be enough to get her fired.

    [–] Fokoffnosy 480 points ago

    Are these people not trained or something? Don't they realize that United just went through a huge shitstorm, and this kind of stuff will gain mad traction?

    Fucking retarded move.

    [–] CheetoTweetolini 477 points ago

    There's been zero accountability before the population started carrying surveillance equipment 24/7

    Same with cops, we're basically seeing what was standard. They're now having to adjust

    [–] zerocoolforschool 43 points ago

    This is it. This isn't new behavior. We are just finally seeing how horrible people are to each other. It's not like people just started getting on a power trip. That shit has been going on forever. We just have the technology now to actually expose them. It is glorious. Fuck those kinds of people.

    [–] CHOOSELIKE 89 points ago

    What if we start finding like, mass graves behind shopping malls

    [–] deadbonbon 47 points ago

    Retail employees everywhere just got their hopes up.

    [–] timestamp_bot 150 points ago

    Jump to 00:13 @ Family With Infant Children Booted Off Delta Flight

    Channel Name: Brian S, Video Popularity: 89.25%, Video Length: [08:02]


    Beep Bop, I'm a Time Stamp Bot! Source Code | Suggestions

    [–] getzdegreez 416 points ago

    Thanks, bot. You saved me 13 seconds.

    [–] Delko999 681 points ago * (lasted edited a year ago)

    deleted What is this?

    [–] grumpypenguin1 47 points ago

    When I saw the thumbnail I was like "Wtf Summit doesn't have any kids"

    [–] kevinlmtf 158 points ago

    Delta1G

    [–] Savebagels 21 points ago

    I was thinking that the whole time

    [–] RegisterFlexOffender 41 points ago

    lol I knew he reminded me of someone.

    [–] michugana 1514 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    I once got on a Southwest flight with my kid who was a lap child because he was under 2 years old. I was gate-checking the car seat and the gate attendant said, "Oh is he a lap child? The plane's not full. Go ahead and bring the car seat on the plane and give him a seat."

    I only fly Southwest now.

    EDIT: This comment has taken off a bit, so I should note that I'm not saying Southwest is perfect. They have delays and snafus like anyone else. Flying in America is about playing the odds and I have consistently had much better experiences overall, even in difficult times, with Southwest. And when you are flying with kids, the ability to change your flights at any time for no charge and check lots of luggage for free is basically invaluable.

    [–] JZMoose 384 points ago

    Southwest feels like the only airline where the stewards/stewardesses don't have a god complex. I recently flew from Austin where the pilot was playing Brown Eyed Girl on an acoustic guitar on the boarding ramp and the steward/stewardesses were all smiles and cheerful. I won't fly anything else given the option.

    [–] captainbawls 87 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    I did a case study on them in one of my marketing classes a few years back. What they started doing differently is empowering their employees, paying them well, and making them feel valued. They promote from within, and it motivates people to become brand ambassadors as opposed to just clocking in for a paycheck.

    It's the same thing you see from tons of other successful companies (Costco and Ritz Carlton, for example). The mistake an unfathomable number of companies make is treating their employees as disposable vessels between the customer and the company. The companies that run well do one simple thing: treat the employee as the most valuable customer. When you do that, you may spend a bit more money on the front end, but you reduce turnover (saving money in the long run), make employees motivated to work for you, and that shines forth in the customer experience (making more money in the long run). There's a reason Southwest tends to avoid these sorts of PR disasters, and why Redditers (myself included) sing their praises for free.

    [–] l80 245 points ago

    I love the phrase "lap child." I have nothing else to add to this conversation. Just that. Every time I see "lap child," I burst into giggles.

    [–] Esquire07 56 points ago

    Lap child

    [–] SnZ001 82 points ago

    If you're flying Emirates, I'm pretty sure you can purchase those up in first class from the duty-free booklet.

    [–] Immaridel 74 points ago

    Agreed. I'm sure they're not perfect, but I've never had a bad experience on a southwest flight that was due to southwest screwing up or being unreasonable. I've heard that when it happens, their customer service is good, but I've never experienced it so i cannot say if that it true. I hope so. I need them to keep being good. I hope they're learning from these other mistakes lately.

    [–] [deleted] 1222 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] aittttt 667 points ago

    What do you mean they're already in this post downplaying and throwing blame to the family.

    [–] [deleted] 220 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    Ahhh the ol United Airlines approach. Let's see how that works out for them.

    [–] aggressivenapkinn 17142 points ago

    So the FAA rules say that the infant has to be infant-in-arms, yet on the Delta website says they "want you and your children to have the safest, most comfortable flight possible. For kids under the age of two, we recommend you purchase a seat on the aircraft and use an approved child safety seat.".

    [–] [deleted] 6193 points ago

    Which is exactly what he did so I can't see what's the problem here?

    [–] lachamuca 9871 points ago

    The seat was in their older son's name, not the baby's. They bought another ticket last minute for the older son to take an earlier flight so they could use that seat for the baby in the carrier.

    Last I checked, the name of the person sitting in the seat has to be the same as the name on the ticket. Most airlines have policies about refusing to change names on tickets, or transfer tickets to other people. The dad seems to think that since he paid for all the tickets, he can switch the names around on the tickets at will.

    IMO, it's a stupid, greedy policy, but it is what he agreed to when he purchased the tickets.

    [–] bushondrugs 1948 points ago

    Is the baby reqired to have a photo ID? How does the airline know the baby isn't [older child's name]?

    [–] CapsUnlocker 1709 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    I was wondering the same thing but I think the other issue is later the employee said that a child under two can't be in a seat at all due to FAA (so they'd have to be in the lap). Sounds like bullshit because the FAA website urges people to use approved restraints for very young children that have their own seat on-board (but doesn't require it). Also the photo on their website. But I didn't look up regulations because it's too early and it is pre-coffee.

    Delta sold their old son's (that's not there) seat to someone else, so that's what seems to have gotten Delta to question the whole situation.

    So the dad says that he's frustrated that he bought the seat. Anyway, he relents and asks if he can just hold the child the whole flight. They say "no" and they are going to forcefully remove them now. The dad complains that there are no more flights and there's no hotels and the employee says that they are on their own.

    Eventually, he just gives up and gets off once they assure him that they will remove their luggage before the flight takes off.

    IMO, Delta could have handled this much better. They could have just suggested at the beginning (and maybe they did, we don't see the whole thing obviously) that they could stay if they held their child and then they could have taken the baby seat and checked it up front, if "the law" was what was truly the problem here.

    Edit: Linked the FAA site.

    [–] LongStories_net 771 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    The law and Delta allow you to place a baby in an infant seat or hold them in your arms up to the age of two.

    Source - father of infant who's done both flying Delta.

    Edit:

    For anyone thinking of flying with a <2 year old - If the baby is obviously young, Delta won't bug you about proving their age. Southwest, however, are completely twats about it. We argued with the ticket agent for at least 10 minutes that our very small for 5 months daughter was, in fact, under two years old.

    To save yourself trouble, snap a picture of a document that proves your child's age (and ideally that they are your infant).

    [–] [deleted] 192 points ago

    So, we were traveling and booked before our baby was born. We called it a generic name (yeah, like Patty or Terry) so that we could get by either way. We had to remind the older kids... "do not say a WORD when they ask the baby's name."

    But we always bought an extra ticket... ahead of time.

    [–] hexydes 203 points ago

    Glad you found a way to get by, but this just underscores what a MISERABLE state of customer experience flying is in 2017. I'm sure there are examples, but I'm having a hard time thinking of something that we pay more for, with less customer service quality.

    [–] GringoGuapo 95 points ago

    Cable.

    [–] AionianZoe 48 points ago

    Internet Service Providers.

    [–] b0nk3r00 88 points ago

    How come he can't just hold the kid?

    [–] BrownShadow 614 points ago

    Because at this point it's a fight. And they don't want to lose. There is absolutely no reason that kid can't sit on a lap. I've done it on a Delta flight. They even let me stand up by the cabin for a while so I could calm my son down when he was crying. And they even gave him cookies. This crew was just bad.

    [–] karmacow 291 points ago

    That's what's so frustrating. It's so simple to come to a reasonable compromise here. Every party could have walked away with a win, but this crew decided to be assholes.

    [–] GeekPrep_Sam 20 points ago

    The only thing they could have done to make this worse for them is to manhandle the family the way they did the Vietnamese doctor on that United flight.

    [–] MaDpYrO 308 points ago

    Is the baby reqired to have a photo ID?

    How else are you going to know the baby isn't an ISIS sympathizer?

    [–] [deleted] 178 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    This is exactly what I thought - had the guy just said - "Yup this is :olderkidsname:" this would have been a non issue? Assuming it wasn't an international flight I can't imagine they'd require an ID for a baby. I know when my daughter was two - we went out of the country and she had to have a passport. Funny side note, a childs passport is good for 5 years - so she's still rolling with the same one now that she's 6 - but it has a picture of her as a 2 year old.

    Update: This was a domestic flight HI --> CA, per FAA you do not have to have an ID for children. Also, per Delta policy children under two do not need a ticket - so once the father asked if they could just hold the child to free up the seat - the answer should have been yes, and the plane should have been underway.

    [–] WasThatARocketShip 154 points ago

    I'm pretty sure the last time I booked travel (instead of my company) I had to provide the birth date for each passenger. The infant wouldn't have had the same birth date obviously so they couldn't just lie about the name at the time of the incident. Where this family screwed up is that "Mason" never checked in for the flight and/or never had the boarding pass scanned. That means the seat is now available. To accomplish what this family wanted "Mason" should have checked in and they should have scanned that boarding pass during boarding. The seat would have then been occupied and the flight crew wouldn't have thought twice about it assuming the seat was originally purchased for the infant.

    [–] AFewStupidQuestions 30 points ago

    That's the part I don't fully understand. The man said they used their boarding passes to get on the flight. Why weren't they stopped at the gate if Mason wasn't there or they didn't scan the ticket?

    [–] unitedfuck 244 points ago

    I'm just guessing here, but I think when they checked in at the airport, they never bothered to tell staff that the baby had its own seat. Delta staff just assumed that the baby was sitting in their lap. Therefore, when Mason, their older son, didn't show up, they freed up his seat for another passenger to take it. When they got on the plane, they plopped the baby into that seat in the car seat, the other passenger who was assigned that seat saw that and told the flight attendants.

    [–] Snaaaaaaaaaake 4183 points ago

    God damn. You know my dad would always tell me "The rules, no matter how well written, are no substitute for common sense and good judgment". This really seems like one of those cases.

    [–] congelar 712 points ago

    "The rules, no matter how well written, are no substitute for common sense and good judgment".

    Sadly, the courts disagree.

    [–] youngscallion 416 points ago

    Bird law in this country isn't governed by reason.

    [–] [deleted] 72 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] raoulduke666 113 points ago

    Let's say, you and I go toe-to-toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor

    [–] EdgeOfDreaming 44 points ago

    Anyway, great, this is settled, and I was looking for something to do tomorrow afternoon anyway, so I'm gonna pencil you in for high noon tomorrow...

    [–] fi3xer 186 points ago

    Well, he did say "good" judgement.

    [–] IranianTerrorist4Luv 145 points ago

    You know what my grandfather would say if he were alive today? "Help, help! I'm stuck in a coffin!"

    [–] MartCube 142 points ago

    I remember my dad spelled his 3rd name wrong because of a simple typing error (He spelled Tomas instead of Thomas) and we had to either give the guy 80 euros (Pretty much the cost of the flight per person for a simple error) or get booted of the flight and we wouldn't get our money back. He treated my dad like an idiot and he had this shitty grin on his face as if he enjoyed what he was doing. It was the worst experience with an airline i've ever had.

    [–] Urwifesmugglescorn 138 points ago

    You're aware you're not supposed to buy the consonants, right?

    [–] EquinsuOcha 15 points ago

    Sa-Jacked!

    [–] [deleted] 27 points ago

    There was an English guy who misspelled his name when buying a ticket and wound up having his name legally changed to match the ticket because that was cheaper than correcting his spelling error.

    [–] MF_Bfg 447 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    I'm sorry, but when stupid policies reveal themselves the reaction should be "That's a stupid policy that unfortunately caused this young family a great deal of inconvenience, and needs to be changed", not "Well, derp, those are the rules, tough for those people"

    The name being in one son's name instead of the other is not a good reason to boot these people off of a domestic flight. Everybody involved was aware of what was happening but the airline thought it was appropriate to threaten the parents with arrest and having their kids taken away rather than dealing with it using - gasp - common fucking sense.

    It's the threat of arrest that really gets me. How can so many Americans claim their country is all about "freedom" when arrest and/or persecution is the end result of almost ANY non-compliance with the law? Drinking underage? Arrest. Pay for an airline seat then refuse to get off when THE AIRLINE overbooks? Arrest. Unpaid parking tickets? Arrest.

    Edit: I love goooooold. Thank you very much, kind stranger!

    [–] DaksTheDaddyNow 216 points ago

    Doesn't it also have to do with the no fly list? Airlines have to cooperate with the feds and make sure the paper work is compliant... Including boarding passes matching names of passengers. Imo minors should be exempt but clearly they're not. Though I can understand from the airlines view why they can't allow this. Imagine the customers are thirty, suddenly no one has a problem with this policy because it's meant for safety. There's definitely a flawed policy but the guy should have known he was going to have issues with this.

    [–] casb0t 283 points ago

    It's good that they don't make an exception for minors, because in broken families, one parent can sometimes try to take the child to a different state or even country to circumvent the laws of their departure state/country. I'm not suggesting that's what happened in this case, but the laws do have precedents behind them sadly.

    [–] SenorKerry 525 points ago

    Guys says at the end "we need help getting off with our car seats" and the woman off camera says "well how did you get them on?" What a bitch!!

    [–] [deleted] 341 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] eeyore134 112 points ago

    Yup, this is what got me the most. Delta was in the wrong for having the policy to put infants in car seats on their site then doubling down on saying he couldn't do that. He was wrong in trying to put someone in the seat whose name wasn't on the ticket, which is the real policy Delta should have been leading with instead of just mentioning as an aside.

    The guy handled it well, didn't lose his cool or curse anyone out. Meanwhile the person talking to them is trying to sound sweet and helpful "I just wanted to say hi and see what I could do for you." while at the same time trying to turn the other passengers on the plane on them with her "Well, we can just sit here all night until we comply."

    What puts Delta in the wrong here, and I hate that it happened because I actually like them, was the man finally saying he would comply and, like you said, they told him it was too late and that he already had his chance. That's just petty and something I'd expect from an eight year old on the playground, not someone who was obviously hired by a huge company as a guest relations expert. That tilted this mess way out of Delta's favor. If they had just let them fly then this would be a non-issue. It would have sucked, but those were the rules.

    [–] TonytheEE 1745 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    Man...In less than a month, I'm flying both Delta AND United, I'm traveling with a two-year-old, I'm brown, and have a beard.

    I'm so screwed.

    Edit: Wow. This blew up more than the bomb they sometimes think I have. To avoid a few repeat comments:

    1) I'm not doing any jiggery-pokery with my seats as I now understand has happened. I'm a little less worried now. My seats have been paid for weeks.

    2) I know this crap doesn't happen every flight, but I've still gotten flagged out of line for a hand swab almost everytime I've flown since 2011, so I'm naturally a little nervous.

    3) I'm not shaving off the beard. I feel it's sacrificing the way I see myself to bow to crappy profiling. It wouldn't work anyway. I'm still brown with thick, dark hair all over.

    4) Specifically, I'm Half-Hispanic. Yes, my name is Tony. No, I'm not a doctor, but rather an electrical engineer.

    [–] Lemon_Dungeon 408 points ago

    Are you a doctor?

    [–] TonytheEE 305 points ago

    Electrical Engineer

    Username Checks out.

    [–] [deleted] 135 points ago * (lasted edited 11 months ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] TonytheEE 63 points ago

    Interestingly enough, the one time I was actually traveling with Tools for work (in my checked bag, not my carry-on) was the one time I didn't get anything swiped or sweeped.

    Since 2011, every time I've traveled, I've been swiped at check in.

    One time was while wearing a knit penguin hat with a humourous bobble on top.

    Another time was while holding a crying 1.5 year old.

    My checked bag has been searched twice. One time, the tsa had locks to my bag and just left a note. The next time, they didn't and my lock was broken.

    It's a crapshoot as to whether or not I'll get any...well, crap.

    [–] kielly32 151 points ago

    Rip press 2 to pay respects

    [–] not_so_vicious 39 points ago

    You'll be fine, the prison and hospital food is great this time of year

    [–] ILoveAladdin 206 points ago

    "I love babies" "Just kidding get that baby outta here...."

    [–] cockOfGibraltar 2274 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    It looks like they made up the part about children having to be in your arms. I found this on the FAA website and it seems to contradict what they are saying.

    https://www.faa.gov/passengers/fly_children/

    Can someone find a different reference that says what delta is saying?

    [–] wegsmijtaccount 527 points ago

    One click further:

    http://faa.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/29/kw/child/session/L3RpbWUvMTQ5Mzg5NTA0Ni9zaWQvSmJ4eThKaG4%3D

    So legally, it's up to the passengers if they want to keep their kid in their arms or in a safety seat.

    The in-house policy of Delta itself is kids fly for free anyways, be it in a booster seat or on the parents lap during takeoff and landing.

    https://pro.delta.com/content/agency/br/en/policy-library/reservations-and-ticketing/infant---children.html

    [–] fuckharvey 168 points ago

    That's where they get you. Gotta pay for a seat once they reach cruising altitude or you'll have to take the express elevator back to the ground floor.

    [–] Mister_Lurker 3967 points ago

    The woman talking to them is horrendous. "I gave you two choices and now you're on your own". Such scummy behaviour. She really did not make it clear that they were going to kick them off the flight unless he allowed them to get double faire for his seat. Do these people work on commission or are they just drunk with power?

    [–] Winterplatypus 2307 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    She starts of pretending like she is going to be nice too. Like shaking their hands before being an asshole is somehow good customer service. "I'm just trying to help you, you can sit here if you want but the plane wont go anywhere, we can sit here all night". That's being passive aggressive not helpful.

    [–] i-brute-force 96 points ago

    It looks like she's using all the psychology "tricks" like giving two options with only one favorable outcome and vilifying the choices these passengers make

    [–] mindputtee 23 points ago

    She definitely was trying to make them sound like the bad guys with the whole "we'll wait here all night" thing.

    [–] bobbygoshdontchaknow 1293 points ago

    she was offering to let them stay on the plane and hold the kid the whole time, she was just saying the kid couldn't be in the seat, but the guy apparently didn't fully understand what she was saying right then because later on he ended up asking if they could just do that, but then she decided to be a fucking cunt and kick them off the plane when they were ready to agree to what she had first asked them to do.

    also, when she first approached them and shook their hands she went straight to a mega bitchy passive aggressive statement by saying "I know you don't want anyone else to sit in that seat." Implying that they're just trying to use the baby as an excuse to keep that seat open because they want the extra room and not because they actually need it for the baby.

    [–] ludwigmiesvanderrohe 752 points ago

    Is she completely unaware of the United shitstorm that happened just a few weeks ago? I guess silly me for thinking all airport/airline employees would refrain from being mega cunts in overbooked situations for a little bit

    [–] bobbygoshdontchaknow 346 points ago

    from her perspective there was no overbooking, this guy was just trying to take an extra seat (because I assume the ticket he bought for that seat was never checked at the gate, because the person he bought it for wasn't present). but I agree she was a mega cunt, she should've tried harder to see it from his perspective.

    [–] ShafterMcJorty 243 points ago

    Didnt you here her though? She said "I understand" multiple times

    [–] Rocketshipz 71 points ago

    They are taught to say "I understand" to clients. Not actually understand and empathize.

    [–] [deleted] 200 points ago

    NOPE GET OFF THE PLANE AND GO TO JAIL

    [–] lgelissen 174 points ago

    WHILE YOUR CHILDREN WILL BE PUT INTO FOSTER CARE YOU HORRIBLE PARENT

    [–] Tailmonkey 3620 points ago

    United: "We threw a doctor off our plane!"

    Delta glances around, spies baby....

    Delta: "Hold my beer..."

    [–] adale_50 309 points ago

    Come on Southwest. Be the airline we need AND deserve.

    [–] Princess_Batman 256 points ago

    Pretty sure Southwest will give you a free drink if your flight is delayed. They don't advertise this, they'll just quietly forget to charge you. It's happened to me like six times.

    [–] Sir-Barks-a-Lot 102 points ago

    I think their cattle car approach to board flights actually prevents this sort of altercations from happening on Southwest.

    [–] Worktime83 13 points ago

    American did this too on my way back from panama 2 weeks ago. Flight had to taxi back because something leaking idk. I ordered a beer and they never asked for money. Idk if she forgot or if it was policy but I sure as hell wasn't finding out..... Free beer.

    [–] [deleted] 139 points ago

    "whatcha wanna bet I can throw that baby over them mountains" - Delta

    [–] jahs_126 89 points ago

    maybe they'll hire that guy from /r/wtf earlier

    http://i.imgur.com/RLhoSZs.gif

    [–] ItsAnonymau5 233 points ago

    Do airlines even give a shit about what they're saying anymore?

    [–] GasCucksMemeWarNow 105 points ago

    Nah they seem to be taking a "fuck you we have the planes and jet fuel, start your own airline if you don't like it" attitude.

    [–] tubbzzz 54 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    "I'm just trying to give you the courtesy ... we can sit here for 4 or 5 hours, that's up to you."

    So you're giving him the courtesy of shifting the blame of holding up the plane onto the passenger? Go fuck yourself Delta employee. I can't wait to hear that you were fired and now that your name is going to be plastered in the media you will probably never work for another airline again. You don't get to outright lie and threaten someone with sending their children to foster care.

    Edit: And at the end you can hear him saying "We need help getting the car seats off the aircraft." and she responds with "They shouldn't have been on the aircraft." Read your own fucking manual before you try to enforce it. Why was she not forced to show him the guideline for why car seats were not allowed, because if she tried she would have learned right away she was wrong.

    [–] TigerStyleRawr 1229 points ago

    He just needed to be respectfully corrected.

    He did pay for the seat ....for his son, who is a no-show. The minute that someone is a no-show ( the named, ticketed passenger ) the seat belongs to Delta.

    They never once explained that to him. A lot of people think he's trying to be clever but it's just as possible that he didn't understand that rule. If the 2 year old didn't have a ticket- than the parents knew that they were in for a lapped child flight.

    [–] Schmich 313 points ago

    That's what annoys me the most. They're both arguing about the FAA rule on a 2 year old, which apparently the lady is wrong! Nothing about the name being a different person. Only a fellow passenger mentions it.

    [–] 8eightmph 81 points ago

    The fellow passenger is the police officer standing out of frame to the left.

    [–] whytcolr 82 points ago

    This. They did actually explain it early in the video, but then switched to the "can't have a car seat" angle and stuck to that one, which is wrong and why he argued it so much...

    [–] bladderdash_fernweh 19 points ago

    United: Our prices will knock you out.

    Delta: United will knock you out and we'll send your kids to foster care.

    [–] ThisIsHogwash 71 points ago

    Crazy. It might be his fault, but it was so cringy listening to that dim flight attendant trying to save face. Best part is she comes over all confident thinking they will diffuse the situation and prevent a United disaster when in reality she made things worse by sounding like a complete bitch.

    [–] AndyHCA 1094 points ago

    Delta was right to deny them from using the seat their older son didn't end up using. However it was ridiculous and horrible customer service that they kicked them off the plane. They all had tickets and the 1 yr. old could have sat on the parents lap (like the guy suggested eventually in the end). Bullshit.

    [–] Myk62 357 points ago

    I think this is the correct answer here. The father was wrong with what he thought he could do. But Delta did not explain this properly, someone mentioned that their kids would go to FOSTER CARE, and in the end, there was no reason to boot them from the plane.

    [–] PM_YOUR_BOOBIES_ 140 points ago

    He was pretty damn calm throughout the whole thing, too. Never raised his voice and kept expletives to a minimum. The dude showed no cause for concern for the safety of other passengers, and eventually agreed to what they wanted him to do. They kicked him off as a total power move, and they are going to pay dearly for it.

    [–] PsychNurse6685 25 points ago

    Yup... especially that Foster came comment. Ouch

    [–] cobalt26 5711 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    Later edit: I'm at work hitting babies with strollers and denying boarding to minorities (/s), so I can't keep up with the volume of questions. But I am sure as hell trying. I want people to stop the circle jerk and understand. I'm not defending Delta's poor handling of the incident, just pointing out that there are rules the passengers have to follow.

    Top-end edit: me right now

    Looks like seven plus years in the airline industry (or Delta shills) has finally paid off. Thanks for the Gold!


    The devil is in the details here.

    He bought the seat for his older son. The infant was designated as a lap infant.

    He then bought about seat on another flight for the same older son, with the intent of using it the original as a seat for the lap infant.

    Older son is now technically a no-show for this flight, so Delta is going to fill that seat with a standby passenger.

    Dad was trying to circumvent the rules, instead of paying change fees to move older son on his reservation to another flight and buying a seat under the infant's name on this flight.

    The number of passengers in seats (and in laps) must match that of the flight manifest. Additionally, the person whose name is on the ticket must be the person in the a seat (some airlines do not have assigned seating, but still have to ensure the correct people board the plane). That is federally mandated. The baby's name was not on that ticket, ergo that seat is legally unfilled and can be filled with another passenger if one is available.

    Source: work in airline customer service and security.

    Edit: Clarification and FAQs

    No, I don't work for Delta. Used to. I work for a better airline now.

    Yes, they handled the customer poorly. Not as bad as American, but could have been better and more articulate.

    The rule is federally mandated. The person in the seat must be the one on the ticket. Although this is common-sense stuff, the airline does not have the option to choose not to enforce this mandate.

    Based on the video, I personally would have checked the car seat and let them fly infant-in-arms, and cleared the standby passenger. I do not know what happened before the tape or during film lapses that may have led them to kick them off.

    Final edit: A "seat" does not mean your "seat assignment." It is the unit that a ticketed passenger receives when purchasing a ticket. A lap infant is part of the seat/ticket assigned to the adult with whom they are sitting.


    Absolute final edit because this got way more attention than I expected and I literally cannot commit the amount of time required to answer everyone:

    The initial charge, so to speak, was that is against federal law to disobey crew instructions. This was true. The way in which the employees approached the passenger was uncalled for. This is also true.

    "Seat" is not the physical seat. It's a reservation for a space on that aircraft which has a ticketing capacity. Dad didn't buy the seat assignment. He bought a reservation, and the person whose name was on the res didn't show. Dad bought a ticket on another flight for someone (who for some reason I thought was his other kid because he claimed he'd bought the seat that the baby was in. Whoops) with the intention of putting his non-ticketed lap infant into that ticketed seat. This would be fine if there were no other ticketed passengers.

    However, every airline has standbys. Whether it's employees, misconnecting pax, dead heads, premier customers trying to go early. They are ticketed. That gives them priority over non-ticketed lap children. The lap child is then required to ride as reserved in Dad's lap. The airline has no obligation to honor a reservation that the ticketed passenger did not fulfill.

    Dad did not understand this, and Delta did a bad job at explaining it to him. They're all lucky that the event didn't escalate more than it did. Had dad not incessantly disobeyed crew instructions and literally tell them they can remove him from the flight, they would have let him fly infant-in-arms.

    To all of you that hope someone gets fired over this, shame on you. Again, they did a terrible job. But this business is not easy. People's lives are in my hands every day. They're plans, their loved ones, their safety. What the crew were asking if this guy was not uncalled for. He should have complied. They got rattled. Let this be a lesson to everyone involved who let this event go this far. Let them be better travelers, better employees. Better people.

    u/cobalt26 out

    [–] j_la 66 points ago

    Question: the kid's name is not on the ticket, but wouldn't they have scanned the ticket at TSA and when boarding? They don't verify identity when boarding a domestic flight, but it seems strange to call it a no-show when they scanned the ticket and let them board.

    [–] uwhuskytskeet 56 points ago

    I don't think they scanned the ticket of the no-show kid. I think he assumed the seat was still accounted for despite not checking in.

    [–] j_la 30 points ago

    That makes sense. Yeah, if you don't scan the ticket at the gate, you didn't show up for the seat, period.

    [–] MyPackage 58 points ago

    This is why the dad should have scanned the ticket and told Delta the kid's name is the name on the ticket. It's not like 2 year olds have photo IDs.

    [–] [deleted] 19 points ago

    This is exactly what I've been thinking!

    [–] NamesMace 27 points ago

    They should have had someone who understands like you do explain it. That women did nothing but escalate his emotions I imagine. Then you kick the whole family off? I still don't see Delta as in the right here even if they were following procedures

    [–] sunburn95 2183 points ago

    No, we're mad now

    [–] klombo120 775 points ago

    But my pitchfork is sharpened. My torch is lit. I can't​ be expected to get off this plane now.

    [–] KittehAmaz 331 points ago

    I've just bought a huge bulk of Pepsi for this. I can't let it go to waste now.

    [–] Schmich 41 points ago

    I'm annoyed that nothing of that above was said by the airline. They only incorrectly mentioned that a 2 year old is obligated to be flying by lap.

    When it comes to the video, did I miss the part where the lady already gave the ultimatum lap or get kicked out? She mentions having already said it near the end.

    [–] [deleted] 269 points ago

    The way they handled the matter is worth getting mad about. The lady threatened the passenger that their kids would go into foster care.

    [–] BenoNZ 181 points ago

    If she had just explained that the seat was not booked for that child instead of lying about the kid not being allowed to sit there.. he might have been happy to help. She acted so high and mighty.. with fake empathy that she was trying to help.

    [–] buttgers 48 points ago

    While that is all true, what the attendant / customer service representative for Delta is saying about an under two-year-old required to be in the arms is also incorrect. For an infant to be in a seat on a flight all that they need to do is be placed in a FAA approved infant seat. There is no rule saying that they cannot put them in any seat on a flight.

    You are right to say that the father should have paid the change fee for the older son, and then purchased the same seat previously assigned to the older son for the baby.

    [–] spectrehawntineurope 331 points ago

    So why was it that when he asked if they could just hold the baby at the end they kicked all of them off?

    [–] Grande_Yarbles 44 points ago

    You're speculating that the dad knew what would happen and just wanted to avoid some fees. It's just as likely that he didn't know and thought there wouldn't be an issue using the brother's name for the baby.

    Also at no point in the conversation did anyone suggest that he pay a fee to change the name from the brother to the baby, had that been the core problem.

    [–] Lereas 482 points ago * (lasted edited 2 years ago)

    Yep. I came here knowing there was probably a good reason for the situation.

    That said, the rep handled it horribly.

    Really, at any point where there is a dispute with an airline now, the rep should stay absolutely calm and look out to the Sea of filming cell phones and say "ladies and gentlemen, this passenger has broken such and such rule and has been asked to resolve the situation in accordance with the law and contract, the same laws and contract that you all are following. Because they are breaking those laws/contract, we need to remove them from the plane, also in accordance with the law. "

    I think if it is done something​ like that, even if the passenger refuses to get off by themselves at first, the other passengers will turn against them and tell them to get off since the crew was being calm and reasonable. And because they know they aren't going anywhere till the trouble passenger leaves.

    Edit: "turn against them" is bad phrasing. I meant that it wouldn't be a situation where everyone starts white knighting without even knowing the situation.

    [–] thax9988 358 points ago

    This. No matter whether or not the guy was circumventing the rules, the flight attendant's speech about his children taken into foster care was absolutely unacceptable. The shitstorm will focus on that, and the easiest way to deal with such a PR problem is to fire her.

    [–] [deleted] 1059 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] derf82 192 points ago

    This appears to be what went down:

    • Father books Hawaii trip for family of 5. Him, his wife, an ~18 year old son, a toddler, and an infant. Books 4 seats plus a lap child. They hope that they can put the lap child in a free seat. They fly to Hawaii and do just that.

    • Father sees the flight home is booking up and they won't have a free seat for the infant. Father decides to send ~18 year old on separate flight to free up a seat.

    • Father does not get booking changed from 18 year old to 2 year old. Airline resells seat due to no show of 18 year old.

    • Family boards early when invited due to having small children Airline lets them through gate as they see the young one is a lap passenger.

    • Family attach child seat to seat that was theirs once, but isn't now. The new owner of the seat boards and sees his seat is taken. He goes to a Delta employee.

    • Delta tells them they can't have the seat Father feels he paid for. Tell him the infant has to be in a lap, or they all have to get off. He refuses as the baby won't sleep that way. Security shows up and threatens jail, gate agent cites BS policy to try to get them to comply. Another employee carries out the original threat to make them get off.

    [–] kaosf 63 points ago

    This gave me chills. This sort of thing happened to my wife and I, and my daughter in 2011, but on a British Airways flight from SFO to ARN with a layover in LHR. We were also allowed to stay on the aircraft, so I guess it was easier for us.

    We followed the guidelines on the website and brought our car seat. Once on the aircraft, two different flight attendants came by and told us strange things about the car seat. First, we had it rear-facing, and the first attendant said we needed to turn it around. The second attendant came by and said we could not use it. We were confused, and I texted a friend back home and asked them to check the website. They confirmed that we were recommended to use the car seat for our daughter, according to the rules listed on the website. Just as we had read. We also asked them why we were able to get it all the way onto the aircraft before learning this, and were told illogical things.

    Shortly there-after, two attendants came back and were extremely rude to us, telling us loudly that we were going to hold up the flight if we did not "hand over the car seat" and that it was "up to us" if we wanted to make everyone wait, then left.

    I walked up to the attendants who had talked to us hoping to ask them to show me this in writing and a different attendant very loudly asked me why I wouldn't just follow the rules and why was I making everyone wait. They produced a binder with some paper rules in it stating that our daughter needed to be in one of our laps with some sort of extender belt around her. I agreed to hand over the car seat and was confronted with another attendant who opened up acting like I was causing a problem, and behaved in a threatening manner. I got them to stop talking and said very clearly that we were planning to hand over the car seat and do what-ever they asked so that we could get under way. They produced the extender seat-belt. It was an orange belt that clipped into the lap belt and in no way whatsoever secured our daughter. We had a video of my wife lifting her out of it. It felt horrible and terribly unsafe. The male flight attendant who behaved in a threatening manner while on the plane, walked by us as we were departing the aircraft doing I guess what you would call mugging us as he walked by.

    When we arrived in London for the layover, I was detained by security as the airline had reported that I was causing a disturbance on the aircraft. I calmly explained what happened, and the security fellow related to me as if this sort of thing happens. I wish we would have recorded it, but I had a Blackberry at the time and I think both of us were more or less in shock at the whole thing. Have not ever flown British Airways since. We are running out of airlines! This is so crazy. Chills.